Beginner photography: What DSLR camera to buy? Anyone selling?

[nzbiker86]

Hey there

not sure if anyone on here is into photography but Ive recently been given a voucher for course. I'm searching round, but dont want to spend a fortune on something that may just be a fad.

Any models I should be looking out for or avoiding?

Cheers

Rich

[Oakie]

How much you want to pay?
Do you want to take photos of what you see and leave them untouched or do you want to phuck about with them and make the grass blue and the sky green etc?

Also consider a 'bridge camera' ... half way between a point and shoot and a DSLR. It has all the gimmicky buttons and options but not the big expensive lenses. Much easier to carry around with you ... especially on a bike!

[huff3r]

Canon is probably the widest sold brand in New Zealand, followed by Nikon, however Canon accessories tend to be cheaper. The basic Canon 1000D will do much of what the fancier models do, so is probably a good start. I have a 550D. The Auto modes all take very good photos, I mostly only use the more customisable modes if I want to play around... eg have a shallow depth of field, or photograph something at night.

[FJRider]

Pop in here and ask ....

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/group.php?groupid=95

[steve_t]

Find out if any of your mates have Canon, Nikon or Sony DSLRs. Sharing lenses is probably the most important thing you want to start with, especially if you're not sure you'll keep your gear. Entry level has everything at much of a muchness, really. Currently, at the top end, Nikon is slightly better than Canon but before the latest models Canon was ahead for a long time. Due to this, established pro photographers will generally have Canon gear.
You can generally get stuff second hand for quite cheap. Otherwise, you can grab a new Canon 1100D or Nikon D3100 as entry level gear.
Also, there are third party lenses like Sigma. Sigma lenses are generally cheaper but apart from a few really amazing lenses, they seem a little slower to focus and a bit noisier

[Berg]

I have a D5000 Nikon and love it. If looking at a DSLR the two to consider are the Cannon and the Nikon both which come often as a twin lense and camera body kit.
I went the Nikon because at that stage it was the only one that had a flip out screen which is handy for my work as I need to take photos in weird places and at strange angles. Cannon also now do a flip out, multi angle screen.
The kicker with the Nikon, the camera body does not have the auto focus system rather it is in each individual lense. This makes any replacement or upgrade lenses expensive as they contain electrical motors to drive the auto focus. The Cannon has it all built into the camera body meaning any Cannon lenses will auto focus.
WARNING!!!!!!! DSLR cameras are addictive. Its a world of new lenses, filters, bags, cleaners, monopods, tripods, flashes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and you just can't stop.

[Hugo Nougo]

gpforums has a good photography section as well, a dslr of any kind is only the start, to get the most out of it you have to commit to buying lenses, zoom, wide-angle, macro the list goes on. If you're not sure $600-700 for a high res super zoom with manual and raw format options is a great compromise, I have an old nikon D80 (20,000 shutter count) with a few cheap lenses gathering dust, good start camera, $350 ?.

[Tigadee]

Bridge cameras are probably the best option for those keen starters - less expensive than a DSLR with a whole bag of lenses but with similar flexibility.

Only things bridge cameras don't do well are shallow depth of field/focus [DOF] shots [with blurred background for portraits although software can duplicate fairly well nowadays] and action photos [the autofocus can't keep up as well as a DSLR].

Some older model Fuji bridge cameras are excellent, such as the S100 and S200EXR, with about 14x zoom, viewfinder and LCD, body like a DSLR, many controls like a DSLR and fairly quick. Even 2nd hand units still fetch a high price. The newer models compromise megapixels for light sensitivty and are horrible even with their CMOS sensors. Same for the Panasonic super zooms too, so avoid them.

Canon and Nikon's compact bridge cameras are pretty good too, such as the Nikon P7100. You can also check out the mirrorless mini-DSLRs but they are pretty expensive, not sure if I can call them ideal starter cameras.

Check out Steve Digicams (http://www.steves-digicams.com/) or [more technical] DPreview (http://www.dpreview.com/). They have comparison guides and buying guides...

[Grubber]

I have just brought a 1100D Canon for my daughters birthday and it does nearly everyting my 500d does.
It came with a twin lens kit and all the bits and pieces for a mere $799.
Not too bad value i didn't think.
These are both very good cameras. I have had Canon for many years and they have been amazing.

[Oakie]

Bridge cameras are probably the best option for those keen starters - less expensive than a DSLR with a whole bag of lenses but with similar flexibility.

Indeed. I looked at a stack of bridge cameras when I bought mine about 3 years ago and finished up with a Canon Powershot SX20. Ticked all the boxes for me. Tigadee's comments above are spot on but the biggest benefit for me is not needing to carry extra lenses around. If you are not sure if it's just a passing fad, a bridge camera is a good place to start out,

[Tigadee]

And don't knock older DSLRs like the Canon 400D, or Nikon D80. These still do a really good job with not much difference in performance compared to new models. Main difference is in megapixel count, where at the moment more isn't always better as more pixels are packed into the same sensor area or smaller.

Consumers like typical sheep bleat for more ("24 megapixels must be better than 12, right?") thinking it's better, and the companies happily comply because that's cheaper than trying to develop new tech for sensors or make better systems. Good article (http://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/2988/why-you-dont-need-more-megapixels-really/) on this.

Still, it's amazing how far the technology has come since 2000 when I bought my first digital camera. Still remember it too, the Fuji Finepix MX1200 for a whopping 1.2 megapixels and no zoom! Went through alkaline AA batteries like a rabbit through carrots (only a couple of hours) until I bought a set of the first ever rechargeable AA batteries, which lasted a day.

[Genestho]

It depends on what you're willing to pay (the sky's the limit), what you intend on shooting, will you shoot/edit in raw format (Raw is best, Jpeg is good enough but, less pixels.) and what is the intended outcome for images?

If you're looking at doing a course, I'd start out with a mid range new camera with kit lenses, or a second hand option that you can upgrade with better glass before upgrading the body. Canon or Nikon are generally the main preferences.

Also what does the course cover and what perks could you get with the course? You might find as part of the course you'll learn a lot about equipment and have a better understanding of what YOU need, or will you get discounts.

Speaking with experience here, I bought new equipment before a course (not photography) and ended up learning I didn't need to. I'd be finding that out, before spending money.

Warning: Very addictive, very expensive, if you decide you need MOAR lenses, moar accesories. Although, there are good second hand or non brand name options out there, just as good. :D

[Asher]

You can't really go wrong with getting a canon or Nikon but brands like pentax, Olympus, Sony etc are all good.
You can also look at micro 4\3rd cameras. They are basically dslrs but use a electronic shutter so are much smaller, they used basically the same sensors as dslrs so the image quality is just as good but they tend to have less lenses available but they are great if you don't want to drag around a big camera

[huff3r]

Personally I don't get smaller "micro" cameras. My DSLR is already too small to get a decent steady grip on (I need a tripod/monopod or something!). Probably doesn't help that my hands are massive. The other bonus of DSLRs is that most can shoot very good cinema quality HD video. But if you're gonna do that you will need a big memory card, and a expanded battery pack... making the camera even bigger and bulkier! (Easier to hold?)

[Maki]

DSLRs are outdated. I can not understand why anyone would want one, unless it is a pro model with a full frame sensor. The only reason I can see for people buying a new entry level DSLR is that they like bulk and weight.

Investigate the excellent mirror less cameras from Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji.

[imdying]

DSLRs are outdated. I can not understand why anyone would want one, unless it is a pro model with a full frame sensor. The only reason I can see for people buying a new entry level DSLR is that they like bulk and weight.

Investigate the excellent mirror less cameras from Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji.
+1 on that, most definitely worth having a good look at those.

[Big Dave]

The glass is the most important bit of the camera and the big advantage the DSLRs have is you can change it.

For a beginner - changing not so important.

[slofox]

I used to be a total photog nut. But these days I work quite happily with a "bridge" camera - a Fuji S5 something or other. Does everything I need and did not break the bank to buy.

10x optical zoom (more would be nice) 5Meg. Don't really want much more resolution since the file sizes get ginormous real quick. I can print an A4 print with better res on the paper than I got with the film cameras of yore.

[Swoop]

I have been looking at getting a DSLR camera for a while now. What puts me off is the "outdatedness" that happens so quickly in electronics and also the "closeness" of megapixel capacity of the DSLR Vs the "bridge" cameras.
My Canon Powershot 120 has full manual controls for aperture and shutter, fits in a pocket and is extremely good pixel-wise.
I have done many years of dragging around a bag of lenses and can see both sides of the modern fence, however.

The Mrs even gave me a Samsung camera with built-in features which make things "arty" like the option of taking the shot with effects like "pencil sketch", "cartoon", "fisheye", etc. I still end up pocketing the Canon, even for overseas trips.



The other bonus of DSLRs is that most can shoot very good cinema quality HD video.
You might be surprised to know that certain tv programmes are "filmed" using a DSLR camera, right here in NZ!

[NordieBoy]

The kicker with the Nikon, the camera body does not have the auto focus system rather it is in each individual lense. This makes any replacement or upgrade lenses expensive as they contain electrical motors to drive the auto focus. The Cannon has it all built into the camera body meaning any Cannon lenses will auto focus.

The Canon auto focus is built into the lens just the same as for the Nikon.

Sony Alpha's have stabilisation built in to the camera body so all lenses are anti shake.

[NordieBoy]

I have been looking at getting a DSLR camera for a while now. What puts me off is the "outdatedness" that happens so quickly in electronics and also the "closeness" of megapixel capacity of the DSLR Vs the "bridge" cameras.
A good old 8mp Canon 20D with some good glass is still a very good camera.


You might be surprised to know that certain tv programmes are "filmed" using a DSLR camera, right here in NZ!
The 3D effects in the Matrix were too.

[nzbiker86]

Wow, thanks the replies, was really helpful. I managed to pick up a second hand canon 350d in really good condition for $200, just to learn the basics on. If it turns out I don't like it I can resell for that price no problem or I'll just pass it onto the mrs!

I have spoken to quite a few people now and the general view is that decent pictures can be taken on most cameras even older models, and after viewing some pictures and reviews of the 350d I decided to take a chance with a cheeky bid. Although I have it's say, generally I have found 2nd hand items of anykind seem to hold value in nz. In the uk generally anything second hand I would always expect it to half in price as a seller and a buyer. Here a second hand 1100D was fetching $550 only $70 less than new.....crazy! Unfortunately I was thinking about cameras when I was in Singapore last month....I prob could have grabbed a bargain, oh well.

It may be that I turn to one of these hybrid style SLRs in the future, the Sony Nex models look really nice. Infact I had a Sony T99, maybe even the model before that, 5mp, and took brill photos and latest my 8 years until the sensor failed!

[Big Dave]

This is old now - but still OK:

http://www.davidcohen.co/how.html

[Tigadee]

I managed to pick up a second hand canon 350d in really good condition for $200, just to learn the basics on.

Good catch. It is a good camera and will satisfy your needs.

Tip: The 350D has a tendency to underexpose, so setting and leaving your EV Compensation to +0.3 or +0.7 will cure that.

Here's an article (http://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/19/exposure-value/) on how to set and use EV Compensation.

[nzbiker86]

Cheers dude, I thought I haven't a clue how to do that....then the link :rolleyes:

Will definitely give that a browse.

[Asher]

What lens did you get with it? Just the 18-55mm or something a bit better?

[Shortie]

The 350d is a great camera to learn on, not much to confuse you and takes great photos- to get better photos just takes better glass.

[Akzle]

nikon d1x with sigma lenses.

[nzbiker86]

EFS 18-55mm lens, 2 battery packs, 3 memory cards, all manuals etc and it's in really good cond, just collected in, very happy. This will keep me occupied for a long time, not a clue what half the icons mean!

[steve_t]

EFS 18-55mm lens, 2 battery packs, 3 memory cards, all manuals etc and it's in really good cond, just collected in, very happy. This will keep me occupied for a long time, not a clue what half the icons mean!

A beginner's workshop will explain all the settings are and what they do in quick time. Either that or you can just have a play and ask people as you go. But I recommend a workshop. They're pretty cheap

[Swoop]

I was thinking about cameras when I was in Singapore last month....I prob could have grabbed a bargain, oh well.

Glad you have found a camera!

As for Singapore airport, I went through there a couple of months back and didn't really find it as cheap as to be expected. Perhaps in the city is better priced?

[Snails pace]

I was once told that a crappy camera with a better lens will give better photos then a good camera with a crappy lens.

[Big Dave]

I was once told that a crappy camera with a better lens will give better photos then a good camera with a crappy lens.

Yeah - Like I said up top - I think in general that is true, but then I've been on the high horse about generalisations lately.

There's a bloke on here that takes interesting photos using a hole in some cardboard.

In most cases of production - crap in - crap out - but its all relative.

The guy I bought my Cannon off told me the kit lens was rubbish and I should upgrade it immediately.

I made more out of 1 photo I took with that lens than the value of the entire kit.

It came up in conversation the other day:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/157367-Hey-Big-Dave!

There's two quotes I use to keep it in perspective (pun intended)

'There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.' - Ansel Adams

'My idea of a good photograph is one that is in focus and has a famous person in it.' - Andy Warhol.