MNZ and the internet

[Billy]

Okay so,

Its become apparent that some of the members of MNZ are unable to communicate through the channels we provide for them,I have spoken to the office this morning about setting up a competitors only forum,The plan is to use the domain I purchased last year www.nzsbk.co.nz and you will need to use your mnz log in to get access and it will be restricted to mnz roadrace members only,At this stage I am looking for a volunteer to help me set up the page and get it up and running asap,Once its set up we will look at having individual sections for each National class and a general discussion forum,Is anybody able too help???

[MarcusWyatt]

I'd be able to help you setup the forum. Let me know when you'd like to start getting things sorted.

[scott411]

some of MNZ have been very anty the Internet, and forum sites, some of thier reason's are fair, and some not,

this forum has continued and grown because it is moderated well, you can get stuff removed if you need, and they do not let poeple use multipule logins, sometimes things have to be deleted, and what the biggles thread had turned into was one of those times,

to get the MNZ one sucessfull you will have to do the same, but over moderate and people will not bother to come if you are going to censor them to much, you have to get people to go their and the other parts of KB bring poeple here, under moderate and it will make this place look calm,

What is the problem you have with things being discussed here? (you use this forum to promote the stuff you want, and eve to promote this new website) it does not seem to bad for me, is it the fact that MNZ want to censor or moderate discussion more?

[nodrog]

So a member posts his retarded opinions on the internets which starts a discussion, and somehow that is taken as not comunicating properly and mnz now need kim dotcom to run a website for them? Fucksakes, over react much?

What would happen if it wasnt an mnz member?
What would happen if he went on tv, would mnz start their own channel?
When are you getting face book shut down.
Is markarse going to have his tongue cut out by mnz?

Honestly, there are far better ways to spend everybodies mnz membership, like putting it in a bucket and setting fire too it.

[Billy]

I'd be able to help you setup the forum. Let me know when you'd like to start getting things sorted.

All good mate,Will contact you by PM to discuss further.

[Billy]

some of MNZ have been very anty the Internet, and forum sites, some of thier reason's are fair, and some not,

this forum has continued and grown because it is moderated well, you can get stuff removed if you need, and they do not let poeple use multipule logins, sometimes things have to be deleted, and what the biggles thread had turned into was one of those times,

to get the MNZ one sucessfull you will have to do the same, but over moderate and people will not bother to come if you are going to censor them to much, you have to get people to go their and the other parts of KB bring poeple here, under moderate and it will make this place look calm,

What is the problem you have with things being discussed here? (you use this forum to promote the stuff you want, and eve to promote this new website) it does not seem to bad for me, is it the fact that MNZ want to censor or moderate discussion more?

Some good points there Scott,But I would rather the discussion was kept with in the sport itself,

As roadrace commissioner I am trying to change the way we come to decisions involving the rules for Championship classes etc and I'm really only interested in information from those within the sport as they are the ones who put their money where their mouths are so to speak,Others from outside the sport can continue posting in these forums if they so require,

I would have thought you of all people would have understood the legal implications of discussing some of the area's surrounding safety etc in the public arena,At the same time,I would like to think they could have their say on such issues and if we set up a members only forum some of the more legal sensitive stuff can be openly discussed amongst those who it will most affect.

Yes I know MNZ have been hard to deal with in some areas in the past,But I am trying to make it easier to access those who make the decisions so that the sport is run in the fashion desired by the actual competitors,Not Joeblogs on the street.

[Maha]

Pehaps MNZ should stick to what they know and not get caught up in what is said on the fucking internet.
MNZ are starting to look like a joke.......its the INTERNET! nobody cares :baby:

[Billy]

So a member posts his retarded opinions on the internets which starts a discussion, and somehow that is taken as not comunicating properly and mnz now need kim dotcom to run a website for them? Fucksakes, over react much?

What would happen if it wasnt an mnz member?
What would happen if he went on tv, would mnz start their own channel?
When are you getting face book shut down.
Is markarse going to have his tongue cut out by mnz?

Honestly, there are far better ways to spend everybodies mnz membership, like putting it in a bucket and setting fire too it.

Over react much...Seriously?? There has long been a call for a forum for competotors only and in fact if you read through this section you will see Shaun actually tried on a number of occassions to do so,Of course it hasn't worked out because all and sundry think they should have a say and there are some areas that can not be discussed in the public domain for legal reasons,

Spend everybodys MNZ membership on what????

I own the domain name and I pay for it and it does not come out of my membership fee,I have asked for volunteers to help set it up and Marcus Wyatt has offered his services in that area,Once it is up and running,I will maintain as part of my position as roadrace commissioner which is also a volunteer position,So where is the cost?????

Before spouting your mouth off further,I suggest you have a good long talk to Steve or Scrivy about how the organisation runs,They have a good understanding and realise the huge amount of hours put in by huge army of volunteers to keep it all running,On that basis it is better for us to have our own forum so we can discuss the important stuff with those that matter to help move the sport forward.

[scott411]

Billy, I know the reasons you wanted stuff deleted, and i agree with them (and for a few days this week i am glad their is not a forum for MX riders at the moment, or else I would be warning poeple and getting mods to delete stuff as well)

the fact is i use forums a lot, in Motorsport and in other sports i follow,

This place works because alot of poeple come here, yes more than a few are a waste of cyber space, but you do get good discussion in there as well, (facebook is another example of this)

personally i think you are waisting your time getting another forum going, for a few reasons, Shaun and a few others have tried to get forums going but they do not generate the traffic to warrant the expense and time, and dont last, and also I dont think this one is that broke,

you say you want only those in the sport to comment, but there is much more than just the riders to this sport, and when you start drawing lines on who can and can;t comment then it gets hard to stop, i mean you want to hear from competitors, what about the club officals, and then what about the sponsors and supporters, where do you stop drawing lines, I mean the people that pay to watch even deserve to be listened to at times,

edit: i think some of the people that dont get talked to enough is the poeple that have just quit, and find out the reasons why,

[nodrog]

Over react much...Seriously?? There has long been a call for a forum for competotors only and in fact if you read through this section you will see Shaun actually tried on a number of occassions to do so,Of course it hasn't worked out because all and sundry think they should have a say and there are some areas that can not be discussed in the public domain for legal reasons,

Spend everybodys MNZ membership on what????

I own the domain name and I pay for it and it does not come out of my membership fee,I have asked for volunteers to help set it up and Marcus Wyatt has offered his services in that area,Once it is up and running,I will maintain as part of my position as roadrace commissioner which is also a volunteer position,So where is the cost?????

Before spouting your mouth off further,I suggest you have a good long talk to Steve or Scrivy about how the organisation runs,They have a good understanding and realise the huge amount of hours put in by huge army of volunteers to keep it all running,On that basis it is better for us to have our own forum so we can discuss the important stuff with those that matter to help move the sport forward.

Like i have said before, i am mildly retarded but i think i can understand how things work without having to talk to a grown up.

What im trying to get across is, who the fuckis.going to use an mnz forum, where by precident all their posts will be edited/removed if mnz dont agree with them? Thats like the jews thinking its a good idea to spend the night in the oven, even though their chums that went in there last got abit crook.

Time is money and you will just be wasting both.

P.s. If you think this is me spouting my mouth off you havent met me in real life.

[Katman]

P.s. If you think this is me spouting my mouth off you havent met me in real life.

Wanna root?

[Billy]

Like i have said before, i am mildly retarded but i think i can understand how things work without having to talk to a grown up.

What im trying to get across is, who the fuckis.going to use an mnz forum, where by precident all their posts will be edited/removed if mnz dont agree with them? Thats like the jews thinking its a good idea to spend the night in the oven, even though their chums that went in there last got abit crook.

Time is money and you will just be wasting both.

P.s. If you think this is me spouting my mouth off you havent met me in real life.

Nope,

The whole idea to having a closed forum(as much as it can be),Is that it is unaltered/moderated,The whole idea is we get to hear exactly what the competitors think and not the crazies off the street as such,I'm sure there are a number of competitors that don't agree with a whole bunch we do and I as roadrace commissioner can't do my job to is max if I don't have all the relevant info,So far as wasting my time and money,You don't have to go far up the page too see the sort of claptrap I wouldnt need to sift through in a closed forum and according to some,I'm already wasting both,S o on that basis I should probably resign my post immediately?

[Billy]

Billy, I know the reasons you wanted stuff deleted, and i agree with them (and for a few days this week i am glad their is not a forum for MX riders at the moment, or else I would be warning poeple and getting mods to delete stuff as well)

the fact is i use forums a lot, in Motorsport and in other sports i follow,

This place works because alot of poeple come here, yes more than a few are a waste of cyber space, but you do get good discussion in there as well, (facebook is another example of this)

personally i think you are waisting your time getting another forum going, for a few reasons, Shaun and a few others have tried to get forums going but they do not generate the traffic to warrant the expense and time, and dont last, and also I dont think this one is that broke,

you say you want only those in the sport to comment, but there is much more than just the riders to this sport, and when you start drawing lines on who can and can;t comment then it gets hard to stop, i mean you want to hear from competitors, what about the club officals, and then what about the sponsors and supporters, where do you stop drawing lines, I mean the people that pay to watch even deserve to be listened to at times,

edit: i think some of the people that dont get talked to enough is the poeple that have just quit, and find out the reasons why,

Yip understand your point re the MIA etc,But the lines of communication are already open and I have yet to fail to answer any request or suggestion from any of those involved,In fact I can categorically state the reverse is true,

Nope what I am talking about here is a riders only forum(or swingers if your a sidecar competitor)

[nodrog]

Nope,

The whole idea to having a closed forum(as much as it can be),Is that it is unaltered/moderated,The whole idea is we get to hear exactly what the competitors think and not the crazies off the street as such,I'm sure there are a number of competitors that don't agree with a whole bunch we do and I as roadrace commissioner can't do my job to is max if I don't have all the relevant info,So far as wasting my time and money,You don't have to go far up the page too see the sort of claptrap I wouldnt need to sift through in a closed forum and according to some,I'm already wasting both,S o on that basis I should probably resign my post immediately?

Choice, can we have beers and a barbie on your last day, or will it be devonshire tea and pastries?

[nodrog]

Wanna root?

Always.......

[SWERVE]

Once again...as i stated in my thread. People dont want to discuss the "issues" with like minded individuals to find solutions and resolve.
They want an inuendo soaked - back stabbing - clusterfuck free for all on the public web........ modern day entertainment for the masses.
i applaude you and youe efforts....... but i would say that cos i have got things changed in the past (using the proper channels)

[slowpoke]

Great intitiative!

Disregarding any recent conflagration there are potentially so many upsides to this. Info like the 250 side stand switch and sidestand bracket, mobil 98, noise etc etc can be instantly passed on. It can be a one stop shop for entry forms, results, technical and rule clarification, contacts for clubs, discussion from those doing it rather than clouded by those who just want to talk about it etc etc.

Not all of us have been in the game for 20 years, know everyone and everything, or have conduits to the purple circle, so as far as I'm concerned there is some great potential with this initiative.

Credit where credit is due: well done Billy/MNZ.

[Billy]

Choice, can we have beers and a barbie on your last day, or will it be devonshire tea and pastries?

Na,Its gotta be beers and a barbie,Oh and as long as your shouting,Can we have strippers from hooters???????I REALLY like titties and everybody has too bring a sharp object with them so we can poke and prod the lucky person that replaces me for atleast 18 hours so he knows what every day is going to be like for from then on :banana::banana::banana:

[Billy]

Great intitiative!

Disregarding any recent conflagration there are potentially so many upsides to this. Info like the 250 side stand switch and sidestand bracket, mobil 98, noise etc etc can be instantly passed on. It can be a one stop shop for entry forms, results, technical and rule clarification, contacts for clubs, discussion from those doing it rather than clouded by those who just want to talk about it etc etc.

Not all of us have been in the game for 20 years, know everyone and everything, or have conduits to the purple circle, so as far as I'm concerned there is some great potential with this initiative.

Credit where credit is due: well done Billy/MNZ.

Thanks for supporting this and same with Merv,Although to be fair,I always knew it would be something you'd agree with,Sorry for not replying to your PM last night but was kinda busy sorting out permits etc

[nodrog]

Na,Its gotta be beers and a barbie,Oh and as long as your shouting,Can we have strippers from hooters???????I REALLY like titties and everybody has too bring a sharp object with them so we can poke and prod the lucky person that replaces me for atleast 18 hours so he knows what every day is going to be like for from then on :banana::banana::banana:

I will see if i can get marcus to jump out of a cake for you, but i cant promise anything.

[Billy]

I will see if i can get marcus to jump out of a cake for you, but i cant promise anything.

Cake!!!!Nobody mentioned cake,I thought it was gonna be some sort of a tank or armoured car he was coming,Been waiting and waiting,But guess what?No show...Go figure

[RobGassit]

:tugger:
Once again...as i stated in my thread. People dont want to discuss the "issues" with like minded individuals to find solutions and resolve.
They want an inuendo soaked - back stabbing - clusterfuck free for all on the public web........ modern day entertainment for the masses.
i applaude you and youe efforts....... but i would say that cos i have got things changed in the past (using the proper channels)
:tugger:

[Jantar]

The whole idea to having a closed forum(as much as it can be),Is that it is unaltered/moderated,....

The other great advantage of a closed forum is that ex-competition riders are also closed out. This has the twin advantage of preventing them from commenting on issues from 40 years ago that have once again come to the fore. It also prevents them from reading about modern trends and changes. :rolleyes:

[Billy]

The other great advantage of a closed forum is that ex-competion riders are also closed out. This has the twin advantage of preventing them from commenting on issues from 40 years ago that have once again come to the fore. It also prevents them from reading about modern trends and changes. :rolleyes:

Yes,

A valid point and one that I'm confident we can get around,All those peeps need do is contact me and either I can post their thoughts or allow them access through the office once we've indentified who they are.

[Deano]

Is it ok to post while drunk or should we wait 8 hours.....? :msn-wink:

[Jantar]

This is KB. You must post while drunk for at least 8 hours. :D

[yungatart]

Okay so,

Its become apparent that some of the members of MNZ are unable to communicate through the channels we provide for them,I have spoken to the office this morning about setting up a competitors only forum,The plan is to use the domain I purchased last year www.nzsbk.co.nz and you will need to use your mnz log in to get access and it will be restricted to mnz roadrace members only,At this stage I am looking for a volunteer to help me set up the page and get it up and running asap,Once its set up we will look at having individual sections for each National class and a general discussion forum,Is anybody able too help???

But...but...but...then I can't have a say :(

[CHOPPA]

Thanks for supporting this and same with Merv,Although to be fair,I always knew it would be something you'd agree with,Sorry for not replying to your PM last night but was kinda busy sorting out permits etc

Sounds like a bloody good idea to me too

[Billy]

But...but...but...then I can't have a say :(

YEAH RIGHT!!! Like anybody's EVER gonna stop you from having your say:bleh:

[sugilite]

Billy, Your wanting to increase communication between MNZ members and harness the power of the internet is admirable and to be commended. No point sugar coating it, so as others have mentioned, starting a forum is the easy part, giving people a compelling reason to visit and more importantly return on a regular basis to keep keep abreast of the topics with it having such a narrow focus will be extremely challenging to say the least. The only way I can think of "maybe" generating enough interest would be to utilize the members email database I assume exists and mail out forum topical updates and run regular-ish polls (whether they joined your forum or not). IMHO and having 17 years of being on all sorts of forums, and starting and running a few myself I'd say you will struggle to gain and keep traction. Apathy is a sad but real fact and a forum killer. KB success is largely due to having such a broad range of topics within motorcycling. Sure there are successful narrow focus group forums, but look at them closer and you will find a lot like KB, there is a hell of a lot of off topic mish mash propping it up. I'm guessing loads of off topic material is not what your seeking for bettering MNZ processes and so on. For sure to my mind KB is not the best place to discuss MNZ protocol changes on an official basis, but maybe could considered as a way of generating topic threads and stimulating your MNZ one. Just for the record, I would open it up to past members and others like dealers, track officials etc, it's not hard to ban arseholes if need be. Good on you for taking the initiative and all the best of luck with it.

[Deano]

Make sure it isn't anonymous. People are less likely to act like cocks.

[scrivy]

Guys and Gals........

Most of you are aware that I will always stand up for the underdog, or in my opinion those that are unfairly treated.
Has that meant I have come to loggerheads with MNZ?? Absofuckenlutely, most well documented!!

But................ from what I can see looming in the motorcycle scene in the near future, I seriously think we need to have more dialogue with MNZ regarding the issues that us racers have.

I can see us losing street circuits, and I can also see us losing Pukekohe. What will be after that?? I mean, Taupo and Hampers are both cash strapped. How many places are there going to be left for us all to have our fun on, to use the equipment we have massively invested in?

I am not sure about it being run by 'MNZ', as others have given good reasons for and against it, but after speaking to Billy the other night, I do know he is spending a truck (and trailer) load of his time to help us out, for the betterment of us all. How many others will put their hand up to take ownership?? Im guessing none....

Not allowing past racers, or crew, stewards, sponsors etc to remark is possibly not the best either.
BUT....... if it is a closed forum, then who cares if 'sensitive' remarks or comments are made? General public cannot access it. So they do not get to see us in a negative light.

Alot of up to the minute relevant info can be discussed with input from us all. Is that a bad thing??

Errr...... and no, I'm not sucking Billys dick........

For common sense and peoples safety we have to get shit sorted.

[scrivy]

To keep people interested, they could always add links to new pornsites......................:lol::clap:

I'd keep coming for a 'Look'......

[scrivy]

Make sure it isn't anonymous. People are less likely to act like cocks.

Shouldn't be any other way.

[Kiwi Graham]

Shane could probably answer this but couldn't there be a restricted access area here on KB?
For example access gained via MNZ reg No's

[tail_end_charlie]

Guys and Gals........

Most of you are aware that I will always stand up for the underdog, or in my opinion those that are unfairly treated.
Has that meant I have come to loggerheads with MNZ?? Absofuckenlutely, most well documented!!

But................ from what I can see looming in the motorcycle scene in the near future, I seriously think we need to have more dialogue with MNZ regarding the issues that us racers have.

I can see us losing street circuits, and I can also see us losing Pukekohe. What will be after that?? I mean, Taupo and Hampers are both cash strapped. How many places are there going to be left for us all to have our fun on, to use the equipment we have massively invested in?

I am not sure about it being run by 'MNZ', as others have given good reasons for and against it, but after speaking to Billy the other night, I do know he is spending a truck (and trailer) load of his time to help us out, for the betterment of us all. How many others will put their hand up to take ownership?? Im guessing none....

Not allowing past racers, or crew, stewards, sponsors etc to remark is possibly not the best either.
BUT....... if it is a closed forum, then who cares if 'sensitive' remarks or comments are made? General public cannot access it. So they do not get to see us in a negative light.

Alot of up to the minute relevant info can be discussed with input from us all. Is that a bad thing??

Errr...... and no, I'm not sucking Billys dick........

For common sense and peoples safety we have to get shit sorted.

Holy Shit! Did scrivy just post something serious??? Surely that can't happen too often. :whistle:


To keep people interested, they could always add links to new pornsites......................:lol::clap:

I'd keep coming for a 'Look'......

Thats more like it........ :facepalm:

[RobGassit]

Holy Shit! Did scrivy just post something serious??? Surely that can't happen too often. :whistle:



Thats more like it........ :facepalm:

He obviously left his computer unattended, and a girl scout tapped out a few replies while he was entertaining the other one with his etchings..

[Dave-]

This is how it should work (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/151817-Online-sign-ups-and-the-new-MNZ-website?highlight=website)

not yet-another-shitty-forum-that-no-one-will-use

[tail_end_charlie]

Just to throw in my .02 cents here...

I have found KB to be very helpful from the standpoint of someone who is looking at getting into racing (once you filter through the 50% that is bs and trolling). There is a huge base of knowledge here that is easily accessed and very helpful to avoid some pitfalls if newbie's are willing to take advantage of it. I understand the reasons for wanting to have a seperate restricted access forum so that issues can be discussed between the actual competiters, officals, MNZ, ect, but I have a feeling that it would be difficult to get the kind of participation on that forum that you have here.

I don't really have any good idea's on how to help with the situation either though, and I'm sure there are plenty of people with way more expierence that will be able to come up with something. I'll follow this with interest, but I dont' think I'll have much to add for now.

[RobGassit]

Does anyone remember Commi's Corner?

[Genestho]

I can totally see the point, smart idea Billy! Some of the conversations here I feel harm the sport in terms of the bigger picture, Sponsorship.
Keep KB for the razzing, that's the fun stuff! :eek:

At least the whole interweb world won't be privy and able to access the "sensitive" stuff?

I doubt MNZ are going be critical of sensitive racing related topics discussed in a closed off forum, as opposed to a easily accessed - open to anyone - don't even need to sign up to read - public forum.

EDIT: And perhaps link a profile to the MNZ license? So everybody is open and there's no chance of anonymity.

[slowpoke]

Some (much!) distance from KB is a good thing. The list of good people who have gotten the shits with, or shunned this joint entirely for some of the toxic crap going on is looooooooooong. A fresh start with personal visibility sounds good to me.

[Robert Taylor]

Over react much...Seriously?? There has long been a call for a forum for competotors only and in fact if you read through this section you will see Shaun actually tried on a number of occassions to do so,Of course it hasn't worked out because all and sundry think they should have a say and there are some areas that can not be discussed in the public domain for legal reasons,

Spend everybodys MNZ membership on what????

I own the domain name and I pay for it and it does not come out of my membership fee,I have asked for volunteers to help set it up and Marcus Wyatt has offered his services in that area,Once it is up and running,I will maintain as part of my position as roadrace commissioner which is also a volunteer position,So where is the cost?????

Before spouting your mouth off further,I suggest you have a good long talk to Steve or Scrivy about how the organisation runs,They have a good understanding and realise the huge amount of hours put in by huge army of volunteers to keep it all running,On that basis it is better for us to have our own forum so we can discuss the important stuff with those that matter to help move the sport forward.

Such a forum also needs to have the members name. Its amazing what people say when they hide behind a forum name, stuff that often they wouldnt have the intestinal fortitude for if they posted under their actual name

[jellywrestler]

I will see if i can get marcus to jump out of a cake for you, but i cant promise anything.

i once met a Bulimic Stripper, the cake jumped out of her!

[jellywrestler]

Cake!!!!Nobody mentioned cake,


To keep people interested, they could always add links to new pornsites

http://www.cakefarts.com/



two for the price of one....

[scrivy]

Holy Shit! Did scrivy just post something serious??? Surely that can't happen too often. :whistle:

Thats more like it........ :facepalm:
Heh heh heh............ Cunt! Remove this thread now............ LOL!!:lol:



He obviously left his computer unattended, and a girl scout tapped out a few replies while he was entertaining the other one with his etchings..

She earned a merit badge for playing with magnifying glasses.............:(

[SWERVE]

I can totally see the point, smart idea Billy! Some of the conversations here I feel harm the sport in terms of the bigger picture, Sponsorship.
Keep KB for the razzing, that's the fun stuff! :eek:

At least the whole interweb world won't be privy and able to access the "sensitive" stuff?

I doubt MNZ are going be critical of sensitive racing related topics discussed in a closed off forum, as opposed to a easily accessed - open to anyone - don't even need to sign up to read - public forum.

EDIT: And perhaps link a profile to the MNZ license? So everybody is open and there's no chance of anonymity.

well said that man +1

[Billy]

well said that man +1

Ummm,I think you mean Lady,You remember what they are ..........don't you?

[suzuki21]

Im an ex mnz licence holder so therefore what say should I have now? NONE! I am not a current member, I have an opinion on most things but I shouldnt be allowed a say on what happens on the track or about rules. People that dribble about "I know what is good for the sport" may not even race or have been in that environment so I back Billy. Public people should have a say? REALLY? They have no idea.

[SWERVE]

Ummm,I think you mean Lady,You remember what they are ..........don't you?

Apologies to the party concerned........ didnt check the profile , just agreed with the post.... assumed it was a male poster.
So difficult to know the gender of people these days with anonimity of the net............ even have a problem face to face sometimes:(
more beer.... oh shit did i mention alcohol:bleh:
Vagely remember about them "female types" ..... but racin takes up to much time!

RE - QUOTE Well said that lady..+1

[Genestho]

well said that man +1
How did you know I didn't shave my legs today? Hmm? :D


Ummm,I think you mean Lady,You remember what they are ..........don't you?
HAH! Billy, you called me a Lady!? :love::niceone: (Cheque's in the mail) Hehe


Apologies to the party concerned........ didnt check the profile , just agreed with the post.... assumed it was a male poster.
So difficult to know the gender of people these days with anonimity of the net............ even have a problem face to face sometimes:(
more beer.... oh shit did i mention alcohol:bleh:
Vagely remember about them "female types" ..... but racin takes up to much time!

RE - QUOTE Well said that lady..+1
*Curtsey* No offence taken, I'm ok with my masculine side.... :lol:

[scracha]

Billy, I agree that a closed MNZ members forum is actually good idea. However, admin, getting folk to signup and "traction" is a first class PITA (especially the first item on that list). Many of us have been there, done that.

Why reinvent the wheel?
How about asking MentalTroosers to create a closed subforum on Kiwibitcher that a few MNZ member(s) can moderate
OR
Do similar with farcebook (generally has the advantage of real names etc too).

The anti Intertwebber old farts can keep using ye olde telephone and postal system if they wish to spend more time and money than necessary.

Also, how you gonna correlate who's a current MNZ member (and who's roadracing) without some sort of interaction with the MNZ secretary or online database?

Last but not least, you need to ensure that valid outcomes are made public if it's a closed forum. Dont' want it to end up as some old boys club where everyone who's not in it is left in the dark. Say what you like about Kiwibiker but it's openness has got a hell of a lot of people into racing, asking questions and finding out about events and rules that they'd otherwise be in the dark about.

[Skunk]

I'm with Billy on this. We do need a place to discuss things that may be legally sensitive or have far ranging negative impact on the sport as a whole. My understanding is the forum can be opened to anyone - ex-racer/organiser/whatever but the first method of getting in would be MNZ licence.


http://www.cakefarts.com/
Thanks Spyda - being looking for that... Best you don't ask.

[jellywrestler]

Thanks Spyda - being looking for that... Best you don't ask.
just be careful you dont get cake in between you keys...

[Billy]

Billy, I agree that a closed MNZ members forum is actually good idea. However, admin, getting folk to signup and "traction" is a first class PITA (especially the first item on that list). Many of us have been there, done that.

Why reinvent the wheel?
How about asking MentalTroosers to create a closed subforum on Kiwibitcher that a few MNZ member(s) can moderate
OR
Do similar with farcebook (generally has the advantage of real names etc too).

The anti Intertwebber old farts can keep using ye olde telephone and postal system if they wish to spend more time and money than necessary.

Also, how you gonna correlate who's a current MNZ member (and who's roadracing) without some sort of interaction with the MNZ secretary or online database?

Last but not least, you need to ensure that valid outcomes are made public if it's a closed forum. Dont' want it to end up as some old boys club where everyone who's not in it is left in the dark. Say what you like about Kiwibiker but it's openness has got a hell of a lot of people into racing, asking questions and finding out about events and rules that they'd otherwise be in the dark about.

Yip,

Ive had a brief chat with MT today and am awaiting an email from him with further info and the office were the first peeps I spoke to,to see how we can set it up,There appears to be little problem there,Have spoken also with the big kahuna as well and he is all good with it provided it is operated outside of the general office duties you guys pay them to do.

Nope I think we need a secure forum where we can discuss sensitive stuff with out prejudice and there is still always going to be KB for other racing type chat,Although I do have way bigger plans for the site in the future,Which would include pages that were open to the general public with all sorts of other info like events etc,

At the moment though the focus is on getting the secure forum operating as soon as is practical,April 30 is deadline for proposed rulechanges to be on the website for submissions,A lot of work has to be done before then .

[Mental Trousers]

Shane could probably answer this but couldn't there be a restricted access area here on KB?
For example access gained via MNZ reg No's

That's easy enough to do.

However, the problem isn't the technical stuff. MNZ is an organisation that cannot be seen to be associated with the utter shit that goes on on a site like KB. Having a private sub-forum on here you then run into problems with people saying I saw the MNZ guy tell everyone <insert something sensitive> on KB when in fact it wasn't in the general forums but the private, hidden sub-forum.

Anything like an MNZ forum would have to be on a completely separate site, if only to avoid any sort of legal complications.

As for traffic to an MNZ forum it isn't as critical how often people post on there. As long as it serves it's function, ie to inform members and discuss various issues, then it won't suffer the fate of most motorbike forums. The trick is to make sure the members know when there is something there without spamming them every other day and that they all have access.

[lostinflyz]

surely a free and open discussion is the only discussion that's useful. The easier it is to find information the more likely it is to be known by all. Hide away behind barriers and no one will know what you want them to know and you will have no idea what you need to know. Most senior officials seem to be prominent members of most modern communication forums, apps, facebooks ect. but there seems to be a massive reluctance to use these to disseminate information and prompt discussion, bar announcing how rubbish we all are at knowing rulebooks and having decent discussions like this one. Adding new sites, forums or communication tools will only ever make information and discussion more closed, and therefore useless.

I have no idea where the whole legal ramification nonsense comes from. Not a single person on here voices an official opinion from MNZ as far as i am aware. Appreciate there are sensitive issues, but even these require robust conversation, the likes of which can sometimes be uncomfortable, but none the less are still immensely important discussions to have in a open environment.

[scracha]

Nope I think we need a secure forum where we can discuss sensitive stuff with out prejudice and there is still always going to be KB for other racing type chat,Although I do have way bigger plans for the site in the future,Which would include pages that were open to the general public with all sorts of other info like events etc,


Then a private "MNZ Racers" Facebook group is far and away your best option Billy. Until (if) google+ gets a critical mass then Facebook's got the best tools (has integration with PC's, TV's, tablets and moby phones...even older ones), is super easy to manage and is most likely to get MNZ racers using and discussing stuff on it. Because many are likely to be already using Facebook they don't have to fark about registering on yet another site. You also can wash your hands of most of the admin, forgotten passwords, legal, anti-hacking, site update stuff, etc

https://www.facebook.com/about/groups/

[Skunk]

I have no idea where the whole legal ramification nonsense comes from. Not a single person on here voices an official opinion from MNZ as far as i am aware. Appreciate there are sensitive issues, but even these require robust conversation, the likes of which can sometimes be uncomfortable, but none the less are still immensely important discussions to have in a open environment.The best example I have is one we had at Vic Club. We used to run long track at Manfeild. Someone made a very public statement that it was unsafe and the only solution was an airfence. Once that statement was made Vic Club must run an airfence just in case someone crashes. Otherwise Vic Club faces very serious questions about whether it took 'due care'. Financially it's the end of long track at Manfeild.
Had that been done in a private discussion it could have been discussed. The same concussion may have been the result; but there could have been discussion.

Next issue is the 'dirty laundry' side of things. We don't wish to look like we're a bunch of dysfunctional idiots (even if we are) to sponsors and public. We can deal with issues, complaints and suggestions openly with each other without putting any public off.

Remember, this is a PUBLIC forum. You don't have to log in to read it. It's searchable on the internet. That to me is NOT the way to discuss organisational matters. I don't know of any organisation that does. Even clubs have Committee meetings that members can attend. They don't tend to have them in the local Mall...

If you want input into MNZ and won't use the proper channels something else needs to be done; and what Sir Billy is looking at seems a good idea.

[Dave-]

Having slept (well) on this, I think it's a good idea, you'll just need to make sure an old boys culture doesn't form.

+1 Billy it's a step in the right direction.

[nodrog]

Y
Then a private "MNZ Racers" Facebook group is far and away your best option Billy. Until (if) google+ gets a critical mass then Facebook's got the best tools (has integration with PC's, TV's, tablets and moby phones...even older ones), is super easy to manage and is most likely to get MNZ racers using and discussing stuff on it. Because many are likely to be already using Facebook they don't have to fark about registering on yet another site. You also can wash your hands of most of the admin, forgotten passwords, legal, anti-hacking, site update stuff, etc

https://www.facebook.com/about/groups/

Fucksake, now i have to join facebook, this shits getting out of control.

Um back to the root cause of all this drama- what is stopping some knob jockey copyong and pasting something from the secret squirrel site and posting it on a public forum, emailing their mates, sending it into the womens weekly? Csusing exactly the same problems you are trying to avoid?

Will we have to call you Billy Dotcom?

[Genestho]

The best example I have is one we had at Vic Club. We used to run long track at Manfeild. Someone made a very public statement that it was unsafe and the only solution was an airfence. Once that statement was made Vic Club must run an airfence just in case someone crashes. Otherwise Vic Club faces very serious questions about whether it took 'due care'. Financially it's the end of long track at Manfeild.
Had that been done in a private discussion it could have been discussed. The same concussion may have been the result; but there could have been discussion.

Next issue is the 'dirty laundry' side of things. We don't wish to look like we're a bunch of dysfunctional idiots (even if we are) to sponsors and public. We can deal with issues, complaints and suggestions openly with each other without putting any public off.

Remember, this is a PUBLIC forum. You don't have to log in to read it. It's searchable on the internet. That to me is NOT the way to discuss organisational matters. I don't know of any organisation that does. Even clubs have Committee meetings that members can attend. They don't tend to have them in the local Mall...

If you want input into MNZ and won't use the proper channels something else needs to be done; and what Sir Billy is looking at seems a good idea.

Precisely.
If individuals, collectives, clubs and event organisers are to seek Sponsorship and attempt to look outside of the Industry into the corporate world (which is a really good idea so there's far less conflicts of interest and more room to breathe for all)
It would be very difficult to present a professional package based on public KB Racing discussions, for some that don't seek sponsorship to pay the bills it doesn't matter but! face it, surely at least 80% are. And then you have event sponsorship, why would "I" (Collective) inject 10k into an event where people act unprofessional in public forums?

There's no other "professional" sport in the country with publically available discussion forums. For good reason - Brand wreckage.

KB is a great thing for shooting the breeze, it brings "fans" closer, but the rest really isn't a good look, as a collective or presentable package. IMO.

[scrivy]

what is stopping some knob jockey copyong and pasting something from the secret squirrel site and posting it on a public forum, emailing their mates

That's a serious issue Noddy.
Image how shit could be taken out of context if only 1 piece (or half the info) was pasted somewhere. Would cause an uproar for people not in the know.

[Biggles08]

That's a serious issue Noddy.
Image how shit could be taken out of context if only 1 piece (or half the info) was pasted somewhere. Would cause an uproar for people not in the know.

Another reason why the website needs to be "owned" by MNZ as then they can dictate the terms of accepting entry into the forum, one of which I'd imagine would include a clause of owning the copy-write of all text that is shared on the forum.

Billy and I disagree on many fronts however this idea of a forum designed for MNZ members, or indeed a section of MNZ members (Road Racing) I have long been an advocate for. There are far too many benefits to ignore doing it. Many of you I believe are confusing an 'open forum' with 'a forum designed for open conversation.' Just because you need to be pre-qualified to be a contributor does not mean the conversation cannot be open. I believe in fact the opposite will be the case as we would finally have a place to go, safely without worrying about anonymous abuse or time wasting keyboard wannabes ruining good conversation. I welcome a forum where racers can be open and frank at the issues we face without the crap that normally comes with posting these on an open forum. The recent debacle of the thread I started recently would never had occurred had this type of forum been available.

On this idea, well done Billy.

[nodrog]

Will there be a secret handshake?

Whats stopping me selling my login to the Truth?

[Mental Trousers]

....


....

Nice to see there are some people around here that understand these things.


Having slept (well) on this, I think it's a good idea, you'll just need to make sure an old boys culture doesn't form.

Always a danger with something like a private forum. Usually the best way to sort that out is to have independent Moderators and keep a tight rein on who can do what.

It's an interesting problem.


Um back to the root cause of all this drama- what is stopping some knob jockey copyong and pasting something from the secret squirrel site and posting it on a public forum, emailing their mates, sending it into the womens weekly? Csusing exactly the same problems you are trying to avoid?

I think you'll find that if MNZ own the forum and a member does that they will get slapped with the misconduct and privacy procedures MNZ already have in place. I'd speculate that the person doing so would run the risk of permanently losing their competition licence as well as criminal proceedings.

Don't know anyone that's willing to sacrifice their competition licence.

[nodrog]

Nice to see there are some people around here that understand these things.



Always a danger with something like a private forum. Usually the best way to sort that out is to have independent Moderators and keep a tight rein on who can do what.

It's an interesting problem.



I think you'll find that if MNZ own the forum and a member does that they will get slapped with the misconduct and privacy procedures MNZ already have in place. I'd speculate that the person doing so would run the risk of permanently losing their competition licence as well as criminal proceedings.

Don't know anyone that's willing to sacrifice their competition licence.

But who would know where it came from? Apparently you can be confidential on the internet.

[Mental Trousers]

But who would know where it came from? Apparently you can be confidential on the internet.

You're asking a question about something that has to happen before it can be answered.

If it's serious enough then I'm sure skilled, professional investigators would be involved.

[sidecar bob]

Will there be a secret handshake?


Not sure, but you can get a cool fluro vest if youre a good boy.
If they have it on facebook I will not be involved, although that probably isint a bad thing for the rest of you.

[scrivy]

I think you'll find that if MNZ own the forum and a member does that they will get slapped with the misconduct and privacy procedures MNZ already have in place. I'd speculate that the person doing so would run the risk of permanently losing their competition licence as well as criminal proceedings.


Whoooaaaaaaa.......

Hang on a minute.........

What is MNZ's 'Privacy' procedure? And where does one find it?

Also, since when is copying and pasting from an uncopyrighted internet site a 'Criminal' offence?


I am a bit hessitant about MNZ running the forum for current racers only, as I believe we do need input from all track users, not just MNZ licensed ones. What about non-MNZ members that race on day/club licenses? Or people that are not in affiliated clubs?? Surely they should be privy to safety information too?
Eg. If there is discussion about a slowing bike being hit by following bikes (and we all know the sad consequences of that), why should a track day rider not have that knowledge readily available to them also? Or even the information sharing about the sidecar brake issue. What if a non MNZ member was to crash (or cause a crash) at a fun/test/trackday without any knowledge of relevant information from a discussion??
With the topic in the thread that was deleted, what if that happened at a track day? The ramifications would be huge to all track users.

I personally believe (to be said as Miss America...), that all track users need input, afterall, the results from this new forum will affect all track users.
Safety first - with all track users input.

Or have I missed something?

Scrivy

[Mental Trousers]

What is MNZ's 'Privacy' procedure? And where does one find it?

You're making the same mistake as most others - wanting to make an issue of something instead of finding out the facts.

Ask the correct people and they'll tell you whether there is or isn't a privacy policy. I don't know if there is cos I can't recall everything we're meant to have read (constitution, code of conduct, legal stuff etc) off the top of my head.

[scrivy]

You're making the same mistake as most others - wanting to make an issue of something instead of finding out the facts.

Ask the correct people and they'll tell you whether there is or isn't a privacy policy. I don't know if there is cos I can't recall everything we're meant to have read (constitution, code of conduct, legal stuff etc) off the top of my head.

Not trying to nitpick MT, just stating a fact. I know more about the GCR's and Constitution than most, just don't know anything about a 'Privacy' policy.
Oh, and I have talked to Billy for about an hour over the last 4 days too.
Like I said, not nitpicking, just asking, in case I had missed something.

[lostinflyz]

The best example I have is one we had at Vic Club. We used to run long track at Manfeild. Someone made a very public statement that it was unsafe and the only solution was an airfence. Once that statement was made Vic Club must run an airfence just in case someone crashes. Otherwise Vic Club faces very serious questions about whether it took 'due care'. Financially it's the end of long track at Manfeild.
Had that been done in a private discussion it could have been discussed. The same concussion may have been the result; but there could have been discussion.

Next issue is the 'dirty laundry' side of things. We don't wish to look like we're a bunch of dysfunctional idiots (even if we are) to sponsors and public. We can deal with issues, complaints and suggestions openly with each other without putting any public off.

Remember, this is a PUBLIC forum. You don't have to log in to read it. It's searchable on the internet. That to me is NOT the way to discuss organisational matters. I don't know of any organisation that does. Even clubs have Committee meetings that members can attend. They don't tend to have them in the local Mall...

If you want input into MNZ and won't use the proper channels something else needs to be done; and what Sir Billy is looking at seems a good idea.

The laws of this country actually demand that you take all practicable steps to ensure the safety of the enviroment you create. This is defined not by whether something is said or known, but whether something should have been done. One can always introduce risk so long as you clearly have assessed the risk and mitagated this as practicable as possible. This is regardless or whether the discussion was open or private, or you knew or did not. The questions is always should you have known and did you take reasonable steps to mitigate.

Bike clubs have open committee meeting that all there members can attend, and they the right to speak openly at appropriate times regardless of the member involvement in the club. The MNZ communication tool at the moment seems to be to have all member contact individuals for information that often is not readily and easily available. Surely this is not right, and going to a more controlled enviroment is even worse. Its like going to work and not knowing what your supposed to do, getting told "oh but you should know!" then not being able to go to the managers meeting where they change what your supposed to be doing.

[Billy]

Whoooaaaaaaa.......

Hang on a minute.........

What is MNZ's 'Privacy' procedure? And where does one find it?

Also, since when is copying and pasting from an uncopyrighted internet site a 'Criminal' offence?


I am a bit hessitant about MNZ running the forum for current racers only, as I believe we do need input from all track users, not just MNZ licensed ones. What about non-MNZ members that race on day/club licenses? Or people that are not in affiliated clubs?? Surely they should be privy to safety information too?
Eg. If there is discussion about a slowing bike being hit by following bikes (and we all know the sad consequences of that), why should a track day rider not have that knowledge readily available to them also? Or even the information sharing about the sidecar brake issue. What if a non MNZ member was to crash (or cause a crash) at a fun/test/trackday without any knowledge of relevant information from a discussion??
With the topic in the thread that was deleted, what if that happened at a track day? The ramifications would be huge to all track users.

I personally believe (to be said as Miss America...), that all track users need input, afterall, the results from this new forum will affect all track users.
Safety first - with all track users input.

Or have I missed something?

Scrivy

Yip,

As discussed earlier by phone,Some valid points and clearly there are a lot of issues to sort out,BUT track day riders are not within my jurisdiction and neither are they my concern,I am more interested in hearing good quality,Well thought out feedback and ideas,To be honest,There are very few people that post on this site that I actually take notice of,Pretty much nowadays theres really only yourself and sidecar bob and a handful of others that really understand how MNZ operates or what the organisation actually is,All the movers in the sport understand how to get things done and most,Either don't bother with KB anymore or have visited and can't believe the chestbeating and poppycock that gets spouted on here,Those are the folks I want to get talking with.They are the future of the sport,Pretty sure you can pick the ones from KB that will visit.

Trust me this forum based site will be formed and it will be where most of the decision making for roadracing will be formed outside of the channels I already have of course,For those that just want to have a yarn about racing in general or whatever else there will always be KB

[jellywrestler]

Miss Americammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Miss America

[Drew]

Na,Its gotta be beers and a barbie,Oh and as long as your shouting,Can we have strippers from hooters???????I REALLY like titties and everybody has too bring a sharp object with them so we can poke and prod the lucky person that replaces me for atleast 18 hours so he knows what every day is going to be like for from then on :banana::banana::banana:

I'll take the job. Should be a bit of fun. I'm approachable, friendly, and tolerant.

[scrivy]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Miss America
You got the munchies again............:lol:

[Billy]

I'll take the job. Should be a bit of fun. I'm approachable, friendly, and tolerant.

Call the office first thing Monday and we'll get the ball rolling then

[Kevin G]

The laws of this country actually demand that you take all practicable steps to ensure the safety of the enviroment you create. This is defined not by whether something is said or known, but whether something should have been done. One can always introduce risk so long as you clearly have assessed the risk and mitagated this as practicable as possible. This is regardless or whether the discussion was open or private, or you knew or did not. The questions is always should you have known and did you take reasonable steps to mitigate.

Bike clubs have open committee meeting that all there members can attend, and they the right to speak openly at appropriate times regardless of the member involvement in the club. The MNZ communication tool at the moment seems to be to have all member contact individuals for information that often is not readily and easily available. Surely this is not right, and going to a more controlled enviroment is even worse. Its like going to work and not knowing what your supposed to do, getting told "oh but you should know!" then not being able to go to the managers meeting where they change what your supposed to be doing.

Well now here is the funny thing. MNZ's primary customer that it serves are the MNZ affliated Clubs all over NZ that all MNZ licence holders must be a member of to get said licence. All MNZ communications are sent directly to the clubs, stewards and officials as needed or required (immediately if its urgent). The only direct relationship riders have with MNZ is getting their licence yet it is becoming apparent that the licence holders all want a direct relationship. Go back a few years and the clubs also did the licences. MNZ licence holders are no longer linked in with their clubs and/or their clubs are not communicating with them. How many clubs are sending out the information or adding it to the monthly newsletters? How many licence holders attend their club meetings to hear what is happening and hear or read the correspondence that is sent?

I know this trend of riders not been actively involved with clubs has been happening for a while and its not getting better...in fact its getting worse.

The structure of the whole set up with MNZ serving clubs and the clubs serving the licence holders is how it was designed and how it still operates. Perhaps this is now past its use by date?

Do not get me wrong, I am sure MNZ can improve direct communication but doing this will only serve to increase the drift from the clubs from the licence holders as the need to be connected further reduces. Clubs without the support of active members taking part in running the club, organising events and helping out at events will spell the end of clubs as we know them. GUYS...its the clubs that run the events we all enjoy riding at...NO clubs = No events. So then private individuals will take over running events for profit, not for the love and passion of the sport and motorcycling as the clubs do now.

So how should it be? Does MNZ drive people back to the clubs so the sport and the clubs are better for it????

Very keen to get some constructive views and opinions.....The board sees the trend and is very mindful of what is occurring. The clubs are the sport right now, MNZ is only the administrator....think about it.


Kevin Goddard

[sidecar bob]

All the movers in the sport understand how to get things done and most,Either don't bother with KB anymore or have visited and can't believe the chestbeating and poppycock that gets spouted on here.

Chestbeating?? no, I dont think its the chest that most are beating.
A seperate website is probably a good idea, because to be perfectly honest, certanly I, & obviously many others treat this site as a place to spend five minutes every hour of the working day, winding up some poor unsuspecting fool, or talking absolute arse with our mates to create a bit of personal entertainment & break up an otherwise pretty ordanary days work.

[scrivy]

Clubs without the support of active members taking part in running the club, organising events and helping out at events will spell the end of clubs as we know them. GUYS...its the clubs that run the events we all enjoy riding at...NO clubs = No events. So then private individuals will take over running events for profit, not for the love and passion of the sport and motorcycling as the clubs do now.

Very keen to get some constructive views and opinions.....The board sees the trend and is very mindful of what is occurring. The clubs are the sport right now, MNZ is only the administrator....think about it.


Kevin Goddard

You're right about the clubs. They need all the support they can get. Most racers out there don't get involved with their clubs, and don't put effort into them, but expect them to be there for them when needed! Go figure!
As for private individuals running meetings for profit.... Chris and I ran our TRRS for a loss of up to 10K each year for the benefit of other racers as our way of giving back to the sport that has been so good to us. But even though there are alot of genuine racers out there that want to give back, I doubt many others would run at a loss for anyone. But I don't think too many would run at a substantial profit? Riders just wouldn't turn up if it was overpriced.

[scrivy]

winding up some poor unsuspecting fool, or talking absolute arse with our mates

I dont talk arse.......:rolleyes::bleh:

[Kevin G]

You're right about the clubs. They need all the support they can get. Most racers out there don't get involved with their clubs, and don't put effort into them, but expect them to be there for them when needed! Go figure!
As for private individuals running meetings for profit.... Chris and I ran our TRRS for a loss of up to 10K each year for the benefit of other racers as our way of giving back to the sport that has been so good to us. But even though there are alot of genuine racers out there that want to give back, I doubt many others would run at a loss for anyone. But I don't think too many would run at a substantial profit? Riders just wouldn't turn up if it was overpriced.

Hi.
I applaud you and Chris for being prepared to run a great meeting at such a financial loss just to give a bit back. To me however that would indicate to me that not too many meetings would be run or at least not for long...either loosing money or no one turning up due to the cost both equal the same thing long term...no race meetings. All the more reason that we need our clubs

Kevin Goddard

[scrivy]

Hi.
I applaud you and Chris for being prepared to run a great meeting at such a financial loss just to give a bit back. To me however that would indicate to me that not too many meetings would be run or at least not for long...either loosing money or no one turning up due to the cost both equal the same thing long term...no race meetings. All the more reason that we need our clubs

Kevin Goddard

Absolutely we need our clubs. But more importantly, we need clubs to have motivated, dedicated and enthusiastic members and committies. Too many committee members are overworked because no one else wants to step up to the mark, and take over club duties. Many hands make light work, and only good can come out of more input from its members. Besides, members can learn how all its clubs functions work - which only helps them obtain more info..... and keep informed.
I see too many club committee members very worn out, and too many people are quick to complain about their club, without ever offering their help.
Remember the saying 'Ask not what your............ But what you can do for your club....'

[Skunk]

The laws of this country actually demand that you take all practicable steps to ensure the safety of the enviroment you create. This is defined not by whether something is said or known, but whether something should have been done. One can always introduce risk so long as you clearly have assessed the risk and mitagated this as practicable as possible. This is regardless or whether the discussion was open or private, or you knew or did not. The questions is always should you have known and did you take reasonable steps to mitigate. I didn't make the point clear. There was no discussion as to whether the claim was valid or the steps demanded were reasonable or required. One statement and it was all over. While we can't stop that happening again I'd hope that discussion would take place and a reasoned outcome put in place rather than the clubs being blindsided by something that was not seen as an issue to them. In the example I gave no one had spoken to the club about it.
For clarity: after every meeting a few of us sit down and go over everything that happened and what needs fixing. Safety and procedure are covered. Notes taken.


You're right about the clubs. They need all the support they can get. Most racers out there don't get involved with their clubs, and don't put effort into them, but expect them to be there for them when needed! Go figure!
As for private individuals running meetings for profit.... Vic Club has 48 volunteers to safely run at Manfeild and more at Taupo. We have about 10 Members who volunteer. The rest aren't members. With a club membership of well over 200 that's a pretty poor percentage giving their non-racing time back to the club. This isn't a complaint - it's a statement of fact. We wouldn't be able to run a meeting without MASSIVE support from non members (non racers; in some cases - non riders!). It's a pretty sad picture really.

[scrivy]

Vic Club has 48 volunteers to safely run at Manfeild and more at Taupo. We have about 10 Members who volunteer. The rest aren't members. With a club membership of well over 200 that's a pretty poor percentage giving their non-racing time back to the club. This isn't a complaint - it's a statement of fact. We wouldn't be able to run a meeting without MASSIVE support from non members (non racers; in some cases - non riders!). It's a pretty sad picture really.

Whereas our TRRS had most of the sidecar class helping out for no monetary gain. Giving up their time scrutineering, marshalling, recoverying, organising, cooking, track entry etc etc etc...... Bloody fantastic!

I still reckon every class should have an association of their riders. So that info can be quickly distributed to its members, input speedily received, and any rules or regulations/remits can be thrown around its members for clarification and correct interpretation.

Even the late Robert Holden agreed with me back in '95.

Scrivy

[steveyb]

Chris and I ran our TRRS for a loss of up to 10K each year for the benefit of other racers as our way of giving back to the sport that has been so good to us. But even though there are alot of genuine racers out there that want to give back, I doubt many others would run at a loss for anyone. But I don't think too many would run at a substantial profit? Riders just wouldn't turn up if it was overpriced.

I feel your pain.

Try $70+k over 5 years doing my thing ...... maybe I should shoot myself now and let the pain be gone.....

[steveyb]

Whereas our TRRS had most of the sidecar class helping out for no monetary gain. Giving up their time scrutineering, marshalling, recoverying, organising, cooking, track entry etc etc etc...... Bloody fantastic!

I still reckon every class should have an association of their riders. So that info can be quickly distributed to its members, input speedily received, and any rules or regulations/remits can be thrown around its members for clarification and correct interpretation.


Scrivy

That is how car racing in NZ works. Each 'class' is basically a club of its own with members all over the shop and affiliated to Motorsport NZ. Each class/club petitions event organisers to enter, or are approached by event organisers to participate depending on the fit of that class with the rest of the event.
In that way each class/club knows its own rules pretty well and can deal with changes quickly and with event organisers effectively.

And I think that I am right in that each class needs to effectively scruitineer itself to make sure cars fit the rules. I am peripheral to the Honda Cup class/club and they check their own class, even weighing them themselves as there is a minimum weight allowed for each sub-class within the class.

I guess the pool for volunteers and event runners is much larger for car events than for bikes.

[jellywrestler]

I feel your pain.

Try $70+k over 5 years doing my thing ...... maybe I should shoot myself now and let the pain be gone.....
just get Oscar Pistoriuos as your next rider and then ya sorted

[Billy]

That is how car racing in NZ works. Each 'class' is basically a club of its own with members all over the shop and affiliated to Motorsport NZ. Each class/club petitions event organisers to enter, or are approached by event organisers to participate depending on the fit of that class with the rest of the event.
In that way each class/club knows its own rules pretty well and can deal with changes quickly and with event organisers effectively.

And I think that I am right in that each class needs to effectively scruitineer itself to make sure cars fit the rules. I am peripheral to the Honda Cup class/club and they check their own class, even weighing them themselves as there is a minimum weight allowed for each sub-class within the class.

I guess the pool for volunteers and event runners is much larger for car events than for bikes.

Yip,

An individual class sub commission with a spokesperson that reports back to me with their ideas and needs, Is exactly what I have been speaking to the National level competitors about and I already have people in place for Superbike,600s and 250s,When I finish running around cleaning up this weeks mess,I'll get back to organising people for other classes,That was one of the main reasons I came up with the members only website,So that those that put their money where their mouths are, could help organise their particular class,Of course it would have to be overseen by the commission and the board to ensure their ideas were workable and rules were written so they could be enforced properly,

Who would have thunk it was such a dumb idea????Everybody but me apparently,Go figure!

[RS2000]

a few pages of discussion

[codgyoleracer]

6 pages of discussion? great? we have only had the wheel for about 2 million years, lets re invent a new idea better than the wheel, I guess you guys do care and have passion about the sport, but a little respect would be nice

i am not happy with people talking shit, when they know what has happened

I might join the speedway riders club or the sidecar association cos mnz is almost a political party now? Certainly seem to be censoring what their members read


Tend to agreee,
Personally i like / prefer the idea of a " public forum " like KB - the very name of it invites any party from any angle to participate in a discussion about any matter.

Sure there are a bunch of one-eyed nutters and banjo playing 3 fingered nupties getting their 2 cents worth of comments in as well, but it often takes someone with a differnet angle on life or someone with no political connections to the sport to see the wood for the trees.

The bonus along the way, is that a lot of comments are riddled with good ole fashioned kiwi knocking, short-mans disease sarcastic humour...........

[jellywrestler]

Sure there are a bunch of one-eyed nutters and banjo playing 3 fingered nupties getting their 2 cents worth of comments in as well,

hey, Formula Three/ superlite riders are people too!!!

[Drew]

The bonus along the way, is that a lot of comments are riddled with good ole fashioned kiwi knocking, short-mans disease sarcastic humour...........
You forgot to mention the gingas. Day walkers sometimes post here too.

I think a lot of the problem with the form being open, is all the dribble that gets said because of no accountability. Few people on here are willing to say what they really think, and then follow it up with their name.

Real names and licence numbers would make people take it more seriously...prolly not me though.

[codgyoleracer]

hey, Formula Three/ superlite riders are people too!!!

Are you mad ?, who wants to listen to those tossers :-)

[shoutout]

The structure of the whole set up with MNZ serving clubs and the clubs serving the licence holders is how it was designed and how it still operates. Perhaps this is now past its use by date?

Do not get me wrong, I am sure MNZ can improve direct communication but doing this will only serve to increase the drift from the clubs from the licence holders as the need to be connected further reduces. Clubs without the support of active members taking part in running the club, organising events and helping out at events will spell the end of clubs as we know them. GUYS...its the clubs that run the events we all enjoy riding at...NO clubs = No events. So then private individuals will take over running events for profit, not for the love and passion of the sport and motorcycling as the clubs do now.

So how should it be? Does MNZ drive people back to the clubs so the sport and the clubs are better for it????

Very keen to get some constructive views and opinions.....The board sees the trend and is very mindful of what is occurring. The clubs are the sport right now, MNZ is only the administrator....think about it.


Kevin Goddard

Hi

My 2cent, i have been involved in our sport from 2009, bought a road bike, rode around thinking shit this is great, had a friend invite me to a track day and bought a track bike fallowing month. Down to track and ride very slowly, but the members of our sport where and are still very supportive. I joined my local club and have been a committee member since 2010 trying to give back and grow our sport.
I was one of the team members who helped run one of the National rounds, and just loved it, i was so thrilled to see ideas develop for the benefit of our national riders, and separators.
I'm still a committee member and now putting together a true Supermoto track at Ruapuna, my business partner and i have invested 100 of hours each and thousands of dollars to get this off the ground and to date no profit and will be no profit for a while, WHY.. we are passionate about our sport we believe" build a track and they will come " but also we realize that having a track is not the be all. We are trying to promote our sport for the spectators, we wont survive if we don't plan to support our sponsors, and make it a show, hence all dirt section down at A track not B track, this is where the spectators stand ,sit have a picnic. If we get the crowds to watch and support, we get more sponsors, we provide a show, we entertain.
Yes love racing and we will have some of the best in the world GP circuit riders coming to support us, goal is to put on a event that will be a big show like bringing the circus to town, if we get the spectators we want, we make a profit, we don't make a profit from riders just do the maths, but they do help support our goal.
My club is helping me get a MNZ permit (thank you ) and i love this sport and putting my BALLS on the line to grow our sport and make a profit.

Win Win for us all

Cheers Dean James Shoutout Events

[Billy]

You forgot to mention the gingas. Day walkers sometimes post here too.

I think a lot of the problem with the form being open, is all the dribble that gets said because of no accountability. Few people on here are willing to say what they really think, and then follow it up with their name.

Real names and licence numbers would make people take it more seriously...prolly not me though.

Now that right there is why you'd be a useless Roadrace commissioner,You have correlated ALL the facts and know exactly what this is about,MOST on here just read a couple of posts and form an opinion without having a clue.

Anybody else read the article in the Herald this morning about the police monitoring websites??????
Fits with some of the action taken earlier in the week following a particular thread on this very site,The investigation into Paeroa had some unusual twists we don't normally see and believe me theres plenty more to come with possibly some huge ramifications for roadracing.

Talk about a kneejerk reaction,Nobody is suggesting closing down KB or stopping people from having their say on here,Open discussion so to speak can still be had,But be careful what you say on here from now on if your an MNZ member is all we ask.

[RobGassit]

I'm still a committee member and now putting together a true Supermoto track at Ruapuna, my business partner and i have invested 100 of hours each and thousands of dollars to get this off the ground and to date no profit and will be no profit for a while, WHY.. we are passionate about our sport we believe" build a track and they will come " but also we realize that having a track is not the be all. We are trying to promote our sport for the spectators, we wont survive if we don't plan to support our sponsors, and make it a show, hence all dirt section down at A track not B track, this is where the spectators stand ,sit have a picnic. If we get the crowds to watch and support, we get more sponsors, we provide a show, we entertain.
Yes love racing and we will have some of the best in the world GP circuit riders coming to support us, goal is to put on a event that will be a big show like bringing the circus to town, if we get the spectators we want, we make a profit, we don't make a profit from riders just do the maths, but they do help support our goal.
My club is helping me get a MNZ permit (thank you ) and i love this sport and putting my BALLS on the line to grow our sport and make a profit.

Win Win for us all

Cheers Dean James Shoutout Events


This sounds really exciting. Promoters like yourself are a huge part of the future for Motorcycle Sport in NZ. The likes of the very successful TRI Series, born at Wanganui and the World Speedway at the Springs are the way the world is moving. Events like the Troy Bayliss Classic recently run in OZ could be as successfull here as the Burt Munroe or The Sound of Thunder. I went to see the Nitro Circus tour recently, and the formula for getting bums on seats, and general public bums at that, is working great for them. Motard Racing, like Flat Track, is some of the very best racing you will see anywhere in the world. Well overlooked in my opinion.

[roadracingoldfart]

Billy, I agree that a closed MNZ members forum is actually good idea. However, admin, getting folk to signup and "traction" is a first class PITA (especially the first item on that list). Many of us have been there, done that.

Why reinvent the wheel?
How about asking MentalTroosers to create a closed subforum on Kiwibitcher that a few MNZ member(s) can moderate
OR
Do similar with farcebook (generally has the advantage of real names etc too).

The anti Intertwebber old farts can keep using ye olde telephone and postal system if they wish to spend more time and money than necessary.

Also, how you gonna correlate who's a current MNZ member (and who's roadracing) without some sort of interaction with the MNZ secretary or online database?

Last but not least, you need to ensure that valid outcomes are made public if it's a closed forum. Dont' want it to end up as some old boys club where everyone who's not in it is left in the dark. Say what you like about Kiwibiker but it's openness has got a hell of a lot of people into racing, asking questions and finding out about events and rules that they'd otherwise be in the dark about.

Who the fuck are you calling an Old Fart buddy ???


I'll take the job. Should be a bit of fun. I'm approachable, friendly, and tolerant.

You forgot level headed and portly.


Call the office first thing Monday and we'll get the ball rolling then

Stop taking advantage of Drews vulnerable side.


Tend to agreee,
Sure there are a bunch of one-eyed nutters and banjo playing 3 fingered nupties getting their 2 cents worth of comments in as well, .......

Not everybody in this sport is a Holden driver from Palmy you know .

[Billy]

Not everybody in this sport is a Holden driver from Palmy you know .

Err get it right mate Jag....Waaaaaaa driver from Palmy

[slowpoke]

Well now here is the funny thing. MNZ's primary customer that it serves are the MNZ affliated Clubs all over NZ that all MNZ licence holders must be a member of to get said licence. All MNZ communications are sent directly to the clubs, stewards and officials as needed or required (immediately if its urgent). The only direct relationship riders have with MNZ is getting their licence yet it is becoming apparent that the licence holders all want a direct relationship. Go back a few years and the clubs also did the licences. MNZ licence holders are no longer linked in with their clubs and/or their clubs are not communicating with them. How many clubs are sending out the information or adding it to the monthly newsletters? How many licence holders attend their club meetings to hear what is happening and hear or read the correspondence that is sent?

I know this trend of riders not been actively involved with clubs has been happening for a while and its not getting better...in fact its getting worse.

The structure of the whole set up with MNZ serving clubs and the clubs serving the licence holders is how it was designed and how it still operates. Perhaps this is now past its use by date?

Do not get me wrong, I am sure MNZ can improve direct communication but doing this will only serve to increase the drift from the clubs from the licence holders as the need to be connected further reduces. Clubs without the support of active members taking part in running the club, organising events and helping out at events will spell the end of clubs as we know them. GUYS...its the clubs that run the events we all enjoy riding at...NO clubs = No events. So then private individuals will take over running events for profit, not for the love and passion of the sport and motorcycling as the clubs do now.

So how should it be? Does MNZ drive people back to the clubs so the sport and the clubs are better for it????

Very keen to get some constructive views and opinions.....The board sees the trend and is very mindful of what is occurring. The clubs are the sport right now, MNZ is only the administrator....think about it.


Kevin Goddard

Ours is a particularly fragmented sport though eh, Kev? It's not footy or tennis or Scottish bush bashing (golf) where everyone lives within a 2 iron of the clubhouse. Look at VMCC where the members are strewn from Taranaki to Hawkes Bay and all points in between, and actual mambers located within the Wellington metro area I'm guessing are in the minority. Is it reasonable to expect a big turnout for committee meetings? Not to mention free time seems to be at more and more of a premium these days, with evenings in front of the telly becoming less and less the norm.

I dunno, MNZ communicating to members via clubs seems to be a fairly roundabout way of getting the job done and surely only gives clubs one more thing to do? Why wait a month for the next newsletter when every MNZ member could know (insert safety/competition info here) virtually instantly with the press of a "send" key.

But doesn't all this correlate nicely with an MNZ forum? Separate Club area's whereby clubs could interact far more easily/quickly/intimately with more of it's members more of the time? Seriously, clubs could get a general feeling for issues within hours, not wait days or weeks for feedback that might never come. Far from distancing members I can see the possibility for members to become far more involved, and peronally invested which may just translate into more hands on involvement too?

How about interaction between clubs? How much of that goes on at the moment? It's always suprised me that there isn't more social stuff, like some sort of Vic Club expedition down South. Bugger the NZSBK serious face, weeks off work, and shitloads of spares etc, just cram as many bikes into as few trailers as possible and head down for a fun weekend. How hard would it be via newsletters etc to gauge interest and organise? Versus how easy with some sort of internet forum?