Would this be counter productive? (back protectors)

[bosslady]

I bought an alpinestars back protector insert to match my jacket and was OK with that but some recent events made me think I should get one of those ones that strap around you etc. Could I use both since I already have the insert? Or would it be counter productive?

[carburator]

mate, your on a gn250 not doing track days knee down and insane road speeds...

[bosslady]

mate, your on a gn250 not doing track days knee down and insane road speeds...

Oh? So my spine doesn't need protecting then? Maybe I can flag all my armour then. Helmet too?? Sweet that will save me heaps of money. Please... 95% of my my riding is open road or motorways. And for the record I may not get my knee down but I have been to a track day and planning more. Besides its not just me or my bike that can hurt me... Plenty of other ppl on the road that could put me in a world of hurt.

[aderino4]

if your jacket fit properly (snug) then the one you currently have will be fine.

The general idea is that the back protector need to stay in place during a crash.

Wearing 2 is fine; but if you can do that, that would mean that your jacket is too big.
Which means you'd be better off buying a better fitting jacket.

[FJRider]

There are a few strap-on kidney belts that stop your internals rattling around ... and provides a bit of padding too. One with a good fit would provide a degree of comfort too. (before and after you fall off)

[bosslady]

if your jacket fit properly (snug) then the one you currently have will be fine.

The general idea is that the back protector need to stay in place during a crash.

Wearing 2 is fine; but if you can do that, that would mean that your jacket is too big.
Which means you'd be better off buying a better fitting jacket.

My jacket is snuggish not too loose but COULD be tighter but my torso and arms are too long for the next size down. Doesn't sit as snug with my back as the strap on protectorstthough for sure

[tigertim20]

mate, your on a gn250 not doing track days knee down and insane road speeds...

at 90 km an hour, or even 50, there can be a high risk of spinal injury, jesus, most paramedics treat basic falls from 1 metre as potential spinal injuries, it isnt about how far or hard you fall, rather HOW you fall.

that aside, I have a strap around type one, and it is comfortable and feels quite sturdy, I havent yet tested the current one I have, and hope not to, but they are the ones that I prefer over the insert ones, I dont really see a need for both, but no reason you can't if you want to, and it doesn't restrict your mobility too much.

I would buy a strap around one and just use that, my $0.02

[FJRider]

My jacket is snuggish not too loose but COULD be tighter but my torso and arms are too long for the next size down. Doesn't sit as snug with my back as the strap on protectorstthough for sure

Remember to allow room for a few extra layers of clothes in cooler months ... that sneaky cold DOES get in ... Another back protector wont add much warmth ..

[aderino4]

chest protector is the in thing at the moment.. If you are thinking of getting additional back protector; you may as well get something like this
http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/astrprotvest.aspx

One of the most common injury in a motorcycle accident is broken collar bone caused by the helmet/ other objects hitting it; chest protector will help.

[bosslady]

I didn't think about both of them not fitting together. If that happens to be the case id probably just end up using the strap on (minds out of the gutter!) I just didn't want to use two and have one affect the ability of the other to do its job proper.

[Asher]

Im having trouble understanding why you would still bother having the insert one if you have the strap on type......

[Grashopper]

Oh? So my spine doesn't need protecting then? Maybe I can flag all my armour then. Helmet too?? Sweet that will save me heaps of money. Please... 95% of my my riding is open road or motorways. And for the record I may not get my knee down but I have been to a track day and planning more. Besides its not just me or my bike that can hurt me... Plenty of other ppl on the road that could put me in a world of hurt.

+1!

Actually, I think you would probaly need more protection on the road than on a track. You don't have trees, fences and 4 or more wheelers on a race track. The GN can do up to 120, pretty enough speed to get seriously hurt or worse.

[bosslady]

chest protector is the in thing at the moment.. If you are thinking of getting additional back protector; you may as well get something like this
http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/astrprotvest.aspx

One of the most common injury in a motorcycle accident is broken collar bone caused by the helmet/ other objects hitting it; chest protector will help.
Yes, id heard that too re: collarbone. Know a biker who did that too. Hmmm seems like I should put more research into this chest protection sounds good too.

[bosslady]

Im having trouble understanding why you would still bother having the insert one if you have the strap on type......

I don't. I just figured I already have an insert but want a strap on. Just wondered if using both was a bad idea.

[Grashopper]

chest protector is the in thing at the moment.. If you are thinking of getting additional back protector; you may as well get something like this
http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/astrprotvest.aspx



Neat vest, wonder if there is something like that in a female cut. I'm just never sure about the usefulness of foam padding. But it is probably better than nothing. That back protector will at least stay where it is supposed to be. Must be extremely hot in summer though.

[aderino4]

Nothing wrong with foam. They do a good job to disperse the force of impact. Hard armour is good for abrasion i.e extra layer as your jacket is worn by the road. Especially useful when you're not wearing leather

[Maha]

There are a few strap-on kidney belts that stop your internals rattling around ... and provides a bit of padding too. One with a good fit would provide a degree of comfort too. (before and after you fall off)

Thats all I use...when I can remember to put it on that is. :(

[Hitcher]

I've never been able to see the point of a back protector. How much use it's going to be is going to be determined by the nature of the impact experienced.

Most people who come off are going to slide. A back protector may have some benefit spreading impact forces but again I can't see how it's going to do that all that well.

I'd put a back protector in the same category as knee sliders, chest protectors and fluoro vests.

And as for people who wear back protectors and back packs, I just don't get that at all. Actually I don't get the wearing of back packs, with or without a backpack.

[steve_t]

The best back protector is the one you'll actually use. I have a Knox Aegis back protector and consider it to be the best there is (not quite as much force reduction as the Sub4 but the Sub4 is about an inch thick!) HOWEVER I do find that I don't use it every time I ride. Obviously, it doesn't do me any good sitting at home. If you think you'll use it all the time, grab a separate one. The Alpinestars insert, while offering Level 2 protection, doesn't give any protection anywhere near your shoulder blades (scapulae)

Edit: Oh, and no, you wouldn't use both at the same time

[HenryDorsetCase]

I bought an alpinestars back protector insert to match my jacket and was OK with that but some recent events made me think I should get one of those ones that strap around you etc. Could I use both since I already have the insert? Or would it be counter productive?

it would entirely depend how comfortable it was. Try it and see. I really like the Knox back protector I have. I wear a backpack if commuting and I can imagine that two back protectors plus that would not be comfortable.

[HenryDorsetCase]

chest protector is the in thing at the moment.. If you are thinking of getting additional back protector; you may as well get something like this
http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/astrprotvest.aspx

One of the most common injury in a motorcycle accident is broken collar bone caused by the helmet/ other objects hitting it; chest protector will help.

I read an interesting article about that: when we were designed by the Flying Spaghetti monster, in his noodly wisdom he made the collarbone into a sort of fuse: When you puny humans fall you put your hands out by reflex. that can transfer shock straight up your arm into your shoulder and potentiall into your neck and spine. Not so good. So the clavicle is a fusible link which breaks rather than your neck. R'amen!

[GrayWolf]

. If that happens to be the case id probably just end up using the strap on (minds out of the gutter!) I just didn't want to use two and have one affect the ability of the other to do its job proper.

get our minds out the gutter?? Thing is YOURS went there as you were typing it....
Doi you have something you want to tell us all?? Is the nic BOSSlady a Freudian hint? :rolleyes:

[GrayWolf]

at 90 km an hour, or even 50, there can be a high risk of spinal injury, jesus, most paramedics treat basic falls from 1 metre as potential spinal injuries, it isnt about how far or hard you fall, rather HOW you fall.

that aside, I have a strap around type one, and it is comfortable and feels quite sturdy, I havent yet tested the current one I have, and hope not to, but they are the ones that I prefer over the insert ones, I dont really see a need for both, but no reason you can't if you want to, and it doesn't restrict your mobility too much.

I would buy a strap around one and just use that, my $0.02


Back protectors will help in absorbing the impact of a direct impact, but bear in mind, a high percentage of Motorcycle spinal injuries are from ROTATIONAL snapping, as well as impact.

[Edbear]

Back protectors will help in absorbing the impact of a direct impact, but bear in mind, a high percentage of Motorcycle spinal injuries are from ROTATIONAL snapping, as well as impact.

Sounds awfully painful! I just crushed vertebrae and that hurt like the proverbial. The thread about hitting the sheep showed how effective his back protector was.

[Gremlin]

I wouldn't imagine that wearing two at once is going to be very comfortable (and the extra bulk of having both). I have a Knox back insert for my jacket, and will use it for more simple roles, like moto marshalling and other lower speed stuff.

For country rides etc, the insert comes out and I wear a Knox Aegis and a chest protector (which straps into the back protector straps) and nothing in the back of the jacket. I've had it a while and now the back protector is nicely curved to me and quite comfortable.

[nzspokes]

In my partners crash at about 80kph her back protector was heavily damaged. She cracked L5 but not badly. I often wonder what the outcome would have been without the back protector.

I now wear one all the time.

[madandy]

I bought a strap on(over the shoulders and around the waist) back protector a fe years ago when someone on here cashed and slid under the rear of a car, hitting the tow bar. I camt remember if they wore a back protector and it prevented serious injury or stated that it would have of one was worn but it was enough for me to put one on every time I ride out of town. Mine fits snugly beneath my leather jacket when the thermal liner is in and in summer the foam insert goes in when the thermal comes out.

[nerrrd]

Not sure if this really qualifies as a "back protector" but it could be worn on top of other stuff.

http://www.motozone.co.nz/products/road-riding-gear/road-protection/helite-air-nest-airbag-vests.aspx

Expensive, though. Also wouldn't have a clue how effective it would be...

[bluninja]

chest protector is the in thing at the moment.. If you are thinking of getting additional back protector; you may as well get something like this
http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/astrprotvest.aspx

One of the most common injury in a motorcycle accident is broken collar bone caused by the helmet/ other objects hitting it; chest protector will help.

Really? Not disputing that collarbone fractures are a common injury. However, most are caused by indirect force when you stick your arm out to break your fall.

[Katman]

I just figured I already have an insert but want a strap on.

I'm pretty sure you can get them double ended these days.

Hope this helps.

[nodrog]

I bought a strap on(over the shoulders and around the waist) back protector a fe years ago when someone on here cashed and slid under the rear of a car, hitting the tow bar. I camt remember if they wore a back protector and it prevented serious injury or stated that it would have of one was worn but it was enough for me to put one on every time I ride out of town. Mine fits snugly beneath my leather jacket when the thermal liner is in and in summer the foam insert goes in when the thermal comes out.

Unfortunatly what marcus really needed was an arsehole protector.

[bluninja]

I've never been able to see the point of a back protector. How much use it's going to be is going to be determined by the nature of the impact experienced.

Most people who come off are going to slide. A back protector may have some benefit spreading impact forces but again I can't see how it's going to do that all that well.

I'd put a back protector in the same category as knee sliders, chest protectors and fluoro vests.

And as for people who wear back protectors and back packs, I just don't get that at all. Actually I don't get the wearing of back packs, with or without a backpack.

Strange that when racing you must have a back protector on...and most of their crashes are slides into kitty litter or bales. I did high side once on the RSVR and the back rpotector did it's job....the off could equally have happened on a road (3rd gear 50 kmh, wet tarmac, a bit of oil). Also I find back protectors keep my back warmer :)

[bosslady]

it would entirely depend how comfortable it was. Try it and see. I really like the Knox back protector I have. I wear a backpack if commuting and I can imagine that two back protectors plus that would not be comfortable.


get our minds out the gutter?? Thing is YOURS went there as you were typing it....
Doi you have something you want to tell us all?? Is the nic BOSSlady a Freudian hint? :rolleyes:

No truth to it at all.........



I wouldn't imagine that wearing two at once is going to be very comfortable (and the extra bulk of having both). I have a Knox back insert for my jacket, and will use it for more simple roles, like moto marshalling and other lower speed stuff.

For country rides etc, the insert comes out and I wear a Knox Aegis and a chest protector (which straps into the back protector straps) and nothing in the back of the jacket. I've had it a while and now the back protector is nicely curved to me and quite comfortable.

Just got a back protector.

http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/alpinestars-bionic-air-back-protector

but I see this other kind too

http://www.revzilla.com/product/alpinestars-bionic-back-protector


what is better level 1 or 2? guessing that second link is better, argh. Could always go back to the shop I guess...

[bosslady]

went back and bought this one in the end http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/asbiobprot.aspx from cyclespot Honda $10 cheaper than that link too. Think I will sell my insert to help pay for the new one haha

[Mental Trousers]

went back and bought this one in the end http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/asbiobprot.aspx from cyclespot Honda $10 cheaper too. Think I will sell my insert to help pay for the new one haha.

Good. Riding without a back protector is in the same category as riding without a helmet.

[Katman]

Good. Riding without a back protector is in the same category as riding without a helmet.

Really?

I've never worn a back protector.

[Maha]

Good. Riding without a back protector is in the same category as riding without a helmet.

But one is a legal requirement and one is not.

[Mental Trousers]

Really?

I've never worn a back protector.

There's two things you can't fix - head and back, most other parts of the body heal. If your back or head isn't worth anything to you then don't spend any money on them.

You're entirely responsible for looking after yourself on a motorbike, nobody else is going to watch out for you. You injure your back and you weren't wearing a back protector that's your problem.

[Mental Trousers]

But one is a legal requirement and one is not.

I don't write the rules. Legal requirement isn't stop your back from breaking if you land on it after doing a somersault over a car bonnet.

[Maha]

I don't write the rules. Legal requirement isn't stop your back from breaking if you land on it after doing a somersault over a car bonnet.

Its a personal choice, like wearing any other bit of protective gear...a helmet is the only legal requirement when riding a bike.
So it's not in same category...(so to speak) you either do or you don't.

On a recent group ride of 20 bikes, only 2-3 had a back protector on...I know of two definately, guessing there was a third.
You will find most do not wear one.
I am not saying its a bad thing, but it's up to the individual what he/she wants wear while riding a bike.

[Mental Trousers]

Its a personal choice, like wearing any other bit of protective gear...a helmet is the only legal requirement when riding a bike.
So it's not in same category...(so to speak) you either do or you don't.

On a recent group ride of 20 bikes, only 2-3 had a back protector on...I know of two definately, guessing there was a third.
You will find most do not wear one.
I am not saying its a bad thing, but it's up to the individual what he/she wants wear while riding a bike.

As you say it's a personal choice. My choice is it's in the same category as a helmet cos I won't get on a bike without either. Doesn't matter if it's my race bike, a kids 50cc quad, a scooter to shoot down the shop for milk etc.

[bosslady]

Good. Riding without a back protector is in the same category as riding without a helmet.

I see lots of emphasis on getting a good helmet but very little on getting a good back protector. You can buy some helmets cheaper than any back protector too I think? must be a supply vs. demand thing. I didn't have to get such an expensive back protector but figured spending a little more might just be worth it comfort/safety wise.. and won't deny there was a little label bashing in there too.


Really?

I've never worn a back protector.

Hope you're not trying to start a debate ;)


Its a personal choice, like wearing any other bit of protective gear...a helmet is the only legal requirement when riding a bike.
So it's not in same category...(so to speak) you either do or you don't.

On a recent group ride of 20 bikes, only 2-3 had a back protector on...I know of two definately, guessing there was a third.
You will find most do not wear one.
I am not saying its a bad thing, but it's up to the individual what he/she wants wear while riding a bike.


Agreed. I had a back protector. Just was my aftermarket insert, not the strap on one of course...

[FJRider]

I didn't have to get such an expensive back protector but figured spending a little more might just be worth it comfort/safety wise.. and won't deny there was a little label bashing in there too.

You will be better off with it on, in the event of an off ... than not having it.

To reduce the risk of injury... or reduce the amount of injury ... it must be worth having.

Well done for getting one.

But it wont work if it's never worn.

[bosslady]

You will be better off with it on, in the event of an off ... than not having it.

To reduce the risk of injury... or reduce the amount of injury ... it must be worth having.

Well done for getting one.

But it wont work if it's never worn.

nah I'll wear it, will make me look like a PROfessionaaaaaal bad ass.

[haydes55]

nah I'll wear it, will make me look like a PROfessionaaaaaal bad ass.

My mum got me an airjackey for xmas :2thumbsup

Just waiting for the gas canister to arrive. Seen 3 or 4 riders crash at speedway from nasty looking crashes with the air jackets on and they were back out for the next race. If they can help hitting a wall on those bikes then I trust it to work for most road crashes for me. Plus it covers my back and front. I did have a fox body armour suit which has back protector elbow pads chest pads etc but the sewing on the straps has undone and need to get the to mum so she can work her sewing magic on that (good ol mum eh?).

On a different note, what does anyone use for neck protectors? I wont race my bike without a Leatt brace but haven't even tried it with my road helmet. I'm a fan of not breaking any bones so I might see it it works with my road gear :niceone:

[bosslady]

My mum got me an airjackey for xmas :2thumbsup

Just waiting for the gas canister to arrive. Seen 3 or 4 riders crash at speedway from nasty looking crashes with the air jackets on and they were back out for the next race. If they can help hitting a wall on those bikes then I trust it to work for most road crashes for me. Plus it covers my back and front. I did have a fox body armour suit which has back protector elbow pads chest pads etc but the sewing on the straps has undone and need to get the to mum so she can work her sewing magic on that (good ol mum eh?).

On a different note, what does anyone use for neck protectors? I wont race my bike without a Leatt brace but haven't even tried it with my road helmet. I'm a fan of not breaking any bones so I might see it it works with my road gear :niceone:

what's an airjackey?

[The End]

what's an airjackey?



I believe it's one of those fancy jackets that has areas that 'explode' when you crash. If it senses a hard fall, certain areas of the jacket inflate like airbags to cushion your fall.


Or you could just not fall off in the first place :lol:

Like this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mo9Vlt5tGwY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Coldrider]

yep, they cost about 8 hundy. I'd just wrap a blow up doll around my chest and use er as an air fence if distracted. :devil2:

[The End]

yep, they cost about 8 hundy. I'd just wrap a blow up doll around my chest and use er as an air fence if distracted. :devil2:

I wonder if 'big' chested women would even need one of those fancy jackets then, seems like a waste of money if you have built in air bags :bleh:

[haydes55]

what's an airjackey?

That is a surprisingly cute sounding typo :lol:

Mine cost about $1200 :crazy:

It's like a lifejacket, put it on like a vest, zip it up and attach a pull cord to the bike. If I become separated from the bike, the pull cord will release gas in the CO2 canister to inflate the vest in a split second. The chest and back inflate simultaneously. The vest itself is made up of about inch thick foam then the air bladder then a fabric layer so after it deflates, you can attach a new canister and reuse it.

[steve_t]

That is a surprisingly cute sounding typo :lol:

Mine cost about $1200 :crazy:

It's like a lifejacket, put it on like a vest, zip it up and attach a pull cord to the bike. If I become separated from the bike, the pull cord will release gas in the CO2 canister to inflate the vest in a split second. The chest and back inflate simultaneously. The vest itself is made up of about inch thick foam then the air bladder then a fabric layer so after it deflates, you can attach a new canister and reuse it.

So if you forget to decouple yourself from the bike when you get off, the jacket inflates? I could imagine that happening to me multiple times before learning... and a few times after as well :apumpin:

[haydes55]

So if you forget to decouple yourself from the bike when you get off, the jacket inflates? I could imagine that happening to me multiple times before learning... and a few times after as well :apumpin:

'Twas my first question as well :rolleyes:

Fortunately the pull cord takes a bit of force to set it off. You notice the tug before it sets it has enough force to pull it out.

[swbarnett]

Oh? So my spine doesn't need protecting then? Maybe I can flag all my armour then. Helmet too??
Well, that brings up the whole debate surrounding PPE (personal protection equipment). When motorcycles were first invented PPE was not even considered. Each successive generation seems to think that they need more PPE than the one before. When my father was riding in the '50s he wore an army great coat, thin gauntlet gloves for the cold and a pudding-basin helmet (and probably his work shoes and trousers). When I started riding in the '80s a full-face helmet was a given, gloves and boots were optional extras and my first jacket was a PVC rain jacket (I used to wear denim in summer). I came off 6 times in the first two years and the worst I did to myself was a grazed knee. Now we are getting to the point that anything short of full leather and specialised back/chest protector is considered foolhardy. Where will it end?*

The fact of the matter is that we are at risk in anything we do. How we manage that risk is a personal choice. I'm not saying PPE is to be ignored (it is a valid choice for mitigating the concequences of an accident). What I am saying is that the risk is not as high as it's made out to be. In these days of rampant media and the interweb we get a very distorted view of our own personal risk.

If one wants to spend money on risk management it's far more important to invest in training than the nth degree of PPE. A naked rider with their head screwed on is far safer than a fully cotton-wooled rider without a clue.




*There will come a point where there's no more scope for PPE and the only option to increase one's safety will be to not ride.

[bosslady]

Well, that brings up the whole debate surrounding PPE (personal protection equipment). When motorcycles were first invented PPE was not even considered. Each successive generation seems to think that they need more PPE than the one before. When my father was riding in the '50s he wore an army great coat, thin gauntlet gloves for the cold and a pudding-basin helmet (and probably his work shoes and trousers). When I started riding in the '80s a full-face helmet was a given, gloves and boots were optional extras and my first jacket was a PVC rain jacket (I used to wear denim in summer). I came off 6 times in the first two years and the worst I did to myself was a grazed knee. Now we are getting to the point that anything short of full leather and specialised back/chest protector is considered foolhardy. Where will it end?*

The fact of the matter is that we are at risk in anything we do. How we manage that risk is a personal choice. I'm not saying PPE is to be ignored (it is a valid choice for mitigating the concequences of an accident). What I am saying is that the risk is not as high as it's made out to be. In these days of rampant media and the interweb we get a very distorted view of our own personal risk.

If one wants to spend money on risk management it's far more important to invest in training than the nth degree of PPE. A naked rider with their head screwed on is far safer than a fully cotton-wooled rider without a clue.




*There will come a point where there's no more scope for PPE and the only option to increase one's safety will be to not ride.

For what it's worth, what you quoted from me was in response to the comment that basically because I "only" have a ginny, somehow I don't need a back protector and only people who do track days and get their knee on the ground do :lol: personal choice I think. Shouldn't matter what bike I have. That was all.

I don't care what other people do, that's their choice and if there is the equipment/gear there and I can get it, then I don't see any reason why I shouldn't, but should never rely on my gear saving me, for sure. I have already spent money when I first started on lessons/instruction and am going to book another course shortly so certainly not getting complacent :) But if I can have both the gear and the training then I am lucky I think :) or stupid... and poor eventually too I think :lol:

[ckai]

went back and bought this one in the end http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/asbiobprot.aspx from cyclespot Honda $10 cheaper than that link too. Think I will sell my insert to help pay for the new one haha

This may piss you off but this is the one I have, brought from these guys, at this price last year http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/Detail.bok?no=424 (US$24 shipping I believe).

Mine goes all the way down to cover the cox-thingie (can never spell it right) and because of that, I don't wear it all the time. Comfy as hell and when I'm on the track I put it in the same category as a seat belt.

Good on you for getting one. I only have the thin foam padding in my jackets but there's no way in hell I would be able to have a flash insert and a stap-on. Actually I should throw on the old mans jacket which has one and see what it's like.

EDIT: Never mind, I see they're not available anymore which would make you feel better :)

[bosslady]

This may piss you off but this is the one I have, brought from these guys, at this price last year http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/Detail.bok?no=424 (US$24 shipping I believe).

Mine goes all the way down to cover the cox-thingie (can never spell it right) and because of that, I don't wear it all the time. Comfy as hell and when I'm on the track I put it in the same category as a seat belt.

Good on you for getting one. I only have the thin foam padding in my jackets but there's no way in hell I would be able to have a flash insert and a stap-on. Actually I should throw on the old mans jacket which has one and see what it's like.

EDIT: Never mind, I see they're not available anymore which would make you feel better :)

Haha it's ok, I don't feel bad anyway. I could have got it overseas but I don't know that there would have been a dramatic price difference when you need to consider IFFFFF you will get stung with customs/gst fees, shipping, plus the the (painful) wait for the stuff to come. BESIDES means I won't get shit from kb'rs for not buying local ;)

[swbarnett]

For what it's worth, what you quoted from me was in response to the comment that basically because I "only" have a ginny, somehow I don't need a back protector and only people who do track days and get their knee on the ground do :lol: personal choice I think. Shouldn't matter what bike I have. That was all.
I totally agree.


I don't care what other people do, that's their choice and if there is the equipment/gear there and I can get it, then I don't see any reason why I shouldn't, but should never rely on my gear saving me, for sure. I have already spent money when I first started on lessons/instruction and am going to book another course shortly so certainly not getting complacent :) But if I can have both the gear and the training then I am lucky I think :) or stupid... and poor eventually too I think :lol:
Ceratinly from what I saw on the recent L's Angels ride the training you've had has paid off. Only a few months on the bike and you're already looking like the big L is only to satisfy the beaurocrats.

My comments were not aimed at you specifically. More a general comment on what seems to be an increase in the cotton-wool mentality of society.

[bosslady]

I totally agree.


Ceratinly from what I saw on the recent L's Angels ride the training you've had has paid off. Only a few months on the bike and you're already looking like the big L is only to satisfy the beaurocrats.

My comments were not aimed at you specifically. More a general comment on what seems to be an increase in the cotton-wool mentality of society.
Lol thanks. Didn't know I was being watched Haha. Still lots to learn though.

[ckai]

Haha it's ok, I don't feel bad anyway. I could have got it overseas but I don't know that there would have been a dramatic price difference when you need to consider IFFFFF you will get stung with customs/gst fees, shipping, plus the the (painful) wait for the stuff to come. BESIDES means I won't get shit from certain kb'rs for not buying local ;)

Fixed it for ya ;) But yeah you don't want to receive the wrath from 'dem gestapo. They can type some serious words :D

[Banditbandit]

Yeah Yeah .. I've binned it 11 times in my riding career (or is it 12?) ... and apart from the off-road mishaps, I've worn a leathers ... and walked away (well, limped a couple of times) ... including binning it in a sweeping right hander at 110klicks (tank slapper)... hitting two cars (their fault) ... and miscellanious other contacts with the road ...

A good helmet and leathers (gloves, pants, jacket, boots) is all you need ... the rest is marketing strategy handing money to salesmen - or a very good idea for racing ...

Don't get carried away spending money you don't need to ...

[bosslady]

Yeah Yeah .. I've binned it 11 times in my riding career (or is it 12?) ... and apart from the off-road mishaps, I've worn a leathers ... and walked away (well, limped a couple of times) ... including binning it in a sweeping right hander at 110klicks (tank slapper)... hitting two cars (their fault) ... and miscellanious other contacts with the road ...

A good helmet and leathers (gloves, pants, jacket, boots) is all you need ... the rest is marketing strategy handing money to salesmen - or a very good idea for racing ...

Don't get carried away spending money you don't need to ...

Leathers will hopefully be my next Xmas pressy to myself, only got textiles. I guess really, all depends on where/how you fall, eh.

[haydes55]

Having too much protection can't hurt you. But no having enough can. Id rather give myself more of a chance of survival in the worst case scenario than put all my eggs in the never crashing basket. What we can change to make ourselves safer we should do. Whether that is more gear ir more training. However no amount of training will make you immune to crashing and no amount of gear is going to make you impervious to injury.

Train enough to be sure you wont crash. And wear everything you can to protect yourself from any misfortune that may arise.

What would you want to be wearing if you come across a foreigner on the wrong side of the road around a blind corner?

[Maha]

What would you want to be wearing if you come across a foreigner on the wrong side of the road around a blind corner?

A Mack Truck?

[swbarnett]

Having too much protection can't hurt you.
That's a very sweeping statement. If too much PPE is uncomfortable and takes your mind of your riding it can be extremely damaging.


But no having enough can. Id rather give myself more of a chance of survival in the worst case scenario than put all my eggs in the never crashing basket. What we can change to make ourselves safer we should do.

Whether that is more gear ir more training.
We can stop riding. Would you advocate that?


However no amount of training will make you immune to crashing and no amount of gear is going to make you impervious to injury.

Train enough to be sure you wont crash. And wear everything you can to protect yourself from any misfortune that may arise.

What would you want to be wearing if you come across a foreigner on the wrong side of the road around a blind corner?
My brain at full attention (both conscious and subconscious).

[haydes55]

That's a very sweeping statement. If too much PPE is uncomfortable and takes your mind of your riding it can be extremely damaging.


We can stop riding. Would you advocate that?


My brain at full attention (both conscious and subconscious).

I meant anything we can do to make us safer doing what we enjoy.

So are you comfortable riding in shorts singlet and sneakers? I would wear no protection if i could guarantee I wouldn't crash. No matter if I've been riding for 50 years and havent crashed in 40 years. I couldn't guarantee I wont be involved in a crash. I wear the gear for the "what if". If you think you wont crash because you are too well trained and too good at riding then you are sorely mistaken. Nothin is 100% in your control.

[swbarnett]

I meant anything we can do to make us safer doing what we enjoy.
I hear ya. An important distinction.


So are you comfortable riding in shorts singlet and sneakers?
I used to be. I've gotten more paranoid with age. I still ride in jeans a lot of the time. Really the only time I wear the armoured trou is when it's too cold not to. Although I will sometimes wear them with shorts.


I would wear no protection if i could guarantee I wouldn't crash. No matter if I've been riding for 50 years and havent crashed in 40 years. I couldn't guarantee I wont be involved in a crash. I wear the gear for the "what if".
Agreed. What I'm getting at is that the amout pof PPE "required" has changed over the generations since the motorcycle was invented. To me it's getting to a ridiculous level. Perhaps that's because I'm from the "previous" generation and, as such, have been conditioned by a diferent set of values when it comes to what is and isn't risky.


If you think you wont crash because you are too well trained and too good at riding then you are sorely mistaken. Nothin is 100% in your control.
No, never 100%, but it can get close enough so that, to all practicality, it makes no difference. How close this has to be depends on the amount of risk you're willing to accept.

[nakedsv]

What would you want to be wearing if you come across a foreigner on the wrong side of the road around a blind corner?

I've always wandered a bit about this kind of scenario, are full leathers and armour really going to do much to reduce the effects of a head on collision at 100kph? I have my doubts

[bosslady]

I've always wandered a bit about this kind of scenario, are full leathers and armour really going to do much to reduce the effects of a head on collision at 100kph? I have my doubts

armour might help a little but I doubt leathers would in that scenario? besides that may just kill you, both you and them at speed, straight towards eachother..

[FJRider]

I've always wandered a bit about this kind of scenario, are full leathers and armour really going to do much to reduce the effects of a head on collision at 100kph? I have my doubts

I've seen it happen and the rider got up and walked away. (ok ... limped away)

But some scenario's you wont walk away. Bike gear is risk management ... not risk removal.

[Maha]

I've always wandered a bit about this kind of scenario, are full leathers and armour really going to do much to reduce the effects of a head on collision at 100kph? I have my doubts

Not alot will help in a front on impact...maybe a wee bit of luck.

[bluninja]

Not alot will help in a front on impact...maybe a wee bit of luck.

and not going faster than your guardian angel :)

[swbarnett]

Not alot will help in a front on impact...maybe a wee bit of luck.
This actually happened to a friend of a work colleague of Irene in the early '80s; 230kph on a straight road, tyre blows out, bike swerves into the path of the only other vehicle around - direct frontal impact. The impact pushed the engine of the car into the back seat. The only injury to the rider was to his legs as he flew over the car and impacted the top of the windscreen.

[Banditbandit]

This actually happened to a friend of a work colleague of Irene in the early '80s; 230kph on a straight road, tyre blows out, bike swerves into the path of the only other vehicle around - direct frontal impact. The impact pushed the engine of the car into the back seat. The only injury to the rider was to his legs as he flew over the car and impacted the top of the windscreen.

And if it had been a Mac truck instead he would have been a multi-coloured hood ornament ... proper gear or no proper gear ..

[swbarnett]

And if it had been a Mac truck instead he would have been a multi-coloured hood ornament ... proper gear or no proper gear ..
Indeed. Maybe that's a reason for an ejecta seat? Mind you, they'd probably get tangled up in power lines. And the landing would be a bitch.

[R-Soul]

Neat vest, wonder if there is something like that in a female cut. I'm just never sure about the usefulness of foam padding. But it is probably better than nothing. That back protector will at least stay where it is supposed to be. Must be extremely hot in summer though.

I see there is one with hard armour front and back. I like that.

[p.dath]

I bought an alpinestars back protector insert to match my jacket and was OK with that but some recent events made me think I should get one of those ones that strap around you etc. Could I use both since I already have the insert? Or would it be counter productive?

Hopefully your back protector is 'CE' certified. There are two classes of back protector. Perhaps start by checking which class yours is made to - if any. Unlike helmets, there is no requirement for a back protector to be made to any standard.

Class '1' limits the impact energy transferred into your back to 16,000 N. Class '2' limits the impact energy transferred into your back to 8,000 N.

It is widely accepted death occurs at anything over 4,000N. Can you spot a problem here?


I an not aware of any back protector standard that specifies any kind of abrasion resistance. Indeed, most are made from some kind of plastic, and will wear quickly. So don't expect a back protector to save the skin on your back during a slide, despite what many might say (mostly track people from my experience).


So on the whole, back protectors do not provide a level of protection that many of their owns think they might. They will not stop you getting a broken back if you have a hard impact to your back.

HOWEVER, back protectors are good for limiting the amount of bruising and minor abrasions to your back from small impacts and hits. I personally feel their value at 50km/h is very limited; at 100Km/h they serve some value; and at a track pace of 200km/h or more they are almost useless. Note - my opinion, and others will disagree, especially track people.


Personally I do have a class '2' back protector. I don't bother with it if I know I am going only on 50km/h urban roads. I do use it if I know I am going on 100km/h roads. I wear it on the track - because the rules say I have to, but I feel wise use of my throttle is a better safety device.

[bosslady]

Thanks but I got one last week. Level 2. Wear it all the time. I never go anywhere where I only go 50kmh and even if I was, tis no hassle to put it on. Cheers

[vifferman]

In the final analysis, how much protection your gear gives or doesn't give you depends so much on the circumstances (physics) of the particular incident. Quoting instances where you or someone wearing no protection crashed at sublight velocity and walked away unscathed, or where someone else wearing all the best gear crashed at walking speed and carked it doesn't prove anything.
My cousin died when he tripped over on the wharf and hit his head. I've collided with cars at around 70km/h twice - once wearing F-all gear, and once wearing pretty good gear, including a jacket with a reasonable built-in back protector. In both cases, the bike was written off, (and in both cases I wasn't at fault, but could have avoided it happening).Of course, neither was planned, but I know which one was the least worst.
I have a decent back protector, but apart from a couple of rides, it's spent its whole life in my cupboard. Maybe I'll wear it next time I ride.... and maybe I'll get hit by a truck and die anyway.

As others have said, choose your own level of risk, protection, whatever. But it fkn hurts when you hit hard things or are hit by hard things. Just don't moan about it.

[Tigadee]

Why is it that in the reviews of back protectors, they just talk and point and talk? They ought to put a sledgehammer to it while the guy is wearing it, or bring in a kick boxer and let him go at it. THEN we know we are buying a good product!

[ducatilover]

Might chime in here.

I wore a back protector many moons ago. It is the reason I can still walk.
I like them.