Didn't see, or didn't look?

[Naki Rat]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8739365/Driver-didn-t-see-motorcyclist-in-fatal-crash

There may well be more to this but an aged driver on the wrong side of the road on a gentle bend dawdling toward a turn in the early morning light, and a bike was in the wrong place at the wrong time. What a waste of a life! :(

[scumdog]

When I looked at the pic yesterday that's what it seemed to me too.:(

[oneofsix]

Saw the first report on this yesterday and suspect not only is there more to the story but that what you have is likely mis-reported anyhow, first reports yesterday had it as SH3 FFS.

A terrible waste of life and feel for his friends and family.

[willytheekid]

Thoughts go out to his family & friends :(...such a bloody waste indeed


...81 CB750...guy had good taste too



Ride safe over the long weekend KBers

[Naki Rat]

Note the distinctive stand of trees on the right (looking north from 'Warea') that also feature in the Stuff photo (http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8734969/Crash-down-the-coast).

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[unstuck]

Any ideas on why the motorcyclist did not see the car?

[Monkfish]

The cager was 80 years old.

When will be more stringent on elderly drivers???
IMHO they should have their own test they have to pass every year when they reach that age if they want to continue to drive.

[MD]

There has been a spat of fatalities caused by elderly drivers of late. With an aging polulation it will only get worse. I know I get frustrated when some old gezzer puttles along like a snail, uncetain which way he wants to turn, oblivious to the tail of cars in his wake and the mayhem his erratic driving is causing. No ideal what those hi-tech fan-dangled indicators are for.

I guess we will all reach that point and it must be hard to give up the freedoms of driving. Here's hoping we have the sense to know when to say yeah, nah.

[willytheekid]

There has been a spat of fatalities caused by elderly drivers of late. With an aging polulation it will only get worse. I know I get frustrated when some old gezzer puttles along like a snail, uncetain which way he wants to turn, oblivious to the tail of cars in his wake and the mayhem his erratic driving is causing. No ideal what those hi-tech fan-dangled indicators are for.

I guess we will all reach that point and it must be hard to give up the freedoms of driving. Here's hoping we have the sense to know when to say yeah, nah.

Very true!...but as speed "wasn't a factor"...this will no doubt be classified as just ANOTHER tragic accident!

After all, only speed kills on NZ roads! -NOT inept drivers!
...otherwise they would actually be focusing on driver training and education to stop this sort of thing from constantly happening...instead of investing millions of dollars on cameras, lowering speed limits & tolerances....in the name of "safety"! :tugger: ***


...enjoy the 4k weekend folks <_< (And FFS, Ride Safe!!)


***But there is still hope- http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/8741733/Police-target-slow-drivers

[Berries]

The cager was 80 years old.

When will be more stringent on elderly drivers???
IMHO they should have their own test they have to pass every year when they reach that age if they want to continue to drive.
They have to renew their licence when they hit 80 and then every two years after that. If he was 80 then he should have been through that process within the last 12 months. People fuck up at every age. The fact he was 80 might be about as relevant as the rider being 50.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/factsheets/57/older-drivers-licence-renewal.html

[Scuba_Steve]

They have to renew their licence when they hit 80 and then every two years after that. If he was 80 then he should have been through that process within the last 12 months. People fuck up at every age. The fact he was 80 might be about as relevant as the rider being 50.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/factsheets/57/older-drivers-licence-renewal.html

That just means they get a med cert (not hard to get) then pay moneys... ability to drive still remains optional.
I think renewal at absolute minimum should be a re-do of the learners, the cost is the same; but should really involve some driving. But of-course people weren't happy with having to renew their ID's in the 1st place (which is why we have to renew them) so I don't see them upsetting people more especially when licensing isn't even the purpose for renewals.

[scumdog]

That just means they get a med cert (not hard to get) then pay moneys... ability to drive still remains optional.


And their doctor has to agree they are still competent to drive - well at least down here that's the case.

And the med cert can be bloody hard to get if eyes, heart etc are not up to sctratch.

A big problem is oldies driving an automatic.

They don't move their feet on and off the pedals properly.

And one day their right foot slips off the brake pedal onto the gas pedal - and the car suddenly 'takes off' until they hit something.

And in a lot of cases when that first lunge forward happens they slam their foot down even harder onto what they still think is the brake pedal - and the car goes mental until it crashes.

And often afterwards they will swear the whole time they were pushing on the brake pedal as hard as they could "but the car wouldn't stop, it just took off on me":gob:

[Monkfish]

They have to renew their licence when they hit 80 and then every two years after that. If he was 80 then he should have been through that process within the last 12 months. People fuck up at every age. The fact he was 80 might be about as relevant as the rider being 50.

Yeah the Age might have been irrelevant,.... But if I were a betting man....


That just means they get a med cert (not hard to get) then pay moneys... ability to drive still remains optional.
I think renewal at absolute minimum should be a re-do of the learners, the cost is the same; but should really involve some driving. But of-course people weren't happy with having to renew their ID's in the 1st place (which is why we have to renew them) so I don't see them upsetting people more especially when licensing isn't even the purpose for renewals.

I agree Renewal should be more substantial and also check stuff like reflexes and modern driving techniques.

[Nat]

Why stop at people over 80 having to re-sit their licenses?

I know plenty of people in their 50s, 60s, 30s, 20s etc who could do with brushing up on their skills...

Maybe all driving licenses should have a 5/10 year expiry. I for one would support that.

[oneofsix]

And their doctor has to agree they are still competent to drive - well at least down here that's the case.

And the med cert can be bloody hard to get if eyes, heart etc are not up to sctratch.

A big problem is oldies driving an automatic.

They don't move their feet on and off the pedals properly.

And one day their right foot slips off the brake pedal onto the gas pedal - and the car suddenly 'takes off' until they hit something.

And in a lot of cases when that first lunge forward happens they slam their foot down even harder onto what they still think is the brake pedal - and the car goes mental until it crashes.

And often afterwards they will swear the whole time they were pushing on the brake pedal as hard as they could "but the car wouldn't stop, it just took off on me":gob:

Just want to pick you up on a couple of points there Scummy. In a small town knowing people can cut both ways, it can put social pressure on the Dr to give the benefit of the doubt to the old bugger, trust him when they say they always wear their glasses etc. Making it the Dr's decision to remove a drivers license, when that Dr will automatically also consider the affect on the patent's mental health, social interactions etc, is a bit unfair on the Dr and still gives no indication on the drivers ability to drive, know the current laws, or react in changing lights (remember Drs largely leave eyes specialists).

As to the brake vs Accelerator thing I believe the manufacturers are the most guilty. I have had several experiences of this. If you press both the accelerator wins, safety logic says the brake should win but find a clear road and try it. Therefore the oldie doesn't quite move their foot enough and catches both pedals, they don't even feel the accelerator is caught as it moves much easier than the brake so of course they press harder to try and stop thereby applying more accelerator at the same time. Why the F governments allow and manufacturers build automatics like that is beyond me and now they are making automatic bikes, wonder if they will have the same problem. BTW before teaching someone to drive in an automatic make sure you explain that it isn't a pedal per foot or else they wont stop when you expect them to. :facepalm:

[scumdog]

Making it the Dr's decision to remove a drivers license, when that Dr will automatically also consider the affect on the patent's mental health, social interactions etc, is a bit unfair on the Dr a

Still, the Dr also has to consider the risk to other road users too (himself included)

BTW: Have a look into the unstreamlined process to revoke the licence of an elderly driver because a family member is 'worried about them'. (and having other family members with a vested interest in 'Pops' keeping his licence makes the whole thing even more complicated)

[Daffyd]

Taking the licence off drivers doesn't help. Look at the old man that was killed driving in the wrong direction on the Northern motorway in Auckland last year. He had his licence taken 2 years ago, but kept driving. His family begged them to impound his car to no avail.

[oneofsix]

Still, the Dr also has to consider the risk to other road users too (himself included)

BTW: Have a look into the unstreamlined process to revoke the licence of an elderly driver because a family member is 'worried about them'. (and having other family members with a vested interest in 'Pops' keeping his licence makes the whole thing even more complicated)


Taking the licence off drivers doesn't help. Look at the old man that was killed driving in the wrong direction on the Northern motorway in Auckland last year. He had his licence taken 2 years ago, but kept driving. His family begged them to impound his car to no avail.

Both true but can't help but think that failing a license test is going to be more likely accepted as "proof" they are too old to drive than just accepting another person's "opinion".

[scumdog]

Both true but can't help but think that failing a license test is going to be more likely accepted as "proof" they are too old to drive than just accepting another person's "opinion".


Maybe - but the age-related mental health of those past safe driving can mean their attitude is:"I don't care a stuff - I'm still driving"
Even getting two cars impounded didn't stuff one of them down here.

[oneofsix]

Maybe - but the age-related mental health of those past safe driving can mean their attitude is:"I don't care a stuff - I'm still driving"
Even getting two cars impounded didn't stuff one of them down here.

I understand that car impounding doesn't work so why do we expect it to with the young and drunks?
But do you see how even the impounding of their cars is someone saying you are too old or mental to drive as oposed to failing a test saying you can't drive - you failed. Why do you think they used to complain so much about the oldies test being too hard even though it was easier than the new drivers test. Now if they had to do the standard learner or standard full, as the full is now easier than the restricted, then there is no excuse, it is the oldies failure

[danchop]

And their doctor has to agree they are still competent to drive - well at least down here that's the case.

And the med cert can be bloody hard to get if eyes, heart etc are not up to sctratch.

A big problem is oldies driving an automatic.

They don't move their feet on and off the pedals properly.

And one day their right foot slips off the brake pedal onto the gas pedal - and the car suddenly 'takes off' until they hit something.

And in a lot of cases when that first lunge forward happens they slam their foot down even harder onto what they still think is the brake pedal - and the car goes mental until it crashes.

And often afterwards they will swear the whole time they were pushing on the brake pedal as hard as they could "but the car wouldn't stop, it just took off on me":gob:

exactly how my 89 year old mum crashed last year,albeit in a shopping carpark.i dont think she should be driving,theyve lost thier alertness

[Katman]

As to the brake vs Accelerator thing I believe the manufacturers are the most guilty. I have had several experiences of this. If you press both the accelerator wins, safety logic says the brake should win but find a clear road and try it. Therefore the oldie doesn't quite move their foot enough and catches both pedals, they don't even feel the accelerator is caught as it moves much easier than the brake so of course they press harder to try and stop thereby applying more accelerator at the same time. Why the F governments allow and manufacturers build automatics like that is beyond me and now they are making automatic bikes, wonder if they will have the same problem. BTW before teaching someone to drive in an automatic make sure you explain that it isn't a pedal per foot or else they wont stop when you expect them to. :facepalm:

Clearly you've never heard of stall testing a torque converter.

[scumdog]

I understand that car impounding doesn't work so why do we expect it to with the young and drunks?


A few reasons:
They are too senile to comprehend
Their attitude is :'Argh, I haven't that long to live so I don't care'.
They have enough dollars to just go out and buy another car

[Subike]

When I finally cant get me leg ova me bike, I will get it mounted on a trailer, then my son can tow me everywhere, AKA the TV add....
Problem solved!

[willytheekid]

...Even getting two cars impounded didn't stuff one of them down here.

...Knee cap them?? :scratch:

or!...we could provide a free or affordable!, accessable transport system like trains & buses for old people such as this and many others!...kinda like we used to have?...well...before our Gov't sold most of them off...for a quick profit!:facepalm: (funny...theres that profit word again huh:rolleyes:)

[oneofsix]

When I finally cant get me leg ova me bike, I will get it mounted on a trailer, then my son can tow me everywhere, AKA the TV add....
Problem solved!

Get a Bergman or a Silverwing instead, then you don't have to get your leg ova :lol Silver haired on a Silverwing :killingme

[Subike]

Get a Bergman or a Silverwing instead, then you don't have to get your leg ova :lol Silver haired on a Silverwing :killingme

Thats enough abuse out of you.....really.....would look so cool, black leathers,,,,,,95yrs old......and the 18yr old snatch on the back?:bleh:

[oneofsix]

Thats enough abuse out of you.....really.....would look so cool, black leathers,,,,,,95yrs old......and the 18yr old snatch on the back?:bleh:

well the family joke is a Goldwing for my retirement, the Mrs likes the idea of the comfy pillion seat. :msn-wink:

[Rhys]

...Knee cap them?? :scratch:

or!...we could provide a free or affordable!, accessable transport system like trains & buses for old people such as this and many others!...kinda like we used to have?...well...before our Gov't sold most of them off...for a quick profit!:facepalm: (funny...theres that profit word again huh:rolleyes:)

Maybe the MPs could give all people over the age of 65 a card that gives them a huge discount, we could call it a gold card !

[Naki Rat]

We arranged for my 78 year old Mum to stop driving 18 months back. Kept getting lost at night when leaving the occasional function and just drove until she recognised landmarks to guide her home. She still thinks that driving is a possibility if we hadn't sold her car! We have arranged for her to have a half price taxi coupon system but for those suggesting bus/train or similar that can be a recipe for disaster for a memory challenged person (i.e. risk of getting lost).

The amount of dementia cases looming is a national (and international) nightmare and driving is far from the only problem it presents. The amount of time required to keep a parent of declining mental capabilities safe and well is substantial and it seems every second person of our age group (50s) is dealing with similar situations. The effects on productivity and obviously the health system must be noticeable on a national scale, and growing :(

[Scuba_Steve]

Why stop at people over 80 having to re-sit their licenses?

I know plenty of people in their 50s, 60s, 30s, 20s etc who could do with brushing up on their skills...

Maybe all driving licenses should have a 5/10 year expiry. I for one would support that.

Look at your licence, it (like all others) will expire every 10yrs. The Govt wants to keep your ID up-todate.




The Govt won't make any active moves against the elderly for 2 main reasons; 1 they vote, 2 they have time, lots & lots of time. Time that can be used to complain & alot of them like to utilize said time for such activities

[avgas]

Yellow line. Wished it had been a logging truck instead of a bike.
Killing off the wrong people. Wrong side of the road when there is a yellow line. Should have been a logging truck.

[Angel_of_Metal]

Pilots have to take the equivalent of a full driving test every 9 months, so I don't see why drivers over the age of 70 shouldn't either. Being able to drive, just like being able to own a gun, is a priviledge, not a right. Both of which can kill if used irresponsibly or incorrectly. Just because someone is medically fit to do something, doesn't mean that they are any good, or even safe at doing so.

Very much agreed about the aging population posing a greater risk and playing an ever increasing role in accidents (esp fatal ones) these days.

The fact that I got nearly taken out the other day by an elderly gentleman on the motorway has absolutely nothing to do with my thoughts above... ;) Just a good lesson on why early spotting of forming sticky situations can save ya I guess!

[scumdog]

Look at your licence, it (like all others) will expire every 10yrs. The Govt wants to keep your ID up-todate.

The Govt won't make any active moves against the elderly for 2 main reasons; 1 they vote, 2 they have time, lots & lots of time. Time that can be used to complain & alot of them like to utilize said time for such activities


I thought all the heros ride/drove without any licence.??
"Only a fool need a licence"

[bigreddog]

When someone is dawdling around holding everybody up or pulling very slowly across oncoming traffic and there is an accident then speed IS a factor...
RIP CB750 rider:mad:

[awayatc]

so you all seem to know what really happened then.............?

just because there is a bandwagon around doesn't mean you got to jump on it.......

[scumdog]

They don't move their feet on and off the pedals properly.

And one day their right foot slips off the brake pedal onto the gas pedal - and the car suddenly 'takes off' until they hit something.

And in a lot of cases when that first lunge forward happens they slam their foot down even harder onto what they still think is the brake pedal - and the car goes mental until it crashes.

And often afterwards they will swear the whole time they were pushing on the brake pedal as hard as they could "but the car wouldn't stop, it just took off on me":gob:

And just today::::

A man who crashed his BMW into a parked car yesterday appeared to have hit the accelerator instead of the brake, Blenheim police said.

The crash happened at the busy Boyce and Nelson streets intersection about 4pm. The driver was turning right out of Boyce St when he hit a parked car and shunted it into a parked scooter.

The impact caused both cars to spin and face in the opposite direction.

Constable Ian Mills, of Blenheim, said tyre marks on the kerb and footpath showed the man was still accelerating after hitting the parked car.

That resulted in him driving through a nearby brick wall, Mr Mills said.

There was no injury...

(Well this time!)

[MD]

so you all seem to know what really happened then.............?

just because there is a bandwagon around doesn't mean you got to jump on it.......

We stand corrected. That's a relief to know a 50 y.o. riding a motorcycle did not die yesterday in Opunake after hitting head on a car that was on the wrong side of double yellow lines driven by an 8o y.o.

Edit- in sober light of day I take that back. Awayatac is right. The full facts aren't known. it could have been sun strike or the bike doing warp factor 3 or an animal on the road the car was going around or who knows what. My folks are 77 and 80 and still drive OK.

[Tarded]

Yeah that happened but I think the point is some of the story is just that. There may be more involved. Thats why fatals get a specialist investigation team.

Ive seen 3 oldies 'have a turn' and hit things over the years. I was one of those hit - in a car thankfully.

One time was at a testing station. The oldie lurched forward and hit a car over the pit. Wrong pedal syndrome. One very pale Indian inspector was the result - and some minor panel damage.

I remember on the box here a few years ago a drunk was involved in fatal with 2 girls.

usual things said about it but it was shown the girls hit him. If sober he may have avoided it - we dont know.

Yes obviously drink driving is stupid but not all is as it seems all the time.

[Scuba_Steve]

Since we like blanket laws so much I say just ban all automatics, unless you have a valid reason for needing one... but then if you have a valid reason for needing one I have to question your driving ability, so maybee just ban all automatics.

Problem semi solved! That should get most of the useless drivers off the road.

[onearmedbandit]

As to the brake vs Accelerator thing I believe the manufacturers are the most guilty. I have had several experiences of this. If you press both the accelerator wins, safety logic says the brake should win but find a clear road and try it.

Really? In the literally thousands of cars I've driven only cars with large amounts of power have displayed this trait.

[davereid]

Look at your licence, it (like all others) will expire every 10yrs. The Govt wants to keep your ID up-todate.


Mines a lifetime one, still got years to go. Papers getting a bit thin, buts its definitely not expired.

[oneofsix]

Really? In the literally thousands of cars I've driven only cars with large amounts of power have displayed this trait.

If you call as small as 1.6l large and typical of 2l but why would any car be allowed to show this trait?

[avgas]

If you call as small as 1.6l large and typical of 2l but why would any car be allowed to show this trait?
Its actually how they are made. I have driven a car with similar brake to accelerator and every time you feathers the brakes at low speed you near smash you nose on the steering wheel. Therefore most manufacturers still maintain a "real" element to the brake so that unless you stomp the thing there is a linear feel to having the brakes apply. Accelerator is delayed by the engine only. Stomp modern brakes and ABS takes over.
Most modern smart braking systems change the balance of the braking so that you have better control of the vehicle, and in most situations the brakes and accelerators are running parallel systems. I have heard of someone building a linked system - but was to pursued - basically when you touched the brake the brake computer would tell EFI to start slowing engine (e.g. do the opposite of whatever the accelerator is doing).
But effectively accelerator and brake are doing 2 separate tasks in a car, I think that should remain to be that way - people should get smarter. I do know what you mean though - size 12 boots a daihatsus are a bad mix for me.
Also certain kinds of nerve damage can cause you to think that left is right and right is left.
But neither is a good excuse for a crash here.