Nice little earner, says Peter Dunne

[bluninja]

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/16895844/dunne-accuses-police-of-camera-cash-grab/

From the article..."I think what all this subterfuge is about is police having a nice little earner,"

Even the pollies are saying what most people having been saying for a while. Mind you he did get 2 fines recently :) Having said that, why is Peter upset?
He is the minister for revenue gathering and the cameras brought in $50 million in revenues from last year.

Saw a van this afternoon set up at the end of a long straight overtaking lane. Van set back over the slight crest and behind a large grass bank so you can't see it till it's too late. I don't remember any accidents on that particular piece of road in the last few years, so they can't be pinging people at or near an accident hotspot so to me it's just blatant revenue gathering. I mean you don't even get points, just pay the money and keep on speeding if your wallets fat enough :bleh:

[BMWST?]

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/16895844/dunne-accuses-police-of-camera-cash-grab/

From the article..."I think what all this subterfuge is about is police having a nice little earner,"

Even the pollies are saying what most people having been saying for a while. Mind you he did get 2 fines recently :) Having said that, why is Peter upset?
He is the minister for revenue gathering and the cameras brought in $50 million in revenues from last year.

Saw a van this afternoon set up at the end of a long straight overtaking lane. Van set back over the slight crest and behind a large grass bank so you can't see it till it's too late. I don't remember any accidents on that particular piece of road in the last few years, so they can't be pinging people at or near an accident hotspot so to me it's just blatant revenue gathering. I mean you don't even get points, just pay the money and keep on speeding if your wallets fat enough :bleh:


it is revenue gatherin,there is a little bay for a van on the southbound SH2 just North Of Lower Hutt station.Its a 4 lane motorway divided with a barrier two lanes each way....dangerous?Would one of the least dangerous bit of raod in the country.Why put a speed camera there....easy cos people speed there

[Wingnut]

It scares me to think idiots like Peter Dunn are still able to get into Parliament. I blame the bloody older generation of conservative Christians.

I just plain ignore anything that muppet has to say...

[rastuscat]

Sorry, usual response.

Its amazing how many vehicles go past speed cameras each day and don't get their photos taken.

I suspect it's related to the fact that they don't exceed the speed limit plus the tolerance.

Simple ideas, almost always the best.

[buggerit]

I see they are talking about bringing in point to point cameras and changing the law to allow demerit points on these and speed camera
fines.:eek:

[scumdog]

Sorry, usual response.

Its amazing how many vehicles go past speed cameras each day and don't get their photos taken.

I suspect it's related to the fact that they don't exceed the speed limit plus the tolerance.

Simple ideas, almost always the best.

I got around a lot of the North Island last month, I was driving a vehicle with a speedo that was erratic as well as read a speed slower than I was actually doing. (i.e. read 95kph - actual 103kph)

Never got my picture taken, never got pulled over...boring eh!

[superjackal]

Sorry, usual response.

Its amazing how many vehicles go past speed cameras each day and don't get their photos taken.

I suspect it's related to the fact that they don't exceed the speed limit plus the tolerance.

Simple ideas, almost always the best.

Statistically, most people drive well within the law. You can't fight the parabola - it just shifts. If everyone obeyed the law they'd just find a lower limit/another excuse.

If speed cameras raise $50M a year why not just tax every man, woman and child $12.50 a year and have no cameras? I like that solution much better.

[FJRider]

From the article..."I think what all this subterfuge is about is police having a nice little earner,"



The police don't get to keep the money. Or even decide what the money should be spent on. Those that contribute to ... and continue to contribute to the country's economy ... Treasury offers their thanks.

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/16895844/dunne-accuses-police-of-camera-cash-grab/

From the article..."I think what all this subterfuge is about is police having a nice little earner,"

Even the pollies are saying what most people having been saying for a while. Mind you he did get 2 fines recently :) Having said that, why is Peter upset?
He is the minister for revenue gathering and the cameras brought in $50 million in revenues from last year.

Saw a van this afternoon set up at the end of a long straight overtaking lane. Van set back over the slight crest and behind a large grass bank so you can't see it till it's too late. I don't remember any accidents on that particular piece of road in the last few years, so they can't be pinging people at or near an accident hotspot so to me it's just blatant revenue gathering. I mean you don't even get points, just pay the money and keep on speeding if your wallets fat enough :bleh:

I have no issue with the concept of velocity tax. Demerit points can suck my sweaty ballsack though.

[Scuba_Steve]

I got around a lot of the North Island last month, I was driving a vehicle with a speedo that was erratic as well as read a speed slower than I was actually doing. (i.e. read 95kph - actual 103kph)

Never got my picture taken, never got pulled over...boring eh!

:gob: You got that kinda speed outta your Harley... What kinda black magic is this!? :bleh:

[rastuscat]

:gob: You got that kinda speed outta your Harley... What kinda black magic is this!? :bleh:

Come on Skoober...........he took his Hardly up in the Westpac helichopchop and dropped it to erath. Only way he could get it to exceed the local speed limit.......

[Swoop]

The most disturbing point from all of this: the police refused an Official Information Act request.

[Maha]

Got flashed a few weeks ago, I was alongside another vechicle at the time and haven't heard a thing...mint!

[gwigs]

The most disturbing point from all of this: the police refused an Official Information Act request.

Yes I dont like that either.....refused ...can they...?

[FJRider]

Yes I dont like that either.....refused ...can they...?

Yes they can. The "Official Information Act" is not a free pass to all information that you may ask for.

9 Other reasons for withholding official information

(1) Where this section applies, good reason for withholding official information exists, for the purpose of section 5, unless, in the circumstances of the particular case, the withholding of that information is outweighed by other considerations which render it desirable, in the public interest, to make that information available.

(2) Subject to sections 6, 7, 10, and 18, this section applies if, and only if, the withholding of the information is necessary to—

(a) protect the privacy of natural persons, including that of deceased natural persons; or

(b) protect information where the making available of the information—

(i) would disclose a trade secret; or

(ii) would be likely unreasonably to prejudice the commercial position of the person who supplied or who is the subject of the information; or

(ba) protect information which is subject to an obligation of confidence or which any person has been or could be compelled to provide under the authority of any enactment, where the making available of the information—

(i) would be likely to prejudice the supply of similar information, or information from the same source, and it is in the public interest that such information should continue to be supplied; or

(ii) would be likely otherwise to damage the public interest; or

(c) avoid prejudice to measures protecting the health or safety of members of the public; or

(d) avoid prejudice to the substantial economic interests of New Zealand; or

(e) avoid prejudice to measures that prevent or mitigate material loss to members of the public; or

(f) maintain the constitutional conventions for the time being which protect—

(i) the confidentiality of communications by or with the Sovereign or her representative:

(ii) collective and individual ministerial responsibility:

(iii) the political neutrality of officials:

(iv) the confidentiality of advice tendered by Ministers of the Crown and officials; or

(g) maintain the effective conduct of public affairs through—

(i) the free and frank expression of opinions by or between or to Ministers of the Crown or members of an organisation or officers and employees of any department or organisation in the course of their duty; or

(ii) the protection of such Ministers, members of organisations, officers, and employees from improper pressure or harassment; or

(h) maintain legal professional privilege; or

(i) enable a Minister of the Crown or any department or organisation holding the information to carry out, without prejudice or disadvantage, commercial activities; or

(j) enable a Minister of the Crown or any department or organisation holding the information to carry on, without prejudice or disadvantage, negotiations (including commercial and industrial negotiations); or

(k) prevent the disclosure or use of official information for improper gain or improper advantage.

[willytheekid]

"cameras brought in $50 million in revenues from last year*"

Awesome!...so...how many lives did they save??, how many repeat drink drivers did they catch??...OPPS!...silly me, road safety actually has nothing to do with this...aye!

And Im with Swoop, they refused an Official Information Act request???...that right there...is plain and simple bullshit!!



*could they possibly spend this money on FIXING the shitty gravel ridden, pot-holed crap we call "roads"?...or maybe investigate the rip off road repair companys ripping off Kiwi tax payers...but that does involve some form of investigation and a will to help the average kiwi...so I guess no huh:motu:

[FJRider]

"cameras brought in $50 million in revenues from last year*"

Awesome!...so...how many lives did they save??


How many public funded operations did that $50 million fund. Lives saved ... or lives vastly improved ...

all due to a few that cant stick to the posted speed limit. And NO tax increases to fund it either.

The "official information act" is never a guarantee all questions will be answered.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1982/0156/latest/DLM64785.html

[Hailwood]

Apart from the obvious point that speed camera fines are a voluntary contribution...(dont want a speed camera fine then don't speed)....dont you just love politicians who whinge about "the Police revenue gathering" when they (the politicians) know full well that police dont see a cent of it...all funds go directly to the govt coffers for whatever the govt decides to spend it on...which sure as hell isnt being spent on Police this year, next year or indeed the year after...

[SPman]

. Lives saved ... or lives vastly improved ...

all due to a few that cant stick to the posted speed limit. ...the open road posted speed limit, dating back to the mists of time, to a time when most cars doing 55-60mph were really pushing the boat out a bit, with highly inferior driving dynamics, tyres, brakes, crashability, maneuverability, etc, etc. compared to modern vehicles. Times and vehicles have moved on...but pedantic policing has worsened. Driven by pedantic, narrow focussed, traffic "authorities" and the wailing scream of "safety...safety..." - as though putting people into ever more restrictive and repressive scenarios will help in that regard - it doesn't!

Only $50mill in NZ! Cameras in Aus. bring in over $2,000,000,000 a year! There's something to aim for...all those politicians hooked to the easy money like junkies to a meth pipe!

[FJRider]

Blah ... Blah ..

Only $50mill in NZ! Cameras in Aus. bring in over $2,000,000,000 a year! There's something to aim for...all those politicians hooked to the easy money like junkies to a meth pipe!

With their population base of about 23 million ... as opposed to our four million .... You just might expect a bit of a difference in the amount gathered in speed camera fines.

[scumdog]

Only $50mill in NZ! Cameras in Aus. bring in over $2,000,000,000 a year! There's something to aim for...all those politicians hooked to the easy money like junkies to a meth pipe!

$2,000,000,000 and with the same population, - who'd a thunk it??<_<

[Scuba_Steve]

"cameras brought in $50 million in revenues from last year*"

Awesome!...so...how many lives did they save??, how many repeat drink drivers did they catch??...OPPS!...silly me, road safety actually has nothing to do with this...aye!


Lives saved = 0
Lives lost = well if the UK [Govt] study is to be believed, potentially 69 people every year.
Moneys made = lots

[duckonin]

Sorry, usual response.

Its amazing how many vehicles go past speed cameras each day and don't get their photos taken.

I suspect it's related to the fact that they don't exceed the speed limit plus the tolerance.

Simple ideas, almost always the best.

Amazing how many cops exceed the speed limit and get off the tickets . Jerks !!!

[sketch]

speed cameras cant get bikes tho can they? no plate on the front? i accelerate and rip the fingers so please dont say im wrong or theres a stack of fines heading to a mailbox near me

[willytheekid]

Lives saved = 0
Lives lost = well if the UK [Govt] study is to be believed, potentially 69 people every year.
Moneys made = lots

Shhhh!!!...its about safety!...not profit!:confused:

...you would think they might introduce actual driver training tests with high standards to ensure NZ produces safe and responsible drivers...maybe even have harsh fines & jail time for drink driving and the like<_<

....but nahh!!...why solve the problem...when you can turn a VERY tidy profit!

.

[Road kill]

speed cameras cant get bikes tho can they? no plate on the front? i accelerate and rip the fingers so please dont say im wrong or theres a stack of fines heading to a mailbox near me

There's a poison dwarf in each of those vans and they have pens an paper to write stuff on.

It's not all high tech on dwarf wages mate.

[McFatty1000]

I don't have an issue with speed cameras per sey, its more the placement of them - I've seen far more on stretches of road that really didn't warrant them (End of passing lanes, the only straights suitable for passing in the middle of windy bits etc etc)

Black spots, not so much.

It'd be nice if they pinged slow traffic holding up long lines of cars up too

[sketch]

There's a poison dwarf in each of those vans and they have pens an paper to write stuff on.

It's not all high tech on dwarf wages mate.

filthy hobbitses

[FJRider]

speed cameras cant get bikes tho can they? no plate on the front? i accelerate and rip the fingers so please dont say im wrong or theres a stack of fines heading to a mailbox near me


Not all photo's are taken of the front of the vehicle. It depends on where the camera is placed.

[sketch]

oh yea obviously, i meant when there pointed at oncoming traffic

[FJRider]

oh yea obviously, i meant when there pointed at oncoming traffic

If the vehicle can be correctly identified without the rego plate being seen ... A traffic infringement notice can be issued.

Those with a distinctive paint/motorcycle/apparel ... enjoy the right to be different ... while you can.

[scumdog]

Amazing how many cops exceed the speed limit and get off the tickets . Jerks !!!

Tell me this amazing figure..go on tell me...<_<

[Scuba_Steve]

Tell me this amazing figure..go on tell me...<_<

at-least 1,623 between 2005-2010, don't know more recent figures.
Oh, and of-course they're only the recorded ones...
:bleh:

[FJRider]

at-least 1,623 between 2005-2010, don't know more recent figures.
Oh, and of-course they're only the recorded ones...
:bleh:

Were these all ticketed in "Work" vehicles in "Work" time ... or off duty .. ???

[rastuscat]

at-least 1,623 between 2005-2010, don't know more recent figures.
Oh, and of-course they're only the recorded ones...
:bleh:

Dude. Now tell us how many non police got warnings in their own private cars? How many of the cops you say got warnings were acting in execution of their duty?

Still, just quote the stats you want. It helps your case.

[scumdog]

at-least 1,623 between 2005-2010, don't know more recent figures.
Oh, and of-course they're only the recorded ones...
:bleh:

Straight from the '100%-accurate-KB-archives' as recorded by SkidMark huh??:shifty:

[rastuscat]

One of the guys in our office got pinged at 62 in a work car. Sucked it up and paid the fine. It's easier to just pay the $80 than to write all the nonsense, bollocks reports it takes to have the fine waived. Sad thing is he is a straight shooter who just paid up as he couldn't honestly remember what he was doing 6 weeks earlier. That's how long it takes to get the ticket through on a work car.

[Berg]

One of the guys in our office got pinged at 62 in a work car. Sucked it up and paid the fine. It's easier to just pay the $80 than to write all the nonsense, bollocks reports it takes to have the fine waived. Sad thing is he is a straight shooter who just paid up as he couldn't honestly remember what he was doing 6 weeks earlier. That's how long it takes to get the ticket through on a work car.
Yep, two of ours have had tickets in the past few years and had to pay them as they couldn't prove they were urgent duty driving at the time. As for out of work time on my bike or in my car, I'm as much a target as the next guy (maybe more so after upsetting one of our highway guys).

[Scuba_Steve]

Were these all ticketed in "Work" vehicles in "Work" time ... or off duty .. ???

I'm assuming work vehicles, work time.



Dude. Now tell us how many non police got warnings in their own private cars? How many of the cops you say got warnings were acting in execution of their duty?

Still, just quote the stats you want. It helps your case.

yea, don't know. The writeup didn't really have much more than I put here, other than to say another 1251 cops paid their speeding scam



Straight from the '100%-accurate-KB-archives' as recorded by SkidMark huh??:shifty:

No from OIA request courtesy of the Otago Daily Times/NZ Herald

[McFatty1000]

Seeing as a few of the local police are posting on this, who sets where the cameras are set up?

[scumdog]

Seeing as a few of the local police are posting on this, who sets where the cameras are set up?

Not the local Police, that's for sure...

[rastuscat]

Seeing as a few of the local police are posting on this, who sets where the cameras are set up?

The sites are determined by a committee normally including NZTA, Police, ACC, Automobile Association, local body road safety people. They are based on crash risk, determined by historical crash data.

Each district has a different method of deploying it's vans to their list of sites, so can't comment on that specific one.

Traffic camera productivity is measured in hours of operation at district level. I'm sure someone somewhere counts the tickets, but at district level it's hours that count.

Just though some facts would be handy.

[FJRider]

In recent weeks there was a thread about a fixed camera in the Ngauranga gorge ...

I found this snippet at STUFF ...


It's already the most notorious speed camera in Wellington, and it's just got a whole lot smarter.
The camera beside State Highway 1 in Ngauranga Gorge has been upgraded to a digital version that can spot speeding cars across all six lanes, uphill and downhill, and can tell whether one car among several others is speeding.
It uses radar and laser-based technology, and has a flash that cannot be seen by the human eye. It is being tested at Ngauranga Gorge with a view to extending the technology to other high-risk speeding sites.
Police insist the switch to digital is not a revenue-gathering exercise, but rather a move to a more efficient and cost-effective system.
"I would hope tickets go down, because an indication of success is when you get a change in behaviour," calibration services manager Inspector Mark Stables said.
"If people are travelling under the speed limit, there's absolutely nothing to worry about."
About 70,000 trips are made up and down Ngauranga Gorge each day.
The previous camera, replaced in the past couple of weeks, used film that had to be taken away and developed, and was triggered by sensors buried below the road. It was able to monitor only southbound traffic, which was deemed to be the highest crash risk.
If the speed limit in the gorge is changed temporarily, the new camera can be adjusted remotely, whereas the old one had to be changed manually.
Data from the digital cameras can be downloaded electronically to a central hub, rather than someone having to visit each site to change the film. The cameras are also cheaper to run.
National manager for road policing Superintendent Carey Griffiths would not reveal the cost of the upgrade because of commercial sensitivity.
"But when compared with the social, financial and human costs of excess speed on our roads, this technology represents a very good investment."
Film has been used in all speed cameras since 1993. Mobile cameras used by police are already digital.
The new camera was trialled first on the Hutt Road, but has now been moved to the gorge, which is the 13th busiest speed camera site in the country. Police issued 3830 tickets to speeding drivers in the year to June 30.
The busiest camera is on SH1 at Sanson, in Manawatu, where 12,106 tickets were issued in the same period.
Police do not record the amount of revenue collected by each speed camera, but Mr Griffiths said there was "strong evidence" that cameras encouraged drivers to slow down, and reduced crashes.

[pritch]

From casual observation, no statistics at all, I very much doubt that the camera vans are parked at accident black spots. More like long straights at the northern and southern approaches to the province. When I see them in town they are usually parked on a hill.

As for cops giving cops tickets, several who ride bikes have told me that, if speeding, they take the same chances as the rest of us.

I was enjoying a beer with a judge the other night and he mentioned getting stopped by an HP car. When the cop saw who it was, he chuckled.
The judge assuming this meant the cop was in a good mood, thought he may get off with a warning. No such luck, he got the paperwork.

I found that quite heartwarming.

[Berries]

The sites are determined by a committee normally including NZTA, Police, ACC, Automobile Association, local body road safety people. They are based on crash risk, determined by historical crash data.
The original sites certainly started off that way, back when they actually signed speed camera areas. The process slackened off a bit when the signs got dropped and now people are correct that mobile speed cameras are being used in areas with no speed related crash history. Just wait until they start dropping the open road speed limits to 80 and 90km/h and see what happens. I would recommend people read the latest Safer Journeys action plan. It talks of "reframing the road safety conversation" and my favourite, the "hypothecation of infringement revenue for specific road safety initiatives." Sweet.

Personally I think speed limit compliance would be improved if they still had the speed camera signs up so that a) you knew they might be there and b) that you probably should knock it back a bit due to the history of crashes in the area, you know, self enforcing. Unfortunately if everyone complied with the speed limits there would be a massive drop in Government income and they wouldn't want that. What would they hypothecate with?

[FJRider]

Personally I think speed limit compliance would be improved if they still had the speed camera signs up so that a) you knew they might be there and b) that you probably should knock it back a bit due to the history of crashes in the area, you know, self enforcing. Unfortunately if everyone complied with the speed limits there would be a massive drop in Government income and they wouldn't want that. What would they hypothecate with?

There are big "Black spot Slow Down" signs everywhere.

People still crash there.

Go figure ...

[Berries]

I know the ones at Roaring Meg and the Crown Range but as they don't know what speed I am doing the message is meaningless. Do I slow to 50? To 40? Is 90km/h ok? Shit signs because they have run out of ideas, no wonder people still crash there. And, the big one, they have nothing to do with enforcement. If everyone complied with the speed limits from tomorrow the revenue would go right down but the road toll won't. There is a massive difference between traveling at a speed in excess of the posted speed limit and travelling at a speed too fast for the conditions. The problem is that the first one is easy to enforce but it is the second one that leads to crashes.

Of course, those signs can also have the opposite message. Whenever I get to that part of the Gorge and see those signs I know I am coming up to one of my favourite bits of road. My risk of crashing has probably increased because of those signs.

Go figure that one.

[SPman]

With their population base of about 23 million ... as opposed to our four million .... You just might expect a bit of a difference in the amount gathered in speed camera fines.
Hmmm $50m/4m = $12.50/person/yr
$2000m/23 = $86.96/person/yr

I see room for increased efficiency amongst NZ's road guardians..........they should be good for $350m, at least.........

[FJRider]

Hmmm $50m/4m = $12.50/person/yr
$2000m/23 = $86.96/person/yr

I see room for increased efficiency amongst NZ's road guardians..........they should be good for $350m, at least.........

I think it plainly shows that speed cameras in New Zealand ARE working to keep speeds down. And New Zealand motorists respect the posted speed limits more than their Australian cobbers ... :shifty:

And shows the result of the higher wage and salaries in Australia. The bastards have more money to waste on fines ... :niceone:

[pritch]

My limited experience of driving in Victoria suggests that people there take speed limits much more seriously than we do.
All kinds of superbikes stuck behind a truck for miles on a straight road but nobody dares risk a pass?

About the same time there was a KBer posted saying how he was passing all and sundry in Melbourne which convinced him that nobody there could match his awsome riding skills. More likely they knew the huge amount of shite that would befall them if detected speeding. Ignorance is bliss.

Oz cops aren't big into "discussion" either, you start talking, they put a hand on their Glock. That's a big hint to shut up, best take it.
As Henry Cole observed, Australia is something of a Police state.

[st00ji]

how do speeding fines in Australia compare in value to tickets here?

not 7 or 8 times more than NZ im sure.

interesting statistic!

[rastuscat]

Interesting little experiment happened in NSW a few years back.

The Popos stopped writing speeding tickets to put pressure on the Gubbermint in regard to a wage dispute. They got a payrise, but that's not the issue.

While the dispute was ongoing, people became aware of the chance of getting pinged diminishing. Up went the 85th percentile.

The payrise ticket-stoppage cost a significant number of additional deaths, which settled back down to the normal rate when the dispute was over.

I have the stats somewhere, just not right on hand.

[kinger]

Oz cops aren't big into "discussion" either, you start talking, they put a hand on their Glock. That's a big hint to shut up, best take it.

......and you believe they're going to shoot you for back chat?:brick:

Henry Cole, the slight embarrassment to Pommie bikers who stated that the advisory speeds posted on corners in NZ were pretty much spot on for a biker.

[bluninja]

Interesting little experiment happened in NSW a few years back.

The Popos stopped writing speeding tickets to put pressure on the Gubbermint in regard to a wage dispute. They got a payrise, but that's not the issue.

While the dispute was ongoing, people became aware of the chance of getting pinged diminishing. Up went the 85th percentile.

The payrise ticket-stoppage cost a significant number of additional deaths, which settled back down to the normal rate when the dispute was over.

I have the stats somewhere, just not right on hand.

Any rise may have been coincidental and would be statistically insignificant; much like when the police claim that a speeding crackdown has claimed lives based on one years data. When the next year comes along and the same program runs and there are more deaths then other reasons are found for the rise.

Hmmmmm...popo want more money, stop issuing roadside tax, government give pay rise. Sounds like my OP that speeding tickets are a nice little earner is spot on according to your post above.

The issue of how best to provide safer road journeys whilst maintaining commerce and freedom to travel is a different issue.

[Berg]

Henry Cole, the slight embarrassment to Pommie bikers who stated that the advisory speeds posted on corners in NZ were pretty much spot on for a biker.

Well, he WAS riding a Harley:msn-wink:

[Thruxton]

You can get the photo sent to you online. The last one I received was quite tastefully done I thought.
Mind you for $230.00 so it should be.

My Dear Great Aunt turned 100 recently and P. Dunne was the presenter of her birthday card from the Queen, she was heard to mumble under her breath, "What a Prick".

[R650R]

Any rise may have been coincidental and would be statistically insignificant; much like when the police claim that a speeding crackdown has claimed lives based on one years data. When the next year comes along and the same program runs and there are more deaths then other reasons are found for the rise.



Yep bit like the 4k tolerance, they did a big rain dance about the second time around when there were no fatals... then the next holiday road toll period it was business as usual for the reaper.
While I agree we need limits and laws to some degree I really get annoyed by the miss use of stats.
I think congestion is underrated in reducing our road toll, there's so much traffic now its hard for the crazies to do anything silly that will cause a crash.

[geoffm]

The police don't get to keep the money. Or even decide what the money should be spent on. Those that contribute to ... and continue to contribute to the country's economy ... Treasury offers their thanks.

Riiight - so when the budgets are made, the revenue isn't a consideration - that $50m isn't allowed for in the expected income?? The minister of police won't put pressure on the commissioner to deliver if takings are down?
They don't need to keep the dosh for it to be a KPI. Ask any salesman...

[RDJ]

My limited experience of driving in Victoria suggests that people there take speed limits much more seriously than we do. All kinds of superbikes stuck behind a truck for miles on a straight road but nobody dares risk a pass? Oz cops aren't big into "discussion" either, you start talking, they put a hand on their Glock. That's a big hint to shut up, best take it.

Yes, this has been my experience while over here too. I haven't been speeding but once or twice reflexively filtered around the CBD and hooboy, no-one was grinning…

And the 'in yer face' attitude of The Law Gang is well exemplified by this

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/perth-cops-anger-goes-viral-in-video-20131120-2xurz.html

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/11/20/14/40/police-investigate-wa-officer-s-outburst

Note especially the threat of rape-as-punishment made by the policeman because the alleged offender was running his mouth… but he will not be fired, just "spoken to".

[Pixie]

Riiight - so when the budgets are made, the revenue isn't a consideration - that $50m isn't allowed for in the expected income?? The minister of police won't put pressure on the commissioner to deliver if takings are down?
They don't need to keep the dosh for it to be a KPI. Ask any salesman...

Oh,it's better than that.NZTA and ACC contract the pigs to supply "road safety" enforcement.This is audited on the basis of number of "contacts" made.Failure to keep up the quota of "contacts" will see next year's contract reduced in value.ergo less new toys for the tax collector piggies.

No ,there is no connection between the fines and the police.

[Hawk]

Those with a distinctive paint/motorcycle/apparel ... enjoy the right to be different ... while you can.

another reason not wear hi vis :shifty:

[FJRider]

Riiight - so when the budgets are made, the revenue isn't a consideration - that $50m isn't allowed for in the expected income?? The minister of police won't put pressure on the commissioner to deliver if takings are down?
They don't need to keep the dosh for it to be a KPI. Ask any salesman...

It is simple reasoning to understand Police process to gain Goverment funding for "Problem" fix's in the Law Enforcement of NZ. To get funding to fix "Problem" issues ... first there must be SEEM to be a "Problem" to be "Fixed".

For example. If annually there are 250,000 Traffic Infringement notices issued (Nationwide) for exceeding the posted speed limit .... there is seen to be a problem with speed. If 150 Infringement notices were issued (Nationwide) ... then obviously NO (real) problem exists and NO extra funding is required.

And none will be given.

[Hinny]

It is simple reasoning to understand Police process to gain Goverment funding for "Problem" fix's in the Law Enforcement of NZ. To get funding to fix "Problem" issues ... first there must be SEEM to be a "Problem" to be "Fixed".

For example. If annually there are 250,000 Traffic Infringement notices issued (Nationwide) for exceeding the posted speed limit .... there is seen to be a problem with speed. If 150 Infringement notices were issued (Nationwide) ... then obviously NO (real) problem exists and NO extra funding is required.

And none will be given.

After just spending a couple of months overseas I get the impression we are living in a police state.
I quite forgot what the sound of howling sirens was like. Got reintroduced on the ride back from the airport.
They are out of control!

[FJRider]

After just spending a couple of months overseas I get the impression we are living in a police state.
I quite forgot what the sound of howling sirens was like. Got reintroduced on the ride back from the airport.
They are out of control!

If NZ was a "Police State" ... they would carry guns in sight ... and they would use them. With little or no warning.

NZ has a long way to go yet ... before they even get close to being a "Police State" ...

Scared of a few sirens are you ... ???

[Hinny]

If NZ was a "Police State" ... they would carry guns in sight ... and they would use them. With little or no warning.

NZ has a long way to go yet ... before they even get close to being a "Police State" ...

Scared of a few sirens are you ... ???

I think you are wrong.

I get annoyed by the lots of sirens we hear - all day and all night. Many years ago the cops weren't allowed to use sirens because of their irresponsible use of them. Made such a pleasant difference. I used to be able to go outside at my Remuera residence any time might or day and hear a siren within five minutes. It was ridiculous then and it is ridiculous now. It seems you can't travel for more than half an hour without seeing a cop. with someone pulled over. I can't believe that we benefit from such police activity. On the available empirical evidence it appears that such attention actually has a negative effect of driver competence and safety. Like road markings. No passing lanes. Not only on are they in areas where one might assume it was safe to pass if one was unfamiliar with the road and the road markings in such instances warn of danger, but one sees no passing lines go around blind corners and over blind crests where nobody with half a brain would consider passing. The result of this I believe is that people feel it is safe to pass whenever there is an absence of no passing lines. May be as illogical to you as it is to me, however, I believe it is because of the actions of the destroyers of our roads that has led to the absence of a competent motoring public.

[Tigadee]

I get annoyed by the lots of sirens we hear - all day and all night.

Are you lumping ambulances in there together with police sirens? I think the ambulances are more busy than the police, what with the aging population, careless motorists and the like in this country.

[pritch]

I live close enough to a main road to hear the sirens and have the impression that there are more than there used to be. They are not all Police though, last week there was a succession of sirens: the first two were probably Police then maybe a fire engine, followed by an ambulance, then maybe the Fire Service white car or another police car.

The fire engines and the ambulances can be identified by the additional use of their horns because the more comatose drivers don't feel compelled to move out of their way with the same alacrity as for the police. The actual number of sirens presumably depends on the size of the mess?

[FJRider]

I think you are wrong.

I know you are ...


I get annoyed by the lots of sirens we hear - all day and all night.

I haven't heard one for three days ..


Many years ago the cops weren't allowed to use sirens because of their irresponsible use of them. Made such a pleasant difference.

Many years ago ... there wasn't a great need for them in most areas ... where do YOU live ... ???


I used to be able to go outside at my Remuera residence any time might or day and hear a siren within five minutes.

The bold bit explains all .... have you considered moving to a nicer (quieter) area/province ... ???


It seems you can't travel for more than half an hour without seeing a cop. with someone pulled over.

I drove from Cromwell to Christchurch ... then back to Dunedin yesterday ... the only cops I saw on the whole trip were attending a road accident ... (and two speed camera vans)


I can't believe that we benefit from such police activity. On the available empirical evidence it appears that such attention actually has a negative effect of driver competence and safety.

On your say so you mean ... ??? and traffic fines add to treasury ... a requires less tax we pay. And not ALL sirens mean Highway Patrol are stopping vehicles ... fire and ambulances have them too you know. Big cities with large populations do have more emergencies requiring urgent Police presence ... requiring sirens to warn the motoring public of their approach. Do you wish to deny them that use of siren .. used in the interest of public safety ..?? OR ... you just want peace and quiet. If the latter ... how noble of you ... NOT .. !!!



Like road markings. No passing lanes. Not only on are they in areas where one might assume it was safe to pass if one was unfamiliar with the road and the road markings in such instances warn of danger, but one sees no passing lines go around blind corners and over blind crests where nobody with half a brain would consider passing. The result of this I believe is that people feel it is safe to pass whenever there is an absence of no passing lines. May be as illogical to you as it is to me, however, I believe it is because of the actions of the destroyers of our roads that has led to the absence of a competent motoring public.

May I point out ... Police do not dictate WHERE The no passing lines are placed. (Transit New Zealand do .. as I understand)

I believe in the Easter bunny ... perhaps BOTH our beliefs are askew ...

[scumdog]

I think you are wrong.

I get annoyed by the lots of sirens we hear - all day and all night. Many years ago the cops weren't allowed to use sirens because of their irresponsible use of them. Made such a pleasant difference. I used to be able to go outside at my Remuera residence any time might or day and hear a siren within five minutes. It was ridiculous then and it is ridiculous now. It seems you can't travel for more than half an hour without seeing a cop. with someone pulled over. I can't believe that we benefit from such police activity. On the available empirical evidence it appears that such attention actually has a negative effect of driver competence and safety. Like road markings. No passing lanes. Not only on are they in areas where one might assume it was safe to pass if one was unfamiliar with the road and the road markings in such instances warn of danger, but one sees no passing lines go around blind corners and over blind crests where nobody with half a brain would consider passing. The result of this I believe is that people feel it is safe to pass whenever there is an absence of no passing lines. May be as illogical to you as it is to me, however, I believe it is because of the actions of the destroyers of our roads that has led to the absence of a competent motoring public.

Time to untwist your Victorias Secret specials...

[Hinny]

Time to untwist your Victorias Secret specials...

I got Pratunam market specials matey and they are not in a twist.

Can't imagine many Kiwi drivers being able to handle the Bangkok mayhem. They look where they are going over there.
Got to Singapore - uber control - saw an accident after 2 days.
The world is arse about face I tell ya.

[Hinny]

I believe in the Easter bunny ... perhaps BOTH our beliefs are askew ...

You believe in the Easter Bunny because of the foreseen benefits of satiated sugar cravings - satisfied gluttony for some of us - and so you delude yourself.

As to my other beliefs - it is simple - I am right.

[R650R]

Like road markings. No passing lanes. Not only on are they in areas where one might assume it was safe to pass if one was unfamiliar with the road and the road markings in such instances warn of danger, but one sees no passing lines go around blind corners and over blind crests where nobody with half a brain would consider passing. The result of this I believe is that people feel it is safe to pass whenever there is an absence of no passing lines. May be as illogical to you as it is to me, however, I believe it is because of the actions of the destroyers of our roads that has led to the absence of a competent motoring public.

I think you meant to say we are living in a Feral State, yes our driving is shocking.
Was going to ask if you had been on holiday in somewhere lawless like Somalia, but lol actually Singapore, they don't much about there.
I live near a busy junction, fast cars and bikes by day and feral drunk teens wandering streets by night nearly all week. We're nowhere near a police state as they are way to lenient on all the rubbish causing disturbance at night, too busy dealing with domestics.
The real worry should not be the police but the brownshirts of society who are all to keen to *555 you for minor offences.

[BMWST?]

Its all the LOUD,cars,bikes,and trucks that annoy me,not sirens

[Hinny]

[QUOTE=R650R;1130706537]I think you meant to say we are livinpaid attention to what they were doing and coped with other roD ussrsa Feral State, yes our driving is shocking.
Was going to ask if you had been on holiday in somewhere lawless like Somalia, but lol actually Singapore, they don't much about there.
I live near a busy junction, fast cars and bikes by day and feral drunk teens wandering streets by night nearly all week. We're nowhere near a police state as they are way to lenient on all the rubbish causing disturbance at night, too busy dealing with domestics.
The real worry should not be the police but the brownshirts of society who are all to keen to *555 you for minor offences.[/QUOTE
You clearly miss my point. That point being that the 'attention' of traffic enforcement officers often has the exact opposite effect to that desired.
I was in Thailand which appeared lawless but had drivers who paid attention to other road users and reacted to them. I didn't see any traffic enforcement and traffic flowed. The opposite of what we have here. The problems are created by the solutions in the same manner that the drug problem was created by misguided people trying to find solutions.

[Hinny]

Its all the LOUD,cars,bikes,and trucks that annoy me,not sirens
Don't hear any of those here. Just sirens - not Ambos as they have a different sound.
Interestingly I have found I can't hear sirens behind me even though my bike is quiet. ... and I'm pretty sure it is not because I am riding near the speed of sound.

[Hinny]

If NZ was a "Police State" ... they would carry guns in sight ... and they would use them. With little or no warning.

NZ has a long way to go yet ... before they even get close to being a "Police State" ...

Don't think NZ is a Police State> What about the USA. Is that a Police State?

[FJRider]

Can't imagine many Kiwi drivers being able to handle the Bangkok mayhem. They look where they are going over there.

I lived in Singapore for two years. I once rode a motorcycle to Bangkok and back from there. Bangkok isn't mayhem ... more organized (of sorts) chaos ... :lol: There are rules ... some unwritten ... but rules none the less.


Got to Singapore - uber control - saw an accident after 2 days.
The world is arse about face I tell ya.

Singapore is the uber example of a Police state. They have more rules than you could ever (never) want in NZ ... and penalties for breaking them so severe ... the public outrage in NZ would make world news if any attempt was made to copy them here. And to control the large population of that small country ... they need them.

Arguing with a cop will get you looking down the barrel of a .38 ... really quickly. And they care little for public opinion of them. Get arrested and you will reside in a Police cell until your court hearing.

In most cases ... unless it is a serious offense or traffic is heavy ... police don't do roadside stops. They just mail you the fine or summons. Don't pay in the time allowed ... or don't appear in court at the appointed day ... you go to jail. If you go to court and get a fine (usually in the thousands of $$$) and you HAVE to pay before you leave the court. Don't pay ... you go straight to jail until it is paid.

NO exceptions. No excuses expected or accepted.

And don't moan about Rego costs in NZ ... Their system goes on engine capacity (on all vehicles) ... the larger the engine ... the more you pay. My 1000cc Suzuki cost me $500 per year in the 80's ... and prices will have gone up. And the older the vehicle .. the more you pay.

[Hinny]

Singapore is the uber example of a Police state. They have more rules than you could ever (never) want in NZ ... and penalties for breaking them so severe ... the public outrage in NZ would make world news if any attempt was made to copy them here.

Dream on - the public of NZ are so apathetic nothing I could imagine could induce then to be outraged.

[FJRider]

Dream on - the public of NZ are so apathetic nothing I could imagine could induce then to be outraged.

Singapore doesn't have a WINZ style public benefit system. For sickness, health or unemployment. It wont take much imagination to think of the public outrage if the NZ Government scrapped that ... :killingme

[Hinny]

Singapore doesn't have a WINZ style public benefit system. For sickness, health or unemployment. It wont take much imagination to think of the public outrage if the NZ Government scrapped that ... :killingme

To use an Aussie expression " Mate, you're dreamin".
Have they done so in the past?
Plenty of instances where, by your premise, outrage would ensue. Did it? No, Govt. actions were ignored by most... indeed they were applauded by the mouthy ones.
Sue Bradford is one of the very few in this country who appear to have any reaction to perceived injustices and are willing to stand up and voice their outrage.
The majority - nothing.
What could be the reason for this apathy?
Is this reticence a deficit or absence of a moral compass?
Is it a deficit in intelligence - to be unaware of anything they could or should be outraged by?
Is it media control?
Whatever the answer to these questions one thing is certain - I can think of nothing to galvanise the people of NZ enough for them to become outraged.

[BMWST?]

To use an Aussie expression " Mate, you're dreamin".
Have they done so in the past?
Plenty of instances where, by your premise, outrage would ensue. Did it? No, Govt. actions were ignored by most... indeed they were applauded by the mouthy ones.
Sue Bradford is one of the very few in this country who appear to have any reaction to perceived injustices and are willing to stand up and voice their outrage.
The majority - nothing.
What could be the reason for this apathy?
Is this reticence a deficit or absence of a moral compass?
Is it a deficit in intelligence - to be unaware of anything they could or should be outraged by?
Is it media control?
Whatever the answer to these questions one thing is certain - I can think of nothing to galvanise the people of NZ enough for them to become outraged.

You the dreamer with holier than thou illusions,what do you want,blood in the streets?

[Hinny]

You the dreamer with holier than thou illusions,what do you want,blood in the streets?

'Holier than thou illusions' - perhaps you could elucidate.

That may give me some insight into your question.

[BMWST?]

'Holier than thou illusions' - perhaps you could elucidate.

That may give me some insight into your question.

It's not a question its a statement.

[Hinny]

It's not a question its a statement.
Why put a question mark at the end if it is not a question?

Feeling tired and stressed by any chance?
That may explain why you are behaving like a jackass.

[BMWST?]

Name calling is also jackass-ish
You seem to beleive most other new zealanders are of limited intelligence,or of dubious morality,which you beleive you are not, hence my holier than thou statement

[FJRider]

What could be the reason for this apathy?


The lack of willingness of the majority of the population ... to even bother voting certainly wont help ... :killingme

If less than 50 percent of the eligible voters "make their mark" on the ballot papers ... perhaps the Government is doing better than they/most think .. :niceone:

[pritch]

What about the USA. Is that a Police State?

Absofuckinglutely!

[Hinny]

The lack of willingness of the majority of the population ... to even bother voting certainly wont help ... :killingme

If less than 50 percent of the eligible voters "make their mark" on the ballot papers ... perhaps the Government is doing better than they/most think .. :niceone:

WTF.

What does that mean?

Are you by any chance suggesting that this Govt. is doing a good job?
I hope not.
Loathe as I am to get into name calling, that sort of statement would certainly put you in the firing line for ridicule and derision from even the most moderate reader of this thread; and I would be an avid supporter of that.

[Hinny]

Absofuckinglutely!

What I believe is that the govt. of this country is acting as though it was a state of the USA and adopting its Policing policies and culture.
We only have to watch the US cop shows on TV to see how fucked up that society is.
Do we really want to emulate that society?
I believe we are much better than that. That sort of policing does not work there and so why would anyone be so stupid as to think that it would work here.

[oneblackflag]

WTF.

What does that mean?

Are you by any chance suggesting that this Govt. is doing a good job?
I hope not.
Loathe as I am to get into name calling, that sort of statement would certainly put you in the firing line for ridicule and derision from even the most moderate reader of this thread; and I would be an avid supporter of that.

Doing a "good" job, yes; great job would come with drone strikes...:drool:

[oneblackflag]

We only have to watch the US cop shows on TV to see how fucked up that society is.


These shows are you're gauge on a society?:rolleyes:

[Ocean1]

Doing a "good" job, yes; great job would come with drone strikes...:drool:

...And dole payments you actually have to queue for.

[FJRider]

A clue to you are (or are not) living in a police state ... could be gauged in the end result of you telling a Police officer to Fuck off ... to his face.

Shot and/or beaten up and left in a police cell ... and you probably ARE living in a Police state.

Any other end result ... and the answer is no.

Try it for yourself ... ANYTIME ... (the gutless ones need not try .... everywhere is a police state for them)

[Scuba_Steve]

A clue to you are (or are not) living in a police state ... could be gauged in the end result of you telling a Police officer to Fuck off ... to his face.

Shot and/or beaten up and left in a police cell ... and you probably ARE living in a Police state.

Any other end result ... and the answer is no.

Try it for yourself ... ANYTIME ... (the gutless ones need not try .... everywhere is a police state for them)

By your test then we ARE living in a police state, so there we have it.

296374

[scumdog]

By your test then we ARE living in a police state, so there we have it.

296374

Well ain't you lucky!!!;)

[FJRider]

By your test then we ARE living in a police state, so there we have it.

296374

When did you get out of clink .. ?? have the broken bones healed yet .. ??


I live in Otago (it's a Province) The cops down here have a sense of humor (a few ride Harleys even) ... perhaps you just live in a state of fear and paranoia ... :lol:

[Scuba_Steve]

Well ain't you lucky!!!;)

Damm giggity I won the go to jail prize that night, was quite entertaining actually made the station sergeant speechless, fuck he was pissed but the expression on his face was priceless.
Guess he wasn't prepared for his intimidation tactics to fail as miserably as they did



When did you get out of clink .. ?? have the broken bones healed yet .. ??

I live in Otago (it's a Province) The cops down here have a sense of humor (a few ride Harleys even) ... perhaps you just live in a state of fear and paranoia ... :lol:

Got out years ago, no broken bones.
That was back when I lived in the city with the highest cops: people, which also had the highest crime: people; so what were those cops doing you might ask? well it also had the most speeding tickets: people. Course with all those cops writing tickets the driving should be half decent right? nope, rated the city with the worst drivers too.

Maybee you should head up North once in awhile, might change your rose tinted view on NZ & it's police, or I suppose you could wait a few years & the corruption will make it's way down to you anyways

[FJRider]

Damm giggity I won the go to jail prize that night, was quite entertaining actually made the station sergeant speechless, fuck he was pissed but the expression on his face was priceless.
Guess he wasn't prepared for his intimidation tactics to fail as miserably as they did

Intimidation is not a police tactic ... in a Police state. Rigid control is ...


Got out years ago, no broken bones.
That was back when I lived in the city with the highest cops: people, which also had the highest crime: people; so what were those cops doing you might ask? well it also had the most speeding tickets: people. Course with all those cops writing tickets the driving should be half decent right? nope, rated the city with the worst drivers too.

Go back there .. they miss you. Shining examples are rare ...


Maybee you should head up North once in awhile, might change your rose tinted view on NZ & it's police, or I suppose you could wait a few years & the corruption will make it's way down to you anyways


I would ... but both the South Island cops are on holiday at the moment. And a few of us are breaking a few speed limits ... 'cos we can ... :headbang:

[scumdog]

Damm giggity I won the go to jail prize that night, was quite entertaining actually made the station sergeant speechless, fuck he was pissed but the expression on his face was priceless.
Guess he wasn't prepared for his intimidation tactics to fail as miserably as they did

Wow, you showed 'em you da man!

(Probably forgot about you ten minutes later - there's always another idiot willing to entertain..)

[Scuba_Steve]

Wow, you showed 'em you da man!

(Probably forgot about you ten minutes later - there's always another idiot willing to entertain..)

I wasn't the one pounding my chest running intimidation tactics, that was your gang member. But he wasn't such "da man" that night

Probably forgotten bout me by now but they remembered me for awhile after. Apparently I wasn't their favourite "customer", couldn't imagine why :shifty:

[Coldrider]

Intimidation is not a police tactic ... in a Police state. Rigid control is ...



Go back there .. they miss you. Shining examples are rare ...




I would ... but both the South Island cops are on holiday at the moment. And a few of us are breaking a few speed limits ... 'cos we can ... :headbang:Actually you have three cops, but one is on leave without pay http://www.3news.co.nz/Queenstown-taxi-driver-wants-cop-charged-with-assault/tabid/423/articleID/337060/Default.aspx

[FJRider]

Actually you have three cops, but one is on leave without pay http://www.3news.co.nz/Queenstown-taxi-driver-wants-cop-charged-with-assault/tabid/423/articleID/337060/Default.aspx

As I said ... shining examples are rare .. :pinch:

[Berries]

I live in Otago (it's a Province) The cops down here have a sense of humor (a few ride Harleys even)
Well, you would have to wouldn't you?