Any plumbers on KB? I have a toilet question

[neels]

Looking at replacing the upstairs crapper in our house when I tile the floor.

The current one that was installed around 40 years ago is vented through the wall which was standard then but seems to be the exception now, so I'm wanting to know if the vent is still required or not.

By way of a vague description, it's almost directly above above the downstairs one which isn't vented (although the pipe is still in place as per the pic), the main sewer vent heads up the wall past it, and at the moment the upstairs vent joins in as it goes past.

Any thoughts from someone that knows about this stuff?

279394

[Edbear]

If your in the Auckland area call Europlumbing 550-6202. Run by my son-in-law and his partners.

[neels]

Not in Auckland unfortunately, in the evil flatlands of Christchurch.

My dad is a plumber so no problem to install a toilet, but he hasn't worked on domestic stuff for about 40 years so isn't up with the regs.

[FJRider]

I'm not sure how (if) it would be written in your local Bylaws ... but ... A vent for a toilet allows air to pass through the drainage system so that when you flush one toilet it doesn't suck the water out of all the other toilets in the house. Also, and more importantly without a vent a vacuum would be created when flushing that would potentially pull back sewer gas. As for where the vent is located, it really depends on the particular house. Older homes tend to have just one larger vent that extends through the roof. In newer homes, local building codes now usually stipulates multiple vents.

I doubt if it would be a good idea to remove a vent.

[Edbear]

Yup! You must be able to vent, no good comes from stifling... :rolleyes:

[skinman]

I am an Architectural Draughtsman
From what I can see in the photo the upstairs toilet would not require any additional vent as the run from the stack is short & I presume no other fittings are connected to it.
The stack appears to be open at the top so there would be no suction generated.
If there are other fittings connected to the same pipe as the upstairs toilet (on the same level) then the pipe would require venting or air admittance valve.
I cannot see the vent you mention from the upstairs toilet (should look similar to the vent from the lower toilet).
If you do vent a fitting from the upper level then the vent should go back to the stack & connect above the fitting connection as the existing vent does (or fit an air admitance valve)

[BMWST?]

The upper floor toilet is the last fixture in the line so doesnt need any extra vent.The downstairs toilet doesnt need an extra vent either as it is open to the air.The vent from downstairs might be from a handbasin ,not from the toilet.pretty sure the venting system is similar to the old days,just the sizes of the pipes have changed and we are more likely to have it all hidden rather than all over the outside of the building like we used too

[skinman]

I see the upper vent you talk about
Bet thats a cistern overflow (old style)
the new cisterns overflow into the bowl
to small to be a fitting vent anyway
they are 65mm

[neels]

Thanks guys, you've prompted me to have a proper look :bash:


The upper floor toilet is the last fixture in the line so doesnt need any extra vent.The downstairs toilet doesnt need an extra vent either as it is open to the air.The vent from downstairs might be from a handbasin ,not from the toilet.pretty sure the venting system is similar to the old days,just the sizes of the pipes have changed and we are more likely to have it all hidden rather than all over the outside of the building like we used too

That was my thinking, that the waste was inside the wall and vented to outside, I was thinking wrong. The vent from downstairs comes out where the wall between the laundry and toilet used to be, the toilet has been relocated and in the half arsed fashion that everything else in this house has been done the vent pipe has been left where it was.


I am an Architectural Draughtsman
From what I can see in the photo the upstairs toilet would not require any additional vent as the run from the stack is short & I presume no other fittings are connected to it.
The stack appears to be open at the top so there would be no suction generated.
If there are other fittings connected to the same pipe as the upstairs toilet (on the same level) then the pipe would require venting or air admittance valve.
I cannot see the vent you mention from the upstairs toilet (should look similar to the vent from the lower toilet).
If you do vent a fitting from the upper level then the vent should go back to the stack & connect above the fitting connection as the existing vent does (or fit an air admitance valve)


I see the upper vent you talk about
Bet thats a cistern overflow (old style)
the new cisterns overflow into the bowl
to small to be a fitting vent anyway
they are 65mm

You're right, what I was assuming was a vent from the upstairs loo is in fact the waste from a side exit pan, it would involve more serious pipework to change it so I guess it stays as it is but the upside is that it makes it easy to lift it to tile the floor and then put it back. I wasn't meaning the cistern overflow, I know what they look like and how they dribble when the ballcock is buggered.

Shame you're in Auckland, I might be looking for someone soon with a few clues about them to turn vague scribblings on a bit of paper into something resembling proper house plans...

[neels]

Back to plumbers and toilets, same shit, different house (almost)......

I have a rather soggy kitchen ceiling thanks to a leaking toilet upstairs, and the insurance company requires me to have a plumber to come and inspect said leak to establish if it is a recent event or gradual damage, I can only assume in an attempt to limit how much they need to pay me. I've told them where it's coming from and that it's only just started happening, apparently that isn't good enough, nor is the word of the 2 plumbers in my family who can tell them for nothing.

So now I need a plumber who can come and assess the leak from the toilet and decide if it's been there for ages or has just happened, to advise the insurance company so they can come and fix my house.

Any plumbers out there in KB land who can help out, or any recommendations of generally good bastards that I can call?

[Akzle]

git r moisture meter with prongs. Start pronging shit (write it down for your insurance gits)

if joist is moist, on the back side (pun intended) your shits been there a while.

[neels]

git r moisture meter with prongs. Start pronging shit (write it down for your insurance gits)

if joist is moist, on the back side (pun intended) your shits been there a while.
Don't need a moisture meter, it's fucking wet. Has been leaking inside the wall and across the floor under the vinyl to under the shower (did I mention that I spent Sunday morning removing a shower). Floor is wet, ceiling in kitchen is fucked, bottom plates upstairs only wet half way up and dry on the top with no mould etc so only a recent thing.

Fortunately the leak is small enough that there is no shit to deal with, but being upstairs I can get in the roof the other side of the wall and see exactly where it's coming from when the toilet is flushed.

Insurance company and their jew masters want me to keep the economy going by paying someone else to tell them exactly what I already know and have told them.

[Akzle]

Don't need a moisture meter, it's fucking wet.

good luck explaing THAT to a phone jockey at your insurance company.

[neels]

good luck explaing THAT to a phone jockey at your insurance company.
To be fair, I suspect the phone jockey was struggling to understood what a 'ceiling' or 'upstairs' was when I was talking to them.

[neels]

good luck explaing THAT to a phone jockey at your insurance company.
To be fair, I suspect the phone jockey was struggling to understood what a 'ceiling' or 'upstairs' was when I was talking to them.

Can't be sure, but they may be living in a cardboard box somewhere in India, which would make this understandable

[JimO]

tell me about the tiling the floor bit

[neels]

tell me about the tiling the floor bit
Haven't got around to tiling the floor in the bathroom yet, they're still stacked in the garage waiting for me to decide if I wanted to put in a new shower that could more comfortably accommodate 2 people before I got too keen.

Procrastination is your friend, if I had got around to it I'd be even more Mr Grumpyface right now.

[JimO]

if you want any tiling advice let me know

[neels]

No drama with tiling, since I've owned houses 3 bathrooms and 3 toilets, and 70 sqm of floor on underlay over chipboard at our last house I think I've got it pretty much sussed. Just takes so bloody long....

Advice from my brother who was a plumber was to always lift the toilet (or replace, as it's unlikely to come out in one piece) and tile under. He reckoned after being called to a house repeatedly by an elderly lady for a supposedly leaking toilet that had been tiled and grouted around, was finding a polite way to tell her that she needed to tell her husband to stop pissing on the floor.