Rego problem

[Expert]

Ok, this is about a car, but it applies to bikes aswell.

i sold a car through trademe in July of last year to a motor dealer, noreservecars. He came to where i work to pick it up and paid up but didn't bring any paperwork or anything, just paid cash and left saying he would email me his details so i could notify disposal of it. Nothing arrived so i just filled out the form saying it was no longer mine and put down his email in the address box for the new owner. being a dealer i assumed he would sort his end out and it would all be good..

i've just moved backinto the house i was in when i sold the car and i've got a bill for non payment of rego. emailing/trying to contact have not worked, a phonecall to nz transport says i'm liable for the rego even though i havent owned the car for nearly a year.

What recourse do i have on this? who should be responsible for registering the car?

Rather than opinion, has anyone got any legal knowhow on this sort of thing?

[Akzle]

i've got a bill for non payment of rego. emailing/trying to contact have not worked, a phonecall to nz transport says i'm liable for the rego even though i havent owned the car for nearly a year.

What recourse do i have on this? who should be responsible for registering the car?

Rather than opinion, has anyone got any legal knowhow on this sort of thing?

yes. legally, you are responsible until the new owner completes change of ownership form MR10111010100011.3

see, the government like to keep their database up to date, and, someone has to pay.
that someone is the registered owner. if they (buyer) haven't registered their person as a registered owner, and you did, previously. guess whut? your person is the registered owner.

recourse: no. pay up. it's for the good of all motorists and the safety of the NZ public.

[Madness]

Our green friend is correct. You're fucked.

[bogan]

Don't vehicles just get deregistered if they aren't paid for a while? Or do you have to back-pay the rego on them?

[Madness]

Don't vehicles just get deregistered if they aren't paid for a while? Or do you have to back-pay the rego on them?

I think they drop off after a year or two but the registered owner is liable for any unpaid rego up to that point where it is de-reg'd.

The OP should either chase the buyer to follow through or go & make a declaration to register it to "persons unknown" if they can't track the buyer. Sounds dodgy as feck anyway, how many kosher dealers buy used cars off TardMe?

[bogan]

Stink, is it rego on-hold vehicles that drop off the system without needing back paying then?

[carburator]

Trader Number M180428

Expired 17 Jan 2012

Trading Name No Reserve Cars
Other Trading Name(s)
Address for Service

9 Kempthorne Cres, Mission Bay, Auckland, NZ
Individual's Name Basturkmen Solen Antony

Also Known As
Residential Address

9 Kempthorne Cres, Mission Bay, Auckland, NZ
Date Of Birth 12 September 1985

Occupation Car Salesman

[Scuba_Steve]

Stink, is it rego on-hold vehicles that drop off the system without needing back paying then?

rego on-hold stay on the system as long as you keep putting them on-hold, the only vehicles that drop off "silently" are vehicles that do not require constant rego i.e. classics, trailers etc
Every other vehicle will drop off with a demand followed by baycorp from NZTA

[clonak]

Had a kind of similar experience. Sold a car on trademe to a wrecker, on the phone they said keep the plates and deregister it. When they came to pick it up, the guy said he might keep it, so dont deregister it just yet, he will call me. After a week, I hadnt heard anything, so took the plates in. 2 weeks later I recieve $400 in parking fines (car had no wof/reg) and a counsel towage fee, apparently he had parked it on the road, with no plates(must have run the vin number) and the same day it got towed. Luckly for me they had given me a recipt, plus I had the link to the auction as proof it had sold. So I sent a email off with all the information, and they accepted it. Unfortunately for you, it seems you do not have such information, and unless you can track him down, your gonna be suckered with the bill. Check here (http://https://transact.nzta.govt.nz/transactions/ConfirmRegisteredPerson/entry.aspx) and see if you are still the registered owner. If you are, head down to your local AA or VTNZ and deregister it, but note you are still liable as the last registered owner, should the car still be in use.

At the VERY least when selling a vehicle, make them fill out their half of the desposing of vehicle form, because if they havent changed ownership in a certain period, they are liable for prosecution I beleive. But never let a vehicle leave your possesion with out proof of change of ownership. There is always a AA or such around the corner, or you can do it online these days. Never take thier word for it, especially used car salesmen.

[Madness]

head down to your local AA or VTNZ and deregister it.

Considering the time that has passed since it was sold I think that's fair enough although if it was a (much) more recent sale & I was the buyer I'd be pretty pissed if the car all of a sudden needed to be re-vinned. You might need to hand in the plates to be able to de-register it in which case I'm pretty sure you can still sign a declaration to have it taken out of your name.

[AllanB]

Apparently you own the car still.

Call the police and file a stolen car report.

[Madness]

Apparently you own the car still.

Call the police and file a stolen car report.

Vehicle registration in NZ is all about liability & has nothing to do with actual ownership. To report the car stolen would be commiting a crime in itself.

[AllanB]

Apparently there was no paperwork. I propose the payment received was for 12 months rental. The vehicle has not been returned, thus considered stolen!!!! Bawahahhaahhahahahahah

Car Dealers - can you trust them?

Actually I had to chase up a bike dealer 5 years back when I traded a bike in and they took two months to change ownership.....

[hayd3n]

go online and put it on hold just did mine and it cost me nothing

[Madness]

go online and put it on hold just did mine and it cost me nothing

I'll bet you $1 you can't do that with months of unpaid back-rego outstanding.

[AllanB]

go online and put it on hold just did mine and it cost me nothing

Ohhhh did they need any specific ID?

I know a bitch's rego I'd like to put on hold just to get her a fine!!!!!

[FJRider]

Ohhhh did they need any specific ID?

I know a bitch's rego I'd like to put on hold just to get her a fine!!!!!

Just change the ownership ... fill out the form ... $9 I think. In about a month ... report it stolen.

Change it to somebody else you dont like. (2 birds with one form)

[clonak]

Considering the time that has passed since it was sold I think that's fair enough although if it was a (much) more recent sale & I was the buyer I'd be pretty pissed if the car all of a sudden needed to be re-vinned. You might need to hand in the plates to be able to de-register it in which case I'm pretty sure you can still sign a declaration to have it taken out of your name.

I degregistered a car with out the plates in my youth, but the cops had taken them so they were probably handed in. I am pretty sure you can get away with deregistering it with out the plates or the license lable(apparently they want that too) because on the form it askes for an explanation as to why you are not handing them in, IE "left on the vehicle, unknown where abouts", although I have not tried that. Ill have to look into that declaration, I do recall something along those lines once before now that you mention it. Its worth popping down and talking to them at the counter anyway, they'll know what to do. Maybe.

[Kickaha]

I'll bet you $1 you can't do that with months of unpaid back-rego outstanding.

I've done it twice a couple of months out of rego and didn't have to backpay anything, I was expecting to as previously I'd had it happen

[Madness]

I've done it twice a couple of months out of rego and didn't have to backpay anything, I was expecting to as previously I'd had it happen

There's probably a grace period, after which has expired they can legally arse-fuck you till the cows come home. How far out was yours?

[bogan]

There's probably a grace period, after which has expired they can legally arse-fuck you till the cows come home. How far out was yours?

I think its three months that is the cutoff.

[Akzle]

Don't vehicles just get deregistered if they aren't paid for a while? Or do you have to back-pay the rego on them?
there's this term registration, and this other one continuous vehicle licensing (cvl).
legally, as a registered owner, you are required to ensure: your vehicle is continuously licenced; your vehicle is exempt from continuous licensing, or; your vehicle's continuous licensing is suspended (on hold).
if you don't talk to ltnz for 12 months, they will assume that you meant to pay CVL, but forgot, at that point in time, the vehicle will be de-registered, and you will be sent a bill for the CVL for the last 12 months.
if your licensing is on hold for 3 months, and you don't talk to them, you'll get the bill in 15 months.
once your vehicle is de-registered, you must pay for low volume certification ("re-vinning") and then registration and then licensing fees.

go online and put it on hold just did mine and it cost me nothing
doesn't work if registration has lapsed.

suspending CVL can be done online, providing your legal person doesn't owe anything, in which case it must be paid first.

Ohhhh did they need any specific ID?

I know a bitch's rego I'd like to put on hold just to get her a fine!!!!!

yes, you provide a driving license number, preferably the one that identifies the person registered in respect of the motor vehicle.

[Ender EnZed]

rego on-hold stay on the system as long as you keep putting them on-hold, the only vehicles that drop off "silently" are vehicles that do not require constant rego i.e. classics, trailers etc
Every other vehicle will drop off with a demand followed by baycorp from NZTA

Disagree. I know of mulitple instances in which the registered owner has simply not paid for 12 months, rego expired/vehicle deregistered, nothing happened. Still nothing. More nothing.


I degregistered a car with out the plates in my youth, but the cops had taken them so they were probably handed in. I am pretty sure you can get away with deregistering it with out the plates or the license lable(apparently they want that too) because on the form it askes for an explanation as to why you are not handing them in..... Its worth popping down and talking to them at the counter anyway, they'll know what to do. Maybe.

There's definitely a bit of a grey area here. My understanding is that you'll be fine without the plates provided you can manage explanation to at least equal and preferable exceed "ahh, umm, fuck, err, ahh, shit, I, um, errr, ahh, lost em ey?, bro?" as your response to the location of the plates.


Stink, is it rego on-hold vehicles that drop off the system without needing back paying then?

Definitely.


I think its three months that is the cutoff.

I don't think so.

It's a nice idea but I'm pretty sure it's just trailers that can get away with unpaid rego when it's not on hold.

[Ender EnZed]

To the OP; I recommend ringing NZTA on their 0800 number and explaining the situation. They can be surprisingly efficient when you're taking to an actual person and they probably deal with cases like yours all too often. If you have any evidence that you've sold it (and in this day and age TradeMe can count for more than legislation might suggest) then you should be alright.

[Scuba_Steve]

Disagree. I know of mulitple instances in which the registered owner has simply not paid for 12 months, rego expired/vehicle deregistered, nothing happened. Still nothing. More nothing.


I have 2 baycorps that say otherwise; When we went for a mortgage & it was possibly an issue, we we're told "yea NZTA hand them out like candy, as long as you've got a good reason most banks will ignore NZTA baycorps (exception being Westpac apparently)" needless to say we got the mortgage & NZTA can still go fuck themselves :motu: :yes:
So there are plenty of people with baycorps from NZTA so much so they've sorta become a joke when issued from NZTA, they've just taken it too far.

[davereid]

I have 2 baycorps that say otherwise; When we went for a mortgage & it was possibly an issue, we we're told "yea NZTA hand them out like candy, as long as you've got a good reason most banks will ignore NZTA baycorps (exception being Westpac apparently)" needless to say we got the mortgage & NZTA can still go fuck themselves :motu: :yes:
So there are plenty of people with baycorps from NZTA so much so they've sorta become a joke when issued from NZTA, they've just taken it too far.

Yeah NZTA like to play it dirty. Charge you for a service you don't want. And they eventually de-register the car so you never got the service and they have applied a penalty. And Baycorp you as well. Even if you pay the vehicle is still de-registered.

But no one cares about NZTA bad debts, as you say they are seldom an issue with getting credit, and other than baycorp they just go away.

But the fines etc dont.

The OP should attempt to deregister the vehicle. If they wont let him without him handing in plates, report the plates lost. Get a new set. Then deregister it.

[biggo]

I had a similar problem when I sold a car but I had filled in a MR13A form with the person I sold the car to and sent it to NZTA. The NZTA agreed that I had done all I could and chased the guy I sold it too never heard any more

[hayd3n]

i put my xl on hold 2 months after the rego was due,
cost me nothing

[hayd3n]

Ohhhh did they need any specific ID?

I know a bitch's rego I'd like to put on hold just to get her a fine!!!!!

just used my drivers licence

[jaykay]

Forgot to put a bike on retention one year. NZTA wouldn't put it in on hold until I paid (something like $50). Transferred the bike to another identity ($9), then put it on hold.

Cue letters from Baycorp etc. Eventually I instructed then to remove it from my credit file as it was in dispute and there had never been any indication it would end up there, they removed it.

At a basic level it would appear there is no legal mechanism for the NZTA to get the money ie you can't be taken through a criminal court. Possibly there is a civil debt, but debt collecting companies have no powers to do anything and will never take anyone to court.

I have never, and will never, send any money to debt collectors in any case.

[Akzle]

At a basic level it would appear there is no legal mechanism for the NZTA to get the money ie you can't be taken through a criminal court. Possibly there is a civil debt, but debt collecting companies have no powers to do anything and will never take anyone to court.

there's no lawful justification for there existence, or their ridiculous fees, and at a guess, they make enough money off every one else to not bother chasing you.

i do wonder why baycorp takes the debts though.

as far as a criminal offense: a crime requires a victim (an injured party), since you didn't injure anyone, it's not a criminal offense.

at best, a civil offense. a civil offense requires , in this instance, a breach of contract, as a legal person, registered owner, general or otherwise subject of the state, you're contracted up the wahzoo.

a debt collection company may take your legal person to court, being that most people don't have a fucking clue about court. if they've got their ducks in a row, you'll walk out with a bill and court costs on top.

as it is, LTNZ don't have any ducks, and certainly don't seem to give any to baycorp, and it's this lack of ducks that prevents any further action via the defacto "justice" system.

[davereid]

there's no lawful justification for there existence, or their ridiculous fees, and at a guess, they make enough money off every one else to not bother chasing you.

i do wonder why baycorp takes the debts though.

as far as a criminal offense: a crime requires a victim (an injured party), since you didn't injure anyone, it's not a criminal offense.


Baycorp take the debts as they get your drivers licence number, which is your ID card and the number never changes even if your name does. So its great for the database.

NZTA never pursue the debt beyond baycorp for reasons unknown to me. But possibly because they would have to prove they provided a service.

As they de-register a vehicle for non payment after two years but still continue to demand the debt, without re-instating the vehicle registration if you pay it, they are thieves.

ie even if you pay for it, they wont supply it. But its the NZTA. No surprises there.

[Akzle]

Baycorp take the debts as they get your drivers licence number, which is your ID card and the number never changes even if your name does. So its great for the database.


...But its the NZTA. No surprises there.

MY driver's license number? MY ID card??

i think you'll find in legislation, and probably even on the card, that "the license remains the property of the issuing authority"

so if they own the license............ they own the debt?

[Scuba_Steve]

i think you'll find in legislation, and probably even on the card, that "the license remains the property of the issuing authority"

so if they own the license............ they own the debt?

Why not? they also own the plates, so it's only fair the debt against them is theirs to own too

[davereid]

MY driver's license number? MY ID card??

i think you'll find in legislation, and probably even on the card, that "the license remains the property of the issuing authority"

so if they own the license............ they own the debt?

It is still your ID card. It matters not that you don't own it. Slaves don't own their iron collars either.

The next generation of ID cards is almost ready. The DIA just about have "real me" going. Then you will have an ID card you don't even carry. Those interested in ensuring they have the correct slave er citizen identified simply download it when they want it.

[Akzle]

It is still your ID card. It matters not that you don't own it. Slaves don't own their iron collars either.

The next generation of ID cards is almost ready. The DIA just about have "real me" going. Then you will have an ID card you don't even carry. Those interested in ensuring they have the correct slave er citizen identified simply download it when they want it.

no it isn't.

it identifies a corporate fiction. i am not a corporate fiction.
also, you are "the holder" of a license, not the owner.

i assume you mean microchipping.?

microwave scanners to catch speeders. awesome idea. because failing to comply with legislation should be punished severely.

[davereid]

no it isn't.

it identifies a corporate fiction. i am not a corporate fiction.
also, you are "the holder" of a license, not the owner.


It matters not that it identifies you, a corporate fiction, or whether you hold it have it or are simply constrained by it.

It exists. You will be compelled to have it. And it will be used to control your life.

[Akzle]

It matters not that it identifies you, a corporate fiction, or whether you hold it have it or are simply constrained by it.

It exists. You will be compelled to have it. And it will be used to control your life.


rather not have one then, eh?