Does your bike comply?

[Mental Trousers]

I'm glad to see the proposed rules on machine safety as I don't ever want to be that guy who stopped a meeting cos he covered the track in oil or whatever. Does anybodies bike already comply with all of the proposed rules?

All rules - http://www.mnz.co.nz/regulations/rules/general-rules
Full list of rule changes - http://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/regulations/summary-of-all-proposed-rule-changes-for-website.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Current rule 10.13

10.13 For sealed surface competition, all crank cases, gear box, oil drain and breather tubes open only into a catch tank, i.e. a plastic bottle or suitable container to catch oil and oil mists. Air cleaner drain lines will enter a catch bottle and be sealed. Drain plugs and oil filter retaining bolts will be wired. Spin-on cartridge type oil filters must be secured by a hose clip.

Machine safety proposed changes.

10.13
To include filler caps
Reason: The rule currently only includes drain plugs

Yes. I always took this as being a no-brainer and did it anyway.


22.6.2
Once the meeting has been declared wet, a rear facing flashing red LED light must be fitted and operational
Reason: New rule

Not yet. Will do soon.


22.8.17
For National championship meetings, all machines must be fitted with an integral lower fairing dam(Bellypan) or separate catch tray, which must be constructed to trap and hold engine oil and or coolant, with a capacity of not less than,4 strokes = 3 litres,2 strokes = 2.5 litres, with no less than 2 holes(1 front,1 rear) of 25mm dia which will be fitted with rubber bungs that may be removed in wet conditions
Reason: To limit the instance of fluid being dropped on the track surface.


Yep.


22.8.18
All lateral engine cases containing oil or water and which could contact the ground during a crash, must be protected by a second cover made from composite materials, type carbon or Kevlar, or be fitted with heavy duty crash resistant end cases made from solid metal plates and or bars made from alloy or steel all must be resistant to sudden shock
Reason: To reduce the incidence of oil or water left on the track following a crash


Yep


22.8.19
Front brake caliper mounting bolts, must be wired or pinned in the tightened position
Reason: New rule


Will do before my next race meeting


22.8.20
A front brake lever protector may be fitted
Reason: New rule


Optional but I've got one fitted anyway
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=brake+lever+guard&_nkwusc=brake+lever+gaurd&_rdc=1


22.8.21
A chainguard made of suitable material MUST be fitted in such a way to prevent trapping between the lowerchain run and the final drive sproket at the rear wheel
Reason: New rule

Been looking for one of these for a while but I haven't found one that

doesn't involve drilling the swing arm
doesn't look retarded

Anyone found any that fit those two criteria for a 2005 CBR600RR??

[CHOPPA]

All looks very good. Exactly how they run the bikes in Australia and they are very strict on it.

[lukemillar]

Same in the UK as well. All good stuff! The running out of fuel rule is going to be interesting!

[SWERVE]

Same in the UK as well. All good stuff! The running out of fuel rule is going to be interesting!
Only interesting when someone does it and gets a fine 'up them' . NZ races are short and tracks are even shorter. i know the fuel mass makes a difference but no excuses in my book. We might only run a 250 but we know exactly how much we run at specific lap times for specific laps. Its just a matter of testing and documenting the results............ unless its E85 (:Police:lets not go there):nono:IMHO

[CHOPPA]

On the subject of fines, do the riders have any right to dispute without being excluded from the event, innocent until proven guilty etc etc


I was given a fine, I disagreed (naturally) but I was told that unless I paid the fine I could not compete at the event.... I paid the fine, well someone paid the fine but basically I had no say, even if I could prove that I was "innocent" I had already admitted my guilt by paying the fine.

Hypothetically if your bike broke down and the steward thought you had run out of gas and slapped you with a $400 fine. Its pay up or f*ck off?

[SWERVE]

If all bikes that did not complete the race distance for whatever reason had to taken to tech inspection (as a crashed bike would be) before returnintg to pits, then it would be able to ascertain the reason for stopping and then the fine could be issued. Youve been to Oz Choppa How do they do it there?

[Billy]

On the subject of fines, do the riders have any right to dispute without being excluded from the event, innocent until proven guilty etc etc


I was given a fine, I disagreed (naturally) but I was told that unless I paid the fine I could not compete at the event.... I paid the fine, well someone paid the fine but basically I had no say, even if I could prove that I was "innocent" I had already admitted my guilt by paying the fine.

Hypothetically if your bike broke down and the steward thought you had run out of gas and slapped you with a $400 fine. Its pay up or f*ck off?

The rulebook should clear it up for you,Chapter 7

[neil_cb125t]

10.2 Race Numbers
Race numbers will start from one, no prefix numbers are permitted. All competitors must use the number as allocated to them on their MNZ Competition Licence. All overseas based competitors, must use a letter, that letter will be allocated by MNZ upon receipt of their start permission and notify to the rider the host Clubs & commissioners.

Last July I applied for my senior MNZ licience, I had heard about the new 2 digit number rule (I have been 176 for 5 years or so), so I tried approx 20 different 2 digit numbers none of which were available. When I punched in my old number 176 it accepted it. My current MNZ licience states my race number is 176....Think MNZ needs to change the registration procedure so that next licence year this isn't possible i.e change the limitations on the online form.....then we'll let the sh*t fight over the 89 race numbers begin......cause that make sense!

[neil_cb125t]

yes billy ill email MNZ formally.........

[Billy]

Last July I applied for my senior MNZ licience, I had heard about the new 2 digit number rule (I have been 176 for 5 years or so), so I tried approx 20 different 2 digit numbers none of which were available. When I punched in my old number 176 it accepted it. My current MNZ licience states my race number is 176....Think MNZ needs to change the registration procedure so that next licence year this isn't possible i.e change the limitations on the online form.....then we'll let the sh*t fight over the 89 race numbers begin......cause that make sense!

Its all under control Neil,The girls at the office are going to remove the number option for roadracing on the licence application form,Then the new system will begin(Actually its not a new system,Its the original system updated),By the way,The 2 digit number was not a new rule last year.

[neil_cb125t]

Its all under control Neil,The girls at the office are going to remove the number option for roadracing on the licence application form,Then the new system will begin(Actually its not a new system,Its the original system updated),By the way,The 2 digit number was not a new rule last year.

oh right coolio

[CHOPPA]

If all bikes that did not complete the race distance for whatever reason had to taken to tech inspection (as a crashed bike would be) before returnintg to pits, then it would be able to ascertain the reason for stopping and then the fine could be issued. Youve been to Oz Choppa How do they do it there?


It was a hypothetical situation..... My point was the fines but Billy has pointed me in the right direction

[wayne]

whats wrong with overseas tyres ?
who imports them is that important, ?

[wharfy]

Only interesting when someone does it and gets a fine 'up them' . NZ races are short and tracks are even shorter. i know the fuel mass makes a difference but no excuses in my book. We might only run a 250 but we know exactly how much we run at specific lap times for specific laps. Its just a matter of testing and documenting the results............ unless its E85 (:Police:lets not go there):nono:IMHO

I understand the reason for this rule - but a $400 fine is WAY over the top in my opinion. Several club events I've been to recently have a sup. reg. If you run out of fuel you are excluded from the event. I can live with that I guess :(

The problem isn't running out of fuel so much as what you do when you run out of fuel - same as an electrical failure, or a mechanical failure or nowdays even a software failure ?

Some places you are just in the shit - Like comming out of the last turn at Manfield - Probably going to fast to make the pit lane entry, then nowhere to go except along the pit wall ???

[Billy]

I understand the reason for this rule - but a $400 fine is WAY over the top in my opinion. Several club events I've been to recently have a sup. reg. If you run out of fuel you are excluded from the event. I can live with that I guess :(

The problem isn't running out of fuel so much as what you do when you run out of fuel - same as an electrical failure, or a mechanical failure or nowdays even a software failure ?

Some places you are just in the shit - Like comming out of the last turn at Manfield - Probably going to fast to make the pit lane entry, then nowhere to go except along the pit wall ???

Yip,But,That was the coroners recommendation following the deaths of Derek Hill and Phillip Harrison at Puke in 08,No action was taken following that recomendation and since then we've had a similar situation at Manfeild which resulted in another death,Not a good look,Its an easy fix,Just deal with it.

[Grumph]

Its all under control Neil,The girls at the office are going to remove the number option for roadracing on the licence application form,Then the new system will begin(Actually its not a new system,Its the original system updated),By the way,The 2 digit number was not a new rule last year.

Agree it's not a new system - but I've never agreed with it or understood it. NZ is bigger than 99 permanent numbers.
Surely the original idea was that you applied for a number and (if you were outside a national top 10) you could use that number anywhere in NZ ? Surely we don't want to go back to the days of numbers being issued for specific events or clubs having to keep registers of numbers - which will inevitably go into 3 digits...

Or am I missing something here ? I can see the advantage of a national #1 - but one for each class dilutes it surely ?

[RobGassit]

Billy hates being called "surely".:devil2:

[Billy]

Billy hates being called "surely".:devil2:

Nope ...."Easy" gets me going:bleh:

[Billy]

Agree it's not a new system - but I've never agreed with it or understood it. NZ is bigger than 99 permanent numbers.
Surely the original idea was that you applied for a number and (if you were outside a national top 10) you could use that number anywhere in NZ ? Surely we don't want to go back to the days of numbers being issued for specific events or clubs having to keep registers of numbers - which will inevitably go into 3 digits...

Or am I missing something here ? I can see the advantage of a national #1 - but one for each class dilutes it surely ?

Yip,I agree re the dilution,

However I am just as sure there are plenty that see it differently,All I'm trying to do is get something in place that I am able to deal with easily and the state the numbers list was in,Needed to be rectified,Plus times have changed and with the introduction of transponders,It appears to matter little if there is more than one machine with the same number at club level,Its not a perfect system by all accounts,But it's something I can handle with ease and free's me up to deal with other issues,Who know's,In 12 months time when my appointment is up,Somebody else may prefer a different system.

[neil_cb125t]

Yip,I agree re the dilution,

However I am just as sure there are plenty that see it differently,All I'm trying to do is get something in place that I am able to deal with easily and the state the numbers list was in,Needed to be rectified,Plus times have changed and with the introduction of transponders,It appears to matter little if there is more than one machine with the same number at club level,Its not a perfect system by all accounts,But it's something I can handle with ease and free's me up to deal with other issues,Who know's,In 12 months time when my appointment is up,Somebody else may prefer a different system.

2 digits does seem to make it harder for competitors to secure a number they prefer....there are so many club levelled riders maybe numbers should only be given to senior licence holders, that way joe blogs who races once during a calendar year on his clubmans bikes doesn't steal some top levelled riders number?

[Biggles08]

6.4.1


A non competing riders rep may be selected by the Road Race commissioner prior to any champion series of 3 rounds or more, must be announced 90 days prior to the first round of such series on the MNZ website.


Reason:
It is unreasonable in the current regime to expect a rider to be available at all times as is required by the

I agree that a riders rep should be able to be a non riding non-comepetitor for the reasons given but I'm not sure about this rule re selecting the Riders rep 90 days prior to an event...and being selected by one person (RRC) rather than a general consensus of all the riders there on the day. Or am I reading it wrong?

[jellywrestler]

It was a hypothetical situation..... have you ever wondered what the world would be like without any hypothetical situations?

[wharfy]

If all bikes that did not complete the race distance for whatever reason had to taken to tech inspection (as a crashed bike would be) before returnintg to pits, then it would be able to ascertain the reason for stopping and then the fine could be issued. Youve been to Oz Choppa How do they do it there?

That could be handy if my bike stops - could be pretty embarrasing if I was doning the tech-inspection though !!
One thing to inspect a crashed bike to see if it is safe to race (as far as we can tell by looking and wiggeling things), quite another to diagnose the reason for a bike stopping.

So wiggle the bike from side to side if you can hear gas slopping about in the tank it's OK ? Dip the tank if the dip stick is wet is it OK ? or does there need to be a minimum amount left at the end of a race (similar to the battery must start the bike in some classes) ?

[SWERVE]

That could be handy if my bike stops - could be pretty embarrasing if I was doning the tech-inspection though !!
One thing to inspect a crashed bike to see if it is safe to race (as far as we can tell by looking and wiggeling things), quite another to diagnose the reason for a bike stopping.

So wiggle the bike from side to side if you can hear gas slopping about in the tank it's OK ? Dip the tank if the dip stick is wet is it OK ? or does there need to be a minimum amount left at the end of a race (similar to the battery must start the bike in some classes) ?

I wasnt meaning a free diagnosis of your bikes faults. Just a check to make sure fuel shortage was not the issue........ cos the rider aint gonna admit that is he (with a $ 4 hundy fine on the horizon) he gonna say its an electrical fault or similar. Because trying to prove it wasnt fuel after bike has been back to pit area and within 48 hrs would be............. difficult.
Listening to James Whitam commentating on BSB he says that now teams call every thing an electrical/system fault............. even an engine explosion (cos something electrical didnt do its job properly the engine blew up) :niceone:

Simple way to get matters sorted at the time and no need for improperly issued fines or appeals ........ should have to be no minimum..... if you are good enough to get your fuel reqiurements down to the last fumes and exit at end of race.. then good on ya. Even best in the world get it wrong sometimes........ and i bet they wish the fine was only $400.

[SWERVE]

6.4.1


A non competing riders rep may be selected by the Road Race commissioner prior to any champion series of 3 rounds or more, must be announced 90 days prior to the first round of such series on the MNZ website.


Reason:
It is unreasonable in the current regime to expect a rider to be available at all times as is required by the

I agree that a riders rep should be able to be a non riding non-comepetitor for the reasons given but I'm not sure about this rule re selecting the Riders rep 90 days prior to an event...and being selected by one person (RRC) rather than a general consensus of all the riders there on the day. Or am I reading it wrong?


Marcus............since when have you seen riders rep voted by general concensus! Usually lots of people looking at their feet when the question asked. 90 days would allow that person time to be briefed and consulted as to what that role is and how to carry it out correctly. This being of benefit to all concerned. And who choses them is irrelevent as long as the person chosen does the job correctly. Billy would have a good idea of who could apply a balance of procedure and common sense.

[Billy]

6.4.1


A non competing riders rep may be selected by the Road Race commissioner prior to any champion series of 3 rounds or more, must be announced 90 days prior to the first round of such series on the MNZ website.


Reason:
It is unreasonable in the current regime to expect a rider to be available at all times as is required by the

I agree that a riders rep should be able to be a non riding non-comepetitor for the reasons given but I'm not sure about this rule re selecting the Riders rep 90 days prior to an event...and being selected by one person (RRC) rather than a general consensus of all the riders there on the day. Or am I reading it wrong?


Yip,

Its a hard one,But I don't see any other way of doing it and having the right person in the job,The whole idea of having it made known who that would be,Is that if there is seen to be any conflict,There is plenty of time to get it sorted.

I am open to suggestions from all members and have a fair idea of the sort of person required for the job,My first choice was to have had Scrivy take the postion on,As he has a very good working knowledge of the rules and is not shy of a confrontation with MNZ if he thinks the riders are being mucked around so to speak,Unfortunately,He has indicated the position is not something he wants to do,But that is the sort of person we will require,Also don't lose sight of the fact there will still be a rep selected from the competitors present on the day,So he can assist with details surrounding track condition etc.

This is not an attempt to have someone onboard who will be a puppet to the Stewards.Also bear in mind,I have no jurisdiction at the track,So theres nothing in it for me,Just trying to move the sport forward in a positive direction.

[Billy]

2 digits does seem to make it harder for competitors to secure a number they prefer....there are so many club levelled riders maybe numbers should only be given to senior licence holders, that way joe blogs who races once during a calendar year on his clubmans bikes doesn't steal some top levelled riders number?

Err,

So you haven't read the proposed rule change then???

[Biggles08]

Marcus............since when have you seen riders rep voted by general concensus! Usually lots of people looking at their feet when the question asked. 90 days would allow that person time to be briefed and consulted as to what that role is and how to carry it out correctly. This being of benefit to all concerned. And who choses them is irrelevent as long as the person chosen does the job correctly. Billy would have a good idea of who could apply a balance of procedure and common sense.

True regarding looking at their feet and all...but the point being they are chosen/volunteer on the day and everyone has the opportunity to publically object and/or make suggestions if they wishe to. The whole point of a riders rep (as I understand it) is to represent the riders competing at the event. The point I was making is this rule will make an MNZ official (RRC) be the one doing the appointing...has this not got potential for conflicting interests?

[Biggles08]

Yip,
Also don't lose sight of the fact there will still be a rep selected from the competitors present on the day,So he can assist with details surrounding track condition etc.

This is not an attempt to have someone onboard who will be a puppet to the Stewards.Also bear in mind,I have no jurisdiction at the track,So theres nothing in it for me,Just trying to move the sport forward in a positive direction.


Oh right, I didn't realize there would be someone else appointed on the day by the riders also (is that written somewhere I missed?). I guess it makes more sense now. Is the person appointed by the RRC going to be in the position for a certain period of time then? Also, I guess they will have to attend all the meetings while they hold that position?

[Billy]

Oh right, I didn't realize there would be someone else appointed on the day by the riders also (is that written somewhere I missed?). I guess it makes more sense now. Is the person appointed by the RRC going to be in the position for a certain period of time then? Also, I guess they will have to attend all the meetings while they hold that position?

Yip,

They will be onboard for all of any series they have agreed to,This also means,Series like the Suzuki series or Vic club Bridgestone series can adopt the same process and means the non riding rep can concentrate on the job in hand and the competing rep can assist when he's available,The rulebook already allows for both,Just that at present they both have to be elected on the day and cannot be a member of the host club,Makes it near impossible to get the right person in the job.

[CHOPPA]

Yip,But,That was the coroners recommendation following the deaths of Derek Hill and Phillip Harrison at Puke in 08,No action was taken following that recomendation and since then we've had a similar situation at Manfeild which resulted in another death,Not a good look,Its an easy fix,Just deal with it.

I welcome the rule, no reason to run your bike that low on fuel

[Mental Trousers]

Yip,

They will be onboard for all of any series they have agreed to,This also means,Series like the Suzuki series or Vic club Bridgestone series can adopt the same process and means the non riding rep can concentrate on the job in hand and the competing rep can assist when he's available,The rulebook already allows for both,Just that at present they both have to be elected on the day and cannot be a member of the host club,Makes it near impossible to get the right person in the job.

I like it. Often on the day there's only 1 or 2 people that have the experience and capabilities to do the job so there's little choice. But whoever gets it doesn't have the benefit of being prepared. So having the appointed rep and an elected-on-the-day rep as well is definitely a good thing.

This is also inline with most international series I think (not 100% sure of that though).

[Maido]

Billy, I am not happy, alot of these rules are starting to make good sense.......






well done.

[kiwi cowboy]

Any one got any links pics of whats expected of the chain sprocket guard so i know what to look for?.

[Mental Trousers]

Any one got any links pics of whats expected of the chain sprocket guard so i know what to look for?.

Google: chain toe guard

They're often refered to as a sharks tooth chain guard but trying to google for that will get you nowhere.

[tail_end_charlie]

Any one got any links pics of whats expected of the chain sprocket guard so i know what to look for?.

282157

Fairly sure this is what they are talking about (as seen on my Daytona). The swingarm on the Daytona ('06 675) has a mounting boss so that a chain guard can be attached. I would assume that most of the newer superbike and supersport bikes would have a similar arrangement. Not sure when they started putting those bosses on the swingarm though, so if you have an older bike it may not be such a simple 'purchase and install' item.

[CHOPPA]

Self tappers work mint lol

[Billy]

Billy, I am not happy, alot of these rules are starting to make good sense.......






well done.

Yea sorry mate,I promise not to do it again.......Must remember not to drink copious amounts of alcohol while formulating rulechanges :wings:

[miper]

Yea sorry mate,I promise not to do it again.......Must remember not to drink copious amounts of alcohol while formulating rulechanges :wings:

You could always supply us with copious quantities to consume whilst reading them..........:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[scracha]

swingarm though, so if you have an older bike it may not be such a simple 'purchase and install' item.

Be a fookin nightmare on some of the posties bikes TBH. But them's the rules.



22.6.2
Once the meeting has been declared wet, a rear facing flashing red LED light must be fitted and operational
Reason: New rule

Needs to be size, lumens and frequency restrictions. Ever followed a fucktard who doesn't know what rear fog lights are for? Now imagine it flashing. Also needs to say visible from various angles or summit. I know it sounds pedantic but some smart arse will put the LED under their seat etc.

I've found one for my bike though.
http://static2.wagen-shop.com/130-large/emoticon-led.jpg

[Billy]

Be a fookin nightmare on some of the posties bikes TBH. But them's the rules.


Needs to be size, lumens and frequency restrictions. Ever followed a fucktard who doesn't know what rear fog lights are for? Now imagine it flashing. Also needs to say visible from various angles or summit. I know it sounds pedantic but some smart arse will put the LED under their seat etc.

I've found one for my bike though.
http://static2.wagen-shop.com/130-large/emoticon-led.jpg

Good to see some positive feedback,Email me with your suggestions re frequency etc

There'll always be somebody who thinks they can get away with a pisstake,Not sure what it is they think theyre achieving,Like the clown who signed his infringement notice with "Mickey Mouse",Nice surprise coming his way in the not to distant future :laugh:

[Maido]

Be a fookin nightmare on some of the posties bikes TBH. But them's the rules.


Needs to be size, lumens and frequency restrictions. Ever followed a fucktard who doesn't know what rear fog lights are for? Now imagine it flashing. Also needs to say visible from various angles or summit. I know it sounds pedantic but some smart arse will put the LED under their seat etc.

I've found one for my bike though.
http://static2.wagen-shop.com/130-large/emoticon-led.jpg

Good points, I would maybe take it off a push bike style flashing light. That way they are cheap (around $20-$40) and can be mounted practically anywhere (and removed quickly if necessary) as well as running of their own batteries which saves hassle.

[lostinflyz]

I welcome the rule, no reason to run your bike that low on fuel

and if your fuel line is blocked/bursts? or the fuse on the fuel pump/injectors goes? Dead battery? Loss of ignition? - all of these can cause a bike to run out of fuel.... not just fuel...

The issue is a bike stopping on track? The fine needs to be all or nothing does it not? I remember alot of conversation about this several years ago, but it never got put in place. surely there were reasons...

[neil_cb125t]

and if your fuel line is blocked/bursts? or the fuse on the fuel pump/injectors goes? Dead battery? Loss of ignition? - all of these can cause a bike to run out of fuel.... not just fuel...

The issue is a bike stopping on track? The fine needs to be all or nothing does it not? I remember alot of conversation about this several years ago, but it never got put in place. surely there were reasons...

Yeah there are other ways a bike will stop for sure, we had a car battery charger problem, i.e the batt charger was poked so when we went out for the 3rd session my bike ( running total loss) stopped dead.....The charger said it was charging but mr shorai just run out of go..... I don't think mechanicals should be punished that racing but if you put 3 litres of fuel in when you need 4 to finish a race........

I think thou that if you bike stops out on the track and when you are rescued if your tank is dry then slap that man or woman on the face.:spanking:

[Billy]

and if your fuel line is blocked/bursts? or the fuse on the fuel pump/injectors goes? Dead battery? Loss of ignition? - all of these can cause a bike to run out of fuel.... not just fuel...

The issue is a bike stopping on track? The fine needs to be all or nothing does it not? I remember alot of conversation about this several years ago, but it never got put in place. surely there were reasons...

Try reading the whole thread,Post 15 should clear it up for you

[codgyoleracer]

The issue is a bike stopping on track? The fine needs to be all or nothing does it not? I remember a lot of conversation about this several years ago, but it never got put in place. surely there were reasons...

Yes there were reasons, - But as Billy has said before. if a submission doesn't go through the first time, your meant to keep submitting it year after year after year after year. As all records are apparently lost come end of year and the whole process starts again........

How one plans to enforce this type of rule, consistently and without someone getting a punch in the snoz occasionaly i don't know.......

[jasonu]

Google: chain toe guard

They're often refered to as a sharks tooth chain guard but trying to google for that will get you nowhere.

Sharks FIN chain guard is the term I have heard. They have been on MX bikes for ages.

[rastus]

Nick Cole has one on his bike. He got it from Liam Venter from Fast Bike Gear. He is also on Face book.Mean't to say for the brake lever.

[Billy]

Yes there were reasons, - But as Billy has said before. if a submission doesn't go through the first time, your meant to keep submitting it year after year after year after year. As all records are apparently lost come end of year and the whole process starts again........



Wow....You really are on to it,If I kept everybodies submissions on file that didn't go through and resubmitted them,Why would you think they would go through?????

You have heard the saying"The first sign of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result" Aye ?

If you want a submission that has been turned down earlier,To go through,You'd furnish us with some more compelling reason's it should....Wouldn't you ????

Better for you to keep 4 or 5 emails on file and resubmit with some more info,Than for me to keep everybodies submissions on file forever.

[Kevin G]

Any one got any links pics of whats expected of the chain sprocket guard so i know what to look for?.

The good guys at Race Supplies have them in stock...special ones for some models generic one for others. GB Racing brand as pictured earlier.
sales@racesupplies.co.nz

[codgyoleracer]

Wow....You really are on to it,If I kept everybodies submissions on file that didn't go through and resubmitted them,Why would you think they would go through?????

You have heard the saying"The first sign of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result" Aye ?

If you want a submission that has been turned down earlier,To go through,You'd furnish us with some more compelling reason's it should....Wouldn't you ????

Better for you to keep 4 or 5 emails on file and resubmit with some more info,Than for me to keep everybodies submissions on file forever.


HaHa, If the first sign of madness is doing the same thing over and over again, you better quit telling everyone and sundry to refer to the appropriate channels , otherwise you'll be getting introduced to that straightjacket even earlier than expected........ :-)

[codgyoleracer]

The good guys at Race Supplies have them in stock...special ones for some models generic one for others. GB Racing brand as pictured earlier.
sales@racesupplies.co.nz

I didnt know that staff had increased by 100% recently ?, "guys" ?

[discodan]

Just putting it out there, would you guys prefer a blinking led or just a solid led light on the tail? I'm thinking it could be distracting following a bunch of bikes each with thier own flashing light.

[SWERVE]

Just putting it out there, would you guys prefer a blinking led or just a solid led light on the tail? I'm thinking it could be distracting following a bunch of bikes each with thier own flashing light.

The "Cat eye" branded bike ones are real good and easily mounted .... and can be set to slow blinking / fast blinking or permenantly on. About $30

[CHOPPA]

The "Cat eye" branded bike ones are real good and easily mounted .... and can be set to slow blinking / fast blinking or permenantly on. About $30

Thats a good idea!

Also yes I like the constant on.... Better put in the submission

[neil_cb125t]

Just putting it out there, would you guys prefer a blinking led or just a solid led light on the tail? I'm thinking it could be distracting following a bunch of bikes each with thier own flashing light.

All lights will be a pain in my a55, but a solid one I think would be LESS distracting

[Str8 Jacket]

HaHa, If the first sign of madness is doing the same thing over and over again, you better quit telling everyone and sundry to refer to the appropriate channels , otherwise you'll be getting introduced to that straightjacket even earlier than expected........ :-)

I think we may have already met....! ;)

[Mental Trousers]

All lights will be a pain in my a55, but a solid one I think would be LESS distracting

You're doing it wrong.

Definitely a solid red light.

[Billy]

HaHa, If the first sign of madness is doing the same thing over and over again, you better quit telling everyone and sundry to refer to the appropriate channels , otherwise you'll be getting introduced to that straightjacket even earlier than expected........ :-)

Bwahahaha,Already in the straightjacket,They locked me in it before they told me I was the new commissioner,Apparently it doesn't get unlocked until my term is over.

[Mental Trousers]

The "Cat eye" branded bike ones are real good and easily mounted .... and can be set to slow blinking / fast blinking or permenantly on. About $30

.... or $3.50 + P&P (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?sort_order=buynow_asc&searchString=cycle+red+light&rptpath=0005-&type=Search&searchType=3983&generalSearch_keypresses=15&generalSearch_suggested=0) on TradeMe

[RobGassit]

Someones gonna make a killing selling all this new gear, especially all the belly pans,,,,:buggerd:

[kiwi cowboy]

I'm glad to see the proposed rules on machine safety as I don't ever want to be that guy who stopped a meeting cos he covered the track in oil or whatever. Does anybodies bike already comply with all of the proposed rules?

All rules - http://www.mnz.co.nz/regulations/rules/general-rules
Full list of rule changes - http://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/regulations/summary-of-all-proposed-rule-changes-for-website.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Current rule 10.13


Machine safety proposed changes.


Yes. I always took this as being a no-brainer and did it anyway.



Not yet. Will do soon.



Yep.



Yep



Will do before my next race meeting



Optional but I've got one fitted anyway
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=brake+lever+guard&_nkwusc=brake+lever+gaurd&_rdc=1



Been looking for one of these for a while but I haven't found one that

doesn't involve drilling the swing arm
doesn't look retarded

Anyone found any that fit those two criteria for a 2005 CBR600RR??

Do fairings count as crash protection or do i need covers of kevlar type inside them too?.
Had a high speed slide at terotonga 8 months ago and farings looked after everything well and didnt break at all.

[Billy]

Someones gonna make a killing selling all this new gear, especially all the belly pans,,,,:buggerd:

Yip,

Glen at just fairings,Teed it up with him waaaaay before we even decided on the rule change,Un less its for a Ninja,Then you need to call me or try oversea's,That said I'm sure there are other options and most of the newer generation stuff available for the 6 hundies and Supers already have the enclosed Bellypans....Nice try at stirring shit all the same.But I was well aware that someody would and so I took a step back,Plus its a bastard of a job anyways LMFAO!!!

[Mental Trousers]

22.8.18
All lateral engine cases containing oil or water and which could contact the ground during a crash, must be protected by a second cover made from composite materials, type carbon or Kevlar, or be fitted with heavy duty crash resistant end cases made from solid metal plates and or bars made from alloy or steel all must be resistant to sudden shock
Reason: To reduce the incidence of oil or water left on the track following a crash



Do fairings count as crash protection or do i need covers of kevlar type inside them too?.
Had a high speed slide at terotonga 8 months ago and farings looked after everything well and didnt break at all.

Fairings aren't an engine cover?

[kiwi cowboy]

Fairings aren't an engine cover?

well they cover the engine but the way i read the wording i thought the rule may have meant the second cover had to be attached to the area concerned.

[Grumph]

well thats going to be a complete bastard for alot of us classics guys but thems the rules.

No it's not - 22.8 refers to the ROAD RACE CHAMPIONSHIPS....so unless and until Classics and Posties have a National Championship it doesn't apply there or at club level.

If the intent was to apply it across all road racing it should have gone in Motorcycles Technical or as a separate rule in Section 22.

[Drew]

Lock wiring caliper bolts is a pain in the arse, for no real safety gain. Forgetting to do them up is not changed, and I've certainly never seen them come loose on their own.

That one's dumb, the rest make sense.

[Bykmad]

Lock wiring caliper bolts is a pain in the arse, for no real safety gain. Forgetting to do them up is not changed, and I've certainly never seen them come loose on their own.

That one's dumb, the rest make sense.

Over the years I have seen caliper bolts "fall out" of competitors machines. Bolts are only as good as the nut who is operating the Torque Wrench!!! Never say never, it will always bite you!!!

[Grumph]

Lock wiring caliper bolts is a pain in the arse, for no real safety gain. Forgetting to do them up is not changed, and I've certainly never seen them come loose on their own.

That one's dumb, the rest make sense.

Agreed - if the idea is to keep them tight, you should use either #8 lockwire or studs with castellated nuts and splitpins or lock tabs.
All lockwire tells you is, if it's broken, the bolt's moved, if it hasn't it's still tight.

when I started, a lot of the experienced guys used copper wire - they knew it was just an indicator if the bolt had moved. If it's now compulsory to wire, I'll use copper again.

The last thing we need in NZ is to go like the US - have a look at the AMA and Vintage race rules on lockwiring....anal or what ?

[yungatart]

Bwahahaha,Already in the straightjacket,They locked me in it before they told me I was the new commissioner,Apparently it doesn't get unlocked until my term is over.

Is that what they told you? Ah ha...riiiight...

[Buddha#81]

Lock wiring caliper bolts is a pain in the arse, for no real safety gain. Forgetting to do them up is not changed, and I've certainly never seen them come loose on their own.

That one's dumb, the rest make sense.

I agree with Drew on this, I have done thousands of oil changes (road going) and have never seen a sump bung come loose........seen a couple left loose. I'm more of a fan of locktite or a torque wrench.......soon bikes will be fully lock wired to keep dumb people safe.

but rules are rules and comply we will.

[kiwi cowboy]

No it's not - 22.8 refers to the ROAD RACE CHAMPIONSHIPS....so unless and until Classics and Posties have a National Championship it doesn't apply there or at club level.

If the intent was to apply it across all road racing it should have gone in Motorcycles Technical or as a separate rule in Section 22.

Bloody hell your quick.
I only posted that and then edited it about 5 seconds later:laugh:.

[kiwi cowboy]

I agree with Drew on this, I have done thousands of oil changes (road going) and have never seen a sump bung come loose........seen a couple left loose. I'm more of a fan of locktite or a torque wrench.......soon bikes will be fully lock wired to keep dumb people safe.

but rules are rules and comply we will.

Im a fan of torque wrenches too and use it all the time on the bike.
The numpty that changed the oil on thr fzr i just bought could have used one on yje oil bung- could have saved my next job of removing the exaust and sump.:ar15::ar15:

[Billy]

Lock wiring caliper bolts is a pain in the arse, for no real safety gain. Forgetting to do them up is not changed, and I've certainly never seen them come loose on their own.

That one's dumb, the rest make sense.

I believe the PROPOSED rule change say's,Lockwired or pinned in the tightened position,IE If you were to drill through the bolthead and insert an "R" clip through the hole that would prevent the bolthead from turning,That would be acceptable.

Personally,I always take the time to lockwire mine as to me it's a no brainer.

[SWERVE]

Or as i do with the fairing stay R clips and the front/rear axle R clips.......... wire the clip to each other or the bike at the top. Then you dont lose clip when you remove it and you dont have to keep rewiring each time you undo it. Just simply slide the clip the the loop in wire enough to remove it. More than one occasion over the last two seasons have front calipers become detached on race bikes (it tends to get hushed up- for fear of embarrasment):laugh: Thankfully without consequences. agree it should be tight..but at least if its nipped but not tightened but wired it wont undo completely. The knocking sound / spongy lever and grabbing brakes should serve as first warning that all is not well:eek:

Hey Billy its taken longer than i thought for the "belly pan" card to be played:msn-wink:

[Billy]

Hey Billy its taken longer than i thought for the "belly pan" card to be played:msn-wink:

Haha,Yip...Didn't see that coming,Thats why I tidied that area up with Glen way back.

[Billy]

No it's not - 22.8 refers to the ROAD RACE CHAMPIONSHIPS....so unless and until Classics and Posties have a National Championship it doesn't apply there or at club level.

If the intent was to apply it across all road racing it should have gone in Motorcycles Technical or as a separate rule in Section 22.

Nope,The intent is for any machine competing at a National points round(NZSBK),I'm sure if it needs rewording or moving to another section.The standing rules committee will deal with it accordingly.

[Drew]

I don't want an argument for a change. I'm just saying, it's a pain in the arse and wont make a blind bit of difference to the occasional brain fart of not putting a spanner to them at all. Those bikes will just be missing a tiny piece of wire...and functional brakes.

[Grumph]

Nope,The intent is for any machine competing at a National points round(NZSBK),I'm sure if it needs rewording or moving to another section.The standing rules committee will deal with it accordingly.

Ok....but the decision needs to be made, applies to all or only to some. As it's worded and placed, I don't see it applying to the support classes at national rounds who don't race for a national championship.
I understand the perceived need to match FIM regs, just want to see a better job done of applying the rule.

[Grumph]

I don't want an argument for a change. I'm just saying, it's a pain in the arse and wont make a blind bit of difference to the occasional brain fart of not putting a spanner to them at all. Those bikes will just be missing a tiny piece of wire...and functional brakes.

You got Budda and me agreeing with you...shut up and bask in the very rare enjoyment....i doubt it'll happen again.

[RobGassit]

One advantage to Lock wiring is that it can be seen to be correctly fastened by rider and scrutineers at a glance.

[Maido]

Good reason for lockwiring caliper bolts. I have heard at least 3 stories (actually more like nightmares) from prominent NZ racers past and present who have had bolts come out while racing. And we all saw Stroudy's caliper hanging off a few years back. Mistakes happen, especially under pressure.

If you run the rule specifically as something like: you drill the bolts, insert small R clips into said holes and run lock wire between them (it should be done this specific way).
Doing it this way does 2 thing, firstly even if the bolts aren't correctly tightened the won't turn any more as the arrangement of the R clips and lock wire will prevent them turning. (also hard wiring the bolts in means you have to cut the wire each time, R clips make install and removal much quicker)
Secondly you are done changing your wheel in a hurry in time for that next session and you look down and see your lockwire there, whoops I had forgotten to tighten the brakes, so it works like a reminder as well. It takes 3 seconds to install the lockwire.

It really doesn't matter if your a great mechanic and use a torque wrench (good for you though), if you have a guy who has not much mechanical sense and is working on his/her own bike it is easy to forget. It takes 5 minutes to drill the four holes and it could save alot of drama.

[RobGassit]

Haha,Yip...Didn't see that coming,Thats why I tidied that area up with Glen way back.

I thought you only responded to enquiries through the official MNZ channels or on the MNZ Website. :bleh:

[Billy]

One advantage to Lock wiring is that it can be seen to be correctly fastened by rider and scrutineers at a glance.

Yip,

Funnily enough the rest of the world think it's a good idea,Apparently theyre all uninformed????

Theres always going to be a group of people who will rubbish any ideas implemented and they appear to be the same group time and again,Quite funny really.The best part is when they actually turn up at the track with their MNZ jackets on and start disrupting the officials actually doing the job,Golf anybody?

[RobGassit]

Yip,

Funnily enough the rest of the world think it's a good idea,Apparently theyre all uninformed????

Theres always going to be a group of people who will rubbish any ideas implemented and they appear to be the same group time and again,Quite funny really.The best part is when they actually turn up at the track with their MNZ jackets on and start disrupting the officials actually doing the job,Golf anybody?

Who in their right mind would voluntarily wear an MNZ jacket?

[Billy]

Who in their right mind would voluntarily wear an MNZ jacket?

Not me,But then again I wouldn't wear a Policemans uniform either :wings::wings::wings:

[FROSTY]

Last July I applied for my senior MNZ licience, I had heard about the new 2 digit number rule (I have been 176 for 5 years or so), so I tried approx 20 different 2 digit numbers none of which were available. When I punched in my old number 176 it accepted it. My current MNZ licience states my race number is 176....Think MNZ needs to change the registration procedure so that next licence year this isn't possible i.e change the limitations on the online form.....then we'll let the sh*t fight over the 89 race numbers begin......cause that make sense!
I'm happy to stand corrected here mon (he says grabbing for his 09 rule book) But isn't your math a fair bit out?
Allowing that the first 10 numbers in each National class arent available that leaves 89 numbers PER CLASS Which means 89 times however national classes there are that year.
Anyhoo its a fair few more than 89

[FROSTY]

I like all the proposed rule changes. It all looks like just plain common sense stuff to me.
Why wouldn't you use case savers? Why not r clip your caliper bolts?Why not fit a shark fin.

The ONLY question I would raise is the running out of fuel rule.
In the case of a race restart 2-4 laps into the race would the current situation stand or would competitors be allowed a splash and dash pitstop?
Also would that rule encompass outlaps after flag drop?

[Drew]

Yip,

Funnily enough the rest of the world think it's a good idea,Apparently theyre all uninformed????

Theres always going to be a group of people who will rubbish any ideas implemented and they appear to be the same group time and again,Quite funny really.The best part is when they actually turn up at the track with their MNZ jackets on and start disrupting the officials actually doing the job,Golf anybody?
Fuck it, clearly it really is impossible to have a discussion on here without words being put in ones mouth.

I'll toddle off and be disruptive someplace else.

[manxkiwi]

Just throwing this into the 'pot': Has anyone heard of using silcone sealant on fastners? It seems a wee blob between the head of the fastner and the solid part it's mounting to is as good as lockwiring! I was very surprised myself, but the guy in our garage at the TT got scutineered and raced with such. Apparently many others do too.

Just sayin', that's all.

[SWERVE]

Just throwing this into the 'pot': Has anyone heard of using silcone sealant on fastners? It seems a wee blob between the head of the fastner and the solid part it's mounting to is as good as lockwiring! I was very surprised myself, but the guy in our garage at the TT got scutineered and raced with such. Apparently many others do too.

Just sayin', that's all.

That probebly works fine as long as you have no contaminant on the surfaces - its heat and brake fliuid resistant - its had time to cure properly. Some adhesive selants are the business...Lotus have glued their chassis together for a while now. I had some of that (it was German product) once it was on it wasnt coming off in a hurry. Still think lockwire/clips are better as they are visual to both competitor and scrutineer. IMHO

[RobGassit]

I think we should make all the lockwiring be in a rescue orange colour, so the flag marshals can clearly see it when you pass their point.:facepalm:

[SWERVE]

I think we should make all the lockwiring be in a rescue orange colour, so the flag marshals can clearly see it when you pass their point.:facepalm:

Actually lockwire in a flouro colour (coated) aint a bad idea.......... ive got some black coated stuff from Hunting & Fishing.<_<

[Souther flags]

Hell Dont flaggies see enough all ready.

[Dave-]

I read this thread a few days ago and started wondering about the rear facing red flahing light spec, I came here to ask about it and see others have raised concerns too.

I think it should flash, I think the theory behind the flashing is that a flashing light is easier to get a reference in terms of a change in distance as opposed to an always on light - I could be wrong, I can nip over to the psychology department and ask though? I think if it's annoying it's just more motivation to try and pass the guy haha, honestly though it cant be any more annoying than an exhaust?

I had a quick zoom around the internet and couldn't find any safety regs for motorcycle racing (the FIA system for reading the rules and regs is super dumb)

I did find the formula 1 rules though, interestingly even FIA technical doesn't state a frequency or duty cycle, i assume it's tied into the FIA designated manufacturer (and it probably costs 14 million euro's)


14.5 Rear light:
All cars must have a red light in working order throughout the Event which:
- has been supplied by an FIA designated manufacturer;
- faces rearwards at 90° to the car centre line and the reference plane;
- is clearly visible from the rear;
- is mounted nominally on the car centre line;
- is mounted 300mm (+/-5mm) above the reference plane;
- is no less than 595mm behind the rear wheel centre line measured parallel to the reference plane;
- can be switched on by the driver when seated normally in the car.
The two measurements above will be taken to the centre of the rear face of the light unit.

How about how it is mounted? is velco enough? personally I think it should be fixed, clipped on is acceptable.

[Deano]

I might have some difficulty trying to hold three litres of fluid in my belly pan. I've had to cut a fair bit away so it doesn't fowl on the exhaust. I wonder if the rule will be specific as to area dimensions and exact location.

[RobGassit]

I might have some difficulty trying to hold three litres of fluid in my belly pan. I've had to cut a fair bit away so it doesn't fowl on the exhaust. I wonder if the rule will be specific as to area dimensions and exact location.

It should be fine. Figure out how much your belly pan WILL hold and then only put that much in your engine. Ezy Peezy..

[codgyoleracer]

I might have some difficulty trying to hold three litres of fluid in my belly pan. I've had to cut a fair bit away so it doesn't fowl on the exhaust. I wonder if the rule will be specific as to area dimensions and exact location.

Actually 3 litres when spread out in a long-ish belly pan aint that deep. Obviously this proposed rule will assist to some extent but nothing can truly "seal" the oil into/onto your bike. (babysteps)

[codgyoleracer]

Just putting it out there, would you guys prefer a blinking led or just a solid led light on the tail? I'm thinking it could be distracting following a bunch of bikes each with thier own flashing light.


Umm, flashing type will indeed be highly visable in instances of rain, dim light, spray etc. Sort of the point though innit ?

[SWERVE]

I might have some difficulty trying to hold three litres of fluid in my belly pan. I've had to cut a fair bit away so it doesn't fowl on the exhaust. I wonder if the rule will be specific as to area dimensions and exact location.

Deano.. i thought exactly the same at weekend when i was fitting bodywork to the SV (yes it will soon be back on track) But i had an idea... as the SV belly pan is quite long and the front section is deep (under sump) and rear section tapers off (and does require cutting to miss exhaust) im going to glass in a DAM across the bellypan just behind the engine to contain oil etc in the front half... (still holds way more than 3litres.

[malcy25]

Umm, flashing type will indeed be highly visable in instances of rain, dim light, spray etc. Sort of the point though innit ?

This I don't think is a bad idea....if you want to see what is available these days, pop down to your local up spec push bike shop and have a squiz at some of the units they sell for <$50. Tiny, lighter than a light thing (no pun..!) elastic mount, USB chargeable, long run time and many have hard on (no pun...) or flashing different rate. Bright as buggery too.

My treadly one is about 2cm wide, 3 cm high and <1 cm deep, lasts 6+ hours of flashing, bright enough to hurt the eyes at night

http://www.hotcycles.co.nz/products/gem-3-usb-red-led/

[scorry]

What if its starts raining during the first 2/3's of a race then the race gets red flagged?
You arent allowed to tamper with the bike - including changing tyres :weird:
You cant fit the red light until you pit under racing conditions.
So therefore if you restart with a red light, you could get protested and if you restart (still on slicks i may add) without one you are also breaching the rules
So... does that mean that if it looks like rain the light should be fitted and working?
Therefore racing at Teretonga a light needs to be fitted full time, cos who knows what the weather will do down there

[Dave-]

What if its starts raining during the first 2/3's of a race then the race gets red flagged?
You arent allowed to tamper with the bike - including changing tyres :weird:
You cant fit the red light until you pit under racing conditions.
So therefore if you restart with a red light, you could get protested and if you restart (still on slicks i may add) without one you are also breaching the rules
So... does that mean that if it looks like rain the light should be fitted and working?
Therefore racing at Teretonga a light needs to be fitted full time, cos who knows what the weather will do down there

Or you could just put a switch on the dash?

I think the rule needs to stipulate too that the light be mounted on the middle at the very end tip of the bike, and that this point must be further back than the rear wheel, otherwise there's no point in having the rule.

[arkeye]

What if its starts raining during the first 2/3's of a race then the race gets red flagged?
You arent allowed to tamper with the bike - including changing tyres :weird:
You cant fit the red light until you pit under racing conditions.
So therefore if you restart with a red light, you could get protested and if you restart (still on slicks i may add) without one you are also breaching the rules
So... does that mean that if it looks like rain the light should be fitted and working?
Therefore racing at Teretonga a light needs to be fitted full time, cos who knows what the weather will do down there


The wording of the proposed rule answers this...


Once the meeting has been declared wet, a rear facing flashing red LED light must be fitted and operational

If a race is red flagged and then declared wet, they have to give you sufficient time to adjust your bike before the restart.

If it starts raining and the meeting has not been 'declared wet', you just carry on without the red light

[slowpoke]

Therefore racing at Teretonga a light needs to be fitted full time, cos who knows what the weather will do down there

People race at Teretonga? REALLY?! Go figure......

[steveyb]

"Race" might be overstating it somewhat.

[Drew]

People race at Teretonga? REALLY?! Go figure......


"Race" might be overstating it somewhat.

Swim, freeze, and mope are common adjectives associated with that location. More so than 'race' at least.

[Maido]

Swim, freeze, and mope are common adjectives associated with that location. More so than 'race' at least.

have you ever raced there Drew?

[Deano]

Deano.. i thought exactly the same at weekend when i was fitting bodywork to the SV (yes it will soon be back on track) But i had an idea... as the SV belly pan is quite long and the front section is deep (under sump) and rear section tapers off (and does require cutting to miss exhaust) im going to glass in a DAM across the bellypan just behind the engine to contain oil etc in the front half... (still holds way more than 3litres.

Yeah there are always options - the dam may have to fit around the zorst also - might need a heat proof rubber moulding to stop the glass burning.

[jellywrestler]

Swim, freeze, and mope are common adjectives associated with that location. More so than 'race' at least.

teretonga rocks, rain hail or snow, it's just the wind that's a maggot

[Drew]

teretonga rocks, rain hail or snow, it's just the wind that's a maggot
Craig. and Jay say the same thing. Cross wind down the back straight is a killer.

I've never been there, and have no immediate plans unless they have sidecars at the Burt Monroe.

[Dave-]

Just clarifying the wording of this new rule.


Rule 22.6.2
Once the meeting has been declared wet, are rear facing red LED light must be fitted and operational. The light must be fitted to the motorcycle and in a position that is visible to any following rider and be of a minimum size of 25mm and maximum of 45mm.

While I don't care too much for proper spelling and grammar, especially on an internet forum, I would expect an official document from Motorcycling New Zealand to at least be proof read (if you can't spot it, read the first sentence out loud, word for word).

Secondly most of the technical details of the rule can be assumed with common sense, but I would have expected better wording surrounding the dimensions of this rear facing LED light.

My interpretation is that a light has 2 dimensions (it has 3, but we'll keep it simple), the smallest dimension must be greater than 25mm and the largest dimension must be smaller than 45mm. To say it differently would be that each dimension must be between 25mm and 45mm. Am I right? I might be wrong? happy to be wrong, cause then I can be right!

[Drew]

Just clarifying the wording of this new rule.



While I don't care too much for proper spelling and grammar, especially on an internet forum, I would expect an official document from Motorcycling New Zealand to at least be proof read (if you can't spot it, read the first sentence out loud, word for word).

Secondly most of the technical details of the rule can be assumed with common sense, but I would have expected better wording surrounding the dimensions of this rear facing LED light.

My interpretation is that a light has 2 dimensions (it has 3, but we'll keep it simple), the smallest dimension must be greater than 25mm and the largest dimension must be smaller than 45mm. To say it differently would be that each dimension must be between 25mm and 45mm. Am I right? I might be wrong? happy to be wrong, cause then I can be right!The MNZ rules are fucken appaling, for grammatical errors. Front to back.

[Bykmad]

Why aren't these rules in Motorcycles Technical??? The same applies to Lock Wiring Brake Calipers. These rules should apply to ALL Road Race Machines. Incidents don't only happen at Championship Events.

[Grumph]

Why aren't these rules in Motorcycles Technical??? The same applies to Lock Wiring Brake Calipers. These rules should apply to ALL Road Race Machines. Incidents don't only happen at Championship Events.

I agree that this type of rule should be in Motorcycles technical. It would seem though that no other discipline needs a rear light in wet conditions....

BUT I disagree with the encroaching creep of lockwiring. All lockwiring does is show you when something's moved by breaking...Having anything lockwired does not guarantee it's tight. OR that it will remain tight.
People may point to the yanks for example - the AMA and AHRMA are positively anal in their lockwiring rules. BUT most of that is to avoid potential insurance liability claims....

[malcy25]

has anyone who wrote the rule actually investigated what is available? Size is not a indicator of performance (LOL!).....I've got a really great little light that is probably less than the min size and blinding in power and there are other really good long narrow ones...

[Billy]

Why aren't these rules in Motorcycles Technical??? The same applies to Lock Wiring Brake Calipers. These rules should apply to ALL Road Race Machines. Incidents don't only happen at Championship Events.


I agree that this type of rule should be in Motorcycles technical. It would seem though that no other discipline needs a rear light in wet conditions....

BUT I disagree with the encroaching creep of lockwiring. All lockwiring does is show you when something's moved by breaking...Having anything lockwired does not guarantee it's tight. OR that it will remain tight.
People may point to the yanks for example - the AMA and AHRMA are positively anal in their lockwiring rules. BUT most of that is to avoid potential insurance liability claims....


has anyone who wrote the rule actually investigated what is available? Size is not a indicator of performance (LOL!).....I've got a really great little light that is probably less than the min size and blinding in power and there are other really good long narrow ones...

Wow,

Some really good feedback here,Pity you "EXPERTS" couldn't be arsed following the MNZ protocols and have your submissions in the correct place at the correct time,TOO LATE NOW!!!!

Still,Wouldnt expect folks that have your fellas sort of experience to actually know how the system works,Especially seeing as 2 of ya's are stewards and 1 is an ex roadrace commissioner,Go figure aye,The MNZ knocking machine has now extended to include those in the system.

Yip,The size was investigated and I have one on my machine as does Daniel Mettam and Glen Williams,Don't know where they got theirs,But I bought mine at Mt cycles,$15 retail,Visibility of a minimum 80 metres,Still I'd expext Alister would know all that....being a cyclist and all,Oh and the new rules will be included for ALL classes for 2015 if the board will allow it,Just trying to ease the competitors into it,Any other expert advice would be better sent to the correct people through the correct channels at the appropriate time.

[malcy25]

Wow,


Yip,The size was investigated and I have one on my machine as does Daniel Mettam and Glen Williams,Don't know where they got theirs,But I bought mine at Mt cycles,$15 retail,Visibility of a minimum 80 metres,Still I'd expext Alister would know all that....being a cyclist and all,Oh and the new rules will be included for ALL classes for 2015 if the board will allow it,Just trying to ease the competitors into it,Any other expert advice would be better sent to the correct people through the correct channels at the appropriate time.

Good, glad you clarified it. I've been banging on here and elsewhere on wher you can get them, but until now, I'd not seen any size data and whether what was decreed was going to fit with what was readily available. :cool:

[Drew]

Good, glad you clarified it. I've been banging on here and elsewhere on wher you can get them, but until now, I'd not seen any size data and whether what was decreed was going to fit with what was readily available. :cool:Are you a steward, or the ex commissioner?

Doesn't really matter, since retardation like yours should have excluded you from either fucking role.

I have never once asked Billy a question, that he has said wasn't his area so he wouldn't answer it. Everyone has his email addy, and phone number. Why the hell wouldn't you ask him directly, before 'banging on here"?

[Deano]

BUT I disagree with the encroaching creep of lockwiring. All lockwiring does is show you when something's moved by breaking...Having anything lockwired does not guarantee it's tight. OR that it will remain tight.


I could be wrong but isn't the point of lockwiring the caliper bolts to stop the bolts and caliper coming off completely, causing a crash ?

It doesn't really matter if the bolts loosen a little as the lock wire will prevent a full rotation of the bolt.

[Drew]

I could be wrong but isn't the point of lockwiring the caliper bolts to stop the bolts and caliper coming off completely, causing a crash ?

It doesn't really matter if the bolts loosen a little as the lock wire will prevent a full rotation of the bolt.I don't agree with the lock wiring caliper bolts.

I don't think it makes anything safer. It's as likely to be missed, as tightening the bolts in the first place. Not that easy to spot on a bike rolling past a marshal either.

For someone like you bro, I can see it as a mind settling thing given you tendency to second guess yourself. But for it's intended purpose, it's just something else to fuck around with when trying to change a set of wheels, for the likes of me.

I'll tow the line of course, because I don't spanner that much these days anyway and it can't hurt after all.

[Grumph]

I could be wrong but isn't the point of lockwiring the caliper bolts to stop the bolts and caliper coming off completely, causing a crash ?

It doesn't really matter if the bolts loosen a little as the lock wire will prevent a full rotation of the bolt.

No it won't...lock wire will break. Anyone who raced a TD/TR/TZ back in the day will verify that lockwire will break.
The only way I know to positively lock this type of fastener is to use a plate beteen the bolts with bend up tads matching the flats on the heads.

Billy - you may have me confused with someone else - it's been many years since i was a steward - and i backed out of getting the COC qualification when i saw you giving out stewards tickets with them...NO thanks. So that was one of the most experienced COC's in the SI lost to you.
I can't even open the bloody MNZ website and have no need to be a member as all I do now is build and maintain the bikes.
In the old days of paper, I'd have learned through my club what was being proposed and had a chance to comment.
Call me a whining old cunt if you wish but I really don't like or see the neccessity for some of the rules you're bringing in....

[Dave-]

Wow,

Some really good feedback here,Pity you "EXPERTS" couldn't be arsed following the MNZ protocols and have your submissions in the correct place at the correct time,TOO LATE NOW!!!!

Still,Wouldnt expect folks that have your fellas sort of experience to actually know how the system works,Especially seeing as 2 of ya's are stewards and 1 is an ex roadrace commissioner,Go figure aye,The MNZ knocking machine has now extended to include those in the system.

Yip,The size was investigated and I have one on my machine as does Daniel Mettam and Glen Williams,Don't know where they got theirs,But I bought mine at Mt cycles,$15 retail,Visibility of a minimum 80 metres,Still I'd expext Alister would know all that....being a cyclist and all,Oh and the new rules will be included for ALL classes for 2015 if the board will allow it,Just trying to ease the competitors into it,Any other expert advice would be better sent to the correct people through the correct channels at the appropriate time.

I'm not offering feedback, I'm asking for clarification which is something done after a rule is set. I'll fire you an email as per protocol, you should send out the answer to the right people because there will be questions raised over this.

Please also take your time with the reply Billy, I by no means need an immediate answer.


No it won't...lock wire will break. Anyone who raced a TD/TR/TZ back in the day will verify that lockwire will break.
The only way I know to positively lock this type of fastener is to use a plate beteen the bolts with bend up tads matching the flats on the heads.

Billy - you may have me confused with someone else - it's been many years since i was a steward - and i backed out of getting the COC qualification when i saw you giving out stewards tickets with them...NO thanks. So that was one of the most experienced COC's in the SI lost to you.
I can't even open the bloody MNZ website and have no need to be a member as all I do now is build and maintain the bikes.
In the old days of paper, I'd have learned through my club what was being proposed and had a chance to comment.
Call me a whining old cunt if you wish but I really don't like or see the neccessity for some of the rules you're bringing in....

It is indeed designed to break, safety wire is an indicator not a restraint.

[Mental Trousers]

Lock wiring breaks. Best way to guarantee a bolt isn't going to vibrate loose is to put a dab of silicon under the head before tightening it. It acts like thread lock without getting the threads covered in shit.

However, R clips with lock wire is a good visual sign that you've attended to the caliper bolts because you don't put the pins/lock wire in until it's done. If the pins/lock wire isn't there you check them.

Haven't the side cars been running lights in the wet for a couple of years??

Personally, I think it's a good thing to bring alot of our rules inline with international standards.

[GD66]

Most of the MNZ rulebook nowadays resembles the Australian equivalent pretty closely, which makes a lot of sense considering the number of riders crossing the ditch in both directions to try their luck in a number of disciplines. Getting there...

[Kickaha]

Haven't the side cars been running lights in the wet for a couple of years??
Not at a NZ National or club level but they do in the UK or world champs

[malcy25]

Wow,

Some really good feedback here,Pity you "EXPERTS" couldn't be arsed following the MNZ protocols and have your submissions in the correct place at the correct time,TOO LATE NOW!!!!

Still,Wouldnt expect folks that have your fellas sort of experience to actually know how the system works,Especially seeing as 2 of ya's are stewards and 1 is an ex roadrace commissioner,Go figure aye,The MNZ knocking machine has now extended to include those in the system.


Hey Billy, I just checked back on my e-mails. I provided 11 bits of feedback on proposed rule changes to 2 different MNZ club reps to take to the conference. Does that not count?

Drew, you were coming across too normal for a change so I thought I'd swap places with ya!:girlfight:

[Dave-]

This is the official MotoGP regulation for wet races and the red light

1.20 "Wet" and "Dry" Races

All races will be categorised as either wet or dry. A board may be
displayed on the grid to indicate the status of the race. If no board is
displayed, the race is automatically dry. The purpose of this
classification is to indicate to riders the consequence of varying
climatic conditions during a race.


When a race is declared wet, either on the starting grid or by
display of the white flag after the start, every motorcycle must
have its Safety Light switched on (refer to Article 2.7.17).
The Race Director may also instruct riders to switch on safety
lights by means of a board displayed at the finish line (100cm
horizontal x 80cm vertical, black background with the word
“Light” in yellow). Safety lights must stay on until riders are
instructed to switch them off, such instruction will be
communicated by the same board displayed with the word
“Light” crossed out.

2.7.17 Safety Lights

All motorcycles must have a functioning red light mounted at the
rear of the machine to be used in rain or low visibility conditions,
as declared by Race Direction. Lights must comply with the
following:


a) lighting direction must be parallel to the machine centre
line (motorcycle running direction), and clearly visible from
the rear at least 15 degrees to both left and right sides of
the machine centre line.


b) mounted on the seat/rear bodywork behind the rear axle
line and approximately on the machine centre line. In case
of dispute over the mounting position or visibility, the
decision of the Technical Director will be final.
c) power output/luminosity equivalent to approximately:
10 – 15W (incandescent)
3 - 5W (LED)
d) able to be switched on and off by the rider when seated on
the machine.
e) safety light power supply can be separated from the
motorcycle main wiring and battery.

[Grumph]

That's clear and well written. WHY wasn't 2.17.7 adopted as it stands given that the vast majority of racebikes in NZ have on board battery power ?
I for one would like to be able to use other than LED lights.

[Deano]

For someone like you bro, I can see it as a mind settling thing given you tendency to second guess yourself.

Nah I'm all good with caliper bolts. Its sump plugs I often think I've under or over tightened. I'm much better than I used to be though - I'm learning to cope with my OCD LOL.



Lock wiring breaks.

Why does it break ? There is no appreciable load on it when a bolt tries to loosen is there ? Is it simply the vibration ?

[roogazza]

Nah I'm all good with caliper bolts. Its sump plugs I often think I've under or over tightened. I'm much better than I used to be though - I'm learning to cope with my OCD LOL.

Why does it break ? There is no appreciable load on it when a bolt tries to loosen is there ? Is it simply the vibration ?

Never heard of it myself Deano, motor Mech for many years and riding bikes for 50 !! Have seen caliper and sump bolts fall out tho, some causing accidents.
Lock wire, lock tabs and RTV stop bolts coming undone.
Must admit to OCD with sump bolts myself.

[Dave-]

Nah I'm all good with caliper bolts. Its sump plugs I often think I've under or over tightened. I'm much better than I used to be though - I'm learning to cope with my OCD LOL.




Why does it break ? There is no appreciable load on it when a bolt tries to loosen is there ? Is it simply the vibration ?


Never heard of it myself Deano, motor Mech for many years and riding bikes for 50 !! Have seen caliper and sump bolts fall out tho, some causing accidents.
Lock wire, lock tabs and RTV stop bolts coming undone.
Must admit to OCD with sump bolts myself.

Safety wire (or lock wire) is an indicator, it shows technical staff whether a bolt has undergone a torque sufficient to break the wire (which would be a considerable torque). The cause of that torque could be viabration or a part moving, it breaks because if it were stronger than the bolt then the bolt would break and that in most cases would be much worse.

[Drew]

Safety wire (or lock wire) is an indicator, it shows technical staff whether a bolt has undergone a torque sufficient to break the wire (which would be a considerable torque). The cause of that torque could be viabration or a part moving, it breaks because if it were stronger than the bolt then the bolt would break and that in most cases would be much worse.

That, is the worst explaination I have ever heard for the use of lock wire!

[Mental Trousers]

That, is the worst explaination I have ever heard for the use of lock wire!

This is KB, you'll find much worse (although there wasn't anything wrong with that explanation).

If I lock wire my sump plug so that it can't move at all the lock wiring breaks because there's only a single exhaust bracket to attach the other end too. The exhaust moves relative to the engine so if it's tight the movement snaps the lock wire. So I have to leave a couple of mils of slack in it.

Lock wiring will stop a lot of things from vibrating loose, but there's no guarantee it'll work. If there's any sort of torque on the bolt it'll break the lock wire.

It really is mostly a visual indicator that you've done things up because you don't lock wire a loose bolt.

[Dave-]

That, is the worst explaination I have ever heard for the use of lock wire!

Fuck you're a grumpy cunt, "Explaination" isn't a word you neanderthal.

How about you offer an explanation of the application of lock wire yourself smarty pants?

[Drew]

Fuck you're a grumpy cunt, "Explaination" isn't a word you neanderthal.Hehehe, I tend to get a bit carried away, I'll grant you.


How about you offer an explanation of the application of lock wire yourself smarty pants?

Ummm, I don't have one. I thought I'd made that clear. I think it achieves nothing but letting incompetent people feel pro when spannering.

I've left a bolt or two loose in my time, (not that I would call myself overly competent), but I would have done it regardless of having to lock wire something.

[Mental Trousers]

I've left a bolt or two loose in my time, (not that I would call myself overly competent), but I would have done it regardless of having to lock wire something.

That's the thing with lock wiring - if it isn't wired you didn't tighten it and you can see the proof.

[tail_end_charlie]

My understanding is that lockwiring is has a two-fold use:

1. It serves as an 'indicator' so that everyone knows that a bolt or fastener that has been lock wired is torqued to the proper specs (you ONLY lockwire a fastener after you personally have torqued it). This is especially useful in a team situation where you have different people working on different parts at different times and won't know what the other person has done. It is used extensively in the aircraft industry mainly for that point.

2. Lock-wiring a fastener will keep that part from working its way out due to vibration. Lock-wiring should not be used to keep the fastener tight, only to keep it engaged. If you do the lock-wire up too tight on the fastener, it can very easily (and surprisingly quickly) fatigue and break, rendering the whole process useless.

[roogazza]

That's the thing with lock wiring - if it isn't wired you didn't tighten it and you can see the proof.
I know a bloke, who ran a TZ in the 70s. Was one of the most immaculate bike prep exponents I've ever seen. Lock wired everything.In fact he was working on F1 cars in England for a while. Lives in France now and posts on Motomatters as 'Kiwi'.

Anyway,I digress, only thing I remember using lockwire on was the sumpplug, it was in the rules in the olden days and you had to do it.
I guess the poor scutineers nowdays have to sit there with a socket set ?

[lostinflyz]

sitting here now reading this, i know i lockwired my brake bolts for tomorrow...... but i cant recall tightening them up all. hahhaha

[gav]

Re Lock wiring ....
If it's not suppose to keep things tight, why do people lock wire hand grips on?

[Dave-]

Re Lock wiring ....
If it's not suppose to keep things tight, why do people lock wire hand grips on?

Cause it works?

[Drew]

Re Lock wiring ....
If it's not suppose to keep things tight, why do people lock wire hand grips on?Are you kidding, or simple? That has nothing to do with lock wiring bolts.

Lock wire around the grips, stops them twisting and sliding off. But it's not a rigid material. The rubber takes up the vibration, so it doesn't fatigue so easily.

Over tighten it though, and it snaps quick smart.

[suzuki21]

My understanding is that lockwiring is has a two-fold use:

1. It serves as an 'indicator' so that everyone knows that a bolt or fastener that has been lock wired is torqued to the proper specs (you ONLY lockwire a fastener after you personally have torqued it). This is especially useful in a team situation where you have different people working on different parts at different times and won't know what the other person has done. It is used extensively in the aircraft industry mainly for that point.

2. Lock-wiring a fastener will keep that part from working its way out due to vibration. Lock-wiring should not be used to keep the fastener tight, only to keep it engaged. If you do the lock-wire up too tight on the fastener, it can very easily (and surprisingly quickly) fatigue and break, rendering the whole process useless.

Very good explanation.
1. - "It serves as an 'indicator'" Not only do some people forget to do their own stuff up due to various reasons - talking, distractions, hot chicks walking past etc.
2. - "This is especially useful in a team situation where you have different people working on different parts at different times". Think of the teams that have riders that haven't been in that team before, two people each working on a side each? A rider can glance and have peace of mind the brakes are all good.

Would everyone complaining about this rule accept someone they don't know to put their calipers on?

[SWERVE]

As many have pointed out lock wiring has different uses:
As a prevention of loosening such as twist grips and oil filters.
As a visual of tightening such as caliper bolts ( cos I wont lockwire a bolt I haven't checked is tight) would you?
And a way of securing "r" clips or pins from detaching themselves (and loosing them when removed)
But it still has to be done correctly. As stated wire wound too tight can break with the slightest tension or vibration. Wire tensioning in the wrong direction on filters is useless or possible cause of loosening.
How/where you drill the bolt depends how effective the wire becomes. We used to wire ALL the clutch/alternator bolts years ago (what a tedious task) with each linked together in a way that if a bolt tried to undo it was trying to do up the connected bolt, and therefore could not slacken.
A single hole in a bolt head and slack in the wire (which you need a tiny amount) will not necessarily stop it from rattling loose. A twin hole straight through is best IMHO.
Just my thoughts:msn-wink:

[quickbuck]

The problem with Lockwire is that 99% of racers are USELESS at doing it!
Some even confuse it with Safety wire!
They are two very different animals.
Safety wire is designed to snap, and usually used for switches that are only switched in an emergency.
This is so the Ground Crew can see if a switch was used in flight.
It is made of copper.

Lockwire done correctly will not break.
Yup read that again.....

It is always in an application where it tends to tighten one or more bolts or nuts.
It has a minimum thickness of 0.025" (usually 0.032", sometimes 0.040") in mechanical applications.
0.020" in electrical applications.

In 32 thou lockwire the twist ratio is 10 to 12 TPI, and it must never be unwound if you put in too many twists.
It must also be tight, thus never allowing the fasteners to back off.

It is not the primary tightening devise. The Torque of the fastener is!

In 23 years I have never seen correctly applied lockwire break.
I have seen broken lockwire but in all cases you could see it was incorrectly installed.
I have even undone Stiff-nuts with the heads of the bolts lockwired together and the lockwire hasn't broken.
The torque put through the heads wasn't light either!

MT, have a look under your engine, there may well be a block of casting that you can drill into as an anchor point.

If you want lessons on how to lockwire correctly, track me down and I will show you.

[steveyb]

Hey Aaron.
Next meeting I would be keen to demonstrate to you/have you demonstrate to me.
I think I am pretty good at it, but would love to be improved.

CU there.

Steve

[Kiwi Graham]

285839


Your welcome :)

[quickbuck]

Hey Aaron.
Next meeting I would be keen to demonstrate to you/have you demonstrate to me.
I think I am pretty good at it, but would love to be improved.

CU there.

Steve
Sweet as.
I could do a 15 Minute workshop on it..... for those keen.

[quickbuck]

285839


Your welcome :)

That is a good guide.....
Might be right with 7 to 10 tpi for 32 thou too.... I just know what looks right, and what is over-stressed....

Like all guides though nothing beats a practical demonstration and practice really.
Like you can't learn how to weld properly out of a book.....

[codgyoleracer]

285839


Your welcome :)

Cheers Graham

[wharfy]

Over tighten it though, and it snaps quick smart.

I've started to use small cable tie for this as the difference between tight enough and "snap" is to fine for an insensitive swine like me...