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scracha
16th March 2013, 16:08
So back in the day, did anyone fit a CBR600 motor into a ZXR400 frame?

gammaguy
16th March 2013, 16:16
So back in the day, did anyone fit a CBR600 motor into a ZXR400 frame?

Why bother

How about an H2 engine in a ZXR 400 frame now yer talkin

sharky
19th March 2013, 13:50
So back in the day, did anyone fit a CBR600 motor into a ZXR400 frame?

Duncan is running one this season in Posties cuzzie.

bistard
19th March 2013, 15:42
So back in the day, did anyone fit a CBR600 motor into a ZXR400 frame?

As close as anybody in NZ got, was Tony Mcmurdo,who made a carbon fibre chassis & ran a
ZZR600 motor, was quite trick back then

malcy25
20th March 2013, 13:27
So back in the day, did anyone fit a CBR600 motor into a ZXR400 frame?

Why, is there a problem?

scracha
21st March 2013, 22:57
As close as anybody in NZ got, was Tony Mcmurdo,who made a carbon fibre chassis & ran a
ZZR600 motor, was quite trick back then
He'd have been clever as the ZZR600 never came out until 1990. Maybe he used a late GPZ600R motor (a.k.a. ZX600 A5) or the higher powered GPX600R motor back then (a.k.a. zx600c)? GPX motor around 85 ponies vs early ZZR600D motor around 95 ponies.


Why, is there a problem?
I think there's a problem if nobody had done it by 1989, as per rule 25.2.2. If someone could clarify it was done (like the FZR400/600 and CBR400/600) then I wouldn't mind getting one myself as I have a CBR600 motor sat begging for a nice beefy frame with wider 17" wheels, 4 pot brakes, bigger front disks and upside down forks.

Seems a bit strange, since I got told I couldn't put a ZXR400 front end on my CBR400 "cos nobody put ZXR400 front ends on other 400's back then"

malcy25
22nd March 2013, 11:46
I think there's a problem if nobody had done it by 1989, as per rule 25.2.2. If someone could clarify it was done (like the FZR400/600 and CBR400/600) then I wouldn't mind getting one myself as I have a CBR600 motor sat begging for a nice beefy frame with wider 17" wheels, 4 pot brakes, bigger front disks and upside down forks.



Modifications to major components are allowed, providing that such modifications are visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used during this period. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine.

So no one, ever, put a different engine into a bike prior to 1989?

Okay, being a bit on the nose, but the rule is more than a little interpretive. The primary aim is to for example, not turn your RZ350 tube frame into a beam frame by welding in a whole lotta metal and removing all the old redundant tubes, or similar type mods. By all means, reqrite the rule and submit a remit if you think the gap could be closed up.

BUT sitting here, we are not privy to what The owner has provided as proof. He may well have done his homework, delivered to the appropriate people and it's up to him to share with anyone else. Those within the class and finish races are all eligible to protest. I have seen protests in pre 82 accepted and held up at major meetings, so it does happen.

sharky
22nd March 2013, 12:20
As far as I know he asked the question before he started the build so must have been given the nod.

The more competition the better anyway... speaking of which, ain't seen you on the track for a long while Stevie - come out and have a play at the last round of AMCC in a couple of weeks.

Peter Smith
22nd March 2013, 13:53
Modifications to major components are allowed, providing that such modifications are visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used during this period. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine.

So no one, ever, put a different engine into a bike prior to 1989?

Okay, being a bit on the nose, but the rule is more than a little interpretive. The primary aim is to for example, not turn your RZ350 tube frame into a beam frame by welding in a whole lotta metal and removing all the old redundant tubes, or similar type mods. By all means, reqrite the rule and submit a remit if you think the gap could be closed up.

BUT sitting here, we are not privy to what The owner has provided as proof. He may well have done his homework, delivered to the appropriate people and it's up to him to share with anyone else. Those within the class and finish races are all eligible to protest. I have seen protests in pre 82 accepted and held up at major meetings, so it does happen.

The problem is we could be heading down the slippery slope where a bike is built by using best components that were available. e.g. motor from one make, forks from another, brakes another make, frame etc etc. Ending with a bike that is nothing like what was raced in the day. I believe USD forks could only be used on the ZXR400s as that was standard.
Could everyone fit zxr 400 USD to what ever they race? The class would look quite odd.

Rcktfsh
22nd March 2013, 15:05
I've got a major problem with Duncan he rides to fast :baby:

malcy25
22nd March 2013, 16:16
where a bike is built by using best components that were available. e.g. motor from one make, forks from another, brakes another make, frame etc etc

Pete, being devils advocate, Isn't that what our F1 / F2 / F3 classes were about? Building the best out and out race bike you could, while proddie classes were the stock standard stuff? Ok F1 was more likely to use aftermarket stuff and not OEM parts, but referring to Tony McMurdo's bikes, he built a pretty competitive F3 bike in the day using a VFR750 frame and GPz500 motor, In about 88 it was being used.

Tony's ZZR600 carbon bike was about 91/92 cos he was doing meetings I was at at Ruapuna, Bay Park etc when I was on my RS. (you may have been there also?)


I believe USD forks could only be used on the ZXR400s as that was standard. Could everyone fit zxr 400 USD to what ever they race? The class would look quite odd.

Exactly. The fork rule stipulates USD where OEM fitment and to allow for someone turning up with Lucinelli's 851 Corsa etc which had period Ohlins. So no ZXR forks should not be appearing everywhere. Truth be told are ZXR400 forks much chop? Probably not compared to OW01 forks which are reputed to be the best RWU forks ever produced on a Jap bike and if you got your hands on a set, could be fitted to any pre 89 bike.

As I mentioned in response to Steve's post, now there is more experience with it, those in the class may like to start thinking about what they would like that rule to look like to close it up, and get a remit in, but it does need to be done in a manner that does not exclude what was done in the day or the aftermarket stuff that was available (bloody hard).

scracha
22nd March 2013, 18:11
Modifications to major components are allowed, providing that such modifications are visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used during this period. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine.

So no one, ever, put a different engine into a bike prior to 1989?

Yep....they did. They did CBR 6/4's and they did FZR 6/4's. I'm asking if anyone did a ZXR4/CBR6 combo.



Okay, being a bit on the nose, but the rule is more than a little interpretive. The primary aim is to for example, not turn your RZ350 tube frame into a beam frame by welding in a whole lotta metal and removing all the old redundant tubes, or similar type mods. By all means, reqrite the rule and submit a remit if you think the gap could be closed up.

I thought the primary aim was to as much as possible, reproduce what was raced in 1989. Spirit of the era and all that



BUT sitting here, we are not privy to what The owner has provided as proof. He may well have done his homework, delivered to the appropriate people and it's up to him to share with anyone else. Those within the class and finish races are all eligible to protest. I have seen protests in pre 82 accepted and held up at major meetings, so it does happen.
So if I were to build the exact same bike, I'd have to do my own research and find the exact same proof? Seems a bit odd. Surely I could just ask the posties assoc if it's eligible?


As far as I know he asked the question before he started the build so must have been given the nod.
The more competition the better anyway... speaking of which, ain't seen you on the track for a long while Stevie - come out and have a play at the last round of AMCC in a couple of weeks.
Thanks for the invite Sharky. Just getting Frankencane all sorted again. Few wee niggles to iron out...namely both SETS of front disks are warped. Did superbike school thing last weekend and by gawd I was rusty lol. I'll wait until I get Billy's bill and do some trackdays again before I get beaten by your ZXR450 turbo again :innocent:.


The problem is we could be heading down the slippery slope where a bike is built by using best components that were available. e.g. motor from one make, forks from another, brakes another make, frame etc etc. Ending with a bike that is nothing like what was raced in the day. I believe USD forks could only be used on the ZXR400s as that was standard.
Could everyone fit zxr 400 USD to what ever they race? The class would look quite odd.
Agreed.


Pete, being devils advocate, Isn't that what our F1 / F2 / F3 classes were about? Building the best out and out race bike you could,

They were. But to my mind, that's not what Post Classics iss about. It's about reproducing the best bike that was raced back then and having FUN. I could be wrong.



while proddie classes were the stock standard stuff? Ok F1 was more likely to use aftermarket stuff and not OEM parts, but referring to Tony McMurdo's bikes, he built a pretty competitive F3 bike in the day using a VFR750 frame and GPz500 motor, In about 88 it was being used.
If there's some super hot weird combo out there that was used back then that destroyed all in its path, then it's all good to recreate it now.



As I mentioned in response to Steve's post, now there is more experience with it, those in the class may like to start thinking about what they would like that rule to look like to close it up, and get a remit in, but it does need to be done in a manner that does not exclude what was done in the day or the aftermarket stuff that was available (bloody hard).

Manufactured needs to be changed to something like "publically available" or even "sold in dealerships". Who knows if Kawasaki had a ZZR600 or Honda had a CBR600F2 manufactured and in testing in 1989? I believe Yamaha were playing with a 28 valve head and settled on 20 valves for the fizzy thou.

"Modifications proven to have been used during the period"........ wee bit ambiguous. Should be tightened. How about :-
"Combinations of modifications proven to have been raced during the period"

To be honest, I'd also love to see wets, warmers and slicks banned from the class (maybe after 12 months notice). Pump fuel only too.

Peter Smith
22nd March 2013, 18:40
[
Who knows if Kawasaki had a ZZR600..... in 1989? .[/QUOTE]

There already is a ZZR600 racing in pre'89s. Raced him at Paeroa.

malcy25
22nd March 2013, 18:54
Steve

Excellent reponse, I like where you are thinking on most of it. Especially "They were. But to my mind, that's not what Post Classics iss about. It's about reproducing the best bike that was raced back then and having FUN. I could be wrong." I wish more people had that view.

But there are little gotchas though in there that you have to think about. E.g., Pump fuel , what about all the TZ's, RS's and god knows what else etc that need 100+ octane or Avgas etc and never ran on anything else.....what does "pump fuel" mean. I've used avgas for years in my strokers and it came out of a "pump":)

Re Duncan's work to get a bike approved - he's done the home work - it's HIS knowledge / IP. It's up to YOU to prove your bike is eligible and this is as it is written in the rule book.

primary - aim of rule 25.2.2 - see you and I interpret it differently which means that it could be tightened. hence my suggestion that you to close that ambiguity. My view is that the underlying rules are all about what you read into that rule. I read that rule to mean as per my suggestion about creating a beam frame RZ350. Right now you can only work with what is there.

Stick your suggestion in, or send it to kevin Grey via the posties website (better). I'd ditch the pump fuel only bit, but the other suggestion around dating etc has merit and I have previoulsy suggested that the Aussie datiung process is adopted (which is similar). The mods suggestion looks good too. The big thing you need to watch for is that this is not production racing and not all bikes are production bikes.

keep going and get your bike out.

scracha
22nd March 2013, 22:24
[
Who knows if Kawasaki had a ZZR600..... in 1989? .

There already is a ZZR600 racing in pre'89s. Raced him at Paeroa.[/QUOTE]

And I've raced one at the vic club. Like CBR400's with a gull arms and later ZXR400's racing in Pre 89 , it doesn't mean the bike was actually eligible.....just that nobody gave a shit ;) If the guy had been had the pointy end of the field it would have been noticed.


How about pump fuel on the 4 strokes then?



The 2 strokes need all the help they can get anyway

Peter Smith
23rd March 2013, 09:03
There already is a ZZR600 racing in pre'89s. Raced him at Paeroa.

If the guy had been had the pointy end of the field it would have been noticed.

[/QUOTE]

Peter Smith
23rd March 2013, 09:13
If the guy had been had the pointy end of the field it would have been noticed.

[/QUOTE]

ZZR600 were available in NZ at the end of 1989. They are a 1990 model but as it was available before December 1989 it is legal.
As the rules stand any 1990 models including USD forked GSXR are eligible as most were available before December 1989.
I have brought this up many times but the rules were not changed, hence a ZZR600 is eligible.
Aussie have the same problem, their pre'95 class now includes 96-97 GSXR750s as they were available before December cut off date.
Ideally the cut off date should be July.

roadracingoldfart
24th March 2013, 07:58
Re Duncan's work to get a bike approved - he's done the home work - it's HIS knowledge / IP. It's up to YOU to prove your bike is eligible and this is as it is written in the rule book.




So .....
I could build the same bike as this Duncan gentleman and then if i was asked for proof of eligability i could simply state " his is leagal so as we are in the same class its all good " , i could then just tag on to his evidence of eligability and it could never be refused as it seems the evidence thats asked for is " was it done in the day" ? this is taken care of if a guy has already had it approved by the governing body, therfore anybody can copy a pre approved format. Am i reading that too simply ???
PS; I did a few things in the day to my bikes that would never be as good as some proddie bikes lol and i was running F2 .
Paul.

malcy25
24th March 2013, 15:48
So .....
I could build the same bike as this Duncan gentleman and then if i was asked for proof of eligability i could simply state " his is leagal so as we are in the same class its all good " , i could then just tag on to his evidence of eligability and it could never be refused as it seems the evidence thats asked for is " was it done in the day" ? this is taken care of if a guy has already had it approved by the governing body, therfore anybody can copy a pre approved format. Am i reading that too simply ???
PS; I did a few things in the day to my bikes that would never be as good as some proddie bikes lol and i was running F2 .
Paul.

Read the rule book.

malcy25
24th March 2013, 15:56
So .....
I could build the same bike as this Duncan gentleman and then if i was asked for proof of eligability i could simply state " his is leagal so as we are in the same class its all good " , i could then just tag on to his evidence of eligability and it could never be refused as it seems the evidence thats asked for is " was it done in the day" ? this is taken care of if a guy has already had it approved by the governing body, therfore anybody can copy a pre approved format. Am i reading that too simply ???
PS; I did a few things in the day to my bikes that would never be as good as some proddie bikes lol and i was running F2 .
Paul.



25.2.2. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine.

IF you are the one riding the bike or being protested it is up to YOU to prove it. NO ONE ELSE. Dribbling about every one else doing it will probably get the same result as saying to the coppa's, every one else was going 120, so you have to let me off. They may be next in the protest queue anyway.

1) Assume is make an ASS out U and ME.
2) Never believe everything you think.

roadracingoldfart
25th March 2013, 05:52
25.2.2. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine.

IF you are the one riding the bike or being protested it is up to YOU to prove it. NO ONE ELSE. Dribbling about every one else doing it will probably get the same result as saying to the coppa's, every one else was going 120, so you have to let me off. They may be next in the protest queue anyway.

1) Assume is make an ASS out U and ME.
2) Never believe everything you think.

Im not an ass , im on the other side :facepalm:
I never believe anything i think i read.

Peter Smith
25th March 2013, 18:51
Im not an ass , im on the other side :facepalm:
I never believe anything i think i read.

Email the NZPCRA Technical Commitee http://www.nzpostclassics.org.nz/contact.php
and if its OK keep the email as proof.
Easy as .........

roadracingoldfart
26th March 2013, 06:22
Email the NZPCRA Technical Commitee http://www.nzpostclassics.org.nz/contact.php
and if its OK keep the email as proof.
Easy as .........


Shit Peter , dont think for a second i want to build a Kawasaki , my god man are you insane

Peter Smith
26th March 2013, 06:34
Shit Peter , dont think for a second i want to build a Kawasaki , my god man are you insane

Its a Honda, with a funny frame thingy.

roadracingoldfart
26th March 2013, 19:15
Its a Honda, with a funny frame thingy.


Ohh well thats ok then , its those Green things and the Suzuki's that worry me a bit.

scracha
28th March 2013, 21:16
ZZR600 were available in NZ at the end of 1989. They are a 1990 model but as it was available before December 1989 it is legal.


I don't think so. Unless NZ was the first country on the planet to get them...5 months ahead of the rest of the planet....seems a bit unlikely.

Everything I've read Kawasaki's has the ZZR600 coming out in Australia and Europe in April 1990. You're possibly confusing with GPX600.

Kickaha
28th March 2013, 21:26
Every forum on Kawasaki's has the ZZR600 coming out in April 1990.

The rules only state "manufactured" not available

So long as it was manufactured prior to the end of December 1989 and isn't specicially excluded then it "should" be legal

scracha
28th March 2013, 21:51
The rules only state "manufactured" not available

So long as it was manufactured prior to the end of December 1989 and isn't specifically excluded then it "should" be legal


http://www.scribd.com/doc/21982482/Kawasaki-ZZR-600-90-92-Service-Manual

Onis is on proving it was manufactured on or before 1989, otherwise I'll be bringing along a 1994 Ducati 916 and leaving it to everyone to prove it wasn't manufactured in 1989.

Manufactured applies to complete machine, including rego plate holder :innocent:

Kickaha
29th March 2013, 06:04
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21982482/Kawasaki-ZZR-600-90-92-Service-Manual

Onis is on proving it was manufactured on or before 1989, otherwise I'll be bringing along a 1994 Ducati 916 and leaving it to everyone to prove it wasn't manufactured in 1989.

Manufactured applies to complete machine, including rego plate holder :innocent:

Doesn't work like that, it's up to the competitior to provide the proof of legality and then if the NZPCRA dont like it they'll get a rule done to specifically exclude it anyway like they did with the RZ350 in pre82


Not that it's proof but
http://www.bikesales.com.au/reviews/2000/road/kawasaki/zz-r600/kawasaki-zzr600-13935
Much has changed in the marketplace since the ZZ-R's worldwide release back in 1989.

scracha
29th March 2013, 08:00
Doesn't work like that, it's up to the competitior to provide the proof of legality and then if the NZPCRA dont like it they'll get a rule done to specifically exclude it anyway like they did with the RZ350 in pre82


Not that it's proof but
http://www.bikesales.com.au/reviews/2000/road/kawasaki/zz-r600/kawasaki-zzr600-13935
Much has changed in the marketplace since the ZZ-R's worldwide release back in 1989.

One factually incorrect article that contradicts itself further down the article. Couldn't have been a worldwide release in 89 of Australia didn't get it until 1990.

"D1 DEBUT
The original ZZ-R600, dubbed the D1, first saw the light of Australia in early 1990, with the E model entering the market in 1993. The 2001 model is designated the E9."

Peter Smith
29th March 2013, 08:03
I don't think so. Unless NZ was the first country on the planet to get them...5 months ahead of the rest of the planet....seems a bit unlikely.

Everything I've read Kawasaki's has the ZZR600 coming out in Australia and Europe in April 1990. You're possibly confusing with GPX600.

Go into any bike shop in November and you can buy next years model. I believe the ZZR600 in question was register end of 89. A friend of mine had a 1990 GSXR1100L with the upside down forks that was registered in Dec 89 but was told it wouldn't be eligible for pre89's, he could have forced the issue but instead races a 89 K model.

scracha
29th March 2013, 17:11
Go into any bike shop in November and you can buy next years model. I believe the ZZR600 in question was register end of 89. A friend of mine had a 1990 GSXR1100L with the upside down forks that was registered in Dec 89 but was told it wouldn't be eligible for pre89's, he could have forced the issue but instead races a 89 K model.

Hey, if someone can demonstrate their local bike shop had a ZZR600 for sale in 1989 then I'll rush out and buy one as with 98 pones (before tuning) they'd piss over everything else in Pre-89 junior. Until then, they're not eligible (IMHO).

You're correct though...the posties assoc need to tighten up and clarify their rules.

Kickaha
29th March 2013, 17:20
Hey, if someone can demonstrate their local bike shop had a ZZR600 for sale in 1989 then I'll rush out and buy one

They dont have to have been sold in the local bike shop or anywhere else in the world, they only have to have been manufactured, find a pic of one leaving the factory or at a bike show in 1989

scracha
30th March 2013, 06:30
They dont have to have been sold in the local bike shop or anywhere else in the world, they only have to have been manufactured, find a pic of one leaving the factory or at a bike show in 1989

I would but I don't think there exists a picture of a ZZR600 at a bike show in 1989 because I suspect the Japanese would have kept it under top secret wraps until its official release. Therefore I doubt there is proof that a ZZR600 was manufactured in 1989. Therefore they shouldn't be racing in pre89.

If someone proves me wrong then I'll eat my words about "never buying another bloody Kawasaki" and face the humiliation of riding a ZZR600.

malcy25
30th March 2013, 09:18
This is the rule section from the Aussie rules I would like implemented here with regards to dating

16.4.0.3 The eligibility and dating of Historic motorcycles shall be considered in terms of major and minor components and the period of the motorcycle shall be the period of the latest major component.
16.4.0.4 For all historic competition, the year of the manufacture of a motorcycle is defined as the year of manufacture of the machine or of its latest major component.
16.4.0.5 For the purpose of these rules “Year of \manufacture” is defined as the year in which:
a) For a road based bike the machine or its latest major component was first generally available for sale and delivery to the purchaser,
b) For a race bike the year in which the machine or the latest major component first appeared in open competition.

Rcktfsh
30th March 2013, 10:03
[QUOTE=Kickaha;1130522765]Doesn't work like that, it's up to the competitior to provide the proof of legality and then if the NZPCRA dont like it they'll get a rule done to specifically exclude it anyway like they did with the RZ350 in pre82


Pretty sure the RZ wasn't released until 83, the first time the 250 was raced in NZ was July 83 at the Vic winter series by Bryan Forbes & Eddie Kattenberg (Mike Pero may have also been on one) where they trounced the much more expensive & on paper more competitive RG250 which were also making their debut. Can't remember the 350 being available earlier but have been mistaken before.

Kickaha
30th March 2013, 17:10
Pretty sure the RZ wasn't released until 83, the first time the 250 was raced in NZ was July 83 at the Vic winter series by Bryan Forbes & Eddie Kattenberg (Mike Pero may have also been on one) where they trounced the much more expensive & on paper more competitive RG250 which were also making their debut. Can't remember the 350 being available earlier but have been mistaken before.

It doesn't have to be released or available , the wording in the rule book is manufactured why do people seem to struggle so much to understand that?

Rcktfsh
30th March 2013, 19:55
With them not being raced until July 83 I can't see them being manufactured in 82 as we were normally at the front of the line for new releases, but as I said could be mistaken.

Kickaha
30th March 2013, 20:05
With them not being raced until July 83 I can't see them being manufactured in 82 as we were normally at the front of the line for new releases, but as I said could be mistaken.

There was one on display in October 82 at a bike show in France, Therefore at least one was manufactured, that's all it takes

I wasn't specifically talking about the RZ anyway just pointing out, released, for sale, available have nothing to with it it is "manufactured" that counts going by the rule book

Drew
30th March 2013, 20:53
What the hell are you trying to get me into here Stevie?

Ya wanna do it right, zzr if you can prove they were sold here pre 1990.

malcy25
30th March 2013, 22:00
There was one on display in October 82 at a bike show in France, Therefore at least one was manufactured, that's all it takes

I wasn't specifically talking about the RZ anyway just pointing out, released, for sale, available have nothing to with it it is "manufactured" that counts going by the rule book

hence my suggestion we copy the aussie rules, rather than have to exclude certain bikes which would always cause you to miss one....

Kickaha
31st March 2013, 06:34
Ya wanna do it right, zzr if you can prove they were sold here pre 1990.
You're as thick as the rest of them, you dont have to prove they were sold, but if you could then it could be sold anywhere in the world not just NZ

hence my suggestion we copy the aussie rules, rather than have to exclude certain bikes which would always cause you to miss one....
Makes more sense than manufactured, although it doesn't really matter someone somewhere will still find something about the rule to whine about

Drew
31st March 2013, 08:53
You're as thick as the rest of them, you dont have to prove they were sold, but if you could then it could be sold anywhere in the world not just NZOK, so we contact Kawasaki and find out when the first ZZR600 was sold. Presales would have been as early as August '89 I imagine. And then he sells the horrible CBR sitting at my place and we build something good.


Makes more sense than manufactured, although it doesn't really matter someone somewhere will still find something about the rule to whine aboutMostly people whine because they have something they want to use, that very nearly fits the rules I think.

If the 1990 GSXR1100 was available before December 1989 (and I don't think it was), lots of people who are all about Suzuki would be able to get a lot closer to the lap times of an FZR1000, then currently.

Kickaha
31st March 2013, 08:55
OK, so we contact Kawasaki and find out when the first ZZR600 was sold. .
Manufactured not sold Dickhead :facepalm:

If the 1990 GSXR1100 was available before December 1989
Manufactured not available Dickhead :facepalm:

Drew
31st March 2013, 08:58
Manufactured not sold Dickhead :facepalm:I'm pretty sure the general consensus is to the contrary. I've argued exactly what you are saying, and few if any saw it the same...Cunt.

Kickaha
31st March 2013, 09:01
I'm pretty sure the general consensus is to the contrary. I've argued exactly what you are saying, and few if any saw it the same...Cunt.

Well they must be all thick cunts like you, what part of the rule is hard to understand?

general consensus doesn't mean shit,the rules as they are written do

25.1
Introduction:
There shall be three groups of Post Class road racing machines:
(A)
Pre 72 which shall consist of machines manufactured after January 1st
1963 and before October 30th 1972.
(B)
Pre 82 which will consist of racing machines manufactured after the
closing date of the Period 1972 class and before December 31st 1982.
(C)
Pre 89 which will consist of racing machines manufactured after the
closing date of the period 1982 class and before December 31st 1989

No mention of "sold" "released" or "available"

Drew
31st March 2013, 09:07
Well they must be all thick cunts like you, what part of the rule is hard to understand?

general consensus doesn't mean shit,the rules as they are written do

25.1
Introduction:
There shall be three groups of Post Class road racing machines:
(A)
Pre 72 which shall consist of machines manufactured after January 1st
1963 and before October 30th 1972.
(B)
Pre 82 which will consist of racing machines manufactured after the
closing date of the Period 1972 class and before December 31st 1982.
(C)
Pre 89 which will consist of racing machines manufactured after the
closing date of the period 1982 class and before December 31st 1989

No mention of "sold" "released" or "available"

Sweet. Looks like I get to build Stevie a race bike with a decent frame and brakes!

scracha
31st March 2013, 11:51
Posties assoc emailed. Have asked if I can bung a ZZR600 motor into a ZXR400 :innocent:

sharky
1st April 2013, 13:57
Posties assoc emailed. Have asked if I can bung a ZZR600 motor into a ZXR400 :innocent:


It wont help you anyway mate - you would have forgotten how to ride by then...

Peter Smith
2nd April 2013, 17:40
Hey, if someone can demonstrate their local bike shop had a ZZR600 for sale in 1989 then I'll rush out and buy one as with 98 pones (before tuning) they'd piss over everything else in Pre-89 junior. Until then, they're not eligible (IMHO).

You're correct though...the posties assoc need to tighten up and clarify their rules.

From an Aussie article;
Such is Kawasaki's long-standing ZZ-R600 - once the benchmark to which others aspired.
Much has changed in the marketplace since the ZZ-R's worldwide release back in 1989.

scracha
3rd April 2013, 22:22
From an Aussie article;
Such is Kawasaki's long-standing ZZ-R600 - once the benchmark to which others aspired.
Much has changed in the marketplace since the ZZ-R's worldwide release back in 1989.

See earlier post. Same article then goes on about it's 1990 release.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/157397-Zxr600?p=1130522765#post1130522765

Yawn...and I could quote 100 articles stating it came out in 1990.

Doesn't matter anyway, email back from posties guys stating that ZZR600 is not eligible and that they're going to take some of the ambiguity out of the rules. I won't be doing a CBR engined ZXR400 based on their advice either.

sugilite
5th May 2013, 17:12
OK, so we contact Kawasaki and find out when the first ZZR600 was sold. Presales would have been as early as August '89 I imagine. And then he sells the horrible CBR sitting at my place and we build something good.

Mostly people whine because they have something they want to use, that very nearly fits the rules I think.

If the 1990 GSXR1100 was available before December 1989 (and I don't think it was), lots of people who are all about Suzuki would be able to get a lot closer to the lap times of an FZR1000, then currently.

I bought the 1st K to come in the country and was riding it around in October 88. Suzuki had a habit of selling next years model round oct/nov in those days. I'm confidant you would find they were selling L's by nov 89.

gammaguy
6th May 2013, 00:49
[QUOTE=Kickaha;1130522765]Doesn't work like that, it's up to the competitior to provide the proof of legality and then if the NZPCRA dont like it they'll get a rule done to specifically exclude it anyway like they did with the RZ350 in pre82


Pretty sure the RZ wasn't released until 83, the first time the 250 was raced in NZ was July 83 at the Vic winter series by Bryan Forbes & Eddie Kattenberg (Mike Pero may have also been on one) where they trounced the much more expensive & on paper more competitive RG250 which were also making their debut. Can't remember the 350 being available earlier but have been mistaken before.


Maybe at that stage the head hadn't been "dropped"on the workshop floor and had to be re machined:rolleyes:

gammaguy
6th May 2013, 00:52
I bought the 1st K to come in the country and was riding it around in October 88. Suzuki had a habit of selling next years model round oct/nov in those days. I'm confidant you would find they were selling L's by nov 89.

I ordered a brand new Yamaha FZR600 in June 1989,and received an A model(1990) in October 1989,purchased from A Bolwell of Oamaru

Drew
6th May 2013, 06:43
I ordered a brand new Yamaha FZR600 in June 1989,and received an A model(1990) in October 1989,purchased from A Bolwell of OamaruI don't think the FZR changed from '89 to '90 though did it?