How can Harley Davidson appeal to younger riders? + Poll.

[Brett]

Further to a post I placed under the General section, I would love some feedback from the Hogs/cruiser riders on here...Very simply...what can Harley Davidson do, in your opinion, to appeal to younger riders (say...sub 30)? Also, if you're a HD rider...how old are you?

[AllanB]

Some of the Sportster models are very horny looking rides. They need to be cheaper if you want to get a younger person into them.

If you are 20 or so why would you drop $16k or so on a single seat low powered motorcycle when you can buy a high performance import car that holds 8 (I'm allowing for two in the boot as long as it is not full of fucking amps and speakers)?

[madandy]

Put a v- rod engine in something like a street tripple.

[Brett]

Some of the Sportster models are very horny looking rides. They need to be cheaper if you want to get a younger person into them.

If you are 20 or so why would you drop $16k or so on a single seat low powered motorcycle when you can buy a high performance import car that holds 8 (I'm allowing for two in the boot as long as it is not full of fucking amps and speakers)?

And how do you convince them to get a bike license and ride bikes instead of/as well as drive a car? It seems us bike riders are a shrinking minority! As a 29 year old, I have been considering a cruiser type bike now for some time (as well as a sportsbike) but in all honesty, a HD bike has not crossed my mind once! The bikes I have been looking at are cafe racer type bikes (Triumph, Norton, Motoguzi, some of the Jappers...) something a bit funky, cool and with more 'character' as I perceive it.

[Brett]

Put a v- rod engine in something like a street tripple.

I LOVE this idea...honestly I do!

Aside from being a cool idea for a bike...why do you think that this is a good idea - why would it appeal to younger riders? Are you saying the bikes are the cause of the age barrier issue or is it something fundamentally to do with their brand?

[AllanB]

There is no incentive for them to ride a motorcycle.

I wanted one since I was about 7 apparently. Something fundamentally appealed to me from a very young age - the more people told me 'no' the more I wanted one and I have had one in my shed since I was 16 (48 now).

I do know a young chap who purchased a 250 Yammy cruiser a while back - the cool factor appealed to him.


HD may now be in the position where a young guy considers them to be an old mans bike. Shit I joke with my friends each birthday that we are getting closer each year to owning a Harley (ie once you hit 50!).

[madandy]

The V-Rod engine is a modern engine design with, I beleive 125 hp in the Night Train. It revs decently and sounds proper without the obnoxious old school fart most harleys make. It would have made more sense for Buell to use than pushrod clunkers that redlined at 5500rpm.

I rode a friends 883 Sporty that was highly modified with a very worked engine at 1200cc and I honestly couldn't find a good word to say about it and my stock '95 900SS was quicker.

In a Street Tripple like frame - so a Buell with better ergonomics and brakes - a 125hp twin that liked a few revs would be sublime :cool:

[Big Dave]

V-rod engine is too bulky for a nekkid.
That Roher sportsbike conversion is 260kg or thereabouts from memory.

H-D put it in a great handling chassis in 2005 and it didn't sell.

Al - 883 Sportser is in the same price bracket as some of the metric cruisers. $12k for a nice sporty. The Touring rigs are top dollar though.


The younger guys I've met with H-D's often have custom builds. Most of the builders I've met with Heavy Duty are 30-somethings too.

For the mothership the 'extra-curricular' marketing/branding challenge is unique.

When they go 'young and hip' at their events all the old coots rark up. 'What's this shite?'

When they go 'tried and trusted' all the younguns go 'wtf Jimmy Barnes again'?

But it's not just H-D that has an ageing market.

[AllanB]

At least Honda is trying to appeal to a wider market.......... (though I'd be the first to throw in a ghey joke!).

[Big Dave]

I quite liked the Buell perimeter brakes on my XB12X - and the 20 other Buells I rode.
Not as good as some nice Brembos, (you want superb brakes - try a new night rod) but they were comparable with any of the Nissens I've tested.

[Brett]

HD may now be in the position where a young guy considers them to be an old mans bike. Shit I joke with my friends each birthday that we are getting closer each year to owning a Harley (ie once you hit 50!).

I think that they have done such a great job of building their brand...that it has rather solidified and are now a victim of their own success in this regard...that much momentum and connection to the market is hard to turn around.

[Brett]

V-rod engine is too bulky for a nekkid.
That Roher sportsbike conversion is 260kg or thereabouts from memory.

H-D put it in a great handling chassis in 2005 and it didn't sell.

Al - 883 Sportser is in the same price bracket as some of the metric cruisers. $12k for a nice sporty. The Touring rigs are top dollar though.


The younger guys I've met with H-D's often have custom builds. Most of the builders I've met with Heavy Duty are 30-somethings too.

For the mothership the 'extra-curricular' marketing/branding challenge is unique.

When they go 'young and hip' at their events all the old coots rark up. 'What's this shite?'

When they go 'tried and trusted' all the younguns go 'wtf Jimmy Barnes again'?

But it's not just H-D that has an ageing market.

I understand Motoguzi & Ducati in particular are looking at similar issues with regards to demographics.

[madandy]

V-rod engine is too bulky for a nekkid.
That Roher sportsbike conversion is 260kg or thereabouts from memory.

H-D put it in a great handling chassis in 2005 and it didn't sell.

Al - 883 Sportser is in the same price bracket as some of the metric cruisers. $12k for a nice sporty. The Touring rigs are top dollar though.


The younger guys I've met with H-D's often have custom builds. Most of the builders I've met with Heavy Duty are 30-somethings too.

For the mothership the 'extra-curricular' marketing/branding challenge is unique.

When they go 'young and hip' at their events all the old coots rark up. 'What's this shite?'

When they go 'tried and trusted' all the younguns go 'wtf Jimmy Barnes again'?

But it's not just H-D that has an ageing market.

They could shave some weight and bulk from The original design and look at the price too...wait that would mean Asian production wouldn't it?
Its not enough for it to handle well, it has to look like it handles well and have lean angle and some go fast appeal.
It would have to be imagined and designed by someone from the target age group who may not give a flying fuck about made in USA.

[wysper]

Further to a post I placed under the General section, I would love some feedback from the Hogs/cruiser riders on here...Very simply...what can Harley Davidson do, in your opinion, to appeal to younger riders (say...sub 30)?

Do they actually want to appeal to that market?

How many young guys and girls are looking for a big v-twin cruiser as their first, second or third bike?

They are generally looking at a first bike for something small and cheap to learn on - not in HDs design brief.
Second bike, a bigger, faster version of the first bike - still not in HDs design brief.
Third bike, most are probably still in the second hand market, sub $10k, still looking for fast and powerful - closer to HD but still not really what they do and are known for.

If HD wants a slice of the young new riders market, they are basically going to have to design either a Japper style road bike or something like the Triumph scrambler, but even that wouldn't most likely appeal to younger newer riders.
I believe if HD tried to enter the entry level road bike market, they would fail.

I don't think there is a simple answer to that question. Or if I was forced to, I would say they can't. Not without a dramatically new and different model range. Even then they would be up against a certain level of Harley Hate.

[wysper]

Although..... there could be a massive shake up to the whole industry when the electric motorbikes are sorted and start becoming available.

I would love to try out the torque on one of those. Electric motors are OOOOOZING with it.

May make some of this moot.

[Brett]

Do they actually want to appeal to that market?

How many young guys and girls are looking for a big v-twin cruiser as their first, second or third bike?

They are generally looking at a first bike for something small and cheap to learn on - not in HDs design brief.
Second bike, a bigger, faster version of the first bike - still not in HDs design brief.
Third bike, most are probably still in the second hand market, sub $10k, still looking for fast and powerful - closer to HD but still not really what they do and are known for.

If HD wants a slice of the young new riders market, they are basically going to have to design either a Japper style road bike or something like the Triumph scrambler, but even that wouldn't most likely appeal to younger newer riders.
I believe if HD tried to enter the entry level road bike market, they would fail.

I don't think there is a simple answer to that question. Or if I was forced to, I would say they can't. Not without a dramatically new and different model range. Even then they would be up against a certain level of Harley Hate.

Yes...if they tried to enter the entry bike market they would get burnt...many others have tried and have suffered poor results. So, in essence your opinion is that as riders age, they will gravitate to the HD type bikes and that trying to target a younger market is a bit...pointless. The real issue, as discussed in my other thread, is with regards to a shrinking pool of riders I reckon.

Edit...FWIW...I agree. I think that HD are good at their market and should focus on capturing those older riders as they gravitate to tourer type motorcycles. I think that their brand is best aligned with this and I think that their core competencies lean this way too. Interesting to hear other peoples views though.

[Big Dave]

Harley did make good road sports bikes. A Buell XB is/was a great road bike for NZ.

Unfortunately, endlessly twisty roads are not that common where Harley's money belts are.

[Smifffy]

I was getting kind of turned on by the XR1200X, but then a) I don't think they make 'em anymore & b) I just realised I no longer qualify as a young rider :doh:

I think if a bunch of them turned up in some kick ass cult movies then they might get more popular, then again - kids today maybe not so much kick-ass - maybe if bieber & that sparkly vampire rode hogs all the kids would wanna too.

Till we end up with pansy biker gangs and bad asses in VW golfs....


*sigh* I REALLY don't qualify as a young biker lolz

[Ocean1]

Harley did make good road sports bikes. A Buell XB is/was a great road bike for NZ.

Unfortunately, endlessly twisty roads are not that common where Harley's money belts are.


I was getting kind of turned on by the XR1200X, but then a) I don't think they make 'em anymore & b) I just realised I no longer qualify as a young rider :doh:

Aye, both sacrificed by HD because they didn't perform in the states.

And if that had anything to do with a lack of corners there'd be bugger all proper sprotsbikes sold too.

[idb]

As has been said above...do they want to appeal to that market?
Older riders are where the money is and they won't want to be elbowing kids with their hats on backwards in bright leathers out of the way to get to the bar at the HOG rallies.

The best way would be to have a different brand like they tried with Buell.

[Big Dave]

And if that had anything to do with a lack of corners there'd be bugger all proper sprotsbikes sold too.

Yeah it does.

In the flatlands they buy an IL4 for max speed and stunting - or a cruiser.

A bike that is pretty much built aroud cornering is as suitable there as a Heritage in the Waipua Forest. Punters know that.

I wouldn't buy another Buell or any sports bike for living in Brisbane, I'd dig a Road King (I have one in the shed now) - or the mighty KLR.

[Winston001]

Yeah Brett, interesting question. I think it is much bigger than just Harley Davidson attracting new young buyers. The whole motorcycle thing is under a question mark and there is probably some deep research out there.

My (bogan) nephews lust after an early 351 Falcon or similar Holden. They make do with a very fast and powerful Japanese car. None of their friends lust after a Harley. They can't see the point.

Motorcycling is a very individual thing to do and appeals to people who are comfortable on their own. At least while travelling. We motorcyclists love to get together at the end of a run and at a rally. But on the bike - its just about being in the moment.

[bosslady]

I'm 26 and I'd never consider buying a Harley. In my eyes the perception is that Harleys are for people 50+. 40', maybe, if you're lucky. Also, seems everything targeted around my age is sports bikes bonanza. I couldn't say why or how but cruisers don't even remotely appeal to me!

[Brett]

I'm 26 and I'd never consider buying a Harley. In my eyes the perception is that Harleys are for people 50+. 40', maybe, if you're lucky. Also, seems everything targeted around my age is sports bikes bonanza. I couldn't say why or how but cruisers don't even remotely appeal to me!

Is the GN250 just an entry bike then? (I have always thought of them as cruisers in my mind)

[Ender EnZed]

For the record, I'm 21 and have had 6 other road bikes before my current Hayabusa. Naked, dual purpose, sports touring styles and all Japanese. The vast majority of the time I can pick the make and model of any Japanese bike that you're likely to spot on the road, the same for BMWs, Triumphs or Ducatis (brands that have a presence) and at least the make of most other Euro brands. Also Buells.

When it comes to Harleys there are V-Rods, XR1200s, maybe a Sproty and then the "real" Harleys. "Real" Harleys can come in differing levels of chrome or matt blackness and ever so occasionally come in the "Goldwing-esque" variety with a fairing and panniers but that's about it. I've read plenty of magazine articles about different models and the whole current range but none of it's really stuck. All the "real" Harleys look about the same as a Honda VT750 and I'm no more likely to buy one.


Is the GN250 just an entry bike then? (I have always thought of them as cruisers in my mind)

I've always thought of them as cheap and plentiful, and therefore a good starting point for newbies who don't know or can't do any better.


V-rod engine is too bulky for a nekkid.
That Roher sportsbike conversion is 260kg or thereabouts from memory.

H-D put it in a great handling chassis in 2005 and it didn't sell.


Presumably this was the V-Rod itself.

You've ridden a shit tonne of bikes; care to hazard a guess as to the differences in lap times of an average skilled, confident going fast rider on a XR1200, V-Rod, Bandit 1200, VTR1000 at, say, Manfield?

[Brett]

You've ridden a shit tonne of bikes; care to hazard a guess as to the differences in lap times of an average skilled, confident going fast rider on a XR1200, V-Rod, Bandit 1200, VTR1000 at, say, Manfield?

haha...I was just wondering something similar earlier.

[Big Dave]

You've ridden a shit tonne of bikes; care to hazard a guess as to the differences in lap times of an average skilled, confident going fast rider on a XR1200, V-Rod, Bandit 1200, VTR1000 at, say, Manfield?

It was the Street Rod.

Times I don't know. It would be more a matter of how long it would take the Japs to lap the Yanks.
Lap times don't necessarily translate to an enjoyment factor on the open road though.

Bandit is the most versatile.

[Ender EnZed]

It was the Street Rod.

Times I don't know. It would be more a matter of how long it would take the Japs to lap the Yanks.
Lap times don't necessarily translate to an enjoyment factor on the open road though.

Bandit is the most versatile.

That's a dodge.

Put the same guy on each bike and who will leave feeling like he has the biggest cock?

Edit: Assuming cock size perception is directly inversely proportional to lap time.

[Winston001]

...care to hazard a guess as to the differences in lap times of an average skilled, confident going fast rider on a XR1200, V-Rod, Bandit 1200, VTR1000 at, say, Manfield?

With respect, the vast majority of motorcyclists never go near a track. Maybe to watch a race meeting but not otherwise. People buy motorcycles for journeys on roads. Fast or medium or slow.

[Big Dave]

That's a dodge.

:-)

OK - more specific.

The race track doesn't interest me at all (other than for the photo opportunity). No idea about lap times.

What interests me is road riding, going to different places, touring and exploring on a bike. And keeping my licence so I can continue to do so.

If I had to choose one of those you mention for NZ - it would be the Bandit. Here in Brisbane it would be the V-rod.

Different tools for different jobs (and places).

[Ender EnZed]

:-)

OK - more specific.

The race track doesn't interest me at all (other than for the photo opportunity). No idea about lap times.

What interests me is road riding, going to different places, touring and exploring on a bike. And keeping my licence so I can continue to do so.

If I had to choose one of those you mention for NZ - it would be the Bandit. Here in Brisbane it would be the V-rod.

Different tools for different jobs (and places).


Which would be your steed for a race against your peers on a track in NZ for a bath with Emma Watson (or similar) and $1 million prize money? Preferably all four in order.

My uninformed opinion would be VTR, Bandit, XR, V-Rod but I've only ridden the VTR so it's pretty much meaningless.

[Big Dave]

Another thing Brett

It's Harley-Davidson.

My homie Bill Davidson takes it personally if you miss the dash.

[Ender EnZed]

I should probably add that XR1200s have been making me uncomfortable in the nether regions for longer than I care to admit and I may just have to ride one soon to see what it does.

[Big Dave]

Which would be your steed for a race against your peers on a track in NZ for a bath with Emma Watson (or similar) and $1 million prize money? Preferably all four in order.

My uninformed opinion would be VTR, Bandit, XR, V-Rod but I've only ridden the VTR so it's pretty much meaningless.


Yep agree - 1 and 2 - But 3 would be the V-rod - goes very much like the VTR when you spool it up. 125 ponies weighted toward the top end of the rev range. The Sporty would get through the corners quicker via better lean angle (and no fat arse rear tyre), but the V-rod woud better it on exits and top speed. The V-rod has some of the nicest Brembo brakes on the market too. (talking 2013 model here).


EDIT: XR1200 is a very nice bike. They make me feel good - and I'm sure my dick is longer.

[Brett]

Another thing Brett

It's Harley-Davidson.

My homie Bill Davidson takes it personally if you miss the dash.

Point taken. Won't be lazy with my hyphens anymore. - .

Bloody oldies...have to have everything just the way they like it eh?:bleh:

[Ender EnZed]

Yep agree - 1 and 2 - But 3 would be the V-rod - goes very much like the VTR when you spool it up. 125 ponies weighted toward the top end of the rev range. The Sporty would get through the corners quicker via better lean angle (and no fat arse rear tyre), but the V-rod woud better it on exits and top speed. The V-rod has some of the nicest Brembo brakes on the market too. (talking 2013 model here).


EDIT: XR1200 is a very nice bike. They make me feel good - and I'm sure my dick is longer.

So... the gist of it is that the cheap ass jap bikes are faster? Fuck.

No new information.

That just makes me want a Buell even more. It's a real shame that by the time I'm going to be looking to buy a new bike there're going to be fuck all American options.

[Big Dave]

Point taken. Won't be lazy with my hyphens anymore. - .

Bloody oldies...have to have everything just the way they like it eh?:bleh:

EH - Whats that - SPEAK UP!

Picky picky. I was actually just thinking of your paper being all proper like.

[Big Dave]

Conversely - any of those bikes will happily cruise at well beyond disqualification speed all day.

It's an old adage, but very true.

It's much more fun to ride a slow bike fast - than a fast bike slow.

[Ender EnZed]

EH - Whats that - SPEAK UP!

Picky picky. I was actually just thinking of your paper being all proper like.


Conversely - any of those bikes will happily cruise at well beyond disqualification speed all day.

It's an old adage, but very true.

It's much more fun to ride a slow bike fast - than a fast bike slow.

I don't doubt it.

The XR1200 is a tasty bike though. I think I've made my points clear re: older tech Harleys but that XR12 is a definite contender. The 'Bus has more go than I can use for more than a handful of seconds (I imagine this to be true for most riders) so the next obvious choice is a V-Twin of a tasty nature. My preference is Jap~esque reliability with some extra character for the extra money available on purchase. Sounds like Harley should be able to provide it, they just need the bike

[ducatilover]

In my eyes to get younger riders on them, you might want some LAMS bikes. But judging by the performance of an 883, a LAMS size Harley will have around 14hp.

But, if they kept making the XR1200, I'd get excited (only Harley I would consider owning, except it makes horrid noises), that was a pretty neat bike.

I don't think the young market in NZ is going to bother with Harleys and I really do not think Harley gives a fuck about the young market in NZ, they can't afford one of those $800 genuine p.u leather jackets (what a fucking joke)

[ducatilover]

It's much more fun to ride a slow bike fast - than a fast bike slow.

I think I have enjoyed myself more on my Kawasaki P.O.S than any Harley Davidson I have ridden. And it's a teeny tiny bit fastererer.
But, fun is subjective, so silly sayings mean nothing.

[Brett]

EH - Whats that - SPEAK UP!

Picky picky. I was actually just thinking of your paper being all proper like.

I's gots to practis my gramer skillz...

[Big Dave]

silly sayings mean nothing.

^ The voice of experience.

The best fun bikes I've ridden - a $40k BMW and a $65k Turbo Harley.

Can Am Spyder is up there too - as long as there is no traffic.

[Ender EnZed]

Conversely - any of those bikes will happily cruise at well beyond disqualification speed all day.

It's an old adage, but very true.

It's much more fun to ride a slow bike fast - than a fast bike slow.

Absolutely. That's true of a great many motorcycles though.

It's not going to win any new customers.


I think I have enjoyed myself more on my Kawasaki P.O.S than any Harley Davidson I have ridden. And it's a teeny tiny bit fastererer.
But, fun is subjective, so silly sayings mean nothing.

The voice of experience might be about to fall from great height and explode. Or not. I can't tell.

[Big Dave]

Or not. I can't tell.

He's the worst troller on here. As in worst at it.

[Ender EnZed]

He's the worst troller on here. As in worst at it.

I will squeeze you later. I think I might have to go ride an XR1200 first. They've been giving me uncomfortable sensations that just might
equate with riding a Harley. That'd be freaky.


Don't make me ride a real Harley though. I don't where they go or what they do.

[bosslady]

Is the GN250 just an entry bike then? (I have always thought of them as cruisers in my mind) To me, a cruiser is when you have your feet out the front of ya. I consider my bike a "tourer". Not saying it's a very good one though!

[Big Dave]

To me, a cruiser is when you have your feet out the front of ya. I consider my bike a "tourer". Not saying it's a very good one though!

In the industry a GN250 is rated as a commuter. IMO you could call it a 'standard' appropriately too.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The V-Rod engine is a modern engine design with, I beleive 125 hp in the Night Train. It revs decently and sounds proper without the obnoxious old school fart most harleys make. It would have made more sense for Buell to use than pushrod clunkers that redlined at 5500rpm.

I rode a friends 883 Sporty that was highly modified with a very worked engine at 1200cc and I honestly couldn't find a good word to say about it and my stock '95 900SS was quicker.

In a Street Tripple like frame - so a Buell with better ergonomics and brakes - a 125hp twin that liked a few revs would be sublime :cool:

LIke BD says...it's way too big and heavy mate. Also...HD are dropping the V-Rod family very shortly. The engine is also very *dirty*, and they struggle to get it through all of the emssion laws compared to the pushrod engine.

And I must say...your mates 1200cc sporty must be a dud if it wouldn't see off your 900SS. And decently tuned hot rodded 1200 would suck it's mirrors off on the way past you.

[scumdog]

Why I ride a Harley?

In no particular order and off the cuff:

a) cos I wanted one back in the 60's when I couldn't afford one.
b) they look like a bike should (in my eyes)
c) they are relatively easy to work on
d) can carry a decent amount of gear
e) are thrifty on gas
f) are torquey enough that frequent gear changing isn't needed
g) are reliable as any other brand - better than some.
h) need little maintenance
i) they seem to piss-off a lot of people:2thumbsup

Age? - well past 50....

[ducatilover]

The voice of experience might be about to fall from great height and explode. Or not. I can't tell. I don't fall, I gracefully depart the bike


^ The voice of experience.




As I said, it's completely subjective.
You might find a turbo fatkingdroadbob fun, I don't.

[Subike]

Um Guys Harley Davidson did try and enter the market with a model that could have taken on the Jap invasion, back when the invasion commenced The Harley Davidson V4 Nova.
Read here why it didnt go into production, even after road testing etc......

http://thekneeslider.com/harley-davidson-v4-nova/

http://www.bikerenews.com/AntiqueBikes/CodeNameNova.htm

So here are the answers from the source for a lot of the questions asked in this thread.
Not the possibility could be, may be, might be, answers form peoples imaginations

[Subike]

But then we have the , "What about a LAMS approved HD ?""

Well What do you know!!!!!!

http://www.newbikesinfo.com/motorcycle-news-2013-new-500-cm3-at-harley-davidson/

Stranger things have been known to happen

[wysper]

You've ridden a shit tonne of bikes; care to hazard a guess as to the differences in lap times of an average skilled, confident going fast rider on a XR1200, V-Rod, Bandit 1200, VTR1000 at, say, Manfield?

This assumes that the only relevant and important information about a bike is how fast it goes in comparison to other bikes.

Not all riders care who is fastest.
Or which bike is fastest.
Or who can get their knee down.
Or who can go 2.8 times the legal speed limit.

Believe it or not, there are some people who just like to ride.

They don't care if they can't out run you at the lights or out corner you in the twisties. Because their pleasure is derived from the ride itself.

As scummy said, one of the reasons he has a Harley is it is what a motorcycle should look like in his mind.

My 883 is like that for me - it screams motorcycle when I look at it in the garage or parked up at work. I enjoy riding it.

And for me that is the end of it.

Different bikes for different folks and different rides for different situations.

[Big Dave]

I don't.

Only because you haven't.

Game set match. Next.

[awayatc]

what to do to attract younger people to Harleys...?

just wait till they get a bit older....


a lot of bikes are way better bikes then I am a rider.....
only matter of time before I would find myself outperformed and outmanouvered (painfull at least)
My Harley and I are well matched,
I am up to it, and it is up to me.
I like that, and get enough thrills out of it.
Managed to grow older disrespectfully,
probably be able to grow even older still.
Good enough for me,
get a grin every time I start my tractor
every single time....

[HornetBoy]

I'm 23 and I've owned an old 92' 1200 Sporty ever since I got my full licence at about 19,mainly because I inherited it from my father . I thought it was a great bike , I've owned multiple jap bikes at the same time and always held onto it,really enjoyed the sound and ride style.

I think HD appeals to young riders in the same way that V8's appeal to young cage drivers , its just something that you either inherently love or you don't.Some go for the Subaru or evo and others go to the old Ford or Holden . The second hand market for HD bikes just doesn't seem to be as populated with cheaper/woirking bikes as with the Jap market aswell IMO.

[ducatilover]

Only because you haven't.

Game set match. Next.
No, Dave.
I said, it's subjective and nothing in the Harley range appeals to me, modified or not with the one exception of the XR (which is based purely on the looks)
We all find different bikes fun, you may very much enjoy a turbo big block Harley. I won't, it holds nothing at all that interests me at all.
It's what gives us such a great range of bikes on the market.

Fun is subjective.


edit for lulz:
I'll probably end up being a knowing-better than others Harley owner when I'm old, just because irony is good.

[Big Dave]

Maybe you should buy a SAAB 900.

[ducatilover]

I prefer my Volvo 850 GLT, in beige.

[Big Dave]

OT - I had a SAAB 900 as a company car once (and a Van Den Plas (or whatever it was) Jaguar and a '67 Mustang - I used to get the MD's hand-me-downs when he got bored.) The only redeeming features of the SAAB were the stereo - Alpine that could make your ears bleed - and its remarkable ability off road (but don't tell him that).

[ducatilover]

Was it a turbo one? I almost bought one about 5 or 6 years ago. I was muchly amused by the torque steer (muppet :rolleyes:)

But it was about as interesting as an MDF bookshelf.

[Big Dave]

Was it a turbo one?

Nah. Slower than your bike. But unlike your bike it had no redeeming features. :-P

[ducatilover]

Nah. Slower than your bike. But unlike your bike it had no redeeming features. :-P

That's impressively slow. One of my bikes has the motor on the floor. :bleh:

[Dangsta]

i'm 42 and have been riding cruisers for a few years. Never owned or wanted a sportbike in any way shape or form. Partly I think because I own a fast car and if I want to get somewhere quickly I'll drive that. My cruiser is for getting out, enjoying the ride and going 100-110kph. I love my current bike but every bike I've owned to date has been a stepping-stone to a wideglide. I don't know why I have to have one....just something appeals to me on a level I find it difficult to put into words. I know every second cruiser is a Harley...I know people laugh at them (and so do I when I see some old fat dude get off one in chaps and a bandana), I know they're too expensive and not super fast, I don't like too much chrome and I know some of them can be stupidly noisy....and I don't care. One day soon, I'm going to walk into a dealership with a bike I love and hasn't missed a beat plus ten grand and ride off on a cliche.....with a huge fuck-off grin on my face.

[trumpy]

...and ride off on a cliche.....with a huge fuck-off grin on my face.

That about says it right there. It doesn't really matter what you ride it's the size of the grin that counts.

I also like "when you turn your bike on, does it repay the favour?" (streettracker XR1200 forum)

I have spent the last five years on a 600 sports bike that I had huge fun developing and riding it but felt it was time for a change. I probably fit the traditional Harley demographic perfectly (self employed, drive a Bimmer blah, blah, blah) but couldn't quite get my head around the cruiser thing. Harley still came to the rescue though......I bought this this for myself as a 60th birthday present (well, her indoors wasn't going to now was she?). Love it, should have done a couple of years ago.

[idb]

Why I ride a Harley?

In no particular order and off the cuff:

a) cos I wanted one back in the 60's when I couldn't afford one.
b) they look like a bike should (in my eyes)
c) they are relatively easy to work on
d) can carry a decent amount of gear
e) are thrifty on gas
f) are torquey enough that frequent gear changing isn't needed
g) are reliable as any other brand - better than some.
h) need little maintenance
i) they seem to piss-off a lot of people:2thumbsup

Age? - well past 50....
j) where else are you going to use that 'bucket-o-tassels' you won at the A&P Show?

[Big Dave]

I went on the local MDA ride today.

Outstanding event.

Ladies (and a few blokes) pay $130 to be pillioned around the Sunshine Coast on a Harley. All proceeds go to the Muscular Dystrophy people. There were 300 on the ride and everyone - me included - had a phat time.

They were predominately greybeards, but there were a few younger set as well - and they were mostly on custom 72's and sporties.

[AllanB]

Have been thinking of this thread over the wet weekend.

Do HD even have a issue with trying to get younger riders? Do they care?

Over the next decade or so there are plenty of riders who will change from sports bikes or jap cruisers to HD's as they get 'older'.

[Smifffy]

Have been thinking of this thread over the wet weekend.

Do HD even have a issue with trying to get younger riders? Do they care?

Over the next decade or so there are plenty of riders who will change from sports bikes or jap cruisers to HD's as they get 'older'.

There is only one demographic they are interested in: the one with the cash to splash.

[Big Dave]

They have made a big effort to get more female riders in recent times too.

The 48 and 72 models are also aimed at yooof.

[AllanB]

There is only one demographic they are interested in: the one with the cash to splash.

I read in a mag some years back that HD 'expect' (encourage may be better ....) riders to spend between 25-30% of the original purchase price on 'goodies' for their new rides.

It is one thing that pisses me off about HD - they produce very good machines BUT they are aware they can be significantly better, they just ask you to open the HD Screaming Eagle catalogue and your pocket to make the bike what they 'should' be. Yes you can get a HD special model with all the SE shit on it but they load the price up something awful.

[R6_kid]

Affordability. Having been the the US and seen how accessible they are over there it makes me sick to the stomach to see the NZ/Aus prices. It's hard to feel loyal to a brand when you're paying over 100% markup on what they are in the US, the only real difference being the way the headlight lens points.

[scumdog]

Affordability. Having been the the US and seen how accessible they are over there it makes me sick to the stomach to see the NZ/Aus prices. It's hard to feel loyal to a brand when you're paying over 100% markup on what they are in the US, the only real difference being the way the headlight lens points.

Yet 12 years ago a bike that cost $26,000 in the US cost the same in NZ.

Only back then the Kiwi pesos (dollar) was only worth 45 cents US.

A Yank would have been better off buying a H-D from NZ and shipping it back.

Go figure...

[ducatilover]

I bet Scummy wants his bike to appeal to the younger ones :bleh:

[scumdog]

I bet Scummy wants his bike to appeal to the younger ones :bleh:


Well, after all, I AM one of the young(er) ones!

(And I don't mean Neil or Vivian or Rick etc :D )

[ducatilover]

Well, after all, I AM one of the young(er) ones!

(And I don't mean Neil or Vivian or Rick etc :D )

YOU'RE a younger one?
What are you bunch, a gaggle of Dumbledores on bikes? :devil2:

[lakedaemonian]

Yet 12 years ago a bike that cost $26,000 in the US cost the same in NZ.

Only back then the Kiwi pesos (dollar) was only worth 45 cents US.

A Yank would have been better off buying a H-D from NZ and shipping it back.

Go figure...

That was a bit of a strange time really.

Back then around 2000 the Kiwi Dollar was a good bit undervalued(Americans/Poms were coming down here for holidays that turned into shopping sprees across the spectrum to the point of buying amnd filling shipping containers with all kinds of things)

AND

People in America were in queues for up to two years on some models waiting for new Harleys, unless they were willing to pay up to $5K US as a premium for immediate delivery.

Weird time and weird circumstances.

ALSO....I know a fair few Kiwis who still brag about Harleys they bought new or used in the 90's and flipping them for a profit locally within NZ.......and that's beside the Harley export market you alluded to for a bit there.

Same went with muscle cars leaving NZ for a few years.....thankfully, they are now returning en masse.

[Maha]

How can Harley Davidson appeal to younger riders?

Offer them a grey wig as part of the deal...:wait:

[avgas]

1) Take an 883
2) Remove everything that is not functional
3) Improve suspension
4) Sell at cost + gst + 5%

That's pretty much what honda did back in the 70's/80's
and chevy

and Hyundai have done this recently with their coupe. specifically for boy racers.

[jolly_26]

1) Take an 883
2) Remove everything that is not functional
3) Improve suspension
4) Sell at cost + gst + 5%


Pretty much this. Maybe raise the seat and give it a slightly more sporting stance. Maybe I'm completely missing the point though, if you want sporting from a HD you're probably looking at it wrong.

[nallac]

Pretty much this. Maybe raise the seat and give it a slightly more sporting stance. Maybe I'm completely missing the point though, if you want sporting from a HD you're probably looking at it wrong.


Kinda like what Buell did....

[Big Dave]

Kinda like what Buell did....

That - and add 60 horses.

[Tarded]

i'm 42 and have been riding cruisers for a few years. Never owned or wanted a sportbike in any way shape or form. Partly I think because I own a fast car and if I want to get somewhere quickly I'll drive that. My cruiser is for getting out, enjoying the ride and going 100-110kph. I love my current bike but every bike I've owned to date has been a stepping-stone to a wideglide. I don't know why I have to have one....just something appeals to me on a level I find it difficult to put into words. I know every second cruiser is a Harley...I know people laugh at them (and so do I when I see some old fat dude get off one in chaps and a bandana), I know they're too expensive and not super fast, I don't like too much chrome and I know some of them can be stupidly noisy....and I don't care. One day soon, I'm going to walk into a dealership with a bike I love and hasn't missed a beat plus ten grand and ride off on a cliche.....with a huge fuck-off grin on my face.

And thats the point.
Fuck em all. Ride what you like. Id have a street glide for the comfy seat and stereo if I had the coin for a flash 2nd bike.
Go racing if you want to ride quick.
Stopwatches are very confrontational - too much for most posers. :tugger:

I have had jappas, a Buell Cyclone (cool bike) and an Itye thing now.
But dont EVER wear bumless pants. Its disgraceful. :spanking:

[ducatilover]

Kinda like what Buell did....

One word in there offers a solution...
I don't think the HD "image" thing is aimed at young people, but it'd be cool if the XB series came back. I loved the XB12 I rode (except the noise, but that's an easy fix eh) and the XB9 was okay, but a bit wheezy.
A LAMS sized/entry level XB style bike would be awesome. Low revving vtwin, fuck all HP and just tractor esque torque matched to a good looking and sporty chassis? Winner winner, chicken dinner.

[Tarded]

So not the B Last 500cc single they built then?

[ducatilover]

So not the B Last 500cc single they built then?

No, ideally it would move under its own power.

[Winston001]

Much as I reject the modern mantra that a business needs to update and change over time, there is a kernel of truth.

Every business needs to adapt to current technology and customers expectations.

HD are as doomed as the Duisenberg if they stick to their current models. Its worth remembering that HD nearly went under 30 years ago. Remember Norton, BSA, Benelli et seq. Just names for most younger bikers today yet some of us remember them on the shop floor. Gone now.

If HD want to continue as a thriving marque then they should change to 60 degree watercooled engines and make riding their bikes as simple as possible. Handling might be important to us in NZ but many riders do not really think about it and in the USA/Europe it is not critical. So maybe HD can get away with flexible chassis although it would be nice to think they'd fix that too.

[Voltaire]

I'm over 50 and after reading this I think I need a Harley_ Davidson......dang, I can't buy them for under $3000 like old airhead BMW's.....bugger. Only accessories I have are slippers and a pipe.

[Big Dave]

HD are as doomed as the Duisenberg if they stick to their current models..

It would appear that's not a universal view.

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=HOG#symbol=hog;range=5y;compare=;indicat or=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0 ;logscale=off;source=undefined;

[Big Dave]

I'm over 50 and after reading this I think I need a Harley_ Davidson......dang, I can't buy them for under $3000 like old airhead BMW's.....bugger. Only accessories I have are slippers and a pipe.


I have a new Road King test bike currently. It's a fabulous cruiser style bike.
Goes, stops and handles very nicely. Big torque, smooth, and absolutely gorgeous to look at.
Doesn't need much in extras, maybe a slight de-baffle and a pillion backrest and I could ride the wheels off it. Like hundreds of thousands of owners already do.

Only thing you need to do is add a zero (and leather slippers) :-)

[Paul in NZ]

To appeal to younger riders? Um - what younger riders? You mean the ones on dirt bikes????

Seriously they would need a younger designer with a 'name' and an ability to produce something commercially practical.

[ducatilover]

To appeal to younger riders? Um - what younger riders? You mean the ones on dirt bikes????

Seriously they would need a younger designer with a 'name' and an ability to produce something commercially practical.

How 'bout a DC shoes edition, or a Kardashian special?

[scumdog]

How 'bout a DC shoes edition, or a Kardashian special?

Or have Justin Beiber or Milly Cyrus riiding one?

[ducatilover]

Or have Justin Beiber or Milly Cyrus riiding one?

You're a marketing genius! All the 12 year olds would que up with their pocket moeny.

Then they'd realise that Harleys are massively overpriced for a water pump with wheels :bleh:

[Big Dave]

How 'bout a DC shoes edition


I don't do shoes. Just open minded observations. And yeah - no place for that shit here. :laugh:

[Swoop]

Appeal to younger market?

Rebadge it as the iBike and put a keypad and display on the tank so they can txt/surf the interdweeb on it.

[avgas]

Kinda like what Buell did....
yes and no.

The harley "cost + gst + 5%" is about half the price of what new buells came out as.
I am not talking about spending $1M in R&D. I am talking about stripping down a harley to the core product then selling it.
Think more along the lines of bicycle with engine more than F16 that is permanently grounded.
Buells were great bikes - but it was like applying NASA technology to a CAT.
I am saying strip the CAT down to a monster truck.

[Flip]

One great reason I love Harleys is the spotty yobbos don't.

[scumdog]

One great reason I love Harleys is the spotty yobbos don't.

Amen to that!!:2thumbsup

[Ocean1]

I am talking about stripping down a harley to the core product then selling it.


They're 99% styling excercise, there'd be nothing left.

[Zamiam]

If H-D ceases to exist all you sport yobbos would have nothing to aspire to.

[Smifffy]

Or have Justin Beiber or Milly Cyrus riiding one?

What an excellent idea. I wish I'd thought of it...

[st00ji]

im 32. always thought HDs were crap. old fashioned, slow etc.

been riding for about 5 years now, and these days i understand the appeal a bit more.

i guess i dont quite fall into the young rider category anymore, but that xr1200 thing is heading in the right direction i reckon. like the headlight setup in paricular.

do they still make them though? dont think i saw it in the 2013 lineup on their homepage. i'd consider one, but im sure the price would be prohibitive. they would need to not make that harley noise as well TBH :P

[BIG DOUG]

Yea I have an xr1200 + ride the shit out of it and I'm 52,but I also have HD's from 1951 up to the 2009 xr.Harley's are the smallblock chevy of the motorcycle world lol.

[ducatilover]

One great reason I love Harleys is the spotty yobbos don't.

Wouldn't choosing it on its merits be a bit more logical? :mellow:

[scumdog]

Wouldn't choosing it on its merits be a bit more logical? :mellow:

The way I see it the fact a Harley-Davidson 'bike annoys the owners of 'Other Brands'(tm) is a major merit in itself....

[ducatilover]

The way I see it the fact a Harley-Davodson 'bike annoys the owners of 'Other Brands'(tm) is a major merit in itself....

:yes: I almost want one just for that factor, but I don't think I could find one of the right era (when they were actually good) 283220

[98tls]

One great reason I love Harleys is the spotty yobbos don't.

I doubt spotty yobbos can tell the difference between a Harley and its imitations to be honest,i do however get a laugh outta some of the spotty geriatrics that turn up at rallys on the real thing,specially when the sun goes down and the bullshit starts.;)To much time spent watching Anarchy methinks.

[SPman]

My nephew is 24. He's had a Night Rod for a year or two. (lives in Brisbane) Loves it, but he,s just bought a house so it may have to go.......

[Banditbandit]

Leesseee .. to make a Harley Diddleson attractive to a younger person they would have to ...


BUILD AT WHOLE DIFFERENT BIKE !!!

[Big Dave]

My nephew is 24.

Nice.

24...C and perfick here today. I spent the day in the Gold Coast hinterland on that Road King and had an absolutely phat time. I ferkin' dig that bike too.

[idb]

Leesseee .. to make a Harley Diddleson attractive to a younger person they would have to ...


BUILD AT WHOLE DIFFERENT BIKE !!!

A strongly-argued point right there.
And in CAPITALS as well.

[Tarded]

The VR1000 (or whatever it was) was kind of cool looking but would get its arse whipped in the sportbike market.

Massey Ferguson
Harley Davidson

same but different.

The image is chubby old guys with do rags flubbing around on hogs pretending they are slasher the sergeant arms on the weekend, not Cyril the accounts assistant during the week.

There is plenty of posing with bikes but harley take the cake. And by the looks they eat it too.

My Buell Cyclone was fun and yoofs liked it, but it wasnt a hog as such.

One tip for Herly is to stop with the cast frame sections, young people are horrified.

But Im closer to 40 than 30 so Im too old to know anyway :)

For the record Id have a hog but only as a second bike.
The Duke is #1 - luv you long time.

[ducatilover]

I talked to a few mates (I have them, I think) and I have a few who would like to own a Harley, all under 25 years old.
But they cannot justify the money for something they don't want to use every day

So, my conclusion is the yoof market in NZ is quite small and not a great deal of young chaps like me are willing to tick one up. The guys I know who can afford them tend to like bikes that go, stop and handle well.
I think the Harley market is really there for "older" chaps/chappetes who want to stroll along on a comfy seat, and can afford it.
And then there are the posers and people with inferiority complexes (like Ducati owners, and lovers...)

[Big Dave]

Are you saying that reality is different to online stereotyping?

Get. Out.

[scumdog]

I talked to a few mates (I have them, I think) and I have a few who would like to own a Harley, all under 25 years old.
But they cannot justify the money for something they don't want to use every day

S

Funny how so many have a Jet-ski or similar.

And they can't/don't use those things everyday either.

[ducatilover]

Are you saying that reality is different to online stereotyping?

Get. Out. Fuck no, I never have a sensible thought


Funny how so many have a Jet-ski or similar.

And they can't/don't use those things everyday either.

Nobody my age I know has one...
Plenty have nice cars and weekend toys, but when you're young a weekend toy needs to be more exciting (mind you I have a Volvo and a GN...)

[Big Dave]

Here you go Brett. I asked Adam Wright, the Sales & Marketing Director for H-D Aus and NZ what Harley are doing to attract the younger rider.

"We are a brand that appeals to a broad audience, which includes younger guys. We have found relevance of products to be a big factor in appealing to new, younger buyers. Harley has always been that cool, laid back type of brand that has an emotional attachement with its riders. It's about belonging and seeking out friendship which Harley brings to the party every time.
Things like Matt Mingay doing his thing with his 1200 Sporty at events around the country helps generate awareness for H-D amongst younger Gen X & Gen Yers. In addition to that we build excitement at events such as Colley Rocks On Car Show as well as an association with surfing events around the country. Have you seen our 72 Sporty?

In addition to this we are about to launch our Judgement Day III campaign which is youth targeted. It has a cool tattoo theme with it this year with people able to get online to design their own tattoo to win prizes along with voting on the best customized bike (see attached). The program goes live next Monday June 3rd. We have a holding site up at present so people can preregister. Go to; harleyjudgementday.com.au (http://harleyjudgementday.com.au/)

https://vimeo.com/66054676 (Matt Mingay Video)"

[Tarded]

Horseshit on the 'nice people ride pigly davidsons' bit.

I sold Hardly parts at a dealer and the bulk of the late model owners were the most pretentious tossers I have met on bikes. They do spend the coin happily though.

Sad old wanna bes. Like when they arrive at the shop in a taxi van from the rally site still wearing their coveted bumless leather pants.
And a do rag, as stated earlier.
No stereo types here, observations people.

Old harleys are cool, new ones are not. The guys after bits for old shovels etc were good people to deal with.

And Ducati owners are better mechanics than the rest of you :killingme

[Big Dave]

Makes me like that new Road King even more.

[AllanB]

Makes me like that new Road King even more.

I've test ridden a couple. I don't get em in a NZ situation. Over priced, overweight, under powered and under braked. I presume if I was curising endless straight line roads in the USA they would appeal more, laid back, music on, cruise.

In NZ for touring there are much better options for a fraction of the $.

[ducatilover]

I've test ridden a couple. I don't get em in a NZ situation. Over priced, overweight, under powered and under braked. I presume if I was curising endless straight line roads in the USA they would appeal more, laid back, music on, cruise.

In NZ for touring there are much better options for a fraction of the $.

No way, Dave writes stuff and he knows bestest

[Brian d marge]

Sorry no battery , so can't read all thread

HD
There is no shortage of them here , south Japan ,
Every man and his dog is riding one ,,,,,and the funny thing is ,,the outlaw rider types are the only ones who seem to wave at a strange bicyclist

The full dresser mob Can go fk themselves


Stephen

[AllanB]

No way, Dave writes stuff and he knows bestest

Ride one and let me know what you think ...........

Dave's allowed to be paid for his opinion, I'm allowed mine for free!

[ducatilover]

Ride one and let me know what you think ...........



:niceone: I've ridden a handful


Although that just sounds like a metaphor for wanking, either way, not my cuppa.

[Big Dave]

283377

Cool - this will help me blurt conscious for a ruff script.

I've just done 1,000km on a 2013 Road King in a mixture of SEQ hinterland - which has some similarity to say, Northand, a heap of 8 lane Freeway along the coast, both North and South of Brisbane - and a bit of big city work (around 2 million in Bris now)

Couldn't get enough of it. It's a pleasure to be on board. Brakes are fine. (If you want one with excellent stoppers try a Night Rod.) not killer, but fine. It's a 350kg vehicle. That's more the 'issue' than the quality of the brakes.

Power and torque are also fine for riding at around the speed limit - or a bit above. Maybe even ideal. You get to work the engine.

I had some wonderful days out the back of the Gold Coast, rolling through lush hill country on the fringes of the rainforest. Not NZ, but good, verdant hill country. I thought the bike was a real treat to punt along.

If you could do so - it would happily chug along at 80mph all day with hardly a hint of vibration. Overtaking power is fine - on the back of the torque.

The Road King has pretty good cornering clearance for a foot-boarder and what it lacks in sports capability via the floorboards, it makes up for in lounge chair comfort on the M1 and over the Harbour bridge.

Not to say it isn't pleasurable to chuck through a corner either. Some of that also depends on the size of the rider and what particular 'Harley' you are talking about. Most of the riding I've been doing with a pal on a Heritage Softail. The difference between it and the Road King in cornering clearance is quite skriiiiitch noticeable. Bigger the rider the more we seem to like them too.

Overall performance is all I 'need' in a Road Bike. Spooled up, it just sings to me - like a lot of bikes from numerous makers do, but I also think the 103 cube's performance is better suited to bike with 'finite cornering clearance' than some of the other extra-large capacity bikes.

To some extent - performance evaluation is relative too. That's why they give them to me for more than 1,000km if I need it.

When I jumped off my Buell, any cruiser seemed a bit unwieldy at first. Now when I go to one from my KLR I have to watch my speeds, cause I'm usually 20kph over the limit. It takes a while to get the mojo. To know without looking.

Agree there are mucho better touring options, my choice at the moment would be a Triumph adventurer if touring NZ was the only ask, but the RK tours quite well, does excellent city cruiser duty and is great for a 'non-gp' pleasure ride around the hills. Lots of folks like a show and shine too. Lots of folks have more than one bike in the shed.

Riding group, endless accessories (made just to piss you off), pretty good parties, all the other bits that come with the brand - value is relative to the individual. Some guys own three and spend $60k on bits and then talk of their next project. Lifestylers. I don't begrudge anyone's. (Well maybe Mashman's).

All the HOG events I've been to have been great. I don't share their fashion sense beyond the tee shirt, (for that matter I don't dress like a leathered up power ranger either) and I'm not that comfortable with the secret squirrel handshake, otherwise the people have been just like the folks at all the other brand's events I've been invited too. Motorcycle enthusiasts from all walks of life. Some of them are the hardest cases I've met in motorcycledom - some only do a few thousand K's a year, although some I've read seem to think that's an offence.

Overall I like 'em.

I do really like the bike too. Minter. Unfortunately I have to return it on Thursday.

[Winston001]

Nice essay Dave and much of what you say is in accordance with many bikers. A bike which is enjoyable to ride on broad roads at reasonable speed. All power to you brother.

But..this is New Zealand. We don't have long vacant stretches of road. Ok, there are some magnificent stretches in Canterbury and Otago but mostly our roads are short and sharp. There are subliminal roads out there: roads so compelling in their deep arcs that we can ride them not even knowing where we are.

I have an abiding memory of passing through the Kaikoura coast at 160+k on the Ducati and it was an ethereal experience. Completely mesmerising, a Zen elevation away from the world with only the blacktop and the vanishing horizon in mind: totally immersed in the moment.

Ducatis do that. Accept no others.





Ooooohhhhh sob broke my gorgeous Ducati dammnit to hell.

[Big Dave]

Part of the reason for having this bike is to produce a 'where to ride guide' for KR readers on holiday over here. I've been riding around the region comparing notes as it were.

Hinterland SEQ is quite similar road-wise to a lot of places in NZ. It's one of the better parts of the continent in that regard. Northland, parts of your southland and the Catlins. Hill country is hill country. Down around the NSW/Qld border is not unlike some back country in the Waikato.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/m7L9FLvrkhA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

The main difference is how far apart the good bits are once you leave the great dividing range. The surfaces here are a bit more reliable too.

Traffic generally is denser (leave it!) than NZ. There are 3.05 Million people in an area about 1/5th of the North Island.

And it was 24c and perfik for riding yesterday but I won't rub it in :-P

The Roadie would work fine in Orkland too. Where I've been riding it is not that dissimilar.

Fiordland and the West Coast or Waipua Forest it ain't.

But when I think about it - I have ridden a Goldwing and a Victory Vision around the south island and dug them a heap too (And the Trophy...and the Tiger) RK is same class as the big boppers.

[Big Dave]

And FWIW I quite like Ducati engines now. But the only chassis (of those I have tried) that I'm comfortable on is the Multistrudle and while I enjoy how it goes and the bam - I couldn't live with its looks.

I've been trying to line up a spin on a Diavel but there are no testers going atm.

[ducatilover]

And FWIW I quite like Ducati engines now. But the only chassis (of those I have tried) that I'm comfortable on is the Multistrudle and while I enjoy how it goes and the bam - I couldn't live with its looks.

I've been trying to line up a spin on a Diavel but there are no testers going atm.
I'm not being a knob, but I don't see a chap of your stature fitting on most silly Italian bikes.
Anybody who can live with the looks of the Multistrapper is somewhat sick :lol:

The Diavel looks like a bit of a laugh.




I have an abiding memory of passing through the Kaikoura coast at 160+k on the Ducati and it was an ethereal experience. Completely mesmerising, a Zen elevation away from the world with only the blacktop and the vanishing horizon in mind: totally immersed in the moment.
Strangely not everyone wants that :bleh:

May mate's father in Auckland rides a big shiny Harley every day (not sure what model, it's blue, very large and the model name is about half the alphabet) and he's not a pretentious accountant. He also rides everywhere in NZ on it, with the wife.
I expect it'd be very good at all that long distance stuff. Not sure 'bout commuting, but he doesn't mind.

Still massively ghey though (have to say that, I sound like I understand why people want different things to me)

[Asymonds1]

I understand Motoguzi & Ducati in particular are looking at similar issues with regards to demographics.

im a guzzi rider myself and i love it. my guzzi is an old 1987 400cc bike but when i upgrade in time i actually wont be able to afford a new or 2nd hand one cuse their demographic is for people with a thick wallet, i think ill be going for a second hand sportster after my fun runs out on the guzzi. ill still like to keep it tho

[scumdog]

Rode a mile or two in America on an Ultraglide Classic - the 'full monte' bagger dripping in chrome and luggage boxes.

We were two-up and got off the Interstate freeways as much as possible, got onto some roads that were as twist and narrow as any in NZ.

The bike was a dream to ride, a real 'mile-eater' if on the freeway at 85 - 90mph in 6th gear (hence why we went onto the back roads).

When we get older and on a lesser income we will probably trade in both our current bikes for one.

Most negative thing I found about the bike? - judging where to put my feet on the ground without the front & rear running-boards getting in the way, they're not far apart.
I had not previously ridden a bike with them, I'm used to regular pegs, tons of give and take where you put you feet down with them.

[imdying]

what can Harley Davidson do, in your opinion, to appeal to younger ridersNab them young, make a LAMs model?

[Edbear]

My C50T was very close to the RK dimensions-wise and of course I loved it. I could commute, scratch better than any Harley, cruise in comfort and it was economical to boot. A mate riding his GSX1400 was sure it was at least a thou, and was gobsmacked to be told it was "only" 805cc! Another mate with a Suzuki Bandit 1200S simply couldn't keep up in the twisties so it is really down to rider skill in the end.

I love the Road King, in fact most of the Harley models, including the T-Bird, 1200S, and the Electra Glide.

You simply cannot apply logic to a Harley, (or any motorcycle for that matter), or say this or that is better or worse. Harley's have their appeal simply because of what they are and those who like them will like them for no particular reason. If you love your bike and love riding it, what else is there to consider?

[Big Dave]

Nab them young, make a LAMs model?

Got me beat why a 48 isn't LAMS approved. Bit heavy but otherwise I thought it would be ideal.

[Big Dave]

Ride one and let me know what you think ...........

Dave's allowed to be paid for his opinion, I'm allowed mine for free!

Tell Spank Me to send a cheque!

Only money I'll make out of reviewing this bike is on You Tube.

[Big Dave]

Turns out I had to return it today. Lucky I checked the email.
Back to being a KLR 650 rider as of an hour ago.
I still like it too, but suddenly the world seems less glamorous. :-)

[Big Dave]

Oh - And of course there are a few things different over here as well:

283415

[scumdog]

Oh - And of course there are a few things different over here as well:



We gettem here too Dave - only made of tar they is - and slippery as a butchers whatsit when wet...

[Maha]

We gettem here too Dave - only made of tar they is - and slippery as a butchers whatsit when wet...

''slippery as a butchers whatsit''...hook? block? hatchet? steel? floor? wife? ex wife? eftpos machine? crumbed sausage? help me out here. :rolleyes:

[Big Dave]

We gettem here too Dave - only made of tar they is - and slippery as a butchers whatsit when wet...

There are a few of the tar variety here. Not nearly as prevalent though. Roads mostly laid as hot mix rather than chip seal makes a difference.

[ducatilover]

Got me beat why a 48 isn't LAMS approved. Bit heavy but otherwise I thought it would be ideal.

I thought they were a 1200? But I really know nothing about them hurleh dervudsins.

[Big Dave]

I thought they were a 1200? But I really know nothing about them hurleh dervudsins.

Quite correct - I was meaning the Iron 883.

I still get muddled with the XXLCXXLFLHTUCVXCXXLL bit too.

[ducatilover]

Quite correct - I was meaning the Iron 883. 883 would be a good entry level cruiser, they're not potent enough to scare anybody or make you do dumb shit.


I still get muddled with the XXLCXXLFLHTUCVXCXXLL bit too. Not a fan of that model... that's the one with the same wheels, frame tank and other bits as the other XL series, but painted matt candyfloss rape pink?

Or is that one of my bikes :spanking:

[Big Dave]

Here's what I got:

THE SPORTSTER
7 Models. All begin with XL...
Features:
All XL Sportster models share the same 45 degree Evolution V-Twin engine design in either 883cc or 1200 cc displacements
5-speed transmission and belt final drive
ESPFI (Electronic Sequential Port Fuel Injection)
All Sportster models have two-point rubber mount frame to isolate engine vibration


THE DYNA
5 models start with FXD.. - except the Switchback which is FLD.
features:
Twin Cam engine
6-speed Cruise Drive transmission
Powertrain mounting system that uses a unique two-point rubber mount


THE SOFTAIL
7 models. Two start with FXS... - 5 with FLS...
features:
Twin Cam 103 counter balanced engine
6 speed Cruise Drive transmission
Rear shock absorbers mounted under the transmission creating a ‘hard tail’ look
ESPFI (Electronic Sequential Port Fuel Injection)
Horseshoe shaped oil tank


THE V-ROD®
2 models start with VRSC...
features:
Liquid-cooled, 1250cc, 60 degree V-Twin engine
Rubber-mounted engine with single counter-balancer
Dual overhead cams, four valves per cylinder
ESPFI (Electronic Sequential Port Fuel Injection)
5-speed transmission

THE TOURING FAMILY
4 Models - 3 start with FLH... one with FLTRX
features:
All touring models use a four-point rubber isolated Twin Cam 103 cubic inch engine
6-Speed Cruise drive transmission
Oil tank mounted under the transmission case
Electronic throttle control system


CVO
First introduced in 1999 the Custom Vehicle Operations range represents the pinnacle of Harley-Davidson craftsmanship. Each machine is hand assembled by a single technician, with hours of craft and care invested in producing the ultimate in factory customs. Each CVO motorcycle is part of a strictly limited edition utilising the latest technology and finest components.

[ducatilover]

:wait: Whhhhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooossssssssssssssssss shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh is the noise I just heard

[Big Dave]

:wait: Whhhhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooossssssssssssssssss shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh is the noise I just heard

It was mainly for me.


'Bonneville' has always seemed easier, but wires get crossed with Adventurer and Thunderbird now.

[ducatilover]

It was mainly for me.


'Bonneville' has always seemed easier, but wires get crossed with Adventurer and Thunderbird now.

I'm good with Trumpies, probably because I like 'em.
I'm good with most things, not Harleys though, I'm even good with Holdens/Fords and I'm not an Australian car fan...:( The joys of reading too many mags as a kid (no TV)

[AllanB]

I'd rather be on a Road King running over that snake than almost any other bike!

[Big Dave]

I'd rather be on a Road King running over that snake than almost any other bike!

Run over it! Several of us stopped to check it out. Beautiful creature - I got 2 feet away from it. A courier was out of his van directing traffic around it.

It's like a $10k fine for killing one on purpose.

[Tarded]

I'd rather be on a Road King running over that snake than almost any other bike!

True, but most others would be able to move around it :bleh:

[Big Dave]

The bike with the best lower leg accommodation/protection as standard is the Victory Vision.

[ducatilover]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh1bpMBqFiM one for Large Dave :niceone:
An XR12 can out run poorly ridden sport bikes (looks rather fun). It's not very fast in a straight line though, but it's not really meant to be.

I like XR1200s

[Big Dave]

Well cheers, but goobers going around in circles I am sooo not interested in.

What appeals is 'satisfaction' as a road bike.

[ducatilover]

Well cheers, but goobers going around in circles I am sooo not interested in.

What appeals is 'satisfaction' as a road bike.

Still a neat vid :first:
Plonker rides faster than I do on my stodgy 600 :wait:

[Tarded]

Still a neat vid :first:
Plonker rides faster than I do on my stodgy 600 :wait:

And that why tracks are so good.
You can buy everything except skill and tracks are way too confronting for many.

The guy on the 1098 (1198?) should be ashamed! Harley outbraking superbikes - very amusing.

Sporties are much maligned but they shouldnt be.
I take the piss out of hoglys but Ive ridden a couple of sporties and torque is fun. The sport versions appeal more, not the chrome no ground clearance models.

[Big Dave]

Still a neat vid :first:
Plonker rides faster than I do on my stodgy 600 :wait:

Yuh - one of the first from round'ere to ride one waneye.

283436

[ducatilover]

I want to have a go on an XR1200, I can't say that about anything else in the range.
It's no sport bike, but I think it'd be proper fun to ride up a nice road.

And less stupid than my POS that apparently has to break the speed limit and be leant far too much to be any sort of fun (my fault, I built the damn thing)

[Big Dave]

It appears you have completely got the wrong end of what I was talking about.

I've noted that on the priority list of things I need to correct. How are you placed in 2040?

[Big Dave]

In non harley speak Duckie.

Like I said - I'm not interested in race tracks - just road and off road riding. So that's the qualifier. If you are a track head stop reading now.


If someone said to me here Dave, you can have either a V7 Moto Guzzi or an F4 MV Agusta for a ride around the Coromandel.

In the first instance I'd take the one I hadn't ridden.

Having done it done it on both I would take the 45 hp Guzzi nine times out of 10. (Once because the MV is just so horny).

Because I can really give the V7 a flogging, row it through the gearbox, use a heap of body english and 'use' the machine. Rewarding, engaging - without actually going particularly fast. Fast enough to draw some heat, but you will probably still have enough demerit points to do it more than once and if it does all turn to custard it isn't quite as thick. Big grin factor.

If you do more than sit just above idle on the MV for most of the loop, beautiful thing that it is, you risk having it impounded. You push it anywhere near its handling limits on those sufaces, surrounded by the dropkick motorists...If you *could* do 180kph everywhere - different story. It can do that in first gear. The rest of the ride becomes an exercise in self-control.

That isn't as satisfying as giving something a workout.

[ducatilover]

:niceone: I get ya.

It's the reason why I'm building my little bike. Bendy chassis and 600cc low power thumper :banana:

[Ocean1]

The guy on the 1098 (1198?) should be ashamed! Harley outbraking superbikes - very amusing.


... without touching the front brake. In fact I didn't see him use it at all.

But then I don't think the sporty dudes were actually racing.

[carbonhed]

... without touching the front brake. In fact I didn't see him use it at all.

But then I don't think the sporty dudes were actually racing.

Looks suspiciously like the sighting laps for the slow group. There were a couple of competently ridden sports bikes though @ 1.30 and 3.50... Harley douchebag really haunted them... very fkin briefly. :rolleyes:

[idb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh1bpMBqFiM one for Large Dave :niceone:
An XR12 can out run poorly ridden sport bikes (looks rather fun). It's not very fast in a straight line though, but it's not really meant to be.

I like XR1200s

Haha, great fun!

[AllanB]

While that video is fun it proves nothing other than a very good rider will always out perform a average one.

Best to watch a vid of the XR1200 racing series.

Google XR1200 racing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B26FVkm3FvE

[Tarded]

In non harley speak Duckie.

Like I said - I'm not interested in race tracks - just road and off road riding. So that's the qualifier. If you are a track head stop reading now.


If someone said to me here Dave, you can have either a V7 Moto Guzzi or an F4 MV Agusta for a ride around the Coromandel.

In the first instance I'd take the one I hadn't ridden.

Having done it done it on both I would take the 45 hp Guzzi nine times out of 10. (Once because the MV is just so horny).

Because I can really give the V7 a flogging, row it through the gearbox, use a heap of body english and 'use' the machine. Rewarding, engaging - without actually going particularly fast. Fast enough to draw some heat, but you will probably still have enough demerit points to do it more than once and if it does all turn to custard it isn't quite as thick. Big grin factor.

If you do more than sit just above idle on the MV for most of the loop, beautiful thing that it is, you risk having it impounded. You push it anywhere near its handling limits on those sufaces, surrounded by the dropkick motorists...If you *could* do 180kph everywhere - different story. It can do that in first gear. The rest of the ride becomes an exercise in self-control.

That isn't as satisfying as giving something a workout.

I agree.

Im happy with the 80hp/ft.lbs I have. I can actually give it a bit of shit and not see number starting with 2 on the dial.

The big jappas I have had did exactly what you say the MV would do (in less style!)- warp speed before it got interesting. The ZZR1100 being the worst - funny that. - a jato rocket arm chair.

I believe the saying is something like the policeman never thinks its a funny as you do.

I imagine a 1000 would be really frustrating in general in the modern era. They are so bloody competent by all accounts that I dont how people ever behave on them. or stay awake if they do so.

So a sporty has appeal here again too I guess. I say sportys as they can lean a bit. A prerequisite for an 'only' bike. If Im stacking up toys its open season.

Its more fun to hammer a slower bike than restrain a mega grunter in my experience.
Esp if its a rorty V twin.
Loud pipes enhance lives.

All of which answers the original question SFA. :facepalm:

[Big Dave]

There is some pertinence in regard to original - convince the young buck he doesn't 'need' 300kph.

[AllanB]

It is a odd thing this motorcycling. My Hornet 900 punches out what 110hp if one believes the brochure (yeah yeah rear wheel is less) it is a nice torquey engine and in reality I don't use anywhere near the full hp much. As with most IL4's it's at the top of the rev range.

Even so if you told me I could buy a special 'box' that plugged in somewhere and I'd get a magic 130hp (with no loss of torque of course) I'd start saving for it.

And the same shit applies to most Harleys, first step is to let those big pistons breathe better - inlet and outlet bolt-ons release a lot of ponies. They do not need to be stupid loud to gain this either.

Of interest I note that when there was a Vance and Hines sponsored XR1200 race series in the States they had a kit that included airbox, pipes, damper and a 17 inch front wheel. Stock front is a 18 I think and the 17 offered a choice of all that sticky rubber out there.

The XR was a dead duck in the USA ............ I guess they were too fast, after all if you are wearing leather chaps there must be a point where anything over 70mph starts they whipping against your legs like a $150 an hour mistress.


Harley has tried to appeal to the younger buyer - the 48 and similar Sportsters are marketed towards the 'cool' younger crowd.

[Big Dave]

Personally I prefer around 100hp or a motor with big torque - or both - for the times I carry a passenger. All the mega V-twins makes virtually no difference with a pillion.

[Wayz]

I grew up around harley riding uncles, who owned their first Harley's in their mid twenty's. thus making it my life long dream to own a harley one day....I've given most bikes a decent go but nothing soothed my soul like my first ride on a big block...amen!
:headbang:

[Wayz]

...I do however get sick of only seeing older blokes on Harley's. I was in road and sport a couple months ago looking at a bike and come close to buying it till some old wanker (looked around mid 50's) come up and asked the sales rep I was talking to 'have you sold this one?' To which both me and the rep replied 'almost a done deal' to only receive a reply that went like 'ok, add $2000 to what this guy is paying and I'll wheel it out today' I looked at him and said 'are you serious?' He said I am dead serious, where do I pay......anyhow, I told him go for it (little did he know that it was catalogued so no matter what I could've had the same bike the next for $2000 less...a couple weeks later I went with a mate to get his bike a w.o.f at a local garage when low and behold, on the back of a trailer being towed by B.M.W SUV was the bike I missed out on, with more scratches than a D.J. Set....and of course the wanker who bought it haha.....:niceone:

[Bonez]

Being 50 something HDs other than the discontinued XR have no real appeal to me personally, But each to their own and all that stuff. What would increase HD sales to the younger set? A free tattoo with every sale obviously.......

[Crasherfromwayback]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh1bpMBqFiM one for Large Dave :niceone:
An XR12 can out run poorly ridden sport bikes (looks rather fun). It's not very fast in a straight line though, but it's not really meant to be.

I like XR1200s

What a bunch of fucking pussies!

[scumdog]

The XR was a dead duck in the USA ............ I guess they were too fast, after all if you are wearing leather chaps there must be a point where anything over 70mph starts they whipping against your legs like a $150 an hour mistress.


Yup, that's what the Ultraglide Classic was built for - big-arsed fairings + screen = no chaps whipping aginst legs!:niceone:

[awayatc]

Big arsed fairies..........?

[Bonez]

Big arsed fairies..........?And where's the fun in no chap whippings....?

[Tarded]

There is some pertinence in regard to original - convince the young buck he doesn't 'need' 300kph.

I think you have to have it to realise afterwards?

Thats if you live long enough in the youth plus huge power equation.
I had mine (GRUNTER BIKE) in my early 30s and it was still an issue.

At 18 - I shudder to think.

If I had it now - one day I know I would try.
So I dont and Im a happy critter rumbling around with plenty of grunt for where I ride and how I ride.

It depends why the youth is getting a bike. If power comes into it then forget Harley - too much fast competition.

If its sons of anarchy dreams the harley it is.

I know I slagged the brand but they have a lot of *&^% owners.
HOG members couldnt ride a fkn merry go round from what I saw. Truly abysmal. Youth dont want to associate with that either. Ulysses with chaps on.

[speights_bud]

Because Young people are educated by tv these days:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xGyKBFCd_u4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

On a more serious note, when i started (road) riding at 16, I knew it would be 30 years before I'd even consider a Harley. As a young rider who started road riding in the racing scene why would I want to ride a bike that was 2x more expensive than anything else available that I'd never get insurance on until after i was 25?. On top of that for my limited budget i could get a bike which would out accelerate, out turn and out brake a Harley. It just didn't appeal at all for a young rider. I've seen the Harley racing and to be honest heck yea it looks like alot of fun! I've raced an interesting range of bikes and sometimes the less suitable for the job it is the more fun you have!

But as for Harley use on the road, no thanks! I'm not ready to ride Ulysses style!

(Now off to read the rest of the thread)

[Big Dave]

'Experience is that thing you get just after you need it.' - Whoever said that.

[Big Dave]

But as for Harley use on the road, no thanks! I'm not ready to ride Ulysses style!



You're on n a SV650? You already do. :devil2:

[speights_bud]

You're on n a SV650? You already do. :devil2:

Damn your right! A 15min track session then time to stop for a piss!

[Flip]

For what its worth.......

2 up at Ruapuna on a Road king, average gear and a open face helmet.

283603283604

[Tarded]

For what its worth.......

2 up at Ruapuna on a Road king, average gear and a open face helmet.

283603283604

Lap record for a Road King in the bag then?? Positives everywhere if you look as they say :first:

[Monkfish]

As for attracting young riders, for the last 12 months they have been a major sponsor of the UFC,

"Brought to you by Harley-Davidson, the only bike tough enough to get in the octagon!" or something like that! I think that would gain them a lot of attention in younger demographics. :baby:

[Banditbandit]

And Ducati owners are better mechanics than the rest of you :killingme


Thats 'cause of all the practice they get ...

[Banditbandit]

But as for Harley use on the road, no thanks! I'm not ready to ride Ulysses style!

(Now off to read the rest of the thread)


Shit .. I know Ulysses members you wouldn't see for dust ('specially on an SV650 ...) I don't even try to chase them when they open the throttle ... I was sitting on 235 klicks on the clock on the Western Access Road from Taupo when the Ulysses rider in front of me opened the throttle on his ZX14 and disappeared like I was standing still ...

[Bald Eagle]

Shit .. I know Ulysses members you wouldn't see for dust ...when the Ulysses rider in front of me opened the throttle on his ZX14 and disappeared like I was standing still ...


I know what you mean , went on a Ully "Group Ride" a while ago, --only saw the groups tail lights at the start for the frist couple off k's then it was a solo ride.

[Big Dave]

I know a few Ulysses members. They only belong for the cheap insurance.

[carbonhed]

For what its worth.......

2 up at Ruapuna on a Road king, average gear and a open face helmet.



Carrying those kind of lean angles maybe you could add one of these handy accessories?

283673

[ducatilover]

Shit .. I know Ulysses members you wouldn't see for dust ('specially on an SV650 ...) I don't even try to chase them when they open the throttle ... I was sitting on 235 klicks on the clock on the Western Access Road from Taupo when the Ulysses rider in front of me opened the throttle on his ZX14 and disappeared like I was standing still ...

That is very irresponsible riding.

[Tarded]

Quote Originally Posted by Tarded View Post
And Ducati owners are better mechanics than the rest of you



Thats 'cause of all the practice they get ...


yeah, I think most figured that was what I meant mate

[idb]

Quote Originally Posted by Tarded View Post
And Ducati owners are better mechanics than the rest of you





yeah, I think most figured that was what I meant mate

Phew, I'm glad that was made clear at last!!

[avgas]

Carrying those kind of lean angles maybe you could add one of these handy accessories?
Oh thats cute. Does it come in normal size? Also what does the midget do when his harley fall over?

[avgas]

I know a few Ulysses members. They only belong for the cheap insurance.
Met a few fellas once who were in an old folks home for the meals once. :rolleyes:

[Big Dave]

Met a few fellas once who were in an old folks home for the meals once. :rolleyes:


I know what the meal budget is in an old folks home. You don't go there for the food.

[AllanB]

I know what the meal budget is in an old folks home. You don't go there for the food.

I hear they go there for the free loving women........

[idb]

I hear they go there for the free loving women........

That's why I go there.

[scumdog]

That's why I go there.

I KNEW it was you waving at me from the Cosy-Nook Rest home ya horny bugger!

[Big Dave]

OT but in context - I hung around old folks homes sometimes. Co-pilot was a player in the NZ aged care bit.

We actually talked about whether it would be a goer to set up a care facility specifically for old bikers at one stage. Use your imagination as to how it would be done.


What I wasn't aware of at first is that a lot of 'old folks' facilities care for the disabled as well.

I took a few of the ex-riders for a burn when I could jag a suitable vehicle.

283690


Worth doing any of you with a throne on the rear of the bike or side-chair riders.

[Banditbandit]

That is very irresponsible riding.

Bwhahahahaha .. yes ... of course ... you know what the Ulysses Motto is ...

[Banditbandit]

I hear they go there for the free loving women........


That's why I go there.



I did not need that image in my mind thank you .....

[Crasherfromwayback]

I did not need that image in my mind thank you .....

Yeah fuck that. Take you half an hour to find the right wrinkle...

[buggerit]

OT but in context - I hung around old folks homes sometimes. Co-pilot was a player in the NZ aged care bit.

We actually talked about whether it would be a goer to set up a care facility specifically for old bikers at one stage. Use your imagination as to how it would be done.


What I wasn't aware of at first is that a lot of 'old folks' facilities care for the disabled as well.

I took a few of the ex-riders for a burn when I could jag a suitable vehicle.

283690


Worth doing any of you with a throne on the rear of the bike or side-chair riders.

Hampton Downs is for sale:rockon::crazy::facepalm:

[Big Dave]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/executive-living/stripped-down-harley-davidson-makes-a-comeback/story-e6frg9zo-1226661301333


The company will unveil the first model to come from its new design process at its summer dealer meeting. Wandell wouldn't give details but said he thought it would show the company made the right decisions.

[awayatc]

Yeah fuck that. Take you half an hour to find the right wrinkle...

simple...........

work your way through the folds untill you hit shit

then just go back one..........

[granstar]

They ( Star- Yamaha) are doing what they did to the Brits ... to appeal to younger riders make a better bike, Harley need to sharpen the pencil.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7hZp12i4Kg

[Crasherfromwayback]

They ( Star- Yamaha) are doing what they did to the Brits ... to appeal to younger riders make a better bike, Harley need to sharpen the pencil.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7hZp12i4Kg

You're not serious right?

[ducatilover]

They ( Star- Yamaha) are doing what they did to the Brits ... to appeal to younger riders make a better bike, Harley need to sharpen the pencil.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7hZp12i4Kg

The Yamaha is techncally far superior.
But Harley hasn't been making technically superior bikes for a long time, it's not really what Harley owners want is it? They're like Holden/Ford buyers, neither make "good" vehicles, yet they're very popular.


And 883s are fucking rubbish anyway <_<

[Crasherfromwayback]

The Yamaha is techncally far superior.
But Harley hasn't been making technically superior bikes for a long time, it's not really what Harley owners want is it? They're like Holden/Ford buyers, neither make "good" vehicles, yet they're very popular.


And 883s are fucking rubbish anyway <_<

Now I'm gonna have to tell you you're talking shit. The Yamaha is excuse me...100cc bigger. And according to their own film clip leaves the 883 for dead? I'd fucking well hope so. It has more susp travel? Yeah...but the 833 Iron is so shorties can ride 'em. More lean angle? If you want lean angle...buy a fucking GSXR!

Next...how fucking UGLY is that Yamaha? I mean really? They've tried so hard to make it look like the very bike they're rubbishing...but they've failed badly!

And Ford/Holden make rubbish? My SS ute is twice the vehicle my XJR Jag was/is. Retail when new? I think around $150k vs $45k?

Lastly...bet I can ride an 883 round Manfeild quicker than you can ride your Kawasaki.

By being such a Harley basher...you make yourself out to be an uneducated twat.

[BIG DOUG]

The problem is most people think harleys are technically inferior,but things like there fuel injection,fly by wire,security systems etc,its the things you don't see,crack's me up when people say harley haven't changed there bike's for years they just make little changes year after year that most people don't notice.Oh and by the way my xr1200 has just clicked over 70,000 k's and in that time I have only replaced a regulator and tyres and fluids it been a very unreliable bike.(not)

[awayatc]

The Yamaha is techncally far superior.


I wish I could buy a Yamaha like that.............

Unfortunately I am blessed with good taste.....

and common sense,

isn't (trying to ...) copying the ultimate compliment...?

[scumdog]

They ( Star- Yamaha) are doing what they did to the Brits ... to appeal to younger riders make a better bike, Harley need to sharpen the pencil.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7hZp12i4Kg

Mwahahaha...what a 'loaded' comparison....:yes:

The Yamy looks OK and probably goes OK but it's still too much of a Harley-Davidson imitator.

My main bitch about its appearance (and a slew of similar bikes) is the butt-ugly seam that runs along the lower edge of the gas-tank, breaks the lines too much and looks 'cheap'.

[Crasherfromwayback]

My main bitch about its appearance (and a slew of similar bikes) is the butt-ugly seam that runs along the lower edge of the gas-tank, breaks the lines too much and looks 'cheap'.

Correct. That...and the exhaust system that looks like it was knicked from a Keeyway Super shadow. And that that tail light? lololololol.

[Smifffy]

A lot of people, including dyed in the wool HD nuts, first mistake my jappa for a Harley. Not that I've de-badged it or anything. If I had another $10k in my kick when I bought it, I most likely would have got a fat boy instead. Always wanted one, ever since Arnold rode one in T2. Many of my riding mates have Harleys and rib me a bit, but I figured that mine still gets me out on the road doing my thing, and to me that's what it's all about. With the dollar the way it is now, I could probably get a good XR1200X for not much more than I paid for the boulevard. May well have been too big a step after not riding for a long time though.

I don't watch the show, but seeing all of the young uns around wearing Sons of Anarchy hoodies and shit, I would have thought that would have raised the level of interest among the younger crowd?

[scumdog]

I don't watch the show, but seeing all of the young uns around wearing Sons of Anarchy hoodies and shit, I would have thought that would have raised the level of interest among the younger crowd?


They seem to be mainly the broken-arsed ones that can barely afford the T-shirt let alone a motorbike...they might have a raised interest but that's as far as most will get..they're off for more K2 and another go at PS2..

[ducatilover]

YOu seem to have overlooked my word in the first sentence, technically.
Now I'm gonna have to tell you you're talking shit. The Yamaha is excuse me...100cc bigger. And according to their own film clip leaves the 883 for dead? I'd fucking well hope so. It has more susp travel? Yeah...but the 833 Iron is so shorties can ride 'em. More lean angle? If you want lean angle...buy a fucking GSXR! I think they're appealing to a certain audience, the Yamaha (as I said) is the technically superior bike. I don't think it's "nicer" though, not with the Chinese looking remote reservoir shocks and the heinous exhaust. At least Harley can make a proper looking cruiser.
Neither of them is about power, really, but it's nice that the Yamaha supposedly has more, because the 883s are rather short of breath out the box and I'm sure you'll agree.
Suspension travel is very important though and that's a very handy feature to have and the Yamaha has a lower seat than the 883 superlow, only by 5mm though.
Not so sure if the clearance is an issue for the 883/bolt buyer? They'll get along at an okay pace through the twisties in standard form, but I have to agree with you.


Next...how fucking UGLY is that Yamaha? I mean really? They've tried so hard to make it look like the very bike they're rubbishing...but they've failed badly! I don't like the Yamaha. I may be a Hardley basher but I'd rather have to look at the 883 every day


And Ford/Holden make rubbish? My SS ute is twice the vehicle my XJR Jag was/is. Retail when new? I think around $150k vs $45k? They don't make very sophisticated vehicles, hence the prices on them. Never said I dislike them


Lastly...bet I can ride an 883 round Manfeild quicker than you can ride your Kawasaki. I hope so, I'm a shit rider. :bleh:


By being such a Harley basher...you make yourself out to be an uneducated twat.
883s are rubbish though and I'm going to stand by that, because even on KB I'm allowed an opinion, just like the Harley lovers (not Honda lovers, they're fucked)

[Big Dave]

The problem is most people think harleys are technically inferior,but things like there fuel injection,fly by wire,security systems etc,its the things you don't see,crack's me up when people say harley haven't changed there bike's for years they just make little changes year after year that most people don't notice.

Yea - at least it gives me something to write about.

[Big Dave]

You are even entitled to an incorrect opinion.

Now fuck off.

[ducatilover]

You are even entitled to an incorrect opinion.

Now fuck off.

I stay here to annoy people, it satisfies my inferiority complex and stops me from continuing to build shit bikes :2thumbsup

[Big Dave]

OT - My commentary is coming more under the influence of Charlie Brooker every episode.

Not work safe.

http://youtu.be/9FdHGfsVoqw

[Crasherfromwayback]

YOu seem to have overlooked my word in the first sentence, technically. I think they're appealing to a certain audience, the Yamaha (as I said) is the technically superior bike.



883s are rubbish though and I'm going to stand by that, because even on KB I'm allowed an opinion, just like the Harley lovers (not Honda lovers, they're fucked)

Superior how? The fuel injection systems used? How good is the Yamaha's alarm system compared to the 883's? Does it even have one?

I think you actually lust after an 883! And if you ask nicely...we'll 1200 kit it and it'd suck the mirrors off the Yamaha! :bleh:

[ducatilover]

Superior how? The fuel injection systems used? How good is the Yamaha's alarm system compared to the 883's? Does it even have one? The Yamaha has an adjustable gear lever :girlfight:
I don't think the Blot has an alarm. No cunt would steal it anyway, it's fugly


I think you actually lust after an 883! And if you ask nicely...we'll 1200 kit it and it'd suck the mirrors off the Yamaha! :bleh:

If I ask nicely will you make it look like an XR1200? Or just paint it orange :yes:



I think Yamaha are full of shit on this, the features list says it has a stylish exhaust.

[AllanB]

I don;t really give a shit what you ride, good that you do.

BUT it does annoy me that the Japanese do a carbon copy of the HD's. Yeah they 'define' cruiserdom but there is or at least should be room for a bit of variation if one uses their imagination. Shit the drag bike scene is huge in the USA u would think a low slung kick arse drag styled GSXR engine based cruiser who pop a bit wood in the market.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I don;t really give a shit what you ride, good that you do.

BUT it does annoy me that the Japanese do a carbon copy of the HD's. Yeah they 'define' cruiserdom but there is or at least should be room for a bit of variation if one uses their imagination. Shit the drag bike scene is huge in the USA u would think a low slung kick arse drag styled GSXR engine based cruiser who pop a bit wood in the market.

Agree with you 100%. Yamaha went brave and hit the nail on the head with the original V-Max I reckon!

[Voltaire]

[QUOTE]Lastly...bet I can ride an 883 round Manfeild quicker than you can ride your Kawasaki.

Just out of interest does the 883 make as much power as a mid 70's 1000? as I can on a good day get past one on my BMW R90/6 around Manfield ;) , not so much the mid 60's 900 Sportster though.....:weep:

[AllanB]

[QUOTE=Crasherfromwayback;1130561320]



Just out of interest does the 883 make as much power as a mid 70's 1000? as I can on a good day get past one on my BMW R90/6 around Manfield ;) , not so much the mid 60's 900 Sportster though.....:weep:

76 Z900 Kawa (want........)

Engine: 903 cc air-cooled 4-cylinder,[1] 82 bhp @ 8,500 rpm [4]
Bore x Stroke: 66 mm x 66 mm
Weight (wet): 246 kg (542 lbs)
Production: 85,000 (est.) between 1973-75[1]
Transmission: 5-speed, chain final drive
Carburetion: 28 mm Mikuni
Tires: 19-inch front, 18-inch back
Brakes: 11.5-inch disc front, 7.9-inch drum rear[3]
Top Speed: 130 mph[4]


2012 883 HD

Fucking hard finding engine specs on any HD!!!!
Colour yes!

It weighs the same as the above Kawa
Engine Torque- 55 ft. lbs. @ 3500 RPM (75 Nm @ 3500 RPM)
HP is a mystery but I recal it is no higher than a new bonnie so 60 ish or below.



Chalk and cheese engines though, you cannot really compare the two. Bonnie and Sporty yes or Guzzi 750.

[granstar]

Loaded well and truly Scummy:nya:. Yammy not as nice as the Harley, being a short arse would own an 883 but really they should bring it out as a 1000. Just saying and we know the history, Japs plagarised Triumph motor plans and made the XS model heaps better than the T120 ever was ...But!.
I owned both (in the 70's) 650 Triumph and XS 650 C, the Yammy albiet reliable was a pig, sold it and bought another Trumph 650. :beer:


Your Beemer needs tuned then. R90/6 @ 67 hp, 65 sportster 60hp, 75 sportster 57 hp , 883 is 70 Nm err..HP= Torque in Newton meters x RPM go figure, i was asleep in maths class dreaming about bikes :not:
Re- loads...then depends on who is riding the bike.

[AllanB]

Knew I had read a comparison. Heres online version. As they say, forget the specs go for the fun!

If they were all $8k in NZ I bet a shit load of these bikes would be owned by riders of all ages. So maybe that is the OP answer - a $8k Sporty.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/comparisons/122_1302_harley_davidson_sportster_883_iron_vs_mot o_guzzi_v7_stone_vs_triumph_bonneville/viewall.html

[Voltaire]

Your Beemer needs tuned then. R90/6 @ 67 hp, 65 sportster 60hp, 75 sportster 57 hp , 883 is 70 Nm err..HP= Torque in Newton meters x RPM go figure no good at maths :not:

I don't believe any of the figures they quoted back in the day, The R90 probably has about 50 BHP, about the same as a modern Thruxton.

[Motu]

The Sportster was made to compete with the British 650's of the era, and back to back they are on a par - just depends on your personal preference for vibration periods and location of oil leaks. As I'm still happy riding 650 2 valve twins, a 2 valve 883 is a good ride for me. The 1000 was made to keep up with the 750's when they became the big new capacity - so you can put a 1000cc Sportster against the Trident, Commando or CB750 of the Day. This is for the American market remember, so doesn't take in handling or stopping. Having ridden a worked 1000cc Sportster with drag bars, I can confirm that it scared me more shitless than the other 3.

[ducatilover]

2012 883 HD

Fucking hard finding engine specs on any HD!!!!
Colour yes!
.

45hp at the wheel plus or minus a couple for a late injected 883. So I expect 60-65 at the crank? Dunno a lot about how much the lose through the drivetrain though.
A little under 50 lb/ft at the tread too (just over 60nm in the new moneys)
Which is expected in an engine of the size doing under 6krpm
Should be around the same hp as one of my shitheaps and just a little more torque

[Big Dave]

It's called EQ these days. The ability to understand other people.

Some of you knob jockeys completely lack it.

Because a vehicle doesn't suit *your* criteria it's derided as inferior.

[Crasherfromwayback]

[
Just out of interest does the 883 make as much power as a mid 70's 1000? as I can on a good day get past one on my BMW R90/6 around Manfield ;) , not so much the mid 60's 900 Sportster though.....:weep:

All I can quote is lap times. I've done 1 min 19 flat round Manfeild on my Twinsport 883.

[Voltaire]

All I can quote is lap times. I've done 1 min 19 flat round Manfeild on my Twinsport 883.

WOW, I was looking at the lap times for last year of the CMCRR and your 3 seconds ahead faster than the Triumph Trident ( on meths), 850 Moto Guzzi and 12 seconds up on the XLCH 900. :2thumbsup, you should come classic racing.

[Monkfish]

I don't believe any of the figures they quoted back in the day, The R90 probably has about 50 BHP, about the same as a modern Thruxton.

according to my research the modern Thrux has around 68 bhp.

http://www.bentleymotorrad.com/printpdf/351

just as an FYI.

[Voltaire]

Fixed that for ya ;)

The sales blurb says 68HP not BHP

http://www.bentleymotorrad.com/printpdf/351

just as an FYI.

[swarfie]

Fixed that for ya ;)

Lot of BS talked about HP....can all depend on who's twisting the handlebar bit...That might stand for Hire Purchase:2thumbsup

[Monkfish]

Fixed that for ya ;)

ye sorry HP not BHP


Lot of BS talked about HP....can all depend on who's twisting the handlebar bit...That might stand for Hire Purchase:2thumbsup

Yes there is, but I cant find a single review that contradicts the 68 hp figure.

[Paul in NZ]

Pointless comparisons....

60's and early 70's american 'performance' was all about standing 1/4 mile times. And a good 900 XLCH could be very good at that indeed. Its arguable that a good Triumph 650 was a better allrounder but .... Frankly you needed to be a bit of a gearhead to build a 'good one' of either brand.

The success of bikes like the CB750 and Z1 was not just about pure performance but rather the arrival of 'performance' as a product that was easy to access and use. It was also the beginning of an era dominated by new type of rider.

Seminal bikes are often ones that arrive at a time when the market changes and they meet the needs of the refreshed market. Like now for instance - sports bikes are last weeks new - ADV bikes are in...

Its arguable that while HD have never much been affected by these trends as they have usually had a distinct fan base. However times are tough and you can't help but wonder if any maker is wise to have just a premium brand in its portfolio. While they can attract some new riders with models like the 48 etc they will never pick up any sales in the new trends segments.

In my opinion the bike HD really missed the boat on when retiring Buell was the Uylsses... Updated and tweaked they would be selling well at the moment.

[Monkfish]

Pointless comparisons....

Its arguable that while HD have never much been affected by these trends as they have usually had a distinct fan base. However times are tough and you can't help but wonder if any maker is wise to have just a premium brand in its portfolio. While they can attract some new riders with models like the 48 etc they will never pick up any sales in the new trends segments.

In my opinion the bike HD really missed the boat on when retiring Buell was the Uylsses... Updated and tweaked they would be selling well at the moment.

Agreed.

however here is a good, pointless comparison, on some of the bikes mentioned in this thread.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/10/16203/Motorcycle-Article/13-Sportster-883-Iron-vs-Star-Bolt-vs-Bonneville.aspx

Bit long, but good reading for conversations sake.

As mentioned else where in this thread Harley's answer to attracting younger riders is the 883 sporty.

[ducatilover]

All I can quote is lap times. I've done 1 min 19 flat round Manfeild on my Twinsport 883.

Could you set a lap on my slow old tank for me one day? :sweatdrop I doubt I could get it around that fast

[AllanB]

I had shit loads of fun on a Honda 50 step-through when I was 16.

[Voltaire]

hmm 10kNZ for a Bonnie/883 vs 15kNZ here..... postage must be a killer.

[Big Dave]

step-through

REAL kids rode CLs

[idb]

REAL kids rode CLs

Or RVs
.......

[Smifffy]

Maybe something like this?

http://www.bikeexif.com/dual-sport-motorcycle?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Bikeexif+%28Bike+EXIF%29

[scumdog]

Maybe something like this?

http://www.bikeexif.com/dual-sport-motorcycle?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Bikeexif+%28Bike+EXIF%29

Ripper!:niceone:

[avgas]

In my opinion the bike HD really missed the boat on when retiring Buell was the Uylsses... Updated and tweaked they would be selling well at the moment.
In a market full of Yamaha's, Triumphs and BMW's.............if they were lucky at best the Buell Uylsses could do is catch the Aprilla breadcrumbs.
Unless by update you mean take $5000 off the price tag.

What they should have done is not sold a bike at all but parts. There were truckloads of custom designers out there wanting either performance V-Twins or the blast motors. Now they have moved to other manufacturers.

Eric saying he wasn't going to make the Blast (.....in public.......by crushing one into a cube and saying it was the worst motorcycle in the world) was the equivalent to Colgate saying they aren't going to sell toothpaste.
It may not be exciting. But never shoot the cash cow.

At least 4 manufacturers have tries to buy the dies to the blast engine. HD won't sell them or make them. Even told Mac's to fuck off elsewhere.

HD are not interested in getting new riders. They would build a mobility scooter before they build a small nimble bike.

[Ocean1]

In a market full of Yamaha's, Triumphs and BMW's.............if they were lucky at best the Buell Uylsses could do is catch the Aprilla breadcrumbs.
Unless by update you mean take $5000 off the price tag.

Pretty sure the last real-season price for a Uly was well more than $5k less than the closest model Ape's.

And none of them are very close.

And none of them are well supported.