Suzuki TS185 maintenance

[Matariki]

Considering I have allot of questions about my maintaining my little Suzuki TS 185 (2005 model, 2 stroke). I figured that instead of making separate threads for different issues regarding the TS, I'll post them all here.

[Matariki]

Questions about Changing Engine Oil

Iv'e decided to change the engine oil in my TS, however the little container that the oil sits in is covered in sticky oil. What can I use to clean it (that wont damage the plastic or affect the engine)? Should I also clean the inside of the plastic container too? And can I use the same type of oil for the gear box?

I went to the local suzuki dealer and they sold me some Ipone 2 stroke city motor-oil. They assured me that it was more than adequate. Although, it doesn't state on the bottle what sae it is.

[Matariki]

Questions about Air Filter

I've also considered changing the air filter in my TS from the stock standard air filter (the picture below isn't my air filter, but its the same design) to a conical air filter. Are there any major differences in terms of fitting (do I have to do any modifications or anything like that to my bike) and performance (will my bike run any better). How do you go about installing them?

280293

[Ocean1]

Questions about Changing Engine Oil

Iv'e decided to change the engine oil in my TS, however the little container that the oil sits in is covered in sticky oil. What can I use to clean it (that wont damage the plastic or affect the engine)? Should I also clean the inside of the plastic container too? And can I use the same type of oil for the gear box?

I went to the local suzuki dealer and they sold me some Ipone 2 stroke city motor-oil. They assured me that it was more than adequate. Although, it doesn't state on the bottle what sae it is.

There's two places where oil's used in your bike. One's the gearbox, and the other's the two-stroke oil the bike pumps into it's main bearings and mixes with it's petrol to lubricate it's piston.

I'd be changing the gearbox oil annually.

The two-stroke oil will be consumed by the bike fairly quickly, from that plastic bottle, and you need to keep it topped up or the engine will be toast.

As far as cleaning the bottle goes I'd just use a little petrol on a rag, maybe an old toothbrush. Wouldn't bother with the inside unless it's obviously got actual dirt in there, just top it up with proper two stroke oil. Never heard of ipone, no google results either but if it's two stroke oil as opposed to four stroke engine oil it'll be fine.


Questions about Air Filter

I've also considered changing the air filter in my TS from the stock standard air filter (the picture below isn't my air filter, but its the same design) to a conical air filter. Are there any major differences in terms of fitting (do I have to do any modifications or anything like that to my bike) and performance (will my bike run any better). How do you go about installing them?

280293

The original's a foam filter? Either way I'd leave it alone, the chances of you finding a filter that works as well as the one Mr Suzuki put on is very slim. If it needs replacing then just buy a new TS185 filter.

[Matariki]

There's two places where oil's used in your bike. One's the gearbox, and the other's the two-stroke oil the bike pumps into it's main bearings and mixes with it's petrol to lubricate it's piston.

I'd be changing the gearbox oil annually.

The two-stroke oil will be consumed by the bike fairly quickly, from that plastic bottle, and you need to keep it topped up or the engine will be toast.


So does that mean I can use the same oil for both places?



The original's a foam filter? Either way I'd leave it alone, the chances of you finding a filter that works as well as the one Mr Suzuki put on is very slim. If it needs replacing then just buy a new TS185 filter.

Would it be worth while cleaning the foam or should I purchase new foam? Its pretty old and dirty looking.

[Katman]

So does that mean I can use the same oil for both places?


No .

[FJRider]

The two oils are not the same.

If the foam can be removed without damage ... clean and re oil it. (or at least just CLEAN it) It will run better clean.

[sugilite]

Automatic transmission oil/ fluid for cars works quite well in two stroke gear boxes.

[Ocean1]

So does that mean I can use the same oil for both places?

No. two stroke oil in the plastic bottle, easiest fail-proof routine is to top it up at the same time you get petrol. Gearbox oil in the gearbox.


Would it be worth while cleaning the foam or should I purchase new foam? Its pretty old and dirty looking.

Yeah, is normal to clean them repeatedly. Put half a litre of petrol in an ice cream tub, rinse foam and wring it out half a dozen times. Chuck the petrol, put the foam back in the tub and pour about 100cc of filter oil, (yeah, another type of oil) over it. Wring it out and mop up the oil, wring it out again, repeat until there's no dry parts of foam then wring it out one last time and refit it to the bike. You might want to get some disposable gloves. If the foam's damaged buy another one, they aren't too expensive.

[Katman]

Put half a litre of petrol in an ice cream tub, rinse foam and wring it out half a dozen times. Chuck the petrol, put the foam back in the tub and pour about 100cc of filter oil, (yeah, another type of oil) over it. Wring it out and mop up the oil, wring it out again, repeat until there's no dry parts of foam then wring it out one last time and refit it to the bike. You might want to get some disposable gloves. If the foam's damaged buy another one, they aren't too expensive.

No, don't wring it out.

Squeeze out as much excess oil as you can.

Wringing it out tears the foam fibres.

[Ocean1]

No, don't wring it out.

Squeeze out as much excess oil as you can.

Wringing it out tears the foam fibres.

:yes: Good call, wrong word.

[brp]

Thought better to use kerosene to clean filter than petrol ? Will use petrol in future if no difference, just thought
bit harsh on the foam (guess all comes from same place)

Save yourself some $ and buy 1L of 80/90 gear oil (valvoline about $17) for oiling your foam filter, says in my manual
to do so - if its good enough for the best engine builders in the world to state to do so good enough for me :yes:

[Matariki]

Question about Fuel Tank

While I was doing my clean up on my TS (so far I've done the oil container, air filter and carb) I decided to also have a look at the fuel tap itself. I removed the tank from the TS and disconnected everything. As I was emptying out my petrol tank (it was pretty much empty anyway) a bunch of brownish/redish gunk came out of the tank out of where the fuel tap is usually connected to the tank (the rear of the tank). My manual doesn't state what it means when brown gunk comes out of tanks. My dad thinks it might be rust and thinks I should clean it out with petrol. But I thought I should check with you guys first. The tank itself appears to be in good condition (its solid and has no outer surface rust).

[FJRider]

Question about Fuel Tank

While I was doing my clean up on my TS (so far I've done the oil container, air filter and carb) I decided to also have a look at the fuel tap itself. I removed the tank from the TS and disconnected everything. As I was emptying out my petrol tank (it was pretty much empty anyway) a bunch of brownish/redish gunk came out of the tank out of where the fuel tap is usually connected to the tank (the rear of the tank). My manual doesn't state what it means when brown gunk comes out of tanks. My dad thinks it might be rust and thinks I should clean it out with petrol. But I thought I should check with you guys first. The tank itself appears to be in good condition (its solid and has no outer surface rust).

Good on you for cleaning all those ... bikes have fewer running issues if you do.

The tank is the gathering place of ALL the crap that gets pumped into your tank via the nozzle of all the fuel stations you get petrol at. When fuel station tanks are low ... is usually the worst time. Stations that have a low volume of fuel pumped ... are even worse. The crud has more time to settle at the bottom of the tank and be a time bomb for unsuspecting motorists.
Your guess (and your fathers) is as good as any what it is. However ... it is not recommended that it remains in YOUR tank. (you may have figured that out yourself)

It is not the outer surface rust that is of concern ... but inside the tank. As petrol floats ... water must then drop to the bottom of a tank. This will cause rust ... as water does contain oxygen. On top of this ... the original tank linings do get flaky and can clog up the filter on the upper part of the fuel tap. A regular removal of the tap and clean helps ... but a small inline fuel filter helps more. (but all little bits of help DO help)

Cleaning the inside of the tank on bikes such as yours is easy (and cheap)

Steps ...

1. Collect half a litre of washed pea gravel.
2. Remove fuel tap from the tank.
3. Plug the hole the fuel tap fills.(a piece of rag is ok)
4. Pour washed pea gravel into the tank with an equal (or about) amount of petrol.
5. Swirl the gravel/petrol mixture about in the tank ... covering the entire surface of the inside of the tank.
6. After a time ... pour resulting mixture into a bowel/container (2 litre ice cream containers are good for this)
7. Re-wash pea gravel and repeat swirling with the fuel/grave mixture a few times ... until no crud is poured out with the fuel/gravel mixture.
8. Replace fuel tap and fit tank to the bike. Fill with fresh petrol.

Don't put fine sand into the tank in the mixture. So when you have finished cleaning ... and shake the tank ... you wont hear a gravel rattle from inside the tank.

[F5 Dave]

My $0.02

Use std airfilter, anything else will alter how it runs. as above, I tend to clean filter & shake out petrol & let it airdry over night before applying new filter oil.

I'd just buy plain airfilter oil, its not expensive & will last ages on the road. Wrong oil here can cause running problems.

Gearbox oil, just buy 2 stroke gearbox oil, will protect the best & again isn't expensive.

The tank. Well yes Suzukis of that era were known for having rust prone tanks. Clean it out & monitor. If it gets bad you will have to use a tank sealer & there are enough threads on that subject.

[Ocean1]

The tank is the gathering place of ALL the crap that gets pumped into your tank via the nozzle of all the fuel stations you get petrol at. When fuel station tanks are low ... is usually the worst time. Stations that have a low volume of fuel pumped ... are even worse. The crud has more time to settle at the bottom of the tank and be a time bomb for unsuspecting motorists.
Your guess (and your fathers) is as good as any what it is. However ... it is not recommended that it remains in YOUR tank. (you may have figured that out yourself)

Water. Lurks at the bottom of any petrol bulk tank, station tank and eventually your bike tank. Those steel tanks were always a bit susceptable to rusting inside, and the cleaning trick is a good start. You can get special coating systems for inside the tank, but cleaning it out every once in a while is a good start. So is a wee in-line filter between your petrol tap and the carb, the clear plastic type that just plugs into the existing tubing.

[F5 Dave]

with the strict proviso that it can be situated so that it doesn't cause the fuel line to crimp, which was all but impossible on GS suzukis which needed it most. I have since found & used Right angle filters. Good idea.

[Ocean1]

with the strict proviso that it can be situated so that it doesn't cause the fuel line to crimp, which was all but impossible on GS suzukis which needed it most. I have since found & used Right angle filters. Good idea.

Pigs tails. :yes:

[Matariki]

Question About Transmission Oil

Any recommendations of what sort I should get in terms of brands etc.?
My manual states that my TS takes SAE 20w/40.

Question About Air Filter

My manual doesn't that air filter oil is necessary for cleaning the foam. It simply states that clean 2 stroke oil should be used to regenerate the foam. Are there any significant differences between using standard 2 stroke oil and air filter oil other than the price?

[bogan]

Chances are the transmission oil will be in there a lot longer than for a four stroke, but not subject to the carbon and heat that a 4T is. So with mine I just put a good brand oil (motul 5100) in it and leave it for ages; also worth noting it should be motorcycle suited with no clutch damaging friction modifiers.

Filter, it's my understanding air filter oil is there to enhance the function of the foam, not to clean it. I wash mine with warm water, then user filter oil so it'll grab the dust particles better. Just don't over oil it, bikes have been known to burn to the ground that way...

[F5 Dave]

The bike shop will have several brands of oil, just choose one that says its for 2 stroke g.box & you'll be fine.

If the filter gets dirty the dirt you wash away with a solvent, petrol comes to mind, but must use gloves. I just use a $1 polyethene squirty bottle & spread oil over the foam like one used to do with a squeezey Bear honey bottle, then kneed it in & redo till you'r happy its covered all of it - but not so much that its dripping or anything like that.

Supercheap will carry Castrol airfilter oil for under $12, stop pissing around. They'll have Silcolene gear oil too, both are good options, or just visit your local bike shop.

[Matariki]

Question about Carburetor

So iv'e cleaned out the carb, reassembled it, and started up the TS. The TS runs, but the carb is leaking out petrol out of the overflow pipe. Did I do something wrong?... :blink:

[FJRider]

A sticking float. Sometimes a tap on the fuel bowel with a screwdriver/Adjustable crescent will stop it. At worst you may need to take the fuel bowel off again and check the action of the float.

[bogan]

Does it leak only while running? If so does the bike have a vacuum activated petcock? If yes or no to both the it'll almost certainly be as FJRider described.

[Matariki]

Does it leak only while running? If so does the bike have a vacuum activated petcock? If yes or no to both the it'll almost certainly be as FJRider described.

I only noticed it leaking after I stopped the TS, I'm not sure whether or not it has a vacuum activated petcock. I will check the floats as FJRider suggested, I suspect that might be it because I wasn't 100% sure how the pin was supposed to be inserted. I will have to check over the manual again.

[Ocean1]

I only noticed it leaking after I stopped the TS, I'm not sure whether or not it has a vacuum activated petcock. I will check the floats as FJRider suggested, I suspect that might be it because I wasn't 100% sure how the pin was supposed to be inserted. I will have to check over the manual again.

It's earlier incarnations didn't have vacuum petcocks. Easy to tell, if it's got more than one tube connected to the petcock it's vacuum activated.

Good job stripping the carb, was much dirt in there? Not sure what retains the wee pin on that carb but it's not difficult to bend the float arms, making the float level wrong. You need to find out how to assemble the float correctly and THEN check the float level, correcting it if req'd.

[F5 Dave]

And unlike my friend back in the day, insert the float needle with the pointy end in the hole. he put the springy end in the hole & somehow it almost worked.

[Matariki]

It's earlier incarnations didn't have vacuum petcocks. Easy to tell, if it's got more than one tube connected to the petcock it's vacuum activated.

Good job stripping the carb, was much dirt in there? Not sure what retains the wee pin on that carb but it's not difficult to bend the float arms, making the float level wrong. You need to find out how to assemble the float correctly and THEN check the float level, correcting it if req'd.

The carb was pretty clean when I opened it up, there was a little bit of dirt here and there so I cleaned it while it was open.
Yes, the petcock is vacuum activated.

[Ocean1]

The carb was pretty clean when I opened it up, there was a little bit of dirt here and there so I cleaned it while it was open.
Yes, the petcock is vacuum activated.

A little bit of dirt in there can cause havoc.

So, even though it only leaks when it's running you need to sort it out. Have to remove the bowl, figure out how to remove and reinstall the float, check the float level and put the bowl back on. Easy.

[Matariki]

If it helps anyone, the carb in my TS is a Mikuni. Its a little different to the carb found in the older TS models, but it looks similar to this.

280500

[F5 Dave]

See part 8, teh float jet seat. I have had to replace the O-ring there before.

[Matariki]

See part 8, teh float jet seat. I have had to replace the O-ring there before.

Iv'e checked it, it doesn't look broken or cracked or anything like that.

[Matariki]

Good news, I got the carb working properly again. Its not leaking any more. I had placed the pin in correctly the first time I opened it up, so I'm not sure what could of happened that caused to the floats to stick. But I took apart again and redid it and this time measured the positioning of the float as according to the manual. The next job I'm looking at doing is changing the gearbox oil, and maybe cleaning out the exhaust pipe. The TS is still smoking when I start it up, but at least the smoke is clean now (clear).

So far I've been enjoying the process of getting to know how my motorcycle works. And Its nice to know that I can independently (for the most part - where would I be without this forum?) do my own maintenance and save money. :)

Thanks guys for responding to my questions, its much appreciated.

[FJRider]

Good news ...

Thanks guys for responding to my questions, its much appreciated.

Great to hear. And KB does have it's uses.

Older two-strokes often have the exhaust carboned up. Too bad ... and it can affect the engine performance.

Various methods can be used to clean it out. From cutting it in half (lengthwise) and scraping it off .... to filling and soaking the inside with various solvents then rinsing (then repeating a few times).

Remember ... the "stuff" inside the exhaust will be baked on ... so it can (will) take a bit to "remove" it.

[ktm84mxc]

Easiest way to clean a 2 smokes xhaust fire an oxy torch down the inside of the chamber and when alight just feed it oxygen , best to do it outside as they tend to smoke a bit.

[Ocean1]

Good news, I got the carb working properly again.

Excellent.


The next job I'm looking at doing is changing the gearbox oil, and maybe cleaning out the exhaust pipe. The TS is still smoking when I start it up, but at least the smoke is clean now (clear).

Gearbox oil change is pretty simple. The smoke on start-up doesn't mean the exhaust needs cleaning, it's just the oil condensing out of the exhaust gases onto the cold pipe and then smoking as it heats up again. From memory the baffles are held in by a screw in the side? If so you can take that out and have a look and a bit of a poke around inside. If you do want to clean it out there's two ways, both dangerous if you don't know what your doing.

The first uses oxy acetalyene, although a propane torch will work. You need the pipe off and you simply light the torch up, adjust it to oxy-rich and bung it up the engine end of the pipe. After a short while there'll be black smoke, have the vacuum cleaner handy with the hose on the blow end, when the black smoke get good and thick take the gas set out and shove the vacuum cleaner hose into the pipe, (blowing). Keep going until the black smoke stops or until the neighbours call the cops. This way stuffs up the paint, sobe prepared to sand the pipe back and repaint it when you've finished.

The other way uses caustic soda, (drain cleaner), the best way I've found is to stick a cork into the engine end of the pipe, pour half a cup of dry caustic soda into the other end and then add warm water, slowly, until it's full. Note: hot water and caustic react violently, and people have had it explode in their faces before now. After a couple of hrs leaned up against the gargre wall in the sun carefully pour it out onto the weed patch and then flush with the garden hose. After draining it well pour in a cup of vinegar to neutralise the CS, rattle that around for a couple of minutes, pour it out and rinse again. There'll still be some carbon in there but it tends to break up and get blown out during the next ride or two.

Ain't bikes fun.

[F5 Dave]

Good on ya for sticking with it.

Caustic if you must use it should be handled with gloves & goggles.

Most of the cleaning will be limited to the muffler, taken apart & burnt off with a torch, or maybe soaked in a small vessel with some caustic may be the easiest. Replacement muffler lagging is available from the shop or Torpedo7 website.

[Matariki]

Question About Carburetor

Although the Carburetor is working fine now, I need to readjust the idle speed on the TS. My manual states that this can be done by adjusting the throttle stop screw (my manual doesn't really explain how to do this). The manual recommends the TS at idle to be running at 1300 ± 150 rpm (again, I don't fully understand what this means either). 1300 rpm seems a little low and my TS falters out at 1300 rpm, even when the engine has been running for a few minutes.

[Matariki]

Gearbox oil change is pretty simple. The smoke on start-up doesn't mean the exhaust needs cleaning, it's just the oil condensing out of the exhaust gases onto the cold pipe and then smoking as it heats up again.

Right, that makes sense. The smoke isn't dirty, there is allot of it when the TS starts up, but I take it thats normal. There isn't much smoke once the TS is warmed up (except when changing gears while I'm riding).

[FJRider]

Right, that makes sense. The smoke isn't dirty, there is allot of it when the TS starts up, but I take it thats normal. There isn't much smoke once the TS is warmed up (except when changing gears while I'm riding).

The day to worry is when a two-stroke doesn't smoke.

Smoke is ok ... just not enough to foul the plug is good.

[F5 Dave]

There isn't much smoke once the TS is warmed up (except when changing gears while I'm riding).
sounds fine.

[F5 Dave]

Question About Carburetor

Although the Carburetor is working fine now, I need to readjust the idle speed on the TS. My manual states that this can be done by adjusting the throttle stop screw (my manual doesn't really explain how to do this). The manual recommends the TS at idle to be running at 1300 ± 150 rpm (again, I don't fully understand what this means either). 1300 rpm seems a little low and my TS falters out at 1300 rpm, even when the engine has been running for a few minutes.

So have you found the screw? There should be two flat head screws on the Left side of the bike on the carb.

one will be lower & more to the rear. that is the idle mixture. One twiddles this in & out say no more than a full turn either direction from where it is now until the idle is highest/smoothest, although often it isn't that noticeable so return it to where it was if no improvement.

If one did find the bike falter when taking off or cracking the throttle on, then turning this screw in some more might help.

The other screw is higher & to the middle of the carb. That is the idle speed & just limits how far the throttle closes off the main airflow. turn it in should raise the idle, out lower it. Give it a try until you find a place it will idle ok, at least for a short while. 2 strokes often don't like just idling all day & night like a 4 stroke, so don't lose any sleep over it, but should idle long enough that it can be civil at intersections.

[Matariki]

So have you found the screw? There should be two flat head screws on the Left side of the bike on the carb.

one will be lower & more to the rear. that is the idle mixture. One twiddles this in & out say no more than a full turn either direction from where it is now until the idle is highest/smoothest, although often it isn't that noticeable so return it to where it was if no improvement.

If one did find the bike falter when taking off or cracking the throttle on, then turning this screw in some more might help.

The other screw is higher & to the middle of the carb. That is the idle speed & just limits how far the throttle closes off the main airflow. turn it in should raise the idle, out lower it. Give it a try until you find a place it will idle ok, at least for a short while. 2 strokes often don't like just idling all day & night like a 4 stroke, so don't lose any sleep over it, but should idle long enough that it can be civil at intersections.

My bike has the one screw above the throttle stop screw. The bike at the moment doesn't idle, I have to keep my hand on the throttle otherwise the engine falters. It falters out at 1500 rpm.
Does tightening the screws increase the idle or decrease it?

[FJRider]

My bike has the one screw above the throttle stop screw. The bike at the moment doesn't idle, I have to keep my hand on the throttle otherwise the engine falters. It falters out at 1500 rpm.
Does tightening the screws increase the idle or decrease it?

Increases it. Try a half turn at a time with the engine running. Set idle speed at such it is steady without you holding the throttle on.

[Matariki]

Increases it. Try a half turn at a time with the engine running. Set idle speed at such it is steady without you holding the throttle on.

Should I do that with both screws?

[FJRider]

Should I do that with both screws?

The one on the throttle stop. Usually there is a locking nut as well that will need loosened first.

Sometimes lengthening the throttle cable outer is required. But take a close look at the adjusting screw at the carb first though. You will figure it out by yourself I think. While looking at the throttle stop you open/twist the throttle at the handlebar. You will see what is needed.

[Matariki]

The one on the throttle stop. Usually there is a locking nut as well that will need loosened first.

Sometimes lengthening the throttle cable outer is required. But take a close look at the adjusting screw at the carb first though. You will figure it out by yourself I think. While looking at the throttle stop you open/twist the throttle at the handlebar. You will see what is needed.

On my carb, I have a Throttle valve sighting plug which is a phillips head and is located above the Throttle stop screw. There is no locking nut on my carb. Just so I understand, here is what my carb looks like (its not the one that's on my TS, but this is a photo of the same model).

280992

[FJRider]

On my carb, I have a Throttle valve sighting plug which is a phillips head and is located above the Throttle stop screw. There is no locking nut on my carb. Just so I understand, here is what my carb looks like (its not the one that's on my TS, but this is a photo of the same model).



The one on the left in the pic with the coiled spring attached will be the idle adjuster. Turn clockwise to increase the revs. The one on top of the carb is to adjust the length of throttle cable outer. And will have another similar at the bar end of the cable. Adjust the cable outer so there is no (well very tiny amount is good) slack with/at the throttle handle before you adjust idle speed. SO ... as you twist the throttle handle (forward or back)... the response is immediate.

Half or quarter turns of the adjuster at a time ... then give it a few revs (not that much) with the throttle ... then let the engine settle its revs. Before another 1/2 or 1/4 turn.

Repeat the process until desired rev's reached for constant good idle.

It helps if you set idle speed with a good clean plug fitted.

[Matariki]

The one on the left in the pic with the coiled spring attached will be the idle adjuster. Turn clockwise to increase the revs. The one on top of the carb is to adjust the length of throttle cable outer. And will have another similar at the bar end of the cable. Adjust the cable outer so there is no (well very tiny amount is good) slack with/at the throttle handle before you adjust idle speed. SO ... as you twist the throttle handle (forward or back)... the response is immediate.

Half or quarter turns of the adjuster at a time ... then give it a few revs (not that much) with the throttle ... then let the engine settle its revs. Before another 1/2 or 1/4 turn.

Repeat the process until desired rev's reached for constant good idle.

It helps if you set idle speed with a good clean plug fitted.

I've been trying this, but for some reason whether I tighten it up or untighten it, my TS still doesn't want to idle. The engine is still cutting out even after I've warmed up the engine for 5 or so minutes...

[bogan]

Just an FYI, its good practice to 'down adjust' the idle if you have slide carbs otherwise you can damage the slide cos the idle screw just screws into a ramp on it. So rev it up with the throttle, then screw in the idle screw, let go of the throttle at which point it should be idling too high; then screw out the idle adjuster until it idles where you want it.

[Matariki]

Just an FYI, its good practice to 'down adjust' the idle if you have slide carbs otherwise you can damage the slide cos the idle screw just screws into a ramp on it. So rev it up with the throttle, then screw in the idle screw, let go of the throttle at which point it should be idling too high; then screw out the idle adjuster until it idles where you want it.

Should I start with the idle screw fully tightened?

[bogan]

Should I start with the idle screw fully tightened?

Nah, its just you need to screw it in when the slide is raised, then out to adjust the idle.

[Matariki]

Nah, its just you need to screw it in when the slide is raised, then out to adjust the idle.

"Slide is raised, then out"?
Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand what youre referring to...

[bogan]

"Slide is raised, then out"?
Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand what youre referring to...

Slide is raised when you turn the throttle.
Then you screw the idle adjuster in so the slide is not in contact with the screw.
Then release the throttle to lower the slide onto the idle adjuster screw.
Then screw out the idle adjuster screw to lower the idle to what you need it to be.

[Matariki]

Slide is raised when you turn the throttle.
Then you screw the idle adjuster in so the slide is not in contact with the screw.
Then release the throttle to lower the slide onto the idle adjuster screw.
Then screw out the idle adjuster screw to lower the idle to what you need it to be.

That makes sense. Thanks, I'll have a look. :yes:

[Matariki]

Hmm... my TS still doesn't want to idle (even after following FJRider's and Bogans suggestions). I'm not sure what's wrong, it might be that I'm not experienced enough to adjust it on my own. :confused:

[bogan]

Hmm... my TS still doesn't want to idle (even after following FJRider's and Bogans suggestions). I'm not sure what's wrong, it might be that I'm not experienced enough to adjust it on my own. :confused:

Re-summarise the:

1) Current problem
2) What you've attempted to do to fix it
3) Any previous problems and their fixes that might be related

I'll have a look-see and try and do some internet diagnosis on that, as 50odd posts makes it just too hard to go back through and offer advice with much usefulness.

[Matariki]

Re-summarise the:

1) Current problem

My Suzuki TS won't idle even after the engine is warmed up. Before cleaning my carburetor, the TS idled comfortably at around 1300 rpm.


2) What you've attempted to do to fix it

I have attempted to adjust the idle screw on the carburetor while the TS was running (after I had warmed up the engine). I have also opened up the carb to make sure that the throttle cable was in properly. I did try to disconnect the throttle cable so I could have a proper look at the slide and spring that sits in the carb, I'm not sure however how to do this.


3) Any previous problems and their fixes that might be related

Not sure of any previous problems. However, the throttle cable (where it connects to the throttle itself) looks a bit worn (will post photos if necessary). I did open up the throttle, but ended up putting it back together. Sometimes the throttle (both before and after) does stick at around 4000 rpm. I did have an incident where the floats were sticking after opening up the carb the first time, I corrected this problem by opening up the carb
and readjusting the floats as according to my manual. I have also recently changed the engine oil, cleaned the airfilter and changed the gearbox oil.


I'll have a look-see and try and do some internet diagnosis on that, as 50odd posts makes it just too hard to go back through and offer advice with much usefulness.

Thanks, that would be a huge help.

[bogan]

Are there any other problems like surging or bogging at certain rpms/throttle openings? It sounds like the low speed circuit mixture is a bit off.

There's a few checks and things that I've done with CV carbs for four strokes, but not sure how they transfer over to slide carb two stroke.

The simplest one is probably the high idle mixture screw setting. Where you adjust the idle to around 2500rpm, then adjust the mixture screw until it both sounds good, and has the highest idle. Does the carb have an easily accessible mixture screw? and have you adjusted it at all?

[Matariki]

Are there any other problems like surging or bogging at certain rpms/throttle openings? It sounds like the low speed circuit mixture is a bit off.

There's a few checks and things that I've done with CV carbs for four strokes, but not sure how they transfer over to slide carb two stroke.

The simplest one is probably the high idle mixture screw setting. Where you adjust the idle to around 2500rpm, then adjust the mixture screw until it both sounds good, and has the highest idle. Does the carb have an easily accessible mixture screw? and have you adjusted it at all?

I'm not sure If I follow you. My TS isn't idling, so I'm not sure how to adjust it to where I can tell its at 2500 rpm. In terms or surging or bogging, it usually happens (sometimes) when I open up the throttle past half way and the TS hits 4000 rpm, it sticks at around 4000 - 6000 rpm.

I haven't adjusted the mixture screw (I don't know whether its called the Pilot air screw or the throttle valve sighting plug) either way, they're both on as tight as I could tighten them.

[bogan]

I'm not sure If I follow you. My TS isn't idling, so I'm not sure how to adjust it to where I can tell its at 2500 rpm. In terms or surging or bogging, it usually happens (sometimes) when I open up the throttle past half way and the TS hits 4000 rpm, it sticks at around 4000 - 6000 rpm.

I haven't adjusted the mixture screw (I don't know whether its called the Pilot air screw or the throttle valve sighting plug) either way, they're both on as tight as I could tighten them.

What the lowest speed you can get it to sit comfortably at with the throttle then?

Hmmm, if there is a mixture screw, it definetly shouldn't be as tight as it can go.

[Matariki]

What the lowest speed you can get it to sit comfortably at with the throttle then?

Hmmm, if there is a mixture screw, it definetly shouldn't be as tight as it can go.

I had another look through my manual and I found the following (which I don't fully understand):


Poor running at idle and low speed: Fuel/air mixture incorrect


Intake air leak - Check carburettor mountings and air cleaner hoses for security and signs of splitting. Ensure that carburettor top is tight and that the vacuum gauge take-off plug (where fitted) is tight.
Mixture strength incorrect - Adjust slow running mixture strength using pilot adjustment screw.
Carburettor synchronisation
Pilot jet or slow running circuit blocked - The carburettor should be removed and dismantled for thorough cleaning. Blow through all jets and air passages with compressed air to clear obstructions.
Air cleaner clogged or omitted - Clean or fit air cleaner element as necessary. Check also that the element and air filter cover are correctly seated.
Cold start mechanism in operation - Check that choke has not been left on inadvertently and the operation is correct. Where applicable check the operating cable free play.
Fuel level too high or too low - Check float height, adjusting the float tang if required.
Fuel tank air vent obstructed - Obstructions usually caused by dirt or water. Clean vent orifice.


I have checked 1,4,5,6,7 and 8. I'm not sure about 2 and 3.


"Adjustment of the cable is correct when there is a 0.5 - 1.0mm (0.02 - 0.04 in) of free movement in the cable outer when it is pulled out of its adjuster at the carburettor top."

I'm not sure how to measure the amount of free movement.


"When fitting the throttle stop and pilot air screws, ensure that each screw is first screwed fully in, until it seats lightly and then set to its previously noted position. Alternatively, set the pilot air screw to the setting given in the specifications section of this chapter (UK models only). The setting of the throttle stop screw will then have to be determined by following the adjustment procedure listed in section 9 of this chapter. With US models, take careful note of the information given in the following section."

I'm not sure what 'seats lightly' means (is the manual referring to 'finger tight'?). My TS is a UK Model. The manual in section 9 depicts a graph (Fig. 2.6 Carburettor mixture strength chart) with the following (hopefully this makes sense);


Throttle opening: 1/4 1/2 3/4 Full

Pilot air screw: Sits in the 1/4 section, with its tip (pointed part) overlapping slightly on the 1/2 section.
Jet needle: The bottom rounded part sits halfway in the 1/4 section, overlaps the 1/2 section and 3/4 section. The tip slightly overlaps the full section.
Main jet: The very edge of the tip (pointed part) overlaps the 1/2 section, overlaps the 3/4 section and the bottom rounded part overlaps half of the full section.

Again, not sure what this means.


"When the carburettor correctly refitted and with the engine running at its normal operating temperature, set the throttle stop screw to give the slowest possible idle speed. Turn the pilot air screw in by a fraction of a turn at a time until the engine begins to falter. Now back the screw off progressively whilst noting the number of turns required to reach the point where the engine starts to run erratically. The correct position for the pilot air screw is mid-way between the two extremes when it will be found that the engine is idling at its fastest. This should be close to the recommended setting. At this point, the engine should be idling at the recommended speed. If the reading on the tachometer (where fitted) indicates an idle speed which is slightly outside of the recommended, then the throttle stop screw should be turned until the indicated speed is correct."

Can somebody translate this to laymans (or laywomans) english? I'm confused... :facepalm:


"Always guard against the possibility of incorrect carburettor adjustment which will result in a weak mixture. Two-stroke engines are very susceptible to this type of fault, causing rapid overheating and often subsequent engine seizure. Changes in carburation leading to a weak mixture will occur if the air cleaner is removed or disconnected, or if the silencer is tampered with in anyway. Above all, do not add oil to the petrol, in the mistaken belief that it will aid lubrication. Adequate lubrication is provided by the throttle controlled oil pump."

What's the difference between a weak mixture and a rich mixture, and what is a normal mixture?

[bogan]

That all sounds pretty standard, the translate this bit, is much the same as I suggested with the high idle mix adjustment.

Using the throttle, what is the lowest stable engine speed you can get it to run at?

[Matariki]

That all sounds pretty standard, the translate this bit, is much the same as I suggested with the high idle mix adjustment.

Using the throttle, what is the lowest stable engine speed you can get it to run at?

I would have to sit at my bike and check, but from memory, around 1500 - 2000rpm (thats with me keeping my hand slightly on the throttle). If I remove my hand altogether, the engine falters out.

[Matariki]

I watched this video, I think I understand the relationship between both screws. First I need to adjust the idle screw to where the engine sits at 1300rpm (before faltering out). Then I need to adjust the mixture screw as according to the manual's recommendations. I hadn't realized that I had to do both sides of the carb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpQjDQzX7g

[Matariki]

Hmm... now I have a new problem. My TS is idling at 3000rpm (with the coke on) and when I turn the throttle it surges up to 4000rpm and slowly creeps down to 3500rpm. I tried adjusting both the mixture screw and throttle screw (loosening them) but the TS isn't responding to either. The TS falters out when I turn off the choke. I hope I haven't screwed up the carb or the engine. :facepalm: :brick: :crybaby:

[Matariki]

Does anyone here by any chance know what the idle screw and mixture screw settings are for the TS 185? My manual doesn't specify.

[bogan]

If you have to run it with the choke on, it generally means the mixture is too lean, and you need to turn the mixture screw out. I've no idea what the TS setting are, but a common range is 1.5 to 2.5 turns out on many other bikes. So turn it in all the wy until you feel it bottom out (don't tighten it), then back out 2 full turns, then see if it will run without the choke.

[bogan]

I would have to sit at my bike and check, but from memory, around 1500 - 2000rpm (thats with me keeping my hand slightly on the throttle). If I remove my hand altogether, the engine falters out.

Hmmm, it could be that the idle adjustment is damaged, so you may need hold the throttle steady at about 2000 to 2500 rpm when adjusting the mixture while running. Vice grips (over some rubber to protect the handgrip) the throttle against the brake level if you need to so as to ensure a constant throttle position for the tuning.

[ducatilover]

Want me to come have a look at it tomorrow or Wednesday?

[Matariki]

Want me to come have a look at it tomorrow or Wednesday?

That would be great, what time or day would suit you best?

[FJRider]

I haven't adjusted the mixture screw (I don't know whether its called the Pilot air screw or the throttle valve sighting plug) either way, they're both on as tight as I could tighten them.

Try just screwing the small brass bit (where the throttle cable enters the carb) anti-clockwise. This will lengthen the throttle cable outer and increase the revs by pulling on the cable inner.

[ducatilover]

That would be great, what time or day would suit you best?

I'll PM you :yes:

[Dances With Poultry]

Did you get this sorted? There's a ton of help at www.suzukits.com, a website I run.

Cheers

Nigel in Amberley