2-stroke bike advice (Enduro)

[oldguy]

Ok its out I'm a closet 2stroke fan, their I said it.:lol:

Need some advice, I am thinking of upgrading from my WR250F but thinking of going 2stroke, I have ridden a few 450F's CR450X. WR450F KLX450R and a KX450F just for fun but not on the list.
Anyway I like the power of the other bikes, but not the weight, also the seat height bit too tall for me.
what can you tell me about these, KTM 250 exc.... KTM 300 exc looking at second hand and what to look for.
or any other 2t endro.

or should I just stick with my WR it has not let me down 7000 offroad K's on the clock and is still going strong.

[Reckless]

Ok its out I'm a closet 2stroke fan, their I said it.:lol:

Anyway I like the power of the other bikes, but not the weight, also the seat height bit too tall for me.
what can you tell me about these, KTM 250 exc.... KTM 300 exc looking at second hand and what to look for.
or any other 2t endro.

All the Ktm's seem to have quite a high seat height 900 or so I think??
The 250 and 300 share the larger chassis. The 125 and 200 share the smaller chassis.
The 300 is defiantly more enduro.
The 200 has good torque, has adjustable power valve (so you can make it deliver power how you like) and the latest has electric start and still is the same weight as my 08 model.
I found the 200 lightest with best lug ability for trees and enduro and you can still wang like a 125 it at Ardmore, Harrisville or maze races.
About $400 for a recon if you do it yourself
In saying the above no two stroke will deliver smooth tractable climbing power like your four stroke will. Until someone sorts out direct injection that is???

Take one for a ride you'll love it or hate it :)

[nzspokes]

Im not qualified really to comment as so new at this. But I loves my KDX. Not bad torque but epic power once she on the pipe. Well it feels great to me. And it can haul my fat ass up hills better than my xr200.

[george formby]

I heart 2t's too.
Was talking about it yesterday, jumping off a 2t onto an older 4t feels like your on a bike with a flat front tire.
Glad your enjoying the KDX spokes, thought you might.
Among the current 2t crop Gas Gas seems to get consistent thumbs up.

[ktm84mxc]

I'll admit it I'm a 2smoke man started with a 79 PE175n, tried a 80 KLX250a1 handled nice but so sloooooow.
Any of the 2 smoke 250\300's will be a revelation to you just choose your colour and enjoy the ride, get the latest model your budget will allow say 010 or latter .

[Dent]

You should certainly consider a GasGas 250 or 300. I'm on my second 300.
The 300 has more torque down low, meaning you can be fairly lazy on gear shifts and still make it up the hill etc.

The 2012 had a higher seat height than previous. I think the 2013 has reduced that a little.

We have excellent sales/support from D.A.S. in chch http://dasmoto.co.nz/ , not sure how well bikes get setup from dealers elsewhere. Out of the crate the jetting needs a needle change, and he electric leg (option) needs a little tweaking on some bikes.
D.A.S. does the occasional demo day where you can ride a bike.

[Pornstar]

the xc 250 is the perfect offroad 2t and the 200 is a totall hoot, its a 200 that thinks its a 300, but id say a good deal gasser would be just as good.

P.S the Xc 150 would be way cool, if your into giant slaying that is.

[pouakai]

We've got a EXC450(4t) and a EXC300(2t) in the family and in all honesty I am staggered by the torque available for the 2t (nearly as much as the 450!!) but it's lighter and more nimble than the 450 - it's an absolute hoot !
I'd buy one in a heartbeat ! (The 450 does some service as an Adventure bike though so it's place in the garage is secure!)
P

[george formby]

but it's lighter and more nimble than the 450 - it's an absolute hoot !


I think that sums it up nicely.

[oldguy]

In saying the above no two stroke will deliver smooth tractable climbing power like your four stroke will. Until someone sorts out direct injection that is???

Take one for a ride you'll love it or hate it :)

Thats what I wondered.

I hear the 300 is more race focused, but i see a lot on trail rides, apart from the obvious would it be better than me going back to a 250 MX 4t for what I would be using it for.

thanks for all your advice guys give me something to think about.

[snarldom]

I've just bought a KTM 300EXC (2008). I've done a few rides out at woodhill on it and am heading out to Ardmore today for a squirt for a first attempt on an MX track with it. Being an ex CRF 450 rider (a shit rider, but a rider none the less), I will try and give an opinion of sorts tomorrow.

[Dent]

Jetting on the 300 2 stroke makes a big difference to how 'exciting' the hit of the power band is.
KTM's seem to be jetted to be fairly exciting when delivered.

A 300 jetted to provide more linear power will be considerable more predictable and easier to control. Yes this will mean its running a little richer.
A single taper needle in a gasgas 300 makes them fairly placid, but with stump pulling torque far lower in the rev range than the modern 450 4 stroke.

[oldskool]

Thats what I wondered.

I hear the 300 is more race focused, but i see a lot on trail rides, apart from the obvious would it be better than me going back to a 250 MX 4t for what I would be using it for.

thanks for all your advice guys give me something to think about.

Rider Comfort.

If you remember John, I rode a GG300 for a couple of years. Hated the thing. I was glad to see it go. It was a soul-less machine.
Yes the motor had plenty of low grunt but it all came on using less than 25% of the throttle. After that it squirted and the back wheel lost traction. Had to short shift everywhere and only lug it up the hills. Typical big bore 2T
The famous Marzocchi Ohlins combination was a myth, the handling was crap. Thinking I was doing the right thing I rushed out to suspension tech to get it sorted. He didn't want to touch the thing. Said if I took off the forks and shocks he'd service them but he wouldn't set the bike up, he said the GG EC300 are a crap design to work on with everything in the way and boltheads all a different size. Anyway I was expecting a chalk and cheese difference after his revalving but was very disappointed. Cost me $800 for that experience. In hindsite why did I give him the job if he wasn't willing to be responsible for it. Needless to say, I wouldn't use him again. Anyway that's my personal experience with GG and it wasn't a good one. I almost quit riding because I wasn't enjoying it that much. So I went and bought a Suzuki and the sun shone bright.

I'm extremely happy with my new ride. It handles like a dream. I'm willing to give most obstacles a go now. It's about rider comfort at the end of the day. If you are happy and confident on your bike it doesn't matter what colour it is. I ride harder faster and with more confidence now and it happened overnight. I could almost say the GG held back my riding style.

My advice, if you want to go down the bigbore 2T path, don't look at a GG, simply because you don't get industry wide support for the brand in Aucks. You're on your own with it...oh except for remote online help when you are looking for a part.

[noobi]

Having only owned enduro 2 strokes since moving on from a crf150, but ridden everything in between the crf150 and a Husaberg 300. I feel somewhat qualified to comment.

So a light bike with smooth power?
Which is pretty much an enduro 2 stroke, or a detuned mx bike right?

So theres a few options,
KTM do a whole range of 2 strokes, 125/150/200/250/300.
GasGas do too, 125/200/250/300
Husqvarna, 125/250/300
Husaberg(blue KTM) 125/250/300
Then theres the ones ive never or rarely have seen, TM, Beta, Fantic

Theres also de tuned Jap 2 strokes. They all more or less need similar mods to make them more 'friendly'.
Basically the YZ250 is the only one that will be easy to find, they also have a huge amount of aftermarket mods available to make them more 'woods' worthy, as it were. However, if you bought one as a stock mx bike, you would want at the least a flywheel weight and some suspension work. At the most, engine mods, flywheel weight, pipe and silencer, reeds and jetting mods, possibly 18" rear wheel, barkbusters, radiator braces, skid plate, revalved and resprung suspension, transmission mods, auto clutch and possibly other things.
Now you could do none or all of this, but it will still at its heart be a fire breathing monster ~50hp mx bike.
Thats not to say it wont work superbly, but, its a huge amount of money and effort to put into a bike to make it like something you could already buy.

Where as the euro 2 strokes already have, heavy flywheels, tamer engine set up, plusher suspension, sensible transmission ratios etc.
You mentioned you were after a lower seat height, KTMs are tall, very tall. You can lower them, but unless you have a newer one with a linkage its not easy, and needs to be done internally by a suspension tuner.
GasGas' have the lowest seat height of all the euro bikes I listed, with the exception maybe being the Beta, but they dont really exist here in NZ yet.
Husqvarnas are as tall, if not taller than KTMs.
Husabergs are KTMs in blue clothing.

Ive now owned and maintained 2 gasgas', 2 ktms and a husaberg. I look after my dads bikes too.

I can honestly say that the gasgas' havent required any maintenance that wouldn't be common practice for any other brand.
As oldskool pointed out, they do have a couple of 'quirks', which are much more obvious in the older models, I owned 2 07's, a 125 and now a 200.
I would be cautious of 06 or older gasgas'.
The aftermarket parts thing can be a hassle, although, thinking right now, there isnt much in consumable parts I cant get aftermarket through any dealer.
The fasteners thing isnt that big of an issue if you have a socket set, some allen keys and a few screw drivers. Oh, and some patience.

The KTMs are much more user friendly, everything is fairly easy to get to. I recently starting riding our 09 250exc much more, its a very nice bike to ride, but it is really really tall for me. The suspension is very nice for farm type riding, but its not as predictable as on the gasgas on technical stuff.



Everyone has different experiences with any given brand, and depending on the type of person they may never get over it.
I once owned a Honda, and it was shit, therefore all Hondas are shit and no one should ever buy one. Sounds silly when you say it like that.

[IIIRII]

What 2t have you ridden ?
I know someone here who rode a trick wr250 and now rides a KTM 300 and says he would never go back.
You can have a squirt on noobs (my) KTM 250 some time if you are at a ride we are at, I have modified it and it has pretty much no power band, pulls like a 4t from idle so don't get sucked into thinking they come on like a switch.
People who say that kind of thing either don't know or have never tried tuning to suit how they want it to ride.
Once you get over no engine braking and the crank vibration through your feet, its all good.
Like noob said the biggest downside to ktm's is there height, which isn't that much of an issue until you stop .......

[EXCDirt]

Have had big 4t 450 and a Ktm300 (2008)
Then onto the 2010 GG Ec300 and never looked back!
Most enjoyable bike I have ridden. Easy to ride in tight tech stuff but still powerfull enough to scare you top end.
Never going to go back to 4t but will wait until direct 2t injection is sorted before my next bike.
Otherwise I would maybe just spend $$$ on suspension.

[F5 Dave]

Oh dear sounds like you have had a rough ride of it.


Rider Comfort.

If you remember John, I rode a GG300 for a couple of years. Hated the thing. I was glad to see it go. It was a soul-less machine.
Yes the motor had plenty of low grunt but it all came on using less than 25% of the throttle. After that it squirted and the back wheel lost traction. Had to short shift everywhere and only lug it up the hills. Typical big bore 2T
. . ..

No, typical badly set up 2 stroke. Std they jet them badly, I don't know why, maybe to keep them safe when they export them to countries with bad fuel & 10/w40 for premix. Decent $15 needle (heaps of info on GG site) & my preference of a flywheel weight & they are smooth & powerful. I found the GG250 agressive, I had the GG200 before & loved it, but the 300 just had more everywhere. in the wet hit the rain button & the traction is great.

Fuck I love mine.



. . .The famous Marzocchi Ohlins combination was a myth, the handling was crap. Thinking I was doing the right thing I rushed out to suspension tech to get it sorted. He didn't want to touch the thing. Said if I took off the forks and shocks he'd service them but he wouldn't set the bike up, he said the GG EC300 are a crap design to work on with everything in the way and boltheads all a different size. Anyway I was expecting a chalk and cheese difference after his revalving but was very disappointed. Cost me $800 for that experience. In hindsite why did I give him the job if he wasn't willing to be responsible for it. Needless to say, I wouldn't use him again.
. . .

Linton at DAS is great on these. Sounds like your chap didn't know what he was doing. They are a little harsh for NZ tree roots, so a soften of HS comoression does wonders.


I could almost say the GG held back my riding style. . ..

It has helped mine. the 200 was agreat bike & so far better than the KDX I had & far easier to live with when you're tired than a big 4 stroke, but so much more exciting than a 4 stroke, shit they make you want to fall asleep, or then on the 450s try & kill you once you wind them up.


. . My advice, if you want to go down the bigbore 2T path, don't look at a GG, simply because you don't get industry wide support for the brand in Aucks. You're on your own with it...oh except for remote online help when you are looking for a part.

Not too relevent these days if your local shop is pants. I can get anything out of DAS or online & many service parts are common to CR250. Great GG forum website for advice.

[IIIRII]

Some Noob "Parking" my KTM
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/IIIRII/media/GOPR0017MP4Still002.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/IIIRII/GOPR0017MP4Still002.jpg" border="0" alt="noob photo GOPR0017MP4Still002.jpg"/></a>

[IIIRII]

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/IIIRII/media/6MP4Still014.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/IIIRII/6MP4Still014.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 6MP4Still014.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/IIIRII/media/5MP4Still0012.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/IIIRII/5MP4Still0012.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 5MP4Still0012.jpg"/></a>

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[oldskool]

Oh dear sounds like you have had a rough ride of it.



No, typical badly set up 2 stroke. Std they jet them badly, I don't know why, maybe to keep them safe when they export them to countries with bad fuel & 10/w40 for premix. Decent $15 needle (heaps of info on GG site) & my preference of a flywheel weight & they are smooth & powerful. I found the GG250 agressive, I had the GG200 before & loved it, but the 300 just had more everywhere. in the wet hit the rain button & the traction is great.

Fuck I love mine.




Linton at DAS is great on these. Sounds like your chap didn't know what he was doing. They are a little harsh for NZ tree roots, so a soften of HS comoression does wonders.



It has helped mine. the 200 was agreat bike & so far better than the KDX I had & far easier to live with when you're tired than a big 4 stroke, but so much more exciting than a 4 stroke, shit they make you want to fall asleep, or then on the 450s try & kill you once you wind them up.



Not too relevent these days if your local shop is pants. I can get anything out of DAS or online & many service parts are common to CR250. Great GG forum website for advice.

Well I'm glad you like yours. :niceone:

The previous owner of my old GG did all sorts of tweaks to it. Stuff like putting a 10mm spacer on the PV chamber, reducing the thickness of the base gasket, after market reeds, longer spacer between carb and intake, rejetted etc, all with the endeavour to try and tame the thing. Yes it did have low down useable grunt all right...to a certain point then all would let loose. And that was after about 25% of the throttle rotation...a friend who has experience in these matters suggested an adjustable cam throttle control which most probably would have helped.

But the main issue I feel was the inability to transfer all that power to the ground for the rear wheel to hook up when you needed it to. I put it down to the suspension setup and a possible geometry issue. Hence running off to Suspension Tech. About the same time I heard another GG owner had an issue and sent his forks/shock down to ChCh to get them done there instead. He was happy with his result.

My point which every reply seems to be missing is the lack of industry support up here in Auckland. I once went to a Dirtbike shop for parts and asked them about mechanical work for it...no interest what so ever. Said although they are listed as a GG stockist they actually weren't. There is a lot of negativity about the Brand from a lot of the industry here. I am happier to stick to a brand with a lot of industry support. Others of course may have a differing opinion, which they are entitled to...barbs and all. :msn-wink:

[F5 Dave]

...no interest what so ever. Said although they are listed as a GG stockist they actually weren't. . .
That was probably the clue, that shop might have dropped thier association after a stoush with Triumph NZ (who are a bit useless) & now held resentment.

I rarely have to go into bike shops for dirtbike parts, actually my local GG dealer is in wgtn & I'm in the hutt, but I've never bothered to get parts from them. most everything is avail at my local bike shop as an accessory, or off TM, or MX parts.co, or I just phone DAS in Chch. heck if I got super keen Mainjet in Auss sell some cool stuff. & I got my flywheel weight from GoFasters in US with a few clicks of the button.

[oldguy]

Rider Comfort.

If you remember John, I rode a GG300 for a couple of years. Hated the thing. I was glad to see it go. It was a soul-less machine.
Yes the motor had plenty of low grunt but it all came on using less than 25% of the throttle. After that it squirted and the back wheel lost traction. Had to short shift everywhere and only lug it up the hills. Typical big bore 2T
I wondered what your thoughts where on your GG, glad you like the RMZ if you remember I also had one, but some one else liked it too asshole's, and stole it.
Don't get me wrong I love the WR it has never let me down not once in the time Ive owned it, after riding it so long it seams rather tame in its power delivery was toying with the idea of throwing a set of YZ cam's in. but then thought why not go the 2T 250/300 way.


What 2t have you ridden ?
I know someone here who rode a trick wr250 and now rides a KTM 300 and says he would never go back.
You can have a squirt on noobs (my) KTM 250 some time if you are at a ride we are at, I have modified it and it has pretty much no power band, pulls like a 4t from idle so don't get sucked into thinking they come on like a switch.
People who say that kind of thing either don't know or have never tried tuning to suit how they want it to ride.
Once you get over no engine braking and the crank vibration through your feet, its all good.
Like noob said the biggest downside to ktm's is there height, which isn't that much of an issue until you stop .......


I have ridden a few 2t's but MX bikes, RM and YZ 250's one with flywheel weight fitted. not a problem, but not a enduro 2T.
Age and physical fitness are not on my side.
As with height I can not get both feet on the ground on my WR as you said isn't that much of an issue until you stop.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-cwImtQw3WA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldskool]

I wondered what your thoughts where on your GG, glad you like the RMZ if you remember I also had one, but some one else liked it too asshole's, and stole it.
Don't get me wrong I love the WR it has never let me down not once in the time Ive owned it, after riding it so long it seams rather tame in its power delivery was toying with the idea of throwing a set of YZ cam's in. but then thought why not go the 2T 250/300 way.


Yeah I remember admiring your RMZ when I came by to look at your old KDX175 a few years back now.
MR MX had a tidy 2011 on the floor at a reasonable price not long ago. Would they do a trade in on your WRF? :)

My daughter loved her WRF too, it never let her down. It was all she needed, well for a year or so until she wanted a few more herbs. Her WRF had a shaved seat, yamalink lowered, and a low profile rear tyre so she could touch the ground. The motor was stock except for the grey wire mod and a YZF muffler. It hummed around the sandpit well enough, had a very tame powerband unless you screamed it. She loved the e-start. The trouble was, she didn't like venturing into the tricky blue or red tracks because it was a wee bit too heavy for her to pick up. She's tried a number of 2T's over the years but they don't do it for her.

So when I bought myself an RMZ, after I sold the GG, naturally she wanted to try it out. She immediately fell in love with it, the seat
height isn't that much higher than her lowered WRF. It just does everything better and she was hitting the blue and red tracks the
very same day. Even with the benefit of e-start, the WRF went straight onto Trade Me. It was yesterdays bike.

If you haven't tried Fuel Injection on a dirtbike yet, give it a go. The linear power is amazing. Although I haven't tried mapping yet, you can remap the ECU yourself or download maps from pro riders, and you update it with plug and play simplicity. You can map your own fuel and ignition settings at the track on the day with a laptop. Throttle % = RPM. It's awesome.

Here's a Suzuki example. Other brands must be similar.
http://www.cylplate.com/Bike-Tech-Suzuki-MX-Tuner



RMZ at the sandpit just a couple of weeks ago
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[takitimu]

I went sxf250 and love it in the bush, next bike upgrade I'll get a 18" wheel for weekends. if I was really keen on a 2/, I'd wait for the new husky, if its direct injection it'll be a pearler, even if higher than the ktm seat wise.
Rumors out there that Yamaha might have something up their sleeve to.
My big issue with the Rmz/kxf/yzf/crf is no electric start.
The 200ktm (2013) seems to go good.
Regarding gg, it's a niche brand and that has its issues, heck ktm is niche enough let alone husaberg ( :laugh: ), ktm's seem to take a pounding better than gg to.

[F5 Dave]

Heck they're more mainstream than any other brand in our group, bout 1/2doz with no real issues. not sure why people think they are like owning a Ducati in the 80s, cause they're not.

200 ktms are fun to ride, only rode an older one though. that said the guy I swapped a ride with jumped off my GG200 & raved about the (admittedly DAS tweaked) suspension.

[oldguy]

Yeah I remember admiring your RMZ when I came by to look at your old KDX175 a few years back now.
MR MX had a tidy 2011 on the floor at a reasonable price not long ago. Would they do a trade in on your WRF? :)

My daughter loved her WRF too, it never let her down. It was all she needed, well for a year or so until she wanted a few more herbs. Her WRF had a shaved seat, yamalink lowered, and a low profile rear tyre so she could touch the ground. The motor was stock except for the grey wire mod and a YZF muffler. It hummed around the sandpit well enough, had a very tame powerband unless you screamed it. She loved the e-start. The trouble was, she didn't like venturing into the tricky blue or red tracks because it was a wee bit too heavy for her to pick up. She's tried a number of 2T's over the years but they don't do it for her.

So when I bought myself an RMZ, after I sold the GG, naturally she wanted to try it out. She immediately fell in love with it, the seat
height isn't that much higher than her lowered WRF. It just does everything better and she was hitting the blue and red tracks the
very same day. Even with the benefit of e-start, the WRF went straight onto Trade Me. It was yesterdays bike.

If you haven't tried Fuel Injection on a dirtbike yet, give it a go. The linear power is amazing. Although I haven't tried mapping yet, you can remap the ECU yourself or download maps from pro riders, and you update it with plug and play simplicity. You can map your own fuel and ignition settings at the track on the day with a laptop. Throttle % = RPM. It's awesome.



Just watch that video, mate that girl of yours is flying along, doing those blue track no problem. is it fitted with a rekluse clutch?

the trail ride vid where her and a another girl riding get passed by some bloke who ends up missing the little bridge and ends up in the drain is so funny.

[oldskool]

Just watch that video, mate that girl of yours is flying along, doing those blue track no problem. is it fitted with a rekluse clutch?

the trail ride vid where her and a another girl riding get passed by some bloke who ends up missing the little bridge and ends up in the drain is so funny.

Yes it makes it very trail friendly.

[WStain]

If you haven't tried Fuel Injection on a dirtbike yet, give it a go. The linear power is amazing. Although I haven't tried mapping yet, you can remap the ECU yourself or download maps from pro riders, and you update it with plug and play simplicity. You can map your own fuel and ignition settings at the track on the day with a laptop.

Haha, yeah the modern 450's are awesome, you'll realise how linear they are after you've picked yourself up , dusted yourself off and thought about it for a while.

Seriously, get out there and ride as many brands as you can, then YOU will have a better idea of where you want to go. This thread is full of soooooo much BS it's not funny.
Personally - I drank the orange coolade and I ain't going back, it tasted bad.
But I'm not going to give you any other advice than the above, it really does come down to what suits you as a rider and every brand has its +zz and -zz .
I hope you find that perfect match :-)