helen clarks motorcade verdict

[WINJA]

WHAT A FUCKEN CROCK ALL DRIVERS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISQUALIFIED LIKE ANY OF US WOULD HAVE BEEN, THEY SPED THEY KNOW THE CONSEQUENCES BETTER THAN ANY ONE , I HAVE MORAL AND LEGAL ISSUES IN MY JOB EVERY WEEK AND I ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING , THESE PIGS SHOULDA ASKED THE QUESTIONS B4 BLATANTLY SPEEDING AT REAL DANGEROUS SPEEDS , ONE OF THE PIGS SAID IT WAS NEVER DANGEROUS , WELL IF ITS NOT DANGEROUS WHY CANT WE ALL SPEED WITH IMPUNITY . AT 160 KMH YOUD LOSE YOUR LICENCE ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD FOR 28 DAYS , THEN GO TO COURT GET ABOUT $1000 IN FINES AND LOSE IT FOR ANOTHER 6 MONTHS TO A YEAR , THESE GUYS NEED TO BE RETRIED .
DOES THIS CASE SET A PRESIDENCE FOR UP COMING CASES ? I HOPE SO.
AS FOR HELEN THAT FUCKEN WHORE COLLECTING TAXES VIA THE POLICE THEN SITTING IN A CAR GOING THAT FAST, IF SHE SO IGNORANT AS TO SAY SHES UNAWARE OF THE SPEED SHE DOES NOT DESERVE THE PRIVILAGE OF RUNNING THIS COUNTRY

[placidfemme]

THE QUESTIONS B4 BLATANTLY SPEEDING AT REAL DANGEROUS SPEEDS , ONE OF THE PIGS SAID IT WAS NEVER DANGEROUS , WELL IF ITS NOT DANGEROUS WHY CANT WE ALL SPEED WITH IMPUNITY . AT 160 KMH YOUD LOSE YOUR LICENCE ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD FOR 28 DAYS , THEN GO TO COURT GET ABOUT $1000 IN FINES AND LOSE IT FOR ANOTHER 6 MONTHS TO A YEAR

hell yeah! Thats right, if it's good for them then it should be good for us too (not that I've even been to 160kph yet but still...)

[Suney]

**** THAT B****

[Two Smoker]

Im hoping to use this case in my court case...

[WINJA]

Im hoping to use this case in my court case...
CAN I TESTIFY AS AN EXPERT WITTNESS ?
REALLY YOU HAVE A GOOD CASE , IF 5 CARS DOING 160KMH WITH A COMBINED WEIGHT OF 7 TONS ,AND AVERAGE DRIVERS ,IN CARS WITH LOW PERFORMANCE
BRAKES ISNT DANGEROUS THEN A GUY ON A 170 KG BIKE WITH HIGH PERFORMANCE BRAKES AND ABOVE AVERAGE SKILL ( I HEARD YOU CAN RIDE OK)
IS DEFINATLY NOT DANGEROUS

[enigma51]

Helen should be walking as well

[Two Smoker]

CAN I TESTIFY AS AN EXPERT WITTNESS ?

Possibly... You can be my character witness... and tell them how sensible i am at riding :yes:

[Sensei]

Double standards comes to mind !! :oi-grr: Lets hope we all get off our next Speeding ticket ? I don't think so :no:

[parsley]

Double standards comes to mind !! :oi-grr: Lets hope we all get off our next Speeding ticket ? I don't think so :no:
Don't be ridiculous - you can't just let everyone off their next speeding ticket.

It only counts if you're speeding to get to the rugby. :oi-grr:

[crashe]

How many of you watched "Close up at 7" tonight?

They just did a test with ordinary people on a CLOSED road.
They were told to read something and not look up until they were told to calculate what speed they were going at.

All of them got it wrong.... the km ranged from 110 to 140km

They were going at 128.5km per hour.
(this is the estimated ongoing speed that they said that Helens car was going at)

They had a car racing driver driving a car the same as what Helen was in.

Some said they just took a wild guess and others said that it was really hard to figure it out.

[Lou Girardin]

No Winja, you're far from an expert witness. What's your qualifications apart from riding fast?
The verdict was fair, especially in view of the fact that the person responsible wasn't in the dock.
But I'm rapidly going off TV3. They tried to average 128 km/h around Puke and equated that with averaging that speed on straight Canterbury roads.
Brain dead media beat-up bullshit!
Then there was the senior cop they interviewed, gutless P.O.S. Too scared for his job to say that this would be the end of law breaking for pollies convienience.

[WINJA]

Then there was the senior cop they interviewed, gutless P.O.S. Too scared for his job to say that this would be the end of law breaking for pollies convienience.
ITS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL PIG TO SAY "IM NOT SPEEDING UNLESS ITS AN EMERGENCY"
IF THE POLICE TRULY BELIVE IT IS DANGEROUS TO SPEED THEN THE REASON FOR THEM TO SPEED HAS TO OUT WEIGH THE DANGER TO THE PUBLIC , SPEEDING TO CATCHING AN AXE MURDERER YES , AMBO SPEEDING TO A SCENE HELL YES , FIRE MEN SPEEDING GREAT , LATE FOR RUGBY NO , PRINCE CHARLES
MOTORCADE FUCK NO. HOW CAN POLLYS SAY ITS OK TO DISH OUT TICKETS FOR 7 KMH OVER YET ITS OK FOR OTHER FUCKERS TO SPEED WITH IMPUNITY.
THOSE PIGS SHOULDA SPENT THE WEEKEND IN THE CELLS AND BE DEALT TO VERY SEVERLY CAUSE THEY SHOULDA KNOWN BETTER

[WINJA]

No Winja, you're far from an expert witness. What's your qualifications apart from riding fast?.
IF THEY CAN SLAP A BADGE ON A 20 YEAR OLD 5 FT 4 INCH CHICK GIVE HER A RADAR LET HER LOSE IN A FASTISH CAR AND CALL HER AN EXPERT , THEN IM DEFINATLY AN EXPERT

[Matt Bleck]

Right on winja, it is a crock.

Whats this I hear about them getting up to speeds of 170km.

How can you (Helen) not know your in a speeding car when its doing 170km?

I know, she was researching the so called "buzz" that boy racers get whilst speeding!!

[Pixie]

ITS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL PIG TO SAY "IM NOT SPEEDING UNLESS ITS AN EMERGENCY"
IF THE POLICE TRULY BELIVE IT IS DANGEROUS TO SPEED THEN THE REASON FOR THEM TO SPEED HAS TO OUT WEIGH THE DANGER TO THE PUBLIC , SPEEDING TO CATCHING AN AXE MURDERER YES , AMBO SPEEDING TO A SCENE HELL YES , FIRE MEN SPEEDING GREAT , LATE FOR RUGBY NO , PRINCE CHARLES
MOTORCADE FUCK NO. HOW CAN POLLYS SAY ITS OK TO DISH OUT TICKETS FOR 7 KMH OVER YET ITS OK FOR OTHER FUCKERS TO SPEED WITH IMPUNITY.
THOSE PIGS SHOULDA SPENT THE WEEKEND IN THE CELLS AND BE DEALT TO VERY SEVERLY CAUSE THEY SHOULDA KNOWN BETTER
I vas chust followink orders!

[Pixie]

Right on winja, it is a crock.

Whats this I hear about them getting up to speeds of 170km.

How can you (Helen) not know your in a speeding car when its doing 170km?

I know, she was researching the so called "buzz" that boy racers get whilst speeding!!
One cop said he saw her in the rear view mirror,looking ahead eagerly and smiling.(or more likely,with her head out of the window and her tongue flapping in the slipstream,drool blowing down the side of the car)

They mere fact that he saw that horror in the mirror at that speed was dangerous enough.

[idb]

I vas chust followink orders!
Wasn't that the favourite defence at the Nuremberg trials?

[idb]

Look...just bend over and take it like the rest of us.
We continually demand that the People In Authority apply their discretion.
Well...discretion has been applied here so there should be no cause to WINJ.

All right, if you want a conspiracy theory, it's another clever election gazump by the gummint.
National have pledged to get cops away from penalising law-abiding speeding innocent folks and back to real police work.
Labour have simply topped it by having the PM and the cops demonstrate the new freedoms we will get under their stewardship....we should all be happy........and vote Labour.

[Skyryder]

No Winja, you're far from an expert witness. What's your qualifications apart from riding fast?
The verdict was fair, especially in view of the fact that the person responsible wasn't in the dock.
But I'm rapidly going off TV3. They tried to average 128 km/h around Puke and equated that with averaging that speed on straight Canterbury roads.
Brain dead media beat-up bullshit!
Then there was the senior cop they interviewed, gutless P.O.S. Too scared for his job to say that this would be the end of law breaking for pollies convienience.

One of the basic premises of driving is what is known as Driver Responsibility. Passangers no matter what their station in life are not responsible for the speeds that they are driven at. This applies as much to all of us including Helen Clark.

I think what this has demonstrated to me at least is the cavalier attitude some police have to the public as well as the lack of guts to say no. The other thing that has pissed me off on this who paid for the defence? What's the bet you and I.

Skyryder


Skyryder

[Dafe]

I can't stand our "Government has no balls!" Aunty Helen is always first from the crimescene... Why doesn't the bitch front up for once and admit she was is the wrong. What sort of "Face of Leadership" is that??? Such Bullshit.
And how the fuck come is it that Labour has all these billboards out with photos of Aunty Helen that makes her look 30 years younger and quite attractive, like a cosmetic model etc? That must have taken one incredible photoshop package to achieve that! Take it upon face value, Helen Clark is a gutless prime minister who whimpers away everytime, she needs to stand up like a honourable PM would.

[spudchucka]

or more likely,with her head out of the window and her tongue flapping in the slipstream
Who knows about Helen but I'm pretty sure our Slipstream isn't that kind of girl!

[spudchucka]

The other thing that has pissed me off on this who paid for the defence? What's the bet you and I.
No. The defence would have been funded by the police association, which is funded by member contributions not by tax payer money.

[Lou Girardin]

BTW. Only 3 "got off". The others were convicted.
I'm no cop lover, but even the 3 convictions were wrong. Some people here don't have the vaguest idea of the result if any of those cops had said that they were going to travel at the speed limit. They could kiss their careers goodbye. I'd say that they all thought they'd be covered by their statutory defence against speeding charges.

[Pixie]

Wasn't that the favourite defence at the Nuremberg trials?
Yes, that is why it was written in a German accent :devil2:

[TLDV8]

Is it any suprise the lower ranks and civilian were the scapegoats and wore the lot..the verdict was on from the first day of the trial.

[Pixie]

One of the basic premises of driving is what is known as Driver Responsibility. Passangers no matter what their station in life are not responsible for the speeds that they are driven at. This applies as much to all of us including Helen Clark.

I think what this has demonstrated to me at least is the cavalier attitude some police have to the public as well as the lack of guts to say no. The other thing that has pissed me off on this who paid for the defence? What's the bet you and I.

Skyryder


Skyryder
I somehow think that if clark wasn't there they would be having a beer in the local pub instead of speeding

[WINJA]

BTW. Only 3 "got off". The others were convicted.
I'm no cop lover, but even the 3 convictions were wrong. Some people here don't have the vaguest idea of the result if any of those cops had said that they were going to travel at the speed limit. They could kiss their careers goodbye. I'd say that they all thought they'd be covered by their statutory defence against speeding charges.
THE POLICE HAVE TO MAKE A STAND ON A FEW THINGS , I WONT SPEED WHEN ITS NOT LIFE OR DEATH , I WONT HAND OUT TICKETS FOR TRIVIAL THINGS, I WILL ATTEND BURGLERIES AND ASAULTS, THEY HAVE THE UNITY AND THE POWER TO DO THEIR JOB BETTER, I STOPPED TAKING EXCUSES FROM ANYONE THE DAY I STOOD UP TO MY BOSS AND SAID NO WAY TO AN UNREASONABLE DEMAND I PUT MY JOB ON THE LINE AND MY FUTURE INCOME , THINGS WERENT EASY FOR ME BUT I TOUGHED IT OUT , AND I HAD NOTHING LIKE THE POLICE ASSOCIATION TO BACK ME UP , FUCK THE PIGS WHAT A FLOCK OF USELESS SHEEP.
I FEEL SORRY FOR THE FEW GOOD COPS LIKE THAT SAMOAN ONE WHO BULLIED THAT YOUNG OFFENDER IN MANUKAU AND GOT PUT THRU THE RINGER

[laRIKin]

ITS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL PIG TO SAY "IM NOT SPEEDING UNLESS ITS AN EMERGENCY"
IF THE POLICE TRULY BELIVE IT IS DANGEROUS TO SPEED THEN THE REASON FOR THEM TO SPEED HAS TO OUT WEIGH THE DANGER TO THE PUBLIC , SPEEDING TO CATCHING AN AXE MURDERER YES , AMBO SPEEDING TO A SCENE HELL YES , FIRE MEN SPEEDING GREAT , LATE FOR RUGBY NO , PRINCE CHARLES
MOTORCADE FUCK NO. HOW CAN POLLYS SAY ITS OK TO DISH OUT TICKETS FOR 7 KMH OVER YET ITS OK FOR OTHER FUCKERS TO SPEED WITH IMPUNITY.
THOSE PIGS SHOULDA SPENT THE WEEKEND IN THE CELLS AND BE DEALT TO VERY SEVERLY CAUSE THEY SHOULDA KNOWN BETTER

That's is it in a nut shell.

What I think some people have forgotten is that it is not so much about the
speeding.

IF she was rushing back because of WWIII or another major world event.
That was very important for her to get back to Wellington.
We would not be having this discussion.
We properly discussing how she could have got to that much needed
meeting destination even quicker.

But is wasn't, in fact they were about half an hour to early for the the plane
and had to wait.
So they could have slowed down at the end as they were to early.
She as PM may have even able to asked for them to hold the flight and wait for her.
They could have booked a private plane to meet them.
They could have got the plane to meet them on the way up.
On one of the private air fields that Aero Clubs have, or a farmers one for
that, or even a closed road used a field a helicopter etc.
There was more than one option.
And if I remember correctly there was a second flight from CH.CH that was
after that one, that still would have got her to Wellington, maybe a bit late.

And they may have then sped in Wellington to get to the game and drove
on the wrong side of the road.
Because of a security risk (WTF).

And top it off she signed her own note to say she is to important to go to
court.

Talk about a power trip.

Rant over and I feel vented now.

Do you think I will vote for her?

[onearmedbandit]

One of the basic premises of driving is what is known as Driver Responsibility. Passangers no matter what their station in life are not responsible for the speeds that they are driven at. This applies as much to all of us including Helen Clark.

I think what this has demonstrated to me at least is the cavalier attitude some police have to the public as well as the lack of guts to say no. The other thing that has pissed me off on this who paid for the defence? What's the bet you and I.

Skyryder


Skyryder

In Japan if you get into to a car with a drunk driver, or for that matter a speeder, the passengers can face fines as well, quite serious fines. The reasoning behind it is that they should be responsible to either make the driver stop or get out of the car. Kind of like being party to a criminal act that you could stop, but choose not to. I for one think this isn't a truely bad idea, especially for drink drivers. If you get into a car with a drunk driver, then you are just as guilty as the driver.

[WINJA]

In Japan if you get into to a car with a drunk driver, or for that matter a speeder, the passengers can face fines as well, quite serious fines. The reasoning behind it is that they should be responsible to either make the driver stop or get out of the car. Kind of like being party to a criminal act that you could stop, but choose not to. I for one think this isn't a truely bad idea, especially for drink drivers. If you get into a car with a drunk driver, then you are just as guilty as the driver.
I THINK YOULL FIND THAT ONE OF THE GUYS WHO GOT OFF WERE CHARGED WITH BEING A PARTY TO A DANGEROUS ACT OR SIMILAR, I DIDNT QUITE CATCH THAT BIT ON THE NEWS , CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG

[WINJA]

In Japan if you get into to a car with a drunk driver, or for that matter a speeder, the passengers can face fines as well, quite serious fines. The reasoning behind it is that they should be responsible to either make the driver stop or get out of the car. Kind of like being party to a criminal act that you could stop, but choose not to. I for one think this isn't a truely bad idea, especially for drink drivers. If you get into a car with a drunk driver, then you are just as guilty as the driver.
MY MISSES JUST SAID THOSE FINES ARE ABOUT $3000 IN JAPAN, BUT YOU DONT NECCESARILY LOSE YOUR LICENCE

[scumdog]

MY MISSES JUST SAID THOSE FINES ARE ABOUT $3000 IN JAPAN, BUT YOU DONT NECCESARILY LOSE YOUR LICENCE

That's still a lot of petrol you could have bought....

I wonder what 'media beat-up' topic will front up next?? Yawn!!

I was MOST surprised at the sensible in-depth knowledge of some of the wel thought-out postings on this thread, right-on!! Those people should be running this country!! :motu:

[oldrider]

I find the posts on this thread mixed and very interesting. Helen is a slippery one alright. WINJA seems very upset.
Someone said, vote labour. "Really?" :puke:

[madboy]

Helen not taking responsibility is entirely expected, I mean HELLO wake up world, of course the big cheese always finds a way to pass the buck. That's the perk of being the big cheese.

The bit that irks me is that if I was tootling down the road at 170k (something not entirely foreign to me) I would be thinking that what I was doing was right (cos otherwise I wouldn't do it). IF I got caught, I'd fully expect to lose my license for a period of time. Hell, it's 70% over the speed limit!

But for these guys to do what they thought was right, after all it may well have been career suicide to do anything other than exactly what they did, and then claim that was a valid basis for receiving a piss-ass fine and no disq?? Well I don't agree there.

If anyone else does it - they lose their license for a decent period of time. And many people that would effect their jobs, etc. But these guys don't. That's not on in my books. Either what they did was right, or what they did was wrong. You can't play it down the middle.

They were cops. The same people who tell us that speeding is dangerous, and if you exceed 110km/h you're automatically a murderer in waiting. Anyone note a tinge of irony in that statement? I don't give a rats ass whether some of the learned cops on this site tell me that they're just following orders, who f***ing cares?! If I just follow orders to shoot someone, that doesn't make it right. If you do a job you have a moral problem with, you don't do it. If you continue to do the job, then by default you agree with the regime. So harden up cops, accept that the rules were bent yet again for you guys, and I hope you feel like great big hypocrites next time you pull one of us for speeding.

[idb]

.... the sensible in-depth knowledge of some of the wel thought-out postings on this thread, right-on!! Those people should be running this country!! :motu:
Aw shucks...stop it...you're embarrassing me.

[WINJA]

That's still a lot of petrol you could have bought....

I wonder what 'media beat-up' topic will front up next?? Yawn!!

I was MOST surprised at the sensible in-depth knowledge of some of the wel thought-out postings on this thread, right-on!! Those people should be running this country!! :motu:
ITS NOT A MEDIA BEAT UP , IS YOUR DEFINITION OF A MEDIA BEAT UP ANYTHING BAD SAID AGAINST THE COPS

[Timber020]

Okay so they were going to a rugby game, would it be fair to say that the cops would have also been going to the same game? Guys like driving fast, give them an excuse and they will do it.

She is the PM, the buck does stop with her but I doubt that with all she does that things like the speed of the motorcade, the type of vehicles used, oil and water checks of the vehicles, security etc is not something that is her responsibility. Its done for her by staff, they make the calls as they are responsible for he itenarly safety and transport, shes just the passenger. If she was driving I'd call for her head.

[scumdog]

ITS NOT A MEDIA BEAT UP , IS YOUR DEFINITION OF A MEDIA BEAT UP ANYTHING BAD SAID AGAINST THE COPS

No, but taking a Fairlane for a couple of laps around Pukekohe proves what????
It was THE most pointless thing I have seen for a long time.

Not arguing about the penalties involved, the guys were lucky. (just wonder how 'quick' the next urgent trip that Teflon Helen takes??) :wait:

[WINJA]

No, but taking a Fairlane for a couple of laps around Pukekohe proves what????
It was THE most pointless thing I have seen for a long time.

Not arguing about the penalties involved, the guys were lucky. (just wonder how 'quick' the next urgent trip that Teflon Helen takes??) :wait:
OH YEAH THE PUKE THING , FAIR NUF SCUM NO ARGUEMENT THERE

[James Deuce]

{snip} I don't give a rats ass whether some of the learned cops on this site tell me that they're just following orders, who f***ing cares?! If I just follow orders to shoot someone, that doesn't make it right. {snip}.

That's called the "Nuremburg defence", it didn't work then (1945-'49), and it most definitely shouldn't be allowed now.

The whole thing just makes me sad. It's a bit off when those in power (pollies I mean, not the Police) rub our noses in how little real personal power we actually have.

[Skyryder]

That's called the "Nuremburg defence", it didn't work then (1945-'49), and it most definitely shouldn't be allowed now.

The whole thing just makes me sad. It's a bit off when those in power (pollies I mean, not the Police) rub our noses in how little real personal power we actually have.

We all have personal power. It's derived from two words, yes or no. When you allow your superiors to intimidate you to such an extent as to break the law, as the drivers of the PM's motorcade did, then you either do not have the balls to say no or are too scared too. Or else you consider yourself above the law.

They all should have been found guilty not just three of them.



Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Helen not taking responsibility is entirely expected, I mean HELLO wake up world, of course the big cheese always finds a way to pass the buck. That's the perk of being the big cheese.

The bit that irks me is that if I was tootling down the road at 170k (something not entirely foreign to me) I would be thinking that what I was doing was right (cos otherwise I wouldn't do it). IF I got caught, I'd fully expect to lose my license for a period of time. Hell, it's 70% over the speed limit!

But for these guys to do what they thought was right, after all it may well have been career suicide to do anything other than exactly what they did, and then claim that was a valid basis for receiving a piss-ass fine and no disq?? Well I don't agree there.

If anyone else does it - they lose their license for a decent period of time. And many people that would effect their jobs, etc. But these guys don't. That's not on in my books. Either what they did was right, or what they did was wrong. You can't play it down the middle.

They were cops. The same people who tell us that speeding is dangerous, and if you exceed 110km/h you're automatically a murderer in waiting. Anyone note a tinge of irony in that statement? I don't give a rats ass whether some of the learned cops on this site tell me that they're just following orders, who f***ing cares?! If I just follow orders to shoot someone, that doesn't make it right. If you do a job you have a moral problem with, you don't do it. If you continue to do the job, then by default you agree with the regime. So harden up cops, accept that the rules were bent yet again for you guys, and I hope you feel like great big hypocrites next time you pull one of us for speeding.


Agree with most of what you say with the exception to references to Helen Clark. The fact that she is the PM does (correction) 'not' make her responsible for the behavour of her drivers. Well not in law anyway.

The simple fact is that if you drive and are caught for some road infringment then it is the driver who gets charged. Some here think it should also be the passanger. Now just think about that for a minute..............so your wife or partner is driving and you are running late or whatever..............and you are charged along with the driver. Hell there's enough bitching about speeding tickets as it is when in control a vehicle let alone passangers being charged.

Skyryder

[James Deuce]

We all have personal power. It's derived from two words, yes or no. When you allow your superiors to intimidate you to such and extent as the drivers of the PM's motorcade did then you either do not have the balls to say no or are too scared too. Or else you consider yourself above the law.

They all should have been found guilty not just three of them.



Skyryder

I agree with the last bit, but I really don't understand your first paragraph at all. On the one hand you agree with my "Nuremburg Defence" analogy, but then you accuse me of considering myself above the law. I don't.

[pyrocam]

Possibly... You can be my character witness... and tell them how sensible i am at riding :yes:

can I record the court case and make it my avatar?

[Skyryder]

I agree with the last bit, but I really don't understand your first paragraph at all. On the one hand you agree with my "Nuremburg Defence" analogy, but then you accuse me of considering myself above the law. I don't.

Jim 'you' have mistaken this as a personal pronoun in reference to youself. In my first post on this matter I was using it in the plural.

From the Concise Oxford Dictionary

YOU Pronoun. Used with person or persons addressed or one such person and one or more associated persons. end quote

I was refering to the defendents not yourself.



Skyryder

[texmo]

Im hoping to use this case in my court case...

What did you get done for TS? My mate got done for dangerous driving because he had sustaned loss of tration with people close by, that is 25meters away.....

[Indoo]

Agree with most of what you say with the exception to references to Helen Clark. The fact that she is the PM does (correction) 'not' make her responsible for the behavour of her drivers. Well not in law anyway.


I agree with some of what you have said, but the fact that she pleaded ignorance and acted like she had no say in the matter is ridiculous in the least.

She and her staff were the sole reason they were speeding, the cops involved (while stupid) had little say in the matter, unless they wanted to put their careers on the line by abandoning a prime ministerial motorcade because it exceeded the speed limit.

If you say they all should have been convicted then i hope you mean Helen as well.

[Skyryder]

I agree with some of what you have said, but the fact that she pleaded ignorance and acted like she had no say in the matter is ridiculous in the least.

She and her staff were the sole reason they were speeding, the cops involved (while stupid) had little say in the matter, unless they wanted to put their careers on the line by abandoning a prime ministerial motorcade because it exceeded the speed limit.

If you say they all should have been convicted then i hope you mean Helen as well.

Passangers can not be convicted for offences commited by the driver. And rightly so. Whether she knew of the circumstances and the time restraints is speculation. She pays people to handle these issues so she may not have known.

We can all sit on the sideline and pontificate to what she should have done. But the fact that there is an election in the not too distant future and political considerations may have played a part in her silence. Who knows. She is on record as saying that when she writes her biog. she will have a great deal to say on this issue.

Skyryder

[scumdog]

If you do a job you have a moral problem with, you don't do it. If you continue to do the job, then by default you agree with the regime. So harden up cops, accept that the rules were bent yet again for you guys, and I hope you feel like great big hypocrites next time you pull one of us for speeding.

Got no moral problems with what I do, and the point about 'agreeing with the regime' went right over my head, please elucidate. :sherlock:

No need for ME to harden up, never had no rules 'bent' for me, and if they're bent for others? ce's la vie. :violin: :wait:

Nope, don't feel a hypocrite when I pull somebody over, I'm not paid enough for that!!

[ManDownUnder]

I agree with some of what you have said, but the fact that she pleaded ignorance and acted like she had no say in the matter is ridiculous in the least.

She and her staff were the sole reason they were speeding, the cops involved (while stupid) had little say in the matter, unless they wanted to put their careers on the line by abandoning a prime ministerial motorcade because it exceeded the speed limit.

If you say they all should have been convicted then i hope you mean Helen as well.

I'm curious to see what (if anything) they unoficially got out of it. They take the wrap - get the Pollies off (and in get blamed for their actions in accordance with the law) but what do they get in days to come - priviledged duties of some sort etc?

It's curious that Helen "Didn't Notice"... because if she did, she would have been called as a witness, and asked why she didn't ask the driver to slow down.

The driver would then be in the position of saying what really happened (and my guess is that Helen said "get me there ...PRONTO") or lying in court - ANOTHER offence to add to the bill...

Naaa - it's all BS. But I liked Brash's comeback on it today "If I get elected PM.... I promise to notice if the car I am in is doing 160 kph"

[Lou Girardin]

Now there's Harry Duynhovens comment after the GG's driver was done for 130 in passing lanes, "some people are getting too prissy about speeding". I agree completely Harry, can you get your auditors to be less prissy when applying speed tax to us?
Actually what he said made complete sense about exceeding the limit to overtake safely.
Then the Police spooksman John Kelly commented that "if you have to exceed the speed limit to overtake, your judgement is flawed".
The only flaw here is the decision to promote phobic personalities to positions of power.
BTW I see that Kelly has been acting Road Safety manager for months now. When are they going to get a real one?
And what happened to his boss Fitzgerald, did he have a mental breakdown because the road toll is so high?

[ManDownUnder]

Now there's Harry Duynhovens comment after the GG's driver was done for 130 in passing lanes, "some people are getting too prissy about speeding". I agree completely Harry, can you get your auditors to be less prissy when applying speed tax to us?


but Lou - that assumes there is one law for all...

[stanko]

I thing the police were placed in a no win situation. If there were a trust opened to pay their fines it would be overflowing.

Clark has been proven to be a liar once again. Her record is not brilliant and thats just the stuff shes been caught for.

If I speed 100 times I may get caught once, If I do 50 burglaries I may get caught once or twice. Clark has been caught being less than 100% truthfull several times, how much has she got away with?

The Police just do the job that they are ordered to do, before Labour we had bugger all road police, now that seems to be the focus, it isnt Police policy so much as Govt directives, and ACC buying enforcment.

Public execution Sept 17th, Ill be in the crowd

[ManDownUnder]

Public execution Sept 17th, Ill be in the crowd

I'll selling tomatoes

$5/dozen (regular)
$10/dozen for rotten ones
$12/dozen for frozen ones...

[laRIKin]

Passangers can not be convicted for offences commited by the driver. Skyryder

What about the young guy in Gore that was drunk and gave his keys to
a friend that was also drunk and then the driver killed a kid at his gate.
They both got done with a fine and or was it prison.
I don't think is was right, but he (owner/passenger) got done as well,
but to a lesser degree.
I have always wondered how they could do that.

[Skyryder]

What about the young guy in Gore that was drunk and gave his keys to
a friend that was also drunk and then the driver killed a kid at his gate.
They both got done with a fine and or was it prison.
I don't think is was right, but he (owner/passenger) got done as well,
but to a lesser degree.
I have always wondered how they could do that.


Yes because he gave his keys to another drunk driver. Whether he knew he was drunk is irrelevant. Ignorance is not a defence. Bit like you giving your keys to someone with out a licence and they go and kill someone. You're going to get done for something. Stupidity is not a crime so they will think of something else.

Skyryder

[laRIKin]

I know what you are saying.
But it BS, on one hand, you are not of sound mind to drive.
But if you are drunk you are, going to make a sound judgement.
He threw down his keys and said I'm to drunk jumped into the back seat and passed out. And not knowing who was going to drive his car.
Well that was part of his defence.

Now a interesting point was made to me.
What if the cops were changed with endangerment of the PM life.
Then she would have, had to take the stand in court.

[Lou Girardin]

So, the buck doesn't go to the top then?

[Deano]

I agree with some of what you have said, but the fact that she pleaded ignorance and acted like she had no say in the matter is ridiculous in the least.


I remember taking a mate's mum to housie once in an RX4 - I nudged it fairly slowly up to 180km/h then asked what she thought of the car - then how fast she thought we were going....she thought about 100-120km/h until I said look at the speedo.

Who knows if Helen new or not, only the fly on the wall maybe.

Shouldn't be any double standards though, and all for a poxy game of thugby :grouphug:

[Deano]

What about the young guy in Gore that was drunk and gave his keys to
a friend that was also drunk and then the driver killed a kid at his gate.
They both got done with a fine and or was it prison.
I don't think is was right, but he (owner/passenger) got done as well,
but to a lesser degree.
I have always wondered how they could do that.

What about the guy who got done for manslaughter after revving it up at the lights against a girl racer - they dragged and the chick lost it killing at least one occupant of her car.

Would a cop construe us lads having a bit of a charge up the Taka's as racing, and if one bins and dies, the other(s) get done for manslaughter ?

I would love an informed opinion on this scenario please guys ?

[spudchucka]

What about the young guy in Gore that was drunk and gave his keys to
a friend that was also drunk and then the driver killed a kid at his gate.
They both got done with a fine and or was it prison.
I don't think is was right, but he (owner/passenger) got done as well,
but to a lesser degree.
I have always wondered how they could do that.
The owner of the car is a party to the offence. His dick head mate wouldn't have killed anyone if he hadn't given him the means to do it.

[Ixion]

I remember taking a mate's mum to housie once in an RX4 - I nudged it fairly slowly up to 180km/h then asked what she thought of the car - then how fast she thought we were going....she thought about 100-120km/h until I said look at the speedo.

Who knows if Helen new or not, only the fly on the wall maybe.

Shouldn't be any double standards though, and all for a poxy game of thugby :grouphug:

Tok Mrs Ixion for a pootle in the new AlfaToy on the weekend, Tootled along a bit of a straight and asked her how fast she though we were going. She said "oh about 60 or 70 kph". In fact we were doing (uh, twice 70 is 110 , isn't it ?) yes ,a bit over "110" kph . "A bit over twice that, dear" . So people can't always tell.

(She loved the Alfatoy, BTW, which is a relief. Said she hadn't had so much excitment in ages. Under instructions to buy a radar detector too, in the past whenever I bruited such a purchase she would say "But why do you need one, you don't go over the speed limit on that motorbike, I hope. Oh no dear of course not". But now she says I better get one. Coming up !

[Skyryder]

Tok Mrs Ixion for a pootle in the new AlfaToy on the weekend, Tootled along a bit of a straight and asked her how fast she though we were going. She said "oh about 60 or 70 kph". In fact we were doing (uh, twice 70 is 110 , isn't it ?) yes ,a bit over "110" kph . "A bit over twice that, dear" . So people can't always tell.

(She loved the Alfatoy, BTW, which is a relief. Said she hadn't had so much excitment in ages. Under instructions to buy a radar detector too, in the past whenever I bruited such a purchase she would say "But why do you need one, you don't go over the speed limit on that motorbike, I hope. Oh no dear of course not". But now she says I better get one. Coming up !

Why don't our wives get together. She may talk mine into getting one. :soon: When's fathers day?? :rofl:

Skyryder

[laRIKin]

Deleted as its going OT

[inlinefour]

now go and paint your own roof. :rofl:

[Skyryder]

So, the buck doesn't go to the top then?

The buck stops with the driver Lou. That's the top. Got nothing to do with the passangers; period. Just imagine the pillion being booked along side the rider for speeding.
Bloody hell war would breakout.


Skyryder

[Pixie]

I'll selling tomatoes

$5/dozen (regular)
$10/dozen for rotten ones
$12/dozen for frozen ones...
Do you do rocks painted to look like tomatoes?
How much?

[Pixie]

No, but taking a Fairlane for a couple of laps around Pukekohe proves what????
It was THE most pointless thing I have seen for a long time.

Not arguing about the penalties involved, the guys were lucky. (just wonder how 'quick' the next urgent trip that Teflon Helen takes??) :wait:
Teflon Helen?Is that 'cos she has a face like frypan?

[Lou Girardin]

Teflon Helen?Is that 'cos she has a face like frypan?

A face slapped with a fry pan.

[Lou Girardin]

The buck stops with the driver Lou. That's the top. Got nothing to do with the passangers; period. Just imagine the pillion being booked along side the rider for speeding.
Bloody hell war would breakout.


Skyryder

Heard of aiding and abetting?