Baroness Thatcher dies overnight

[Robert Taylor]

A very very sad day, may Margaret rest in peace

[rastus]

Maggie Thatcher passed away in her sleep. May she rest in peace. So Robert who are you going to idolise now. "Don Key"?

[Robert Taylor]

Maggie Thatcher passed away in her sleep. May she rest in peace. So Robert who are you going to idolise now. "Don Key"?

Indeed I am! How about Boris Johnson?

[James Deuce]

Indeed I am! How about Boris Johnson?


Didn't Boris call Baroness Thatcher "Mummy" on occasion?

[Paul in NZ]

Well one things for sure she left her mark on life - a pretty big one to boot.... Not sure if I shared her views on a bunch of things but like I said - she left her mark and thats more than most manage.

[ellipsis]

...i hope they stick an oak peg through her heart before they seal the box...

[Hitcher]

Maggie is the mother of modern Britain. If not for her that country would still be living in some trade union-led ice age, isolated from Europe and the rest of the civilised world -- a sort of North Korea across the water from France.

[merv]

Indeed I am! How about Boris Johnson?

Yeah well he's from up Ohlins way isn't he?

[jonbuoy]

More balls than most modern male politicians too. I think she probably nagged Gorbachev and Reagan into Nuclear Disarmament talks.

[SMOKEU]

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1365449844/051/8526051.jpg

Heil!

[george formby]

Maggie is the mother of modern Britain. If not for her that country would still be living in some trade union-led ice age, isolated from Europe and the rest of the civilised world -- a sort of North Korea across the water from France.

I grew up through the turmoil of the Miners strike & the Falklands war. It wasn't pretty. She stopped my milk ration at school.
Got to say, as the decades have rolled on she had the balls to take the long view & most of those hardest hit at the time ended up a lot better off.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
If your interested, have a fossick online for a documentary about the Falklands war & how she brought Ronald Reagan into heel. And Alexander Haigs take on the title "Iron Lady". He compared a meeting with her to being inside ye old torture device, the iron lady, spikes & all.
They don't make em like they used to.

[BoristheBiter]

I grew up through the turmoil of the Miners strike & the Falklands war. It wasn't pretty. She stopped my milk ration at school.
Got to say, as the decades have rolled on she had the balls to take the long view & most of those hardest hit at the time ended up a lot better off.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
If your interested, have a fossick online for a documentary about the Falklands war & how she brought Ronald Reagan into heel. And Alexander Haigs take on the title "Iron Lady". He compared a meeting with her to being inside ye old torture device, the iron lady, spikes & all.
They don't make em like they used to.

Most of the folk we have over from the UK can't stand her and don't have a nice word to say but like most they only see how it effected them right there at the time.

Like you said she saw the long term view and had the guts to see it through.
Can't say that for many politician's.

[george formby]

Most of the folk we have over from the UK can't stand her and don't have a nice word to say but like most they only see how it effected them right there at the time.

Like you said she saw the long term view and had the guts to see it through.
Can't say that for many politician's.

Yup, i'm from oop north & a lot of what happened, broken families, hard ship etc is still fresh in peoples minds. The fact a lot of them have time shares in Spain & are driving new cars does not get commented on.

[BoristheBiter]

Yup, i'm from oop north & a lot of what happened, broken families, hard ship etc is still fresh in peoples minds. The fact a lot of them have time shares in Spain & are driving new cars does not get commented on.

Yep Geordie by birth most of my extended family hate her, guess that's why we moved to NZ.

Makes for a good discussion, a bit like the on KB.:lol:

[HenryDorsetCase]

8EJDuchIBkQ

Stand down Margaret

[Big Dave]

Heard on you tube last night:

'I'd screw that like Thatcher would fuck a Northern town' - Jimmy Carr.

[Swoop]

An Argentinian pope and no Maggie.

I bet the Falkland Islanders' are nervous now.



She certainly changed Britain.

[Brian d marge]

She was good at her craft , followed the wrong school of thought , like most things some good point and some bad ,

certainly opened up the UK to what is is now ( Fked , try 1400 pound p/m for a bedsit ,,eer studio in west London )

I for one would like to see more like her , rather than the smiley sly donkey

Stephen

[MSTRS]

Point, Stephen...at least you knew she was putting the knife in. She didn't hold your attention whilst sending an underling round behind to stab you in the back.

[Brian d marge]

Point, Stephen...at least you knew she was putting the knife in. She didn't hold your attention whilst sending an underling round behind to stab you in the back.

"final reading of the bill under ugency at 4am in the morning" kind of stab in the back

Stephen

[SPman]

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/04/margaret-thatcher/

of course...it brings this back to mind...

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pU17zYt6nBQ" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

[Robert Taylor]

Its conveniently forgotten of course what sort of a country Margaret Thatcher inherited off her predeccessors in 1979. James Callaghan (gentleman that he was ) was head of an inept Government that had pretty much bankrupted the country. In fairness Ted Heath wasnt so impressive either, nor the manipulator who smoked a pipe and wore slippers. Productivity was abysmal due in part to poor work ethic and the unions were pretty much running the country, a passport to disaster in any economy. Something radical had to be done and Margaret was pretty much the best man for the job. As a bonus the Falklands war restored British military pride and international prestige which had been somewhat dented since the Americans effectively sold out the British in the 1956 Suez crisis.
Its very sad that much of the gains made were squandered by that idiot Gordon Brown, if anything the problems facing the current Conservative led Government are worse than what was the case in 1979.
Maggie fully deserves the send off planned, with full military honours
Now if only we could have someone exactly like her in NZ who would immediately abolish treaty claims, huge CEO bonuses and all the wasteful nonsense that is occuring, whomever is ''on watch''.

[PrincessBandit]

Indeed I am! How about Boris Johnson?

God, for a moment I thought you said Boob Johnson...


Well one things for sure she left her mark on life - a pretty big one to boot.... Not sure if I shared her views on a bunch of things but like I said - she left her mark and thats more than most manage.

That she did! She's a woman that will be remembered long in the history of Britain (I liken her a tad to QE1) and the world. Certainly she was a force to be reckoned with and had bigger cajones than a lot a male world leaders. (Iron-balls?)

[caseye]

God, for a moment I thought you said Boob Johnson...



That she did! She's a woman that will be remembered long in the history of Britain (I liken her a tad to QE1) and the world. Certainly she was a force to be reckoned with and had bigger cajones than a lot a male world leaders. (Iron-balls?)

Oh Yeah, great big Iron Clangers SHE had, loved Maggie for getting on and doing it, best thing that ever happened to the UK.

[Hinny]

“RIP Margaret Thatcher — her final wish was to be cremated but we’ve got no coal left.” (Patrick Kielty)

Ding Dong! The Witch is Dead. (Marc Almond)

[Hinny]

the Falklands war restored British military pride and international prestige'.

Conveniently forgetting the facts.

[James Deuce]

They should put the State Funeral out to commercial tender and accept the lowest bid. Imagine the irony if the Argentine military win the tender.

So, here we are then. Baroness Thatcher dead and an Argentinian Pope. If I were a Falkland Islander, I'd be painting pale blue stripes on my sheep.

[Brian d marge]

They should put the State Funeral out to commercial tender and accept the lowest bid. Imagine the irony if the Argentine military win the tender.

So, here we are then. Baroness Thatcher dead and an Argentinian Pope. If I were a Falkland Islander, I'd be painting pale blue stripes on my sheep.

we should give her a proper send off

281161

Stephen

[MSTRS]

Now if only we could have someone exactly like her in NZ who would immediately abolish treaty claims, huge CEO bonuses and all the wasteful nonsense that is occuring, whomever is ''on watch''.

Love her or not, there is a lot to be said for this. Plus Go Republic - with a SINGLE Bill of Rights...

[BoristheBiter]

Conveniently forgetting the facts.

Why not, it's good enough for most.

[Robert Taylor]

They should put the State Funeral out to commercial tender and accept the lowest bid. Imagine the irony if the Argentine military win the tender.

So, here we are then. Baroness Thatcher dead and an Argentinian Pope. If I were a Falkland Islander, I'd be painting pale blue stripes on my sheep.

Most of the funeral cost is being paid for by Thatchers estate, not from the public purse.

[Robert Taylor]

Conveniently forgetting the facts.

Great Britain 1, Argentina nil.

[Robert Taylor]

Love her or not, there is a lot to be said for this. Plus Go Republic - with a SINGLE Bill of Rights...

No, not a Republic, the union flag should remain part of our heritage.

[James Deuce]

Most of the funeral cost is being paid for by Thatchers estate, not from the public purse.
Breathe, it's a joke, I'm not THAT ignorant.

[Hinny]

Your simplistic assessment of the disaster that was the Falklands War makes me think your name could be substituted for Maggie in this song.
Britain 1-0. I'm sure all the parents of the young men that were slaughtered took great solace in that scorecard.


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EwnkFlVRCZc?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

[BoristheBiter]

Your simplistic assessment of the disaster that was the Falklands War makes me think your name could be substituted for Maggie in this song.
Britain 1-0. I'm sure all the parents of the young men that were slaughtered took great solace in that scorecard.



So what would say if we were invaded and asked England for help and they didn't come?

[Robert Taylor]

Your simplistic assessment of the disaster that was the Falklands War makes me think your name could be substituted for Maggie in this song.
Britain 1-0. I'm sure all the parents of the young men that were slaughtered took great solace in that scorecard.


You may also wish to reflect on the young lives that were lost to save Japanese aggressors reaching our shores in the middle of the 20th century, so that you are both here and can enjoy freedom of speech. Clashing with tyranny was justified then as it also was in 1982

[Mom]

God, for a moment I thought you said Boob Johnson... (Iron-balls?)

Iron Balls eh? I called him a cock and copped and 8 pointer :lol:

[SS90]

You may also wish to reflect on the young lives that were lost to save Japanese aggressors reaching our shores in the middle of the 20th century, so that you are both here and can enjoy freedom of speech. Clashing with tyranny was justified then as it also was in 1982

I don't subscribe to that myself. The simple fact is the Maldivas have never, at any point legally belonged to the UK, their being there violates several international laws. The facts are indesputable.
It was just a case of "might is right"

This Beers no relation to Japanese imperialism in the 1930s, it is infact, the very opposite.

[Banditbandit]

Maggie is the mother of modern Britain. If not for her that country would still be living in some trade union-led ice age, isolated from Europe and the rest of the civilised world -- a sort of North Korea across the water from France.

Bwhahahaha .. what a load of shit ...


we should give her a proper send off


Stephen

What's this "we" bit ????




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFv3sRnmHB0

[Hinny]

Most of the funeral cost is being paid for by Thatchers estate, not from the public purse.

Dream on.

A Downing Street statement said: "On the day itself, the streets will be cleared of traffic and the coffin will travel by hearse from the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster to the Church of St Clement Danes, the RAF Chapel, on the Strand.
"At the church the coffin will be transferred to a gun carriage drawn by the King's Troop Royal Artillery. The coffin will then be borne in procession from St Clement Danes to St Paul's Cathedral.
"The route will be lined by tri-service military personnel."
At St Paul's it will be met by a guard of honour

Who do you think will be paying for that?
Certainly not the Thatcher Estate.

[Robert Taylor]

I don't subscribe to that myself. The simple fact is the Maldivas have never, at any point legally belonged to the UK, their being there violates several international laws. The facts are indesputable.
It was just a case of "might is right"

This Beers no relation to Japanese imperialism in the 1930s, it is infact, the very opposite.

No, even the sheep are English. The huge oil reserves offshore are also English

[oneofsix]

Poor Maggie. The Iron Lady rusts and Britian sings, or so it seems
Ding Dong! The Witch is Dead, as sung by Judy Garland in The Wizard of Oz, has raced to the top of the Amazon download chart in Britain, a day after the death of former prime minister Margaret Thatcher

[Oscar]

I don't subscribe to that myself. The simple fact is the Maldivas have never, at any point legally belonged to the UK, their being there violates several international laws. The facts are indesputable.
It was just a case of "might is right"

This Beers no relation to Japanese imperialism in the 1930s, it is infact, the very opposite.

Absolute rubbish.
The islands were unihabited when discovered by europeans, and are 500 kms from the mainland.
On that basis, Denmark has a right to invade Iceland.
As the locals wish the status quo to remain by a majority approaching 99%, what about the International Convention on Human Rights?

If it really was contrary to international law, why did the Argies have to resort to war to reclaim the islands?
Also, why do you not mention that one side in the war actually fitted the accepted definition of a Fascist Regime?
Do you support the Argie Juanta in their attempt to get their way by military force?
Where is your outrage for "the disappeared"?

[Robert Taylor]

Dream on.

A Downing Street statement said: "On the day itself, the streets will be cleared of traffic and the coffin will travel by hearse from the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster to the Church of St Clement Danes, the RAF Chapel, on the Strand.
"At the church the coffin will be transferred to a gun carriage drawn by the King's Troop Royal Artillery. The coffin will then be borne in procession from St Clement Danes to St Paul's Cathedral.
"The route will be lined by tri-service military personnel."
At St Paul's it will be met by a guard of honour

Who do you think will be paying for that?
Certainly not the Thatcher Estate.

Given alone as one of many achievments that her iron will saved England from bankruptcy it is appropriate for the state to help bankroll a highly fitting send off. As it also was for their other great leader of the 20th century, WS Churchill. Thank god there is currently a Conservative led Government to ensure same

[Robert Taylor]

Absolute rubbish.
The islands were unihabited when discovered by europeans, and are 500 kms from the mainland.
On that basis, Denmark has a right to invade Iceland.
As the locals wish the status quo to remain by a majority approaching 99%, what about the International Convention on Human Rights?

If it really was contrary to international law, why did the Argies have to resort to war to reclaim the islands?
Also, why do you not mention that one side in the war actually fitted the accepted definition of a Fascist Regime?
Do you support the Argie Juanta in their attempt to get their way by military force?
Where is your outrage for "the disappeared"?

Plus also the Argies currently deliberately harvesting immature squid off the coast of Argentina before they migrate to their traditional fishing grounds off the Falklands, coinciding with their maturity. Not so squeaky clean or ethical

[MSTRS]

No, not a Republic, the union flag should remain part of our heritage.
Nup. Get rid of all such symbols and consign it to history. Make a clean break and a new start. Look what embracing 'our' history has got us...


So what would say if we were invaded and asked England for help and they didn't come?

And you think they would? Get real. 18,000kms away and too far in bed with the EC.

[Swoop]

The simple fact is the Maldivas have never, at any point...

Good greif! I never appreciated that Argentina owns the Maldives. Really I cannot blame them for coveting these lovely islands, but being in the Indian Ocean and not the Atlantic, wouldn't this be a bit of a logistical problem?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maldives
281163

[Banditbandit]

Nup. Get rid of all such symbols and consign it to history. Make a clean break and a new start. Look what embracing 'our' history has got us...




I agfree ... But we never "embraced" our history - we forgot it .. How many New Zealanders realize that they are here because the British Isles made their ancestors refugees of some sort (mainly economic, but some religious, some political and some criminal) ... and they want to keep the link ??? Well Doh !!!

[ellipsis]

Plus also the Argies currently deliberately harvesting immature squid off the coast of Argentina before they migrate to their traditional fishing grounds off the Falklands, coinciding with their maturity. Not so squeaky clean or ethical


...the naivety of your statements make me think you are not half as clever as you think you are...Galtieri
needed a war or somesuch political upheaval to save his arse and she was in a similar situation, so she obliged...typical of power hungry despots throughout history...your views are your personal political dogma that you adhere to...some of us treat her with the contempt she deserves...the lives that both the tin pot general and the twisted iron lady spent on their political aspirations put them both on the same level as Idi Amin or any other third world dictator...just cunts...

[Scuba_Steve]

No, not a Republic, the union flag should remain part of our heritage.


Nup. Get rid of all such symbols and consign it to history. Make a clean break and a new start. Look what embracing 'our' history has got us...


^ yep pretty much that. The union needs to go; NZ needs a new flag that represents NZ, not England, not Australia, NZ & only NZ!

[oneofsix]

A flag with a red field and gold stars to represent the southern cross and depict our links to China :corn:

[MisterD]

...typical of power hungry despots throughout history...

Oh bullshit, it may have worked out well for Maggie politically, but she took a huge risk in sending the task force to turf the Argies out. It was quite simply not in her character to do the appeasement thing, her actions over the Falklands were perfectly consistent with how she dealt with the Soviets and with the IRA.


your views are your personal political dogma that you adhere to...

Pot...kettle...

British rule of the Falklands dates from before Argentina was even a country, and the Argies really should be a bit more thankful because it was the Royal Navy that actually provided the muscle to back up the "Monroe Doctrine" and ensure that Spain didn't re-assert colonial rule over them after the distractions of the Napoleonic Wars.

[blackdog]

What! Meryl Streep is dead?

[gammaguy]

Maggie is the mother of modern Britain. If not for her that country would still be living in some trade union-led ice age, isolated from Europe and the rest of the civilised world -- a sort of North Korea across the water from France.

And things are hunky dory there now are they?

[Robert Taylor]

And things are hunky dory there now are they?

They would be a hell of lot better off in the last ten years or so ( prior to the current Govt ) they didnt have Gordon Brown to squander all their capital plus importation of large numbers of lower grade immigrants to bolster the left wing vote. A lot of real gains were undone.

Anyway Im stoically pro union flag, monarchy and of a tory disposition, and Im sticking to it.

[merv]

Maggie or no Maggie I think the UK is a nice place to visit.

[Banditbandit]

A flag with a red field and gold stars to represent the southern cross and depict our links to China :corn:

Umm .. errr ... I lik the Red Flag idea ... (The People's Flag is deepest red) .. but links to China ??? Naaa .. that would be worse than our old links to Amerika !!!

[mashman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHcdgHACcAAdi40.jpg:large

[Oscar]

The sooner the Scots get their independence the better.

[MSTRS]

Aye laddie. An' we'v nae fergo'n Culloden....

[Oscar]

Aye laddie. An' we'v nae fergo'n Culloden....

Their GDP would drop by about 30%, they'd be out of the EU and they'd still be the worst Rugby team in the six nations.

[blackdog]

http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/libertarians-unsure-whether-to-care-about-death-of-margaret-thatcher/

[BoristheBiter]

Their GDP would drop by about 30%, they'd be out of the EU and they'd still be the worst Rugby team in the six nations.

The fact that at the last pole they had, only 37% wanted it.
When they found out they would have to pay their own welfare costs only 13% wanted it.

And when they poled people in England, 84% wanted it.

[Hinny]

Why not, it's good enough for most.

Most of the fascists that have posted earlier...

[SPman]

Gordon Brown to squander all their capital plus importation of large numbers of lower grade immigrants to bolster the left wing vote
Gordon Brown....New Labour party......LEFT WING! :lol::killingme


Their GDP would drop by about 30%, they'd be out of the EU and they'd still be the worst Rugby team in the six nations.I thought most of the North Sea oil/gas fields were in Scotland's territory....?
Out of the EU - is that a bad thing - at least they get to control whatever money they might have their own way - not the German banker's way.........

[unstuck]

R.I.P. Maggie.:Punk::Punk:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wDf1Cykxtcw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Brian d marge]

R.I.P. Maggie.:Punk::Punk:


Hehehee I remember them
Great days

Stephen

[mashman]

I thought most of the North Sea oil/gas fields were in Scotland's territory....?
Out of the EU - is that a bad thing - at least they get to control whatever money they might have their own way - not the German banker's way.........

The also have plenty of water to sell to England... although it may be the death of Blackpool.

[Ocean1]

Their GDP would drop by about 30%, they'd be out of the EU and they'd still be the worst Rugby team in the six nations.

You've not seen the historic grievances claims?

[jonbuoy]

Aye laddie. An' we'v nae fergo'n Culloden....

So you want to move on and build a New NZ and expect the Maoris to forget about the treaty but you still hold a perceived grudge against the English from a Battle 100 years earlier than the Maori wars?

[Hinny]

Great Britain 1, Argentina nil.

More accurately it was:
Britain 255,
Argentina 649,
Falkland Islands 3.

In addition:
An estimated 264 British and 350-500 Argentine veterans committed suicide.

for what?

[Robert Taylor]

More accurately it was:
Britain 255,
Argentina 649,
Falkland Islands 3.

In addition:
An estimated 264 British and 350-500 Argentine veterans committed suicide.

for what?

Oil, soverignty, sending a message to dictators etc. The aggressors by far suffered the greatest losses, thats fair. Not all of us are pacifists.

[Robert Taylor]

The sooner the Scots get their independence the better.

Per capita they take far more out of the welfare purse. So how would they fund it themselves?

[Robert Taylor]

...the naivety of your statements make me think you are not half as clever as you think you are...Galtieri
needed a war or somesuch political upheaval to save his arse and she was in a similar situation, so she obliged...typical of power hungry despots throughout history...your views are your personal political dogma that you adhere to...some of us treat her with the contempt she deserves...the lives that both the tin pot general and the twisted iron lady spent on their political aspirations put them both on the same level as Idi Amin or any other third world dictator...just cunts...

I lived and worked in the UK during that conflict and I can assure you Im very well read on the subject. Its just that my deductions / opinions are different to yours. I may not agree with your viewpoints but in general those of a political persuasion right of centre largely accept that there will be differing opinions. What is irksome though is there are so many of a left wing persuasaion that are totally convinced their views are the only ones that are correct and get very aggressive to those who dont agree. I have found this time and time again.
Look at the people in Brixton celebrating Maggies death, did you see the same disgusting spectacle of Tories brazenly celebrating and denigrating her political adversary of that time ( Michael Foot ) who died a year or so back? I didnt agree with his politics but he had some good points.

[SS90]

Absolute rubbish.
The islands were unihabited when discovered by europeans, and are 500 kms from the mainland.
On that basis, Denmark has a right to invade Iceland.
As the locals wish the status quo to remain by a majority approaching 99%, what about the International Convention on Human Rights?

If it really was contrary to international law, why did the Argies have to resort to war to reclaim the islands?
Also, why do you not mention that one side in the war actually fitted the accepted definition of a Fascist Regime?
Do you support the Argie Juanta in their attempt to get their way by military force?
Where is your outrage for "the disappeared"?

A popular misconception it would seem.

500km from Argentina, maybe, but quite some distance from Kensington High Road.

In an effort to stave of wars from imperialism, international laws where made requiring certain conditions to be met when claiming countries or terrirtories as your own (Like the race between France and England for New Zealand in regards to colonisation..... it was pretty close you know.... NZ was very nearly French (Port Luis Phillip anyone?..... ever noticed how narrow the streets in Akaroa are?

Both countries where bound by an international traety to have a certain number of nationals on a country before it was considered "theirs", and it was also a requirement that it was done in a certain time frame (Prisoners to Australia anyone?)

In regards to The Maldivas, due to the proximity to Argentina, England was required to have a host of conditions met to satisfy their claim, (if I remember correctly, none where met).......

The only reason they wanted the land was oil, they only reasosn the international community let it happen was, well they where bigger, and thats what matters in this situation..... England wanted the little kids lunch money, and no-one stopped it.

[Virago]

A very very sad day, may Margaret rest in peace

Ah, yes - The Iron Lady.

May she rust in peace.

[Robert Taylor]

A popular misconception it would seem.

500km from Argentina, maybe, but quite some distance from Kensington High Road.

In an effort to stave of wars from imperialism, international laws where made requiring certain conditions to be met when claiming countries or terrirtories as your own (Like the race between France and England for New Zealand in regards to colonisation..... it was pretty close you know.... NZ was very nearly French (Port Luis Phillip anyone?..... ever noticed how narrow the streets in Akaroa are?

Both countries where bound by an international traety to have a certain number of nationals on a country before it was considered "theirs", and it was also a requirement that it was done in a certain time frame (Prisoners to Australia anyone?)

In regards to The Maldivas, due to the proximity to Argentina, England was required to have a host of conditions met to satisfy their claim, (if I remember correctly, none where met).......

The only reason they wanted the land was oil, they only reasosn the international community let it happen was, well they where bigger, and thats what matters in this situation..... England wanted the little kids lunch money, and no-one stopped it.

Best you learn Spanish and emigrate then?

[Berries]

I was disappointed that they didn't have a minutes silence during the Manchester derby the other night. At least City sent on an Argentinian sub at half time.

Nah, I'm not disappointed. I grew up in a mining village just outside Nottingham and left school in 1983 so I can understand some of the comments coming out of the UK. I will certainly be watching the funeral, mainly to see the riot police out in force again. Be a fitting tribute really after the miners and the poll tax riots.

[Oscar]

A popular misconception it would seem.

500km from Argentina, maybe, but quite some distance from Kensington High Road.

In an effort to stave of wars from imperialism, international laws where made requiring certain conditions to be met when claiming countries or terrirtories as your own (Like the race between France and England for New Zealand in regards to colonisation..... it was pretty close you know.... NZ was very nearly French (Port Luis Phillip anyone?..... ever noticed how narrow the streets in Akaroa are?

Both countries where bound by an international traety to have a certain number of nationals on a country before it was considered "theirs", and it was also a requirement that it was done in a certain time frame (Prisoners to Australia anyone?)

In regards to The Maldivas, due to the proximity to Argentina, England was required to have a host of conditions met to satisfy their claim, (if I remember correctly, none where met).......

The only reason they wanted the land was oil, they only reasosn the international community let it happen was, well they where bigger, and thats what matters in this situation..... England wanted the little kids lunch money, and no-one stopped it.

First of all - it's Malvinas
.

But most of all, and feel free to prove otherwise, the Falklands were uninhabited and Argentina did not exist when the Europeans first arrived.
Add in the fact that 97% of Argentinians are actually descended from white colonists and then you see how ridiculous the situation is.
It's like Australia claiming NZ on the basis that NZ was uninhabited when the Aborigines first lived in Aussie...

As for your last point, the Argentine regime in 1982 was one of the nastiest around - the international community couldn't wait for someone to kick Galteri's arse.

[Hinny]

Oil, soverignty, sending a message to dictators etc. The aggressors by far suffered the greatest losses, thats fair. Not all of us are pacifists.

Fucking heartless armchair warrior....or should I say Gormless Twat.

The number of suicides of the actual warriors could be indicative of how they felt about the war.

[Oscar]

The number of suicides of the actual warriors is indicative of how they felt about the war.

And you know this...how?

[Ocean1]

I grew up in a mining village just outside Nottingham and left school in 1983 so I can understand some of the comments coming out of the UK.

I was working in London then, and I can tell you that the only sympathy for the industry there was from the press.

[SS90]

First of all - it's Malvinas
.

But most of all, and feel free to prove otherwise, the Falklands were uninhabited and Argentina did not exist when the Europeans first arrived.
Add in the fact that 97% of Argentinians are actually descended from white colonists and then you see how ridiculous the situation is.
It's like Australia claiming NZ on the basis that NZ was uninhabited when the Aborigines first lived in Aussie...

As for your last point, the Argentine regime in 1982 was one of the nastiest around - the international community couldn't wait for someone to kick Galteri's arse.

Hey, I never said I supported the regime, I just presented a different angle to the conversation.

By international law, it should not be considered English territory.

He was not dubbed the tinpot General for nothing.

[Oscar]

Hey, I never said I supported the regime, I just presented a different angle to the conversation.

By international law, it should not be considered English territory.

He was not dubbed the tinpot General for nothing.

Maybe they should just ask the locals?











No, wait a minute - they did...

[GrayWolf]

I was disappointed that they didn't have a minutes silence during the Manchester derby the other night. At least City sent on an Argentinian sub at half time.

Nah, I'm not disappointed. I grew up in a mining village just outside Nottingham and left school in 1983 so I can understand some of the comments coming out of the UK. I will certainly be watching the funeral, mainly to see the riot police out in force again. Be a fitting tribute really after the miners and the poll tax riots.

Yes and I lived in England till 1991, and left to come here in my early 30's.. I also remember the Miner's Strike and was in a security dog handlers van on top of a multi storey car park in Brixton when the riot went off,, (that was farkin scary)

However the Miners strike? Yes I remember it well, and the local Pub's in Thornton Heath (Croydon) being FULL and I mean FULL of 'STARVING MINERS' getting pissed while their wives and women were out in the streets begging? collecting money etc.
I also remember the Orgreive coke plant and miners strike that did in Ted Heath's govt......
Lets not forget the asshole's likr Scargil, who held a country to ransom in mid winter, causing massive power cuts, and putting 100,000's of elderly people at severe risk of hypothermia and many DID DIE,,,, As well as Billions of pounds in lost production.
SO you think Maggie was going to let the prat win round 2??? Scargill was a 'communist twat' who had no real interest in the 'Miner's welfare' he was only interested in Arthur Scargill........
I hated the Pol tax as much as the next person, and yes I agree Maggie went too far on some things,,, but by christ, I can bet a pound to a pinch of shit, if she were in power in her prime today? The UK would not be in the sorry shit state as the social benifit haven and dumping ground of 'poor European' countries it is now in,,,

[merv]

What if the Morris Marina and the Austin Allegro had been reliable and successful cars built by craftsmen, then maybe Maggie wouldn't have needed to bust the unions, oh but that's right, the workers used to sleep on the night shift?

[GrayWolf]

What if the Morris Marina and the Austin Allegro had been reliable and successful cars built by craftsmen, then maybe Maggie wouldn't have needed to bust the unions, oh but that's right, the workers used to sleep on the night shift?

Sad bloody thing is.. if you read up on the Allegro, it was a highly advanced design for it's day, and had it been built with any real quality??

[BoristheBiter]

Fucking heartless armchair warrior....or should I say Gormless Twat.

The number of suicides of the actual warriors could be indicative of how they felt about the war.

So you would have just let the Argentinean's take over the country and not lift a finger even though the locals are screaming for your help?

And who's a fascist?

[YellowDog]

I had an office in UK Squaddieland and met quite a few involved.

Apparently it was a courtmarshallable offence to refer to a local male as a 'Benny'.

Being such a small place there's a lot of inbred folks around and they were like Benny from CrossRoads.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/18/article-1388452-0C2265FB00000578-751_233x423.jpg

[SS90]

Maybe they should just ask the locals?

No, wait a minute - they did...

Spurrious argument at best mate, if you put the locals there, of course they agree with you... asked many Maori how they feel about selling the water rights? They where here before the white man........... Does the same logic not apply our Govenment seem sto think no (might is right)

[BoristheBiter]

Spurrious argument at best mate, if you put the locals there, of course they agree with you... asked many Maori how they feel about selling the water rights? They where here before the white man...........

then they lost.

[Madness]

They where here before the white man...........

There were Maori in Schärding before the white man?

[SS90]

Yes and I lived in England till 1991, and left to come here in my early 30's.. I also remember the Miner's Strike and was in a security dog handlers van on top of a multi storey car park in Brixton when the riot went off,, (that was farkin scary)

However the Miners strike? Yes I remember it well, and the local Pub's in Thornton Heath (Croydon) being FULL and I mean FULL of 'STARVING MINERS' getting pissed while their wives and women were out in the streets begging? collecting money etc.
I also remember the Orgreive coke plant and miners strike that did in Ted Heath's govt......
Lets not forget the asshole's likr Scargil, who held a country to ransom in mid winter, causing massive power cuts, and putting 100,000's of elderly people at severe risk of hypothermia and many DID DIE,,,, As well as Billions of pounds in lost production.
SO you think Maggie was going to let the prat win round 2??? Scargill was a 'communist twat' who had no real interest in the 'Miner's welfare' he was only interested in Arthur Scargill........
I hated the Pol tax as much as the next person, and yes I agree Maggie went too far on some things,,, but by christ, I can bet a pound to a pinch of shit, if she were in power in her prime today? The UK would not be in the sorry shit state as the social benifit haven and dumping ground of 'poor European' countries it is now in,,,

True that.

But she just went too far on too many things. Someone needs to sort out the EU dumping ground for sure, it a bloody joke (go to the UK, get pregnant to a current citizen..... House, power, heating everytime, no problem........ back in "homeland", not a thing... the other side of the coin is "what would you do" they are not breaking any laws......

[Berries]

I was working in London then, and I can tell you that the only sympathy for the industry there was from the press.
I didn't have any sympathy back then. Decided I was wrong about it though in the end.


However the Miners strike? Yes I remember it well, and the local Pub's in Thornton Heath (Croydon) being FULL and I mean FULL of 'STARVING MINERS' getting pissed while their wives and women were out in the streets begging? collecting money etc.
Yeah well, we will all have different memories about that period. Glad I was able to get the fuck out of it and leave them all to it.



So anyway, why isn't this thread in Jokes and humour?

[SS90]

then they lost.

Really? lost, who? The Maori? Hmmm, not sure about that, the Crown (not really a great definition, and really means the tax payer) shells out million and millions every month both in settlements and litigation expenses...and no end in sight.

Given that in these situation there is no winner, who is getting compensated, and who is giving the compensation?

[Brian d marge]

True that.

But she just went too far on too many things. Someone needs to sort out the EU dumping ground for sure, it a bloody joke (go to the UK, get pregnant to a current citizen..... House, power, heating every time, no problem........ back in "homeland", not a thing... the other side of the coin is "what would you do" they are not breaking any laws......

Well that is what happens if you join the boys in the eec , British people can also go to other European country’s, some being very nice indeed

Mrs M , swallowed the new right thinking hook line and sinker , Milt Friedman all the way. Possibly more so ! sell off the crown jewels , open up the financial sector , try? to tax it :lol: and bob is your uncle ( bob Balfour that is ! )

IF you have the ability to move large amounts of money, in what ever form you stand a reasonable chance of "doing ok " , BUT if you cant or wont , then sorry your fked
So If you had a council flat in a up and coming area , and DIDNT invest in a time-share in Spain , you may have two or more rentals around the place and may be cushtie !
meanwhile on 53 pound a week, ( just like in NZ and paulas.. new plans for the scum class) your FKed , Crime eases the pain !
as for that gap between the rich and poor ....... oh hang it will trickle down !! hahahahahaaaaa

On saying that, yes our ken had his nose firmly in the London trough and Arthur, well the self serving prick yes British business needed help , but not the kick in the nuts it got
British business in the main suffered from out dated machinery , poor management ( sometimes ) and collapsing markets Coal for example , expensive to mine ( as always ) a collapsing home market and No if any investment .( stand to be corrected ) ,,,but what are they using for electricity generation now ,,,COAL !

Dont know much about the Falklands except that I was friggen impressed by the brit soldiers ... fine bit of soldiering from my limited knowledge !

Stephen

[MisterD]

The sooner the Scots get their independence the better.

Spoken like a true Englishman...

[Banditbandit]

Their GDP would drop by about 30%,


You need to explain that one a little more - as the Scots would have the North Sea oil ... and England would not ... so how does GDP drop for Scotland ? Surely it would increase as the income from North Sea oil would not bleed south to England ..

[Banditbandit]

then they lost.

Huh ??? What ??? leading NZ historian James belich says the New Zealand Wars simply came to a standstill - and no-one won or lost .. he's about right ..


Really? lost, who? The Maori? Hmmm, not sure about that, the Crown (not really a great definition, and really means the tax payer) shells out million and millions every month both in settlements and litigation expenses...and no end in sight.

Given that in these situation there is no winner, who is getting compensated, and who is giving the compensation?

Hey .. we've been spotted (bugga) ... See .. we don't think the conflict has ended .. even if you do ... ("Ka whawhai tonu matou ...ake ake ake") and the fight has changed grounds ... now we are breeding the white man (and woman) out of existence :msn-wink:

[Robert Taylor]

Fucking heartless armchair warrior....or should I say Gormless Twat.

The number of suicides of the actual warriors could be indicative of how they felt about the war.

Chair whilst typing yes. Military service, yes. Albeit not in a combat zone but a closer step to everyday citizens. Military tradition in family, yes very certainly and very proud of it.

Bear in mind that most of the Argy soldiers were conscripts who didnt want to fight for Galtieris opportunistic adventure. They were up against seasoned well trained proffessional British soldiers who volunteered knowing they might one day be in a combat zone. I have to admire though the Argentine Air Force strike pilots, especially in the A4s, they were brave, very marginal on fuel load and gave a very good account of themselves.

[Swoop]

Bear in mind that most of the Argy soldiers were conscripts who didnt want to fight for Galtieris opportunistic adventure. They were up against seasoned well trained proffessional British soldiers...
From what I have read, they didn't like seeing Ghurkas... Not one little bit.

[Brian d marge]

[QUOTE=unstuck;1130529238]
They don't like it up em you know , don't like it up em ..


Stephen

[Robert Taylor]

From what I have read, they didn't like seeing Ghurkas... Not one little bit.

You didnt usually know they were there until you could feel the knife severing your throat......................

[MSTRS]

Their GDP would drop by about 30%, they'd be out of the EU and they'd still be the worst Rugby team in the six nations.
Being shot o' the English holds it's ain reward...

[Indiana_Jones]

Rest in peace, Maggie.

-Indy

[Ocean1]

Someone needs to sort out the EU dumping ground for sure, it a bloody joke.

I agree, we orta send the fucking lot back to Europe. Particularly those septic English class war refugees, they spread infectious, seditious shit everywhere thay go.

[Hinny]

From what I have read, they didn't like seeing Ghurkas... Not one little bit.

Doing Dick Emery impersonations...."We British....."

[Hinny]

Chair whilst typing yes. Military service, yes. Albeit not in a combat zone but a closer step to everyday citizens. Military tradition in family, yes very certainly and very proud of it..

Your lack of empathy would be interpreted by many psychologists as stemming from not being cuddled as an infant.

[Hinny]

Your lack of empathy would be interpreted by many psychologists as stemming from not being cuddled as an infant.

Probably your right wing ideals as well.
No offence intended.
Just an objective observation/opinion.

[Robert Taylor]

Your lack of empathy would be interpreted by many psychologists as stemming from not being cuddled as an infant.

Sorry I dont find socialist and pacifist dogma cuddly subjects. How about empathy for the British subjects on the Falklands who firmly wanted to remain British subjects?

If ever there is a case for human cloning Maggie is a prime example for such possibilities, as is Enoch Powell.

I will remember the Tory pin up girl fondly, as will many

[Robert Taylor]

Doing Dick Emery impersonations...."We British....."

Yes and it took a notable British actress and her actions to embrass Gordon Botchup Brown and his Labour lot to accept that Gurkhas had a right to retire in Britian. Infinitely moreso than many they deserve such gratitude.

[gunnyrob]

I have to say that I joined up after seeing gunnies do this sort of thing in 1982. Still here!

[GrayWolf]

Sorry I dont find socialist and pacifist dogma cuddly subjects. How about empathy for the British subjects on the Falklands who firmly wanted to remain British subjects?

If ever there is a case for human cloning Maggie is a prime example for such possibilities, as is Enoch Powell.

I will remember the Tory pin up girl fondly, as will many

Yup another 'visionary' Politician whom History has proven right....... His 'River's of Blood' speech was 100% on the money... as we all saw 20 yrs later in brixton, toxteth et al.

[Brian d marge]

Enoch Powell

oh dear taken out of context again

Classic fail


Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Go Glenda , ( well spoken to, unlike the NZ lot )

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XDtClJYJBj8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stephen

[SPman]

At least City sent on an Argentinian sub at half time. Was that to see to the british cruisers....?

[slowpoke]

Yup another 'visionary' Politician whom History has proven right....... His 'River's of Blood' speech was 100% on the money... as we all saw 20 yrs later in brixton, toxteth et al.

Enoch Powell? He sounds like a bloke in touch with average life on the streets:

"Before entering politics, he had been a classical scholar, becoming a full Professor of Ancient Greek at the age of 25. During the Second World War, he served in both staff and intelligence positions, reaching the rank of brigadier in his early thirties. He also wrote poetry, his first works being published in 1937, as well as many books on classical and political subjects" Wiki

Errrrr, maybe not.........

Brixton riots? Many social commentators attribute those riots to the effects of Margaret Thatchers policies: she lead the country into 2 recessions, and presided over record unelmpoyment not seen since the Great Depression. In 1979 13.4% of the population lived under the 60% median income threshold, by 1990 it had gone up to 22.2% (from the Institute of Fiscal Studies). She sold off the council houses, creating a massive shortage of affordable housing, as no new stock was built to replace the houses sold. Some 5 million people are now on the social housing waiting list.

" Last month, the Daily Mirror reported that Charles Gow, the son of Mrs. Thatcher’s housing minister, Ian Gow, bought 40 of the 120 former council flats in one housing project in Roehampton, in South West London. Rents for the former council flats have soared, leaving some low-income tenants begging for higher rental subsidies. “Speculators have made millions out of exploiting public assets,” Tony Belton, a Labour councillor in South West London, told the Mirror. “It stinks.” From http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/thatchers-legacy-a-shortage-of-affordable-housing/article11015971/

You reap what you sow, and given the booming inequality in the UK, generational unemployment, and social disfunction, it's hard not to argue that Margaret Thatcher sowed the seeds for the discontent that continues to this day.

[BoristheBiter]

Go Glenda , ( well spoken to, unlike the NZ lot )



Stephen

What an ugly women and i'm not just meaning in looks.
If this is what you class as well spoken i'm glad you think it's unlike NZ.

[Robert Taylor]

Enoch Powell? He sounds like a bloke in touch with average life on the streets:

"Before entering politics, he had been a classical scholar, becoming a full Professor of Ancient Greek at the age of 25. During the Second World War, he served in both staff and intelligence positions, reaching the rank of brigadier in his early thirties. He also wrote poetry, his first works being published in 1937, as well as many books on classical and political subjects" Wiki

Errrrr, maybe not.........

Brixton riots? Many social commentators attribute those riots to the effects of Margaret Thatchers policies: she lead the country into 2 recessions, and presided over record unelmpoyment not seen since the Great Depression. In 1979 13.4% of the population lived under the 60% median income threshold, by 1990 it had gone up to 22.2% (from the Institute of Fiscal Studies). She sold off the council houses, creating a massive shortage of affordable housing, as no new stock was built to replace the houses sold. Some 5 million people are now on the social housing waiting list.

" Last month, the Daily Mirror reported that Charles Gow, the son of Mrs. Thatcher’s housing minister, Ian Gow, bought 40 of the 120 former council flats in one housing project in Roehampton, in South West London. Rents for the former council flats have soared, leaving some low-income tenants begging for higher rental subsidies. “Speculators have made millions out of exploiting public assets,” Tony Belton, a Labour councillor in South West London, told the Mirror. “It stinks.” From http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/thatchers-legacy-a-shortage-of-affordable-housing/article11015971/

You reap what you sow, and given the booming inequality in the UK, generational unemployment, and social disfunction, it's hard not to argue that Margaret Thatcher sowed the seeds for the discontent that continues to this day.

Spud, I would have thought indifferent administrations for roughly 20 or more years prior to Maggie sowed a lot of seeds that turned very ugly. When she took over the country was bankrupt of funds and work ethic.

[MisterD]

What an ugly women and i'm not just meaning in looks.

I'm sure you can photos on the web with her boobs out during her acting career...but yeah, typical modern Labour party: born on the Wirral, now MP for Hampstead or Highgate or somesuch priviledged, Guardian-reading, enclave.

[slowpoke]

Spud, I would have thought indifferent administrations for roughly 20 or more years prior to Maggie sowed a lot of seeds that turned very ugly. When she took over the country was bankrupt of funds and work ethic.

Yep, pretty much agree Robert. As with anything it's not a simple stuation of saying she was good or bad. She undoubtedly did some great things, but also some incredibly damaging things. I'm all for "firm but fair" but too much of what she did seemed too brutal/callous to hold her up as a heroine.

[GrayWolf]

Enoch Powell? He sounds like a bloke in touch with average life on the streets:

"Before entering politics, he had been a classical scholar, becoming a full Professor of Ancient Greek at the age of 25. During the Second World War, he served in both staff and intelligence positions, reaching the rank of brigadier in his early thirties. He also wrote poetry, his first works being published in 1937, as well as many books on classical and political subjects" Wiki

Errrrr, maybe not.........

Brixton riots? Many social commentators attribute those riots to the effects of Margaret Thatchers policies: she lead the country into 2 recessions, and presided over record unelmpoyment not seen since the Great Depression. In 1979 13.4% of the population lived under the 60% median income threshold, by 1990 it had gone up to 22.2% (from the Institute of Fiscal Studies). She sold off the council houses, creating a massive shortage of affordable housing, as no new stock was built to replace the houses sold. Some 5 million people are now on the social housing waiting list.

" Last month, the Daily Mirror reported that Charles Gow, the son of Mrs. Thatcher’s housing minister, Ian Gow, bought 40 of the 120 former council flats in one housing project in Roehampton, in South West London. Rents for the former council flats have soared, leaving some low-income tenants begging for higher rental subsidies. “Speculators have made millions out of exploiting public assets,” Tony Belton, a Labour councillor in South West London, told the Mirror. “It stinks.” From http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/thatchers-legacy-a-shortage-of-affordable-housing/article11015971/

You reap what you sow, and given the booming inequality in the UK, generational unemployment, and social disfunction, it's hard not to argue that Margaret Thatcher sowed the seeds for the discontent that continues to this day.

Brixton riots?
Actually the 'trigger' for them was supposed to be stated by the 'Black Community Leaders of the time', the death of a 15yr old boy in Police custody, and the supposed 'anti black' law, of stop and search on 'suspicion of possessing drugs' .... Funny thing was, they bleated about that only 'Blacks' were targeted as being 'Muggers' another Brixton/Streatham high level crime, but statisticaly? over 90% were PERPETRATED by 'Coloured offenders'...... But hey that was Police racism?

Low Cost Housing?
One thing many here (NZ) would NOT realise is the housing situation in the UK is VERY different to NZ. In the UK house ownership is not an 'affordable' phenomenon, due mainly I guess to less land available, far larger population.. MOST Housing is Council or 'State' housing.. so the bleating of 'high prices' from private rentals? is a percentage yes, but not the majority.. Hell rents have ALWAYS been 'high' in the private sector. When I was a lad and left home at 17 (1976) renting a 'small room' in a house 'Bedsit' (basically you rent a room and it has your bed, benchtop cooker, fridge etc in it and usually has a coin electricity meter in the room) you LIVE in that room, no shared lounge.. but you share toilet, washing facilities ,, RENT for a small bedsit back then was 8 quid a week. That was in the SUBURBS not London.

Reap what you sow? The COUNTRY reaped what it had sown for the previous 20+ years, overspending, over immigration, Union destructive behaviour, Oh and dont forget the UK was the ONLY country that had a War debt to the USA and actually DID pay it off in entirety, that cost the country Billions over a 40 year period! Had Maggie NOT stood against the Miners, then I believe that you would have seen a total collapse THEN of the Country. I agree there were some things she really did 'overdo' the poll tax was a farce, and as much as her staunchness was the right person at the right time for the FALKLANDS, sadly I would agree she did start to believe her own 'invincibility' as a leader.
One of the things that strangely enough happened AFTER it was 'too late' was a change in the UK immigration law, it used to be allowed that if you were a 'british citizen' you could 'import' family almost without control.. so you ended up with entire family generations coming over and claiming citizenship... that was screamed at by the 'lefties' as racist........ look at the country now... it's the social welfare HAVEN of Europe... it's over populated, and rents are so frikkin high (due to lack of housing) BECAUSE there's too many people, and 'imports' get priority over nationals for state housing, social benefits..........

And you wonder why I got out in the early 90's?............

[Brian d marge]

What an ugly women and i'm not just meaning in looks.
If this is what you class as well spoken i'm glad you think it's unlike NZ.

Well , Im sorry she didn’t read from "notes" stung sentences together without using "and Um "

Must be lunch time in in the NZ , so here something to help you relieve the tension in the toilet
281217

Stephen

[Oscar]

Well , Im sorry she didn’t read from "notes" stung sentences together without using "and Um "

Must be lunch time in in the NZ , so here something to help you relieve the tension in the toilet
281217

Stephen

Congratulations, every time I think this place couldn't get more childish or moronic, you prove me wrong.

[Usarka]

£10 million squids for the funeral. That's about NZD17,000.

[Brian d marge]

Congratulations, every time I think this place couldn't get more childish or moronic, you prove me wrong.

hey, I only responded to your post in an appropriate manner and at the correct level for its reader

Stephen

[Oscar]

hey, I only responded to your post in an appropriate manner and at the correct level for its reader

Stephen

Firstly, you weren't responding to my post.
Secondly, and judging by your usual spelling, punctuation and grammar, you were responding at a level slight above your average keyboard diarrhea contribution.

Notwithstanding all that, a Nazi comparison?
Really?

Is that the best you can do?

[Robert Taylor]

Brixton riots?
Actually the 'trigger' for them was supposed to be stated by the 'Black Community Leaders of the time', the death of a 15yr old boy in Police custody, and the supposed 'anti black' law, of stop and search on 'suspicion of possessing drugs' .... Funny thing was, they bleated about that only 'Blacks' were targeted as being 'Muggers' another Brixton/Streatham high level crime, but statisticaly? over 90% were PERPETRATED by 'Coloured offenders'...... But hey that was Police racism?

Low Cost Housing?
One thing many here (NZ) would NOT realise is the housing situation in the UK is VERY different to NZ. In the UK house ownership is not an 'affordable' phenomenon, due mainly I guess to less land available, far larger population.. MOST Housing is Council or 'State' housing.. so the bleating of 'high prices' from private rentals? is a percentage yes, but not the majority.. Hell rents have ALWAYS been 'high' in the private sector. When I was a lad and left home at 17 (1976) renting a 'small room' in a house 'Bedsit' (basically you rent a room and it has your bed, benchtop cooker, fridge etc in it and usually has a coin electricity meter in the room) you LIVE in that room, no shared lounge.. but you share toilet, washing facilities ,, RENT for a small bedsit back then was 8 quid a week. That was in the SUBURBS not London.

Reap what you sow? The COUNTRY reaped what it had sown for the previous 20+ years, overspending, over immigration, Union destructive behaviour, Oh and dont forget the UK was the ONLY country that had a War debt to the USA and actually DID pay it off in entirety, that cost the country Billions over a 40 year period! Had Maggie NOT stood against the Miners, then I believe that you would have seen a total collapse THEN of the Country. I agree there were some things she really did 'overdo' the poll tax was a farce, and as much as her staunchness was the right person at the right time for the FALKLANDS, sadly I would agree she did start to believe her own 'invincibility' as a leader.
One of the things that strangely enough happened AFTER it was 'too late' was a change in the UK immigration law, it used to be allowed that if you were a 'british citizen' you could 'import' family almost without control.. so you ended up with entire family generations coming over and claiming citizenship... that was screamed at by the 'lefties' as racist........ look at the country now... it's the social welfare HAVEN of Europe... it's over populated, and rents are so frikkin high (due to lack of housing) BECAUSE there's too many people, and 'imports' get priority over nationals for state housing, social benefits..........

And you wonder why I got out in the early 90's?............

Well said that man! As Spud ( Slowpoke ) concurs its all very complicated. Governing modern day Britain would certainly have to be a hiding to hell.

[BoristheBiter]

hey, I only responded to your post in an appropriate manner and at the correct level for its reader

Stephen

You were responding to mine.
It didn't need a response as it was an observation not a question.

I don't need to add anymore as Oscar has said it.

[Brian d marge]

You were responding to mine.
It didn't need a response as it was an observation not a question.

I don't need to add anymore as Oscar has said it.

whoops sorry about that , poking fun at Oscar is now a conditioned response ...

fk me,,, first I agree with you now apologising to Oscar, the friggen worlds gone crazy


Stephen

[BoristheBiter]

whoops sorry about that , poking fun at Oscar is now a conditioned response ...

fk me,,, first I agree with you now apologising to Oscar, the friggen worlds gone crazy


Stephen

:killingme:killingme I might have to use that as my sig.

[SVboy]

I understand that maggie fucked even more young brits than jimmy saville. I heard that are not happy with the design of her grave-couldnt make the dance floor big enough. Good riddance IMHO.

[rapid van cleef]

Having lived through Maggies reign as a young-un through most of my teens I witnessed first hand the misery of mass unemployment and actual hunger that was caused by that woman and her policies which affected us particularly badly in the North East of England. However, I do believe that the UK was well and truly fucked by what happened next....as Graywolf said......the open dor policy for immigration which has now in turn bred so much rascism in the UK. Theres a reason, rather many reasons why many of us left the UK and are still leaving. She certainly had courage and had bigger balls than a lot of male PM's but I still would not piss on her if she was on fire.........er.....

[Brian d marge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-22104151

dont worry everything is ok

Stephen

[Macontour]

If you have time,this is worth a listen.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuq1_bhf638". And Maggie,over lunch one day, sunk a Cruiser with all hands, apparently tomake themgive it back" if I remember correctly. The sinking of the GenerealBelgrano by a British Sub. And WilliamHague is stillin government.

Sorry,had a few Bourbons,been a tough few months.

[Brian d marge]

was looking up the history of the falklands and may I say , the rights and wrongs of it all

that yomp by the 2nd para ? 90 km in 3 days or something like that with a 35 kg Bergen

awesome,,, fkin ell

even the romans didnt do that , and they were nuts

During the four month initial training of a Roman legionary, loaded marches were a core part of the training. Standards varied over time, but normally recruits were first required to complete 20 Roman miles (29.62 km or 18.405 modern miles) with 20.5 kg in five summer hours (the Roman day was divided into 12 hours regardless of season), which was known as "the regular step". They then progressed to the "faster step" and were required to complete 24 Roman miles (35.544 km or 22.086 modern miles) in five summer hours loaded with 20.5 kg.
Training also included some forced marches of 20–30 miles, often followed by the construction of basic defenses for an overnight position.

Stephen

[GrayWolf]

If you have time,this is worth a listen.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuq1_bhf638". And Maggie,over lunch one day, sunk a Cruiser with all hands, apparently tomake themgive it back" if I remember correctly. The sinking of the GenerealBelgrano by a British Sub. And WilliamHague is stillin government.

Sorry,had a few Bourbons,been a tough few months.

Yes it might have been an 'Old Cruiser' it was an ex British (belfast class, if memory serves) Heavy Cruiser with 8 inch guns...
Just like the Missouri, Iowa etc were 'Old Battleships'....

as was proven in the Falklands conflict with the Sheffield, the modern cruisers were not designed to withstand 'punishment' but to 'dish it out' from a distance... Hence why a single Exocet missile destroyed the Sheffield....
A full Salvo of 8 inch shells (armour piercing) weighing around 120-140 kilo's each hitting what is an un-armoured ship? (plate steel and Aluminium = why the sheffield burnt)

Range[2] Elevation Time of flight Descent Impact velocity
5000 yd (4.6 km) 2° 11′ 6 sec 2° 31′ 2154 ft/s (657 m/s)
10000 yd (9.1 km) 5° 14′ 14 sec 7° 15′ 1683 ft/s (513 m/s)
15000 yd (14 km) 9° 47′ 25 sec 15° 49′ 1322 ft/s (403 m/s)
20000 yd (18 km) 16° 34′ 38 sec 28° 31′ 1169 ft/s (356 m/s)
25000 yd (23 km) 26° 44′ 56 sec 43° 7′ 1164 ft/s (355 m/s)
29000 yd (27 km) 41° 28′ 79 sec 56° 37′ 1240 ft/s (378 m/s)

if you read those impact velocities,,,, and bear in mind that as was shown from the Bismark where there were signs of 8 inch shell impact (gouges) on 30-35cm thick armour DESIGNED to withstand the impact of 38cm shells weighing as much as a car,
why the hell do you think they sunk the bloody thing??
The armour on that old heavy cruiser would have withstood anything short of a Nuclear missile or a heavy bomb impact... now let that 'loose' among the missile cruisers.. or to shell a couple of aircraft carriers...

[Oscar]

If you have time,this is worth a listen.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuq1_bhf638". And Maggie,over lunch one day, sunk a Cruiser with all hands, apparently tomake themgive it back" if I remember correctly. The sinking of the GenerealBelgrano by a British Sub. And WilliamHague is stillin government.

Sorry,had a few Bourbons,been a tough few months.

So what?
And what did it matter what meal was being taken at the time?

Firstly, it wasn't sunk with all hands.
It had been in the exclusion zone previously and had aborted an attack run with exocets.

Where ever it was it was a threat to the task force and its sinking almost certainly kept the rest of the Argie navy (including an aircraft carrier) in port.

It was a horrible thing to do, but war is war and if you're looking for blame, try Gen. Gailterai -no one forced him to invade.
As far as I'm concerned, I had friends and relations in the task force, and anything that made them safer (including the sinking of the Belgrano) was OK by me...

[Oscar]

whoops sorry about that , poking fun at Oscar is now a conditioned response ...

fk me,,, first I agree with you now apologising to Oscar, the friggen worlds gone crazy


Stephen

Poking fun?
Maybe if anyone could understand your gibberish we might find it really funny.

We were discussing your post where you put a swastika on a politician whose opinions you disagree with.
Not just moronic and childish, but fucking boring.

[Brian d marge]

[QUOTE=Oscar;1130530270]Poking fun?
Maybe if anyone could understand your gibberish we might find it really funny.

We were discussing your post where you put a swastika on a politician whose opinions you disagree with.
Not just moronic and childish, but fucking boring.[/QUOTE
I wouldn’t be using the pronoun "we " try "you "
also
you would have no chance , first you would have to pull ya head out of the sand.

second , and this is the hard part , ya might have to step out of your comfort zone

My "gibberish tends to be backed up with evidence , and ya know what I cant remember you EVER doing that . You have been told by quite a few people here and are synonymous and famous for "the ostrich syndrome " and/ or a rather conservative view.

Paula bennet,; I didnt put the swastika on the drawing , that was pulled off the internet , which would suggest to me, that others ( quite a few others ) might also disagree with Paulas opinions

Life is back to normal Oscar is being his normal self and I wasn’t in a parallel universe ... was worried there for a moment.

Stephen

[Berries]

I was going to post something from Spitting Image but as everyone seems to be all serious found this instead.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lKx3MUqzCcQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

She obviously still has some power, getting the BBC to censor the top 40 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22126940

[Robert Taylor]

So what?
And what did it matter what meal was being taken at the time?

Firstly, it wasn't sunk with all hands.
It had been in the exclusion zone previously and had aborted an attack run with exocets.

Where ever it was it was a threat to the task force and its sinking almost certainly kept the rest of the Argie navy (including an aircraft carrier) in port.

It was a horrible thing to do, but war is war and if you're looking for blame, try Gen. Gailterai -no one forced him to invade.
As far as I'm concerned, I had friends and relations in the task force, and anything that made them safer (including the sinking of the Belgrano) was OK by me...

And appropriately it was sunk using World War 2 torpedo technology. This one act deterred the Argie navy from being more aggressive and removed a major threat to the task force. As I stated previously the Argie air force was the only part of their military that gave a good account of itself, particularly the A4 pilots. All kudos to them.
Galtieri didnt realise who he was messing with, especially as the captured British army contingent when they took Stanley was shown on worldwide television having to lie on the ground with their hands behind their heads, at riflepoint.
The war was justified, it also massively helped Maggies re-election and that was a good thing.

[Oscar]

[QUOTE=Oscar;1130530270]Poking fun?
Maybe if anyone could understand your gibberish we might find it really funny.

We were discussing your post where you put a swastika on a politician whose opinions you disagree with.
Not just moronic and childish, but fucking boring.[/QUOTE
I wouldn’t be using the pronoun "we " try "you "
also
you would have no chance , first you would have to pull ya head out of the sand.

second , and this is the hard part , ya might have to step out of your comfort zone

My "gibberish tends to be backed up with evidence , and ya know what I cant remember you EVER doing that . You have been told by quite a few people here and are synonymous and famous for "the ostrich syndrome " and/ or a rather conservative view.

Paula bennet,; I didnt put the swastika on the drawing , that was pulled off the internet , which would suggest to me, that others ( quite a few others ) might also disagree with Paulas opinions

Life is back to normal Oscar is being his normal self and I wasn’t in a parallel universe ... was worried there for a moment.

Stephen


Speaking of gibbersih, why don't you learn how to quote posts?

There were at least two people discussing the post, you and me. That makes a collective pronoun correct, i.e. "we" were discussing it.
You shouldn't enter into grammatical arguments, it just makes you look sillier than ever (if that's possible).

As for "evidence", what are you on about?
You posted some childish third form humour, and now you're yammering about evidence?
And you're saying that because you found it on the web, it must be true?:lol:
How old are you? 12?

[Usarka]

I was going to post something from Spitting Image but as everyone seems to be all serious found this instead.


Why not!
.......
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/k2DnW5uC1_A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Brian d marge]

[QUOTE=Brian d marge;1130530280]


Speaking of gibbersih, why don't you learn how to quote posts?

There were at least two people discussing the post, you and me. That makes a collective pronoun correct, i.e. "we" were discussing it.
You shouldn't enter into grammatical arguments, it just makes you look sillier than ever (if that's possible).

As for "evidence", what are you on about?
You posted some childish third form humour, and now you're yammering about evidence?
And you're saying that because you found it on the web, it must be true?:lol:
How old are you? 12?

no its you .period .

and so "I found it on the internet so it must be true "? High and mighty.... and you cant even read ! damn

I said" there is possibly some others who may also feel the same way about our dear Paula "

Mate I cant remember u posting ANYTHING of substance to back up your arguments, nothing.

Carry on , you are remaining true to form.

Stephen

btw , still pushing sh1t uphill in a fked economy . Hope ya like it it was all your doing! well done , have a kit kat , take a break

[Oscar]

no its you .period .

and so "I found it on the internet so it must be true "? High and mighty.... and you cant even read ! damn

I said" there is possibly some others who may also feel the same way about our dear Paula "

Mate I cant remember u posting ANYTHING of substance to back up your arguments, nothing.

Carry on , you are remaining true to form.

Stephen

btw , still pushing sh1t uphill in a fked economy . Hope ya like it it was all your doing! well done , have a kit kat , take a break

"All your doing?"

I'm glad you've found the culprit:lol:

Speaking of backing up arguments, would you like to select anything I've said and disprove it?
Whilst you're at it, could you explain why the fact that I found your post exceedingly silly requires me to prove anything?
Other than the fact that anyone who puts swastikas on politicians is childish and lacking any intelligent wit?

Oh, and could I go on the record to say I find Ms. Bennett loathsome in the extreme, an populist old style beneficiary basher, however comparing her to a Nazi is not really an argument (and basically shows a lack of functioning grey matter).

[oldrider]

Like her or not, it's goodbye to the politician who tried hardest to put the "Great" back into a snivelling (Great?) "Lost Britain"! :mellow:

IMHO I think she did a pretty good job of it too! :niceone: R.I.P. Maggie.

[Swoop]

And Maggie,over lunch one day, sunk a Cruiser with all hands, apparently tomake themgive it back" if I remember correctly. The sinking of the GenerealBelgrano by a British Sub.
Quite justified under the circumstances...

and its sinking almost certainly kept the rest of the Argie navy (including an aircraft carrier) in port.
The carrier was not "in port" but at sea, attempting to launch her air wing. Once the Belgrano developed an excessive amount of sea water internally, the Vincente de Mayo went straight back to port with her tail between her legs.

[Edbear]

Ten pages and still going! Factual accounts of history are interesting, just need to weed out the personal opinions from actuality.

[Oscar]

Quite justified under the circumstances...

The carrier was not "in port" but at sea, attempting to launch her air wing. Once the Belgrano developed an excessive amount of sea water internally, the Vincente de Mayo went straight back to port with her tail between her legs.

I did not know that.

She was originally HMS Venerable, built in 1945 and sold to the Dutch in 1948.
The Dutch sold her to the Argentine Navy in 1968.

[Ocean1]

Quite justified under the circumstances...

It was.

Did you spot the mangled quote?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UiDe6Hm5dtA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Damantis]

She served a corporate agenda to privatise the world. Good riddance to the Tory whore.

When people dance in the street on news of your death, you know you've overstepped the bounds of human decency.

[Damantis]

Having lived through Maggies reign as a young-un through most of my teens I witnessed first hand the misery of mass unemployment and actual hunger that was caused by that woman and her policies which affected us particularly badly in the North East of England. However, I do believe that the UK was well and truly fucked by what happened next....as Graywolf said......the open dor policy for immigration which has now in turn bred so much rascism in the UK. Theres a reason, rather many reasons why many of us left the UK and are still leaving. She certainly had courage and had bigger balls than a lot of male PM's but I still would not piss on her if she was on fire.........er.....

Here's a fitting Eulogy.


1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation
43. Covered up the Hillsborough disaster to protect the police.

[ellipsis]

... the fascist wanks on here will TRY and cut that to ribbons...

[98tls]

Bet Sir Robs glad to see her.:niceone:

[Zedder]

She served a corporate agenda to privatise the world. Good riddance to the Tory whore.

When people dance in the street on news of your death, you know you've overstepped the bounds of human decency.


I saw a news item tonight about a campaign to make the song, "Ding dong the witch is dead", number 1 on the UK music charts.

[BoristheBiter]

... the fascist wanks on here will TRY and cut that to ribbons...

Don't need to. She destroyed the unions and that in it's self would be enough to get a state funeral.

[98tls]

Don't need to. She destroyed the unions and that in it's self would be enough to get a state funeral.

If she didnt then it would ave been the countrys funeral not long after.

[Macontour]

So what?
And what did it matter what meal was being taken at the time?

Firstly, it wasn't sunk with all hands.
It had been in the exclusion zone previously and had aborted an attack run with exocets.

Where ever it was it was a threat to the task force and its sinking almost certainly kept the rest of the Argie navy (including an aircraft carrier) in port.

It was a horrible thing to do, but war is war and if you're looking for blame, try Gen. Gailterai -no one forced him to invade.
As far as I'm concerned, I had friends and relations in the task force, and anything that made them safer (including the sinking of the Belgrano) was OK by me...

I was just quoting best as I could remember, not having listened to the album for years. I was on the Poms side, remember watching it allon the TV and as a member of the Green Machine, that sort of thing interests me,especially how hard the Paras had to yomp to achieve their goals. I like the wholealbumand wasn't just singling out one part.

[ellipsis]

Don't need to. She destroyed the unions and that in it's self would be enough to get a state funeral.


...like I said, TRY...

[BoristheBiter]

If she didnt then it would ave been the countrys funeral not long after.

I wounder what the unwashed masses would say about her if she had?


...like I said, TRY...

Like I said no need to.

For some reason she was the type of person that you liked or hated, the savoir of England or the destoryer.
Everyone had their reasons, and being a hater now only shows that you (in the general sense) are yet to move forward and are stuck in the past.

[BoristheBiter]

Here's a fitting Eulogy.


1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation
43. Covered up the Hillsborough disaster to protect the police.

Bet yours isn't as long:bleh:

[ellipsis]

Like I said no need to.

For some reason she was the type of person that you liked or hated, the savoir of England or the destoryer.
Everyone had their reasons, and being a hater now only shows that you (in the general sense) are yet to move forward and are stuck in the past.[/QUOTE]

...like I said TRY... I'd rather be stuck in the past than stuck in the back...by a power hungry, shopkeepers daughter...class reactionary to a tee...

[Brian d marge]

"All your doing?"

I'm glad you've found the culprit:lol:

Speaking of backing up arguments, would you like to select anything I've said and disprove it?
Whilst you're at it, could you explain why the fact that I found your post exceedingly silly requires me to prove anything?
Other than the fact that anyone who puts swastikas on politicians is childish and lacking any intelligent wit?

Oh, and could I go on the record to say I find Ms. Bennett loathsome in the extreme, an populist old style beneficiary basher, however comparing her to a Nazi is not really an argument (and basically shows a lack of functioning grey matter).

1. ya haven’t said anything said anything ( worthwhile )
2. no you don’t have to prove anything ( as per ) others have already made that decision for you
3. There is a like between paula and those who caused the upset in Europe ( don’t try your head will explode )

finally , I’m not sure , and forgive me if I am wrong , but that last part looks like an opinion ( possibly the first you have had ) and almost a good one at that !

Congrats

Stephen

[BoristheBiter]

Like I said no need to.

For some reason she was the type of person that you liked or hated, the savoir of England or the destoryer.
Everyone had their reasons, and being a hater now only shows that you (in the general sense) are yet to move forward and are stuck in the past.

...like I said TRY... I'd rather be stuck in the past than stuck in the back...by a power hungry, shopkeepers daughter...class reactionary to a tee...[/QUOTE]

Class reactionary?? could you please explain that?

[Berries]

Everyone had their reasons, and being a hater now only shows that you (in the general sense) are yet to move forward and are stuck in the past.
I imagine most people moved on, certainly those of us who jumped ship from the sinking UK and ended up here. It is not her death that brings it back to light, it is all this rah rah rah bollocks from people who possibly didn't see all the negative affects her policies resulted in. They certainly didn't live them.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/slmb4ZZ5pkY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jonbuoy]

She was no saint but she did have balls and managed to sort out the huge mess the Labour government landed them with. It's a familiar pattern Labour spend until the countries near broke, make ridiculous PC laws. Tories step in make huge cuts get the country back on track but concentrate on keeping the best deals for their Oxford and Eaton chums.

[BoristheBiter]

She was no saint but she did have balls and managed to sort out the huge mess the Labour government landed them with. It's a familiar pattern Labour spend until the countries near broke, make ridiculous PC laws. Tories step in make huge cuts get the country back on track but concentrate on keeping the best deals for their Oxford and Eaton chums.

And that is politics world wide, each look after there own.

[BoristheBiter]

I imagine most people moved on, certainly those of us who jumped ship from the sinking UK and ended up here. It is not her death that brings it back to light, it is all this rah rah rah bollocks from people who possibly didn't see all the negative affects her policies resulted in. They certainly didn't live them.


Well that's just because most like to see the good in people and are willing to forget the past especially why someone dies.
And you forget about the people the were better off from her policies.

Now I wonder what the funeral will be like for Tony Blair?

[jonbuoy]

And that is politics world wide, each look after there own.

Yup generally politics is about getting and staying in power- nothing to do wth doing the right thing for the country and its people as a whole - long term. Its all short term " in my lifetime gain". What politician is going to stand up and say the best thing for the country is to take some unpleasant medicine for the next 100 years and pay off its debts?

[PrincessBandit]

Yup generally politics is about getting and staying in power- nothing to do wth doing the right thing for the country and its people as a whole - long term. Its all short term " in my lifetime gain". What politician is going to stand up and say the best thing for the country is to take some unpleasant medicine for the next 100 years and pay off its debts?

That sounds awfully close to home...

[Hinny]

Huh ??? What ??? leading NZ historian James belich

I think Belich can be more accurately referred to as the leading rewriter of New Zealand history.

[mashman]

She was no saint but she did have balls and managed to sort out the huge mess the Labour government landed them with. It's a familiar pattern Labour spend until the countries near broke, make ridiculous PC laws. Tories step in make huge cuts get the country back on track but concentrate on keeping the best deals for their Oxford and Eaton chums.

What is this huge mess that we keep hearing about, as I'm still yet to find any solid evidence that the UK was overly debt ridden in the 70's? I'd argue that the Conservative govt signing off decimalisation has a little something to do with the state of the country in the 70's. Also the recession that followed Maggie taking power. It does seem to be that when a recession is engineered, I mean occurs, that the Tory's end up in power. Given that it's the exact same people who are dealing with monetary policy, t'would seem a little odd that it generally happens come election time and miraculously followed by a right whinge win. Maggie was true to her right whinge form, sell it off as the market knows best... and when she tried to slip into libertarian territory she had "lost it" and was booted out. Political games that have fuck all to do with politics... non of them should be revered for doing as they're told.

[Oscar]

What is this huge mess that we keep hearing about, as I'm still yet to find any solid evidence that the UK was overly debt ridden in the 70's? I'd argue that the Conservative govt signing off decimalisation has a little something to do with the state of the country in the 70's. Also the recession that followed Maggie taking power. It does seem to be that when a recession is engineered, I mean occurs, that the Tory's end up in power. Given that it's the exact same people who are dealing with monetary policy, t'would seem a little odd that it generally happens come election time and miraculously followed by a right whinge win. Maggie was true to her right whinge form, sell it off as the market knows best... and when she tried to slip into libertarian territory she had "lost it" and was booted out. Political games that have fuck all to do with politics... non of them should be revered for doing as they're told.

More proof of your delusional state.

Do power cuts, four day weeks and constant strikes ring any bells in your addled melon?

[Brian d marge]

you might find that it might not have been the "mismanagement " of the country by those tree hugging hippies , but outside force such as the americans pumping dollars into the international economy , the Arabs getting pissed and raising the prices of oil , Also one of the largest stock crashes , repeated again in the late 70s. ( google , Breton woods , Nixon shock and 73 oil crisis , , great depression )
now go back and re-evaluate the decisions made by Labour and Mrs T

Stephen

[rapid van cleef]

Well said Berries. I remember as a kid being in a house with no food, power cuts, huge cues outside the dole office, riots accross several parts of the country, whole communities becoming destitute due to businesses closing down left right and centre and people go on about how great Maggie was. Did you live there and endure the hardship as a direct resut of her policies? It boils my piss!

[Ocean1]

Do power cuts, four day weeks and constant strikes ring any bells in your addled melon?

I was there when a couple of undercover reporters broke the story about British Leyland's Oxford factory nightshift's activities. The thing is nobody was surprised, getting pissed and sleeping on the job was accepted practice at pretty much every institution unions ruled. The cost was irrelevant, it was someone else's problem.

About then I was working a shift at a brewery in central London. The engineers' union delegate was a guy called Tommy B. Tommy was responsible for repairing the roll-on roll-off truck decks and he worked in a seperate workshop. He had a mate who did all the actual work because theoretically Tommy was always tied up doing union work. His workshop was the old brewery stable, and no company supervisors or managers were allowed in there because it was the oficial union office. I'd been there all of two weeks when I was told Tommy wanted to see me in his office. I's already been yelled at a few times for various productivity and demarcation transgressions, so I thought I was in the shit for good this time.

Tommy greeted me fairly warmly, (which was a relief), and told me he had an offer I'd struggle to refuse, (which wasn't). Tommy was the local fence, and his workshop was lined with lockers, full of stuff that'd fallen off the back of trucks. He had me in a spanking new Marks & Spencer suit, and was giving it the genuine cockney spiel in spite of the fact that the cuffs were around me elbows. I managed to talk my way out ot there eventually, and one of the sparkies told me he was connected to what was then left of the Kray boys empire.

The last time I saw Tommy was as I was clocking in one day. A couple of of guys had placed him gently at the bottom of the stairs, so that he could claim the injuries he had were from falling down at work, rather than as the result, (as I later heard) of the latest in a series of family squabbles. Fuck he was a mess.

That was how that world worked then, and union power was the means to that end. It was entertaining and I wouldn't have missed it for the world but it certainly wasn't sustainable. Sooner or later the cows had to come home to roost, and I guess Maggie was on the spot at the time, and that's about it.

[Grizzo]

Fuckin good riddance, bout time the old baby eating slag sucked the big one.

What a horrible example of a human being.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJh0m0E7Ozg&list=LLoSK3iMtWCqhqSQMplqKh-g&shuffle=449

[Usarka]

I saw a news item tonight about a campaign to make the song, "Ding dong the witch is dead", number 1 on the UK music charts.

http://www.empowernetwork.com/scoodor/files/2013/01/35lvc0.jpg

[mashman]

More proof of your delusional state.

Do power cuts, four day weeks and constant strikes ring any bells in your addled melon?

:yawn:

They do ring bells... more so under Tory rule.

[GrayWolf]

She served a corporate agenda to privatise the world. Good riddance to the Tory whore.

When people dance in the street on news of your death, you know you've overstepped the bounds of human decency.

Yes most of whom are either Scargill-ised fuckwits, or the children thereof......... Of course the likes of good old Scargill, who with the Union movement through the 60's and 70's did more to destroy their own Industries through bullshit destructive behaviour, (because we can) and promoted a belief, in politics to be able to Govern, you had to 'court favour' (bow down) with the Unions??
And dont tell me I have no fuckin clue what I'm talking about, my Father was involved in the coal industry then, and I remember the Orgreive coking plant bullshit and the 3 day week, (middle of winter of course)..
Where was Scargill's Humanity then? Of course He and his droogies weren't responsible for the strike, picket lines, and hypothermia of the elderly with no power? Not to mention Billions in lost production. He brought down one Govt, and even though as much as it was denied in the 80's, the coal industry was fucked,, over production, no profit, low prices, Union that was determined to keep it all going, which was only going to cost the country BILLIONS...... No Scargill met his match, and good fucking riddance to the Communist twat.... Didnt see Scargill starving did you? Never saw his face looking pinched, drawn, tired and malnourished?? Ever thought of that little factoid??

Maggie was no 'Saint' but at least she was up front, honest in her plans, said what she was going to do, and DID IT.....
Maybe she went to far, I would never disagree with that in the end..... Poll Tax etc... but her stand on Europe?? Look at the shit state the EEC is in now... Gonna tell me the 'Witch' was wrong?? Small minded people will never see the bigger picture.. that's why they are called the 'masses'....or sheeple...... because they never question the deeper reasons.... and why Polititians, and the likes of Scargill, or at worst example; Hitler, can manipulate words to lead them in the chosen direction. Baaaaaaaaa!!!!

[GrayWolf]

Well said Berries. I remember as a kid being in a house with no food, power cuts, huge cues outside the dole office, riots accross several parts of the country, whole communities becoming destitute due to businesses closing down left right and centre and people go on about how great Maggie was. Did you live there and endure the hardship as a direct resut of her policies? It boils my piss!

Yes I did, not as a kid but as a working, tax paying, business owning, house buying... obviously Tory scumbag in you eyes, son of a coal Industry Father, who as a kid REMEMBERS the Scargill driven miners strike of the early 70's where the elderly died of cold, industry lost Billions in production, Rolling nationwide power cuts, being in a freezing cold... (no thats a lie, may dad was in coal.. we had a coal fire ha fuckin ha!!!)
I remember whole communities, the whole country, suffering due to ARTHUR fuckin SCARGILL..........

it boils MY piss too!!!

[GrayWolf]

:yawn:

They do ring bells... more so under Tory rule.

yes a sad true fact, because Labour was almost 'owned' by the Unions. if you read up on the Wilson years, the unions hand was so far up his rectum pulling the strings, if he had smiled? you'd have seen the fingers behind his mouth.... usually the Tories took a stand, so the unions did their 'strike thing',, A 'la Orgreive, which toppled the Govt. (Tory)..........

[GrayWolf]

... the fascist wanks on here will TRY and cut that to ribbons...

and the Scargill Loving commie wanks on here will always bleat about anyone doing better than them, or wanting to cut their little apron strings as a 'Facist'.....

[mashman]

yes a sad true fact, because Labour was almost 'owned' by the Unions. if you read up on the Wilson years, the unions hand was so far up his rectum pulling the strings, if he had smiled? you'd have seen the fingers behind his mouth.... usually the Tories took a stand, so the unions did their 'strike thing',, A 'la Orgreive, which toppled the Govt. (Tory)..........

I have no doubt that unions in the wrong hands could cause more damage than good. Having said that, they served a function by protecting their workers. Unfortunately they became a part of short sighted Tory policy (not saying new labour are any better by the way) i.e. hammer the miners and import "cheaper" coal so that we can get better deals with our exports. Political bollocks to support the "free market" and global business community at the expense of those who had contributed to the UK up until that point in time. I remember watching that shit on TV, still young, but old enough to understand what it meant for the family's. Not long after that I was shipped off to the country and forgot all about it til Poll tax time. I guess we were damned if we did and damned if we didn't... although I wish we hadn't ruined the community's.

[BoristheBiter]

I have no doubt that unions in the wrong hands could cause more damage than good. Having said that, they served a function by protecting their workers. Unfortunately they became a part of short sighted Tory policy (not saying new labour are any better by the way) i.e. hammer the miners and import "cheaper" coal so that we can get better deals with our exports. Political bollocks to support the "free market" and global business community at the expense of those who had contributed to the UK up until that point in time. I remember watching that shit on TV, still young, but old enough to understand what it meant for the family's. Not long after that I was shipped off to the country and forgot all about it til Poll tax time. I guess we were damned if we did and damned if we didn't... although I wish we hadn't ruined the community's.

Yep as in past tense.

The unions are only it for themselves now (well they were then to) and will pray on anyone that is gullible enough to believe their bullshit.
Has has been said you never see a poor, or hungry, union rep.
Yes there is a place for unions, but the way it was is long gone.

"free market" ? some one has to pay for someone else, as in the high NZ is great for importers shit for exporters.
If you want cheaper something has to give or if you want all the perks someone has to pay for it. Something that a lot forget.

[mashman]

Yep as in past tense.

The unions are only it for themselves now (well they were then to) and will pray on anyone that is gullible enough to believe their bullshit.
Has has been said you never see a poor, or hungry, union rep.
Yes there is a place for unions, but the way it was is long gone.

"free market" ? some one has to pay for someone else, as in the high NZ is great for importers shit for exporters.
If you want cheaper something has to give or if you want all the perks someone has to pay for it. Something that a lot forget.

Fucksake :facepalm: and of course the govt are in it for us :facepalm:... at least the members of a union can hold their officials to account and will trry to protect their members. I'd rather have the unions ripping me off thanks. Maggie destroyed her competition, how very un-tory like... then again.

Good job the right whinge support a bottom up instead of a trickle down philosophy then. Coz it ain't the workers who get the perks. Something people conveniently ignore, amongst other things.

[BoristheBiter]

Fucksake :facepalm: and of course the govt are in it for us :facepalm:... at least the members of a union can hold their officials to account and will trry to protect their members. I'd rather have the unions ripping me off thanks. Maggie destroyed her competition, how very un-tory like... then again.

Good job the right whinge support a bottom up instead of a trickle down philosophy then. Coz it ain't the workers who get the perks. Something people conveniently ignore, amongst other things.

????? you get to hold to account the govt at election time just like unions. (something that maggie did three times) only difference is the unions are not transparent and cannot be held to account, If they fail at their job others suffer and they walk away knowing the still have a job.

But no perks aye you must be in the wrong union.

[mashman]

????? you get to hold to account the govt at election time just like unions. (something that maggie did three times) only difference is the unions are not transparent and cannot be held to account, If they fail at their job others suffer and they walk away knowing the still have a job.

But no perks aye you must be in the wrong union.

That's what I said, although unions will act on behalf of an employee against an employer where the govt shaft everyone equally.

Pah, I don't think the computer workers union ever existed in the UK. I think Oz had one. Last thing they'd need is for IT to strike. The world would grind to a halt.

[GrayWolf]

Fucksake :facepalm: and of course the govt are in it for us :facepalm:... at least the members of a union can hold their officials to account and will trry to protect their members. I'd rather have the unions ripping me off thanks. Maggie destroyed her competition, how very un-tory like... then again.

Good job the right whinge support a bottom up instead of a trickle down philosophy then. Coz it ain't the workers who get the perks. Something people conveniently ignore, amongst other things.

mate, when I left school in '74 I started an apprenticeship in a 'closed shop' Factory... Yes there was a time in the 20's-30's that the Union's truly did need the tactics they used, and the tactic's used by Bosses were often worse. However, after WW2, things started to change noticeably, they did get good working conditions, they did get reasonable wages, that is without question.... BUT if Industry CANNOT make a good profit? it stagnates due to lack of re-investment. And yes we saw that management can do just that (British bike Industry for example)..
However as I was 'young and stupid'? I went to few Union meetings at work.. the Rhetoric being spouted was,, 'keep ya foot on managements neck's.. Dont give the bastards an inch etc etc....... Now 39 years later I am a Union member again... it has benefits for my job in the event of an incident, that I will fully admit. However all those years have past,,, and do you know what/ the first 'Union called meting'? Yup, "keep ya foot on their necks (management) dont give the bastards an inch......... fuck me, how times have changed!!! NOT

[jonbuoy]

That's what I said, although unions will act on behalf of an employee against an employer where the govt shaft everyone equally.

Pah, I don't think the computer workers union ever existed in the UK. I think Oz had one. Last thing they'd need is for IT to strike. The world would grind to a halt.

Not so sure about that- instead of bouncing a dozen emails backwards and forwards we might remember to pick up the telephone and sort it out in a two minute conversation.

Anyone worked in a shipyard? You better make sure you don't undo a steel bolt - that's a fitters job, don't take down that wooden panel - that's a chippies job, don't cut that cable tie - that's a sparkies job your taking away. A day wasted to replace a unit which should have taken an hour tops.

[mashman]

mate, when I left school in '74 I started an apprenticeship in a 'closed shop' Factory... Yes there was a time in the 20's-30's that the Union's truly did need the tactics they used, and the tactic's used by Bosses were often worse. However, after WW2, things started to change noticeably, they did get good working conditions, they did get reasonable wages, that is without question.... BUT if Industry CANNOT make a good profit? it stagnates due to lack of re-investment. And yes we saw that management can do just that (British bike Industry for example)..
However as I was 'young and stupid'? I went to few Union meetings at work.. the Rhetoric being spouted was,, 'keep ya foot on managements neck's.. Dont give the bastards an inch etc etc....... Now 39 years later I am a Union member again... it has benefits for my job in the event of an incident, that I will fully admit. However all those years have past,,, and do you know what/ the first 'Union called meting'? Yup, "keep ya foot on their necks (management) dont give the bastards an inch......... fuck me, how times have changed!!! NOT

:rofl:... fighting fire with fire eh. One wants to keep jobs, the other wants to maximise profit... hmmmm, decisions decisions. Are we any better for not having the unions? I'm going for a no. Me maw was union rep at a place she worked and other than being a Tory, she was respected and did her job well for those who she represented. No doubt there were those in other places of work who had to play hardball against hard nosed employers. As ya say, time have changed :blink:


Not so sure about that- instead of bouncing a dozen emails backwards and forwards we might remember to pick up the telephone and sort it out in a two minute conversation.

Anyone worked in a shipyard? You better make sure you don't undo a steel bolt - that's a fitters job, don't take down that wooden panel - that's a chippies job, don't cut that cable tie - that's a sparkies job your taking away. A day wasted to replace a unit which should have taken an hour tops.

Or even talk to yer rep face to face. Doh, not so much any more.

The govt seems to be taking up that slack... after all you need to be licensed to scratch yer arse these days and they're all dying to tailor Uni course to what the workforce needs. Still though, employees are two a penny, cut them loose as and when and worse case scenario is that the ex-employee has money and takes it to court. Shame many don't and get discarded. Having said that though, short-term contracts do that job these days.

[Brian d marge]

I posted this in the "value of money " but on thinking it also applies here

Stephen
If you want some reading , this is a rough guide to what happened ( from my bookmarks and yes if you want me to summarise it I can )

please read from top to bottom. notice game theory at work , and it is still being used in our hospitals and government departments today!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggar_thy_neighbor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom ( game theory )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolationism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2...k_market_crash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2%80%931974_stock_market_crash)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation

Yes, the unions weren’t helping but in Britain’s class ridden structure they were probably the only chance ALSO , if you disenfranchise people through what ever means , you will get an " OH FK IT attitude " as seen here in NZ and that exactly what you got ... born and bred in the east end I am .

Britain , I think, needed money and opening up the financial markets was a quick and dirty method but that has only helped a few ;

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/05/uk-m17.html

I know its a commie web site but its close enough to show the point

Finally

Big mac index is used to compare price parity between american dollar and your local currency and shows if the currency is under or over valued


Stephen

[Brian d marge]

And I can also say

the NZ Meat workers union are a bunch of self serving back stabbing money grabbing , Holden commodore driving useless ,,,( you can fill in this space )

they are letting a whole lot of good people down , people that really do need their help

this is from first hand , behind the scenes knowledge

Stephen

[BoristheBiter]

:rofl:... fighting fire with fire eh. One wants to keep jobs, the other wants to maximise profit... hmmmm, decisions decisions. Are we any better for not having the unions? I'm going for a no. Me maw was union rep at a place she worked and other than being a Tory, she was respected and did her job well for those who she represented. No doubt there were those in other places of work who had to play hardball against hard nosed employers. As ya say, time have changed :blink:



Or even talk to yer rep face to face. Doh, not so much any more.

The govt seems to be taking up that slack... after all you need to be licensed to scratch yer arse these days and they're all dying to tailor Uni course to what the workforce needs. Still though, employees are two a penny, cut them loose as and when and worse case scenario is that the ex-employee has money and takes it to court. Shame many don't and get discarded. Having said that though, short-term contracts do that job these days.


And I can also say

the NZ Meat workers union are a bunch of self serving back stabbing money grabbing , Holden commodore driving useless ,,,( you can fill in this space )

they are letting a whole lot of good people down , people that really do need their help

this is from first hand , behind the scenes knowledge

Stephen

The problem with unions that most forget is that they are a business.
yes the might help the workers but you have to pay for them and when their numbers go down they put the subs up and every now and then they make noise so you think you need them.
But in the end they are the same as any other business.

[Robert Taylor]

Here's a fitting Eulogy.


1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation
43. Covered up the Hillsborough disaster to protect the police.

You forget one very important point . Maggie allowed Bobbi Sands and his fellow IRA hunger strikers ( guests of her majesty ) to starve to death. And just desserts that was for the murdering bastards.

So given that you painted things as so dire ( yes there was a lot of pain before things improved enormously ) why did the Tories win 4 straight elections in a row? Perhaps the populace at large didnt want to return to unsustainable Labour party policies? Eventually of course they did, back to a culture of unsustainable borrowing to fund grandiose social schemes. The economy was already overheating and Botchup Brown just kept borrowing more and failed to put the brakes on well before the current financial squeeze.

Why as an immigrant to the UK in 1981 ( 3 million unemployed )was I able to get a job, no problem?

[Swoop]

Millwall fans rioting, Maggie dividing the nation, nuclear war threatened...

And people say Britain isn't backward.

[Banditbandit]

The problem with unions that most forget is that they are a business.
yes the might help the workers but you have to pay for them and when their numbers go down they put the subs up and every now and then they make noise so you think you need them.
But in the end they are the same as any other business.

Yes ... Trotsky said that Man has dignity and Labour is not for hire ... Unions are part of the capitalist sytem because they accept that Labour is for hire - and are just arguing about the price ...

[Banditbandit]

????? you get to hold to account the govt at election time just like unions.

Bwhahahahaha ... how naive ...


And I can also say

the NZ Meat workers union are a bunch of self serving back stabbing money grabbing , Holden commodore driving useless ,,,( you can fill in this space )

they are letting a whole lot of good people down , people that really do need their help

this is from first hand , behind the scenes knowledge

Stephen

Yes. Exactly my experience fo the meatworkers union .. at one worksite the union head always got promoted after he served his time as union head and kept the workers under control ...

I pissed one off by forcing him to take action - action he dd not want to follow and which jeopardized hsi chance of gettign the coverted promottion ..

Fuck me .. I'm union branch chair at my current workplace ...

[MisterD]

Here's a fitting Eulogy.

2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry

False. She turned off unaffordable taxpayer support for uncompetitive twilight industries. Pre-Thatcher British Leyland was a laughing stock (sorry Indy, it's true) in the UK Thatcher created, Nissan's Sunderland plant is their best performing factory.



5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
Quite well, see above.


6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
Well justified fears, and as we can now see from the recent BNP experience, those votes' natural home appears to be the Labour party.


11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad

154 to be precise in her 11 years in power, which compares with the 211 closed under the Wilson government in 5 years.


14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
Yeah ok, you got me there. "Gradual" was a mistake.


15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
That's what those institutions are like. She at least made it possible for them to be in the UK generating foreign exchange income for the country, rather than being soley in places like HK.


16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
No, Churchill (being half American) did that. Thatcher just got on well with Reagan.


17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
Don't understand "Nato" do you?


19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
On the basis that it would unfairly impact the predominantly black workforce in SA, and she pushed the case for Mandela's release with de Klerk so hard he cancelled a planned press conference outside number 10

[BoristheBiter]

Bwhahahahaha ... how naive ...


.

please show me where that is wrong.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Fuck me .. I'm union branch chair at my current workplace ...

I'm sorry, but that is the worst pickup line I have ever heard.

[Brian d marge]

Millwall fans Maggie

And people say Britain isn't backward.

All mouth and trowsers them lot


The Firm is where its at

Stephen

ps, we won any games of late?

[mashman]

Not great at all – the Thatcher government’s economic record and legacy (http://www.primeeconomics.org/?p=1707)... paints a very different picture to the one the right whingers have swallowed... something our dear JK seems hell bent on emulating.

Oh, and Orcon has been sold off despite turning a consistent profit to a small ISP and "The price paid in the privatisation has not been disclosed".

[Banditbandit]

please show me where that is wrong.

You think that elections hold Governments to account ... that's pretty naive ...

[FJRider]

I'm sorry, but that is the worst pickup line I have ever heard.

Not if "The Red Banner" is a favorite tune you sing regularly. Or you're at a Union meeting ...

[Banditbandit]

Not if "The Red Banner" is a favorite tune you sing regularly. Or you're at a Union meeting ...

Bwhahaha .. I like Billy Bragg's version .. and yes, I play it regularly


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4b7cbI_MVI&playnext=1&list=PLFDF1FD193719402C&feature=results_main

[blue rider]

Not great at all – the Thatcher government’s economic record and legacy (http://www.primeeconomics.org/?p=1707)... paints a very different picture to the one the right whingers have swallowed... something our dear JK seems hell bent on emulating.

Oh, and Orcon has been sold off despite turning a consistent profit to a small ISP and "The price paid in the privatisation has not been disclosed".

she surely was no Francis Perkins....

Frances Perkins (born Fannie Coralie Perkins; April 10, 1880[1][2] – May 14, 1965) was the U.S. Secretary of Labor from 1933 to 1945, and the first woman appointed to the U.S. Cabinet. As a loyal supporter of her friend, Franklin D. Roosevelt, she helped pull the labor movement into the New Deal coalition. She and Interior Secretary Harold L. Ickes were the only original members of the Roosevelt cabinet to remain in office for his entire presidency.
During her term as Secretary of Labor, Perkins championed many aspects of the New Deal, including the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Public Works Administration and its successor the Federal Works Agency, and the labor portion of the National Industrial Recovery Act. With the Social Security Act she established unemployment benefits, pensions for the many uncovered elderly Americans, and welfare for the poorest Americans. She pushed to reduce workplace accidents and helped craft laws against child labor. Through the Fair Labor Standards Act, she established the first minimum wage and overtime laws for American workers, and defined the standard forty-hour work week. She formed governmental policy for working with labor unions and helped to alleviate strikes by way of the United States Conciliation Service, Perkins resisted having American women be drafted to serve the military in World War II so that they could enter the civilian workforce in greatly expanded numbers.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Perkins

If Thatcher would have been more like Frances Perkins in her actions, this threat would like somewhat different. As for the young ones 'rioting" ....a lot of those 'rioting' today will have seen their parents loose job, house and savings in the great change that were the Thatcher years in England....and such things can alter ones perceptions.

In every country there are way more poor, or soon to be poor people than rich or ueber rich people.....it seems that this always gets overlooked.

[BoristheBiter]

You think that elections hold Governments to account ... that's pretty naive ...

Different definition of "held to account" I feel.

[Brian d marge]

she surely was no Francis Perkins....

Frances Perkins (born Fannie Coralie Perkins; April 10, 1880[1][2] – May 14, 1965) was the U.S. Secretary of Labor from 1933 to 1945, and the first woman appointed to the U.S. Cabinet. As a loyal supporter of her friend, Franklin D. Roosevelt, she helped pull the labor movement into the New Deal coalition. She and Interior Secretary Harold L. Ickes were the only original members of the Roosevelt cabinet to remain in office for his entire presidency.
During her term as Secretary of Labor, Perkins championed many aspects of the New Deal, including the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Public Works Administration and its successor the Federal Works Agency, and the labor portion of the National Industrial Recovery Act. With the Social Security Act she established unemployment benefits, pensions for the many uncovered elderly Americans, and welfare for the poorest Americans. She pushed to reduce workplace accidents and helped craft laws against child labor. Through the Fair Labor Standards Act, she established the first minimum wage and overtime laws for American workers, and defined the standard forty-hour work week. She formed governmental policy for working with labor unions and helped to alleviate strikes by way of the United States Conciliation Service, Perkins resisted having American women be drafted to serve the military in World War II so that they could enter the civilian workforce in greatly expanded numbers.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Perkins




Thats right , wasnt the hoover dam created using work schemes , kinda like benmore ,,,

Hey kids I have an idea , lets privatise the hoover dam and sell its shares to the Chinese , that will reduce americas debt ......

oh wait , cant do that , its american

Stephen

actually china holds a lot of american debt !

[oldrider]

You think that elections hold Governments to account ... that's pretty naive ...

True!

Under MMP exactly ... politicians and parties are all interchangeable ... the so called policies promises etc change but the outcome always remains much the same!

Like Henry Ford's model T, any colour you like ... as long as it's black! :brick:

[Oscar]

True!

Under MMP exactly ... politicians and parties are all interchangeable ... the so called policies promises etc change but the outcome always remains much the same!

Like Henry Ford's model T, any colour you like ... as long as it's black! :brick:

That's a pretty dumb comment.
If you think politicians and parties are interchangable, you may want to enlighten us on the similarity between, say, Winston Peters and Mojo Mathers.
And if the outcome always remains the same, where did MMP come from?

[Banditbandit]

And if the outcome always remains the same, where did MMP come from?

That was forced by the voters ... the Politicians, in the main, did not want it ... National and Labour were shaping up to oppose MMP - a joint effort ... until they saw what the people were thinking ... then they just sat back .. 'cause they didn't want to support it but did not want to be seen opposing MMP



you may want to enlighten us on the similarity between, say, Winston Peters and Mojo Mathers.


I'd definitely kick Winston Peters out of bed ...

[Usarka]

I'd definitely kick Winston Peters out of bed ...

I'd tell them both to get out! :whistle:

[Banditbandit]

I'd tell them both to get out! :whistle:

I'm not that definite - you just never know with plain women ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_0afWepgRI

[BoristheBiter]

That was forced by the voters ... the Politicians, in the main, did not want it ... National and Labour were shaping up to oppose MMP - a joint effort ... until they saw what the people were thinking ... then they just sat back .. 'cause they didn't want to support it but did not want to be seen opposing MMP


Hang on, forced by the voters? that sound like they were held to account to me.

and I wouldn't have let either into my bed.

[Brian d marge]

Winston peters does have a very good point though

New Zealand FIRST

Unlike the rest , New Zealand for sale

Stephen
No , I'm a labour , green , tree fornicator

[BoristheBiter]

Winston peters does have a very good point though

New Zealand FIRST

Unlike the rest , New Zealand for sale

Stephen
No , I'm a labour , green , tree fornicator

:facepalm: because "Winston first" didn't instill a lot of confidence. the guys has changed side more times than Italy.

[Oscar]

That was forced by the voters ... the Politicians, in the main, did not want it ... National and Labour were shaping up to oppose MMP - a joint effort ... until they saw what the people were thinking ... then they just sat back .. 'cause they didn't want to support it but did not want to be seen opposing MMP






Doesn't that contradict what you said about elections not making a difference?

[oldrider]

1) That's a pretty dumb comment.

2) If you think politicians and parties are interchangable, you may want to enlighten us on the similarity between, say, Winston Peters and Mojo Mathers.

3)And if the outcome always remains the same, where did MMP come from?

If you don't understand the answer to 3 you will always experience difficulty with understanding 1 and 2. :facepalm:

[Oscar]

If you don't understand the answer to 3 you will always experience difficulty with understanding 1 and 2. :facepalm:

So enlighten us then, oh (old) wise one: why is there no difference between Mojo Mathers and Winnie?
Is it because you given up trying to understand what's going on around you?

[oldrider]

So enlighten us then, oh (old) wise one: why is there no difference between Mojo Mathers and Winnie?
Is it because you given up trying to understand what's going on around you?

Chuckle chuckle, I thought your attack might be a little more vitriolic than that ... I got lost going to MacDonald's yesterday, what does that tell you? :weird::lol:

[Brian d marge]

:facepalm: because "Winston first" didn't instill a lot of confidence. the guys has changed side more times than Italy.
No u`re right, new Zealand first sounds better
Old Chinese proverb , something about $2 and lots of fun, or was it, about a tree bending in the wind
Must hand it to the fella he's a stayer, I mean donkey is out on his ear soon , but Winnie will still be feeding from the state coffers :-)
Stephen

[Robert Taylor]

For avid Thatcher enthusiasts her new book ''Not for turning'' ( which wasnt to be released until after her death ) is now available for pre-ordering.

[BoristheBiter]

No u`re right, new Zealand first sounds better
Old Chinese proverb , something about $2 and lots of fun, or was it, about a tree bending in the wind
Must hand it to the fella he's a stayer, I mean donkey is out on his ear soon , but Winnie will still be feeding from the state coffers :-)
Stephen

Yep NZ first is the way it should be, but it doesn't go down to well with the rest of our trading partners.
And listening to Winston is like listening to Pope Brian just a oily little man.

the difference between Winston and John is when john leaves he will use his own money, Winston, like labour and the greens, will be sucking on the government tit til the day they die. (and blame the Nats for it)

[pete376403]

Key will be still getting the Govt superannuation (IIRC its automatic after three terms.)
It will probably be the equivalent of money down the back of the couch for him.

[Oscar]

Key will be still getting the Govt superannuation (IIRC its automatic after three terms.)
It will probably be the equivalent of money down the back of the couch for him.

Why would he take the super if he doesn't take his salary?

[Oscar]

Chuckle chuckle, I thought your attack might be a little more vitriolic than that ... I got lost going to MacDonald's yesterday, what does that tell you? :weird::lol:

That you are more astute than most of those that have posted on this thread?

[Banditbandit]

Why would he take the super if he doesn't take his salary?

You can't turn down the super ... it's not a voluntary thing ...

[oldrider]

That you are more astute than most of those that have posted on this thread?

Hmmmmm very clever, which ever way I take that I'm screwed! :lol:

[BoristheBiter]

You can't turn down the super ... it's not a voluntary thing ...

Actually it is. You have to apply for it and if you don't meet some conditions it will be cut/stopped.

[MisterD]

you may want to enlighten us on the similarity between, say, Winston Peters and Mojo Mathers.

Both muppets who owe their place at the trough to a tiny section of electorate that we'd disown if we were realted to them?


That was forced by the voters ... the Politicians, in the main, did not want it ... National and Labour were shaping up to oppose MMP - a joint effort ... until

Until they thought a bit harder and realised what a complete politicians' stitch-up the system really. It's perfect from their point of view, sheeple think they're getting more power when it reality it's the complete opposite.

Vote for a bunch of politicians, and then find out what policies are actually going to be enacted. Brilliant!

[BoristheBiter]

Until they thought a bit harder and realised what a complete politicians' stitch-up the system really. It's perfect from their point of view, sheeple think they're getting more power when it reality it's the complete opposite.

Vote for a bunch of politicians, and then find out what policies are actually going to be enacted. Brilliant!

And then hold a referendum and only have one choice.

[Usarka]

Haha, there was a petition that her funeral should have been privatised.

Spot on!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/22/privatising-thatchers-funeral-fitting-tribute-legacy

[Robert Taylor]

Haha, there was a petition that her funeral should have been privatised.

Spot on!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/22/privatising-thatchers-funeral-fitting-tribute-legacy

Coming from the Guardian ( a left leaning newspaper not even good enough for toilet paper) that is of course what you'd expect.

Its also worth mentioning that Harold Wilson ( a two time Labour priminister ) closed down more coalmines during his two tenures than did Maggie. Where is the vilification against his name? Even he recognised it was a twilight industry that was becoming economically unviable.

For me Maggie is second only to God and I will always have fond memories of her. And God is an Anglican.

[Hinny]

For me Maggie is second only to God and I will always have fond memories of her. And God is an Anglican.

and John Key and his Govt. are working for the good of the NZ people.

FW's rule.:headbang:

[Oscar]

and John Key and his Govt. are working for the good of the NZ people.

FW's rule.:headbang:

He's working for the good of me.
Lefto hippies like you can get bent...

[Hinny]

He's working for the good of me.
Lefto hippies like you can get bent...

You definitely are a curmudgeon in a state of denial.
This govt. will go down in the anals of history as one of the worst we have ever endured.
Jonkey will be as hated in the future as Thatcher was... and for many of the same reasons.
They are on track to create even more havoc than Muldoon and his bunch of misguided mates.
He was another who chose to ignore the facts and economic realities.
Not one of his Think Big projects had a forecast positive net present value and yet they forged ahead; with disastrous consequences.
This govt is aparently bereft of any moral compass and are hell bent on destroying the heritage and autonomy of this country.

[BoristheBiter]

You definitely are a curmudgeon in a state of denial.
This govt. will go down in the anals of history as one of the worst we have ever endured.
Jonkey will be as hated in the future as Thatcher was... and for many of the same reasons.
They are on track to create even more havoc than Muldoon and his bunch of misguided mates.
He was another who chose to ignore the facts and economic realities.
Not one of his Think Big projects had a forecast positive net present value and yet they forged ahead; with disastrous consequences.
This govt is aparently bereft of any moral compass and are hell bent on destroying the heritage and autonomy of this country.

Sorry just plainly disagree, guess we just look at thing differently, which is about right as I look at the Helen led Labour term as the worst we have had to endure (in my life time)

But we bitched and moaned, stomped our feet, even stormed Parliament (well went stood on the steps) and we have endured as we will continue to do so as we are not as bad off as a lot would like us to believe.

[mashman]

According to this almost half of the country are living pay to pay. (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/almost-half-nz-lives-pay-015721199.html;_ylt=AvkAsbL0paUbazj7lWUC3xFSK5NG;_ ylu=X3oDMTRnMm5taTdrBG1pdANUb3BTdG9yeSBQaG90byBOZX dzRlAgTUQEcGtnAzlmNDI5OTI5LWYzZGEtM2ZkMy1iNTBlLTM5 MDFlOGZmYjRmNARwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFCTGlzdE1peGVkTF BDQVRlbXAEdmVyA2IzOTVhMTcwLWFjODItMTFlMi1iZGVmLTIx NzY4Yzc3YjQzZQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTFkajFqYTg2BGludGwDbnoEbGFuZwNlbi1uegRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3BtaA--;_ylv=3)... I wouldn't exactly call them well off. All govts, including this one, have their share of the "blame" to take for that scenario.

[blue rider]

He's working for the good of me.
Lefto hippies like you can get bent...

May i ask what you do for a living? What type of business do you run?

[BoristheBiter]

According to this almost half of the country are living pay to pay. (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/almost-half-nz-lives-pay-015721199.html;_ylt=AvkAsbL0paUbazj7lWUC3xFSK5NG;_ ylu=X3oDMTRnMm5taTdrBG1pdANUb3BTdG9yeSBQaG90byBOZX dzRlAgTUQEcGtnAzlmNDI5OTI5LWYzZGEtM2ZkMy1iNTBlLTM5 MDFlOGZmYjRmNARwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFCTGlzdE1peGVkTF BDQVRlbXAEdmVyA2IzOTVhMTcwLWFjODItMTFlMi1iZGVmLTIx NzY4Yzc3YjQzZQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTFkajFqYTg2BGludGwDbnoEbGFuZwNlbi1uegRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3BtaA--;_ylv=3)... I wouldn't exactly call them well off. All govts, including this one, have their share of the "blame" to take for that scenario.

But what are they paying for.
Funny how they all cry poverty but all have sky, drink and smoke, have pointlessly expensive cars (not only to buy but to run) and the latest clothes.

(yes I am horrendously generalizing)

[BoristheBiter]

May i ask what you do for a living? What type of business do you run?

Why does it matter what job he does?

[Oscar]

May i ask what you do for a living? What type of business do you run?

I am in the business of baiting hippies and pinkos.
And business is good.

[blue rider]

But what are they paying for.
Funny how they all cry poverty but all have sky, drink and smoke, have pointlessly expensive cars (not only to buy but to run) and the latest clothes.

(yes I am horrendously generalizing)


Cable TV in most European countries are available in each house when renting (renting is the standard default in pretty much all european countries)....(i was much suprised in Holland to find I had cable without any extra charges and that was in 1999).
Clothes can be found easily in second hand stores, thrift shops, charity shops, and car booth sales.

Expensive Cars......what makes a car expensive? Buy a new car that is cheap to run, or buy a cheap car that cost an arm or a leg to run.


If I horrendously generalize about you ....i come to the conclusion that you must be of a lazy mind to just simply generalize how poor people are the answer and the reason as to why we are in this fucked up society.

[mashman]

But what are they paying for.
Funny how they all cry poverty but all have sky, drink and smoke, have pointlessly expensive cars (not only to buy but to run) and the latest clothes.

(yes I am horrendously generalizing)

So advertising works?
Some people want to live whilst they're alive. I understand that. Why save for a future that may never come? If you have enough money to save that is.

[blue rider]

I am in the business of baiting hippies and pinkos.
And business is good.

yes dear


http://speckstein.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/0412.jpg

[Oscar]

yes dear


Your Mother?

[mashman]

Your Mother?

Obviously your portrait.