Telecom to start positive credit reporting

[davereid]

From April 1, each month Telecom and credit agencies like Veda Advantage will start sharing client information.

Each month will see your name, address, DOB, driver licence number, current account balance and the payments you have made for the month shared.

This may suit you, some claim it will help you build a good credit rating.

However, many people see it as an invasion of privacy.


It does require your consent.

Telecom have published an advert saying they intend to do it, your consent is implied.

However if you don't want your personal information sold in this manner, you should go to http://www.telecom.co.nz/helpandsupport/helpandsupport/other/makeacomplaint/ and fill out the form telling them you don't authorise positive credit reporting on your account.

[nzspokes]

Pay your phone bill and its fine.

[oneofsix]

Pay your phone bill and its fine.

Providing they don't make any mistakes. Of course corporation like Telecom never make mistakes do they? :killingme At least Telecom have a better track record than Telstra :facepalm:

[Haggis2]

Providing they don't make any mistakes. Of course corporation like Telecom never make mistakes do they? :killingme At least Telecom have a better track record than Telstra :facepalm:

And they'll probably be very careful with your personal details like ACC....

[mashman]

From April 1, each month Telecom and credit agencies like Veda Advantage will start sharing client information.

Are there any rules that stop Veda from being allowed to sell client information on to whoever decides to pay for it?

[huff3r]

Are there any rules that stop Veda from being allowed to sell client information on to whoever decides to pay for it?

Yes. The Privacy Laws. They are only allowed to use your information for the purpose that it was gathered for.

[oneofsix]

Yes. The Privacy Laws. They are only allowed to use your information for the purpose that it was gathered for.

If that were true then Telecom would not be able to give it to Veda. Look at it this way, it was gather to establish your credit rating so now under that guise what is to stop it being shared with anyone that wants an idea of your credit worthiness? Is it even considered "personal" information?

[davereid]

Yes. The Privacy Laws. They are only allowed to use your information for the purpose that it was gathered for.

The law has been changed to allow this to occur.

Unfortunately, the Privacy Commissioner has said that publishing a notice in the paper is enough to say they have consent.

Its most certainly personal information.

Any client of Veda Advantage will have access to the information, once again with your consent. Of course the standard terms and conditions of every company you deal with will include a clause that says you have given consent, so you really have little choice.

[Zedder]

Some info from the Privacy Commissioner:http://privacy.org.nz/credit-reporting-privacy-code

[awa355]

The law has been changed to allow this to occur.

Unfortunately, the Privacy Commissioner has said that publishing a notice in the paper is enough to say they have consent.

Its most certainly personal information.

Any client of Veda Advantage will have access to the information, once again with your consent. Of course the standard terms and conditions of every company you deal with will include a clause that says you have given consent, so you really have little choice.


How can publishing a notice in the paper be considered " consent" Does putting a notice in some obscure one horse town bi-monthly, qualify as a newspaper?

It wont worry me too much but we have all had money problems at some stage. Struggling to pay a bill paid in full in one month doesn't make someone a bad credit risk.

[jim.cox]

Thankx for the heads-up

Have expressly witheld my consent

And suggested that it is bad corporate practice

[silver_duck]

I'm struggling with the concept that someone can publish an advert in a newspaper that then assumes I accept a change in conditions to our contract.
Following this same process could I place an advert informing the world that it owes me 1 Billion dollars and that failure from each individual to decline my offer would assume acceptance.

Thats just silly.

[silver_duck]

Furthermore this change was introduced on April 1st..... really? I mean really?


Credit reporting: What Changed in 2012
From 1 April 2012, credit reporting in New Zealand will look quite different. A number of amendments to the credit code have come into force and the changes are explained in the information below.

[Akzle]

How can publishing a notice in the paper be considered " consent" Does putting a notice in some obscure one horse town bi-monthly, qualify as a newspaper?

It wont worry me too much but we have all had money problems at some stage. Struggling to pay a bill paid in full in one month doesn't make someone a bad credit risk.


I'm struggling with the concept that someone can publish an advert in a newspaper that then assumes I accept a change in conditions to our contract.
Following this same process could I place an advert informing the world that it owes me 1 Billion dollars and that failure from each individual to decline my offer would assume acceptance.

Thats just silly.

it's known as a "gazetted notice"

a notice that is unrefuted stands as fact (at "law")

good fucking deal, eh? you'd be surprised how much shit "the crown" accomplishes with gazetted notices.

it's like a cop handing you an infringement notice. most people think that means they owe money, if you send it back to them with your own notice, saying you've noticed their notice and you think it's all shit, then the burden of proof rests on them.

of course cops lawyers and judges are all giving each other handjobs in the showers, so unless you're kim dotcom wealthy or a real pain in the ass (try sending your letters in green =D ), they'll just drag you through the system and you'll be paying anyway.

[Akzle]

Following this same process could I place an advert informing the world that it owes me 1 Billion dollars and that failure from each individual to decline my offer would assume acceptance.

Thats just silly.

it is just silly, but, at law, you could.
of course you'd probably then need an army of thugs with holdens and flashing lights to enforce your notice.

[jim.cox]

Telecom have published an advert saying they intend to do i


Can you provide a link to an example of this advert?

[davereid]

Can you provide a link to an example of this advert?

Sorry Jim, I can't it was in yesterdays Dom Post.

I made submissions to the Privacy Commissioner about this, went to the hearings the whole shooting match. Unions, The Council for Civil Liberties and some indivduals opposed the new rules, but big business pushed it hard.

They claim that if you are on the margins of credit, this will help you get a good credit rating, and it helps them be "responsible lenders".

But IMHO Veda will have a copy of every bill you pay, and a copy of your bank statement.

Far from promoting responsible lending, it will enable credit providers to identify good credit targets - individuals who always pay their bills and are able to withstand a bit more debt.

Business argued that you had already given consent for a negative credit check.

And so agencies that wanted to move to positive credit reporting could just do so by changing their terms and conditions to allow it. So putting an ad in the paper, or putting it in a customer newsletter sufficed as consent. The Privacy Commissioner agreed, so Telecom are entirely within the law.

Nonetheless they still need consent, and you have the right to say so.

[Bald Eagle]

Have submitted their contact us form specifically revoked consent for positive sharing. Will see what the response is.

[jim.cox]

Sorry Jim, I can't it was in yesterdays Dom Post.

That's good enough for me, thankx.

[Banditbandit]

it is just silly, but, at law, you could.
of course you'd probably then need an army of thugs with holdens and flashing lights to enforce your notice.

You forgot the blue uniforms ..

[mashman]

Yes. The Privacy Laws. They are only allowed to use your information for the purpose that it was gathered for.

So yes


The law has been changed to allow this to occur.

Unfortunately, the Privacy Commissioner has said that publishing a notice in the paper is enough to say they have consent.

Its most certainly personal information.

Any client of Veda Advantage will have access to the information, once again with your consent. Of course the standard terms and conditions of every company you deal with will include a clause that says you have given consent, so you really have little choice.

no


If that were true then Telecom would not be able to give it to Veda. Look at it this way, it was gather to establish your credit rating so now under that guise what is to stop it being shared with anyone that wants an idea of your credit worthiness? Is it even considered "personal" information?

maybe.

Cool. I'll wait to read about it in the paper.

[slofox]

I was all set to tell Telecom to shove the credit sharing up their collective arse thanks or I'd burn their exchanges down...then I thought..."Oh. Hang on. I don't have a Telecom account any more do I?" coughcough:ooops: :facepalm:

[Akzle]

You forgot the blue uniforms ..

it wasn't implied clearly enough?

[davereid]

I was all set to tell Telecom to shove the credit sharing up their collective arse thanks or I'd burn their exchanges down...then I thought..."Oh. Hang on. I don't have a Telecom account any more do I?" coughcough:ooops: :facepalm:

These are the guys who are in the first wave of positive credit reporting.

ANZ National Bank Limited www.anz.co.nz
ASB Bank Limited www.asb.co.nz
Bank of New Zealand www.bnz.co.nz
Centrix Group Limited www.centrix.co.nz
Dun & Bradstreet (New Zealand) Limited www.dnb.co.nz
Finance Now Limited www.financenow.co.nz
Fisher and Paykel Finance Limited http://www.fpf.co.nz
GE Finance & Insurance www.gemoney.co.nz
Kiwibank Limited www.kiwibank.co.nz
QBE Lenders’ Mortgage Insurance Limited www.qbelmi.com
Telecom New Zealand Limited www.telecom.co.nz
Toyota Financial Services New Zealand Limited www.tfs.co.nz
Veda Advantage (NZ) Limited www.veda.co.nz
Westpac New Zealand Limited www.westpac.co.nz


But they are all pushing for a clause that says if other banks etc don't do it as well, they will be unable to access credit reports, effectively forcing it on all providers.

Telecom just happen to be an early adopter.

[Woodman]

So if say you say no to positive credit reporting does that mean that you may appear as a bad credit risk??

Do we get a cut of the sale of our personal information?

Will our Telecom bill go down ?

Do I understand this at all?

Mmmmm Steinlager.

[scumdog]

From April 1, each month Telecom and credit agencies like Veda Advantage will start sharing client information.

Each month will see your name, address, DOB, driver licence number, current account balance and the payments you have made for the month shared.

This may suit you, some claim it will help you build a good credit rating.

However, many people see it as an invasion of privacy.


It does require your consent.

Telecom have published an advert saying they intend to do it, your consent is implied.

However if you don't want your personal information sold in this manner, you should go to http://www.telecom.co.nz/helpandsupport/helpandsupport/other/makeacomplaint/ and fill out the form telling them you don't authorise positive credit reporting on your account.

Somebody had better tell mashman!

Oh wait, he knows - how surprising!!

[scumdog]

it is just silly, but, at law, you could.
of course you'd probably then need an army of thugs with holdens and flashing lights to enforce your notice.


Thank for that, I now have to change my urine-soaked knickers due to exces hilarity at your post...again!

[mashman]

Somebody had better tell mashman!

I already know... the system is rigged man and Morons rule the world... some even police it.

[scumdog]

I already know... the system is rigged man and Morons rule the world... some even police it.

Morons brighter than you??:eek5:
Nah, never....

[mashman]

Morons brighter than you??:eek5:
Nah, never....

you're right. Never.

[davereid]

So if say you say no to positive credit reporting does that mean that you may appear as a bad credit risk??


IMHO its not really about individuals with BAD credit.

That's already known. The moment you default, its listed. So bad risks are already identified.

Its really about giving prospective lenders a full copy of your personal details, especially your financial details.

Look at it this way. Your bank already know your income and where you spend your money. They already know when your AP bounces, or you skip a rent or mortgage payment.

So they know if you are a good lending risk.

That begs the question "why would they share that with other lenders ?" By doing this, the bank knows, that you can approach any bank or lender, and they will have exactly the same financial information on you.

The answer is, this is not about responsible or informed lending.

Its a tool that ensures lenders can identify a prospective client. Someone with good income, good repayment history, and income that is (at least not yet) committed to servicing debt.

[Akzle]

IMHO its not really about individuals with BAD credit.

That's already known. The moment you default, its listed. So bad risks are already identified.

Its really about giving prospective lenders a full copy of your personal details, especially your financial details.

Look at it this way. Your bank already know your income and where you spend your money. They already know when your AP bounces, or you skip a rent or mortgage payment.

So they know if you are a good lending risk.

That begs the question "why would they share that with other lenders ?" By doing this, the bank knows, that you can approach any bank or lender, and they will have exactly the same financial information on you.

The answer is, this is not about responsible or informed lending.

Its a tool that ensures lenders can identify a prospective client. Someone with good income, good repayment history, and income that is (at least not yet) committed to servicing debt.

oh come on.... you really think people with money are dumb enough to fall for that old hook?

[davereid]

oh come on.... you really think people with money are dumb enough to fall for that old hook?


I think that people should be able to make up their own mind who should be able to read their bank statement and when.

People who meet all their obligations to the bank and the other companies they deal with, shouldn't be made to tell the world their every financial detail.

If you choose to, that's fine. But you should be able to choose not to as well.

[Zedder]

IMHO its not really about individuals with BAD credit.

That's already known. The moment you default, its listed. So bad risks are already identified.

Its really about giving prospective lenders a full copy of your personal details, especially your financial details.

Look at it this way. Your bank already know your income and where you spend your money. They already know when your AP bounces, or you skip a rent or mortgage payment.

So they know if you are a good lending risk.

That begs the question "why would they share that with other lenders ?" By doing this, the bank knows, that you can approach any bank or lender, and they will have exactly the same financial information on you.

The answer is, this is not about responsible or informed lending.

Its a tool that ensures lenders can identify a prospective client. Someone with good income, good repayment history, and income that is (at least not yet) committed to servicing debt.

Thanks for the info, it's good that someone keeps an eye on these things.

I do enjoy calling companies that send me guff about spending up large and giving them an earful.

[Akzle]

I think that people should be able to make up their own mind who should be able to read their bank statement and when.

People who meet all their obligations to the bank and the other companies they deal with, shouldn't be made to tell the world their every financial detail.

If you choose to, that's fine. But you should be able to choose not to as well.

technically it's not "your" bank statement. the account is opened through "your" name (capitus diminutio maxima)
but it does not belong to you. it belongs to the corporate fiction. and since the government owns the corporate fiction, guess who's bank account it is?

(srsly, read the Ts&Cs for signing up to a new account some time)

[Zedder]

technically it's not "your" bank statement. the account is opened through "your" name (capitus diminutio maxima)
but it does not belong to you. it belongs to the corporate fiction. and since the government owns the corporate fiction, guess who's bank account it is?

(srsly, read the Ts&Cs for signing up to a new account some time)

I don't think the type of companies mentioned, or any other for that matter, have a target demographic associated with you so you're perfectly safe from being approached anyway.

[Dadpole]

Because I am an obtuse bastard, I emailed Telescum to revoke any positive credit reporting and got this back:

Dear Keith

Thank you for contacting Telecom.

Comprehensive Credit Reporting is supported by the Privacy Commissioner and the New Zealand Credit Industry.

Prior to this amendment credit reports only contained negative data such as payment defaults now they can contain positive data including payment history. The inclusion of positive data will give credit lenders a more accurate and complete picture of a customer's credit worthiness, so I really feel that this is actually a very good thing, and a much fairer (not to mention accurate) way of doing things.

As an industry leader Telecom will be supporting Comprehensive Credit Reporting and believes that the changes this brings to the New Zealand Credit industry and individuals are positive.

Telecom is not providing an option to exclude individual customer information however consideration may be given on a case by case basis where exceptional circumstances exist. If you would like to be considered to be excluded for this, please let me know why and I will be happy to escalate this to the appropriate team on your behalf.

The credit disclosure and customer Terms & Conditions of providing service have been updated to allow for the sharing of customer payment history. You can view the Telecom Terms & Conditions here: www.telecom.co.nz/terms.

If you have any further queries regarding any of your Telecom products and services, please do not hesitate to reply to this email, and I will be happy to help.

Kind regards


Malcolm
Customer Care Online

[Bald Eagle]

So they intend to sell your history to all and sundry. Nothing left but to take my business elsewhere then. No need for landline, prepaid mobile with data .. sorted

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[Akzle]

...
Dear Keith...
Malcolm
Customer Care Online

Dear Malcom,
don't bother escalating it, i've already asked you once. what you may now do is close my account.
if i gave a shit what the government thought about anything, i would have asked them, not you.
As a private company you are refusing to provide service to the level i expect, so go fucking jump.

kind regards,
ex-customer...

[Delerium]

From April 1, each month Telecom and credit agencies like Veda Advantage will start sharing client information.

Each month will see your name, address, DOB, driver licence number, current account balance and the payments you have made for the month shared.

This may suit you, some claim it will help you build a good credit rating.

However, many people see it as an invasion of privacy.


It does require your consent.

Telecom have published an advert saying they intend to do it, your consent is implied.

However if you don't want your personal information sold in this manner, you should go to http://www.telecom.co.nz/helpandsupport/helpandsupport/other/makeacomplaint/ and fill out the form telling them you don't authorise positive credit reporting on your account.


I still question its legality. Silence is not an acceptance - basic contract law.

[Brian d marge]

How bad does it have to get in NZ before anyone actually DOES something

at least I buggered off ...

Stephen

[Akzle]

I still question its legality. Silence is not an acceptance - basic contract law.
uhhh, actually in NZ silence IS consent. just ask the pigs.

you signed a contract with telecom that says they may ammend their T&Cs at any time (without notice) and your continued use of the service construes acceptance of the revised T&Cs...


at least I buggered off ...


boiling frog much?

yes, you did bugger off, and good riddance! :P

[Brian d marge]

boiling frog much?

yes, you did bugger off, and good riddance! :P

boiling frog much? is thant an anagram for "I wish I could"

The grass is greener on the other side !!!

literally

Stephhen

[Akzle]

boiling frog much? is thant an anagram for "I wish I could"

The grass is greener on the other side !!!

literally

Stephhen

no, the theory of the boiling frog. look it up, it will be faster than me explaining.

grass that's green, i smoke. the grass in the paddocks is fucking brown, and telecom can't do shit about that...

-edit-
you still haven't found me a kinife...

[davereid]

Dear Malcom,
don't bother escalating it, i've already asked you once. what you may now do is close my account.
if i gave a shit what the government thought about anything, i would have asked them, not you.
As a private company you are refusing to provide service to the level i expect, so go fucking jump.

kind regards,
ex-customer...


That will be a solution.

Orcon tell me they are not going to do positive credit reporting.

[Brian d marge]

no, the theory of the boiling frog. look it up, it will be faster than me explaining.

grass that's green, i smoke. the grass in the paddocks is fucking brown, and telecom can't do shit about that...

-edit-
you still haven't found me a kinife...

ah Frog soup

<tbody>
1 tbsp olive oil
1 medium leek
1 medium stick celery
225g potato (diced)
1l vegetable stock
280g frozen petits pois
Some grated cheese to sprinkle on top when served




Method 1. Heat the oil in a large saucepan. Add the leek and fry over a medium heat for 5 mins until softened. Add the celery and potato and cook for a further 5 mins.
2. Pour the stock over the vegetables and bring to the boil. Cover, reduce heat and simmer for 15 mins. Add petits pois and simmer further 5 mins until potato is tender.
3. Using a hand blender or food processor, blend the soup until smooth. Reheat if necessary before serving and top with grated cheese.

</tbody>


Stephen

no frogs or french types were hurt in the making of this email

[The Lone Rider]

FYI,

I contacted Telecom about this.

I've had one or two emails saying they will get back to me when the find someone to ask about it.


Today, I received an email. Except the person who sent it forgot to delete the entire back history of the emails progression.

After being passed around by a number of people in accounts and credit, their approvals manager, Sonia Shepherd, has issued a pre-formatted response to people wanting to opt out. It matches what was posted a few messages back by someone else.

You are welcome to contact Sonia and express distaste for their policy of ignoring opt outs, at Sonia.Shepherd@telecom.co.nz

I have her office phone number to if anyone wants to discuss the matter.

[Bald Eagle]

FYI,

I contacted Telecom about this.

, Sonia Shepherd, has issued a pre-formatted response to people wanting to opt out. It matches what was posted a few messages back by someone else.

You are welcome to contact Sonia and express distaste for their policy of ignoring opt outs, at Sonia.Shepherd@telecom.co.nz

I have her office phone number to if anyone wants to discuss the matter.

Don't expect anything other than a repeat of the party line. "Privacy Commissioner says we can so we will yaboo sucks to the customers. :motu:

[davereid]

I think they have been surprised with the number of people saying "no thanks".

And it only takes one Telco, one power utility and one bank to break the cycle, and provide financial privacy to those that choose it.

I understand the companies keen on comprehensive credit reporting are already worried about this and are discussing "reciprocity". So if you have a business that wont play the comprehensive credit reporting game, Veda wont sell you credit reports.

There is a lot of money at stake here for Veda et al, the more personal data they hold, the more they can sell and the better the returns, so its unsurprising that they want to put down any privacy uprising.

[mashman]

Does the same hold true for an organisation? Do Telecom have to pass on the data they hold on a business and their account information etc...?

[davereid]

Many smaller business owners will find they are the account holder even if its officially in the company name. The terms and conditions of many companies, and this may include telecom, attempt to put personal liability on company officers.

But businesses generally don't have any protection whatsoever under privacy law.

[Akzle]

Many smaller business owners will find they are the account holder even if its officially in the company name. The terms and conditions of many companies, and this may include telecom, attempt to put personal liability on company officers.

But businesses generally don't have any protection whatsoever under privacy law.

person= corporation
company= corporation

the banking is no different.