Why should a new rider go for low-powered bikes?

[94ZZR1100]

I am pretty much a newbie I only rode a 250cc ZZR for 1 year or so then I got a 1100cc ZZR and I really am starting to think it's a myth that you will kill yourself if you start on a high powered bike.

It's pretty much the same but harder on the handling but still if you don't ride like a mad man I don't see how it is suicide. The front wheel does come up by mistake sometimes but it's never caused me to crash or any grief as such you simply lay off the throttle.

What is your thoughts on this? I reckon an idiots an idiot and will kill themselves on a anything > 50cc anyway.

[Milts]

Well, I'm sure the research would show otherwise.

The attached image has some common arguments. There are many more.
Here are some in video form.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKsOGFh3Efk
http://bikerpunks.com/mediaviewer/3975/top-five-beginner-motorcycle-crashes.html

Now it's possible that those people would have munted themselves even on a smaller/less powerful bike. But it is both less likely, and when it happens, it is less likely to be at high speed. So although you can't say that in every situation beginning on a smaller motorcycle will save life/injury, overall it saves a large amount of both.

[94ZZR1100]

Well, I'm sure the research would show otherwise.

The attached image has some common arguments. There are many more.
Here are some in video form.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKsOGFh3Efk
http://bikerpunks.com/mediaviewer/3975/top-five-beginner-motorcycle-crashes.html

Now it's possible that those people would have munted themselves even on a smaller/less powerful bike. But it is both less likely, and when it happens, it is less likely to be at high speed. So although you can't say that in every situation beginning on a smaller motorcycle will save life/injury, overall it saves a large amount of both.

What about going from a 250cc to 1000cc > I really think it depends on the type of bike. The ZZR models seem to handle much the same and they not a heavy bike even at the higher power range.

[paturoa]

Have you noticed how it is only the people who have had the experience of learning to ride bikes, and now own large grunty bikes recommend this for newbies?

Ditto with planes and helicopters too.

[Madness]

At 233Kg dry I can't agree that the ZZR1100 isn't a heavy bike.

[94ZZR1100]

Have you noticed how it is only the people who have had the experience of learning to ride bikes, and now own large grunty bikes recommend this for newbies?

Ditto with planes and helicopters too.

I wasn't really meaning a high powered bike as your first bike what I meant was going from a 250cc to a 1000cc> rather then going 400,600 ect. I think what ever bike you have you learnt THAT bike is what you know. I think I would kill myself if I jumped on someone else 250cc and tried going full tit.

I myself went 50cc scooter, 125cc scooter, 250cc zzr, 1100zzr. The 125cc scooter to 250cc bike was the biggest learning curve.

[Mushu]

It depends on the rider and the bike, a ZZR is a pretty easy bike to ride but it is also quite heavy which can get you in trouble at low speed. Even the 250s are kinda heavy when compared to CBR250, ninja 250 etc... and you would have learned a few things without realizing it.

I still have my 6L but I made the decision to upgrade when I felt I had the necessary skill and over 10000km later I know for sure that I would be lucky to be alive without all the experience gained on my little ninja and theres no way my R6 would have survived this long (or even the ride back from Auckland) without that previous experience, the biggest lesson I learned was actually due to crashing the little ninja about 3 months after buying it (brand new)

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[94ZZR1100]

It depends on the rider and the bike, a ZZR is a pretty easy bike to ride but it is also quite heavy which can get you in trouble at low speed. Even the 250s are kinda heavy when compared to CBR250, ninja 250 etc... and you would have learned a few things without realizing it.

I still have my 6L but I made the decision to upgrade when I felt I had the necessary skill and over 10000km later I know for sure that I would be lucky to be alive without all the experience gained on my little ninja and theres no way my R6 would have survived this long (or even the ride back from Auckland) without that previous experience, the biggest lesson I learned was actually due to crashing the little ninja about 3 months after buying it (brand new)

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That is very true it was HEAVY as hell for a 250cc sportsbike. Maybe that is why my 1100 feels light. :sweatdrop

I did the same with my 250cc about 10 low speed crashes. ZZR250cc don't make very good adventure tour bikes and hate 4wd tracks...

Even I didn't ride my 250cc for very long I rode arould whole NZ on it so I guess that is a bit more experience then someone riding for 5 years to work in Auckland alone.

[ducatilover]

It only goes as fast as you tell it to. I've ridden Hyabusas slow


Sent from a bubble gum factory

[94ZZR1100]

It only goes as fast as you tell it to. I've ridden Hyabusas slow


Sent from a bubble gum factory

I agree with this. I think weight is more important factor.

[tigertim20]

my thoughts on it are that its a total waste of time trying to explain to inexperienced riders why they should start out small. They simply won't 'Get it' until they figure it out themselves from a combination of experience and mistakes

I went for a ride with a friend of mine not long ago - he has a 600, and has been riding 600's for 5+ years, but he hadnt ridden a litre-bike.
I swapped bikes with him (GSXR1000) and we carried on heading down hill. He's an experienced rider and he still got a bit of a shock when he went to nip past a car, put a little bit of throttle on, and the bike stood up on the back wheel and went past the car - wasn't what he was expecting, nor was it intended. He commented later that to him, going from his 600 to the gsxr, was like going from his old vt250 to a 600.

You either get it or you dont. hopefully you get it before ignorance kills, or maims you.

[BMWST?]

He's an experienced rider and he still got a bit of a shock when he went to nip past a car, put a little bit of throttle on, and the bike stood up on the back wheel and went past the car


a little bit of throttle? yeah right

[tigertim20]

a little bit of throttle? yeah right
The point is that a little throttle on one bike and the same amount on another are not the same thing - which is where mistakes/accidents can happen.

[94ZZR1100]

The point is that a little throttle on one bike and the same amount on another are not the same thing - which is where mistakes/accidents can happen.

But like I said before this is more of riding someone else bike thing. I have to give my bike a lot of throttle at 7-10rpms range to make the front wheel come up and it's 1.1L.

Unless he was overtaking in second gear or something...

[tigertim20]

But like I said before this is more of riding someone else bike thing. I have to give my bike a lot of throttle at 7-10rpms range to make the front wheel come up and it's 1.1L.

Unless he was overtaking in second gear or something...

he probably was in 2nd gear, but we are talking about an 80km zone, and a bike that will do 140km/hr in first, but thats beside the point.

the question you asked was about newer riders riding powerful bikes - it doesn't matter who the bike belongs to, what matters is whether or not the rider has enough experience, on enough different bikes, across a variety of situations to know how to ride the thing safely. Accidents happen when a dog runs out at you as you round a corner at an intersection - do you have the experience to know the difference between a gentle input, at low speed that enables you to ride it out safely, or do you give it a little too much input and end up skating along on your arse?
These situations can rely on the instinct you have learned from experience - it's not just about whether you are sensible, and make good decisions when cruising along the open road at 100km and spotting potential hazards from 100 metres away, its about whether or not you have built up enough skills to know you can rely on instinct, rather than uncontrolled reaction when something happens suddenly.

thinking ahead and being sensible will reduce the number of dangerous situations you find yourself in, experience, skill and instinct will save you from the rest.

[discotex]

But like I said before this is more of riding someone else bike thing. I have to give my bike a lot of throttle at 7-10rpms range to make the front wheel come up and it's 1.1L.

Unless he was overtaking in second gear or something...

That's because your ZZR1100 =/= litrebike

Your whole premise is wrong. When people say "don't go from a 250 to a 1000, just get a 600" they don't mean a sport-tourer or cruiser or some other heavy bike. They're specifically talking about sport bikes.

To give you some perspective using stats from http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/

ZZR250 - 40hp/146kg dry = p/w 0.27
Your ZZR1100 - 147hp/233kg dry = p/w 0.63
My CBR600RR - 118hp/156kg dry = p/w 0.75
2008 Gixxer - 185hp/172kg dry = p/w 1.07

So yeah a litrebike is another class and not something noobs should be riding the second they get their 6F. I always intended to trade up but never got around to it. 600 is plenty fast on the road and track.

[ducatilover]

The point is that a little throttle on one bike and the same amount on another are not the same thing - which is where mistakes/accidents can happen. It's true, mine only lifts the front in 2nd if you're a knob opening it up over bumps and even then it's a bitch wheelie (safe so I don't flip?), it'll do 1st. But mine has silly enough gearing... 'thous are just fuggin spastic (read: ideal)


But like I said before this is more of riding someone else bike thing. I have to give my bike a lot of throttle at 7-10rpms range to make the front wheel come up and it's 1.1L.

Unless he was overtaking in second gear or something... A real liter bike will pull the wheel up in 2nd very easy.




ZZR250 - 40hp/146kg dry = p/w 0.27
Your ZZR1100 - 147hp/233kg dry = p/w 0.63
My CBR600RR - 118hp/156kg dry = p/w 0.75
2008 Gixxer - 185hp/172kg dry = p/w 1.07



This

[Katman]

A real liter bike will pull the wheel up in 2nd very easy.


But only with a concious effort.

Contrary to popular belief, litre bikes don't stand on their back wheel under normal acceleration.

[Mushu]

I did the same with my 250cc about 10 low speed crashes. ZZR250cc don't make very good adventure tour bikes and hate 4wd tracks...

I've done hundreds of kays on gravel roads on each of my road bikes without an off (I did it specifically as a learning experience - to see if I could handle it in the worst possible grip situation) without a single off, a zzr is far easier to handle in that situation than a 600 sport, perhaps you're pushing past your abilities, if you slow down you'll learn faster.

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[94ZZR1100]

I've done hundreds of kays on gravel roads on each of my road bikes without an off (I did it specifically as a learning experience - to see if I could handle it in the worst possible grip situation) without a single off, a zzr is far easier to handle in that situation than a 600 sport, perhaps you're pushing past your abilities, if you slow down you'll learn faster.

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They where really dumb mistakes. Some off the top of my head.

OK some we all fools sometimes so don't judge me to bad on this one...
1.) At a party around new years having a few drinks. Hey I can't ride someone give me a lift "Friend": Nahhnahh just take the farm track its a private road it's only 15mins to where your staying ( Staying on a farm behind his ).

On the way back see a rabbit.... Dumbed brain says REV make it run faster! Hit throttle, hit the rabbit fall off into ditch.... MORAL OF THE STORY: Don't drive drunk EVER even if it's a private road with no traffic!

2.) Front brakes on gravel DOHHHH!

[Katman]

This place gets more retarded by the day.

[PrincessBandit]

Most sensible people, who value their lives and the lives of those around them, will be able to judge from previous experience whether or not the jump up is ok or right for them. The more applicable experience you have then I say - your choice. What bothers me is people who advocate these things as being not-a-big-deal influencing less able or less experienced riders into thinking that they will be good with it.

I took insane1's new VFR1200 for a pootle in Cornwall Park on the weekend. Very nice. (Didn't get it out of 3rd gear, mind) And he has offered to let me take it for a longer play one day soon - however he did indicate that it gets a bit hyped over 6k so I'm thinking when I do take it I'll be particularly aware that it's NOT my relatively tame bandit.

If you can think through the change in specs and handling AND not be an idiot then all should be good. It's when you let the testosterone override your sensibility that warning bells should be clanging in alarm before straddling that saddle.

[PrincessBandit]

Quite frankly Post 20 puts you in the not-sensible bracket. Save yourself heaps of $ and those who love you heaps of likely heartache and stick to what you can handle. And THAT doesn't sound like much...

[Maha]

April fools finished at midday.

[PrincessBandit]

April fools finished at midday.

Ah, but who is the joke on? this delightful poster or those of us sucked into replying to him?

Off topic completely - Easter and April Fools on the same day: tell your children to hunt for eggs you didn't hide.

[Mushu]

They where really dumb mistakes. Some off the top of my head.

OK some we all fools sometimes so don't judge me to bad on this one...
1.) At a party around new years having a few drinks. Hey I can't ride someone give me a lift "Friend": Nahhnahh just take the farm track its a private road it's only 15mins to where your staying ( Staying on a farm behind his ).

On the way back see a rabbit.... Dumbed brain says REV make it run faster! Hit throttle, hit the rabbit fall off into ditch.... MORAL OF THE STORY: Don't drive drunk EVER even if it's a private road with no traffic!

2.) Front brakes on gravel DOHHHH!

lol, you look more and more like a troll with every post, maybe you should sell your bike and go back to the 50cc scooter, or the bus.

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[ducatilover]

But only with a concious effort.

Contrary to popular belief, litre bikes don't stand on their back wheel under normal acceleration. Yes, true in both respects. A thou will only stnad up if you feed it/be a dick


This place gets more retarded by the day.

I'm doing my bit to help, give me some fuckin' credit.


Sent from a box of Kingfisher

[sootie]

I am pretty much a newbie I only rode a 250cc ZZR for 1 year or so then I got a 1100cc ZZR and I really am starting to think it's a myth that you will kill yourself if you start on a high powered bike.

It's pretty much the same but harder on the handling but still if you don't ride like a mad man I don't see how it is suicide. The front wheel does come up by mistake sometimes but it's never caused me to crash or any grief as such you simply lay off the throttle.

What is your thoughts on this? I reckon an idiots an idiot and will kill themselves on a anything > 50cc anyway.

I don't think riding experience matters much for big bikes on long straight stretches of open roads. However, have you considered:
- riding on slippery &/or wet surfaces - recovery can be very hard to do
- how not to park
- manoeuvering around crowded car parks
- how to get a bike upright again
- common sense use of gut wrenching acceleration .... ?

I found I had a few things to learn as I went bigger.

[tigertim20]

A thou will only stnad up if you feed it/be a dick



Sent from a box of Kingfisher

Or if you have just got off a much lower powered bike, and didnt quite realize how much power you now have.

the same twist of the throttle on one bike might produce moderate acceleration, but a wheelie on another! - which was half my point!

[skippa1]

But only with a concious effort.

Contrary to popular belief, litre bikes don't stand on their back wheel under normal acceleration.

^^^^^^^what he said.........accidentally ending up with the front in the air is "accidentally on purpose" twisting the throttle pretty hard in a sudden movement.

[GrayWolf]

I am pretty much a newbie I only rode a 250cc ZZR for 1 year or so then I got a 1100cc ZZR and I really am starting to think it's a myth that you will kill yourself if you start on a high powered bike.

It's pretty much the same but harder on the handling but still if you don't ride like a mad man I don't see how it is suicide. The front wheel does come up by mistake sometimes but it's never caused me to crash or any grief as such you simply lay off the throttle.

What is your thoughts on this? I reckon an idiots an idiot and will kill themselves on a anything > 50cc anyway.

Yes of course it's a Myth, it's always a 'myth' till it happens... The very fact, "Quote front wheel does come up by mistake" Show's you have not mastered the bike properly, not acclimatised to it's performance.. oh BTW, I OWN a ZZR1100D3, so am VERY familiar with the performance.


What about going from a 250cc to 1000cc > I really think it depends on the type of bike. The ZZR models seem to handle much the same and they not a heavy bike even at the higher power range.

That is very true it was HEAVY as hell for a 250cc sportsbike. Maybe that is why my 1100 feels light. :sweatdrop

NOT a HEAVY BIKE?? at close to 260kg wet, they aint light, most modern thou's are 50-60 kilo's LIGHTER than a ZZR.


Even I didn't ride my 250cc for very long I rode arould whole NZ on it so I guess that is a bit more experience then someone riding for 5 years to work in Auckland alone.

You guessed WRONG, you could do 5000 km's a month for 3-4 months over the summer.... the guy who rides to work every day will have more 'experience'.. he's ridden in summer, autumn (greasy roads and leaves) spring and Winter... Untill you have ridden regularly in ALL weather/seasonal conditions you are NOT experienced.. and even then, it could take several years to learn to compensate for all types of conditions,,, good example was the 3 days of snow the other Winter in Wellington, first time in 60 years!


But like I said before this is more of riding someone else bike thing. I have to give my bike a lot of throttle at 7-10rpms range to make the front wheel come up and it's 1.1L. .

Again shows lack of experience,,,, ZZR's are 'continent blaster's'... they were designed as a high speed 'intercontinental ballistic missile'... They are KNOWN to be quite 'docile' below 6k rev's, and ridden gently are a pussycat. It's once used in anger above 6k, the true nature of the bike comes out, and I can assure you 20yrs old or not, my D3 is still a lot of bike for performance even by today's standards...
The 'difference' is the ZZR is a heavy slower turning bike (length, rake, trail) compared to a sprottie, the suspension, brakes are known to be soft and slow stopping.... hence why many ZZR1.1's ended up with braided lines and/or replacement brake caliper's... and front forks being 'worked on'.... However, saying that... compared to an FJ1200 which was THE 'Master Blaster' for continent shredding till the ZZR, it handles and stops far better. Oh and I have one of those (FJ) sitting in the garage too!
The reason the front doesnt come up 'easily' is due to the weight overall, length of the bike, and how the performance is delivered,,,, The FJ will completely outclass the ZZR for top gear low speed roll on power, as low down grunt is/was the FJ's forte.. once you hit 6k? Rocketship ZZR leaves and FJ for dead...... Considering that 6k in top on a ZZR is 150kph? the power in top is only really usable on 'Unrestricted roads' like Autobahns....

[Mushu]

If you lift the front wheel because you don't know what bike you're on how do you make it around corners without winding up on your ass (if you aren't rolling on the throttle through a corner you're doing it wrong), if I gave the R6 the same handful of throttle I give the ninja through corners it would change direction instantly, but I would keep going into a fence.

I looked up some if your other threads, and I'm sure you're either a troll or an idiot. Also if you need your girlfriends help to pick up your bike when dropped you shouldn't be riding it.

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[caspernz]

I looked up some if your other threads, and I'm sure you're a troll AND an idiot.


Fixed it for you :innocent:

[Banditbandit]

but still if you don't ride like a mad man I don't see how it is suicide.

Your answer is here ... too may people do ride like madmen - I have lost friends doing exactly that - getting a big bike and then opening the throttle wide ... crashing and burning ...

[Banditbandit]

This place gets more retarded by the day.

Now you're being repetative ...

[Erelyes]

Perhaps this is our licencing system at fault a bit.

'Stuck' on a LAMS bike for 2 years then it's all go, to whatever the hell you want. No stepping stone in many cases.

You could go from a bike like mine (19hp/132kg) straight onto a supersport with like 4x or more the power/weight ratio.

Ideally I think you'd be on your L for a year, then your R for a year. And you get access to a wider range of bikes on your R, whilst still within sane power/weights. So a ninja 650 or a Gladius would be OK but not an R6 / R1 yamma.

[tigertim20]

Perhaps this is our licencing system at fault a bit.

'Stuck' on a LAMS bike for 2 years then it's all go, to whatever the hell you want. No stepping stone in many cases.

You could go from a bike like mine (19hp/132kg) straight onto a supersport with like 4x or more the power/weight ratio.

Ideally I think you'd be on your L for a year, then your R for a year. And you get access to a wider range of bikes on your R, whilst still within sane power/weights. So a ninja 650 or a Gladius would be OK but not an R6 / R1 yamma.

the lams system is way better than what we had previously!!!

[Glowerss]

Perhaps this is our licencing system at fault a bit.

'Stuck' on a LAMS bike for 2 years then it's all go, to whatever the hell you want. No stepping stone in many cases.

You could go from a bike like mine (19hp/132kg) straight onto a supersport with like 4x or more the power/weight ratio.

Ideally I think you'd be on your L for a year, then your R for a year. And you get access to a wider range of bikes on your R, whilst still within sane power/weights. So a ninja 650 or a Gladius would be OK but not an R6 / R1 yamma.

At some stage you're going to have to stop relying on the government to hold your hand and protect you. Short of them wrapping people in cotton wool, people are stupid. Nothing is going to get in the way of stupid people being stupid.

If, after 2 years and a wide array of bikes being available to you under 150 kw/tone limit, you get your full, immediately buy an R1, and bin it (and possibly die), well that's entirely your fault. Probably do the world a favor if after 2 years you still haven't figured things out to be honest, but that's neither here nor there.

The new licensing system is about as good as you're going to get. Stops people from killing themselves while learning, but gives a wider range of more appropriate bikes.

On topic, the reason why you don't let beginners onto high powered bikes is because of 1 word. "Forgiving". Large capacity sports bikes in particular are not in any way forgiving. It's far far easier to get yourself into the shit on a litrebike then say, something like my hornet. My hornet will let you know you're being stupid, but won't throw you off for doing something bad.

Going around a wet corner on something like an R1 and giving it a bit too much gas, is far far more likely to see you in the ditch then a hornet or something LAMS bikes.

I'm not sure why this is even a question though, to be honest. Go find some youtube videos from the states and tell me you think letting anyone jump on any capacity bike is a good idea :shutup: The ones on mulhulland drive by the rnickeymouse guy are particularly good watching.

[argada]

I believe there is a difference between a "new" rider and someone that never sat on a bike prior to the basic handling test (possibly never used a clutch before, in any vehicle). I was in the second category and I truly believe during the first few weeks of riding - I would have crashed/dropped it had I been on anything more powerful/heavier than a ninja 250.

Memorable moments that I can remember:
- Stalled three times attempting to pull out of a slightly inclined drive way, overcompensated with the throttle on the fourth attempt and rocketed towards the curb on the opposite side of the road. Grabbed a handful worth of front brake - had to use every ounce of strength to keep the damn thing upright - front wheel alarming close to the curb.
- Encountered false neutral for the first time, confused, clicked it back into gear and dumped the clutch. Resulted in a massive wheelie in the middle of a busy intersection.

Doing anything of that on my current bike would be unthinkable.

But a "new" rider with the basics sorted - sure, once you have the "ability" keep it under xyz revs etc., you will probably be fine. It becomes more an issue with self control.

[awayatc]

I did the same with my 250cc about 10 low speed crashes.

10 crashes...?

And you managed to survive on bikes for how long?

Let's talk again in 5 years.

or not.....

[ducatilover]

I believe there is a difference between a "new" rider and someone that never sat on a bike prior to the basic handling test (possibly never used a clutch before, in any vehicle). I was in the second category and I truly believe during the first few weeks of riding - I would have crashed/dropped it had I been on anything more powerful/heavier than a ninja 250.

Memorable moments that I can remember:
- Stalled three times attempting to pull out of a slightly inclined drive way, overcompensated with the throttle on the fourth attempt and rocketed towards the curb on the opposite side of the road. Grabbed a handful worth of front brake - had to use every ounce of strength to keep the damn thing upright - front wheel alarming close to the curb.
- Encountered false neutral for the first time, confused, clicked it back into gear and dumped the clutch. Resulted in a massive wheelie in the middle of a busy intersection.

Doing anything of that on my current bike would be unthinkable.

But a "new" rider with the basics sorted - sure, once you have the "ability" keep it under xyz revs etc., you will probably be fine. It becomes more an issue with self control.

No offence to you matey, but this post outlines why our rider training/licencing in NZ is absolute shite.

[Erelyes]

At some stage you're going to have to stop relying on the government to hold your hand and protect you. Short of them wrapping people in cotton wool, people are stupid. Nothing is going to get in the way of stupid people being stupid.

If, after 2 years and a wide array of bikes being available to you under 150 kw/tone limit, you get your full, immediately buy an R1, and bin it (and possibly die), well that's entirely your fault. Probably do the world a favor if after 2 years you still haven't figured things out to be honest, but that's neither here nor there.

Yeah but I've seen a couple of comments along the lines of "learning to ride a big bike was such a drastic change that it's like learning to ride all over again".

Going from 150kw/tonne to 600kw/tonne would be a lot easier if you rode a 350-400kw/tonne bike inbetween, surely?

You do have a good point that at some stage (early!) the rider has to take responsibility themselves, though. Whether the government should intervene between LAMS and all-bets-off was just something I was suggesting.

I would argue that after a year of riding a LAMS bike, and passing the test to get a restricted, a rider will learn more from a mid-range bike e.g. Gladius, than by riding the LAMS bike for another year.


The new licensing system is about as good as you're going to get. Stops people from killing themselves while learning, but gives a wider range of more appropriate bikes.

The realist in me agrees with your first comment. The idealist in me disagrees. Also the current system doesn't stop learner fatalities... it reduces them. I certainly agree though that LAMS is a shit-ton better than the previous rule.


On topic, the reason why you don't let beginners onto high powered bikes is because of 1 word. "Forgiving". Large capacity sports bikes in particular are not in any way forgiving. It's far far easier to get yourself into the shit on a litrebike then say, something like my hornet. My hornet will let you know you're being stupid, but won't throw you off for doing something bad.

All the more reason for an intermediate step, surely? There is not just 'forgiving' and 'unforgiving'. There is a scale.


I'm not sure why this is even a question though, to be honest. Go find some youtube videos from the states and tell me you think letting anyone jump on any capacity bike is a good idea :shutup: The ones on mulhulland drive by the rnickeymouse guy are particularly good watching.

Will check out the vids :)

[Wayz]

Awesome topic, my riding experience started with dirt bikes, I was 14 and owned a 250, then at 16 i was straight onto a 500cc...me being new to road riding I started on a 250cc just to understand the differences between riding road and dirt....after a few months I had it sorted, had a few lessons from a couple experienced riders and away I went. Also gave me the opportunity to ride bigger bikes, from a 1200cc harley to a 1000cc Firestorm, and man what a difference it was. I'm all for newbies to have a crack at bigger bikes, if its going to make you a better rider then it's worth doing.

[Subike]

You guessed WRONG, you could do 5000 km's a month for 3-4 months over the summer.... the guy who rides to work every day will have more 'experience'.. he's ridden in summer, autumn (greasy roads and leaves) spring and Winter... Untill you have ridden regularly in ALL weather/seasonal conditions you are NOT experienced.. and even then, it could take several years to learn to compensate for all types of conditions,,, good example was the 3 days of snow the other Winter in Wellington, first time in 60 years!
..

This statement sums up all of the other shit in regards to riding bigger bikes. 20000k in the past 14mths on a 2fidy and Im still learning.
I own and ride 2 x XS1100 Yamaha, have had a 1200 HD sporty, 1 x 380 suzi 2 smoka, amongst a few others.I have been riding since I was 14. I am Still learning,I will always be learning,
The road changes every season, conditions change by the hour, traffic changes by the mood of the day, yes the mood, sunny days bring out boy racers, rainy days bring out impatient commuters with fogged up windows..Nothing stays the same every day.
I dont care how many miles you have ridden, you will always learn something . And your idea that going to a 1 liter bike for daily riding, over a small nimble 2fidy or what ever ,is ...well...easy as...try riding that 1 liter in a frost, with snow, a southerly, and 300 cold cage drivers all fighting to get to work faster than the guy next to them, Then you will want the little low powered nimble bike that can get you out of trouble faster than the 1 liter.

[Road kill]

Used to be a member of this forum that went by the name FIGJAM and he rode a ZZR250.
Rode it very well actually,but then the silly boy went an bought a ZZR1100.

Pity he never bought insurance to go with it,,,,if ya' know what I mean.

Mind you he's a rusty nut so you'll probably never hear from him again anyway:laugh:.

[Monkfish]

Its funny how we almost all agree that learners should not be jumping straight onto a litrebike. - And most Learners would never contemplate a jump from a 250cc to a Litre anyhow.
However it is interesting that, we are content to let that "mate" who used to ride 20 years ago, wants to get back into the scene, jump straight onto a big bike.

If you actually look at the crash statistics its the "mature" riders that are the ones dying.
Why can't we apply the same logic and stop our mates from buying that "midlife crisis" bike? or the old guy jumping straight onto a 1200cc+ Cruiser. :no:

[Tarded]

Its funny how we almost all agree that learners should not be jumping straight onto a litrebike. - And most Learners would never contemplate a jump from a 250cc to a Litre anyhow.
However it is interesting that, we are content to let that "mate" who used to ride 20 years ago, wants to get back into the scene, jump straight onto a big bike.

If you actually look at the crash statistics its the "mature" riders that are the ones dying.
Why can't we apply the same logic and stop our mates from buying that "midlife crisis" bike? or the old guy jumping straight onto a 1200cc+ Cruiser. :no:


Cause there is huge coin in fixing late model Harleys and sports bikes that the old dudes can afford to buy, and soon bin for the exact forgotten skills you mention.

It would be hard to prove someone had not ridden for a period of time to implement a 'relearn' period.
No bike regd to someone doesnt mean the guy hasnt ridden every trail in NZ for the last 20 years and thus has great bike skills, but not road skills maybe.

Not to mention the ego damage to having a learner period enforced to an 'experienced' rider.

I had been off the road for a good few years, raced for a few in between and am now relearning my road skills.
As a yoof I didnt own a car for many years and commuted year round in Dorkland but that doesnt mean a lot after a good while between rides.

[chrisso]

Here we have LAMS . As in learner approved motorcycle. No more stupid blanket 250cc limit for new riders. I think the LAMS are like 25 kw/tonne.
When I lived in NZ I went from an RD400 to a GSX1100 and I survived. Im a bit out of touch with whats happening there but this place has become the Nanny State.

[sketch]

its 150kw a tonne...........

[chrisso]

Doh! Your right. 25kw/ tonne means a 250 kg bike could only have about 6 kw. Actually even that would be too much for some people I know....

[Drew]

It only goes as fast as you tell it to. I've ridden Hyabusas slow



You ride everything slow ya poof!

But only with a concious effort.

Contrary to popular belief, litre bikes don't stand on their back wheel under normal acceleration.That's a very broad, and misleading statement.

My thou would hoist the front wheel in second, with no more effort than rolling the throttle. Didn't need to move my weight, or tug the bars.

But "normal acceleration" can be taken many ways I guess.

One would need to be fuckin retarded though, to not expect it to happen if they had the tap wide open when the needle hit about 6/7000rpm.

[Katman]

You ride everything slow ya poof!
That's a very broad, and misleading statement.

My thou would hoist the front wheel in second, with no more effort than rolling the throttle. Didn't need to move my weight, or tug the bars.

But "normal acceleration" can be taken many ways I guess.

One would need to be fuckin retarded though, to not expect it to happen if they had the tap wide open when the needle hit about 6/7000rpm.

I get to ride a lot of litre bikes Drew.

Under 'normal acceleration' they don't lift the front wheel.

If the front wheel does lift you've accelerated harder than you needed to.

[Mushu]

Here we have LAMS . As in learner approved motorcycle. No more stupid blanket 250cc limit for new riders. I think the LAMS are like 25 kw/tonne.
When I lived in NZ I went from an RD400 to a GSX1100 and I survived. Im a bit out of touch with whats happening there but this place has become the Nanny State.

We have LAMS here too, they bought it in last year, exactly the same rules as in Australia.

[EJK]

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[Drew]

I get to ride a lot of litre bikes Drew.

Under 'normal acceleration' they don't lift the front wheel.

If the front wheel does lift you've accelerated harder than you needed to.Yeah, I got that.

I counter though. "Normal acceleration" for me when I owned the thou, was WFO and pointing skyward.

[ducatilover]

You ride everything slow ya poof!


:bye:



I should be putting a yo mumma joke in here. But I went to uni and have too much class.

[unstuck]

I got no class.:motu:

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