Should we give 500 Production Racing a try?

[RobGassit]

As the new CB500, ( Parallel Twin) hits the showroom floors soon, is the time approaching to consider racing 500 Production bikes in ENZED?

[SWERVE]

Yeah...why not!
Lets add another class to an already over populated arena! Unless Honda wanna come to the party and supply the bikes in race trim at heavily discounted prices and support the class.......
Once again it would be a class with only 2 suppliers (honda/kawasaki)

Could always scrap Superlite / protwin and replace with 500 proddie................. im off to hide from the flack that is coming my way for that:ar15:
im sure this thread will bring in plenty of opinions...... Mr Gassit must think that KB has been a bit quiet of late:killingme

[Deano]

Yeah....nah.

By all means soup one up and enter it in Superlite.

[HenryDorsetCase]

As the new CB500, ( Parallel Twin) hits the showroom floors soon, is the time approaching to consider racing 500 Production bikes in ENZED?

You talking about a one-make series like, errrrr, various ones overseas. I think there was a Street Triple one?

[quickbuck]

Yeah...why not!
Lets add another class to an already over populated arena! Unless Honda wanna come to the party and supply the bikes in race trim at heavily discounted prices and support the class.......

The Honda Dealer I was talking to brought up the idea (Kevin C at City Honda), and he said many of the dealers are keen...
Also I am keen to Step-Up.....
Put us at the back of SuperLite until the grid fills up.

Do agree though, that the card is pretty full... But that is if we run Motards.
We could always kick them into touch.... How much flack am I going to get for that???

[Billy]

As the new CB500, ( Parallel Twin) hits the showroom floors soon, is the time approaching to consider racing 500 Production bikes in ENZED?


The Honda Dealer I was talking to brought up the idea (Kevin C at City Honda), and he said many of the dealers are keen...
Also I am keen to Step-Up.....
Put us at the back of SuperLite until the grid fills up.

Do agree though, that the card is pretty full... But that is if we run Motards.
We could always kick them into touch.... How much flack am I going to get for that???

Sounds good,In fact I quizzed Dale Burgess about how he thought the new Ninja 300 would stack up in the class,He was confident they could run with the Honda 500s,So which class is it you want to get rid of then??

[quickbuck]

Sounds good,In fact I quizzed Dale Burgess about how he thought the new Ninja 300 would stack up in the class,He was confident they could run with the Honda 500s,So which class is it you want to get rid of then??

Mmmm, Ninja 300's.... Do they really have the torque?
I guess if the rules are "Up to 500cc Twin" then we can cross enter 250 Production bikes too???

I have already said what I would get rid of ;)
(The rest I wrote I have just deleted as I can't be bothered getting onto my soap box).

[Billy]

Mmmm, Ninja 300's.... Do they really have the torque?
I guess if the rules are "Up to 500cc Twin" then we can cross enter 250 Production bikes too???

I have already said what I would get rid of ;)
(The rest I wrote I have just deleted as I can't be bothered getting onto my soap box).

But motards don't run at Nationals

[quickbuck]

But motards don't run at Nationals
Good point, well raised.
I was just thinking Club Level at this staghe to be honest......

But yes, going forward it will need to be a National Class.....
Actually, remind me why we have Clubmans at Nationals??

[Billy]

Good point, well raised.
I was just thinking Club Level at this staghe to be honest......

But yes, going forward it will need to be a National Class.....
Actually, remind me why we have Clubmans at Nationals??

Clubmans is not run at all rounds and is a support class decided on by the clubs running some rounds.

[budda]

Good point, well raised.
I was just thinking Club Level at this staghe to be honest......

But yes, going forward it will need to be a National Class.....
Actually, remind me why we have Clubmans at Nationals??

Yeah, well - where do i start .........
1/ the vast majority of racing in UnZud IS "Club racing"
2/ Why is there a "need" for it to be a Nationals Class?
3/ Why are we even HAVING this discussion, these bikes are ALREADY catered for in the existing Class structures - as above, get 'em, run 'em with the current Class and, when numbers dictate, lobby for a National Champs then
4/ Why would you bother when you could convert a 450 MX'er !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quickbuck]

Clubmans is not run at all rounds and is a support class decided on by the clubs running some rounds.
Fair point.........

I see the dilemma!

[jellywrestler]

As the new CB500, ( Parallel Twin) hits the showroom floors soon, is the time approaching to consider racing 500 Production bikes in ENZED?

fuck yeah, but lets have a Supersport and Superstock option too, and another 'modified class' where sidestand brackets are allowed to be removed...

[quickbuck]

Yeah, well - where do i start .........
1/ the vast majority of racing in UnZud IS "Club racing"
2/ Why is there a "need" for it to be a Nationals Class?
3/ Why are we even HAVING this discussion, these bikes are ALREADY catered for in the existing Class structures - as above, get 'em, run 'em with the current Class and, when numbers dictate, lobby for a National Champs then
4/ Why would you bother when you could convert a 450 MX'er !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All good points... But the last one I will say it is another way to skin the 450 MX'er Cat....
And cheaper on maintenance too....

[Billy]

Yeah, well - where do i start .........
1/ the vast majority of racing in UnZud IS "Club racing"
2/ Why is there a "need" for it to be a Nationals Class?
3/ Why are we even HAVING this discussion, these bikes are ALREADY catered for in the existing Class structures - as above, get 'em, run 'em with the current Class and, when numbers dictate, lobby for a National Champs then
4/ Why would you bother when you could convert a 450 MX'er !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BINGO......You should be roadrace commissioner

[Mental Trousers]

BINGO......You should be roadrace commissioner

Lucky I deleted what I was going to say otherwise you might have suggested I take the job. Fuck that!!

[budda]

Lucky I deleted what I was going to say otherwise you might have suggested I take the job. Fuck that!!

Make that VEEEEERRRRRRRY lucky !!!!!!! Pass the NEXT cup of cold sick, please Vicar

[SWERVE]

All good points... But the last one I will say it is another way to skin the 450 MX'er Cat....
And cheaper on maintenance too....

BUT... the 450mxer route would have possibly 7/8+ different makes on the cards. The 500 would be Honda CB500 / Kawasaki EX500 (only I THINK) And that is what i believe would make such a class worth it. And also allow those who want to buy off the shelf do so...as well as the good old kiwi build it myself. IMHO a good modern intermeadiate class.

[tail_end_charlie]

So.................like Pro-Twin less 150cc and modifications?

[slowpoke]

Actually, remind me why we have Clubmans at Nationals??

So the average Club racer has a class they can race in. After all it is their club's money and their club's resources being put on the line for "blow in's" to come have a play. It's also the one decent chance for the average club racer to showcase any sponsors in front of a reasonable crowd.

[quickbuck]

So the average Club racer has a class they can race in. After all it is their club's money and their club's resources being put on the line for "blow in's" to come have a play. It's also the one decent chance for the average club racer to showcase any sponsors in front of a reasonable crowd.
What is stopping you entering the actual class?
I did last year because it would be stupid to put a 250 Production bike in Clubmans.
I did quite well in the end....
That said, I may not be the average club racer.....

[jellywrestler]

What is stopping you entering the actual class?
I did last year because it would be stupid to put a 250 Production bike in Clubmans.
I did quite well in the end....
bikes that are outside the rules
riders that are not quick enough for a nats class
riders who want shorter races

[quickbuck]

Lets see how flamed I get for this:


bikes that are outside the rules - Get one that IS
riders that are not quick enough for a nats class - Go FASTER, or Learn how
riders who want shorter races - Get Fitter

[Deano]

So.................like Pro-Twin less 150cc and modifications?

Yup.

Is it really a good idea to introduce even more categories into racing and dilute class numbers even further ?

How is that good for the sport ?

[White trash]

So you want a mid-sized, commuter bike class. Sort of liiiiiiike, pro-twins?

[Skunk]

I think we need a class for every 100cc of engine capacity and those should be split further by the number of cylinders. Split the result by two stroke and four with an offshoot of wankels and supercharged.
So:
1200cc maximum/100cc = 12 classes
times 1 to 4 clyinders = 48 classes
times 2 or 4 stroke or wankel = 144 classes
times 2 for the supercharged = 288 classes.
I think we now have enough for everyone to be a winner of their one lap race!

Oh shit, I forgot the gas turbine engined bikes...
Oh, and the proddy/specials/factory/race special splits.

[jellywrestler]

I think we need a class for every 100cc of engine capacity and those should be split further by the number of cylinders. Split the result by two stroke and four with an offshoot of wankels and supercharged.
So:
1200cc maximum/100cc = 12 classes
times 1 to 4 clyinders = 48 classes
times 2 or 4 stroke or wankel = 144 classes
times 2 for the supercharged = 288 classes.
I think we now have enough for everyone to be a winner of their one lap race!

Oh shit, I forgot the gas turbine engined bikes...

there's a lot of miderange bikes that you're disadvantaging, 450 550 650 750 i think you should have 50cc increments to be fairer

then of course the triumph 675 would be an orphan so maybe 25cc increments are even more fairer???

[Skunk]

So the average Club racer has a class they can race in. After all it is their club's money and their club's resources being put on the line for "blow in's" to come have a play. It's also the one decent chance for the average club racer to showcase any sponsors in front of a reasonable crowd.
The average club racer should be in a race class - not Clubmans! Nationals is a showcase opportunity that gets squandered over and over. Why run the 'dip your toes in racing and see if you like it' class at Nationals. It's a Club level class.
If you want to open it up to average club racer find another class - Posties, F1, F2 for instance. I would have run Posties if I thought they could find their way south of Hampton. Seems they have lost their map recently. VMCC choose to run F1/F2 for Nationals.

[Skunk]

Should we give 500 Production Racing a try?
As the new CB500, ( Parallel Twin) hits the showroom floors soon, is the time approaching to consider racing 500 Production bikes in ENZED?
You can race that now and it has it's own class. It's called Superlite.

[Skunk]

there's a lot of miderange bikes that you're disadvantaging, 450 550 650 750 i think you should have 50cc increments to be fairer

then of course the triumph 675 would be an orphan so maybe 25cc increments are even more fairer???
Damit! We're going to run out of riders soon. Maybe time for a class for non riders?

[SWERVE]

There you see................. Mr Gassit was just bored and wanted some fun.......... notice he hasnt re-posted yet
Just sitting back watching the entertainment. Just confirmed by many thoughts...there are already too many classes/sub classes for the rider base... so people just chose when and where to race which just depletes class nunbers across the board.

[scracha]

The Honda Dealer I was talking to brought up the idea (Kevin C at City Honda), and he said many of the dealers are keen.

If Honda (or a shedload of Dealers) offer them at a VERY discounted purchase/lease price or throw some money into the kitty then I reckon some riders and clubs might be interested. Otherwise, why would anyone bother?

[slowpoke]

The average club racer should be in a race class - not Clubmans! Nationals is a showcase opportunity that gets squandered over and over. Why run the 'dip your toes in racing and see if you like it' class at Nationals. It's a Club level class.
If you want to open it up to average club racer find another class - Posties, F1, F2 for instance. I would have run Posties if I thought they could find their way south of Hampton. Seems they have lost their map recently. VMCC choose to run F1/F2 for Nationals.

I think we're talking at cross purposes here mate. F1/F2 allows a large proportion of average club racers (BEAR's, Posties, F1, F2) to get some track time, which sounds great to me.

Clubman's at Club level is as you say all about novices and "dip your toes" types and should be called what it is: Novice class. Clubman's at National's events is a different beast altogether, and I reckon the Clubman term is a much better description for this type of "catch all" class.

Posties? Why limit it? And why limit it to a class that already has standalone events that exclude the average club bike? It's a club event, a showcase of the club as a whole, so my tuppeny worth would be to run a support class that caters for as many club members as possible, not just a chosen few.

[tail_end_charlie]

I think we're talking at cross purposes here mate. F1/F2 allows a large proportion of average club racers (BEAR's, Posties, F1, F2) to get some track time, which sounds great to me.

Clubman's at Club level is as you say all about novices and "dip your toes" types and should be called what it is: Novice class. Clubman's at National's events is a different beast altogether, and I reckon the Clubman term is a much better description for this type of "catch all" class.

Posties? Why limit it? And why limit it to a class that already has standalone events that exclude the average club bike? It's a club event, a showcase of the club as a whole, so my tuppeny worth would be to run a support class that caters for as many club members as possible, not just a chosen few.

^What he said^

[Skunk]

Posties? Why limit it? And why limit it to a class that already has standalone events that exclude the average club bike? It's a club event, a showcase of the club as a whole, so my tuppeny worth would be to run a support class that caters for as many club members as possible, not just a chosen few.
The paperwork is one reason to limit it to existing classes. Vic Club already has the rules for F1 and F2 written. Posties have the rules in the rulebook.
Field size is the next reason. Auckland can get a good fields of Posties. I'm hoping we can get a good field of F1/F2 (not looking good yet with zero entries!).
Next thing to consider is speed difference on track. Last thing we would want to do is take entries and then tell riders they didn't qualify.

[Str8 Jacket]

Maybe time for a class for non riders?

How's about those of us that are injured?

However we wold need to be aware of age, weight and physical differences of the presumed competitors and you may need to split the grids to accomodate this.

[roogazza]

I think we're talking at cross purposes here mate. F1/F2 allows a large proportion of average club racers (BEAR's, Posties, F1, F2) to get some track time, which sounds great to me.
That sounds pretty good to me Spud, Clubman class for club racers makes sense.
Time to cull, the too many classes we have for the number of racers.
500 Production ! nah ! we already have pro twins for learners and that's been a bit of a flop.

[budda]

That sounds pretty good to me Spud, Clubman class for club racers makes sense.
Time to cull, the too many classes we have for the number of racers.
500 Production ! nah ! we already have pro twins for learners and that's been a bit of a flop.

We have NO Champs Classes for learners - each and every Nationals Class is a valid stand-alone Championship for those who choose to compete in it ........

One of the major reasons we have low Competitor numbers in Champs races is this bullshit mindset that only SuperBikes is valid, and only 600's are a real apprenticeship for them. Fine if you've got Genuine aspirations of World Dominance - but most of us havent !

Riders DONT choose to ride in those two for A/ personal reasons, B/ budgetary constraints, C/ no interest in any Class other their current one, D/ dont want to be denigrated for being "slow" up against the "fast" guys

The only one of the above we all as riders can do anything about is D ........ ENCOURAGE guys with suitable bikes to get out with the Nats guys and have a go, dont put them off !!!!!

[roogazza]

We have NO Champs Classes for learners - each and every Nationals Class is a valid stand-alone Championship for those who choose to compete in it ........

One of the major reasons we have low Competitor numbers in Champs races is this bullshit mindset that only SuperBikes is valid, and only 600's are a real apprenticeship for them. Fine if you've got Genuine aspirations of World Dominance - but most of us havent !

Riders DONT choose to ride in those two for A/ personal reasons, B/ budgetary constraints, C/ no interest in any Class other their current one, D/ dont want to be denigrated for being "slow" up against the "fast" guys

The only one of the above we all as riders can do anything about is D ........ ENCOURAGE guys with suitable bikes to get out with the Nats guys and have a go, dont put them off !!!!!

I must be a rare beast in that Nationals do nothing for me, as in I had no interest in chasing a title. We're talking many years ago here.
Most of the time I had mates say this is a points race, my answer to that was so what ! Just another race to me.
By all means encourage people to get out there, but this holy grail of Nationals is not that important to me at least. We need depth and talent first. No ? Even now at 64 I wouldn't hesitate to enter any level I chose or If I had the energy to be bothered.

[RobGassit]

At the risk of getting my arse kicked for posting on my own thread, can I add the following...

A,,, 500's are emerging in other countries as a way forward for developing riders.
B,,, The MNZ Roadrace Commissioner hinted last year that Protwins may get the chop.
C,,, Protwins,( And I'm a fan) only runs 2 manufacturers but is dominated by the SV650 just as the 250 Ninja does in 250 Proddy.( And dare I say it the GSXR in Supers) Riders gravitate to the most suitable weapon for the task, so you could have 6 different makes but history shows one make will carry more numbers. I don't see this as a problem.
D,,, 500's will be as easy to run for joe average as the 250's and a stepping stone to faster and more expensive kit if that is desired.
E,,, Fat buggers can run a 500 without breaking the frame.
F,,, 500's don't have to be a National Class.
G,,, Could they run split grid with the 250's?
H,,, I suspect Billy has some new class ideas up his sleeve anyway,,( 848 anyone)
And finally I don't believe adding a new class that would run on track within another class necessarily weakons other classes. It strikes me there just may be some couch potatoes out there that would consider running a 500 that just needed gas and tyres. Mobil 98 and Shinkos..

[Deano]

we already have pro twins for learners and that's been a bit of a flop.

Learners? :lol:

What about those who's budget constrains them to this sort of class?

Admittedly numbers have not been great in past years but there are just as many pro twins as superlites this year Gaz. Who knows what next year might bring.

[Billy]

I must be a rare beast in that Nationals do nothing for me, as in I had no interest in chasing a title. We're talking many years ago here.
Most of the time I had mates say this is a points race, my answer to that was so what ! Just another race to me.
By all means encourage people to get out there, but this holy grail of Nationals is not that important to me at least. We need depth and talent first. No ? Even now at 64 I wouldn't hesitate to enter any level I chose or If I had the energy to be bothered.

Yea,I gotta admit it was the same for me,Really only did the street meets,Porrirua,Gracefeild and Onekawa,With the odd car/bike meeting at Levin,I can't honestly say I even remember the Nationals existing back then,But they obviously did cause one of the guys I used to knock around with back then was the ex 250 GP champ from the 60s.

Different culture nowadays tho,All the same while the thought of the 500 class might have been ok 3 years ago,It would just be another also ran class if introduced now and some other class would end up losing numbers

[quickbuck]

E,,, Fat buggers can run a 500 without breaking the frame.

What you mean to say, bigger people can ride them against smaller people without a huge disparity in power to weight ratio.... Not to mention upsetting the bike with the mass shift....

[budda]

I must be a rare beast in that Nationals do nothing for me, as in I had no interest in chasing a title. We're talking many years ago here.
Most of the time I had mates say this is a points race, my answer to that was so what ! Just another race to me.
By all means encourage people to get out there, but this holy grail of Nationals is not that important to me at least.

Thats my point - there is exactly nothing to stop people voting with their wallet and running the Honda's NOW - why reinvent the whole thing for NO gain ?

The National Champs are a vital element in our Sport, but they are NOT the be all & end all ..... far from it. Club level racing for FUN is where the Champs contenders came from.

Very few of them would admit to not enjoying what they do, even the Demi-Gods of MotoGP and WSBK dice with each other because they want to BEAT the man, NOT just because there's a contingency cheque waiting

[jellywrestler]

A,,, 500's are emerging in other countries as a way forward for developing riders.
so's moto 3 250 4 strokes but we ain't got any on the track here yet competing (yep Steveyb i know your's will be on track in a few days...)

[CHOPPA]

Sounds like a great idea! Another commuter bike class :killingme

[CHOPPA]

:Pokey:
.............

[Deano]

:Pokey:
.............

So what happened to you coming to fight club ? I thought you were going to be 'all over that' ? :Pokey:

[CHOPPA]

So what happened to you coming to fight club ? I thought you were going to be 'all over that' ? :Pokey:

haha just the man I was trying to catch! Its to bloody late in the evening..... Excuses.... I have been going to boxing mondays and weds so maybe I should just come to fight club? When is it again? Send me info on facebook?

[Deano]

haha just the man I was trying to catch! Its to bloody late in the evening..... Excuses.... I have been going to boxing mondays and weds so maybe I should just come to fight club? When is it again? Send me info on facebook?

Yeah I thought so - I do bite well !

Gizza a go on ya BMW would ya ? Then you can laugh at how slow I am on a real bike !

[roogazza]

Learners? :lol:
What about those who's budget constrains them to this sort of class?
Admittedly numbers have not been great in past years but there are just as many pro twins as superlites this year Gaz. Who knows what next year might bring.

Yeah cheap is good if you can manage it, some of that might have been written a little better huh ?
Pity time has caught up a bit.I cherish those years.
But hey what I couldn't do then, was fly to Europe every year and watch the best.

[Deano]

Yeah cheap is good if you can manage it, some of that might have been written a little better huh ?
Pity time has caught up a bit.I cherish those years.
But hey what I couldn't do then, was fly to Europe every year and watch the best.

You're still young enough mate. I hope to still be racing hard in my 60's. Some still do in Superlite, Bears and Posties.

[Kickaha]

You're still young enough mate. I hope to still be racing hard in my 60's. Some still do in Superlite, Bears and Posties.

As well as sidecars, the pensioner from down here is doing the all National rounds this year :banana: Go AJ

[RobGassit]

Bumpity Bumpity Bump!!

[Billy]

Bumpity Bumpity Bump!!

Excellent thread dredge haha,

The answer to the OPs question is NO,We do not need another class at this stage,Without getting rid of one of the current classes,These bikes will fit nicely into Pro Twins in the interim,If they prove to be popular then we will look at which class may need to go so we can fit this class in(Most likely 125GP/250 Mono if the numbers aren't there).

Just to be clear,No matter what is claimed on here,NO distributors are sponsoring the NZSBK series for 2014,Which ponders the question,Why are we running classes at that series that don't fit with any other series run year round other than MCI,An excellent example is we could instantly include the Suzuki series as part of the National series.

[codgyoleracer]

Sounds like a great idea! Another commuter bike class :killingme

True, your sports-tourer is much better.................:shifty:

[jasonu]

As the new CB500, ( Parallel Twin) hits the showroom floors soon, is the time approaching to consider racing 500 Production bikes in ENZED?

I'd rather watch grass grow than a bunch of heavy crap sounding parallel twins going slow.

[codgyoleracer]

I'd rather watch grass grow than a bunch of heavy crap sounding parallel twins going slow.

If grass growing is your thing then i would recomend the Yates grass strain Type: H34-222, its known for its spectacular speed of up to 1cm per day !, the 2nd best option is to take up train spotting or as a back-up to that you could try attending a MNZ road-race workshop for a true test of ones attention span.....

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah, well - where do i start .........
1/ the vast majority of racing in UnZud IS "Club racing"
2/ Why is there a "need" for it to be a Nationals Class?
3/ Why are we even HAVING this discussion, these bikes are ALREADY catered for in the existing Class structures - as above, get 'em, run 'em with the current Class and, when numbers dictate, lobby for a National Champs then
4/ Why would you bother when you could convert a 450 MX'er !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because hot rodded 450MX bikes can be hand grenades

[Robert Taylor]

If Honda (or a shedload of Dealers) offer them at a VERY discounted purchase/lease price or throw some money into the kitty then I reckon some riders and clubs might be interested. Otherwise, why would anyone bother?

Why does huge discount have to be the over-riding catalyst? In an ideal world the class would pay its way. And why is the distributor and dealer not allowed to make a fair and reasonable profit? Why is profit such a filthy word when it comes to motorcycle racing? Should everything be a charity? I can tell you for free that the main distributors are not flush with cash at present.

As I have just stated in the thread that I got vilified in ( for daring to suggest a NZ version of EJC ) its coming at it from a different angle

Dealer involvement, structured rider and bike setup training as part of a high value package.

[gammaguy]

You guys are all biking up the wrong tree

What we need is a way to get more people into motorcycling,so I reckon make a class for all those young fullas that buy those cheap Chinese clip on engines for their pushbike and terrorize their neighborhood and scare all the old folk on their mobility scooters on the footpaths.

Clean up the streets,get more racing,bigger crowds especially pimply faced yoofs and their slags...er....girlfriends too.

Fuck,ya might even get a govmint handout for a youth project.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Who's with me?

Hmmmmmm......mobility scooters....now there's another idea.....

[slowpoke]

If grass growing is your thing then i would recomend the Yates grass strain Type: H34-222, its known for its spectacular speed of up to 1cm per day !, the 2nd best option is to take up train spotting or as a back-up to that you could try attending a MNZ road-race workshop for a true test of ones attention span.....

Hey, sounds good! The Minister for War and Finance reckon's "we" (meaning me) have to rehab some lawn........although I'm guessing H34-222 only thrives in the rarefied confines of a certain greenhouse supplied by a certain company in Palmerston North....and just happens to be Kawasaki green? Bewdy! Finally something to get excited about!

[FROSTY]

Ya know what guys theres a guy out there quietly introducing a LOT of potential young racers to road bike racing.
Hes doing it by getting into the engineering classes of schoools all over NZ.
The Year 11 and 12 students are able to build a race sidecar or bike based around a little loncin engine. Then about this time of year they have a race meeting and race the little things.
Such a cool way to get people started racing.

[Biggles08]

We have NO Champs Classes for learners - each and every Nationals Class is a valid stand-alone Championship for those who choose to compete in it ........

One of the major reasons we have low Competitor numbers in Champs races is this bullshit mindset that only SuperBikes is valid, and only 600's are a real apprenticeship for them. Fine if you've got Genuine aspirations of World Dominance - but most of us havent !

Riders DONT choose to ride in those two for A/ personal reasons, B/ budgetary constraints, C/ no interest in any Class other their current one, D/ dont want to be denigrated for being "slow" up against the "fast" guys

The only one of the above we all as riders can do anything about is D ........ ENCOURAGE guys with suitable bikes to get out with the Nats guys and have a go, dont put them off !!!!!

Its not often we agree budda but you are bang on with your last point. Many 'club riders' are talented enough not to get in the way of the 'fast boys' and should be entering into the national class. There is no better way to get faster than to be on the track with fast guys.

I would argue against the main reason for low numbers being an attitude that Superbikes and Supersport is the only valid class (everyone knows Supersport is the only valid class after all ;-)), I would say the main reason is budget contraints. And lets be honest, it doesn't matter what national class you are serious about competitng in it will be expensive to be at the front.

[FROSTY]

Its not often we agree budda but you are bang on with your last point. Many 'club riders' are talented enough not to get in the way of the 'fast boys' and should be entering into the national class. There is no better way to get faster than to be on the track with fast guys..
Ya know what maybee its not intended but you seem to be implying that the "fast guys" have some automatic right of way.
THEY DON"T and its that implication thats just plumb wrong.
Yes you still have the ol 110% rule during qualifying. But other than in a blue flag senario its the "fast guys" who have to be carefull passing the "slow" guys. Have a read of your rule book -rule 6.10 specifically.

[quickbuck]

Ya know what maybee its not intended but you seem to be implying that the "fast guys" have some automatic right of way.
THEY DON"T and its that implication thats just plumb wrong.
Yes you still have the ol 110% rule during qualifying. But other than in a blue flag senario its the "fast guys" who have to be carefull passing the "slow" guys. Have a read of your rule book -rule 6.10 specifically.
I don't think that is what Biggles meant at all....

I think he meant that if you are a Club Racer and you are about to be lapped then you will follow a line that is predictable and the fast guys can go around you....
If you are a Club Racer and are battling with the "Fast Guys" up the front, then you ARE one of the "Fast Guys"....

If he didn't mean that then yeah..... Rule 6.10 explains all...

[Biggles08]

Ya know what maybee its not intended but you seem to be implying that the "fast guys" have some automatic right of way.
THEY DON"T and its that implication thats just plumb wrong.
Yes you still have the ol 110% rule during qualifying. But other than in a blue flag senario its the "fast guys" who have to be carefull passing the "slow" guys. Have a read of your rule book -rule 6.10 specifically.

You been drinking Frosty? :-P

The only thing that matters on the race track is there are no dangerously slow racers out there. Hell I've been one of those 'lapped' riders you are refering to and the only way I managed to get faster not to get lapped was to race with those guys lapping me. Re-read my post and you will soon see it is meant almost exactly opposite as to how you have taken it :rolleyes: