View Full Version : Help going down hills
rocketman1
30th April 2013, 19:38
I dont have trouble on my trail bike , going up steep hills, or through rocky streams, dowhills in general and consider myself an average to good trail bike rider
BUt I do have trouble going down real steep hills, like wet damp clay, these downhills are so steep you could not walk down, you would probably need to slide down on your backsides.
My bike is a 250 4stroke, it never seems to stall going down hills but I have lost the front traction several times, with dire consequences, with bike and me sliding most of the way down the hill together. My tires are slightly used running about 10psi
I would say that half the other riders were losing it on this descent, but others made it look easy.
If you are reading this and you can ride very steep slippery slopes, can you share your secrets.
Ocean1
30th April 2013, 20:01
Biggest improvement I ever made in that area was learning to get my arse back further. That, and practicing riding with the front brake as close to lock-up as possible whenever there was nothing else immediately threatening...
gwynfryn
30th April 2013, 20:35
As soon as you can release the brakes and coast the better.
Coldrider
30th April 2013, 20:42
As soon as you can release the brakes and coast the better.brakes, should be the front one only, and engine braking will destabilise the rear and send the rear out sideways. When it goes pearshaped release the front, let the bike settle and back on the front brake. Arms straight, ass over the back and never put a foot down.
gwynfryn
30th April 2013, 20:52
The idea is to use the most of both brakes but not to the point of locking up. If its possible to get away without touching the brakes even better.
scott411
30th April 2013, 21:01
brakes, should be the front one only, and engine braking will destabilise the rear and send the rear out sideways. When it goes pearshaped release the front, let the bike settle and back on the front brake. Arms straight, ass over the back and never put a foot down.
i disagree with not using the rear brake, or engine braking,
i use the rear brake as much as i can, and the engine braking as well,
the front brake however is your greatest control of speed,
standing up is also a massive help, once you sit down you have lost a heap of control,
nzspokes
30th April 2013, 21:13
i disagree with not using the rear brake, or engine braking,
i use the rear brake as much as i can, and the engine braking as well,
the front brake however is your greatest control of speed,
standing up is also a massive help, once you sit down you have lost a heap of control,
My problem is trying to use engine braking and rear brake at the same time. She stalls. 2 stroke thing I guess.
Coldrider
30th April 2013, 21:14
i disagree with not using the rear brake, or engine braking,
i use the rear brake as much as i can, and the engine braking as well,
the front brake however is your greatest control of speed,
standing up is also a massive help, once you sit down you have lost a heap of control,That was my experience of riding enduro bikes, with the object to get round a loop in the fastest possible time. That is how I rode, and it worked for me. The only time this went wrong was when catching up to a bunny on a one rut downhill.
gwynfryn
30th April 2013, 21:21
My problem is trying to use engine braking and rear brake at the same time. She stalls. 2 stroke thing I guess.
Pull the clutch in on the nasty stuff or you will stall all right.
scott411
30th April 2013, 21:33
My problem is trying to use engine braking and rear brake at the same time. She stalls. 2 stroke thing I guess.
definatly keep a finger on the clutch, two strokes are a touch harder on this sort of thing,
scott411
30th April 2013, 21:34
That was my experience of riding enduro bikes, with the object to get round a loop in the fastest possible time. That is how I rode, and it worked for me. The only time this went wrong was when catching up to a bunny on a one rut downhill.
i just feel i have more control using both brakes, and being able to slide the back around is needed as well,
Ocean1
30th April 2013, 21:41
Pull the clutch in on the nasty stuff or you will stall all right.
The OP, however has a 4T, and I'd suggest that he leaves the clutch alone. In fact if it's got a decompressor it's a useful way to keep the rear sorta self-modulating without undue risk of stalling, and keeping the rear turning, even at speeds considerably slower than bikespeed tends to keep it tracking.
Coldrider
30th April 2013, 22:16
Best way to learn is to pick up a pre 83 enduro bike with drum brakes XR,(even XLS were used) PE or IT KLX. Ride up and down a riverbed for 30 minutes, drown it in a muddy bog hole for another 20 mins, ride up a steep hill and then descend a steep slippery downhill and apply any brake that might still work, throw in the odd log across the rut to jump over. Then get a modern enduro bike and repeat, there is no comparison.
oldguy
30th April 2013, 23:57
i just feel i have more control using both brakes, and being able to slide the back around is needed as well,
+1 real steep and slippery it works for me, also head up and looking ahead
browny
1st May 2013, 04:28
i use both brakes on steep downhills and as someone suggested my decomp, works like jake brakes.( you'll hear them on the big trucks when they slowing or on downhills, rumbling engine braking). most of the problem tends to be a mental thing tho, its really no different to braking hard from high speed. except that you are usually standing. just a brake balancing act. that works for me. i couldnt get away with just using front only, would end up on the ground.
takitimu
1st May 2013, 06:22
i disagree with not using the rear brake, or engine braking,
i use the rear brake as much as i can, and the engine braking as well,
the front brake however is your greatest control of speed,
standing up is also a massive help, once you sit down you have lost a heap of control,
I'm the opposite to the OP, way prefer downhills.
For the front I try & brake as much as I can, using any bit of flat/hollow to slow faster. But never lock up & being real careful of roots/corners.
I almost use my rear brake as an anchor, more for direction/stability than braking, finger on the clutch the whole way.
Stand up, grip with your knees/ankles, look ahead & have your butt back ( though I don't go to far with this ).
Doing a session with Birch at the farm next weekend, so I'll likely be changing things around :).
F5 Dave
1st May 2013, 09:29
Man-down a little, admit the fear & jump off that puppy & bulldog walk it down.
. . . .well, everyone else was staunching it up with the stand up, or let-the-brakes-off bravado. this thread needed some balance.
BoristheBiter
1st May 2013, 09:40
stand up, arse back, back brake (don't lock), front brake (don't lock), clutch in.
Head up, look where you're going.
if you lock up or start sliding due to build up under tyres, release brakes to clear build up then carry on as before..
Try it on not so steep hills so you can tell when your brakes will lock so you have a better understanding of your brakes.
Jay GTI
1st May 2013, 21:05
I'm not the best downhill admittedly, but I stand up (arse back), mostly control speed with the front brake, keep the clutch out to use the engine braking and only hit the rear brake (partially disengage clutch at that point) if things are getting a little too steep.
Shadykiwi
2nd May 2013, 21:20
love downhills but jumping scares me shitless. Best advice I ever got was arse as far back as possible . Also grip your seat with your kness as hard as you can. It does wonders all over the track that one.
nzspokes
2nd May 2013, 21:34
love downhills but jumping scares me shitless. Best advice I ever got was arse as far back as possible . Also grip your seat with your kness as hard as you can. It does wonders all over the track that one.
I tend not to grip with my knees downhill, does it help that much?
ktm84mxc
3rd May 2013, 08:21
Sometimes on the really steep hills I'll just bull dog the bike down dead engine in gear and walk it down it sure beats crashing and being pinned under it.
L Rider
3rd May 2013, 11:02
i disagree with not using the rear brake, or engine braking,
i use the rear brake as much as i can, and the engine braking as well,
the front brake however is your greatest control of speed,
standing up is also a massive help, once you sit down you have lost a heap of control,
Totally agree with you here Scott. I have the theory all there I'm just so scared of downhills it goes pearshaped before I've started - gave John a few laughs at Berm Buster on the wknd - he was following me
Shadykiwi
3rd May 2013, 15:46
I tend not to grip with my knees downhill, does it help that much?It did for me. By griping you tend to hold your weight further back rather than placing it through your arms, so less weight up front and also gives your arms and hands a chance to rest. If all going well I can go down hills at a good rate without having to have the death grip going on. Also if the back end starts jumping around trhough braking holes griping the seat sucks it up really well.
scott411
3rd May 2013, 22:08
I tend not to grip with my knees downhill, does it help that much?
i always grip with my knees, helps keep your weight back,
buffstar
6th May 2013, 11:09
My problem is trying to use engine braking and rear brake at the same time. She stalls. 2 stroke thing I guess.
pull the clutch in :msn-wink:
Reckless
6th May 2013, 21:40
i disagree with not using the rear brake, or engine braking,
i use the rear brake as much as i can, and the engine braking as well,
the front brake however is your greatest control of speed,
standing up is also a massive help, once you sit down you have lost a heap of control,
Yep agree scott has some of the greatest experience here worth listening to!! Four stroke based Id guess :)
I'm the opposite to the OP, way prefer downhills.
For the front I try & brake as much as I can, using any bit of flat/hollow to slow faster. But never lock up & being real careful of roots/corners.
I almost use my rear brake as an anchor, more for direction/stability than braking, finger on the clutch the whole way.
Stand up, grip with your knees/ankles, look ahead & have your butt back ( though I don't go to far with this ).
Doing a session with Birch at the farm next weekend, so I'll likely be changing things around :).
Right or wrong can only tell what I do!
The first thing I was told by a really good rider it a hill is only a straight on an angle :)
Takiimu has the way I do it nailed. Grip with the knees and use the back brake like a sea anchor to keep the bike straight.
Pretty much pull in the clutch and lock up the back and control the speed as best I can with the front brake.
A 2 stroke technique I'd guess but I don't mind downhills.
As soon as you can release everything and roll on down.
takitimu
6th May 2013, 22:50
A 2 stroke technique I'd guess but I don't mind downhills.
As soon as you can release everything and roll on down.
:), I'm 4/, if my rear is locked I'll be going slower than idle first, so engine braking is not alot of use.
The hard ones, I think anyway are the hills where it's slippery enough that any serious braking speeds you up, so you just feather to keep it straight and attempt to reduce the acceleration.
_Shrek_
6th May 2013, 23:06
:), I'm 4/, if my rear is locked I'll be going slower than idle first, so engine braking is not alot of use.
The hard ones, I think anyway are the hills where it's slippery enough that any serious braking speeds you up, so you just feather to keep it straight and attempt to reduce the acceleration.
+1 :niceone:
& my 1st gear is like :eek: so I have to use front brake/clutch as I've fitted swivel pegs & when I lean back it takes my foot away from the brake, but I do like to use the rear as well so will have to learn how with new pegs :facepalm:
Night Falcon
7th May 2013, 21:28
We had a particularly nasty hill affectionately called the "widow maker" where I grew up in Blenhiem - really steep down hill. My technique was always to stand on the back brake, featherd clutch and as much front brake as I can. Sit way back one foot on the ground inching down as slow as I could being really careful not to get it sliding too much.
Freaking out while doing it always made sure there was enough adrenalin to mask the pain when I got it wrong. I did ride with a bloke who rode his 530 to the bottom but I could never muster the skill or courage to even attempt that.....but then nutters always make the best riders<_<
DEATH_INC.
7th May 2013, 23:30
Well. The single WORST bit of advice has been mentioned many time through this thread. DO NOT slide your ass back on the seat. This causes the seat to hit you in the ass every time you go over a bump (especially if yer a shortass), which then pitches you forwards and upsets your balance. Stand up and center yourself on the bike like any other situation head forwards and up, arms up legs bent. And just RIDE down the damn thing like any other piece of real estate. Only time there will ever be an issue is if you have to stop for some reason.
It's mostly in your head, there isn't much a bike won't roll down without flipping. Ever seen a good balance point stoppie (endo)? That's how steep the bike can go safely.
I used to practice on short steep bits (too steep to stand on) so I felt comfortable with it. It didn't take long before I could fly down big steep hills without a worry.
Well. The single WORST bit of advice has been mentioned many time through this thread. DO NOT slide your ass back on the seat. This causes the seat to hit you in the ass every time you go over a bump (especially if yer a shortass), which then pitches you forwards and upsets your balance. Stand up and center yourself on the bike like any other situation head forwards and up, arms up legs bent. And just RIDE down the damn thing like any other piece of real estate. Only time there will ever be an issue is if you have to stop for some reason.
It's mostly in your head, there isn't much a bike won't roll down without flipping. Ever seen a good balance point stoppie (endo)? That's how steep the bike can go safely.
I used to practice on short steep bits (too steep to stand on) so I felt comfortable with it. It didn't take long before I could fly down big steep hills without a worry.
That would be sensible, if you were sitting down.
Which you shouldn't be doing on steep descents.
Watch this video and note the body position of these pros. ~7min. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxf6tBRu8zM
None of them are sitting. All of them are standing and have their weight way back, with nearly straight arms.
takitimu
8th May 2013, 06:50
That would be sensible, if you were sitting down.
Which you shouldn't be doing on steep descents.
Watch this video and note the body position of these pros. ~7min. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxf6tBRu8zM
None of them are sitting. All of them are standing and have their weight way back, with nearly straight arms.
Yeah if all goes well you don't need to have your weight back, but things don't always go well and if your front digs in or hits a angled root, then sitting back helps ( for different reasons ).
Just to clarify though, I don't think anyone has suggested sitting down, it's true even standing you do have to be aware of the back kicking up, but that's true generally.
I'm not convinced a death grip is a good thing on the handlebars either, try and stay loose, I suspect it helps your suspension work better by avoiding your body turning into a leveraged weight attached to the bars.
Way I figure pros tend to do things for a reason.
Ocean1
8th May 2013, 08:13
Well. The single WORST bit of advice has been mentioned many time through this thread. DO NOT slide your ass back on the seat. This causes the seat to hit you in the ass every time you go over a bump (especially if yer a shortass), which then pitches you forwards and upsets your balance. Stand up and center yourself on the bike like any other situation head forwards and up, arms up legs bent. And just RIDE down the damn thing like any other piece of real estate. Only time there will ever be an issue is if you have to stop for some reason.
Yeah. But if you're standing then getting your body weight centred on the bike going downhill means straightening your arms and getting your arse back. Don't know any other way you could do that and still have your hands on the bars and your feet on the pegs. And in that position your bike can make best use of whatever traction there is, meaning your'e better placed to stop if you need to.
There's quite a range of styles that work for most situations. One of the largest variations in technique is across the speed range, with slow work tending to favour keeping your weight laterally over your tyre contact patches and fwd/aft depending on which tyre needs the traction. Going down weight on the front is a good idea, improved grip on the front, but a level ground body position, (with regard to the bike) is too much, besides which I doubt your arms could hold you. Mine couldn't anyway.
Jay GTI
8th May 2013, 20:41
Well. The single WORST bit of advice has been mentioned many time through this thread. DO NOT slide your ass back on the seat. This causes the seat to hit you in the ass every time you go over a bump (especially if yer a shortass), which then pitches you forwards and upsets your balance. Stand up and center yourself on the bike like any other situation head forwards and up, arms up legs bent. And just RIDE down the damn thing like any other piece of real estate. Only time there will ever be an issue is if you have to stop for some reason.
It's mostly in your head, there isn't much a bike won't roll down without flipping. Ever seen a good balance point stoppie (endo)? That's how steep the bike can go safely.
I used to practice on short steep bits (too steep to stand on) so I felt comfortable with it. It didn't take long before I could fly down big steep hills without a worry.
...and the clear winner for the worst advice yet...
Here's some advice from someone who actually does know what they're talking about, says you need to move your weight back towards the bike, which is done by... hmmm, let me think...
http://www.dirtrider.com/features/protips/riding/141_0403_steep_straight_downhills/
flyingcr250
9th May 2013, 07:09
ive found the easiest way to get down steep hills is sliding down on my face with the bike doing cartwheels behind me.:headbang:
BoristheBiter
9th May 2013, 08:01
ive found the easiest way to get down steep hills is sliding down on my face with the bike doing cartwheels behind me.:headbang:
Amen brother, works every time for me.
Ocean1
9th May 2013, 08:34
ive found the easiest way to get down steep hills is sliding down on my face with the bike doing cartwheels behind me.:headbang:
Iv'e found that works quite well for going up steep hills too.
Night Falcon
9th May 2013, 13:00
Iv'e found that works quite well for going up steep hills too.
up or down makes no difference to my skill set.....hang on, hope know one sees ya fall off, if they do then hope they don't have a camera <_<
rocketman1
13th May 2013, 20:07
ive found the easiest way to get down steep hills is sliding down on my face with the bike doing cartwheels behind me.:headbang:
Yeah know how this feels, I seem to do this quite easily.
Only thing sometimes it hurts more than staying on the bike.
oldskool
13th May 2013, 20:33
ive found the easiest way to get down steep hills is sliding down on my face with the bike doing cartwheels behind me.:headbang:
I think I may have a video of you explaining that to me
takitimu
13th May 2013, 22:10
One thing that doesn't work is headbutting a tree to slow down, I'd recommend avoiding that.
nzspokes
13th May 2013, 22:22
I came to the conclusion I go up hills far worse than I go down. Think I need to pin it to win it.
jt119
13th May 2013, 23:20
QUOTE=flyingcr250;1130543288]ive found the easiest way to get down steep hills is sliding down on my face with the bike doing cartwheels behind me.:headbang <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VqLpD4d9Umk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
flyingcr250
14th May 2013, 07:16
QUOTE=flyingcr250;1130543288]ive found the easiest way to get down steep hills is sliding down on my face with the bike doing cartwheels behind me.:headbang <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VqLpD4d9Umk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
just wait till i get my camera
_Shrek_
14th May 2013, 07:51
up or down makes no difference to my skill set.....hang on, hope know one sees ya fall off, if they do then hope they don't have a camera <_<
that's the trouble when riding with others, some one will have a camera out before ya blink :facepalm:
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