Illegal downloading

[superjackal]

This is just my 2 cents….

The biggest benefactor from illegal downloading are ISPs. They essentially provide access to content they did not create but which they know has an insatiable demand. The more traffic – the better they do. ISPs create no content but make all the money.

I fail to see why major studios have not set up their own internet services.

In an ideal world, I would pay my ISP to bring me whatever I wanted (which they do already), and the ISPs would then pay a global fund which allocated revenues based on downloads. Wouldn’t this make sense?

Please discuss….

[\m/]

I thought hard drive manufacturers were the biggest benefactors, people wouldn't have 10+ terabytes worth of hard drives if it wasn't for illegal downloads.

[Gremlin]

Bear in mind from the ISP side that torrents are nasty from the data side. They saturate available bandwidth, hence why often they are throttled. If the downloading wasn't present, they wouldn't need to have such large bandwidth available (otherwise people would complain about poor service etc). The cost of that bandwidth would make your monthly spend with the ISP paltry...

But yes, they make money from data, but strictly speaking, they make money from selling you data, that you don't use.

The major studios would only sub-contract to local providers to deliver, as trust me, that side isn't as simple as you might think it is, then they would run peering to the studios etc.

[iYRe]

what Gremlin said.

I worked in Callplus (Slingshot) network ops. Our graphing showed that something like 5% of the users were using 90% of the bandwidth available. Given free reign, torrenting and other p2p downloads just take over everything and leave nothing for anyone else.

on top of that, the demand increases exponentially, and international data still isnt all that cheap. When you're talking of gigabytes to terabytes PER SECOND of throughput, the dollar signs start flashing. And you're still not going to want to pay more than 80$.. It does get cheaper for the ISP, the more they buy, but not that much cheaper that its worthwhile. that is, you pay the same, use more, and cost them more.

My wife used to work at Griffins. They were trying to up the price of biscuits because it was costing more to make. The supermarket chains (the 2 main ones) said no, we'll only pay xx$. Griffins say, "we cant afford to sell them to you at that price". The supermarkets say "well tough patootie. That's all we're paying". So, griffins put less biscuits, smaller biscuits, and cheaper materials, in order to maintain a profit.

Get the idea?

[Gremlin]

On the other hand, you could let your neighbour have free reign on their internet, and you can get nothing, but still pay. Sounds fair?

As a rough idea, 1Mbps International will cost about $100 monthly (depends on supplier, grade, quantity you're buying - but this is a rough easy example). That means you could consistently download at 125KB/sec every second for the month (presuming a server will give you data at that speed). This doesn't include stuff like lines, exchanges etc, as it's served inside a datacentre.

Now check how fast you can download some files and check the bill the ISP gives you.:eek:

[bogan]

So its the cute little kitties on youtube that really cost us all the money? Those patient pirates are just plundering the soils that would otherwise be wasted.

[iYRe]

I pay 15 pounds a month for a server in europe, which does all my downloading for me.

All i ever do is ftp the files home (I use lftp on my linux xbmc machine to mirror it). My ratios are all up around 6 and I get what ever I want when ever, from private trackers.

www.feralhosting.com.

[superjackal]

But yes, they make money from data, but strictly speaking, they make money from selling you data, that you don't use.

The major studios would only sub-contract to local providers to deliver, as trust me, that side isn't as simple as you might think it is, then they would run peering to the studios etc.

Ha, sounds like gym-memberships!

I agree under the current model it's too complicated. Anyone heard any blue sky suggestions that might actually work???

[superjackal]

My wife used to work at Griffins. They were trying to up the price of biscuits because it was costing more to make. The supermarket chains (the 2 main ones) said no, we'll only pay xx$. Griffins say, "we cant afford to sell them to you at that price". The supermarkets say "well tough patootie. That's all we're paying". So, griffins put less biscuits, smaller biscuits, and cheaper materials, in order to maintain a profit.

Get the idea?

I work, let's say, pretty close to one of the supermarket chains. Your wife is half right and Griffins isn't the only company that gets squeezed. The biggest problem is the supermarket duopoly we have here. Foodstuffs is a controlling, stingy, nasty, greedy, aloof, impersonal organisation that controls IMHO an unacceptably large portion of NZ's food distribution. Progressive are run from Aussie, couldn't really give a stuff and are set up poorly to actively compete with FS.

I utterly hate Foodstuffs as an organisation, but then - hate to see so much profit disappear to Progressive Australia too. Rock and a hard place....

But this is about ISPs.

[Gremlin]

So its the cute little kitties on youtube that really cost us all the money?
Getting more technical here, but actually this is relatively cheap to deliver. There will be local caches of Youtube videos, which means the ISP will likely deliver the video you want from national bandwidth from a local server, rather than fetching it internationally. As mentioned, international bandwidth is much more expensive than national bandwidth.

If you're interested enough, and have the capabilities, you can actually see sometimes that a big download starts internationally, then gets handed off to a local server to continue delivering...

[awa355]

I have found a website called tubeplus.me It has dozens of movies and tv shows to either watch from their source or download to a pc. If I watched a movie or tv show from the website and dont save it, is that illegal downloading?

[Scuba_Steve]

I have found a website called tubeplus.me It has dozens of movies and tv shows to either watch from their source or download to a pc. If I watched a movie or tv show from the website and dont save it, is that illegal downloading?

Simple answer, yes

[superjackal]

Simple answer, yes

Bah! What's legality but a set of arbitrary rules made up by people you've never met!?

Do as thou whilst.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I work, let's say, pretty close to one of the supermarket chains. Your wife is half right and Griffins isn't the only company that gets squeezed. The biggest problem is the supermarket duopoly we have here. Foodstuffs is a controlling, stingy, nasty, greedy, aloof, impersonal organisation that controls IMHO an unacceptably large portion of NZ's food distribution. Progressive are run from Aussie, couldn't really give a stuff and are set up poorly to actively compete with FS.

I utterly hate Foodstuffs as an organisation, but then - hate to see so much profit disappear to Progressive Australia too. Rock and a hard place....

But this is about ISPs.

Last time I was in STraya I read an article about their supermarket duopoly. In some areas of the east coast Aldi had come in and was consistently 25% cheaper than the other two.

In NZ we put up with shitty expensive supermarkets (duopoly) and very expensive building products (wait: a duopoly, shirley not) and very expensive other services (interwebs)

Why live here again?

[iYRe]

very expensive other services (interwebs)

We are far away from anywhere but Australia. Cables need be run across the ocean floors, and maintained - its expensive.

[superjackal]

We are far away from anywhere but Australia. Cables need be run across the ocean floors, and maintained - its expensive.

M'yeeeaaaah, that's that they tell us - but then - they would, wouldn't they?

I still think we're ripped off, banks, building, telecomms, vehicles, services, food (FSS we produce enough!), taxes....

Watched something the other day on the 1980s. They claimed that in 1980 an average CEOs salary was 38 times an average workers. Today it's more like 400 times the average worker. THAT'S why sh*t's got expensive. Everyone has to send their kid to private school, buy the latest BMW, upgrade their kitchen...

The banks class action going on right now it all about, "Hey, c'mon - enough's enough - play fair".

[iYRe]

M'yeeeaaaah, that's that they tell us - but then - they would, wouldn't they?

umm.. because there is a huge cable.. under the sea.. which cost lots of money to lay, and lots of money to maintain?

"They" dont need to tell you..

[Scuba_Steve]

Last time I was in STraya I read an article about their supermarket duopoly. In some areas of the east coast Aldi had come in and was consistently 25% cheaper than the other two.

In NZ we put up with shitty expensive supermarkets (duopoly)

Last I saw our markets of super were cheap than OZ, infact someone showed they could fly to NZ super shop & fly back cheaper than going to the local supermarket.

[Gremlin]

"They" dont need to tell you..
Perhaps they do. ;)

But hey, lets let each household pay for their own international bandwidth. Only around $100 per 1mbit.

[iYRe]

Perhaps they do. ;)

But hey, lets let each household pay for their own international bandwidth. Only around $100 per 1mbit.


haha true :P

[HenryDorsetCase]

umm.. because there is a huge cable.. under the sea.. which cost lots of money to lay, and lots of money to maintain?

"They" dont need to tell you..

bollocks to that. interwebs come from silver balloons floating about. I saw it on the news.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Last I saw our markets of super were cheap than OZ, infact someone showed they could fly to NZ super shop & fly back cheaper than going to the local supermarket.

try and get any veges into Straya and the cops with the H & K's will shoot you is all.

[iYRe]

bollocks to that. interwebs come from silver balloons floating about. I saw it on the news.


awesome, because piloting a balloon seems like a far more exciting job than what I currently do (making internets works - because it's a crap job).

[superjackal]

Perhaps they do. ;)

But hey, lets let each household pay for their own international bandwidth. Only around $100 per 1mbit.

Can you explain that bit more?

[iYRe]

Can you explain that bit more?

Your adsl, say, can download, if you have adsl2+, at 24mb/s. each mb/s costs the ISP about 100$, so your "speed" is worth $2400/s.

It doesnt work like that, effectively. An ISP I used to work for has 45000 or so ADSL customers and an international throughput of about 3Gb/s. Bandwidth is pooled, and so forth, which brings the cost down.

Compare this to the USA where virtually all data is "local" (within the USA - caveat, its not quite like this anymore, but it was a few years ago). Even in NZ local data through peering exchanges is virtually free. This is why people partner with sky (through peering making all data local), and have google and akamai caches in their networks, to prevent data going "international". And this is why torrenters are a pain in the arse. 80% of all data is used by them (us :P), and very little of it is local. Thus causing ISP's to either throttle them, or buy more bandwidth so that "interteubz is fast" for everyone..