Front washing out

[speeding_ant]

I suspect this might be a setup issue, or rider issue (bad composure?), but not sure.. When leaning harder on either side the front starts washing out - it feels like the bike is steering far more on the back wheel than the front. You can see this via the unused strips on the tyres, the back is mostly used and the front doesn't match.

Hornet 250. I'm running almost new M3's. New Hornet 600 rear shock & spring with a few clicks of preload. The front has been shimmed slightly to increase preload and is running fresh oil/seals. The suspension feels much better than stock, holds more composure on rough roads. I've lowered the fork tubes in the crowns by 5mm to compensate for less sag. I'm running lower bars than standard - with less sweep back.

I have room to lower the front more, just not sure if that's the right action to take?

Any experts who know what the issue might be?

[rocketman1]

[QUOTE=speeding_ant;1130552786]I suspect this might be a setup issue, or rider issue (bad composure?), but not sure.. When leaning harder on either side the front starts washing out - it feels like the bike is steering far more on the back wheel than the front. You can see this via the unused strips on the tyres, the back is mostly used and the front doesn't match.

Hornet 250. I'm running almost new M3's. New Hornet 600 rear shock & spring with a few clicks of preload. The front has

Im not a suspension expert sorryr, but if you are running too heavy oil in the front forks, or you have to much preload, ie basically the front is too hard then that may cause the issue you have.
Also there is not enough front suspension travel will tend to make the bike understeer, plus your weight may be now pushed too far forward with lower bars upsetting the front / rear bias.
Can also promote tankslappers, been there, done that on my SV1000
Think of motards, huge suspension travel in comparison too your bike, but will probably out handle your bike.

[speeding_ant]

Thanks for the info. Running stock oil weight, and only added a few mm of spacers in there. I'm getting around an inch of sag.

I might experiment a little - I'll start with dropping the forks in the crown a bit lower to see what effect that makes. If that doesn't solve it then I'll need to remove the shims and see if it's a travel stiffness issue.

I also just recently found out my front axle is bent, something that could affect handing somewhat :mad:

[Hitcher]

Any experts who know what the issue might be?

Sounds like tyre pressures to me. Try running the front and rear tyres at the manufacturer's recommended pressures and see what happens. It's only a bog standard basic Honda, so finding a solution not likely to require an over-analysed suspension outcome.

[speeding_ant]

Sounds like tyre pressures to me. Try running the front and rear tyres at the manufacturer's recommended pressures and see what happens. It's only a bog standard basic Honda, so finding a solution not likely to require an over-analysed suspension outcome.

Good point... I run 35psi front, 39-40psi rear. Honda recommends 36 front, 42psi rear.

Not sure what difference an extra psi will make?

[Tarded]

I strongly doubt 1 PSI changes anything enough for the average rider to notice.

Try putting it back to stock then do one mod at a time. Its the only way to get useful clean data.

Its the basic method for tuning.

Multiple mods create confusion and guess work as to why its better/worse.

Dont dick with what you dont understand - general comment, not aimed at the OP here.
A good excuse to learn more and fiddle with the bike properly.

Good fun and satisfying in my not very humble opinion.

[speeding_ant]

I strongly doubt 1 PSI changes anything enough for the average rider to notice.

Try putting it back to stock then do one mod at a time. Its the only way to get useful clean data.

Its the basic method for tuning.

Multiple mods create confusion and guess work as to why its better/worse.

Dont dick with what you dont understand - general comment, not aimed at the OP here.
A good excuse to learn more and fiddle with the bike properly.

Good fun and satisfying in my not very humble opinion.

Cheers for the advice - I think I'll be doing that!

I was wondering, it could also just be my technique in corners...

[george formby]

Cheers for the advice - I think I'll be doing that!

I was wondering, it could also just be my technique in corners...

Could be. Rolling off the throttle when you should be rolling on will do it.

[speeding_ant]

Could be. Rolling off the throttle when you should be rolling on will do it.

Thought of that, but I keep a steady throttle. I tend to lean in with the bike instead of leaning off it, and I haven't really learned from anyone the correct techniques.

Any advice there?

[Banditbandit]

Thought of that, but I keep a steady throttle. I tend to lean in with the bike instead of leaning off it, and I haven't really learned from anyone the correct techniques.

Any advice there?


Not sure what you mean by "lean in instead of leaning off it". I'm not sure how your bike handles .. but I go into a corner and roll the throttle on ... my bike does not like cornering with a steady throttle .. feels a bit like you describe ... maybe go into a corner a bit slower, then roll the throttle on . and power it on as you come out so the bike pull itself upright ...


Maybe the tyres themselves don't suit the bike and your riding style ..

Your description of the tyre wear doesn't tell me much. You should not have unmatched chicken strips on the tyres - they should be the same ... but maybe a bent axle causes that - best get that fixed first.

But what does the wear pattern look like on the front tyre? Is it scuffed from braking or accelerating? Can you post pix? (and maybe pix of the back tyre as well?)

But get that axle seen to .. I'm not sure what you mean by a bent axle .. I think the wheel would not turn properly if that was the case .. but whatever you mean it doesn't sound good ... or maybe it's bent off straight up and down - which would certainly affect they way it corners .. or even runs in a straight line .. when you look at your hands on the bars is one hand getting there a litle before the other hand? (Look when you are riding, not when you are sitting still or on a stand ...)

[speeding_ant]

Maybe the tyres themselves don't suit the bike and your riding style ..

What does the wear pattern look like on the front tyre? Can you post pix? (and maybe pix of the back tyre as well?)

Sure, I'll post up pictures tonight.

[Mushu]

Thought of that, but I keep a steady throttle. I tend to lean in with the bike instead of leaning off it, and I haven't really learned from anyone the correct techniques.

Any advice there?

"Once the throttle is cracked open it is rolled on evenly, smoothly and constantly throughout the remainder of the turn" - direct quote from twist of the wrist 2

You should check it out, the book is a little better but you can watch the video on YouTube.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[speeding_ant]

"Once the throttle is cracked open it is rolled on evenly, smoothly and constantly throughout the remainder of the turn" - direct quote from twist of the wrist 2

You should check it out, the book is a little better but you can watch the video on YouTube.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

As far as I'm aware I do that already :cool: I've read those books and watched the videos, but I'm not going out there to race - just have a bit of fun on the twisties. I've been riding for a while, but I'm self taught. Probably have picked up a few bad habits on the way.

I suspect having someone significantly more skilled than I follow me on a ride would be helpful to see if I'm doing anything bizarrely wrong.

[steelestring]

As far as I'm aware I do that already :cool: I've read those books and watched the videos, but I'm not going out there to race - just have a bit of fun on the twisties. I've been riding for a while, but I'm self taught. Probably have picked up a few bad habits on the way.

I suspect having someone significantly more skilled than I follow me on a ride would be helpful to see if I'm doing anything bizarrely wrong.

Give it to me and I will take it for a hoon :niceone:
See if it does it for anyone else?
M3s will tip in fast once you get more progressively into your lean just to also consider. Front is a bit pointy but once your get it over it feels great.

2 cents

[speeding_ant]

Front:
283442
Rear:
283443

[SPP]

I'm getting around an inch of sag.

Front? that's not much. Try 30-35% of available travel as start point or road riding (probably around 35mm-40mm)

Whats the rear like?

Also check front rebound is not too quick (but don't be tempted to over do it).

[speeding_ant]

Front? that's not much. Try 30-35% of available travel as start point or road riding (probably around 35mm-40mm)

Whats the rear like?

Also check front rebound is not too quick (but don't be tempted to over do it).

I'll have to properly measure sag then. The forks and shock are simple, no rebound adjustments available. I'll have to check how much travel I have first... I'd presume 5" front, no idea what the rear would be.

[SPP]

When having problems in corners the first place to look is you. Mid-corner try wiggling your fingers and flapping your elbows. If you're arms are locked up you could be steering the bike so relax.

Next, find someone to ride it and watch you ride; someone who knows what they're doing. Do they think it's poos too?

If you're still not happy with the bike I'd start from the last change. Problem is you've changed everything all at once? (tyre model, shock, shock length?, preload, fork height). Some experimenting is on the cards then. A track is good for that. Play with geometry as well as damping... oh no damping adjustment.

As that rocket dude said, not enough front end dive or choppered and bike will be reluctant to turn in and drift wide on entry. When you release the brake and get on the throttle the front shouldn't pop up too quickly. If it does and you trail brake then that feels a little like a washing tyre too.

[Mushu]

As far as I'm aware I do that already :cool: I've read those books and watched the videos, but I'm not going out there to race - just have a bit of fun on the twisties. I've been riding for a while, but I'm self taught. Probably have picked up a few bad habits on the way.

You did say in your earlier post you keep a steady throttle, I assumed you meant constant throttle.
According to Keith Code the throttle rule applies on all bikes in all situations except possibly downhill decreasing radius corners (and when traffic makes it impossible). It's all to do with the geometry of a motorcycle the physics are quite complicated but it comes down to the rear wheel actually turns the bike, the front only initiates the turn (in the video they show a clip of a race bike turning with the front wheel in the air to illustrate this).

Of course it could be something else but it's still a good idea to be sure it's not your riding before you blame the bike, I had a few front end washouts on the ninja and I had to sort it out before I could trust myself riding the R6. In my case the ninja was brand new so I knew it was my fault.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[speeding_ant]

You did say in your earlier post you keep a steady throttle, I assumed you meant constant throttle.
According to Keith Code the throttle rule applies on all bikes in all situations except possibly downhill decreasing radius corners (and when traffic makes it impossible). It's all to do with the geometry of a motorcycle the physics are quite complicated but it comes down to the rear wheel actually turns the bike, the front only initiates the turn (in the video they show a clip of a race bike turning with the front wheel in the air to illustrate this).

Of course it could be something else but it's still a good idea to be sure it's not your riding before you blame the bike, I had a few front end washouts on the ninja and I had to sort it out before I could trust myself riding the R6. In my case the ninja was brand new so I knew it was my fault.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

I would like to see if it is my riding as that's the cheapest thing I could do ;)

How did you sort it out?

[speeding_ant]

When having problems in corners the first place to look is you. Mid-corner try wiggling your fingers and flapping your elbows. If you're arms are locked up you could be steering the bike so relax.

Next, find someone to ride it and watch you ride; someone who knows what they're doing. Do they think it's poos too?

If you're still not happy with the bike I'd start from the last change. Problem is you've changed everything all at once? (tyre model, shock, shock length?, preload, fork height). Some experimenting is on the cards then. A track is good for that. Play with geometry as well as damping... oh no damping adjustment.

As that rocket dude said, not enough front end dive or choppered and bike will be reluctant to turn in and drift wide on entry. When you release the brake and get on the throttle the front shouldn't pop up too quickly. If it does and you trail brake then that feels a little like a washing tyre too.

Thanks for the advice - I'll try this.

Re: mods, no major geometry changes have been made - and I've made small changes over 6 months. The bike has retained more or less the same characteristics, but at least the ride quality has improved and the traction from the M3s is far superior to the old Shinko's that were on there.

I think the biggest thing I can do right now is ensure that I've got the sag set correctly front and back, which is a good point made.

[Hugo Nougo]

Hi Mr Ant, good to see you're still with us, as too the wear on your tyres it looks pretty normal, if your setup was causing the front to "wash-out" there would be some distinctive scratch marks at that point on the tyre and you would probably have crashed by now, as to uneven chicken strips between front and rear just check out a few other bikes and I think you'll find it's normal, my s20 bridgestones on the 636 are not the same, remember the tyre profiles are different but designed to compliment each other.
How does it feel through the bars, does the front want to tuck in?, if so you'll feel yourself pushing more on the inside of the bar when leaned into the corner.

[speeding_ant]

Hi Mr Ant, good to see you're still with us, as too the wear on your tyres it looks pretty normal, if your setup was causing the front to "wash-out" there would be some distinctive scratch marks at that point on the tyre and you would probably have crashed by now, as to uneven chicken strips between front and rear just check out a few other bikes and I think you'll find it's normal, my s20 bridgestones on the 636 are not the same, remember the tyre profiles are different but designed to compliment each other.
How does it feel through the bars, does the front want to tuck in?, if so you'll feel yourself pushing more on the inside of the bar when leaned into the corner.

Cheers :)

Through the bars, around a slower right hand bend (40km/h), it feels like the front tyre is slipping away to the left. It's relatively gradual, enough that I can "catch" it and move my weight inwards. I've had this happen three times now, enough that I've lost confidence.

Through 'higher speed' twisties (small incline, gradual corners, good surface) it feels good, though through the bars I feel the front is quite slow to react to my commands. Quite a vague feeling I guess.

I was told I could sharpen the front up a little by dropping the forks in their crown slightly. But I want to know if it's me first :)

I'm used to downhill mountain biking/trail riding, where a lot of my cornering is based on ensuring enough weight is on the front wheel to get traction to snap the bike into a corner. I guess road bikes are different... :rolleyes:

[SPP]

I was told I could sharpen the front up a little by dropping the forks in their crown slightly. But I want to know if it's me first :)

I'm used to downhill mountain biking/trail riding, where a lot of my cornering is based on ensuring enough weight is on the front wheel to get traction to snap the bike into a corner. I guess road bikes are different... :rolleyes:

Is the same. Sharpen the steering by lowering the front (raising the forks in the triples = lowering the triples on the forks)... you get it. You'll be able to feel a 5mm change.


edit: It's normal to see different sized "chicken strips" front to back. The only tyre I've ever had even strips was Dunlop Q2 and the rear on those are steep near the edge compared with most other tyres.

[speeding_ant]

Is the same. Sharpen the steering by lowering the front (raising the forks in the triples = lowering the triples on the forks)... you get it. You'll be able to feel a 5mm change.

Boom - I'll lower by another 5mm and see what difference that makes.

[SPP]

Boom - I'll lower by another 5mm and see what difference that makes.

No harm in trying. Go too far though and the bike will plough; you'll feel that too.

[speeding_ant]

No harm in trying. Go too far though and the bike will plough; you'll feel that too.

Sounds... exciting *pucker*

[Hugo Nougo]

Turning a motorcycle is exactly like your push bike, only with a throttle to back it up, check out some slow motion action from any racing, your bike runs a 120 or 130 front from memory (160 rear?)and might be why the steering feels slow or heavy, Honda generally build neutral steering bikes but those wheels sizes are normally found on much bigger bikes.

Trust your instincts, it sounds like somethings not right, I'd check wheel, steering and swing arm bearings first, dropping tyre pressure will ensure extra heat but will only add to the heavy steering issue.

[speeding_ant]

Turning a motorcycle is exactly like your push bike, only with a throttle to back it up, check out some slow motion action from any racing, your bike runs a 120 or 130 front from memory (160 rear?)and might be why the steering feels slow or heavy, Honda generally build neutral steering bikes but those wheels sizes are normally found on much bigger bikes.

Trust your instincts, it sounds like somethings not right, I'd check wheel, steering and swing arm bearings first, dropping tyre pressure will ensure extra heat but will only add to the heavy steering issue.

Yeah 130 16" front, 180 17" rear. First thing I checked was bearings - they're fine thankfully. The rear shock bush was done for - but ended up replacing the entire shock.

I just found the front axle is bent (which ended up being the reason for a warped rotor, damnit), and have a replacement on the way. Checked forks - they're straight.

Thanks for all the advice, really appreciate it.

[Hugo Nougo]

5mm will sharpen the steering but be aware that it could result in more tyre wear, mid-corner stability especially if hitting bumps, and of course hi-speed stability. If there is a physical problem with the bike it could at worst lead to a tank-slapper. I know it's only 5mm but I have gone down this path before, 5mm was good, 10mm must be better!, bike was unrideable over 180k (Gpz900)

[speeding_ant]

5mm will sharpen the steering but be aware that it could result in more tyre wear, mid-corner stability especially if hitting bumps, and of course hi-speed stability. If there is a physical problem with the bike it could at worst lead to a tank-slapper. I know it's only 5mm but I have gone down this path before, 5mm was good, 10mm must be better!, bike was unrideable over 180k (Gpz900)

Good to know - I can see how that could happen with the 16" front and a steeper head angle.

Thankfully wouldn't happen at speed, even tipping the ton on my bike is a struggle!

[Mushu]

I would like to see if it is my riding as that's the cheapest thing I could do ;)

How did you sort it out?

Practice, and analyzed every part of my riding, I read and watched everything I could find on the subject, videoed my riding and rode the worst conditions I could on the most difficult roads I could find

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[Banditbandit]

I just found the front axle is bent (which ended up being the reason for a warped rotor, damnit), and have a replacement on the way. Checked forks - they're straight.

Thanks for all the advice, really appreciate it.

Yeah .. get that fixed first, before you do anything else .. and then see what it feels like ..

[Morcs]

When you say washing out are you meaning you are loosing the front end all the time?

Is it when its wet? - M3s were renowned for not being a great wet tyre.

Otherwise, i would suggest fitting some cable ties around your fork tubes so as you can see after a trip how much your forks are compressing - if forks bottom out or are even too hard it can have adverse affects on front end grip.

[nzspokes]

Im kinda going through the same thing with my 900 Hornet. The front feels to go away. For me I will be changing tyres as the front is scalloped a bit and probably changing the fork springs to a more suitable spring rate. The rear spring on Hornets is to soft also but I think to change that its a shock swap.

[speeding_ant]

When you say washing out are you meaning you are loosing the front end all the time?

Is it when its wet? - M3s were renowned for not being a great wet tyre.

Otherwise, i would suggest fitting some cable ties around your fork tubes so as you can see after a trip how much your forks are compressing - if forks bottom out or are even too hard it can have adverse affects on front end grip.

Not all the time - and I'm starting to get a good hold on where it's letting loose. I don't ride hard enough in the wet to warrant any wash outs ;)

I'm trying a few simple fixes first - like setting sag correctly. I've already got zip ties on the forks, just waiting for a fine day.

[speeding_ant]

Im kinda going through the same thing with my 900 Hornet. The front feels to go away. For me I will be changing tyres as the front is scalloped a bit and probably changing the fork springs to a more suitable spring rate. The rear spring on Hornets is to soft also but I think to change that its a shock swap.

I'm thinking the Hornets aren't exactly 'precision machines', being shipped with el cheapo suspension from factory. From what I've seen on the interwebs, a lot of the earlier Hornets that exist as track day bikes tend to have CBR front ends on them, with 17" wheel conversions.

That being said, it's a great bike for me to continue learning on. I've been riding for 4-5 years and I don't think I'm reaching the full potential of this bike yet. I could do with more power though :rolleyes:

I'll keep on saving...

[nzspokes]

Heres a cut and paste from 919.org. Hornets are known as 919s in the US, well the 900cc ones.

The 919

Ok since every other e-mail I get is about various aspects of the 919 let me see if I can build a page to accurately convey my thoughts. This will be another one of my attempts to take what started out as a post on a forum & convert it into a one size fits all article about the 919's potential & purpose as I see it. In other words it's my opinion. I base this on the fact that I've been riding sportbikes for over two decades now and as a professional Test Rider I can and do push them much closer to their limits than the common joe. No, I'm not trying to brag that I am a riding deity as there is always someone faster, but generally whether riding the track or the country backroads that someone faster is usually me at the front of the pack. I know the difference between a good handling bike & a poor handling one. I have ridden all manner of streetbikes/racebikes in various states of tune & suspension work from bone stock to re-worked forks & even in a few cases all the way up to pure works unobtanium superbike parts. I am very astute in my riding as I have a tendency to notice very small details & nuances that most riders don't even recognize let alone have a chance to dismiss. Whether that means you should listen to me or not remains to be seen, but most of the experienced riders do tend to agree with my statements when it comes to such topics.

The 919 is a budget based sportbike built by Honda to get a piece of the naked bike market that is quickly becoming popular here in the States. The popularity of this bike comes from many different angles. The basic premise is it is a cheap bike to buy & a cheap bike to insure, however others see it as an updated reminder of days gone by & still others like myself find it a fun alternative to the more narrowly focused current sportbikes wrapped in plastic that are most commonly seen in bright flashy colors with riders weaving in & out of traffic at usually high rates of speed... The 919 is quite subdued compared to those bikes & generally attracts a more mature rider with less desire to be the king of the canyon or local racetrack in that same scope comes the fact that the 919 has just enough suspension underneath of it to keep it on the road & no real amenities to speak of.

Honda took a bulletproof 900RR motor, detuned it & in the process gave it a 100% user friendly spread of managable power delivery, added an aesthetically pleasing "hidden" frame just barely capable of handling the motors output & threw on a barebones suspension just adequate to get the power to the ground. They saved a bundle on costs & are undoubtedly making an excellent profit margin on a bike they didn't think would sell well in the US market. Pretty much a win-win situation for Honda whereas they could have gone all out & created a naked monster power machine that costs more to manufacture & ultimately would appeal to a smaller group of potential buyers. Just from reading the various 919 message boards it's clear that most 919 owners have exactly what they are looking for in that the 919 is a fun bike & perfect for most riders just looking for a sporty ride/weekend tourer/grocery getter etc... Very few actually want to up the horsepower of the 919 & those that do look at it as a novelty type gimmick simply due to how it limits the focus of the bike & tend to drop the idea when it's pointed out that after spending the cash it takes to get the power up, then sorting the suspension/frame that they will still have a bike that would get its ass handed to it by any of the current bone stock 600 sportbikes. I do support anyone's right to do whatever mods to their bike that they want. However more power from the motor from internal mods is a point of diminishing returns as the frame & suspension are already overtaxed. The normal every day rider doesn't use the performance that the bike offers now & those that can ride the bike to its potential & beyond know that the motor is not the limiting factor but rather the chassis.

The end result in Honda's design of the 919 is a bike that is lightweight, easy to ride, fun & a jack of all trades, but master of none sportbike. More power from the motor would mean a beefier frame which means more weight & then better suspension to control the added weight etc...

Now don't misconstrue, better suspension in the form of reworked stock forks & a quality aftermarket shock will definitely increase the 919's potential, but only marginally in terms of outright handling prowess as you still have to contend with the swingarm & chassis flex among other things like the lack of a progressive type linkage. BTW take what you read from most sportbike owners (especially 919 owners) with a grain of salt. I mean no offense to anyone, but purely as an example, many summers ago I rode with a couple of guys that had swapped their front forks to F4i forks & just raved on & on about how good they were & how much better the handling/feedback was. I rode with them a bit & even though my 919 was loaded down with saddle bags & a cooler & I have completely stock suspension they couldn't even keep me in sight past a couple of corners. I had to wait about 2 minutes at the end of each road for them to catch up... These guys were professing how much better the new forks were when they couldn't ride worth a damn to begin with & simply lacked the experience to add any validity to their claims.

At any rate, back to the topic put those same quality suspension parts on a full-on sportbike & the return on investment will be much greater. I am a huge advocate of doing suspension work before anything else on my bikes, but I was never able to bring myself to spend the money needed in light of the bikes inherent weaknesses. I've ridden plenty of very nicely modded 919's and always appreciated every single one of them, but found no real improvement with several thousand dollars invested in new triple trees and expensive Ohlins forks installed over re-valved OEM forks. On my personal 919 I rode circles around more sport oriented bikes all the time by simply floggin' it, holding on and hoping it sticks. The ass end is all over the place & the front end feedback is vague at best, but it does stay planted!!! Still I just ride the bike as it is & smile the entire time as it is extremely flickable & fun. I will also admit that another hesitation about installing an Ohlins shock on the bike was the whoa factor I would get from other riders. When you just walk all over some guys on a group ride or a trackday and they come over to look at your bike and it is laden with expensive Brembo & Ohlins bits etc they tend to think the reason for your ability lies within the components you have installed. When they come look at my bone stock naked bike and leave scratching their heads I know I left an impression good or bad... If you have the money & just want to throw an Ohlins shock on it or get the forks re-worked I say go for it as you will no doubt be pleased with how much more compliant the 919 will become in all road conditions or if you are looking to simply smooth out your daily commute then the Ohlins shock does that instantly. It can be a great confidence builder to be able to feel the bike on the road so much better. Just be realistic in your expectations and understand that the 919 is not an RR type sportbike and never will be no matter how much money you throw at any part of it.

The 919 can still be be made to do some fairly impressive things with or without suspension mods, but you have to be a smooth rider to be quick on it.

This part is new: Forks

Similar to adding a quality aftermarket shock to the rear of the bike re-working the front forks with correct damping rates and fork springs for your weight will also greatly increase the compliance from the front end and improve your ride quality in every aspect. What needs to be pointed out though is just throwing heavier fork springs in the 919 forks is not a fix-all solution. Most riders complain about excessive front end dive on the 919, but what they fail to realize is that when the front end dives under braking that it is altering the geometry of the bike which aids the way the bike both tips into the turn and steers through it. If you stiffen the front end too much then the geometry change does not happen and the front end not only fights you, but will also have a tendency to push you wide coming out of the turn as you have reduced the trail numbers from the way the engineers designed it. Most riders will find that a smoother approach to braking maneuvers resulting in less front end dive will reward far more than stiffening up the front end.
The last thing I want to touch on is just how easy this bike is to ride. I don't think I have ever owned a bike that was this inviting to ride quickly. At anything up to an aggressive pace on the backroads the 919 just lets you throw it around at will & it stays for the most part composed. The suspension that feels rough & tight in the city limits starts to really come in & work for you at elevated speeds. Now when you get up to something close to 7/10 then the bike starts to protest & the rear end starts getting very loose & the shock damping gets worse as the lean angles increase. I have learned to just ride through the corners when the rear end starts bobbing up & down or hunting for grip as letting off the gas or braking simply aggravates the condition. You HAVE to trust the bike & again smooth is the key to making this bike work as it is & any ham fisted throttle jockey or brake happy rider will find himself either getting passed or in the ditch. You don't have the horsepower to make up time on corner exit so you have to keep up your corner speed or the other guys will just motor away from you. The one thing the 919 has in its favor that the more race oriented sportbikes don't is front end stability. This usually means it is hard to steer, but the 919 has a very neutral feel to it even on tight fast left/right transitions. Some of this I am sure is in part to the wide handlebars increasing leverage on steering inputs, but overall the lazy geometry numbers of the 919 make it a very stable bike that rarely induces headshake & invites you to push harder through the twisties. The rake/trail & wheelbase numbers of the bike pretty much preclude the need for a steering damper as the front end recovers instantly from just about anything you can throw at it from cresting hills while the front wheel goes light to crossed up wheelies landed just a little too early Naturally if a steering damper makes you feel better & gives you more confidence then by all means do what you need to do, but as you become more & more intimate with the bike you will discover that it is by all accounts one of the best mannered front ends on the road today even if the feedback is lacking & you really have to do something stupid to get it to shake its head at you.

[speeding_ant]

Heres a cut and paste from 919.org. Hornets are known as 919s in the US, well the 900cc ones.


So I just need to learn to ride better, and take out the front shims then ;)

[10bikekid]

I'm suspicious that with the Hornet 250 Honda has made some style over handling decisions (rear tire seemed to fat on the one I saw the other day) and your mods may not have helped

perhaps get a another respected biker to ride it and see if he notices your issues as well

[speeding_ant]

I'm suspicious that with the Hornet 250 Honda has made some style over handling decisions (rear tire seemed to fat on the one I saw the other day) and your mods may not have helped

perhaps get a another respected biker to ride it and see if he notices your issues as well

Most likely - it's a 180 section rear tyre.. Over the entire Hornet line they used old Fireblade parts, hence the 16" front wheel. I suspect it was a cheaper avenue to manufacturing these bikes.

[MikeD400]

I used to have a hornet 250 did alot of ks on it used and it used to love the corners kept up with big bikes as far as cornering was concerned. Mine was completely standard with pirelli diablos had the rear shock set to max preload i ran 36 psi front 38 rear, had no chicken strips on the front and still a cm on the back i always felt the wheel sizes were a mismatch but honestly it never gave me any real trouble.

Pointless post or there maybe something to consider in there.

[speeding_ant]

I used to have a hornet 250 did alot of ks on it used and it used to love the corners kept up with big bikes as far as cornering was concerned. Mine was completely standard with pirelli diablos had the rear shock set to max preload i ran 36 psi front 38 rear, had no chicken strips on the front and still a cm on the back i always felt the wheel sizes were a mismatch but honestly it never gave me any real trouble.

Pointless post or there maybe something to consider in there.

Good to know!

Cheers :)

[pete-blen]

how old are the tires.... what dose the 4 digit date mold say ?..
i have seen new bikes with 3 year old tires on them...
look for a 4 digit number... ie 2612
26 = 26th week of the year..
12 = 2012

[skippa1]

Are you sure you keep feeling the front end washing out? If you are right you must be a fucken wicked rider to keep saving a washed out front wheel

[speeding_ant]

Are you sure you keep feeling the front end washing out? If you are right you must be a fucken wicked rider to keep saving a washed out front wheel

Has happened three times. It feels like a slide, and the front end of the bike moves away from me, but it doesn't fully let go. It feels like if I let it go any further it will drop.

It's not sudden, so It's not a proper loss of traction like you're talking about.

[Banditbandit]

Have you had the bent front axle fixed yet? It's pointless trying to sort out a problem (if there is one) until this has been done and you have ridden the bike ..

[speeding_ant]

Have you had the bent front axle fixed yet? It's pointless trying to sort out a problem (if there is one) until this has been done and you have ridden the bike ..

Agree - haven't touched it, just waiting on the part.

[neil_cb125t]

Its amazing how easy it is to think there is a problem with our machine, turn in and stability are normally the areas that we all want the bike to handel better yeah?

From having a quick look at the thread I can only offer one area of advise that is free and able to be installed instantly.....it could be the way you are steering the bike. Have you looked at or do you understand counter steering? If not Youtube up Keith code counter steering or there may even be his whole DVD called Twist of the wrist 2 on there.

What it sounds like is your creating a mini slide when you steer the bike, this is created as you input your steering. If you press and release on the inside bar steering correctly, the front forks turn outwards to the required steering angle, which leans the bike over. Once your happy with your line and lean angle you release the input and the forks RETURN to a neutral possition for the bike to track around your set line. If you press on the bar and HOLD the pressure the forks will turn outwards until you hit the lean you desire, but then the forks CANNOT return to the neutral possition, so the front tyre begins to slide ever so slightly. These slides are created by either the inside bar pressure being held, not released, OR the opposing bar being pushed at the same time as the inside thus stopping the front wheel from returning to the neutral possition.

Once you have steered the bike how tight are you on the bars...........??? does it change from lefts to rights???

[Mushu]

Niels post above goes with what I have been trying to say (about the throttle rule) these are the two things I learned that helped my riding more than anything else. I'd give you green rep, Niel, but it don't work on my phone.

Twist 2 is on YouTube in its entirety or it's also on piratebay if you're not against such things.

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