Dave Moss "Thank you very much for your hospitality, interest, and on bike successes"

[davemosstuning]

New Zealand has always been one place that I didn’t want to visit – as once there, I thought I’d never leave. Fortunately, as I have commitments for the rest of this year in other countries I have to, but as the big man says “I’ll be back!” What a wonderful experience on all levels. There are many lasting memories of this trip the most prevalent being that of openness, friendship and a thirst for knowledge in the riding community as a whole followed by a visual epiphany from those who received the knowledge.

As a nation of tinkerers I will find many more road motorcycles in tip top shape in all aspects when I return. Perhaps with the knowledge I have dispensed over the last several weeks and with winter approaching, the tinkering will begin in earnest and when I return, things will be generally a lot different. I know the track and race riders will be knee deep in bolts, grease, brake fluid and seals soon enough. How about you road riders?

For any trip like this, a lot of “thank you”(s) have to be given out starting with Sam Neilson and family who made this trip happen in all aspects from the initial email of “Hey, would come to NZ to help riders?” to hosting me for the bulk of the trip and to the supporting cast of characters that hosted me in various cities who will become center pins for their cities during the next trip.

I’d also like to give recognition to dealership principles and staff and track day groups who allowed me to present information to their clients without really knowing who I was in the grand scheme of things:- AFC, MCR, Hawks Bay, Avon Suzuki and TSS dealerships along with Play Day track days, Pacific Club track days, Moto TT and the Victoria Motorcycle Club. I know that in all cases, we will be back with each business listed with more events during the week in that city with more information and more training. No doubt there will be extra cities that jump onboard in 2014 so contact Sam who will be the NZ National coordinator at sshbneilson@gmail.com (give him a month to unwind first!). BTW: Kayla has first dibs in Auckland with Anthony!

For 2014 I will be providing all kinds of opportunities to NZ riders including seminars and workshops, suspension tuning on and off track, rider coaching and track day and race classroom sessions at tracks or in the evenings to bring the full Dave Moss Tuning repertoire to NZ that US riders are so familiar with. There’s already a lot of riders verbally signed on for many of the above, so look for more details from Sam Neilson in various forums beginning in September of this year. When the announcements are made, book quickly as there will be limited numbers per event to keep the experience personal and much more detailed in regards to the topic covered (dirt race, dirt trail, dirt adventure, road, road track, road race, road race championship). I will try to keep groups in a single ability/skill category so we can go much deeper in to the topic.

In order to keep the momentum going from now until January 2014 I will be posting monthly to national and regional forums that want information for their members, or private rider/track/race groups where the information can be distributed to its members from a single point of contact. Along with that post, I will answer all the previous months questions in full making sure the answer is comprehensive for all. If you want to be the contact for your group, please email Sam in regards to this so he can distribute the information appropriately.

I will be back next year from the beginning of January through to the end of February at least, possibly into mid March. There are so many riders that need initial and continued help, guidance, advice and motivation and I want to continue with my mission in this regard to make all riders globally safer and more knowledgeable in helping others so that we all create a much stronger sense of community amongst our fellow riders whose bikes handle significantly better and are therefore substantially safer. I really care about every rider out there who has any kind of need for understanding rather than confusion.

The most important point that I can reiterate in this post and from every conversation I have had during my time here is that it is YOUR bike, it has to meet YOUR needs, YOUR weight, YOUR ergonomics, YOUR riding style, YOUR pace and needs to be able to get you around with a well set up OEM suspension to start for sag and hydraulics. Everyone that had their bike adjusted will agree that it was the best money ever spent on their bike. So succumb to peer group pressure and get your bike reviewed and set up correctly – you’ll be very thankful in so many ways and then as a direct result of that experience go find someone who also needs that nudge. One person at a time and we will get there through concrete and accurate knowledge, more comfortable bikes and safer handling machines that bring nothing but a smile to their owners.

Learn what you can at www.feelthetrack.com under the chassis set up video tab! It’s all free ☺ !!!

[NZsarge]

I'll be spreading the good word that's for sure, you said it the best money I've spent on my bike period. Will catch up with you next year.

[Deano]

I wasn't quite able to make one of your seminars this time Dave but heard of some awesome results and reduced lap times due to your input - Choppa and Chappy to name a couple.

I will definitely make the effort in 2014 !

[slowpoke]

Bugger, what an opportunity to miss...this working for a living malarkey sucks big time! Catch you next time Dave, contact my social secretary to co-ordinate acceptable dates would ya? lol.

[JD Racing]

Is this a commercial venture whereby Dave has a work permit, the liability insurances necessary for making modifications to motorcycles and declares all income to the Inland Revenue?
If not who is responsible should anything unfortunate happen to a rider on a modified machine, is his legal redress with the hosting dealer?
Should further adjustment be necessary once Dave has left the country, what happens then?

[SVboy]

Is this a commercial venture whereby Dave has a work permit, the liability insurances necessary for making modifications to motorcycles and declares all income to the Inland Revenue?
If not who is responsible should anything unfortunate happen to a rider on a modified machine, is his legal redress with the hosting dealer?
Should further adjustment be necessary once Dave has left the country, what happens then?

Oh FFS! Why dont you just suck the fun out of our motorcyling passion, throw it on the floor and stomp on it. If this is your response to us having rare access to a renowned expert and gaining heaps of benefit from it, then I suggest you trade your bike for a beige corolla.

[nuts]

Is this a commercial venture whereby Dave has a work permit, the liability insurances necessary for making modifications to motorcycles and declares all income to the Inland Revenue?
If not who is responsible should anything unfortunate happen to a rider on a modified machine, is his legal redress with the hosting dealer?
Should further adjustment be necessary once Dave has left the country, what happens then?

Did you go to a meeting or are you just typing away not knowing what was said, Shown or done ??? (there were no modifications made to any bike) only adjustments useing what the bike has to make tose adjustments and understanding how and why this works or dosent work.

[Robert Taylor]

Oh FFS! Why dont you just suck the fun out of our motorcyling passion, throw it on the floor and stomp on it. If this is your response to us having rare access to a renowned expert and gaining heaps of benefit from it, then I suggest you trade your bike for a beige corolla.

As a generalisation ( and I stress as a generalisation ) JD makes some good points. The reality is there is a lot of dodgy stuff going on and some of the stuff we see makes us wonder aloud if the owners have a death wish. Longer term with everything being required to be more accountable you have to also wonder where this is all heading.
Daves input is of course a total positive in helping people to understand correct setup, cause / affects of adjustments.
As for income and tax implications we of course have such issues domestically. All of us love to minimise our tax implications but we are also all guilty of grizzling when the Government doesnt have a big bag of money to cure social ills and to provide lower cost ACC, ad infinitum. I bet theres plenty of cash changing hands for professional services ( for example changing tyres ) at race meetings with no gst tax invoices being issued.

[Robert Taylor]

I wasn't quite able to make one of your seminars this time Dave but heard of some awesome results and reduced lap times due to your input - Choppa and Chappy to name a couple.

I will definitely make the effort in 2014 !

Theres an interesting story behind all of this

Chappy: He was in touch with me prior to Daves visit and mentioned that the engine mods he had done to his bike but moreover a drastic weight reduction programme was now challenging the rear suspension. I replied that it would need respringing downwards to compensate for the weight loss and likely also it would require revalving. Subsequently Chappy came across Dave at a trackday and Dave softened off both preload and clicker settings that immediately yielded an improvement in grip and reduced tyre degradation, positively reducing lap times. Following that Chappy bought the bike to us and we fitted softer springing, but also we revalved and verified that we were in the ''zone'' of where we needed to be by doing a few dyno runs on our Roehrig suspension dyno. This bought the clickers back into their best response range. At his next meeting Chappy went quicker again and Dave was on hand to verify that everything was heading in a positive direction. When the bike was in our workshop we articualted to Chappy that the high speed rebound shimming in the forks really needed attention and that is now the primary limiting factor to him lapping faster again. This is a job that is still pending. Dave picked up on this isuue.

So Id have to say that Daves input was both valuable and constructive.

Choppa; Dave made some slight preload and click change settings and likely this is what we would have done had we been ''on site''. Primarily I personally look after Choppassuspension internals and settings and Ive often deliberated about having my very capable sidekick Dennis ( Craig Shirriffs main suspension guy ) work with Choppa for a while. A different technician will always have a slightly different approach and may pick up on other areas for improvement. In this respect Daves input was also valuable and he didnt verbally rubbish anything

[Robert Taylor]

No intention whatsoever to hijack this thread but rider and setup education ( not only for track ) is something that our business has been involved in for years and I can totally relate to what Dave is saying. The biggest issue is time ( severe lack of ) and we could conceivably be away every weekend of the year if it werent for the fact we already dont have a life!
Just this last Sunday I personally attended a trackday event at Hampton Downs but largely stayed well away from two of the very top road race riders present who normally captivate all of my time. I spent the whole day measuring and adjusting trackday bikes for regular ''Joe Bloggs'' trackday riders, just as Dave regularly does. Getting the sag set and the feel of the suspension correct, largely with bikes with OEM suspension. I lost count of the number of bikes we adjusted and universally everyone had a big smile on their face. Typical comments were ''its perfect'' to which I retorted ''no its not, its just a whole heap better, and it can be a lot better again with some internal work, respringing as required or replacement with higher performance components''. Or as Paul Thede would put it ''the best youve ridden is the best you know''. Personally I found it was a very rewarding day and it was all done in this instance at no charge as a promotion for the event that it was.
As Dave eludes to, helping riders to better understand overall setup is a huge positive.

[JD Racing]

Unless I'm mistaken Dave seems to be adapting his business to one where he becomes an itinerant journeyman, travelling around various countries working illegally. You could be the best chef in the world but you get caught working without a work permit in a kitchen in California, you'll be deported.

What SV boy is saying is that if I gather together with a group of people from my neighbourhood and pay for a Vietnamese builder to come over and build extensions for us all, get a Polish plumber to plumb them in, and a Swedish electrician to wire them up that's ok. They don't have work permits, we're paying cash but we're passionate about our houses, these are the best tradesmen in their field, why would you want to deny us their experience?

A few local businesses might stop trading and a few local tradesmen might be on the dole..who cares?

If Dave wants a business somewhere other than the US then go ahead, do it through the correct channels, invest in that country, level the playing field with your competitors.

[wasiler]

I am so bummed I missed this. I did not realize he was in town. I am surprised it was only $50 considering the cost of a plane ticket from the U.S. Not to mention the time it took to fly out here.

Well, he has got a lot of good videos out on the internet trying to share his knowledge for free. Look them up when you get the chance. The best part is he is trying to make kiwi bikes more safe on the road and track without trying to extract every cent from your pocket to wipe your a$$. Kudos to him for looking out for the biking community.

Once you understand the basic concepts, you will see suspension set up is not voodoo magic some want you to believe. Watch the videos and than experiment yourself. Keep track of your changes and make small adjustments and see what happens. He has also got a really good video on the internet with regard to tire wear.

Give a person a fish, he will eat for a day.
Teach a person to fish, he will eat for life.

[wasiler]

Deleted Duplicate post

[Robert Taylor]

I am so bummed I missed this. I did not realize he was in town. I am surprised it was only $50 considering the cost of a plane ticket from the U.S. Not to mention the time it took to fly out here.

Well, he has got a lot of good videos out on the internet trying to share his knowledge for free. Look them up when you get the chance. The best part is he is trying to make kiwi bikes more safe on the road and track without trying to extract every cent from your pocket to wipe your a$$. Kudos to him for looking out for the biking community.

Once you understand the basic concepts, you will see suspension set up is not voodoo magic some want you to believe. Watch the videos and than experiment yourself. Keep track of your changes and make small adjustments and see what happens. He has also got a really good video on the internet with regard to tire wear.

Give a person a fish, he will eat for a day.
Teach a person to fish, he will eat for life.

Yes indeed Dave has produced a number of great setup videos. So by implication and generalisation is every suspension tuner / supplier in New Zealand trying to extract every cent out of everyones pocket? Is there no-one in NZ looking out for the biking community?
I for one resent such an emotive line of thinking because I have the largest investment in the motorcycle suspension industry in NZ, by a huge margin and have done a lot of setup training and given a lot of people help either at no charge or very little charge.

[SVboy]

Unless I'm mistaken Dave seems to be adapting his business to one where he becomes an itinerant journeyman, travelling around various countries working illegally. You could be the best chef in the world but you get caught working without a work permit in a kitchen in California, you'll be deported.

What SV boy is saying is that if I gather together with a group of people from my neighbourhood and pay for a Vietnamese builder to come over and build extensions for us all, get a Polish plumber to plumb them in, and a Swedish electrician to wire them up that's ok. They don't have work permits, we're paying cash but we're passionate about our houses, these are the best tradesmen in their field, why would you want to deny us their experience?

A few local businesses might stop trading and a few local tradesmen might be on the dole..who cares?

If Dave wants a business somewhere other than the US then go ahead, do it through the correct channels, invest in that country, level the playing field with your competitors.

SVBoy is not saying that at all. As another poster asked: Did you attend any of Daves seminars? Have you quizzed Dave as to his future intentions? Are you confident that he earned any more than just covering costs?This was a toe in the water for Dave and a lot of people found it very useful. If he deems it successful, I am confident he will set things up on a more formal basis next time. RT, as always raises valid points, and is a wonderful resourse. However, as he said, he needs a life outside of work. For a person like me, located in the south Island, I dont get to see RT in person so the opportunity to hear Dave was outstanding. JDracing, if your analogy re passion for your house is true for you-I suggest you get out more!! Perhaps one of Daves seminars next time......

[wasiler]

Yes indeed Dave has produced a number of great setup videos. So by implication and generalisation is every suspension tuner / supplier in New Zealand trying to extract every cent out of everyones pocket? Is there no-one in NZ looking out for the biking community?
I for one resent such an emotive line of thinking because I have the largest investment in the motorcycle suspension industry in NZ, by a huge margin and have done a lot of setup training and given a lot of people help either at no charge or very little charge.

Look Robert, don't get your panties in a wad. I never said you or anyone in particular. No need to be so defensive. However, you cannot tell me that such people do not exist. I for one resent such an implication that I would be directing that any anyone in particular. If you are doing good business, then you should have nothing to worry about. If Dave Moss came out and provided a service to benefit the motorcycling community, Kudos to him. You do what you have to do to run your shop, and I will do what I have to do as a consumer. This thread was originally for thanking Moss for his time and some people have decided to highjack this thread about themselves. Improper forum etiquette.

[Owl]

This thread was originally for thanking Moss for his time

No it wasn't!

[SPP]

Crack ups... a dozen posts and I’d forgotten how the thread started as well… this place.

Dave seminars and RT’s work seem complimentary to me.

[wasiler]

No it wasn't!

:tugger::tugger::tugger:

[Robert Taylor]

Look Robert, don't get your panties in a wad. I never said you or anyone in particular. No need to be so defensive. However, you cannot tell me that such people do not exist. I for one resent such an implication that I would be directing that any anyone in particular. If you are doing good business, then you should have nothing to worry about. If Dave Moss came out and provided a service to benefit the motorcycling community, Kudos to him. You do what you have to do to run your shop, and I will do what I have to do as a consumer. This thread was originally for thanking Moss for his time and some people have decided to highjack this thread about themselves. Improper forum etiquette.

Really your implication was generalised and I fairly pointed out that not everyone is a rip off. Thats a common assumption rife on this often accursed forum. Note that I have been quick to point out Daves activities in a positive light and illustrated how in the case of one customer ( Chappy ) it was a win win for everyone, Dave, myself and above all Chappy. So another forum comment that the activities are compilimentary rings true

[JD Racing]

For 2014 I will be providing all kinds of opportunities to NZ riders including seminars and workshops, suspension tuning on and off track, rider coaching and track day and race classroom sessions at tracks or in the evenings to bring the full Dave Moss Tuning repertoire to NZ that US riders are so familiar with. There’s already a lot of riders verbally signed on for many of the above, so look for more details from Sam Neilson in various forums beginning in September of this year. When the announcements are made, book quickly as there will be limited numbers per event to keep the experience personal and much more detailed in regards to the topic covered (dirt race, dirt trail, dirt adventure, road, road track, road race, road race championship). I will try to keep groups in a single ability/skill category so we can go much deeper in to the topic.

In order to keep the momentum going from now until January 2014 I will be posting monthly to national and regional forums that want information for their members, or private rider/track/race groups where the information can be distributed to its members from a single point of contact. Along with that post, I will answer all the previous months questions in full making sure the answer is comprehensive for all. If you want to be the contact for your group, please email Sam in regards to this so he can distribute the information appropriately.

I will be back next year from the beginning of January through to the end of February at least, possibly into mid March. There are so many riders that need initial and continued help, guidance, advice and motivation and I want to continue with my mission in this regard to make all riders globally safer and more knowledgeable in helping others so that we all create a much stronger sense of community amongst our fellow riders whose bikes handle significantly better and are therefore substantially safer. I really care about every rider out there who has any kind of need for understanding rather than confusion.


Learn what you can at www.feelthetrack.com under the chassis set up video tab! It’s all free ☺ !!!

That to me reads like an advertisment for a commercial venture not a thanks thread. If Dave is intending to comply with the work visa requirements then fair play to him and good luck, a one off event is one thing, a regular venture is another.
It's bad enough that recognised US suspension companies are providing false invoices so that customs duties can be avoided by those importing goods undercutting local businesses, to start coming over profiteering off the hard yards put in by established local enterprises illegally is not on.

[Edbear]

Seems it isn't just the Yanks who are cynical conspiracy theorists... I see Dave and Robert's posts in a positive light without feeling the need to question their motives or the legality of what Dave did. For goodness sake, they are in business in the industry! Is it only unqualified uninvolved people who can speak?

I sell batteries among a big range of other products and am qualified to talk about the technology but if course any time I do so, certain people can only accuse me of self-promotion. If you want to learn about anything surely you ask those who know? Can't the likes of Dave and Robert offer free advice?

Some need to get over themselves and take a chill pill... :argh:

[NZsarge]

Some need to get over themselves and take a chill pill... :argh:

Yes I agree, if someone provides an outstanding service at a reasonable cost he MUST be a crook right?
Dave didn't need to come to New Zealand and help a considerable number of riders find new joy and greater safety in riding their bikes but he did and I for one am eternally greatful, why is it when someone actually goes out of their way to make our pastime better there's always someone that has to drag him down?
To those I refer to I say stop being so f'ing cynical and butt the hell out and go and annoy someone that actually deserves it.

[NZsarge]

And might I add... Dave was invited to come here...

[SVboy]

Seriously JDracing? Life sounds stressful at your place. Step back, big breaths and relaxxxxxxx. You have failed to see all the good in this which is a shame. I do imagine you are really good at chopping down those tall poppies in that immaculate garden of yours!:brick:

[Mort]

Perhaps JD Racing would like to publish his tax returns and bank statements on here just to show he practices what he preaches....

Actually, I have a better idea, why don't you mind your own business and shut the fuck up.

[Robert Taylor]

Perhaps JD Racing would like to publish his tax returns and bank statements on here just to show he practices what he preaches....

Actually, I have a better idea, why don't you mind your own business and shut the fuck up.

If you can de-emotionalise this JD actually has a very valid point about US companies ( I will remove suspension and assert not neccessarily just US based companies) producing false invoices. I was ( totally without prompting ) offered a false invoice just last week from a US supplier ( non suspension related ) and politely declined being a part of what is fraud. This practice which is widespread is seriously undermining NZ businesses.

I havent got the foggiest idea who JD is but from posts that he made several years back its obvious that he is a suspension company in another country. He is entitled to his opinion and doesnt need to adhere to your less than polite request.

[300weatherby]

That to me reads like an advertisment for a commercial venture not a thanks thread. If Dave is intending to comply with the work visa requirements then fair play to him and good luck, a one off event is one thing, a regular venture is another.
It's bad enough that recognised US suspension companies are providing false invoices so that customs duties can be avoided by those importing goods undercutting local businesses, to start coming over profiteering off the hard yards put in by established local enterprises illegally is not on.

Actually, Dave Moss is not taking work off anybody, and if I had a specific set of knowledge and skills that allowed me to have a look about in another country without emptying my wallet doing it, I would bloody do it too. Am wondering if you are perhaps more than a little envious, as you are not doing it yourself, would quite like to know why you are clearly upset/passionate about this?

[Gianz]

Dave Moss is knowledgeable in his field and he knows how to speak to riders. He gave a lot of free advice online to all of us. He deserves to be paid for what he does. But to do that in Nz you need a valid visa and you need to comply with the law. Having travelled a lot doesn't mean you are entitled to get your money back on the taxpayer's. Shit I travelled even farther than him but for 2 years here I paid taxes without having anything back (no welfare, no hospitals, no education etc). But that's part of the game, I choose to do it and I don't want Bert (my first kiwi flatmate) from Oamaru to pay for me. I'm probably paying the dole to that slacker now. AND if the guy who "invited" Dave here made money out of it, then that guy is just a dickhead, easy as. Dave charges 20$ in the states for his job (you can see it on youtube clearly).
On the other hand (or end) I saw some of RTaylor's videos. Not very friendly, are you? You come out like that guy that knows about something but who doesn't really want to say too much because in the end it's not such a hard or skilled work to justify the hefty prices he charges. Better keep it obscure and "take to the experts".
That's the impression I've got from your videos.

[Robert Taylor]

Dave Moss is knowledgeable in his field and he knows how to speak to riders. He gave a lot of free advice online to all of us. He deserves to be paid for what he does. But to do that in Nz you need a valid visa and you need to comply with the law. Having travelled a lot doesn't mean you are entitled to get your money back on the taxpayer's. Shit I travelled even farther than him but for 2 years here I paid taxes without having anything back (no welfare, no hospitals, no education etc). But that's part of the game, I choose to do it and I don't want Bert (my first kiwi flatmate) from Oamaru to pay for me. I'm probably paying the dole to that slacker now. AND if the guy who "invited" Dave here made money out of it, then that guy is just a dickhead, easy as. Dave charges 20$ in the states for his job (you can see it on youtube clearly).
On the other hand (or end) I saw some of RTaylor's videos. Not very friendly, are you? You come out like that guy that knows about something but who doesn't really want to say too much because in the end it's not such a hard or skilled work to justify the hefty prices he charges. Better keep it obscure and "take to the experts".
That's the impression I've got from your videos.

Not so skilled? Come and spend a day or two in our workshop and find out, also evidence the heavy investment in equipment we have. The devil as is so often the case is in the detail. We one on one actually convey a LOT of setup information to our customers. Also evidence the many posts on here where I have helped people understand suspension, making things a whole lot less obscure. All things that Dave Moss does. Im not that comfortable behind a camera and in any event are always accused of being over serious, thats just the way I am, but you get a square deal and I resent the ( misunderstood ) accusation of hefty prices. Perhaps if we had less investment and cut corners we could offer lower prices, but that Im not prepared to do.
Every day we also see work that has been done by new ''experts'' or theyve read all about it on the net so ''anyone can do it''. Thankfully not everyone is stupid but its sobering to think that when you are mucking around with this stuff youve got the potential to hurt or even kill people and Daves message is also( very correctly ) safety.

[AllanB]

I for one found Mr T's after sales advice very good. And it was 'free'.

I have yet to read a post from one of his customers who has not been happy.

[JD Racing]

If you can de-emotionalise this JD actually has a very valid point about US companies ( I will remove suspension and assert not neccessarily just US based companies) producing false invoices. I was ( totally without prompting ) offered a false invoice just last week from a US supplier ( non suspension related ) and politely declined being a part of what is fraud. This practice which is widespread is seriously undermining NZ businesses.

I havent got the foggiest idea who JD is but from posts that he made several years back its obvious that he is a suspension company in another country. He is entitled to his opinion and doesnt need to adhere to your less than polite request.

Not yet he isn't but it's looking increasingly likely, it's a legitimate legal possibility, there was once a serious consideration of a South Island suspension business but where would be the incentive to invest at the level required to do the job properly when anyone can step off a plane and be applauded.

[NZsarge]

AND if the guy who "invited" Dave here made money out of it, then that guy is just a dickhead, easy as.

Quite the opposite actually, you know, there are actually decent people out there, surprising I know but true...

[SuperSonic]

This thread has being high jack in so many ways, but to say my bit I also need to high jack this "thank you to NZ" thread by Dave Moss. Once i have finished I will not be returning to make more comments unless it is about thank you's.

So the wild comments from JDracing, I have a few questions for you MR JDracing, one did you come to a Dave Moss Seminar while he was in NZ making our follow riders safer??? I am guessing NO right? Second question, did you talk to Dave Moss about financials at all? Again I am guessing NO am I right? In which case all your comments regarding this are made up by yourself and have no merit at all with no support or any truth to them. So stop talking rubbish and go spread your powerful wisdom else were please. If what you say about setting up business in NZ has any merit to it then the way you are conducting yourself on here tells me that your business will not float.

[Gianz]

Not so skilled? Come and spend a day or two in our workshop and find out, also evidence the heavy investment in equipment we have. The devil as is so often the case is in the detail. We one on one actually convey a LOT of setup information to our customers. Also evidence the many posts on here where I have helped people understand suspension, making things a whole lot less obscure. All things that Dave Moss does. Im not that comfortable behind a camera and in any event are always accused of being over serious, thats just the way I am, but you get a square deal and I resent the ( misunderstood ) accusation of hefty prices. Perhaps if we had less investment and cut corners we could offer lower prices, but that Im not prepared to do.
Every day we also see work that has been done by new ''experts'' or theyve read all about it on the net so ''anyone can do it''. Thankfully not everyone is stupid but its sobering to think that when you are mucking around with this stuff youve got the potential to hurt or even kill people and Daves message is also( very correctly ) safety.

I'm just saying it's not rocket science. There's people doing my job as an hobby, and thinking they get good results. Very few of them do. There are some in my profession that should stop doing it.
And for the camera part, I can't give you any advice, I've heard of people hanging themselves after seeing a video of me.

[Edbear]

Not so skilled? Come and spend a day or two in our workshop and find out, also evidence the heavy investment in equipment we have. The devil as is so often the case is in the detail. We one on one actually convey a LOT of setup information to our customers. Also evidence the many posts on here where I have helped people understand suspension, making things a whole lot less obscure. All things that Dave Moss does. Im not that comfortable behind a camera and in any event are always accused of being over serious, thats just the way I am, but you get a square deal and I resent the ( misunderstood ) accusation of hefty prices. Perhaps if we had less investment and cut corners we could offer lower prices, but that Im not prepared to do.
Every day we also see work that has been done by new ''experts'' or theyve read all about it on the net so ''anyone can do it''. Thankfully not everyone is stupid but its sobering to think that when you are mucking around with this stuff youve got the potential to hurt or even kill people and Daves message is also( very correctly ) safety.

Therein lies the rub! You have to be repsonsible for your work and if someone is killed or injured after you have done their set-up you are in the gun until you prove it wasn't what you did that caused the accident or failure. In business we need to have enough PL Insurance and that is not cheap either. Sure, "everyone's" an expert and "everyone" can do it, few actually do though, and fewer back themselves with the support of insurance and facilities, staff and rep.

Much easier to be a keyboard critic, eh..? :brick:

[SVboy]

Wow, sad that this thread has taken this direction.
1/Dave was invited here thru the passion and interest of Supersonic.Dave accepted because he has a passion to communicate with and to upskill riders, making them better,safer and faster. A great opportunity for bike enthusiasists in NZ.
2/Those that took the opportunity to meet Dave at his seminars and trackdays can attest to his huge knowledge,experience
and ability to communicate well.
3/Only Dave and SS know the financial structure and legalities involved in this venture ; any other comment is just speculation at best,nasty stirring at worst.
4/NZ is blessed with talent such as RT, Kerry Dukic and others, but their business models are understandably different to Daves. If Daves work generates more suspension work for these people, everybody wins. IF RT takes the time and trouble to post UTUBE clips that I can learn from, I am grateful, not picky.

[Mort]

Wow, sad that this thread has taken this direction.
1/Dave was invited here thru the passion and interest of Supersonic.Dave accepted because he has a passion to communicate with and to upskill riders, making them better,safer and faster. A great opportunity for bike enthusiasists in NZ.
2/Those that took the opportunity to meet Dave at his seminars and trackdays can attest to his huge knowledge,experience
and ability to communicate well.
3/Only Dave and SS know the financial structure and legalities involved in this venture ; any other comment is just speculation at best,nasty stirring at worst.
4/NZ is blessed with talent such as RT, Kerry Dukic and others, but their business models are understandably different to Daves. If Daves work generates more suspension work for these people, everybody wins. IF RT takes the time and trouble to post UTUBE clips that I can learn from, I am grateful, not picky.

Dead right there... I really liked what Dave did to my bike and it opened my eyes to suspension improvements (so I benefited). I attended the Honda and PMCC days at Taupo partly because Dave Moss was there (so they benefited) and when I get the readies together I'll be going to see Dr. Robert (so he'll benefit). What JD is saying is just bitter sentiment (based on what I dont know). Dave did not take anything from NZ, he contributed and there are many that have benefited from the programme he and Sam put together. If he made a few bucks or even covered his costs it most certainly is not a matter for JD to discuss here. I hope he comes back next year.

[gripper]

is JDracing robert's alter ego ? hmm

[wasiler]

Wow, sad that this thread has taken this direction.
1/Dave was invited here thru the passion and interest of Supersonic.Dave accepted because he has a passion to communicate with and to upskill riders, making them better,safer and faster. A great opportunity for bike enthusiasists in NZ.
2/Those that took the opportunity to meet Dave at his seminars and trackdays can attest to his huge knowledge,experience
and ability to communicate well.
3/Only Dave and SS know the financial structure and legalities involved in this venture ; any other comment is just speculation at best,nasty stirring at worst.
4/NZ is blessed with talent such as RT, Kerry Dukic and others, but their business models are understandably different to Daves. If Daves work generates more suspension work for these people, everybody wins. IF RT takes the time and trouble to post UTUBE clips that I can learn from, I am grateful, not picky.

Thank you, could not have said it better myself. I think it was very nice of him to come out here and I thank him and all the people that was able to make this possible.

Every single one of us puts our life at risk when we jump on a motorcycle, no matter how safe or visible the person is. We all accept that responsibility. If the information is free, affordable and correct (which is true with Moss), I don't care about the legalities because I am accepting the responsibility for my safety. What is the alternative to this, do nothing because someone can't afford to get their bike properly set up and maintained...or even worse, just go out and start taking a wild guess...Any help is better than no help.

I doubt whoever paid for his ticket out here, made their money back. A round trip plane ticket probably costs around $2500 so at $50 a head, he would have to have 50 people to break even. Then include rental, hotel and food, that is even more. So, that does not seem like a good business venture to me.

It is a shame which direction this thread has taken.

[Robert Taylor]

is JDracing robert's alter ego ? hmm

Check out JD racings history of posts, also check out my scathing comments about those who post very acidicly but only behind their forum name. Some of JDs comments raise fair enough questions, as it happens. DaveMoss does a good job, as it happens. I do have questions for Dave, as it happens.

[300weatherby]

Check out JD racings history of posts, also check out my scathing comments about those who post very acidicly but only behind their forum name. Some of JDs comments raise fair enough questions, as it happens. DaveMoss does a good job, as it happens. I do have questions for Dave, as it happens.

Such as?, or are they secret squirrel........

[ckai]

Sometimes I wish I was Mr Fantastic so I could bitch slap a good chunk of society.

:done:

Gotta say, this year has been brilliant for getting some bloody good, internationally proven and praised, bike related knowledge. It also just so happened to be the year where all my finances have had the life sucked out of them. Good to hear Dave's planning on coming back. Maybe next year I can jump at the opportunity.

[Robert Taylor]

Such as?, or are they secret squirrel........

All positive stuff..............

[slowpoke]

Wow, sad that this thread has taken this direction.
1/Dave was invited here thru the passion and interest of Supersonic.Dave accepted because he has a passion to communicate with and to upskill riders, making them better,safer and faster. A great opportunity for bike enthusiasists in NZ.
2/Those that took the opportunity to meet Dave at his seminars and trackdays can attest to his huge knowledge,experience
and ability to communicate well.
3/Only Dave and SS know the financial structure and legalities involved in this venture ; any other comment is just speculation at best,nasty stirring at worst.
4/NZ is blessed with talent such as RT, Kerry Dukic and others, but their business models are understandably different to Daves. If Daves work generates more suspension work for these people, everybody wins. IF RT takes the time and trouble to post UTUBE clips that I can learn from, I am grateful, not picky.

Why is it sad? Surely anybody can ask a simple question, it's only a question, nobody is insulting his mother or anything.

From what you are saying you think it's ok for a passionate experienced backpacking taxi driver from Europe to start ferrying paying passengers around Wellington to earn some pocket money and local taxi drivers should just accept it. Sorry, but I think the taxi drivers would have every right to ask questions about the arrangement.

I'm no stickler for following the rules but where my livelihood is concerned I'd be fukn pissed off if I or one of my mates was done out of a job or work because a tourist was after a bit of pocket money, so it's aboslutely fair play for RT and JD to ask a simple question.

[SVboy]

Why is it sad? Surely anybody can ask a simple question, it's only a question, nobody is insulting his mother or anything.

From what you are saying you think it's ok for a passionate experienced backpacking taxi driver from Europe to start ferrying paying passengers around Wellington to earn some pocket money and local taxi drivers should just accept it. Sorry, but I think the taxi drivers would have every right to ask questions about the arrangement.

I'm no stickler for following the rules but where my livelihood is concerned I'd be fukn pissed off if I or one of my mates was done out of a job or work because a tourist was after a bit of pocket money, so it's aboslutely fair play for RT and JD to ask a simple question.

Think about your bizarre analogy re taxi drivers, unusual in the extreme. Now take a big breath and think about this whole event from the point of view of being a passionate motorcyclist[assuming that you are one?] given a rare opportunity to hear from an overseas expert on suspension. Do you know of ANY nzer who specializes in suspension seminars and offering trackday setups? I dont. So this has,at this stage, been a one-off event. As to the events financial structure, I dont know? Do you?You do! Prove it. Or are you just jumping on the "guessing" bandwagon?
Now as far as I know, no hard-working nzer has their income at risk here; in fact these seminars probably grew some peoples businesses income. For example, If Dave helps a person set their bike up and identifies it needs new springs, or there is a valving issue, then they most likely will go to RT or similar. Benefit to NZ!
As an aside;who is JDracing? They seem unable or unwilling to answer any questions directed their way but seem content to stir from the the safety of the internet. Its not you is it?

[Robert Taylor]

Think about your bizarre analogy re taxi drivers, unusual in the extreme. Now take a big breath and think about this whole event from the point of view of being a passionate motorcyclist[assuming that you are one?] given a rare opportunity to hear from an overseas expert on suspension. Do you know of ANY nzer who specializes in suspension seminars and offering trackday setups? I dont. So this has,at this stage, been a one-off event. As to the events financial structure, I dont know? Do you?You do! Prove it. Or are you just jumping on the "guessing" bandwagon?
Now as far as I know, no hard-working nzer has their income at risk here; in fact these seminars probably grew some peoples businesses income. For example, If Dave helps a person set their bike up and identifies it needs new springs, or there is a valving issue, then they most likely will go to RT or similar. Benefit to NZ!
As an aside;who is JDracing? They seem unable or unwilling to answer any questions directed their way but seem content to stir from the the safety of the internet. Its not you is it?

In all fairness we have ourselves over the years run a number of seminars, most totally free and some charged. We had an Ohlins Superbike road race engineer here about 4 years back ( Peter Goddard ) and that went down very well. It was pricey to get him here which obviously reflected in the charge but the knowledge he imparted to road racers was gold. Also we have on a number of occassions been at trackdays to set bikes up ( independent of top level racebikes ), one just 2 weeks ago and it all went down exceptionally well. This was totally at no charge but a real cost to me in downtime, fuel and incidentals ( silly me? )
Perhaps its just less well publicised and in fairness some of our competitors have been at trackdays just to help people, which hopefully then leads to business. But it should only mean business for all the right reasons, not for the sake of it.
No disrespect whatsoever to Dave but I think that also perhaps there is this feeling that because someone is from overseas their level of knowledge will be huge to what the local proffessionals can impart. Some of us have also worked overseas, including in WSBK and have access to the inner sanctums of the blue chip suspension manufacturers. So we are not exactly ''isolated''

Where a group of people can be got together for some setup knowledge etc then we are totally approachable and available most of the year round.

[SVboy]

Robert, we would love having you down here for a track weekend or seminar any time.

[300weatherby]

Robert, we would love having you down here for a track weekend or seminar any time.

But don't tell him you've been buying your suspenders over the net first,


Mind you, you with suspenders and RT with twisted knickers could be funny............:innocent:

[Robert Taylor]

Robert, we would love having you down here for a track weekend or seminar any time.

Ok, perhaps see how many people you can get together to spread the cost

[300weatherby]

Ok, perhaps see how many people you can get together to spread the cost

Could we make it racer specific and maybe sort topic/questions ect in advance so we could do it to a plan, give us an idea of cost and your logistical requirements, then we could work on number requirements to fund it, I'd give SV a hand to get it up and running.

[Robert Taylor]

Could we make it racer specific and maybe sort topic/questions ect in advance so we could do it to a plan, give us an idea of cost and your logistical requirements, then we could work on number requirements to fund it, I'd give SV a hand to get it up and running.

Ok send me an e-mail to sales @kss.net.nz, so that I have your regular e-mail address to respond to