I need to borrow a trickle charger

[fireball]

Are there any kind souls out there that have a trickle charger that I may borrow?
I am in the process of trying to work out what is wrong with The Grim Reaper (VL250)

One night good as gold to start and ride home, the next night similar time, temp, riding conditions etc the bloody thing wont start. I know the VL are notorious for cold weather problems and not wanting to go anywhere, but that is usually once on the road and riding.
I thought bike was possibly flooded but that rarely happens. So I am thinking maybe the battery has had it. Managed to jump start the bike last night, take it for approx a 20km half hour ride where I noticed it sounds like the choke cable maybe stuck on as it it over revving.... bike was off for approx half hour when I tried to start it again, and it hardly turned over once before giving up and just ticking away..... Because the engine was warm managed to push start the bike no problems. Sounded a little flooded but not as bad as the first time.

So apart from the battery any thing else I should be looking at?


Will prob have to send it off for an expensive service :(

[Mo NZ]

If your local to me you can loan mine. Where are you.
How old is your battery? May be time for a new one. A shop will be able to load test it for you.

[fireball]

If your local to me you can loan mine. Where are you.

I am in Panmure... Obviously because bike is not going I can't do a pick up from anywhere :cry:

[Mo NZ]

Bumma. Im way south of you (6 hrs ride). Hopefully there is somebody local who can help.
You could remove the battery and have it checked out.
How old is the battery as it sounds like a classic new battery required.

[unstuck]

Battery should have bugger all to do with the bike flooding, if the battery was fully charged and turning over ok, then you may be getting flooding. Get a new battery, that one sounds shagged. I am guessing you have cleaned all terminals and connections.:Punk::Punk:

[fireball]

I am guessing you have cleaned all terminals and connections.:Punk::Punk:

All scrubbed, no build up of any kind on the terminals... I would assume if the battery was on the way out it would have caused minor problems before an epic fail? I think that is the second battery I have had in the bike since brand new if not it would be approx 6 years old.
The flooding has only just started since a mechanic (not familiar to my bike) turned the fuel tap from PRI (it's normal running position since I first purchased the bike) to ON.....

[unstuck]

Sounds like you may have a carb issue too then if it is flooding in the on position, what is your starting procedure once flooded.? Batteries are usually only good for a couple of years.

[fireball]

what is your starting procedure once flooded.?

Let it sit for a bit , then try turn it over and once it fires give it shit to blow the fuel through.
VLs do have a dislike for running in the cold... My mechanic put it down to moisture in the carbs, but that is only once the bike is running and doing motorway speeds (that was the case last year and the year before), the bike can't burn the fuel so the bike stalls out.

[Tigadee]

Got a trickle charger, can drop it off to you. :yes: Send me a PM for address.

[SILVER SUZI]

Not sure how a trickle charger will help you, unless it's one that test the battery and tells you if it's shagged.

[fireball]

unless it's one that test the battery and tells you if it's shagged.

Some one is popping over to have a look and test the battery to see if it's shagged.
I am leaning more towards it's the bike that needs to be looked at more than the battery.

[fireball]

So after getting the battery checked. It is not the problem. Put a brand new batery in aswell to test, bike wont turn over and the battery gets really hot. So possible electrical issue going on I think.

[imdying]

Might be worth paying a mechanic a half day to give it a full service. Stomp all the obvious little issues out once and for all.

[Rhys]

Check the wires from the battery to the starter motor especially were it rubs against the frame or other wires

[fireball]

Check the wires from the battery to the starter motor especially were it rubs against the frame or other wires

Had a look, nothing obvious to be seen. Off to the mechanic after the long weekend to be fixed. I think it's gping to be an expensive trip.

[bogan]

Sounds like your charging system is fucked. Until I got to the part where you said the battery gets really hot and it wouldn't turn over, that sounds a bit weird, so more details about those circumstances would be needed for an internet diagnosis.

[Akzle]

battery hot sounds like a short. have battery sitting next to your bike, with jumper leads: ground the ground and put the red to the back of the starter.
good, or na?



The flooding has only just started since a mechanic (not familiar to my bike) turned the fuel tap from PRI (it's normal running position since I first purchased the bike) to ON.....

prime is for priming, ie cold starts. it generally throws fuel ahead of the carbs to fire the cylinder. shoul definitely, definitely, not run on prime.
unless someone has the lines mixed up or the tap is fucked, it should run on "on"
would also explain the flooding thing.

[davereid]

.... bike was off for approx half hour when I tried to start it again, and it hardly turned over once before giving up and just ticking away..... Because the engine was warm managed to push start the bike no problems. Sounded a little flooded but not as bad as the first time.(

After a 20km ride a dead flat battery would still be only partially charged, but I would have expected that a good battery would have obtained enough charge to turn over more than once.

I don't think your charging system is stuffed, as once running you were able to do 20km. If your charing system was not working, the bike would be running on an already flat battery and I dont think you would get that far.

You say the bike "sounds flooded". Normally the smell of petrol helps confirm a diagnosis of flooded, so if you didnt smell petrol there may be another issue.

You also said that the bike was always operated on the PRI fuel tap position, and it has never gone properly since moved to ON.

In the PRI position, the fuel tap is ON, so fuel is always supplied to the carbs.

In the ON position, fuel is only supplied to the carbs when there is manifold vacuum. The idea is that if you park on a slope, and a carb float valve sticks, the carbs will overflow and if your petrol tap is in the PRI position, the entire petrol tap may empty on the ground, but in theON position, only the fuel in the fuel line will drain out.

Its works by having a pipe from the back of the fuel tap, to the inlet manifold. Vacuum formed when the motor is turning over turns the fuel on.

This may be related to your issue. If this pipe has a hole in it, your bike wont provide vacuum, and you will get poor fuel flow - the fuel tap will be only partly on, possibly working under deceleration, and filling the fuel line up, they its emptying under acceleration.

Your motor will also suck air in through this leak, and will run lean. This causes hard starting especially in cold weather.

My suggestions.

Get an auto electrician to put a load test on your battery, if its dodgy get a new one. And check the vacuum line from fuel tap to manifold. Its very cheap pipe and can be relpaced for a few dollars - just take the old one to an auto store and they will have matching line.

[kinger]

Easy David!
You're contributing with the benefit of knowledge........could get reprimanded for that!

[BMWST?]

Had a look, nothing obvious to be seen. Off to the mechanic after the long weekend to be fixed. I think it's gping to be an expensive trip.

if it is any consollation,its only likely to be more expensive if you dont do anything now

[fireball]

The battery has been ruled out as a problem it is holding a full charge.

[Edbear]

The battery has been ruled out as a problem it is holding a full charge.

With the cables and battery heating up like that I think it is definitely a short somewhere. The performance issue does point to carbs and possibly the fuel supply as has been said.

Find the short and get the carbs sorted and you should have a new bike! :niceone:

Nice to meet you in person, if I can help with anything anytime you have my number.

[kevie]

had a similar problem with my old bike..... hard/failed starting problems, sometimes it started OK other times just clicked like the battery was flat..... I blamed the battery ..... blamed the starter ..... then discovered it was the solenoid playing up ... that got hot, cables got hot, didn't check battery for heating up ..... new solenoid and presto .... solved problem,

If you don't know bikes Id recommend a mechanic..... from experience I have wasted a hell of a lot of time and money trying out things before sorting a problem

[fireball]

Normally would take bike to Haldanes but now that is not possible.... Where is a good place to go? Have had some problems with mechanics before so very careful who gets to fix the bike

[fireball]

Nice to meet you in person, if I can help with anything anytime you have my number.

Was great meeting you too!! Thank you for the advice and help, will let you know the outcome of what is wrong.

[FruitLooPs]

In a similar vein to what Dave is saying, it could well be a bad float valve in the carb (this valve usually closes once the float bowl in the carb is full of fuel - think toilet cistern) causing the bike to flood with fuel overnight, come morning the starter is pushing a piston up against a cylinder full of gas hence no turning over. You can get bike to run that haven't fully hydrolocked but are still filling up with fuel, symptoms for that are bike wooly and won't idle or down low in the revs feels crap because the carb will be flooding the cylinder, as you get up in the revs it would clean out. If you open the oil filler you can have a sniff if it smells like petrol, dump the oil and replace + fix your carb. This is because when the cylinder fills with fuel overnight or whenever, it'll eventually seep past the piston rings and start filling up the crankcase.

If you have a vacuum petcock (which you do since you have prime and on) it should always be set to ON, with the exception of the first time the carbs have been filled with fuel after being drained for servicing (prime is just gravity feeding the carbs gas, if you have a bad float it'll keep on filling).

I believe you can also have a faulty fuel tap that will flow fuel even in the ON position normally requiring a vacuum to open the tap.

If it is hydrolocking, be very careful - the starter alone is unlikely to bend a rod in the engine, but if you fired another cylinder forcing a semi-full cylinder to compress with force it can very easily bend a rod $$$ engine repairs, possibly new crank etc. :weep:

My bike has a gravity only fed fuel tap, as do quite a few older bikes - as a habit I *always* turn mine off after a ride, because I've had leaky float valve in the past (and bent rod to prove it lol..)

[fahnkahn]

the battery getting hot could be due to major current draw from starter the current will produce heat so try touching starter/connections to find a hot spot if starter is hot there is the problem if it is the connections clean em up and try again,winter is bad for batteries good for sparkies make sure battery has water however when they start using water they on the way out i am unsure of your bike but it is not uncommon for starter and charging unit to be the same item so could produce two problems if faulty,also if engine is hard cranking will draw fuel in but not enough power at battery to produce good enough spark to fire hence the fuel smell

[fireball]

So got a phone call from bike shop today and the verdict is in.
The problem is the starter motor is totally damaged and unrepairable. They spent yesterday try to track down a second hand motor with no luck. I have no issues with buying a new one but they have to come from Suzuki Japan and the next shipment is not due till August.

Does anyone know where I could track one down? Not sure of the part number, but it's a starter motor for a 2008 VL250 Intruder.

[BuzzardNZ]

Try the local bike wreckers. Failing that, a 250 should be pretty easy to crash start, although it would be kinda embarrassing doing that all the time.

[fireball]

250 should be pretty easy to crash start

It's a pig of a thing to crash start.

[SILVER SUZI]

there are only a couple of wreckers here in NZ, try them first. If you have no joy from them, you will find there are heaps of wreckers in Australia. Or there is Ebay.
Someone on here will help you fit it. :yes:

[fireball]

Have been offered a starter from a Suzuki UZ125... Does anyone know if the output and fitting would work on the VL?

[Mo NZ]

Does anyone know where I could track one down? Not sure of the part number, but it's a starter motor for a 2008 VL250 Intruder.[/QUOTE]

E-Bay and air-mail. Have it in a week. Cost ya some $$. :eek5: Enquire how much for the August one and make your decision.

[zippy]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Starter-Motor-Suzuki-VL125-VL250-Intruder-/400504856774?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d3ff320c6&vxp=mtr

[FROSTY]

So got a phone call from bike shop today and the verdict is in.
The problem is the starter motor is totally damaged and unrepairable. They spent yesterday try to track down a second hand motor with no luck. I have no issues with buying a new one but they have to come from Suzuki Japan and the next shipment is not due till August.

Does anyone know where I could track one down? Not sure of the part number, but it's a starter motor for a 2008 VL250 Intruder.
In my experience bke shops are very good at what they do but when it comes to complex auto electrical issues they aren't flash.
before yu give up on your starter motor I'd take it in to an auto sparkie to see if he can rebuild it.

[danchop]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Starter-Motor-Suzuki-VL125-VL250-Intruder-/400504856774?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d3ff320c6&vxp=mtr
exactly looks the same as the one ive got,altough it doesnt list any specs.
anyway shes quite welcome to take mine away and see if it fits/works on her vl without giving me anything for it.if it does she can just borrow it until a new one arrives or give me 4 times 15 box of steinlager classic(not pure cause thats shit beer).
im pretty sure its the same starter because its obvious it wasnt manufactured for the uz alone,as one of the mountings is not used on my model,plus the uz and vl are japanese made suzukis so thats a plus.
funny you can buy these starters ex china for around $5 a piece but you need to order 200 minimum

[Edbear]

In my experience bke shops are very good at what they do but when it comes to complex auto electrical issues they aren't flash.
before yu give up on your starter motor I'd take it in to an auto sparkie to see if he can rebuild it.

A good idea, too!

[unstuck]

I would be wanting to know what is destroyed in the starter motor, and why. They may just chuck some new brushes in your one and on sell it, been done before.;)

[fireball]

I am having and aftermarket one ordered in and will be asking for my starter motor back to take it to someone independent to see if it can be fixed and prob sell it online or something.
Bike should be on the road in about a week and a bit even if the price tag is steep..... I miss my bike and just want it to run.

[fireball]

So I sent Suzuki NZ this message on FB and their reply. What are your (non trolling) thoughts?

Dear Suzuki
Ever since I was big enough to ride motorcycles I have owned Suzukis. My first bike was a DS80 best little thing ever!
I now currently own a 2008 VL250 Intruder K7 (named The Grim Reaper). Recently it has had problems starting, so I took it to my bike mechanic. He called me yesterday to inform me the starter motor is beyond repair. I have no problems with this as it is part of owning a bike. The part I am most upset and disappointed with is the fact he can not find a second hand replacement or a brand new part. As I understand this is a common fault with the VL and considering how popular the bike is I would assume there would be the stock available. I am really upset that the next available shipment and available part is not due until August. So I am left without my only mode of transport for 8 weeks.
I love my Suzuki, I am just left feeling left out in the cold.
Regards.
Kat.


Suzuki New Zealand Limited (https://www.facebook.com/SuzukiNZ)

Hi Kat
Sorry to hear about your recent troubles with your VL250.
According to our parts sale history we’ve only ever sold one new starter motor so this would explain why we don’t currently hold stock of this particular item. Items that are required urgently can be air freighted from Japan and delivered in 8-10 days but the shipping costs are a lot higher. It sounds like your part has been sea freighted.
Our technical team are aware of a small number of customers who have experienced problems with their starter motors. The problem is not widespread and they estimate around 1% of the total fleet of VL250s have suffered from a similar issue.
The reason for the failure in their opinion is most likely linked to infrequent maintenance or incorrect service procedures being followed. The choke plunger can become seized in the carburettor housing and is commonly missed during servicing or if servicing is carried out by non-qualified people.
We have advised our Suzuki dealers to lube the cable and check the choke plunger during routine servicing as without the choke operating correctly the VL starter motor can be easily overloaded and overheated trying to start the motorcycle.
Ride Safe,
Suzuki New Zealand.


(Please note all services done on my VL250 have been done at the regular service intervals and to keep my bike under warranty was done by a Suzuki approved/ Suzuki dealer)

[Edbear]

That could also explain why it's not running to its performance potential.

[F5 Dave]

exactly looks the same as the one ive got,altough it doesnt list any specs.
anyway shes quite welcome to take mine away and see if it fits/works on her vl without giving me anything for it.if it does she can just borrow it until a new one arrives or give me 4 times 15 box of steinlager classic(not pure cause thats shit beer).
im pretty sure its the same starter because its obvious it wasnt manufactured for the uz alone,as one of the mountings is not used on my model,plus the uz and vl are japanese made suzukis so thats a plus.
funny you can buy these starters ex china for around $5 a piece but you need to order 200 minimum

Look, sorry for getting to this thread late, but I'll have to stop you right there. Steiny classic is the shit beer & if you can manage to ingest more than a bottle or two it give a wicked hangover that not many other beers can match.


As the add said; They're drinking our beer there. - 'cause no fucker here will.

[Richard Mc F]

I am having and aftermarket one ordered in and will be asking for my starter motor back to take it to someone independent to see if it can be fixed and prob sell it online or something.
Bike should be on the road in about a week and a bit even if the price tag is steep..... I miss my bike and just want it to run.

The armature is shorted out and would need rewinding.

I know, I have seen it

[fireball]

The armature is shorted out and would need rewinding.

I know, I have seen it

So on the level of fixable?