NZ A4-K Skyhawks will return to the skies

[willytheekid]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8314694/Skyhawks-to-taste-formation-flight-once-again

Eight A-4K Skyhawks that sat in plastic cocoons at Woodbourne since 2001 will next month return to the air in formation over Florida in the United States.

Draken International, which provides military training, last year picked up the Skyhawks for $7.9 million and has found the planes are in superb condition. They've got years of life left in their airframes and the radar and electronics aboard are among the best in the world.

Chief executive Jared Isaacman was downplaying the idea he got the better side of the deal.

"I don't think I would use the word bargain to describe the purchase of these aircraft," he said. "The New Zealand A-4K Skyhawks are the finest aircraft of their type ever built." But they had "little military value left", he said.

Draken had to pay the shipping and create engine maintenance contracts with Safe Air and Fieldair in New Zealand.


...The guy just bought one of the best "old school" multi fighters ever made...and hands down...the best A4's to have ever flown!:niceone:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38G9ZIBZzkk

Kia kaha NZ...the Hawks live to fly another day



ps:...FUCK YOU HELEN CLARK!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Should still be flying here.

[BMWST?]

they gave a fantastic wee show at the castrol 6 hour or WSBK at manfeild one year

[HenryDorsetCase]

1960's tech. close air support perhaps but any jihadi with a Stinger can take one down. We should have picked up the F-16's we were offered.

[pzkpfw]

Amazing how we'd have saved money if we'd cleaned the poisons out of them and dumped them in the ocean. (Or recycled into Coke cans ...)

($35M to store, sell for $8M).

Hindsight.

[Macontour]

NIce thanks. A mate of mine years ago was in Kiwi Red. Way more brains than me. Oddly enough, he suffered from air sickness but not badly enough to stop him being a pilot. Used tolove the way they displayed at Air Shows and did the "sneaky" high speed low level pass from behind the crowd. That sudden high pitched tearing the sky apart sound as the jet screamed overhead or in front of the crowd was magic.

[Nova.]

Has anything replaced them yet?

[FJRider]

Has anything replaced them yet?

New Zealand's gone into stealth mode ...

[Nova.]

Must of gotten em off Iran then eh :lol:

[Zedder]

Cool Wtk, always good to see/hear them.

[Milts]

It was crazy to see how much the maintanence costs were while in storage vs the final sale costs.


1960's tech. close air support perhaps but any jihadi with a Stinger can take one down. We should have picked up the F-16's we were offered.

I would completely agree, except then we would be politcally obligated to take part (to a much larger extent) in wars which may or may not concern us, and may or may not be ethically justifiable.

As much as I love the idea of a fully functional air force the truth is 1) we aren't about to need it for self defence 2) any large scale military action overseas is likely to involve close work with nations which DO have a strong air force and 3) extended military intervention overseas is more likely to make us a target.

I don't think a small isolated nation like NZ can justify the huge expense require to purchase and maintain a combat capable air force especially in the current economic climate. If we had huge national wealth, then.... F/A18s all the way.

[slowpoke]

We should have picked up the F-16's we were offered.

And what would you have us do with them? The odd air show? The amount we can afford is good for fuck all else.

[HenryDorsetCase]

And what would you have us do with them? The odd air show? The amount we can afford is good for fuck all else.

what do you do with all those motorbikes you have? any more than one and you're a collector and no more justification is required..... they'd be cool just to have.

[BMWST?]

NIce thanks. A mate of mine years ago was in Kiwi Red. Way more brains than me. Oddly enough, he suffered from air sickness but not badly enough to stop him being a pilot. Used tolove the way they displayed at Air Shows and did the "sneaky" high speed low level pass from behind the crowd. That sudden high pitched tearing the sky apart sound as the jet screamed overhead or in front of the crowd was magic.


i remember that one !

[Zedder]

what do you do with all those motorbikes you have? any more than one and you're a collector and no more justification is required..... they'd be cool just to have.

Or another option HDC is to just have the New Zealand Warbirds Association jets on standby. That covers both airshows and defence jobs and would be much cheaper...

[willytheekid]

1960's tech. close air support perhaps but any jihadi with a Stinger can take one down. We should have picked up the F-16's we were offered.

You underestimate this "1960's" aircraft mate


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLMM_jf6Lwc

...now take the "Stock" version shown above, add one of the best heads-up systems in the world, upgraded target acquisition and air avionics, nearly DOUBLE the thrust out put of that engine* and then add on over twice the weapons pay load...and you have the NZ A-4k SkyHawk:headbang:

*its why they had to strengthen the wings!...they kept cracking and nearly tearing off due to the extra speed and acceleration

...the proof of how great our wee planes where, can be seen sitting at The McDonald Douglas museum in the states....they bought a NZ Skyhawk...its one of there most prized piece's and is proudly displayed beside there "stock" version, just to highlight the amazing upgrade the kiwis did:msn-wink:

So be damn proud of these little jets mate...the NZ air-force took an already amazing all rounder, and turned it into one of the most aggressive, hard hitting wee planes to ever take to the sky's :yes:...they where known around the world for there deadly capabilities and excellence in nearly all roles.
And the pilots that flew them, got snapped up by fighter schools all around the world...because they where the some of the best high speed, low level attack and dog fight pilots on the planet!...all thanks to our little old A4's

Hence why I'm so happy these native birds will get to fly again....once again people around the world will get to see what kiwis can do with an outdated "1960's" aircraft

http://a4skyhawk.org/sites/a4skyhawk.org/files/images/imagecache/gallery-display/154908-a4k-08APR87-RNZAF-NZ6214-Pilots-who-flew-the-18-Skyhawk-formation-RNZAF-official.jpg
http://a4skyhawk.org/sites/a4skyhawk.org/files/images/imagecache/gallery-display/157908-A-4K-ddmmm75-NZ6205-75Sqn-Tasman-Ex-RNZAF.jpg

[Nova.]

learn something new every day :first:

[Swoop]

Thank you, NZ labour party.

A bigger bunch of lying, deceitful cun*s would be challenging to find.

[Maha]

. Used to love the way they displayed at Air Shows and did the "sneaky" high speed low level pass from behind the crowd. That sudden high pitched tearing the sky apart sound as the jet screamed overhead or in front of the crowd was magic.

As a kid growing up in Palmerston North, there was a mock bombing of the clock tower in the square one weekend (late 60's early 70's?)
The Skyhawks flew very low down Rangitikei st towards the clock tower and then banked away as a huge bomb like noise happened with coloured smoked..
Scary shit for most that were there at the time..everyone lining the streets, the jets flying what seemed like just above your head, would never get away with doing that today...:cool:

[Robert Taylor]

1960's tech. close air support perhaps but any jihadi with a Stinger can take one down. We should have picked up the F-16's we were offered.

EXACTLY, and that bitch we had as a Priminister for 9 years should burn in hell for enternity

[Smifffy]

Having a squadron of maritime strike aircraft was the rationale behind no longer requiring a 4 frigate navy when it came time to replace the Leanders with the Anzacs.

[FJRider]

As a kid growing up in Palmerston North, there was a mock bombing of the clock tower in the square one weekend (late 60's early 70's?)
The Skyhawks flew very low down Rangitikei st towards the clock tower and then banked away as a huge bomb like noise happened with coloured smoked..
Scary shit for most that were there at the time..everyone lining the streets, the jets flying what seemed like just above your head, would never get away with doing that today...:cool:

I've watched them use the real stuff up near Waiouru. I'd rather not be on the receiving end.

[Edbear]

I've watched them use the real stuff up near Waiouru. I'd rather not be on the receiving end.

I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of even a .22, personally... :(

[FJRider]

I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of even a .22, personally... :(

That about all M16's are. They can hurt.

[Edbear]

That about all M16's are. They can hurt.

I kinda have an aversion to pain and death, I try to avoid both wherever I can... :pinch:

[FJRider]

I kinda have an aversion to pain and death, I try to avoid both wherever I can... :pinch:

I got hit by an M16 once. If it was a bullet instead of the butt ... I might not be here today. And it did hurt.

[Edbear]

I got hit by an M16 once. If it was a bullet instead of the butt ... I might not be here today. And it did hurt.

Ouch! :(

10characters, mutter mutter...

[SPman]

Thank you, NZ labour party.

A bigger bunch of lying, deceitful cun*s would be challenging to find.
I wouldn't know about that - the current Nats have filled their shoes in that department, superbly...........................

[Edbear]

Hey I know! Let's all blame the Government! Any Government will do, but especially whichever one is currently in power. 'Cause as we all know, all Governments are bad and whenever in power they are especially bad. Doesn't seem to matter which... :rolleyes:

[FJRider]

Ouch! :(

10characters, mutter mutter...

He said it was an accident ... :yes:

I didn't believe him ... :rolleyes:













probably something I said ...

[Pussy]

Priminister

Prime Minister.

The Kahu upgrades unfortunately made the Scooters a bit nose heavy.
Not able to pull as many G as original... otherwise the nose section would fall off!
The A4K is still, however, a good aeroplane for us. Too bad that won't happen again.

[jasonu]

A Vampire flew above me today in Wanganui. Sounded great!

[Hinny]

1960's tech. close air support perhaps but any jihadi with a Stinger can take one down. We should have picked up the F-16's we were offered.

You do realise you are advocating buying stolen property.
Pick up all your best deals down at the pub I suppose.

[awa355]

Has anything replaced them yet?


The gummermint is working on plans as we read this. . 283540

[avgas]

Having a squadron of maritime strike aircraft was the rationale behind no longer requiring a 4 frigate navy when it came time to replace the Leanders with the Anzacs.
I still suspect there was lots of budget behind that. Similar crap happened on the ground.

They got a full squad of these

http://eagle.orgfree.com/ph_armstrong/AFV/LAV/Kodiak.jpg

instead of a few of them and a few of these

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/lav-ad-P97056a.jpg

Even though we live in a place surrounded by water and they usually shoot missiles and planes at countries now.......and we have no defensive air force.

Are they expecting the C-wiz to save the whole country?

[Robert Taylor]

Of course the Army has had way too much sway in what has gone on over the last 14 years or so and the jokes on them with the purchase of those lemons called LAVs.
That we dont have a fully equipped Air Force and that we effectively freeload to a huge degree off the Australians for regional security is a national disgrace.
The argument is that we cannot afford it. Well, if we stopped handing out hundreds perhaps thousands of million of dollars to keep topping up ( on many assumptive pretences )the blame culture in perpetuity we'd be a lot better off as ONE nation rather than an apartheid based one. If the Government ( any Government ) strongly based the money supply not on speculation but on people that will actually do something productive for the export economy ( and carry people along with them ) that would be largely positive. As would correcting one of Governments biggest failures, not collecting gst on EVERYTHING that crosses the border, the gst that is not being collected ( and remember this is not creating a new tax ) must be huge. Sustainable mining and oil, lets go for it hammer and tong and earn some real revenue. It always amuses me with the Greens, they want all the social services in the world but want to stop all the means of funding same
In a future event of having to defend our national sovereignty ( and who will stand up and say 100% that it will never ever happen in an increasingly unstable world ) what good are ground forces without overhead air cover ? We should always show that we have the intent to defend ourselves rather than looking as resigned weaklings. As a sea locked nation with huge territory it makes perfect sense that our major focus should be the senior service ( Navy ) and a major upscaling of Air Force capability in both surveillance and strike capability. Moreover the infrastructure should always be there in place, something that Helen Clark deliberately and callously removed to satsify her shonky pacifist CV for her long term endeavours to cosy up to her communist mates in the UN.
To that end I hope that ugly bitch burns in hell in perpetuity. And I for one am going that way when I die to be a stoker to make sure of that.

[nadroj]

We have already been invaded by immigrants, and our biggest threat to national security will be via the internet!

[Robert Taylor]

We have already been invaded by immigrants, and our biggest threat to national security will be via the internet!

Immigrants that work, contribute something useful to society and will totally assimiliate themselves into the Kiwi lifestyle I have no problem with.
Yes you are bang on about the internet and its sad that many cannot see the damage it is in many ways doing
But hey this thread is about A4s and its heartening to know that I am not alone in thinking that we should still have a credible Air Force

[jonbuoy]

Immigrants that work, contribute something useful to society and will totally assimiliate themselves into the Kiwi lifestyle I have no problem with.
Yes you are bang on about the internet and its sad that many cannot see the damage it is in many ways doing
But hey this thread is about A4s and its heartening to know that I am not alone in thinking that we should still have a credible Air Force

US seems to be using drones for air strikes these days anyway. No need for large carriers or errors from human pilots.

[Bonez]

US seems to be using drones for air strikes these days anyway. No need for large carriers or errors from human pilots.Who do think is controlling those suckers. Rudolf the reindeer?

[jonbuoy]

Computers mostly and not long before completely -I expect the only human input will be an authorise command.

[R6_kid]

For anyone who missed it, the (T)A-4k's and Macchis that were sold to the US are back in the air.

I had a look at the company that owns them, they have more fighter aircraft than a lot of air forces in the world :-S

http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1365450771/126/8526126.jpg

[Hinny]

Of course the Army has had way too much sway in what has gone on over the last 14 years or so and the jokes on them with the purchase of those lemons called LAVs.
That we dont have a fully equipped Air Force and that we effectively freeload to a huge degree off the Australians for regional security is a national disgrace.
The argument is that we cannot afford it. Well, if we stopped handing out hundreds perhaps thousands of million of dollars to keep topping up ( on many assumptive pretences )the blame culture in perpetuity we'd be a lot better off as ONE nation rather than an apartheid based one. If the Government ( any Government ) strongly based the money supply not on speculation but on people that will actually do something productive for the export economy ( and carry people along with them ) that would be largely positive. As would correcting one of Governments biggest failures, not collecting gst on EVERYTHING that crosses the border, the gst that is not being collected ( and remember this is not creating a new tax ) must be huge. Sustainable mining and oil, lets go for it hammer and tong and earn some real revenue. It always amuses me with the Greens, they want all the social services in the world but want to stop all the means of funding same
In a future event of having to defend our national sovereignty ( and who will stand up and say 100% that it will never ever happen in an increasingly unstable world ) what good are ground forces without overhead air cover ? We should always show that we have the intent to defend ourselves rather than looking as resigned weaklings. As a sea locked nation with huge territory it makes perfect sense that our major focus should be the senior service ( Navy ) and a major upscaling of Air Force capability in both surveillance and strike capability. Moreover the infrastructure should always be there in place, something that Helen Clark deliberately and callously removed to satsify her shonky pacifist CV for her long term endeavours to cosy up to her communist mates in the UN.
To that end I hope that ugly bitch burns in hell in perpetuity. And I for one am going that way when I die to be a stoker to make sure of that.

And who is going to identify whom we should use these forces against?

As Nadroj says 'we have been invaded'.

[gunnyrob]

I wonder why the t-bird has deployed its' RAT?

[Bonez]

For anyone who missed it, the (T)A-4k's and Macchis that were sold to the US are back in the air.

ONE TA4K is flying-NZ6252 the next up will be a "model". Probably just testing the various systems out Rob. It was "52s" first flight back in the air.

[awa355]

Of course the Army has had way too much sway in what has gone on over the last 14 years or so and the jokes on them with the purchase of those lemons called LAVs.
That we dont have a fully equipped Air Force and that we effectively freeload to a huge degree off the Australians for regional security is a national disgrace.
The argument is that we cannot afford it. Well, if we stopped handing out hundreds perhaps thousands of million of dollars to keep topping up ( on many assumptive pretences )the blame culture in perpetuity we'd be a lot better off as ONE nation rather than an apartheid based one. If the Government ( any Government ) strongly based the money supply not on speculation but on people that will actually do something productive for the export economy ( and carry people along with them ) that would be largely positive. As would correcting one of Governments biggest failures, not collecting gst on EVERYTHING that crosses the border, the gst that is not being collected ( and remember this is not creating a new tax ) must be huge. Sustainable mining and oil, lets go for it hammer and tong and earn some real revenue. It always amuses me with the Greens, they want all the social services in the world but want to stop all the means of funding same
In a future event of having to defend our national sovereignty ( and who will stand up and say 100% that it will never ever happen in an increasingly unstable world ) what good are ground forces without overhead air cover ? We should always show that we have the intent to defend ourselves rather than looking as resigned weaklings. As a sea locked nation with huge territory it makes perfect sense that our major focus should be the senior service ( Navy ) and a major upscaling of Air Force capability in both surveillance and strike capability. Moreover the infrastructure should always be there in place, something that Helen Clark deliberately and callously removed to satsify her shonky pacifist CV for her long term endeavours to cosy up to her communist mates in the UN.
To that end I hope that ugly bitch burns in hell in perpetuity. And I for one am going that way when I die to be a stoker to make sure of that.

I have to agree with this post entirely. We have a country with a roading , power generating, food production, communications capability that is virtually defenceless. If the Indonesians ( Islamics) decide to have a decent go at Australia, what better staging post to hit the Aussie east coast, could they find than NZ?

Fifteen aircraft loaded with paratroopers, ( here in a few hours ), one or two submarines sitting in the Hauraki gulf, If Australia didn't intervene before they got here, this country would be stuffed. NZ could never have a defence system to hold off any determined aggressor on our own, but at least we could show that we were prepared to do something.

[R6_kid]

I have to agree with this post entirely. We have a country with a roading , power generating, food production, communications capability that is virtually defenceless. If the Indonesians ( Islamics) decide to have a decent go at Australia, what better staging post to hit the Aussie east coast, could they find than NZ?

Fifteen aircraft loaded with paratroopers, ( here in a few hours ), one or two submarines sitting in the Hauraki gulf, If Australia didn't intervene before they got here, this country would be stuffed. NZ could never have a defence system to hold off any determined aggressor on our own, but at least we could show that we were prepared to do something.

Option A: fly straight through Australian airspace without permission and get fucked up.
Option B: fly to the pacific islands while avoiding Aus/NZ airspace, assuming they arrive without the country of destination showing any worry, they might get here.
Option C: fly direct to NZ while circumventing Austrlian airspace, they might make it here. You're talking over 7000km (double the range of the C-130 at full capacity) and thats in a straight line (i.e through Australian airspace). I can't be bothered doing the maths to find out what the actual route would be. Even with a complex system of tankers helping tankers helping tankers helping the transports it's a very long way to fly a fully loaded C-130. Just look at how much effort it took to deploy a pair of Vulcans to the Falklands and you'll see what I mean.

While we are defenceless, we're also quite remote. It's not very often these things happen without escalation, and even then - once they have their people on the ground, the NZ army would be able to respond, and you can reasonably fly F-18's with tankers from the East coast of Aussie to NZ to strike the indonesian ground forces here anyway.

[SPman]

Well, privately, we can put up 3 Strikemasters, a Hawker Hunter, assorted Vampires, Venoms, L39's, but the only one with activated guns is the P40 based at Ardmore - and that's ex Australian.........:lol:

[Hinny]

I have to agree with this post entirely. We have a country with a roading , power generating, food production, communications capability that is virtually defenceless. If the Indonesians ( Islamics) decide to have a decent go at Australia, what better staging post to hit the Aussie east coast, could they find than NZ?

Fifteen aircraft loaded with paratroopers, ( here in a few hours ), one or two submarines sitting in the Hauraki gulf, If Australia didn't intervene before they got here, this country would be stuffed. NZ could never have a defence system to hold off any determined aggressor on our own, but at least we could show that we were prepared to do something.

I think you will find that the invaders have almost exclusively come hare by commercial airlines.
Certainly is the easiest way.
Reality vs fantasy.

Joke about the '(Islamics)' - buying into the propaganda?

[Robert Taylor]

I think you will find that the invaders have almost exclusively come hare by commercial airlines.
Certainly is the easiest way.
Reality vs fantasy.

Joke about the '(Islamics)' - buying into the propaganda?

We were so close to being invaded in the 40s, who are you to say that invasion in such a way will never ever threaten us again ? But of course we are too busy paying out those who will forever have their hands out on the premise of historical grievances. In global terms natural resources that we have will be increasingly scarce in an ever more volatile world, and if we are not seen to have any intent to defend that then we are asking for trouble, in the longer term.

I say it again, that we freeload off the Australians for much of our regional security is a national disgrace.

[oneofsix]

We were so close to being invaded in the 40s, who are you to say that invasion in such a way will never ever threaten us again ? But of course we are too busy paying out those who will forever have their hands out on the premise of historical grievances. In global terms natural resources that we have will be increasingly scarce in an ever more volatile world, and if we are not seen to have any intent to defend that then we are asking for trouble, in the longer term.

I say it again, that we freeload off the Australians for much of our regional security is a national disgrace.

We will be safe, we are quietly selling off those resources to the internal corps that want them and lining up the next big thing for sale all ready, so there will no reason to go to invade to grab our resources and if a 3rd party decides to try then the big internationals will get their govts. to come and help. Of course we will be slaves to the big corps but what the hell that is happening anyhow but because it is not slavery in the American Negro sense no one realises it, lets call it surfs instead. :jerry:

[Swoop]

Now the airframes are in the US, can we call in an airstrike on helen clerke's office in the UN Headquaters building?

[oneofsix]

Now the airframes are in the US, can we call in an airstrike on helen clerke's office in the UN Headquaters building?

Wouldn't you be better off wit ha suicide mission using an amfo pack Cessna? You would stand a better chance getting through to deliver the attack and about as much chance of survival.

:corn:

[avgas]

Now the airframes are in the US, can we call in an airstrike on helen clerke's office in the UN Headquaters building?
I heard blackwater have nothing to do now. Haven't had a decent contract in weeks since the the last one cooked over.

[Hinny]

We were so close to being invaded in the 40s, who are you to say that invasion in such a way will never ever threaten us again ? But of course we are too busy paying out those who will forever have their hands out on the premise of historical grievances. In global terms natural resources that we have will be increasingly scarce in an ever more volatile world, and if we are not seen to have any intent to defend that then we are asking for trouble, in the longer term.

I say it again, that we freeload off the Australians for much of our regional security is a national disgrace.

And I say again we have been invaded.
There are plenty of suburbs in Ak. that you can visit and have an 'in another country' experience.
That this Govt and previous ones have encouraged this is a National disgrace. I believe NZ. is the only country in the world with Govt. funds being used to encourage people to emigrate to their country.
Our forbears fought to stop this sort of thing.
The invasion of countries etc. is not being waged in the old fashioned sense. It is done far more subtly.
The Rogernomics economic model left out one extremely important element. That being the reduction of our population.
Concentrate our productive focus on those things we have a worldwide comparative advantage in.
We have about 150,000 people involved with agriculture providing the majority of our export receipts.
The entire population of Ak would have a less favourable effect on the bottom line of our Balance of Payments than one dairy farmer.
Sell on a world market and buy on a world market. - Free Trade agreements are what this is about.
No point in going down the Bill Birch road to success by reducing our Labour costs to compete. Half the world earn $2 a day or less. Do we want to compete against that?
I have heard stories of people working for Immigration that complain the department has been taken over by immigrants and they are not following the rules.
That successive Ministers have been asleep at the wheel is the disgrace we need to address.
You don't do that by paying out tax dollars to a Defence dept. to buy Strike aircraft.
To provide the capabilties to defend our maritime economic zone is of course far more important. Fisheries are another major contributor to our financial well-being.
I experienced the rape of our fisheries by foreign fishermen - Japanese lonliners with their dories a few hundred metres from shore. I guess they could be regarded as invaders. The adoption of the 200 mile economic zone shut that down to a large extent.
I have experienced the rape of our seashore fauna by the new immigrants 'strip mining' the foreshore. -No wonder the Tangata Whenua want to dredge up historical documents to try and prevent this.
Are they the only ones not asleep?

[Robert Taylor]

And I say again we have been invaded.
There are plenty of suburbs in Ak. that you can visit and have an 'in another country' experience.
That this Govt and previous ones have encouraged this is a National disgrace. I believe NZ. is the only country in the world with Govt. funds being used to encourage people to emigrate to their country.
Our forbears fought to stop this sort of thing.
The invasion of countries etc. is not being waged in the old fashioned sense. It is done far more subtly.
The Rogernomics economic model left out one extremely important element. That being the reduction of our population.
Concentrate our productive focus on those things we have a worldwide comparative advantage in.
We have about 150,000 people involved with agriculture providing the majority of our export receipts.
The entire population of Ak would have a less favourable effect on the bottom line of our Balance of Payments than one dairy farmer.
Sell on a world market and buy on a world market. - Free Trade agreements are what this is about.
No point in going down the Bill Birch road to success by reducing our Labour costs to compete. Half the world earn $2 a day or less. Do we want to compete against that?
I have heard stories of people working for Immigration that complain the department has been taken over by immigrants and they are not following the rules.
That successive Ministers have been asleep at the wheel is the disgrace we need to address.
You don't do that by paying out tax dollars to a Defence dept. to buy Strike aircraft.
To provide the capabilties to defend our maritime economic zone is of course far more important. Fisheries are another major contributor to our financial well-being.
I experienced the rape of our fisheries by foreign fishermen - Japanese lonliners with their dories a few hundred metres from shore. I guess they could be regarded as invaders. The adoption of the 200 mile economic zone shut that down to a large extent.
I have experienced the rape of our seashore fauna by the new immigrants 'strip mining' the foreshore. -No wonder the Tangata Whenua want to dredge up historical documents to try and prevent this.
Are they the only ones not asleep?

In fairness I agree with much of what you have said, much more than what I disagree with. And the effort you have gone to is admirable in recollecting / analysing through the history, irrespective whether your own considered opinions are agreeable or otherwise.

[Hinny]

In fairness I agree with much of what you have said, much more than what I disagree with. And the effort you have gone to is admirable in recollecting / analysing through the history, irrespective whether your own considered opinions are agreeable or otherwise.

Thankyou for your generous comments.

My considered opinion is that the greatest threat we face in this country is from within.
I caught a glimpse of a billboard today with a picture of Nick Smith on it. Not a very flattering photo I might add.
It posed a question in large type 'Did we elect this man to run Auckland?'
Don't know who paid for it.
Despite his talents he has become rather scary IMHO. as have several others in the party.
I question whether these people are working for the best interests of New Zealander's or have they been seduced by Foreign Govts. and Corporations.
Conspiracy theories abound about these people and I fear for the heritage of our children.

[SPman]

But of course we are too busy paying out those who will forever have their hands out on the premise of historical grievances..
What - Finance companies and Banks!

[Tigadee]

I caught a glimpse of a billboard today with a picture of Nick Smith on it. Not a very flattering photo I might add.
It posed a question in large type 'Did we elect this man to run Auckland?'
Don't know who paid for it.

Not that old Lenny's any better...

[Robert Taylor]

What - Finance companies and Banks!

As well, yes. 100% agree. Aside from being almost totally defenceless ( Clarks disgraceful legacy ) its a real disgrace that we share the same lunacy as the rest of the developed world.....That being that the banks / financial institutions created a needless property boom that has pushed up property prices so much its now impossible for a very high percentage of our younger generations to get on the property ladder.
So while a lot of money has been made by some out of property its leaving a legacy of landlords and tenants with rentals indexed to property values.
The money supply should be for productive people doing something actually useful for the wider economy and employing everyday people doing fulfilling jobs, rather than money grabbing speculators.
Sorry this hasnt got much to do with A4s, well proven in Vietnam and the Falklands.

[oneofsix]

As well, yes. 100% agree. Aside from being almost totally defenceless ( Clarks disgraceful legacy ) its a real disgrace that we share the same lunacy as the rest of the developed world.....That being that the banks / financial institutions created a needless property boom that has pushed up property prices so much its now impossible for a very high percentage of our younger generations to get on the property ladder.
So while a lot of money has been made by some out of property its leaving a legacy of landlords and tenants with rentals indexed to property values.
The money supply should be for productive people doing something actually useful for the wider economy and employing everyday people doing fulfilling jobs, rather than money grabbing speculators.
Sorry this hasnt got much to do with A4s, well proven in Vietnam and the Falklands.

Not banks, they are merely instruments, try the Bilderberg Group

[imdying]

Skyhawks only made about 150 missions in the Falklands war, over 30 odd aircraft, so only 5 flights a piece. The Harriers numbered about 40 aircraft and flew about 1800 missiosn. One of those was well proven for sure. The Junta couldn't organise a fuck in a brothel, have a look at the A4s the yids were running.

[avgas]

I caught a glimpse of a billboard today with a picture of Nick Smith on it. Not a very flattering photo I might add.
It posed a question in large type 'Did we elect this man to run Auckland?'
Don't know who paid for it.
Has the Labour logo in the corner.

This one has the logo cut off - but you can tell by the colour
http://i2.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Labour-NickSmith.png

[avgas]

And I say again we have been invaded.
There are plenty of suburbs in Ak. that you can visit and have an 'in another country' experience.
That this Govt and previous ones have encouraged this is a National disgrace. I believe NZ. is the only country in the world with Govt. funds being used to encourage people to emigrate to their country.
Our forbears fought to stop this sort of thing.
The invasion of countries etc. is not being waged in the old fashioned sense. It is done far more subtly.
The Rogernomics economic model left out one extremely important element. That being the reduction of our population.
Concentrate our productive focus on those things we have a worldwide comparative advantage in.
We have about 150,000 people involved with agriculture providing the majority of our export receipts.
The entire population of Ak would have a less favourable effect on the bottom line of our Balance of Payments than one dairy farmer.
Sell on a world market and buy on a world market. - Free Trade agreements are what this is about.
No point in going down the Bill Birch road to success by reducing our Labour costs to compete. Half the world earn $2 a day or less. Do we want to compete against that?
I have heard stories of people working for Immigration that complain the department has been taken over by immigrants and they are not following the rules.
That successive Ministers have been asleep at the wheel is the disgrace we need to address.
You don't do that by paying out tax dollars to a Defence dept. to buy Strike aircraft.
To provide the capabilties to defend our maritime economic zone is of course far more important. Fisheries are another major contributor to our financial well-being.
I experienced the rape of our fisheries by foreign fishermen - Japanese lonliners with their dories a few hundred metres from shore. I guess they could be regarded as invaders. The adoption of the 200 mile economic zone shut that down to a large extent.
I have experienced the rape of our seashore fauna by the new immigrants 'strip mining' the foreshore. -No wonder the Tangata Whenua want to dredge up historical documents to try and prevent this.
Are they the only ones not asleep?
I think you have confused NZ with Texas.
Please now complain about the government taking your guns away from you.

Also I am confused, are the farmers more important or less important than the fishermen?

[lakedaemonian]

Skyhawks only made about 150 missions in the Falklands war, over 30 odd aircraft, so only 5 flights a piece. The Harriers numbered about 40 aircraft and flew about 1800 missiosn. One of those was well proven for sure. The Junta couldn't organise a fuck in a brothel, have a look at the A4s the yids were running.

A couple things about the Argies and their A4s:

They were working out to the limits of their range, even with aerial refueling.

Argie battle space persistence was extremely limited to the point of having to reduce performance for fuel economy to avoid having to ditch in the South Atlantic on the return flight.

They couldn't surge their A4 fleet into the battlespace because they only had 2 air tankers, which meant A4 missions ran 2-4 airframes total.

Their A4 fleet was in bad shape due to US embargo going back to the Dirty War a decade prior when the Argies were dumping drugged up student protestors out into the Atlantic from the back of their planes.

The Argies sunk HMS Coventry, HMS Ardent, HMS Antelope, RFA Sir Galahad, and RFA Sir Tristam with A4s.

The Argies also hit HMS Glasgow, HMS Antrim, HMS Broadsword, HMS Argonaut, RFA Sir Bedivere, and RFA Sir Lancelot with gravity bombs that all failed to explode.

Had the Argies sorted out their A4 gravity bomb fusing, partially/possibly due to extremely low altitude required to fly without getting successfully engaged by RN Task Force air defense(one A4 hit a Frigate's mast) it could have been a different ending to the story.

That's over half the RN Task Force combat vessels hit by A4s.

The Argies also ran a highly effective combat pilot selection/training program evidenced by the incredible results by the A4 operating at the extreme edge of it's range, with no precision/fire and forget weapon systems against one of the most capable navies in the world.

AND the Poms KNEW the Argies were coming.......with SAS conducting CTRs on Argie strike takeoffs and bursting it to Task Force Air Defense.

The Poms did a bloody good job getting the Falklands back.......that was no joke reclaiming them, but the Poms also got incredibly lucky.....A4 gravity bomb fusing is probably the one area where the Poms were luckiest.

[lakedaemonian]

If people want to talk about national vulnerability, it might be worth reading up on Huawei.

In our region, both Australia and the Philippines have prevented Chinese network infrastructure company Huawei to participate in national telecommunications infrastructure projects.

New Zealand is going to pretty much be based on Huawei.

If anyone believes that a Chinese made NZ national telecommunications infrastructure build out doesn't realistically present a grave national security concern for NZ probably believes in the positive power of rainbows and unicorns.

[Swoop]

Had the Argies sorted out their A4 gravity bomb fusing...
They did. Why? The cock-faggots of the media blabbing it over the airwaves.


... NZ probably believes in the positive power of rainbows and unicorns.
Those supporting the Lunatic Fringe party (GREENS) would be first in line.

[avgas]

This thread is going off topic.

Why doesn't NZ have some A-10's - we need an aircraft that takes some flack, easy to maintain and of course "cheap".
A-10 is an ugly duckling - but a proven one.

[huff3r]

This thread is going off topic.

Why doesn't NZ have some A-10's - we need an aircraft that takes some flack, easy to maintain and of course "cheap".
A-10 is an ugly duckling - but a proven one.

We could always build our own version using the PAC750 as a starter. Turboprop not jet though, but I'm sure there'd still be a way to put a cannon in there. They use it for damn near everything else!

[jonbuoy]

Could they not squeeze a few apaches onto Canterbury?

[pete376403]

If people want to talk about national vulnerability, it might be worth reading up on Huawei.

In our region, both Australia and the Philippines have prevented Chinese network infrastructure company Huawei to participate in national telecommunications infrastructure projects.

New Zealand is going to pretty much be based on Huawei.

If anyone believes that a Chinese made NZ national telecommunications infrastructure build out doesn't realistically present a grave national security concern for NZ probably believes in the positive power of rainbows and unicorns.

Hasn't Alcatel-Lucent been given the nod over Huawei?

[Hinny]

Saw an A4 come up the Whakapapa skifield one year. I was on the Milk Run and he was below me as he went up the hill. Had come in under the cloud.
At the Easter show that year there was a photograph of that flight. The photographer must have been close to me. Detail was incredible. Clearly read all of the stickers around the cockpit. Clear view of the pilot and of the people behind the aircraft appearing above it! Awesome.

[Hinny]

I think you have confused NZ with Texas.
Please now complain about the government taking your guns away from you.

Also I am confused, are the farmers more important or less important than the fishermen?

You are confused and you think I am too.
Perhaps you could elucidate. In what way do you think I have confused NZ with Texas?

The Govt. hasn't taken my guns away.

Farmers contribute the majority of our export receipts so they are clearly the most important people in NZ.

[Hitcher]

If I was the RNZAF, I'd buy a squadron of these: http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/at-6b-light-attack/

A highly capable aircraft and pilots love them.

[imdying]

Planes be fucked.. if they were wasting out money on combat aircraft, they should be looking at drones.

[Swoop]

If I was the RNZAF, I'd buy a squadron of these: http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/at-6b-light-attack/

A highly capable aircraft and pilots love them.
We are. Tucano, probably.

... they should be looking at drones.
We already are.
and "other" stuff...

[lakedaemonian]

This thread is going off topic.

Why doesn't NZ have some A-10's - we need an aircraft that takes some flack, easy to maintain and of course "cheap".
A-10 is an ugly duckling - but a proven one.

Unfortunately the much loved(by Infantry) and much hated(Air Force Fighter Pilot Mafia) A10 was last build 30 years ago....that would be the YOUNGEST airframe(although they've been rebuilt repeatedly).

Factory, tooling, and company are LONG gone.

[lakedaemonian]

We could always build our own version using the PAC750 as a starter. Turboprop not jet though, but I'm sure there'd still be a way to put a cannon in there. They use it for damn near everything else!

Iraq is using Cessna 208's kitted out for ISR and hellfires.

A rather decent off the shelf platform for low intensity conflict in permissive airspace(even semi-permissive if fitted with countermeasures).

A properly equipped PAC750 with ISR and off the the shelf precision guided weapons would be a useful tool against less than peer threats.

There was a project I believe to basically turn any C130 into a possible Spectre Gunship-lite......by palletizing it.

[lakedaemonian]

Hasn't Alcatel-Lucent been given the nod over Huawei?

Not sure mate.......I just read soem bits and pieces about the controversy in Aussie and Philippines in binning Huawei from their projects and how Huawei was supposedly a done deal or a serious contender here in NZ.

With the stories that have broken over the last few days........it's worth serious consideration.

[lakedaemonian]

Saw an A4 come up the Whakapapa skifield one year. I was on the Milk Run and he was below me as he went up the hill. Had come in under the cloud.
At the Easter show that year there was a photograph of that flight. The photographer must have been close to me. Detail was incredible. Clearly read all of the stickers around the cockpit. Clear view of the pilot and of the people behind the aircraft appearing above it! Awesome.

I was on a boat in the Marlborough Sounds back in 2000 at dawn.

I was drinking a brew and looking out over the water in the distance and picked up some slight movement that became more rapid...........and then a pair of A4's probably doing 300+MPH straddled the boat at less than 50ft altitude....VERY cool.