Dealers and non LAMS bikes?

[Glowerss]

Question to all of you in the know.

Are dealerships allowed to sell bikes as "LAMS bikes" or learner approved bikes when they aren't on the list?

Private sellers on trademe I would imagine can say whatever they want, but what's the ruling on proper dealerships?

Coleman's suzuki in particular is pretty bad at advertising bikes as being learner approved LAMS bikes when they've either modified them to make them non compliant (exhausts for example) or are selling plain non compliant bikes ( They have an SV400 which isn't on the list yet, and a CB400 superfour which won't ever be LAMS compliant).

Doesn't affect me at all, but it does bother me when bike shops can't even get something simple like LAMS correct, and I'd hate to see somebody new to motorcycles buy a bike they thought was OK and find out later that they're not legal.

[Eddieb]

You're not the only one to have noticed. I put a thread up about Coleman's advertising of modified DR650's so they are no longer LAMS compliant a while ago. They seem to do it a lot.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/153901-Colemans-Suzuki-misleading-DR650-LAMS-advertising-be-warned

[Glowerss]

You're not the only one to have noticed. I put a thread up about Coleman's advertising of modified DR650's so they are no longer LAMS compliant a while ago. They seem to do it a lot.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/153901-Colemans-Suzuki-misleading-DR650-LAMS-advertising-be-warned

Yeah, I sent Coleman's an email today pointing out they've got a few bikes listed as LAMS approved when they definitely aren't. I was rather polite, and pointed out which bikes and why they weren't LAMS approved.

I got a shitty snarky ass email back asking me if I'd buy them if they were LAMS approved. :bash:

No change on the trademe listings.

[FJRider]

Private sellers on trademe I would imagine can say whatever they want, but what's the ruling on proper dealerships?



That is incorrect.

The item on sale MUST be as described/claimed. (Trademe policy/rules state this) If items are not ... you can take them to court.

As for the advertised DR650 being "LAM's approved". I would ask for another discount as it would only be allowed standard exhaust systems. And I would probably get it too ...

[carburator]

its not the only industry that it happens in, unfortunatly there is no accountability at the moment..
however if you would like to point out to managment, the consumer act and false avertising and the
fines attached to it they may change their tune.. more likey they will blame it on the minion...

it does paint a poor picture of honesty for the industry...

[Grashopper]

and a CB400 superfour which won't ever be LAMS compliant.



:gob:Wait, didn't you just say in your other thread the superfour might just make it? Or did I get that wrong?

[Glowerss]

:gob:Wait, didn't you just say in your other thread the superfour might just make it? Or did I get that wrong?

If somebody submits a form for the liquid cooled CB400 Super Fours and points out that if they factor in fluids then it would probably make it, then yes it could *POTENTIALLY* be added to the list. When I checked earlier it was some 151 kw/tonne dry. With 11kg for fluids its 144kw/tonne.

I'm not sure if that's become standard policy for the NZTA to now factor in wet weight, or if they did it as a one off for the SV400 as it was only like, 3kg too light to make it under 150kw/tonne.

However, unless Coleman's has some insider knowledge on things, they're not LAMS approved at the moment. The SV400s won't become LAMS approved until March at the earliest.

Selling either as a learner LAMS approved bike is slightly dishonest at best as I could walk out with one tomorrow and be pulled over same day and slapped with "riding outside license conditions".

Not really ideal if you're the person purchasing.:violin:

[Gremlin]

Easy enough to take it to the Commerce Commission. They are stating something that isn't true (and if they know it, then it's actually more of a lie), and customers could likely buy the good on the misleading information...

I think once someone like the Commission starts contacting them, they may change their tune...

[Ender EnZed]

Question to all of you in the know.

Are dealerships allowed to sell bikes as "LAMS bikes" or learner approved bikes when they aren't on the list?


At a guess: No.


Easy enough to take it to the Commerce Commission. They are stating something that isn't true (and if they know it, then it's actually more of a lie), and customers could likely buy the good on the misleading information...

I think once someone like the Commission starts contacting them, they may change their tune...

+1

Coleman's has quite clearly fucked up here and needs to get their shit in order.



The CB400 should make the LAMS list like the SV400 but it hasn't yet and it won't happen by chance.

[Jantar]

I believe that the modified DR650s would still be LAMS approved.

To remain LAMS approved then no changes may be made with the intent of increasing the power to weight ratio. The FMF exhaust would do that, but the increased fuel load in the IMS tank would restore the PtW ratio to where it was.

[Gremlin]

I believe that the modified DR650s would still be LAMS approved.

To remain LAMS approved then no changes may be made with the intent of increasing the power to weight ratio. The FMF exhaust would do that, but the increased fuel load in the IMS tank would restore the PtW ratio to where it was.
I don't know if the IMS gets taken into account? I didn't think there was teh allowance where you could increase here and decrease there, get a balance sort of thing? Do they use a set amount of fuel or a full tank?

[Glowerss]

I believe that the modified DR650s would still be LAMS approved.

To remain LAMS approved then no changes may be made with the intent of increasing the power to weight ratio. The FMF exhaust would do that, but the increased fuel load in the IMS tank would restore the PtW ratio to where it was.


I don't know if the IMS gets taken into account? I didn't think there was teh allowance where you could increase here and decrease there, get a balance sort of thing? Do they use a set amount of fuel or a full tank?

With regards to the DR650s, *ANY* modifications designed to increase power to weight ratio (read: any modifcation) makes the bike no longer LAMS compliant.

It's the only way to make the law be enforceable. A cop can pull you over, see that you have an aftermarket exhaust, and write the ticket. He's not going to sit there and go "well the aftermarket exhausted added 2 BHP and removed 5 kilos but the bash plate added 10 kilos so let me whip out my calculator and see if the bike remains within 150kw!".

For the plod who doesn't know anything about bikes, it's a very straightforward matter. Is it a LAMS bike? Does it have an aftermarket exhaust? If yes to both, write ticket!

The DR650s are neither really here nor there, however. The two bikes I spotted as being "LAMS" bikes are the SV400 which currently aren't on the list at all, and the CB400 SuperFour. The CB400 Superfour I thought may have been a mistake on their part (There is a CB400SF on the list, but it's a much much earlier air cooled version) and so I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. Hence the email.

The blow-off reply I recieved (and the fact they're still listed as LAMS bikes) makes me feel like taking up gremlins idea and having a chat to the commence commission.

[Asher]

I can't remember if the wording is "designed" or "intended" but either way you could probably argue that your new exhaust is not intended to raise hp or lower weight but sound and look good.

[Gremlin]

I can't remember if the wording is "designed" or "intended" but either way you could probably argue that your new exhaust is not intended to raise hp or lower weight but sound and look good.
Doesn't matter whether or not you wanted it (more power, less weight etc), the fact is, it DOES increase the power to weight ratio...

[Jantar]

I can't remember if the wording is "designed" or "intended" but either way you could probably argue that your new exhaust is not intended to raise hp or lower weight but sound and look good.

It doesn't actually use the words "intended" or "designed". What the rule says is from the NZTA FAQ:


What if a motorcycle is on the list and has been modified in a way that has increased
its power-to-weight ratio?
Any motorcycle that has been modified to increase its power-to-weight ratio is no longer
LAMS-complaint and must not be ridden on a learner or restricted motorcycle licence.

From this I would takle it that if modification is carried out that doesn't increase the PtW ratio then such modifications would be OK. This is also supported by the next part.


Doesn't matter whether or not you wanted it (more power, less weight etc), the fact is, it DOES increase the power to weight ratio...

Changing the actual power to weight ratio by a small amount doesn't necessarily remove it from being LAMS compliant as long as aftermarket parts are replaced "like for like". The NZTA website uses changing the suspension as an example:


Will the addition of aftermarket suspension affect the LAMS compliance of a
motorcycle?
If a motorcycle has a direct suspension replacement, it would not affect the power-to-weight
ratio of the motorcycle or the LAMS compliance.

[ducatilover]

Here's what I do,
Email seller showing them LAMS list etc and explaining it is not learner legal
If no reply, or no change in advert, I report the listing with the same info and Trademe removes it

It gets up my nose when knob pulling pricks will keep the LAMS legal claim on their website/advert when they clearly know/have been shown the information that states it is not LAMS legal. It's misleading and low money grabbing tactics and I expect much more of a large dealer like Colemans. So, I'm off to find the listings.
It's almost as bad a homeopathic remedies...


Sent from a place of poor decorum

[Glowerss]

Here's what I do,
Email seller showing them LAMS list etc and explaining it is not learner legal
If no reply, or no change in advert, I report the listing with the same info and Trademe removes it

It gets up my nose when knob pulling pricks will keep the LAMS legal claim on their website/advert when they clearly know/have been shown the information that states it is not LAMS legal. It's misleading and low money grabbing tactics and I expect much more of a large dealer like Colemans. So, I'm off to find the listings.
It's almost as bad a homeopathic remedies...


Sent from a place of poor decorum

+1 to you sir. Been too busy at work today to chase it up.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=576701656
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=576701570

Are the two they've got up currently in question. They've certainly been made aware of the fact.

[blackdog]

An interesting aside then, anyone with a Hyo or 250 Ninja with an aftermarket exhaust designed to increase performance no longer has a LAMS legal bike technically?

[clonak]

An interesting aside then, anyone with a Hyo or 250 Ninja with an aftermarket exhaust designed to increase performance no longer has a LAMS legal bike technically?

Anything <250cc is automaticly learner legal, with some exceptions. So you can modify the hell out of it and it will still be legal from my understanding. The no modification rule only applies to bikes on the lams list, being bikes over 250cc but under 660cc.

[Glowerss]

An interesting aside then, anyone with a Hyo or 250 Ninja with an aftermarket exhaust designed to increase performance no longer has a LAMS legal bike technically?

The non modification clause only applies to 251ccs and up. So the hyobags and ninjas with their stupid aftermarket exhausts are OK!

This guy is legal: http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-569651319.htm

This guy is not: http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-569301082.htm

Basically, they just want people not to de-restrict bikes that have been choked down to meet LAMS laws (like that hyobag) and not to push the lams bikes over the 150kw limit by sticking zorsts n things on em.

Moral of the story: If you buy a LAMS bike leave it the fuck alone :devil2:

[ducatilover]

Anything <250cc is automaticly learner legal, with some exceptions. So you can modify the hell out of it and it will still be legal from my understanding. The no modification rule only applies to bikes on the lams list, being bikes over 250cc but under 660cc.

Soooooooo my GN600 is LAMS legal? Winning!
It sits at 130ish dry (it's currently just shy of 140 wet) and 44hp. Seems legit!

[Asher]

How do custom bikes fit into LAMs? Could someone build a frame, slap in a powerful 600cc engine and lie about the numbers and get it lams approved?

[clonak]

Soooooooo my GN600 is LAMS legal? Winning!
It sits at 130ish dry (it's currently just shy of 140 wet) and 44hp. Seems legit!

Have you bored a GN250 out to 600cc ?
Or put larger barrel on...

[ducatilover]

How do custom bikes fit into LAMs? Could someone build a frame, slap in a powerful 600cc engine and lie about the numbers and get it lams approved?
I'll give it a shot?

Have you bored a GN250 out to 600cc ?
Or put larger barrel on...

DR600 motor. You can't make a GN250 lump that big, biggest you could get one is around 437cc (ish) by using a modified DR350 street crank and an 84mm bore (which is a stretch on a GN barrel with only 2mm sleeve left, but do-able and might last one minute max) :lol: from memory anyway, I worked it all out a while ago, I'm messed up or something :D



Sent from my unusual garage

[clonak]

I'll give it a shot?


DR600 motor. You can't make a GN250 lump that big, biggest you could get one is around 437cc (ish) by using a modified DR350 street crank and an 84mm bore (which is a stretch on a GN barrel with only 2mm sleeve left, but do-able and might last one minute max) :lol: from memory anyway, I worked it all out a while ago, I'm messed up or something :D



Sent from my unusual garage

ah ok, I was wondering. Didnt think you could bore it out that far, but I know there was a 300cc kit floating about for them awhile back, thought there might be a 600cc kit. But with the DR motor, you would need to certify it right ?
Also, how easy/hard was it to fit ? I suppose this counts as threat hijacking doesnt it... lol.

[Glowerss]

How do custom bikes fit into LAMs? Could someone build a frame, slap in a powerful 600cc engine and lie about the numbers and get it lams approved?

custom bikes dont fit. In order for the bike to get LAMS approved, they ask the manufcaturer for the specs directly. If your bike isn't mass produced no specs no go! Custom bikes need not apply ect. And sticking a 600 motor in a 400 frame for example definitely falls under "modifying to increase power to weight ratio :lol:

So Geoff wouldn't qualify, sorry to say DL! :lol:

[ducatilover]

Righto, in regards to the CB400 Bol D'or they have, AFAIK it will fit inside the LAMS p/weight so will apply to have it on the list.
Colemans have replied saying it's legal, even though it's not on the list. Which means it's currently not legal, as I had said to them.

It does come in at around 138kw/tonne, but the specs are saying 198kg dry and other sources say 168kg dry. So I will have to contact Honda on that one.




ah ok, I was wondering. Didnt think you could bore it out that far, but I know there was a 300cc kit floating about for them awhile back, thought there might be a 600cc kit. But with the DR motor, you would need to certify it right ?
Also, how easy/hard was it to fit ? I suppose this counts as threat hijacking doesnt it... lol.

I've got a 300 kit for one in my garage somewhere. Easy enough to fit in a GN frame.
I suppose it'll need a cert, yeah :niceone:

[ducatilover]

custom bikes dont fit. In order for the bike to get LAMS approved, they ask the manufcaturer for the specs directly. If your bike isn't mass produced no specs no go! Custom bikes need not apply ect. And sticking a 600 motor in a 400 frame for example definitely falls under "modifying to increase power to weight ratio :lol:

So Geoff wouldn't qualify, sorry to say DL! :lol:

YOu got it all wrong bro :P
I have a 600 in a 400 frame, the Kawasaki
and a 600 in a 250 frame, Le Geoff :2thumbsup



And ANY modified bike is not LAMS legal as far as I read, regardless of 250cc or not

[Glowerss]

Righto, in regards to the CB400 Bol D'or they have, AFAIK it will fit inside the LAMS p/weight so will apply to have it on the list.
Colemans have replied saying it's legal, even though it's not on the list. Which means it's currently not legal, as I had said to them.

It does come in at around 138kw/tonne, but the specs are saying 198kg dry and other sources say 168kg dry. So I will have to contact Honda on that one.





I've got a 300 kit for one in my garage somewhere. Easy enough to fit in a GN frame.
I suppose it'll need a cert, yeah :niceone:

At least you got a reply you can work with! I got a shitty reply telling me essentially fuck off

It doesn't matter if they think the CB400 SF fits within the restrictions or not, if it isn't on the list it isn't legal, and they can't sell it as such.

Which years is it showing 198kg dry? Sofar as I know, in Australia, the only years the CB400 SFs are LAMS approved are the 2008 and later fuel injected models that honda made specifically to fit into the lams market, as the earlier versions were just outside.

I'd be willing to bet any site claiming 198 kg dry is quoting for the 08 and later models. The 2007 and earlier models are 168kg dry and so 152ish KW/tonne. Not legal.

Same basically applies to the SV. Albeit, the SV400 *IS* being added to the LAMS list, but it still isn't legal until late March they said when the list gets updated.

Either way, good effort mate :first:

[ducatilover]

At least you got a reply you can work with! I got a shitty reply telling me essentially fuck off

It doesn't matter if they think the CB400 SF fits within the restrictions or not, if it isn't on the list it isn't legal, and they can't sell it as such.

Which years is it showing 198kg dry? Sofar as I know, in Australia, the only years the CB400 SFs are LAMS approved are the 2008 and later fuel injected models that honda made specifically to fit into the lams market, as the earlier versions were just outside.

I'd be willing to bet any site claiming 198 kg dry is quoting for the 08 and later models. The 2007 and earlier models are 168kg dry and so 152ish KW/tonne. Not legal.

Same basically applies to the SV. Albeit, the SV400 *IS* being added to the LAMS list, but it still isn't legal until late March they said when the list gets updated.

Either way, good effort mate :first: A bunch of sites are saying even pre-08s are
I believe they were 168 dry though. I'm trying to get the correct specs, the '08 on is the NC42 and it's a wee bit different to the '05-07 NC39
Owners manual may help me :niceone:
I mentioned the SV in my email too.
I do understand to an extent that the team there is annoyed, but the fact of the matter is the bikes are not LAMS approved and it's wrong to advertise them as such.
That's like me advertising my ZX6/ZZR as a ZZR400, when the only untouched part is pretty much the number plate and saying that both my bikes are LAMS legal...



Sent from a feverish sweat

[ducatilover]

I'm uploading the Honda owner's manual for the CB400 and will post the link here shortly, but on page 134 it states a dry weight of 169kg
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByQ3NFEJzSZRdXRvTzRhOWU1OUU/edit?usp=sharing NC39 manual


Sent from a place with google FTW

[Glowerss]

I'm uploading the Honda owner's manual for the CB400 and will post the link here shortly, but on page 134 it states a dry weight of 169kg
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByQ3NFEJzSZRdXRvTzRhOWU1OUU/edit?usp=sharing NC39 manual


Sent from a place with google FTW

Shit man, I applaud your dedication to the cause of keeping people honest :clap: Glad I'm not the only one bothered by dodgy business practices :wait:

I'll certainly be shooting them a second email tomorrow if the adverts haven't been changed by tomorrow. Barring that, I wonder if there's somebody in a slightly higher position then the sales staff you can get ahold of.

I'd like to believe that somewhere there's a manager/owner kind of person who wouldn't be enthused with his/her store fraudulently selling shit. Spose we'll find out :cool:

[carburator]

How do custom bikes fit into LAMs? Could someone build a frame, slap in a powerful 600cc engine and lie about the numbers and get it lams approved?

short answer NO...

[ducatilover]

Well, I doubt the Honda owner's manual is wrong, so I'll forward a copy of it to Coleman's tomorrow (although I expect they already have access to these resources)
The Japanese only manual mentions 190kg for the Bol D'or, so I have to somehow figure out the symbol for dry weight in Japanese :(
Who knows somebody who can manage that?

Hmm so page 122 of this manual http://www.honda.co.jp/manual-motor/cb400sf/pdf/2006-cb400superfour-all.pdf
says: 車両重量 190kg which according to google translate = weight of vehicle.
Perhaps somebody else can help out with some Japanese translation :lol:



Sent from a place where I studied German...

[FJRider]

Dry weight in Japanese is ...

乾燥重量

[ducatilover]

Dry weight in Japanese is ...

乾燥重量

I translated as many different variations as I could, before I realised I can simply copy/paste off the manual in to translate :lol: and it just says vehicle weight.
The English manual I linked through my google.docs says 169kg dry though. So one could reasonably expect that the (wait for this mouthful) Honda NC39 CB400 Bol D'or Hyper Spec 3 VTEC weighs in at 169kg dry (actually, 174 as Jap manual has a 5kg difference between the SF and Bol Duh) and 195kg wet

Yeah?


Sent from somewhere waiting for Honda to email back

[FJRider]

I translated as many different variations as I could, before I realised I can simply copy/paste off the manual in to translate :lol: and it just says vehicle weight.
The English manual I linked through my google.docs says 169kg dry though. So one could reasonably expect that the (wait for this mouthful) Honda NC39 CB400 Bol D'or Hyper Spec 3 VTEC weighs in at 169kg dry (actually, 174 as Jap manual has a 5kg difference between the SF and Bol Duh) and 195kg wet

Yeah?


Sent from somewhere waiting for Honda to email back

There is more likely a bigger difference in rider weights that bike model weights, only in LAM's (etc) that official weights are of any real importance.

Are "Claimed HP" figures really that accurate to be used in "Official" business such as the LAM's list eligibility status .. ???

Sent from a restricted area using code

[ducatilover]

There is more likely a bigger difference in rider weights that bike model weights, only in LAM's (etc) that official weights are of any real importance.

Are "Claimed HP" figures really that accurate to be used in "Official" business such as the LAM's list eligibility status .. ???

Sent from a restricted area using code

These are the Honda specs from their publications themselves, so I imagine they're a teenie bit important?
This model has a claimed 53hp/39kw. Although my earlier one had a claimed 53hp and some have dyno'd near that without correcting from crank HP :killingme silly Honda.
I suspect NZTA will use these manufacturer's claims for weight and power eh?
Until Honda themselves tell me otherwise, I will take what I've found so far and go with 169 dry and 39kw
Which results in 150.5kw/tonne if my maff is good

Sent from a place where I'm too tired

[FJRider]

These are the Honda specs from their publications themselves, so I imagine they're a teenie bit important?
This model has a claimed 53hp/39kw. Although my earlier one had a claimed 53hp and some have dyno'd near that without correcting from crank HP :killingme silly Honda.
I suspect NZTA will use these manufacturer's claims for weight and power eh?
Until Honda themselves tell me otherwise, I will take what I've found so far and go with 169 dry and 39kw
Which results in 150.5kw/tonne if my maff is good

Sent from a place where I'm too tired

The big question ... is Dry or Wet weight used as "Official standard policy" in LAM's reg's ... ???

[ducatilover]

The big question ... is Dry or Wet weight used as "Official standard policy" in LAM's reg's ... ???

Page 3 of 4 http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/docs/lams-faqs.pdf
Dry weight/tare weight

That be our answer!

[Glowerss]

So, this is the email I sent.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/approved-motorcycles.html

As you can see from the NZTA website, the SV400 does not show up at all. And if you calculate it's power to weight ratio ( 39kw/ 167+90) you'll find it has a power to weight ratio of 151.7 kw/tonne. It is not even LAMS compliant.

The CB400 Superfour Bol'Dor is also not on the LAMS list. As explained above, there are CB400 Superfours on the LAMS list, but they are the 408cc Air cooled models from the 70s *NOT* the 399cc liquid cooled models that were introduced in the 90s. Furthermore, according to the Honda CB400 SF owners manual it has a weight of 168kg and making 39kw. This puts it at 151.1 kw/tonne. Also outside of the LAMS restrictions as well as not being on the list.

All of the above, however, is entirely academic. Even if they could be added onto the LAMS list, neither bike is currently listed as a LAMS bike. You cannot legally sell either bike as being learner approved, because quite frankly, they are not. Any learner or restricted license holder on either bike could be issued with a breach of license conditions if pulled over, and no NZTA instructor would allow them to take a license test on either bike.

Continuing to sell either bike as "learner approved" when you know full well they are not is extremely dishonest, extremely unethical, and extremely ILLEGAL. If the sales staff at Coleman's is not competent enough to sort this out, I'll have no problems taking this to either somebody higher up at Coleman's who wouldn't be excited to see his/her sales staff illegally listing bikes.

Failing that, the Commerce Commission would certainly be interested in a case of falsely advertising bikes, and selling bikes that are not fit for purpose (a learner bike that cannot be legally ridden as a learner).

The ball is entirely in your court.

This is the reply I got: They update the list once a month, don’t worry about it. Our business has over 40 years experience

What a joke :(:wait:

[ducatilover]

I've been told by Colemans that the figures for both bikes have been wrong, which is extremely unfortunate :nono:
I will write to Honda JP and tell them their specs are fucked.

Phwoooaaar Glowerss, that's a long winded and eloquent reply they sent you!!!!

FWIW the SV400N is even lighter at 159kg!

Sent from a place where people really just want to sell bikes.

[Glowerss]

I've been told by Colemans that the figures for both bikes have been wrong, which is extremely unfortunate :nono:
I will write to Honda JP and tell them their specs are fucked.

Phwoooaaar Glowerss, that's a long winded and eloquent reply they sent you!!!!

FWIW the SV400N is even lighter at 159kg!

Sent from a place where people really just want to sell bikes.

So, it would appear when it comes to Colemans, their reply is "fuck you, we're right, you're wrong, and we're going to continue to sell bikes illegally" :clap:

Fucking stand up operation they have going on.

Safe to say I won't be buying anything from them in the future :wait:

[ducatilover]

I don't deal with people with that attitude. Just because somebody is a sales does not make them a fucking genius. That's really the wrong attitude to have.
There's too many with the idea like that, but I suppose I'd be a bit miffed if I had imported a bike from Japan that was not on the LAMS list and wanted to sell it as a LAMS bike



Sent from a hate for wankers.

[Glowerss]

I don't deal with people with that attitude. Just because somebody is a sales does not make them a fucking genius. That's really the wrong attitude to have.
There's too many with the idea like that, but I suppose I'd be a bit miffed if I had imported a bike from Japan that was not on the LAMS list and wanted to sell it as a LAMS bike



Sent from a hate for wankers.

:lol: They sent me this 5 hours later.

I have personally been involved in approving LAMS bikes with the NZTA since it LAMS started .
I know them formulas and I know what’s involved, and I am in the process of getting several more bikes approved.
At the end of the day all of our bikes fall within the formulas that we claim are LAMS, and the NZTA does always get it exactly right on several models
as I have had to correct and amend a few of the bikes they have already approved or not.
Did you notice that one of the most popular Learner bikes on the road the Hyosung GT250 isn’t on the LAMS list?????

I had the SV400 approved last week as it had previously been rejected because someone had got the formulas incorrect. There are few errors on the list, it doesn’t keep me up at night
and I’m sure it doesn’t keep them up either.

The LAMS is an on-going process and for me the guy that does them is just a phone call away . At the end of the day if a bike is within a maximum power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne and is under 660cc’s it is going to be approved.
Mike T
Colemans Suzuki


I guess they're confident selling shit that isn't LAMS approved because they feel they can force the NZTA guy to approve things even if they're borderline. It certainly makes clear to me why the SV400 is the special exception to taking into account wet weight when it was disallowed earlier.

Kinda dodgy still to list them without them being LAMS approved yet and doubly dodgy that they feel they (a dealership) can dictate which bikes become LAMS bikes, but whatever I suppose. It only becomes an issue again if 3 months down the line the liquid cooled super fours still aren't approved.

[ducatilover]

Mint, learners need fast bikes :rolleyes:
I'm trying to get hold of official 'zuki documents for the SV specs.
Of course the Hyo isn't on the list, 250cc bikes are not listed because they're automatically eligible, it says so on the blimmin page


Sent from a place where rules matter.

[Glowerss]

Mint, learners need fast bikes :rolleyes:
I'm trying to get hold of official 'zuki documents for the SV specs.
Of course the Hyo isn't on the list, 250cc bikes are not listed because they're automatically eligible, it says so on the blimmin page


Sent from a place where rules matter.

Bah I wouldn't bother with it.

Hell Brian,
I have gotten the SV 400 (yess!!!!) approved and have conformation from Graeme.
So that’s why we are selling it as approved.
The BOL-DOR is in the process but the math is well with-in the limit so should be no problem.


It will be such a cool bike to own, do you want me to shoot ya an email after I take it for a ride?

Thanks,

Mike T
Colemans Suzuki


Iunno who Mike T is, but he seems like a right twat.

Sent from a place where customer relations and customer service matter.:wait:

[FJRider]

Did you notice that one of the most popular Learner bikes on the road the Hyosung GT250 isn’t on the LAMS list?????



Actually ... All motorcycles with engine capacities of 250cc and under, except for those on the LAMS-prohibited list ... are automatically approved.

The Hyosung GT250 is NOT on the prohibited list.

[Glowerss]

Actually ... All motorcycles with engine capacities of 250cc and under, except for those on the LAMS-prohibited list ... are automatically approved.

The Hyosung GT250 is NOT on the prohibited list.

The coleman's guy was asking me why the Hyobag 250 wasn't on the list. I told him the same thing you said basically :p

DIdn't seem to bother them much. He tended to gloss over anything that he didn't agree with. :lol:

[Maha]

Mike T
Colemans Suzuki


Iunno who Mike T is, but he seems like a right twat.



Mike Taliaferro is the guy I bought my bike off/from..My thoughts on the man are, not great. Even Anne was astounded at the emails and how the the sale went, being a cash buyer and all...but I got the bike I wanted.
When she bought her bike from there, Daryl was most excellent to deal with (don't think he is there any more) and so was mechanic guy when it came to sorting a replacement gear shift rod on the spot...from another bike in the shop.
The difference in both deals were poles apart.

Sent from Subway

[Gremlin]

They seem to miss one major thing...

They say it's approved, and it isn't. Yes, it might be in the future, but it's currently not...

[ducatilover]

I've been talking to Mike also, he's not being a knob to me
I've applied to have both bikes added anyway, just because they're cool. And then people won't have to buy those fucking shithouse Ninja 250 turds.


Sent from acid reflux

[ducatilover]

They seem to miss one major thing...

They say it's approved, and it isn't. Yes, it might be in the future, but it's currently not...

Oh, but apparently this doesn't matter.
Somebody with a learners please go buy one, get cuaght, then dispute it?


Sent from a blanket of Japanese symbols using a tiny tree

[Glowerss]

They seem to miss one major thing...

They say it's approved, and it isn't. Yes, it might be in the future, but it's currently not...

Apparently, the batphone that the Coleman's sales reps have to old mr NZTA chap allow them to be assured that something will be LAMS approved.

They dont seem to give a shit that somebody can still get pegged for riding outside of license conditions between now and May when the list will be allegedly updated. As far as they're concerned, so long as they feel a bike is or is going to become approved at some point in the future, that gives them the ability to market it as "learner approved" now. Nevermind the fact that if you rode it off the lot to your restricted/full test, they'd turn you away.

Ethical business practices and good customer service seem to take a back seat to profit for them at least. At least I know where not to go next time I'm in the market for a biker :sleep:

[clonak]

Oh, but apparently this doesn't matter.
Somebody with a learners please go buy one, get cuaght, then dispute it?


Sent from a blanket of Japanese symbols using a tiny tree

Ok, wanna lend me the money ? Im sure I can get my self pulled up pretty quick. The cop station is only around the corner.

This is really sounding retarded. Why dont sales people relise, _everyone_ you talk to, can, and will have an influence on future sales for them. Ok, sometimes its not worth putting up with shit from someone, if you can clearly tell they are not actually interesting in purchasing. But when you have been clearly shown you are 'wrong', atleast have the decency to admit it, and rectify the proplem. The least they could do, is state in the advert "These are not currently LAMs approved but will be added in the next revision." if they beleive so strongly they can dictate what bikes will be added.

[ducatilover]

Ok, wanna lend me the money ? Im sure I can get my self pulled up pretty quick. The cop station is only around the corner.



Yeah bro, do a skid


Sent from a place of harmonic disturbance using aliens