Seven Sharp's piece on women in the top tiers of power

[PrincessBandit]

I loved listening to Bob Jones talk about the fact that people should be in positions in the upper hierachy based on merit rather than token diversity. I agree with him. He also commented though that women don't rise higher in the ranks because they're not prepared to stay behind for socialising/bonding over booze (golf, insert-option-of-choice) after hours - "their commitment stops at 5pm" i think he said.

That got me thinking. How many women (and men, for that matter) are penalised because they won't sell their soul to the company. My sister left a prestigious position in a bank due to the heavy expectations on her to give her life basically to them. She knew there were any number of younger men who were waiting in the wings for her departure, ready to give that "over and above the call of duty" to the business.

I also wondered how many men are caught in the rat wheel with the same predicament - they don't want to do what many women do (according to Bob Jones, sabotage their opportunities through having a life outside of work) as there would also be many other men prepared to make the sacrifices of hours with family, hobbies etc. in order to move up the ranks.

Your thoughts?

[merv]

Come Friday each week and I'm outta there, probably why my career peaked 15 years ago. I always saw it as kissing arse and just couldn't be bothered with it when I had a family to go home to. The way the corporate world is dog eat dog I always figured it was better to kiss no arse than follow an arse that later became last year's executive. I kept my conscience clear if not gaining the lucrative pay rate that the arse kissers might have.

[Akzle]

what the fuck are you on about. you watch TV and think you have an opinion of your own?

prime example of why women shouldn't be allowed to vote.

((no seriously, NZ has been all fucking downhill since we "progressively" allowed women to decide shit. it's a fucking dumb idea. politics wasn't designed for your benefit it was made by men, for men, GTFO of it. bleeding out the crotch is not a valid excuse for your tomfuckery. which fucking bitch decided 15. yes, say it. FIFTEEN was a good age for CONSENSUAL SEX. tell you fucken whut, i'll be putting foot up 15 year old a55 if they think they're gonna carry on with that crap.))

[Edbear]

Unfortunately he is correct. It shouldn't be that way but the reality is that much of the time progress within a company is based on personal relationships over qualifications and experience.

I have always put "life" ahead of work and family ahead of everything else. I believe the cost of getting ahead is far greater than the rewards as all you have left in the end is salary and position in a company but no-one to share your "success" with at home. It really can be, lonely at the top. You sacrifice your real life for an illusion.

Some may recall the song, " I'm Going to be like you, Dad!" ?

[pete376403]

Unfortunately he is correct. It shouldn't be that way but the reality is that much of the time progress within a company is based on personal relationships over qualifications and experience.

I have always put "life" ahead of work and family ahead of everything else. I believe the cost of getting ahead is far greater than the rewards as all you have left in the end is salary and position in a company but no-one to share your "success" with at home. It really can be, lonely at the top. You sacrifice your real life for an illusion.

Some may recall the song, " I'm Going to be like you, Dad!" ?
"Cats in the Cradle" Harry Chapin

[PrincessBandit]

[COLOR="#139922"]what the fuck are you on about. you watch TV and think you have an opinion of your own?

prime example of why women shouldn't be allowed to vote.

( bleeding out the crotch is what I'm doing right now which is why I'm being such a bitch

:baby:
10char

[mashman]

Hey, it's all about teamwork... and if you're not part of the team after work, then how can you be a part of the team during work.

I never saw the programme (Boyd's a dick of epic proportions, really really can't stand the ignorant fucker (he's Campbell but with even less credibility), the unknown guy would make more of an impression is he was being dragged around the studio by midgets dressed up as unicorns, and Mau is stuck in the middle (jury's out)) and to be honest I won't go looking for it as I've lived it for more years than I care to count... However every now and then you meet people who don't see it as a prerequisite, but that seems to be becoming the exception instead of the rule these days.

[Swoop]

People still watch that crap on tv1?

Seriously?

[Number One]

what the fuck are you on about. you watch TV and think you have an opinion of your own?

prime example of why women shouldn't be allowed to vote.

((no seriously, NZ has been all fucking downhill since we "progressively" allowed women to decide shit. it's a fucking dumb idea. politics wasn't designed for your benefit it was made by men, for men, GTFO of it. bleeding out the crotch is not a valid excuse for your tomfuckery.

hahahahaha omg... gasps... what a catch you are.

[Madness]

It's been a long time since I had a woman on top.

:(

[Dean]

what the fuck are you on about. you watch TV and think you have an opinion of your own?

prime example of why women shouldn't be allowed to vote.

((no seriously, NZ has been all fucking downhill since we "progressively" allowed women to decide shit. it's a fucking dumb idea. politics wasn't designed for your benefit it was made by men, for men, GTFO of it. bleeding out the crotch is not a valid excuse for your tomfuckery. which fucking bitch decided 15. yes, say it. FIFTEEN was a good age for CONSENSUAL SEX. tell you fucken whut, i'll be putting foot up 15 year old a55 if they think they're gonna carry on with that crap.))

Hahahaha this is GOLD

[Number One]

It's been a long time since I had a woman on top.

:(

bites knuckle...must not go there...must show restraint...

[PrincessBandit]

People still watch that crap on tv1?

Seriously?

Meh, even crap can be entertaining at times.

[Winston001]

He also commented though that women don't rise higher in the ranks because they're not prepared to stay behind for socialising/bonding over booze (golf, insert-option-of-choice) after hours - "their commitment stops at 5pm" i think he said.

That got me thinking. How many women (and men, for that matter) are penalised because they won't sell their soul to the company. .



Its not a matter of selling your soul to anybody. Human relationships trump all. If you meet someone who might at some later point need your expertise and you get on well with each other, they are likely to remember you and your business.

The point is that work does not stop at 5pm.

Furthermore many people (probably more men than women) enjoy out of the office socialising and don't regard it as hard work when they are young and keen.

Women in my experience are actually better at this networking than men and they can sustain it by phone, email, seminars etc etc over many years. What stops them is biology - their children become more important than work and good on them.

Personally I've never liked the schmoozing so instead did public speaking at service clubs and meetings when I could. My family have always come first.

[SMOKEU]

You're all missing the point here completely. What's the woman doing out of the kitchen in the first place?

[Number One]

You're all missing the point here completely. What's the woman doing out of the kitchen in the first place?

http://youtu.be/6zXDo4dL7SU

[Berries]

Unfortunately he is correct.
Akzle? Yeah, always thought you were one and the same.

[SMOKEU]

http://youtu.be/6zXDo4dL7SU

Thanks, that complemented my post quite nicely.

[Akzle]

Akzle? Yeah, always thought you were one and the same.

:Oi:

no need to be fucken rude eh.

[Paul in NZ]

Ive never been sure if after work schmoozing is required to get the deals done or if guys that like mid to upper management roles are just slippery bastards with drinking problems...

Either way - I'll never fit in because I don't like it one little bit. In fact i get a bit antsy because I would rather go for a ride / paddle / fish / gym / hang out with Vicki in any other way...

Fortunately I'm also a terrible liar and not very sociable at all so these people actively avoid me - it kind of works out but does limit your career...

[Edbear]

"Cats in the Cradle" Harry Chapin

That's the one!


Akzle? Yeah, always thought you were one and the same.

Eh? How did you get that mixed up..? :weird:

[ducatilover]

People are more likely to give to others they like, that's just how we are.

More to the point, how do people manage office work? I'd go fookin' mad being stuck in an office

[imdying]

It's been a long time since I had a woman on top.

:(

Why does it not surprise me you like blokes :psst:

[Bald Eagle]

The point is that work does not stop at 5pm.


If the paycheck stops at 5 it's not work anymore, it's brown nosing.


Hey, it's all about teamwork... and if you're not part of the team after work, then how can you be a part of the team during work.


'Cos the Team only exists at work. See above.

It's a commercial transcation, they pay you for your time. The time they don't pay you for is for living.

[mashman]

More to the point, how do people manage office work?

We torture ourselves with wishing we could be outside doing something else...

[Big Dave]

Don't watch TV, but this shlock journo act seems to have provoked the response it was intended to.


if guys that like mid to upper management roles are just slippery bastards with drinking problems...




I played the game a long time ago. Marketing manager large corporation.

They'd (management) have a 'team bonding session'; get drunk, complain endlessly about their wife - even call her 'the enemy' or similar then they expose their penis on the bus coming home maggoted from the private box at the football stadium.

Next day it's laughed about as great hijinx. That's why they don't like women around. Cramps their 'style'.

The Journo is right about one thing probably. 'No. You're fucking morons when you are drunk' accounted for my career there.

Not playing the bonding game only harms your career in cultures that are toxic to begin with. She's better off out of them.

[Banditbandit]

You're all missing the point here completely. What's the woman doing out of the kitchen in the first place?

Make this fella some eggs ya reckon ??

[Banditbandit]

Not playing the bonding game only harms your career in cultures that are toxic to begin with. She's better off out of them.

Yes .. I wouldn't buy into their toxic corporate environment either ... career? What career??

Better off without it ... happier and more fulfiled (and more time to ride)

[ducatilover]

We torture ourselves with wishing we could be outside doing something else...

I'm having a cuppa and ciggie in my garage, looking out the door at the nice countryside in the sun. It's horrible :killingme
I can turn around and admire all the polishing work I'm doing too... and my two bikes.

[Banditbandit]

I'm having a cuppa and ciggie in my garage, looking out the door at the nice countryside in the sun. It's horrible :killingme
I can turn around and admire all the polishing work I'm doing too... and my two bikes.

Yeah yeah ... rub it in why don't ya ... but it can be a very broke lifestyle too .. so polishing the bike becomes the only thng you can afford to do to it ..

[oneofsix]

I'm having a cuppa and ciggie in my garage, looking out the door at the nice countryside in the sun. It's horrible

bloody right its horrible - smoking inside your place of work :nono:

:corn:

[ducatilover]

Yeah yeah ... rub it in why don't ya ... but it can be a very broke lifestyle too .. so polishing the bike becomes the only thng you can afford to do to it ..
Money is over rated, being a happy fella is worth it

bloody right its horrible - smoking inside your place of work :nono:

:corn:

Catching fire is exciting :D

[Banditbandit]

Money is over rated,

THis is true ...


being a happy fella is worth it




being able to afford to eat, to have a warm place to sleep and to have a bike to ride and able to put petrol in it does require a modicum of money ... Now I'm not one for multi-million dollar places to eat sleep and fuck ... or expensive Eye-talian bikes ... or expensive Harley road lice ... but some money does make it easier to be happy

[mashman]

I'm having a cuppa and ciggie in my garage, looking out the door at the nice countryside in the sun. It's horrible :killingme
I can turn around and admire all the polishing work I'm doing too... and my two bikes.

Cunt... I'm sitting looking at Visual Studio. I know where I'd rather be and what I'd like to be polishing :innocent:

[ducatilover]

Cunt... I'm sitting looking at Visual Studio. I know where I'd rather be and what I'd like to be polishing :innocent: :lol: My knob?


THis is true ...



being able to afford to eat, to have a warm place to sleep and to have a bike to ride and able to put petrol in it does require a modicum of money ... Now I'm not one for multi-million dollar places to eat sleep and fuck ... or expensive Eye-talian bikes ... or expensive Harley road lice ... but some money does make it easier to be happy
Got that all relatively under control :first: 'cept them eye-talian things, one day though.

[SMOKEU]

Make this fella some eggs ya reckon ??

That would be a good start.

[Big Dave]

I'm sitting looking at Visual Studio

Well Mr Altruism - I suggest that the VAST majority of the world's population would rather be doing that than what they are doing right now.


User.


:devil2:

[Maha]

Watched parts of it again last night for secong time, that Bob Jones bit? he had a few points, Ms Mau was none to pleased with some of his business beliefs, that was obvious.
They need to dump that twit Mulligan, replace him with Lana Cocroft or Nadine Charmer Ross.

[Banditbandit]

Well Mr Altruism - I suggest that the VAST majority of the world's population would rather be doing that than what they are doing right now.


User.


:devil2:

THe vast majority of the world's population is probably in bed ... (or wherever they happen to fuck and sleep)

[HenryDorsetCase]

what the fuck are you on about. you watch TV and think you have an opinion of your own?

prime example of why women shouldn't be allowed to vote.

((no seriously, NZ has been all fucking downhill since we "progressively" allowed women to decide shit. it's a fucking dumb idea. politics wasn't designed for your benefit it was made by men, for men, GTFO of it. bleeding out the crotch is not a valid excuse for your tomfuckery. which fucking bitch decided 15. yes, say it. FIFTEEN was a good age for CONSENSUAL SEX. tell you fucken whut, i'll be putting foot up 15 year old a55 if they think they're gonna carry on with that crap.))

Do we have a candidate for "post of the year"? I think we just might!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Don't watch TV, but this shlock journo act seems to have provoked the response it was intended to.




I played the game a long time ago. Marketing manager large corporation.

They'd (management) have a 'team bonding session'; get drunk, complain endlessly about their wife - even call her 'the enemy' or similar then they expose their penis on the bus coming home maggoted from the private box at the football stadium.

Next day it's laughed about as great hijinx. That's why they don't like women around. Cramps their 'style'.

The Journo is right about one thing probably. 'No. You're fucking morons when you are drunk' accounted for my career there.

Not playing the bonding game only harms your career in cultures that are toxic to begin with. She's better off out of them.

one of the reasons I will never be a rich lawyer at a big firm because that sort of culture is endemic there (as are 80+ hour work weeks, black humour, depression and suicide). Not only internal to the firm but also expected to be external schmoozing those pricks so they will continue to send work your way. Fuck everything about that.

One of the really good things about the GFC for me (apart from the two thirds income reduction - that kind of sucked) was that I could cruise in when I felt like it, leave at 5pm, do things like go to the gym, and generally have a hell of a lot less stress in my life. I am happier, my domestic circumstances are way happier, and in every way my life is measurably better. Now that we are busy again, and looking like staying that way for a bit, I am consciously thinking about all that shit, and to a certain extent picking and choosing the work I want. I turned down two jobs last year because I knew that we didnt have the ability to do them in a timeframe that I would be happy with.

Too long: the lesson is work to live, dont live to work.

[mashman]

:lol: My knob?

If I have any energy left after mine, erm, nah, who am I kidding that I'd have energy left, it's tiring enough having to wash the thing :msn-wink:


Well Mr Altruism - I suggest that the VAST majority of the world's population would rather be doing that than what they are doing right now.


User.


:devil2:

Touche.

Program.

[Madness]

Why does it not surprise me you like blokes :psst:

That's rich coming from a cunt that owns a Honduh. Sorry to disappoint but I think about vaginas at least 267 times a day, minimum.

[Winston001]

More to the point, how do people manage office work? I'd go fookin' mad being stuck in an office

Used to think that too. However an office is just a room connected to other rooms in which you do your stuff. There are other people around to mingle with. If you are busy then your work occupies your mind in high gear and you don't take any notice of where you are.

Besides guys like us know the road is out there.

Much as I love the outdoors there have been many many days over the past 30 years when I've glanced at the wind and rain outside or the white frost everywhere and been glad to work in an office (old-school decrepit that it was). :D

[mashman]

Much as I love the outdoors there have been many many days over the past 30 years when I've glanced at the wind and rain outside or the white frost everywhere and been glad to work in an office (old-school decrepit that it was). :D

I kinda miss it... sorts the men from the boys.

[Winston001]

If the paycheck stops at 5 it's not work anymore, it's brown nosing.




Fair enough and at one time I'd have agreed with you. However in real life if you want to develop a career, gain experience and earn the respect of clients plus those you work with, putting in whatever hours are necessary is the key.

If you do that when you are young and have the stamina evetually the day will come when you can change course and make your own rules.

FYI young lawyers and accountants who knock off at 5 are regarded as part-time...and find they are no longer needed. Its detestable, it's unwritten, but it is understood. Young management types are regarded the same.

[Winston001]

Incidentally, working long hours and going to social functions is not brown-nosing. That is how you learn, that is how you gain experience, that is how you broaden your horizons. But yeah, it can reverse and dissolve into booze and bad decisions which is probably what most of us are thinking of.

Damned if I know. Never liked the schmoozing.

[Berries]

Ah sorry, thought the title said topless.