Damned pea metal: Again!

[Trade_nancy]

Day off on Friday - so took the wife on back of the Sprint over the Paraparas and on to Ohakune etc. Expected some detritus on a few corners - and it was not too bad really - right up to about 70% in from the Wonga end and we got a 75kph RH bend with loose metal on the apex. Knees in on my thighs - the missus - she felt the rear wheel skate out from under us...ahhhh....came back. For fuksake..how many more damned stoney, boney, dusty corners are ther out there (with no signs)?
Had another scary moment going through the desert road last month - another 75k corner and a case of gravel on that too....whooo...back on line - luckily as it was double laner and we had a truck on our LHS...in a slow traffic lane..but hell why don't they sweep the f'ing roads nowadays ? Used to see sweeping machines - on tractors back whenever. Today it seems they are not used. They spray shit on the surface and wait for vehicles to squish it down!
OK I 'm a chicken shit..(now). Too old for death.

[Grizzo]

Yep, I still got a starfish shaped bite mark in my seat from last weekend.
Doing some nice curvy stuff like Iv'e done plenty of times before, only to come across a change in surface mid corner. Talk about arse puckering.
The Tillies back end was floppin around all over the place.
Likewise,no fuckin signage!

[strandedinnz]

Yep, I still got a starfish shaped bite mark in my seat from last weekend.

That made me chuckle :-)

[cheshirecat]

Its the only country I've ridden in where a resurfaced road is worse than the original

[buggerit]

We used to take the piss out of the ministry of works but at least when they built a road it was generally a long lasting result and any repairs later(alot later!!!!) were well done. It gives me the shits when I see them ripping up one of the well built old roads that have started to get a few imperfections and create a patch thats 10 times worse 2 weeks later!! :angry2::angry2:

[Asher]

I was muttering inside my helmet about this this afternoon also.
Seems like there is no standard either, some roads seem to have unchanging 30kmh zones for weeks while others seem to spawn unmarked repairs and gravel overnight

[ducatijim]

Its the only country I've ridden in where a resurfaced road is worse than the original

Big +1 there!!

[Mom]

Each time this happens, stop, take a photo and send it to your local council. They HAVE to do something about it if they are made aware of a problem. Most times they are delighted to be made aware of a problem as the contractors they employ are supposed to leave sites safe. Contractors face huge penalties for this sort of thing. The more times complaints are laid, the more times contractors are penalised the more times they will actually stop and give a shit about the condition they leave roads in.

Report shit road conditons!

[FJRider]

Report shit road conditons!

The road conditions as reported in post #1 would be more likely to be caused by truck and trailer units .... especially on the tighter corners. (the trailers take the short-cut and drags gravel out onto the road)

We all know such gravel is likely in the tight twisty main roads ... and reporting such is a waste of a phone call.

But it is your dime ...

As for the original post ... the back end wont step out much at 75 km/hr ... even with pea gravel on the road.

[98tls]

;)Jesus i thought this place was about motorcycling if ya dont like surprises buy an old VW and pack a lunchbox,made your arsehole pucker up and no doubt you felt the joy of clenched thighs round your waist:sweatdropnothing to complain about i reckon.

[Ocean1]

As for the original post ... the back end wont step out much at 75 km/hr ... even with pea gravel on the road.

Eh?

Better class of gravel down there mate?

[FJRider]

Eh?

Better class of gravel down there mate?

Most of us just don't pretend the twistys are our own personal pristine surfaced private race track.

And if gravel is found on some of the corners (as it often is) ... we don't take it as a personal insult.

[Woodman]

Most of us just don't pretend the twistys are our own personal pristine surfaced private race track.

And if gravel is found on some of the corners (as it often is) ... we don't take it as a personal insult.

Exactly right, and the MOW/Fulton Hogan etc are not Flag marshalls. There has been and always will be the odd bit of pea gravel on roads, if ya can't handle that, then sell ya bike and get a car.

[Trade_nancy]

Exactly right, and the MOW/Fulton Hogan etc are not Flag marshalls. There has been and always will be the odd bit of pea gravel on roads, if ya can't handle that, then sell ya bike and get a car.

Well I guess if you ride what features in your Avatar you might think like that Woodie. I too could sound like a clever clogged smart arse if I rode a trail/adventure bike over light gravel. Having said that - I have put my (now sold) trusty old CB750 over some solid lengthy areas of gravel on back roads at speed and know well how to get out the other end and have a good time of it.
But those of us with new road touring bikes with hard bags and pillion attached think differently and know better than you for sure what our bike to road limitations are.

[sugilite]

Each time this happens, stop, take a photo and send it to your local council. They HAVE to do something about it if they are made aware of a problem. Most times they are delighted to be made aware of a problem as the contractors they employ are supposed to leave sites safe. Contractors face huge penalties for this sort of thing. The more times complaints are laid, the more times contractors are penalised the more times they will actually stop and give a shit about the condition they leave roads in.

Report shit road conditons!

A HUGE +1 on that! Over this way the contractors stopped coming back with road sweepers after dubious reseal jobs quite some time ago, and we don't have groups of KB riding legends to sweep the road for us. I've certainly lost the front and rear ends at 75 kph and below, hell I've had the front slip on me at half that speed on one particular corner. Sounds like it's back to riding skool for me :wacko:


I have put my (now sold) trusty old CB750 over some solid lengthy areas of gravel on back roads at speed and know well how to get out the other end and have a good time of it.


WTF, you mean you have prior riding experience and skills picked up over the years? How on earth did our KB riding legends, psychics and members of the PPP (Pious Posting Perfectionists) miss that?

Mate, if you going to dare to post threads like this you need to at least do the following...
1. Give us an independently verified resume of your riding history.
2. Independently assessed and accredited skills list, both practical and written.
3. An on hands and knees count of said pea gravel per square meter, backed up with photographic evidence.
4. Measure said gravel with vernier calipers, and give an average on size.
5. A full report the rolling velocity of said pea gravel.
6. Speed test report in 5 kph increments on when the rear tyre will start to slide, and how far.
7. An 8 week study on just how that gravel may have got there, video evidence is expected. Needless to say, your report will be expected to be backed up with either forensic or KB approved psychic evidence.

But even then, the PPP gunna get ya! :pinch:

[Woodman]

Well I guess if you ride what features in your Avatar you might think like that Woodie. I too could sound like a clever clogged smart arse if I rode a trail/adventure bike over light gravel. Having said that - I have put my (now sold) trusty old CB750 over some solid lengthy areas of gravel on back roads at speed and know well how to get out the other end and have a good time of it.
But those of us with new road touring bikes with hard bags and pillion attached think differently and know better than you for sure what our bike to road limitations are.

Yeah-na, hitting unexpected pea gravel on a dual purpose bike when you are cranked over in a corner on the tar is just the same as on a tourer/sportsbike/cruiser. Scary.

[FJRider]

A HUGE +1 on that! Over this way the contractors stopped coming back with road sweepers after dubious reseal jobs quite some time ago, and we don't have groups of KB riding legends to sweep the road for us. I've certainly lost the front and rear ends at 75 kph and below, hell I've had the front slip on me at half that speed on one particular corner. Sounds like it's back to riding skool for me :wacko:


Nothing mentioned in the original post about road works.

[sugilite]

Nothing mentioned in the original post about road works.
Huh? I was quoting and responding to a post from Mom at that point. :wacko:

[FJRider]

Huh? I was quoting and responding to a post from Mom at that point. :wacko:

Taking the thread off topic again then .. :innocent:

Interestingly ... the lack of rain over a large part of the country for some time ... means more shit (pea gravel included) has been left on the road ;)

But still the fault of the local contractors .. for not sweeping the road prior to the OP's ride ... right .. ??? :scratch:

Maybe if he made a few phone calls (to the council offices in the areas he'll pass through) a week or so before his next ride ... :yes:

[sugilite]

Taking the thread off topic again then .. :innocent:
Haha, conditioner should sort that split hair problem right out.

[sugilite]

A timely article on Stuff on just this subject. Seems it is getting quite serious. Maybe if more people actually reported this sort of thing, then lives could be saved. Again, awesome post Mom and a healthy dose of vindication for the OP imo.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8465533/Killer-trap-at-the-roadside

[FJRider]

A timely article on Stuff on just this subject. Seems it is getting quite serious. Maybe if more people actually reported this sort of thing, then lives could be saved. Again, awesome post Mom and a healthy dose of vindication for the OP imo.


The article was about the gravel on the edge of the road. Nothing about gravel on the edge of the wheel tracks on a two lane (for overtaking) portion of highway. Nor was it referring to/about (shoddy) roadworks. It referred to leaving the road and going into the gravel at the edge of the road. All the accidents causing death in the article were caused by this.

But as usual ... the gravel was only a factor in the accidents. Speed was another ... funny that ... (but also off topic ... right)

No mention in the original post ... on how fast the OP was traveling at the time he found pea gravel ... but I'm guessing more than the recommended 75 km/hr.

[sugilite]

The article was about the gravel on the edge of the road. Nothing about gravel on the edge of the wheel tracks on a two lane (for overtaking) portion of highway. Nor was it referring to/about (shoddy) roadworks. It referred to leaving the road and going into the gravel at the edge of the road. All the accidents causing death in the article were caused by this.

But as usual ... the gravel was only a factor in the accidents. Speed was another ... funny that ... (but also off topic ... right)

No mention in the original post ... on how fast the OP was traveling at the time he found pea gravel ... but I'm guessing more than the recommended 75 km/hr.

Weak sauce, all of it. You really need a huge bottle of conditioner.

[Smifffy]

It's all good, according to ACC & Moto NZ the bigger threat is from DUNG!

[Grizzo]

The article was about the gravel on the edge of the road. Nothing about gravel on the edge of the wheel tracks on a two lane (for overtaking) portion of highway. Nor was it referring to/about (shoddy) roadworks. It referred to leaving the road and going into the gravel at the edge of the road. All the accidents causing death in the article were caused by this.

But as usual ... the gravel was only a factor in the accidents. Speed was another ... funny that ... (but also off topic ... right)

No mention in the original post ... on how fast the OP was traveling at the time he found pea gravel ... but I'm guessing more than the recommended 75 km/hr.

Jesarse Christ, you are a relentless fucker.
I reckon you just like to disagree for the sake of it rather than proving a point.

For fucks sake... chill Winston!

[Madness]

Nothing mentioned in the original post about road works.

Maybe the words "Road Works" were not used implicitly but I thought this spelled it out rather well.


They spray shit on the surface and wait for vehicles to squish it down!

The OP wasn't referring to Mr Whippy, surely?


I reckon you just like to disagree for the sake of it rather than proving a point.

That's our FJ!

[Trade_nancy]

No mention in the original post ... on how fast the OP was traveling at the time he found pea gravel ... but I'm guessing more than the recommended 75 km/hr.

FJRider: Nah,...I was taking it fairly old womanish really and took all the corners at signed speeds..and this one possibly even less than 75...I'm not out to prove anything about my masculinity (with a pillion)- I just enjoy the ride - so tend to ride twisties such as Paraparas/Rimutakas etc fairly lamely. Got passed by a 4 x 4 on this ride! Gotta ride to enjoy scenery when you have another body on the back.
I am happy to give it some on the open roads and more "secure" twisties where there seems less chance of shit on the road. This corner looked OK, was a right hander and as I put on the throttle as I hit the apex point - to pull through the close of the turn,...puddles of gravel appeared under me. I went into this ride a bit "pre-warned" - as one of our club riders put down his HD on a corner in January hereabouts for this same reason. I had voted to go the Gentle Annie to Napier..but the wife voted for the Paraparas. Tui billboard.

[ellipsis]

...i think people need to realise that the powers that be, whether they are govt, local govt, contractors etc , do not give two fucks about you or their responsibilities to the populace...it is all about the, "bottom line"...not your arse on the pavement...things have changed...we as sheep , allow it...and anyone that can honestly say they are not numbered amongst the (however many) number of voting sheep in this fucked up little cuntry are full of shit...nice scenery though...and, 'Oh, so green!'...

[SILVER SUZI]

Well when it comes to "road works", out here in the Ardmore, Clevedon, Hunua (that's south east Auckland for those of you who don't know) area it as mentioned above.
They put out signs, do the resealing, then a couple of days later take away all the signage. It doesn't seem to matter if it's just a repair or a whole road re-seal.
So if you happen to come along two or three days after the fact then you are probably going to try to inhale your seat through your ass.
As the days pass the traffic tends to push the gravel into nice little piles between the lanes, down the middle of each lane, and on the side of each lane.
They even re-do the road markings straight onto the piles of gravel. :weird:
Now I don't need to try and "ride like Rossi" to want to use all of the lane, but that's fraught with danger, as you have to cross through the piles of loose grave.:brick:

[Trade_nancy]

Yep Silver - it's the same down here. Long sections of highway are repaired - you can see it as u approach - a "whiter" shade and as you enter you can hear a rumble over the rougher surface and small chips spitting out from your tyres. Small and slowly building mounds of stones to the left or right of the lane.
I sent a complaint to LTSA via their website. They are responsible for state highways..not local roads. As much as venting my spleen.. I really do believe it is necessary for us to squeal over this issue. Cagers are not affected - being one myself - you can cruise through that crap no probs. Text of my email is below (sorry - it's long,...I started sobbing too..).

Good Evening - not sure who to direct this to and the generic "info" email contact seemed to be the only option I could find.

I'm writing to express concern regarding the surface condition of many of the state highways in the North Island (cannot speak of the South - but I'm sure it's at least as bad). My wife and I are eager middle-aged motorcyclists - she's pillion. Some call us fools and others refer to us as "Temporary NZ'ers".
We are on the roads most sunny weekends and over holidays. Been riding off and on since 1972.

WHAT IS UP WITH OUR ROAD REPAIRS? Patches of roughly cobbled together broths of rock, stone and dust are left scattered over the highways for vehicles to complete the inadequate stuff-ups "completed" by your roading contractors. In many cases, this surface debris remains for beyond a year since the original repairs...without signage. What became of road sweeping after resurfacing and why are seal repairs now rough, lumpy and irregular patches - when once these were finished to a much better quality. Money i guess? Not just SH's - also local council and regional council roads are being done this way. So it appears to be a widespread standard.

We completed a trip back in early February from Palmerston North up to Auckland to see classic bike racing at Hampton Downs; across to the Bay of Plenty; Gisborne; down to Hawkes Bay and home - over 4 days. We had 3 (that I remember) scares - good enough to cause my pillion to need to have a stop and relax afterwards. All these caused by loss of rear wheel traction while negotiating sweeping bends - to find fields of dusty pea metal debris in front of us. If you brake - you may die....so we hold our line and speed, but the rear still skids out. It's a percentage game - most of the time you regain traction. The most dangerous and outrageously incompetent example was found on a 75kph double lane RH sweeper on the Desert Road. We hit this while overtaking a slow truck. It was very scary and I did think it was all over for us that time.
Who does not understand? Unswept debris left after "repairs" is DANGEROUS to motorists - especially bikes.

Last week - a day trip to Wellie, over the Rimutakas to Wairarapa and back to Palmy. Same thing. Loose crap on a bend - but downhill approaching a 35kph tight turn = very nasty and rear wheel hopped and skidded. Phew. Wife must have really been scared by that one. I was! What's worse - we are slow riders,...most bikers and many cars overtake us!

Today - we had a day trip to Wanganui, over the Paraparas and on to Ohakune and back home. Nearly came off in the middle of the Paras..again it was road debris on a 75kph RH bend. No signs. Too late to brake.In January, one of our club riders crashed his new bike on this section. I had some pre-warning knowing he'd crashed somewhere nearby....and was only doing 60kph as I got to the corner, yet still lost some rear wheel traction. Most riders would approach this at 90kph...what the hell would happen? Maybe they'd be safer - surf at speed through it- I dunno.

Really I have had a gutsful. There are enough people in 4 wheeled vehicles trying to kill bikers without your reckless approach to road repair being added to the available weapons list. Time to up your game before more riders are injured by this less than adequate pretense for road (re)surfacing. Perhaps Higgins and the likes have to make budgets to get your contracts? They leave their sweeper in the shed at home now? Does anyone inspect these works afterwards? Why are warning signs removed when loose stones remain? Why are white lines resprayed on top of loose debris? Why are motorways exempt from this - they all seem to be nice, smooth and safe? Are regional roads (motorists) of less value?

If you detect a little anger in my tone - you'd be right. I'm pretty bloody angry right now. My life is being threatened by someone else's reckless approach to their work. I would appreciate having a reasoned response from someone. Better still - could someone just take me seriously, listen and DO SOMETHING please?

[Mushu]

I've dealt with it too, scary shit at times.
I've decided complaining about anything is a waste of time, nobody cares, especially if you're included in a minority (bikers) you're best to insure your bike or make it crash survivable (rat/survival bike) although this isn't possible for those of us that ride what we want rather than putting stock in the arbitrary license system in this country (I ride an R6 on my 6L).
Had a real good ass pucker the other day, riding past the polytech on Aldwins Rd got distracted by a girl coming out the gate and didn't see the deep gravel on the corner, quite proud of the resulting slide given I recovered from it.

I have ridden all my bikes extensively on gravel, both the R6 and the ninja have been over the hill on Banks peninsula via the dirt roads. I did this specifically to learn how it will handle in the worst possible situation. The downhill parts were scary as fuck.

My advice is stop looking for ways to improve the situation and learn how to control your bike in a slide because nomatter how careful you are it will happen.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[duckonin]

And our $30 per year (ACC) for safer roads goes where ? Meetings and cups of tea with sponge cake..

[FJRider]

My advice is stop looking for ways to improve the situation and learn how to control your bike in a slide because nomatter how careful you are it will happen.

I might agree with this ... life on two wheels is a lottery. How lucky are we going to be ... ???

This is also often a case of ... getting experience ... just after you need it the most. Experience on dirt bikes off road does help (a lot) in this regard.

Most road bike riders usually prefer to take the "Avoid gravel at all costs" option to avoid such issues. And get rather indignant when their lack of skill and experience (together with a dash of ignorance) ... plants them on the tarmac.

[FJRider]

And our $30 per year (ACC) for safer roads goes where ? Meetings and cups of tea with sponge cake..

"Administration" costs are a bitch ... eh .. !!

[Mushu]

And our $30 per year (ACC) for safer roads goes where ? Meetings and cups of tea with sponge cake..

Probably lining someones pocket, or 10 more huge lcd tvs for each government building or something equally as useless

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[FJRider]

Probably lining someones pocket, or 10 more huge lcd tvs for each government building or something equally as useless

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

Any funds "paid" to a Government department ... regardless of Intended use heading/label ... goes into the Government slush fund. And could be used for anything the powers that be ... decide to use it to fund.

As roading budgets are pretty much set annually ... and usually paid out through the tender process ... excess funds in the Government coffers are used for "other" funding. (From Welfare to International aid donations)

Only roads under the control of Transit NZ get the Government funding directly. Lesser roads are subject to Local Government control and budgets. And have to apply for Central government assistance in cases of circumstances requiring it.

And the individual departments do have budgets they have to stick to. And account for.

[Mushu]

Any funds "paid" to a Government department ... regardless of Intended use heading/label ... goes into the Government slush fund. And could be used for anything the powers that be ... decide to use it to fund.

As roading budgets are pretty much set annually ... and usually paid out through the tender process ... excess funds in the Government coffers are used for "other" funding. (From Welfare to International aid donations)

Only roads under the control of Transit NZ get the Government funding directly. Lesser roads are subject to Local Government control and budgets. And have to apply for Central government assistance in cases of circumstances requiring it.

And the individual departments do have budgets they have to stick to. And account for.

Its pretty easy to fudge the numbers and put money anywhere you want, not that I care, I have decided all systems and governments are bullshit, I'm just along for the ride (due to a lack of options) so I just sit back and laugh, and no, I don't vote, never have, what's the point of selecting one group of dishonest morons over another. It's about as useful as religion.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[Woodman]

Has anyone else noticed that their are a lot more roadworks started in March than in any other month?


Why is this?

[MIXONE]

Has anyone else noticed that their are a lot more roadworks started in March than in any other month?


Why is this?

It's the end of the financial year so any money left in the budget has to be spent or the funding for the following year will be cut.

[Katman]

I might agree with this ... life on two wheels is a lottery. How lucky are we going to be ... ???



You're joking, right?

[Trade_nancy]

OK - if it's boring - I'm sure I'll be told..but I did get a reply from LTSA yesterday. My reply is yet to go back to them. Some intersting comments that indicate the roading contractors policy is to NOT have warning or "Loose Metal" signage on these areas beyond the actual initial repair and suirt of white paint. So corners are left with gravel and they put up a 50KPH sign for a while.
See below:

Hello Mark,
My apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I have investigated your query as best as possible. However some issues are too general to comment on, are outside my area or it is not possible to pin point the contractor responsible. My maintenance contractor and reseal contractor are the same and have replied as

“When Downer undertake sealing work on the Highway, our sites are sign posted with a temporary speed restriction of 30Km/hr while the work is being carried out and then changed to 50Km/hr when work is completed and the site still has loose chip on the surface.
The site could be left with the 50Km/hr restriction for up to 48Hr before sweeping is carried out, depending on location, weather and other factors, and is then road marked.
Depending on type of seal coat applied, the site could require sweeping again after road marking.

Referring to the letter of complaint, I can say that in February 2013 there was no sealing under taken on our section of SH1 Desert Road. We consider the Desert Road as that section between Waiouru and Rangipo.

On the Thursday 21 March 2013 Downer carried out sealing of SCRIM sites on SH4 at RP176/8,176/9 and 188/7.5.

These three sites were left with a 50Km/Hr temporary speed restriction on them and swept on the Monday 25/03/2013. our Wanganui staff checked these sites on the Friday 22/03/2013 and all signs were in place as required.

Trust this is of some assistance. “


In order to monitor the works of our contractors, my consultant goes out into the field regularly in order to inspect that the traffic management plans are being adhered to. The above mentioned process is written into the contract and is best practice throughout New Zealand. However, I would add that this particular contractor does not blindly follow the generic best practice and if more effort is required, e.g. leaving the signs up for longer, doing more sweeping, then the contractor would improve upon the contractual requirements for the site specific conditions. If you could pin point the locations , I would be able to further investigate to see if an abnormally had occurred or if it was a different contractor involved. I would also like to be able to pass your comments on to other areas for their report, if appropriate.

It is regrettable that your experience has not been good. We do take on board your comments and we will continue to review our processes to see where we can improve.

Kind regards,

Barry O' Shea
Senior Asset Manager,
Palmerston North

[Ocean1]

OK - if it's boring - I'm sure I'll be told..but I did get a reply from LTSA yesterday.

I've mentioned it before, I've ridden over South Island chipseal literally 2 minutes behind the truck spreading the agrigate without lifting or disturbing a single piece of gravel. So why is it that most North Island chipseal applications are more like black porridge when laid and for months afterwards?

In my opinion NI contractors need to get their shit together, using private vehicles as rollers on poorly laid chipseal is an unacceptable practice.

[Smifffy]

Ah, so it was Downer. Hardly surprising then, in the South Waikato they seem to leave most roads in worse condition than they were in when the job started.

[Road kill]

Its the only country I've ridden in where a resurfaced road is worse than the original

Odd you should say that.

I've been wondering if this is a new thing to make people drive slower.

Take a perfectly good road surface and leave it covered in ruts an bumps in the hope it will slow people down.

Oh yeah,,,and never sign post the fucking gravel half way around the blind corner.

Anybody riding the Awhitu rd this coming week,,,,be aware there's traps out there. :angry2:

[cheshirecat]

Odd you should say that.

I've been wondering if this is a new thing to make people drive slower.

Take a perfectly good road surface and leave it covered in ruts an bumps in the hope it will slow people down.

. :angry2:

Yes I wouldn't be surprised either. They 'resurfaced' Shelly Bay road here leaving it awash with gravel. its a notorious place for boy racers and such. 'Traffic calming' is the term

[jellywrestler]

Day off on Friday - so took the wife on back of the Sprint over the Paraparas and on to Ohakune etc. Expected some detritus on a few corners - and it was not too bad really - right up to about 70% in from the Wonga end and we got a 75kph RH bend with loose metal on the apex. Knees in on my thighs - the missus - she felt the rear wheel skate out from under us...ahhhh....came back. For fuksake..how many more damned stoney, boney, dusty corners are ther out there (with no signs)?
Had another scary moment going through the desert road last month - another 75k corner and a case of gravel on that too....whooo...back on line - luckily as it was double laner and we had a truck on our LHS...in a slow traffic lane..but hell why don't they sweep the f'ing roads nowadays ? Used to see sweeping machines - on tractors back whenever. Today it seems they are not used. They spray shit on the surface and wait for vehicles to squish it down!
OK I 'm a chicken shit..(now). Too old for death.
if there's shit on a corner it spreads, try listening for the clues as other vechiles will pick it up and drag it along, the tell tale tinkle of the stones early on should be enough to get the senses into action and avoid whatevers coming up. it's not hard

[Zedder]

NZTA worksite signage requirements:http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/code-temp-traffic-management/docs/copttm-section-b-4th-ed.pdf

[Trade_nancy]

NZTA worksite signage requirements:http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/code-temp-traffic-management/docs/copttm-section-b-4th-ed.pdf

Thanks Zedder - that indicates (page 14) that the contractor is not doing it to rules - as sign TR31 should be in place until ALL loose metal is removed. I'll send that on to NZTA for comment.

[FJRider]

Thanks Zedder - that indicates (page 14) that the contractor is not doing it to rules - as sign TR31 should be in place until ALL loose metal is removed. I'll send that on to NZTA for comment.

Your concern for the adherence to the rules impresses me. No doubt YOUR own adherence to the "rules" as written in NZ legislation will be the SAME as you obviously expect from the Contractors responsible for roadworks in that area. In the interest of everybody's safety ... of course.

If you don't ... you are hardly in a position to expect everybody (well the contractors anyway) to obey the rules ALL the time.

[Asher]

Thanks Zedder - that indicates (page 14) that the contractor is not doing it to rules - as sign TR31 should be in place until ALL loose metal is removed. I'll send that on to NZTA for comment.
They probably do remove all the loose metal, its just as the do such a shit job the road instantly starts to disintegrat and spread metal around

[jellywrestler]

They probably do remove all the loose metal, its just as the do such a shit job the road instantly starts to disintegrat and spread metal around

or it's flicked up by vechiles cutting the corners where it's been swept into...

[speeding_ant]

Yes I wouldn't be surprised either. They 'resurfaced' Shelly Bay road here leaving it awash with gravel. its a notorious place for boy racers and such. 'Traffic calming' is the term

+1

That new seal is bloody shocking. 50km/h zone, skinny road, with a foot of the middle of the road covered in gravel the whole way. If someone cuts a corner, and you have to quickly brake, there is not a lot of room to brake safely. I've tried emergency braking in gravel before, at slow speeds it's a total bitch.

[Trade_nancy]

Your concern for the adherence to the rules impresses me. No doubt YOUR own adherence to the "rules" as written in NZ legislation will be the SAME as you obviously expect from the Contractors responsible for roadworks in that area. In the interest of everybody's safety ... of course.

If you don't ... you are hardly in a position to expect everybody (well the contractors anyway) to obey the rules ALL the time.

Yes....if it were a professional obligation on my part to deliver an outcome and I was paid to do so...
Plus you highlight the word ..ALL..(the time)....well they were quoted as stating it was their method - to NOT place suitable signage warning of road repairs - just to place a 50kph sign. Were it a one-off omission - yeh,..nobody is perfect. But to state in writing that they DON'T follow the printed rules...well,...what's your problem? Don't you want the roads improved? Do you think they are good?

[Zedder]

or it's flicked up by vechiles cutting the corners where it's been swept into...

A lot of the problem is pressure on contractors to get the road open again as soon as possible.

Due to this, back in 2008, a new practice called racked-in seal was brought in which is a process of laying big chips first then smaller chips to fill the gaps. It can go wrong depending on a few factors, but the road shouldn't be left in a dangerous state.

NZTA welcomes driver/rider feedback to get things right and has a dedicated phone line for this purpose: 0800 44 44 49.

[FJRider]

Yes....if it were a professional obligation on my part to deliver an outcome and I was paid to do so...
Plus you highlight the word ..ALL..(the time)....well they were quoted as stating it was their method - to NOT place suitable signage warning of road repairs - just to place a 50kph sign. Were it a one-off omission - yeh,..nobody is perfect. But to state in writing that they DON'T follow the printed rules...well,...what's your problem? Don't you want the roads improved? Do you think they are good?

You have a legal obligation to ensure the set (and legislated) standard of driving on the roads. Not just if it suits ... at the time. If you choose not to obey "Printed rules" why should they.

So there was a 50 km/hr placed before those road repairs you "found" .. ???

I would have thought that sign would have suggested some danger to you .. might be found ahead (a high probability of roadworks at least) ...

If NO such signage was there ... then there was an issue with the contractors code of practice. If there was and you chose to ignore it ... is that their fault you had issues .. ??

I've really had no issues with road conditions in any part of the country. Some I have found that "Need Work" ... and have reported dangerous portions of roadway to the appropriate authorities at the time. I certainly do not expect Racetrack standards of roading in all cases.
Main roads with high volume and heavy vehicle use ... especially winding areas are subject to a high expectation of damage.

You stated in the original post that you expected gravel.

As previously mentioned in other posts ... plenty of warning signs (excuse the pun) are there if you look.

[Zedder]

How's the hip FJR? Giving ya jip?

[Trade_nancy]

You have a legal obligation to ensure the set (and legislated) standard of driving on the roads. Not just if it suits ... at the time. If you choose not to obey "Printed rules" why should they.
A. I do, I'm perfect like you.

So there was a 50 km/hr placed before those road repairs you "found" .. ???
A. No. But there are 25, 35, 45 50, 65, 70, 75, 85, 100kph signs all over this and othe roads. They are not a warning of surface issues - just an advisory speed. If I were riding down a 20km straight and suddenly came on a 50kph sign - I would think - oh, what's this and slow. Why would I expect debris on a corner with a 50kph sign on it - if one was there at all?I would have thought that sign would have suggested some danger to you .. might be found ahead (a high probability of roadworks at least) ...
A. NO. As I saw no sign and if I did unless it resembled a temporary placed or warning sign I'd assume it was a corner rated speed sign.If NO such signage was there ... then there was an issue with the contractors code of practice.
A. At last you are making some sense.
If there was and you chose to ignore it ... is that their fault you had issues .. ??
A. Hyperthetical if, but, what if, and or maybe....take a pill and chill.I've really had no issues with road conditions in any part of the country. Some I have found that "Need Work" ... and have reported dangerous portions of roadway to the appropriate authorities at the time. I certainly do not expect Racetrack standards of roading in all cases.
A: So - 1st you've had NO issues- ANYWHERE. Next you say - you have reported "dangerous" portions....contradictory person aren't you?Main roads with high volume and heavy vehicle use ... especially winding areas are subject to a high expectation of damage.
A: Gee, that's good to know!You stated in the original post that you expected gravel.
A. yep - and rode sedately. Gravel still came as a surprise.

As previously mentioned in other posts ... plenty of warning signs (excuse the pun) are there if you look.
A. If u are happy with the world - go away and enjoy it - you are wasted here - such an expert in all facets of life.

[leathel]

The signage and lack of it is only part of the issue, The other big issue is when pipe lines etc are dug up then patched as if a 5year old has been on the gear, We have several companies doing work in the area at the moment and some of the repairs are akin to judder bars, The bad repairs got reported.....and months later no difference and one of the said reported areas there in no room to avoid others if someone does cross the line, in a cutting on a corner in open road :shutup:

Easter weekend there was a fair amount of fresh repairs where I went with no signage and plenty of loose gravel on top, I would doubt it was swept, Following weekend it was free of gravel so must have been swept then but more patches with 30K signs at the start but several K's between repairs, a stretch of about 30 K's with a few repairs and not all marked and it was guessing game when you hit the next lot. Are you supposed to travel 30K's for the whole area for a few 2-3 long repairs ??

Its a double edged sword for me as I get work from these gravel patches when cage drives panic and crash...... But its not fun finding them on the bike but I have yet to drop the bike on one, Usually going slow enough..... You should always ride like there will be an issue around the corner but if contractors took care in what they did it sure would make life better for all, Some areas of the country do well and sign the work well but others :facepalm:

[FJRider]

A. I do, I'm perfect like you.

Nice of you to say ... :yes:

So there was a 50 km/hr placed before those road repairs you "found" .. ???


A. No. But there are 25, 35, 45 50, 65, 70, 75, 85, 100kph signs all over this and othe roads. They are not a warning of surface issues - just an advisory speed. If I were riding down a 20km straight and suddenly came on a 50kph sign - I would think - oh, what's this and slow. Why would I expect debris on a corner with a 50kph sign on it - if one was there at all?

So you have the assumption that road surfaces have no relevance to posted temporary speed limits .. ??? :scratch: and the assumption that no debris would be on a posted advisory 75 km/hr corner. After already finding gravel on previous such corners ... :facepalm:

I would have thought that sign would have suggested some danger to you .. might be found ahead (a high probability of roadworks at least) ...


A. NO. As I saw no sign and if I did unless it resembled a temporary placed or warning sign I'd assume it was a corner rated speed sign.If NO such signage was there ... then there was an issue with the contractors code of practice.

First you say there was no sign. Then you say you never saw a sign. Which infers there "could" have been a sign there. But didn't see it.
You already "found" gravel in previous corners but failed to notice gravel in following corners.


A. At last you are making some sense.

nice of you to say.

If there was and you chose to ignore it ... is that their fault you had issues .. ??


A. Hyperthetical if, but, what if, and or maybe....take a pill and chill.

Had you taken your own advice at the time ... :killingme


A: So - 1st you've had NO issues- ANYWHERE. Next you say - you have reported "dangerous" portions....contradictory person aren't you?

As an experienced rider ... I am well capable of dealing with road issues (without bitching about it online). If this means "discretion" with the throttle when loose gravel is found in roads with a series of winding corners ... so be it.

Main roads with high volume and heavy vehicle use ... especially winding areas are subject to a high expectation of damage.


A: Gee, that's good to know!

It is my pleasure to inform the unknowing ..

You stated in the original post that you expected gravel.


A. yep - and rode sedately. Gravel still came as a surprise.

Expected things are always a surprise.

As previously mentioned in other posts ... plenty of warning signs (excuse the pun) are there if you look.


A. If u are happy with the world - go away and enjoy it - you are wasted here - such an expert in all facets of life.

I can't go away yet. Still a few to inform. And thank you for your support. It is appreciated.

[leathel]

Nice of you to say ... :yes:

So there was a 50 km/hr placed before those road repairs you "found" .. ???

First you say there was no sign. Then you say you never saw a sign. Which infers there "could" have been a sign there. But didn't see it.
You already "found" gravel in previous corners but failed to notice gravel in following corners.



.


So there was a 50 km/hr placed before those road repairs you "found" .. ??? your question......answered below last post
A. No. But there are 25, 35, 45 50, 65, 70, 75, 85, 100kph signs all over this and othe roads. They are not a warning of surface issues - just an advisory speed. If I were riding down a

I believe you need to learn how to read?? The way I read the answer is no there was no sign seen but there are corner speed signs along the road??

This has the potential to be a long thread :facepalm:

[FJRider]

How's the hip FJR? Giving ya jip?

Giving (back) as good as I get ... :killingme

[FJRider]

I believe you need to learn how to read?? The way I read the answer is no there was no sign seen but there are corner speed signs along the road??

I didn't see it/him is never a valid excuse in any court of law. Not (admitted as) seen does not mean it was not there.

I thought this statement by the OP might be a hint that a temporary speed sign might have been there ...


well they were quoted as stating it was their method - to NOT place suitable signage warning of road repairs - just to place a 50kph sign.

On a 75 km/hr (advisory signed) corner ... a 50 km/hr temporary speed sign takes precedence and any higher advisory speed signs are usually covered.

However ... The yellow advisory speed signs before corners are not enforcable ... temporary speed signs ARE.


This has the potential to be a long thread :facepalm:

No worries ... I have plenty of time on my hands ... :innocent:

[Trade_nancy]

Is there an "FJRIDER" filter I can enable on this site..?:wacko:

[pritch]

Road safety is divided into three main areas: Education, Engineering, and Enforcement. Two of those cost money, one brings money in.
Guess where the effort goes?

In a country with a lot of roads, some difficult topography, and not many people, I guess we can't expect perfect roads. I do believe though that a lot of accidents could be prevented if the roads were better maintained.

I trust I'm not too cynical, but if the contracts are continually awarded to the lowest tenderer the standard can be expected to continually decline. Sadly I have seen that process at work in other instances.

[sugilite]

Is there an "FJRIDER" filter I can enable on this site..?:wacko:
You can put him on your ignore list. It seems to me he pores over any post that dares to contradict his point of view to find any little chink in it (be it spelling, perceived left out info, anything at all really) and will relentlessly attempt to exploit any perceived chink to support his view point, taking it to dizzy heights of the absurd to do so. A good example is right here in this very thread, check out post #22 http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/157548-Damned-pea-metal-Again!?p=1130520402#post1130520402. I'd not be surprised if one googled "splitting hairs", it would defer to FJ's posts as being the very embodiment of the term :lol:

[Trade_nancy]

You can put him on your ignore list. It seems to me he pores over any post that dares to contradict his point of view to find any little chink in it (be it spelling, perceived left out info, anything at all really) and will relentlessly attempt to exploit any perceived chink to support his view point, taking it to dizzy heights of the absurd to do so. A good example is right here in this very thread, check out post #22 http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/157548-Damned-pea-metal-Again!?p=1130520402#post1130520402. I'd not be surprised if one googled "splitting hairs", it would defer to FJ's posts as being the very embodiment of the term :lol:

Thanks....a good case indeed. But he's probably a genuinely nice bloke under that hard southern trucker shell...just out to prove - he could have worked with his mind if he had chosen to - but didn't.

[Ocean1]

Road safety is divided into three main areas: Education, Engineering, and Enforcement. Two of those cost money, one brings money in.
Guess where the effort goes?

In a country with a lot of roads, some difficult topography, and not many people, I guess we can't expect perfect roads. I do believe though that a lot of accidents could be prevented if the roads were better maintained.

I trust I'm not too cynical, but if the contracts are continually awarded to the lowest tenderer the standard can be expected to continually decline. Sadly I have seen that process at work in other instances.

There's nothing wrong with accepting the lowest tendered price, as long as the job's done to an agreed standard. I suspect that if you actually went to the trouble of finding the facts you'd discove a sort of fuzzy collusion between an authority that knows damn well that the job can't be done properly for the price and a contractor that knows exactly how far short of the required standard he can get away with.

All it takes to fuck up that cosy little arrangement is for the public to have some idea of what those standards are and to ping the fuck outa every single transgression they encounter. Good work TN.

[Trade_nancy]

Another response from LTSA below.
This guy seems to be genuinely prepared to follow up on road condition complaints - if specific enough. Mine weren't and I didn't have photos to support my case. Next time I will. Check out the 1st link below...it may be of use to some.
PS: I'd suggest it is a tough ask to take a pic every time u see dangerous shit on the road. Often it is just too dangerous to stop and park up.

Hi Mark,
Re the Desert Road, my boundary ends about 20km north of Waiouru. So I apologise for wasting your time as the location of your incident is within the maintenance region looked after out of our Hamilton office. I have attached a link from NZTA’s website to give you the contact numbers of all our offices.
Re the Paraparas, it is a pity you cannot help anymore. As a possible way of improving the service NZTA provides to bikers, would it be possible for bikers to bring a digital camera on your travels and record the problems encountered. NZTA welcomes feedback and we are keen to make sure that our contractors are doing a good job. I did have a look at the thread discussion. Seems a mixture of opinion out there. I would concur that if these issues are raised with us (NZTA) we will investigate and implement improvements. The main reason why I ask about the camera is that it happens too often that someone says the signs were not there and the contractor says they were up. So we need to move away from hearsay and use more physical evidence.

About the 48hours thing- we set 48hours as a reasonable time for the chips to embed into the binder. After the 48 hours the contractor inspects the site and if he deems fit the road is swept, centrelines etc painted on and the speed restrictions removed. In areas of high traffic this 48 hours may be reduced, it may also be lengthened if warranted. So when the speed restrictions are removed the loose metal will have been swept away.

I have also attached a link to a new initiative NZTA are developing called “On the move”. Please have a look at the website and see if it is something you would be interested in. In essence it is a portal that allows NZTA to inform the travelling public of incidents on the state highway which may impact on their travel plans.


https://onthemove.govt.nz/
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/about/contact/our-offices.html
Regards
Barry O' Shea
Senior Asset Manager,

[cheshirecat]

By strange coincidence (providence) the recent resurfacing outside my door is pure tarmac - not a chip in sight

[Grizzo]

FJ, whats with the obsessive need to nitpick and argue so much.
Nothing wrong with a good debate, but for fucks sake dude!
I guess if you try really, really hard you can find fault in anything.
That must suck, pretty sad really.

[leathel]

By strange coincidence (providence) the recent resurfacing outside my door is pure tarmac - not a chip in sight

and Yesterday outside my house has fresh chip laid (no prep just chuck more over the bumps and dips), but on a strait road in a 50K area so they have signs for africa :rolleyes:

[Trade_nancy]

I got another followup email (below) from LTSA - who are onto some specific roads that I photographed and sent them. Good to see they react positively.


Further to your email correspondence with Barry O’Shea regarding State Highway issues.
I deal with the East Wanganui network which extends as follows –

SH1 Hihitahi Bluffs (North of Taihape) south to Pukehou Rail Bridge (South of Levin)
SH2 Otawhao Road (North of Norsewood) to Mount Bruce
SH3 Whangaheu River Bridge to Woodville
SH54 all
SH56 all
SH57 all

I have passed on you concerns to our contractor and they will be dealing the issues they cover. I have received a query regarding the western Rangitikei line issue. Could you be more specific as to the location. The SH3/54 site is a work in progress with the whole intersection due for resurfacing shortly in conjunction with the safety improvement works. The contractor is expected to keep it swept and safe for road users. Is your comment regarding the visual appearance or are you referring to the condition of the road. The contractor is confused.

Please keep your observations coming and we will endeavour to fix what we can.

Cheers

Alex




Alex Drover
NZTA Region 8 - East Wanganui Network Team Leader

[sels1]

Another response from LTSA below.
... "So when the speed restrictions are removed the loose metal will have been swept away".
It would be nice if this happened. The term "swept " is where some of the problems lie. Todays contractors seem to just run one of those vaccum trucks up and down the street and call it swept. Actually what happens is they pick up a some of it, and the rest just gets re-arranged.The contract should read "REMOVE all loose chip",not just sweep it around.. Back in the MOW days they had blokes with brooms and shovels who would make sure it was done properly. Having had some of the streets around where I lived resurfaced recently, I have been watching the process. I did ring the council and they sent a bloke around to check it and he agreed it hadn't been done properly and sent the contractor back to sweep it again. Of course all the contractor did was drive the vaccuum truck up and down the street again....around the parked cars...but at least he got some of it.

So report it when you see it folks, the councils and TNZ generally respond well - and the more data they get the better picture they will have of which contractors are worthwhile and which need to lift their game.