Parking in Auckland's council-owned carparks

[Floppy disk]

So as often, I had to go to Auckland CBD for some matter and as always I took my bike there :ride:. I always prefer to park indoor as the weather is not always great :cold: and it is parked away from accidents and “accidents” . So my usual place to park is Victoria Street Carpark in the corner of Victoria Street and Kitchener Street. Parking for bikes and motorcycles is free there just like every other Council-owned carpark, which is great! :Punk: There is even a designated area for bikes but you can park virtually in every corner where you don’t block cars, or peds, or wheelchairs.

After I parked my bike and as I was walking out I noticed a parking warden printing a ticket for a bike in that designated area. :eek5: The bike was virtually brand new as everything was still sparkling, fat-free, and the look was fresh and original. So I asked the warden what on earth he was doing :nono:, and he told me that the bike did not display WOF and REGO stickers :crazy:. So I told him that it was not running but actually parked inside a building:facepalm:, and his answer was that when you are in a council-owned carpark, it is actually considered as a road, and you must have your vehicle sorted in that way. :tugger:

I find that strange because I know he would not go around loosening those tight screws to move sticker holders and be able to check the registration and/or the WOF :weird:. That bike was fined for the lack of displaying, not for an expired REGO or WOF. So there you are. You’ve been warned. A council carpark is just like the road..:baby:

[Gremlin]

Welcome to uh... the law. There are fines for not displaying, even if they are up to date.

Have a read of a thread <_<

www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/156363-Infringement-notice-Not-displaying-rego-in-prescribed-manner-(in-wallet)

[baffa]

You can write in and get off the fine if your wof/rego was current, or you do what I did and tell them the reason you were parked there was to go to the post office to get a new rego :laugh:

But yeah, welcome to the law.

[Floppy disk]

Well.. 1st it's a bylaw, not a law, that the car park is considered as a road. 2nd, my problem is not that one must display the WOF and REGO. My problem is that the bike was resting is in a building. What's the WOF for? Warranty of Fitness in how it get parked? Would you get fined if your bike is sitting at a friend's house with an expired WOF? :oi-grr: And the worse thing is that in private carparks, e.g. Wilson carparks, you won't get the fine, and that's again what the parking warden told me:argue:. The council is therefore imposing the fine as owners of the car park, not as application of the bylaw..:tugger:

[steve_t]

Unfortunately, it's a bylaw that says "accept it or park elsewhere"

[Marmoot]

If it is considered a road, why do cars have to pay to go through it?
Unless if it is a toll road. Is it a toll road?

[Akzle]

Well.. 1st it's a bylaw, not a law, that the car park is considered as a road. 2nd, my problem is not that one must display the WOF and REGO. My problem is that the bike was resting is in a building. What's the WOF for? Warranty of Fitness in how it get parked? Would you get fined if your bike is sitting at a friend's house with an expired WOF? :oi-grr: And the worse thing is that in private carparks, e.g. Wilson carparks, you won't get the fine, and that's again what the parking warden told me:argue:. The council is therefore imposing the fine as owners of the car park, not as application of the bylaw..:tugger:

no the fuck it isnt sunshine. A 'road' by crown legislation is ANYWHERE the public have acces, whether by right or not. Its as 'law' as law gets.

[Floppy disk]

no the fuck it isnt sunshine. A 'road' by crown legislation is ANYWHERE the public have acces, whether by right or not. Its as 'law' as law gets.

Well, could you tell me why you would not get fined for not having your Rego and WOF displayed in a privately owned public car park like a Wilson or Secure car park? How is it a low when it only applies to Council-owned public car parks? Do you even know what the difference is between a law and a bylaw?:spanking:

[Akzle]

Well, could you tell me why you would not get fined for not having your Rego and WOF displayed in a privately owned public car park like a Wilson or Secure car park? How is it a low when it only applies to Council-owned public car parks? Do you even know what the difference is between a law and a bylaw?:spanking:

yes. One starts with B, the other with L.
Wilson et al have a) gates to prevent unauthorised access, b) private property with no implied right of access.
Go get the land transport act, the interpretation act and tell me the definition of road. Go on. Ill wait.

Then tell me whether theyre 'law' or 'bylaw'...

[Jezxa]

Aklze is right, if the public have access to it, its a road according to the Land Transport Act.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/what-is-a-road/what-is-a-road.html

Statutory definitions of 'road'
'A place to which the public have access, whether as of right or not'.

[swbarnett]

Wilson et al have a) gates to prevent unauthorised access,
So do the council carparks.


b) private property with no implied right of access.
Irrellevant. As you have stated in a previous post:


whether by right or not.

[Erelyes]

My god. It's like the fucking bike just appeared there without someone having ridden it on a road without displaying WOF/Reg.

In one hand you're happy as a clam that they give you free parking, on the other hand you're calling them out for ticketing people who don't play by the rules. :weird:

If only the parking officer could have given you a ticket for being a nosy parker.

And of course you won't get a ticket in Wilsons cos (surprise) parking officers aren't allowed to enforce anything on privately owned property (which is what Wilsons carparks sit on)

[FJRider]

Well, could you tell me why you would not get fined for not having your Rego and WOF displayed in a privately owned public car park like a Wilson or Secure car park?

It's under "Conditions of parking" ... privately owned parking companies have the right to decide which conditions they apply/enforce in their business. If they choose to apply the "display of Reg & WoF" requirement ... that would be their choice.

Council policy is to enforce that requirement for ALL vehicles in Council owned/managed properties.

[Floppy disk]

It's under "Conditions of parking" ... privately owned parking companies have the right to decide which conditions they apply/enforce in their business. If they choose to apply the "display of Reg & WoF" requirement ... that would be their choice.

Council policy is to enforce that requirement for ALL vehicles in Council owned/managed properties.

You are correct :niceone:. This is the Council policy as OWNERS of the car park and you would think they are entitled to put any rule they wish as long as it does not breach the existing laws and bylaws including making sure people are aware of it, BUT:

1- The parking warden is not allowed to give you a ticket if your car or motorbike is infringing the WOF of REGO regulations while parked in a privately-owned public car park, even if the car park owner asks them to. That is because it is a private property. You can get towed away, but not given a ticket for lack of WOF. That means the council have the “exclusive privilege” to use their parking warden in the public carparks they own, just because they are the council. :apumpin:

2- There is absolutely nothing that says the car park is under special regulations, so a biker or car driver are unaware that by entering this seemingly normal public car park they are subject to special regulations. I mean, it was pure luck that I saw the warden giving a ticket to a bike. What else am I missing? How safe am I that they don’t fine me for something specific to their public car parks? What if it is in their “regulations” that the bike tail must not face the wall or that I must not use the mobile while the engine of my bike is warming up, or anything stupid like this? Even if you wanted to avoid carparks that are Council owned/managed, how would you identify them? No way! So it’s a trap! :tugger:

Anyway, I thought I let people know that a bike parked inside a public carpark is not safe from fines if that carpark is owned by the council, because I am sure there are few like me who have been riding for years in Auckland and never thought about these “special regulations”. :drinkup:

[Floppy disk]

My god. It's like the fucking bike just appeared there without someone having ridden it on a road without displaying WOF/Reg.

In one hand you're happy as a clam that they give you free parking, on the other hand you're calling them out for ticketing people who don't play by the rules. :weird:

If only the parking officer could have given you a ticket for being a nosy parker.

And of course you won't get a ticket in Wilsons cos (surprise) parking officers aren't allowed to enforce anything on privately owned property (which is what Wilsons carparks sit on)

LoL. Easy brother! But you are right, maybe there is a rule about fining nosy parkers in a Council-owned carpark :dodge:

But you can’t fine someone based on assumptions. The owner was not riding the bike so there are million legal reasons how it would have ended up there, just like your car with expired WOF would have ended up in your garage. Maybe they just bought it, got it delivered and they are in the process of getting the papers ready, and they thought the best place is to keep it “off the road” until it is regulated :weird:. And it might be great to have covered free parking, but the “rules” seem to be hidden and twisted, so good luck finding them. Even if you were aware you can get tickets in council-owned carparks, you can’t even know if this is a council-owned carpark. That parking warden and the council "regulations" are fishing on that :tugger:

All right! Off I go for a ride. Take it easy!

[FJRider]

You are correct :niceone:. This is the Council policy as OWNERS of the car park and you would think they are entitled to put any rule they wish as long as it does not breach the existing laws and bylaws including making sure people are aware of it, BUT:

:

No buts about it. Those companies leasing Council property are entitled to set the rules of parking to how they choose. They have their own staff to enforce their policies and rules.
Public parking issues have been well discussed in these forums (Enter parking buildings and click SEARCH)

Ignorance of laws ... or private parking conditions ... are no defense if you are caught breaking them.

Welcome to the real world by the way ... but if it's any consolation ... I have never had any car park building issues here in Paradise. EVER.

[Floppy disk]

No buts about it. Those companies leasing Council property are entitled to set the rules of parking to how they choose. They have their own staff to enforce their policies and rules.
Public parking issues have been well discussed in these forums (Enter parking buildings and click SEARCH)

Ignorance of laws ... or private parking conditions ... are no defense if you are caught breaking them.

Welcome to the real world by the way ... but if it's any consolation ... I have never had any car park building issues here in Paradise. EVER.

Your reply is just rethoric bla bla, skiving answering the points of my comment. I never got a fine either in years of riding, but that means nothing. That's me done on this thread then.

[FJRider]

Your reply is just rethoric bla bla, skiving answering the points of my comment. I never got a fine either in years of riding, but that means nothing. That's me done on this thread then.

Your comments have no point. Experienced rider/drivers can get parking tickets. Such are the joys that people in big cities enjoy.

Should you get a parking ticket ... take it to Fair Go. Because as sure as shit ... few on this site will care. It will give us a laugh though.

Your woes expressed in this thread must have amused a few though. I'm not sure if it's your ignorance, arrogance,or stupidity ... but good luck with the no parking tickets ... and long may it continue.

[Akzle]

So do the council carparks.

Irrellevant. As you have stated in a previous post:

council "represents the people" so they're (managing on behalf of teh peoples) public, not private property. private property law trumps land transport law, which is why i can't drive my truck across your lawn, just because you forgot to close the gate.


never thought about these “special regulations”. :drinkup: there's nothing special about them, just your "special" outlook on life. it's "the law" it' there for you to read, you asked a policy enforcer and he told you, now we've all told you.
learned anything yet?


But you can’t fine someone based on assumptions.

Even if you were aware you can get tickets in council-owned carparks, you can’t even know if this is a council-owned carpark. That parking warden and the council "regulations" are fishing on that :tugger:

1) (at "law") ignorance of the law is no excuse, refer crimes act.

2) people get fined all the time based on assumptions. the assumption that the police have any authority, the assumption that you're "not allowed" to travel over 100km/h, the assumption that "i've only had a few and i'm alright to drive"

sorry to break your heart, but you can and will be fined based on assumptions.

3) refer 1), it's your job to know, and if you don't know, you get fined.


No buts about it. Those companies leasing Council property are entitled to set the rules of parking to how they choose. They have their own staff to enforce their policies and rules.
Public parking issues have been well discussed in these forums (Enter parking buildings and click SEARCH)

Ignorance of laws ... or private parking conditions ... are no defense if you are caught breaking them.

Welcome to the real world by the way ... but if it's any consolation ... I have never had any car park building issues here in Paradise. EVER.

+1

well, there are only four parking spaces in the village... and the local bob lives 200 mile away.

[FJRider]

council "represents the people" so they're (managing on behalf of teh peoples) public, not private property. private property law trumps land transport law, which is why i can't drive my truck across your lawn, just because you forgot to close the gate.

Actually ... as far as private property goes ... it may surprise you just where you can go when the gates are open. And how much you can do before laws are broken. And how much they have to do (legally) to get you back out that gate ...


+1

well, there are only four parking spaces in the village... and the local bob lives 200 mile away.

We have a half dozen 30 minute parking spaces here in Paradise village. But no parking wardens. Which is good .. because I don't wear a watch.

[Akzle]

Actually ... as far as private property goes ... it may surprise you just where you can go when the gates are open. And how much you can do before laws are broken. And how much they have to do (legally) to get you back out that gate ...

a few .303s through the windshield normally slows trespassers down...

they can effect a legal tresspass by telling you to fuck off, then you're a trespasser, then you can be shot.

[FJRider]

a few .303s through the windshield normally slows trespassers down...

they can effect a legal tresspass by telling you to fuck off, then you're a trespasser, then you can be shot.

Easier to just shut/lock the gate. Then let the dog/bull/wife out.

Saves on ammo ..

[Akzle]

Then let the ... wife out.

that's cruel and unusual punishment and probably against the geneva code.

but hey. cops get HP 9mm... so NZ hasn't quite caught up with it yet.

[FJRider]

that's cruel and unusual punishment and probably against the geneva code.

but hey. cops get HP 9mm... so NZ hasn't quite caught up with it yet.

The wife will be happy to get out of the kitchen ...

[Erelyes]

But you can’t fine someone based on assumptions. The owner was not riding the bike so there are million legal reasons how it would have ended up there, just like your car with expired WOF would have ended up in your garage. Maybe they just bought it, got it delivered and they are in the process of getting the papers ready, and they thought the best place is to keep it “off the road” until it is regulated :weird:. And it might be great to have covered free parking, but the “rules” seem to be hidden and twisted, so good luck finding them. Even if you were aware you can get tickets in council-owned carparks, you can’t even know if this is a council-owned carpark. That parking warden and the council "regulations" are fishing on that :tugger:

All right! Off I go for a ride. Take it easy!


1. You can know if it's a council-owned carpark. Look up the council website. Even if their parking enforcement area doesn't tell you, you can look up the address in the rates database to see who owns it!

2. If the ticket is from a private company (Wilsons or whatever) it is a civil matter in which it's a civil matter (most private companies like will wear fluro vests, silver helmets and the same big scoots that the council parking officers use, to give the illusion of authority)

3. Road includes - (d)a place to which the public have access, whether as of right or not; (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM302197.html)

4. Let's say hypothetically you got the bike 'delivered' there, in the process of unloading the bike you commenced to 'operate' it on the road (see road user rule above for just what can be considered 'operating'), hence you committed an infringement

Twisted maybe, but just how are the rules hidden? Seem pretty easy to find to me :)

Enjoy your ride!