Slippery roads

[haydes55]

I've always been fairly confident in the rain. But in the last few weeks I've been through a couple of roads that even my lil bike spun up the rear wheel.

It's that shiny tar! The first instance was at a T intersection, the back wheel was locking up under downshifting/braking (very slow braking without even touching the front brake). When I took off slowly the back wheel suddenly broke traction and I entered the road sideway. Fun and scarey all in one.

The second instance was this arvo coming from Bombay up the hill towards Pukekohe, I was overtaking a few cars before the yellow lines, as I turned back into my lane the rear wheel skidded out to the right then in my lane it skidded out to the left. Heart racing!

I'm thinking my rear tire hasn't got as much wet grip as my old one <_<

[boman]

I've always been fairly confident in the rain. But in the last few weeks I've been through a couple of roads that even my lil bike spun up the rear wheel.

It's that shiny tar! The first instance was at a T intersection, the back wheel was locking up under downshifting/braking (very slow braking without even touching the front brake). When I took off slowly the back wheel suddenly broke traction and I entered the road sideway. Fun and scarey all in one.

The second instance was this arvo coming from Bombay up the hill towards Pukekohe, I was overtaking a few cars before the yellow lines, as I turned back into my lane the rear wheel skidded out to the right then in my lane it skidded out to the left. Heart racing!

I'm thinking my rear tire hasn't got as much wet grip as my old one <_<

FWIW, I think the long hot summer, has fucked the road surface. There are plenty of places around Franklin, which are very, very slippery now.
I jumped on the ABS brakes in my Ute. Doing 100kph as a test , a few days ago, and got a skid on the shiny stuff. Even the ABS couldn't help.

It is slowly becoming a danger riding in the wet. Until the Mighty super city :tugger: decides to reseal some roads. Which is unlikely, as the fun roads, are the back roads.

[Rhys]

Is you new tyre duel compound?

I agree that the road surfaces are not the best, but the reality is that it's not going to improve any time soon

So ride to your ability and the conditions :nono:

[haydes55]

Na single compound, if it was a dual compound it would of been the issue, because both times would of occurred on the harder central compound.

Yea blardy gubermint!!!! :blank:

Shiny side up, even on the shiny stuff!

[swbarnett]

The second instance was this arvo coming from Bombay up the hill towards Pukekohe, I was overtaking a few cars before the yellow lines, as I turned back into my lane the rear wheel skidded out to the right then in my lane it skidded out to the left. Heart racing!
I travel that stretch of road daily. Last week I had exactly the same thing happen in exactly the same spot. I had just wound open the throttle at the time. Instinctual closing of the throttle got the rear to re-grip and all was back tonormal. The funny thing is that it didn't worry me at all. I've had the back skip out enough times over the last few decades (tyres in the '80s didn't have the grip they do today) that I'm kind of used to it.


I'm thinking my rear tire hasn't got as much wet grip as my old one <_<
I'm with boman. I think the major factor is that we're now getting a lot of rain after a long dry spell. All the oils that accumulate in the dry roads are coming to the surface.

[Maha]

I'm with boman. I think the major factor is that we're now getting a lot of rain after a long dry spell. All the oils that accumulate in the dry roads are coming to the surface.

Absolutely correct.....long sunny dry followed by sudden wet=OMG!
Add the seasonal pine needle fall into the scenario and things can go tits up real quick.

[Brayden]

Bro that black tar is slippery as fuck I had a low speed low side under slow light braking just as you mentioned. It wasn't even raining just a litle bit of morning dew on a Sunny morning was enough to make it lethal.. Watch that black tar aye

[duckonin]

You have identified the problem, 'black tar' = slip. So now you can handle it. Take care in the rain or for that matter anytime.

[Tigadee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv8cVOkfvTI

[GazzaH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv8cVOkfvTI

Useful vid that, thanks for the link.

Now to find out how to ride safely down a wet gravel track covered in pine cones, pine needles, pine branches and worn out tree fellers ...

[BMWST?]

Useful vid that, thanks for the link.

Now to find out how to ride safely down a wet gravel track covered in pine cones, pine needles, pine branches and worn out tree fellers ...
as above but with even more gradual inputs

[mossy1200]

Na single compound, if it was a dual compound it would of been the issue, because both times would of occurred on the harder central compound.



Isnt it the centre is about the same and the outer is softer but everything would be brand and model dependent.

High silica and plenty of well designed groves is the key but you trade one quality to get another.
You want to try pushing some super corsa sp tyres in the wet.

[russd7]

been happening for years, i remember back in about 01 on a trip up north and riding the desert road in torrential rain and having the rear wheel spin up just cruising, then a couple of year ago while passing a truck in rain and lighting the rear up half way past, few other times on lesser scales but it happens

[madbikeboy]

Lane position also helps with this.

If you're following the tyre track of the cars (either left or right track depending on the traffic around you and escape room / need to project presence), then there will likely be less oil and diesel. Obviously, the centre of the lane, right under the centre of vehicles, will accumulate more diesel and petrol. As soon as it rains for the first time in a few days or even weeks (not likely in Auckland I guess), then that slippery stuff will rise to the surface.

What difference does it make in the real world? Well, on my GSXR, I can crack open the throttle just a little going up the Auckland Hubba bridge and in the centre of the lane, it'll just wheel spin for as long as I want. In either lane, not as much.

Clearly, tar snakes, metal grates, man hole covers etc are to be avoided - or crossed with near zero lean or turn angle.

Now, to put this in perspective. If I poured 10 litres of diesel on a polished concrete floor, you wouldn't be able to walk across it. Even a litre of petrol and a bunch of water is still slippery as all hell. You can often smell spilled diesel before you hit it. And you can almost always see the rainbow on the street. Treat it like dealing with a PMS infected mad cow - no sudden moves, and exit gently before you get hurt.

PS - sorry if this is sounding like I'm telling experienced riders to suck eggs. This is aimed instead at the noobs who will read this long after we've forgotten.
PPS - learn to ride a MX bike, get comfortable with the back of the bike moving around. Sliding is fun. Drifting in cars is for assholes who can't ride.

[jasonu]

I'm thinking my rear tire hasn't got as much wet grip as my old one <_<

I'm thinking you're twisting the go grip a bit too much for the conditions.

[haydes55]

I'm thinking you're twisting the go grip a bit too much for the conditions.
On a single cylinder 300 going 100km/h that's about 40km/h off top speed on a good day. I wasn't accelerating just maintaining speed.

Anyway, skids are always cool.

[jasonu]

.

Anyway, skids are always cool.

Tru dat sista!!!

[pritch]

I've looked but can't see what the tyre is. That is a key piece of information. The shiny tar patches are slippery, that's not rocket science, but some tyres handle it better than others.

[granstar]

Slippery when wet signs point to caution and the fact that they are never going to fix the problem.

Someone mentioned things to watch for, but failed to mention " Anything painted on the road", that'll tip ya off. Avoid painted surfaces. Oh yeah .... and cyclists in lycra, ... very slippery stuff.

Pilot road 4's very popular down South, tar through the surface is very common and can be like ice in the wet, not so easy to avoid when it';s right across the road, caused by heavy vehicles on poorly sealed roads = tank slappers even at low speeds. Good idea to think about control of a slide, 9 times out of 10, the bike will correct itself if you allow it to i.e don't panic Mr Manering. If you close the throttle too quickly, you run the risk of the rear tire regaining traction too quickly. If you counter-steer too much, you risk over-correction. Like riding on gravel, relax the grip, the bike’s trail will actually cause it to naturally steer into a slide for you, really you do nothing. Don't touch the brakes, best left for when the bike is upright, and then in the wet braking gently.My old Triumph has pathetic brakes (albeit the same Lockheed ones fitted to airplanes) in the wet and I mostly use motor braking.
If you’re hanging off the bike, allow it to move around freely underneath you while you hold your body relatively still. This helps the bike “find” the right direction to go in. A good place to learn this throttle control is in a paddock on a trail bike. Or if ya got balls on a speedway bike LOL.

Like cornering just look where you want to go (if you have time), focus on where you want to be and your subtle body movements in response will help the bike find its way there and reduce the skid effect in your cleanest of undies.

[swbarnett]

Pilot road 4's very popular down South, tar through the surface is very common and can be like ice in the wet, not so easy to avoid when it's right across the road
This is exactly why I decided to try the PR4s; one fishtail too many right before a corner that put me squarely on the wrong side of the road. I've done the same corner in the same conditions many times since and the PR4s simply won't let go. On to my second front and third rear now and won't wear anything else (on the wheels, get your minds out of the gutter). Not only do they grip very well they also last like nothing I've used before - near 30k out of the front and around 15k on the rear.

[madbikeboy]

This is exactly why I decided to try the PR4s; one fishtail too many right before a corner that put me squarely on the wrong side of the road. I've done the same corner in the same conditions many times since and the PR4s simply won't let go. On to my second front and third rear now and won't wear anything else (on the wheels, get your minds out of the gutter). Not only do they grip very well they also last like nothing I've used before - near 30k out of the front and around 15k on the rear.

15. Thousand. Kilometers. I am tipping my hat. I just got a lifetime record of 2800 kilometres out of a pair of Pirelli Gumboots. I mean, Pirelli GT Angels. However, most of that was in the South Island and they have many long straight bits. Just put running shoes back on the bike, went for a gentle ride today to scrub the release agent from the tire, and the bike is already feeling much happier to turn (Pirelli Super Corsas). Like my women, I like tyres that are here for a good time, and not a long time.

[madbikeboy]

Slippery when wet signs point to caution and the fact that they are never going to fix the problem.

Someone mentioned things to watch for, but failed to mention " Anything painted on the road", that'll tip ya off. Avoid painted surfaces. Oh yeah .... and cyclists in lycra, ... very slippery stuff.

Good idea to think about control of a slide, 9 times out of 10, the bike will correct itself if you allow it to i.e don't panic Mr Manering. If you close the throttle too quickly, you run the risk of the rear tire regaining traction too quickly. If you counter-steer too much, you risk over-correction. Like riding on gravel, relax the grip, the bike’s trail will actually cause it to naturally steer into a slide for you, really you do nothing.

Be kind to cyclists, one less cage on the road and all that.

Agree with most of the above hastily edited from the post above. CSS calls it the survival reaction, when the bike slides you automatically shut the throttle. But, as per above, this ends badly. Like when you ask your misses for a threesome with her BFF and she reacts badly - an ambulance ride is in your near future. With more power, you can have fun with slides - but your job on a little bike is to learn to not transfer weight suddenly at the wrong time. You can brake deep in a corner (trail braking), but this is a Jedi skill that takes time to master. You can slide the bike by using power or weight, but again it's a Jedi skill that takes time to master.

Recommend you find some good mentors in your area and get some advice. Smooth is good. Experience is good. Ambulance rides are bad. Drugs are bad, mmmkay.

[GrayWolf]

I travel that stretch of road daily. Last week I had exactly the same thing happen in exactly the same spot. I had just wound open the throttle at the time. Instinctual closing of the throttle got the rear to re-grip and all was back tonormal. The funny thing is that it didn't worry me at all. I've had the back skip out enough times over the last few decades (tyres in the '80s didn't have the grip they do today) that I'm kind of used to it..


oh yeh...... wonder how some of the 'wannaberossi's' on there sprotty's would get on with a pair of TT100's or 'speedmasters' on the bike :killingme:killingme:killingme

[swbarnett]

15. Thousand. Kilometers. I am tipping my hat. I just got a lifetime record of 2800 kilometres out of a pair of Pirelli Gumboots. I mean, Pirelli GT Angels. However, most of that was in the South Island and they have many long straight bits. Just put running shoes back on the bike, went for a gentle ride today to scrub the release agent from the tire, and the bike is already feeling much happier to turn (Pirelli Super Corsas). Like my women, I like tyres that are here for a good time, and not a long time.
My bike is my primary transport. A fair number of those 15k were Auckland's motorway.

I'm not a Rossi wannabe by any means so I'm happy with a slightly less sporty tyre that I don't have to change every 5 weeks.

[pritch]

15. Thousand. Kilometers. I am tipping my hat. I just got a lifetime record of 2800 kilometres out of a pair of Pirelli Gumboots. I mean, Pirelli GT Angels.

Fifteen is good I don't think I've had that from a sport touring tyre. If I get 12 or 13 I'm happy, and I got that from my Pirelli Angels although I never tried the GTs because I didn't have a "heavy" bike.

Is the OP ever going to tell us what his new tyre is?

[swbarnett]

Fifteen is good I don't think I've had that from a sport touring tyre. If I get 12 or 13 I'm happy,
I got 16,494km from my first rear, 15,756 from the second (must've been a bit more aggressive on that one). Just passing 11k on the third with plenty of tread left.

I used to get around 10 or 11 out of anything previous on this bike (12 or 13 if I forgot about it and ran it past legal).

[Moise]

So many of our main roads are in a dangerous condition because they chip seal has worn out. But this is never stated to be a factor in accidents, although a coroner did include it as a cause of a Dome Valley fatality.

Like many cost saving measures, I expect that the cost of the resulting serious accidents outweighs the savings. But as it's almost never recognised as a factor in accidents, so how do we know?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[madbikeboy]

Fifteen is good I don't think I've had that from a sport touring tyre. If I get 12 or 13 I'm happy, and I got that from my Pirelli Angels although I never tried the GTs because I didn't have a "heavy" bike.

Is the OP ever going to tell us what his new tyre is?

So, the Pirelli Super Corsa is amazing for grip, and it's wicked on the edge of adhesion. But, long life, not so much. I did a Coro loop this week (ended up in Whangamata for the Hop on Friday). The ride there was pretty good. The ride home was all about tyre conservation. Bye SC, I'll miss you so. Two tanks of gas, 94 gas station meat pies, one Whangamata Pizza, one back tyre, zero speeding tickets. Priceless.

What an amazing difference between the Angels and the SC's though - the Angels are very dead feeling, the bike is slow to steer. With the larger 200 and sticky rubber, the Hayabusa feels more like a obese GSXR1000 (albeit one with less rev's, the rev limit is like 75,000 RPM less than a thou, bloody annoying).

[SVboy]

Interesting. I love the angel GTs on my Busa. Probably you are right about a lack of feeling when pushed. Certainly a different feeling bike to my GSXR 600 on S21s. I have spent a fair bit on my Busa,s suspension, which helps control, but in the end, you can't hide from the size and weight of the old girl.

[madbikeboy]

Interesting. I love the angel GTs on my Busa. Probably you are right about a lack of feeling when pushed. Certainly a different feeling bike to my GSXR 600 on S21s. I have spent a fair bit on my Busa,s suspension, which helps control, but in the end, you can't hide from the size and weight of the old girl.

What upgrades have you done to the suspension? I recently yanked the forks and serviced them, dropped the oil weight a step. Made a positive difference. Was considering an Ohlins upgrade for the rear...

The exhaust is 20 odd kg's alone. The tail section is near enough to 45 kgs. I've ridden a couple of modded second gen's with thou tails, and it makes a difference. Hard to gauge how much difference because both were modded with turbo kits.

[SVboy]

What upgrades have you done to the suspension? I recently yanked the forks and serviced them, dropped the oil weight a step. Made a positive difference. Was considering an Ohlins upgrade for the rear...

The exhaust is 20 odd kg's alone. The tail section is near enough to 45 kgs. I've ridden a couple of modded second gen's with thou tails, and it makes a difference. Hard to gauge how much difference because both were modded with turbo kits.

I put a Nitron N2 in the rear and KSS revalved the front and put Racetech pistons and springs in the front. Big dollars but a huge difference. Very average suspension as standard IMHO.

[Moise]

Maybe, except adventure tyres don't usually grip as well as sports tyres.

Sent from somewhere using Tapatalk

[MENTAL490]

I've always been fairly confident in the rain. But in the last few weeks I've been through a couple of roads that even my lil bike spun up the rear wheel.

It's that shiny tar! The first instance was at a T intersection, the back wheel was locking up under downshifting/braking (very slow braking without even touching the front brake). When I took off slowly the back wheel suddenly broke traction and I entered the road sideway. Fun and scarey all in one.

The second instance was this arvo coming from Bombay up the hill towards Pukekohe, I was overtaking a few cars before the yellow lines, as I turned back into my lane the rear wheel skidded out to the right then in my lane it skidded out to the left. Heart racing!

I'm thinking my rear tire hasn't got as much wet grip as my old one <_<

The only time i ever droped a road bike, was my rsvr, it was in aussie north qld and it was the first rain of the wet season, i had all good tyres, was going so slow round the round about i was almost going backward and still it pancaked on me, i was soo pissed off it scratched the hell out of my fairings.<_<