Paleo diet?

[scissorhands]

The palaeolithic or caveman diet is getting a bit of press lately. Basically its eat like your ancestors, no grains sugar or carbs

I smoked like a train these last 2 years, as well as a fair bit on and off for nearly 30years. Consequently, these last 6months I have had chronic dry skin and recent tendonosis, which began as a sporting injury.

As usual the GP was freaken useless so I hit the intern net.

Hours of googling later and I'm eating a pigs trotter boiled in soup every day....

Blaardy wow!!! My painful tendonosis is doing a u turn and I'm feeling great again, all in less than a week! Who would have thought... pigs feet!!

Gelatine rebuilds collagen. Collagen makes up a very very very big part of our bodies, soft tissues like ligaments and tendons, lungs and bones. The amino acids therein also detoxify the liver and are hepaprotective. Toe jam has totally cleared too, and I'm less stressed and wake happy with a boner

Tis a shame peeps no longer have bone broths, casseroles and stews, eschewing the old school for lean cuts, which are more expensive and less nutritionally supportive.

I need to rave about this and highly recommend bone broths. I ate out and got lazy these last few years, and paid the price of ill health.

If you eat plenty of casseroles and soups with bones, crockpots and roasts you will probably be fine.

If not, start now! Chicken feet, pigs feet, ears and tails, beef bones, sheep bones, chicken soup, fish head soup...
Not too much pig bits though, they dont sweat so metabolic waste may build in the tissue...

Gelatine/collagen also coats the intestines and prevents leaky gut which causes all the associated autoimmune disorders like arthritis irritable bowel lupus fibromyalgia MS.... all sorts can be healed simply by eating bone soups, and cutting out nearly all fruit and carbs

In one week my wrinkly skin on the back of my hands has gone, nails are really strong, face looks younger.... I cannot recommend highly enough
http://www.holisticselfhealing.org/BoneBroths.html

freaken useless doctors!

[Road kill]

Chur so that's why I'm so good lookin''.

Boil up bro' ?

[scissorhands]

I reckon!
Puha and pork bones:apumpin: some watercress would be choice:drool:

Just polished off the last of the big pot I made 5 days ago. Will make another tomorrow, and its also a very easy way to cook

Fuck bread, corn, cereals, processed foods and sweets from now on.....

[bluninja]

I've cut out carbs and sugar recently based on some research I've read. I've also added 50% more calories to my diet and maintained my limited exercise. The result so far is 7.5 kg lost in 4 weeks and 3% body fat reduction.

[oneofsix]

I've cut out carbs and sugar recently based on some research I've read. I've also added 50% more calories to my diet and maintained my limited exercise. The result so far is 7.5 kg lost in 4 weeks and 3% body fat reduction.

But the mantra is calories in calories out. However you are saying calories out hasn't changed, calories in has increased by 50% and you have lost weight. You can't go implying that the simple mantra doesn't tell the whole story.

[Tigadee]

Some of the less expensive cuts are some of the best. People have forgotten how good bones, tripe, liver, kidney, heart, tongue, etc taste.

Thanks for this reminder OP. I will make my bone broth tonight...

[Paul in NZ]

But the mantra is calories in calories out. However you are saying calories out hasn't changed, calories in has increased by 50% and you have lost weight. You can't go implying that the simple mantra doesn't tell the whole story.


I'm afraid that simple mantra never actually worked with our complex bodies.... I can lend you a copy of "the Smarter Science of Slim" if you want a better explanation.....

[oneofsix]

I'm afraid that simple mantra never actually worked with our complex bodies.... I can lend you a copy of "the Smarter Science of Slim" if you want a better explanation.....

You have said what I often say when people, including my Dr, try that mantra on me. I will keep that offer in mind, the research might come in handy. Bluninja really peaked my interest if he has done what his post implies.

BTW; found the podcasts to "the Smarter Science of Slim"

[oneofsix]

Some of the less expensive cuts are some of the best. People have forgotten how good bones, tripe, liver, kidney, heart, tongue, etc taste.

Thanks for this reminder OP. I will make my bone broth tonight...

can't have all that Awlful :cry: miss the steak n kidney pie, the pressed tongue but wasn't much into the rest, went off tripe as a kid.

[bluninja]

But the mantra is calories in calories out. However you are saying calories out hasn't changed, calories in has increased by 50% and you have lost weight. You can't go implying that the simple mantra doesn't tell the whole story.

The Law of Conservation of energy does not apply.....unless you measure the calories in all your waste and subtract that from the calories going in :)

Your body systems are pretty good at keeping a balance in most circumstances. Consider homeostasis; the more water you put in the more you excrete to maintain the right liquid balance internally. With food there's a whole load of hormonal and chemical balances.

Consider : if you work physically hard (exercise or physical work) you build up an appetite. Your brain somehow counts the work done and increases hunger to refuel an equal amount.

Men have fat stored mostly internally and then outside on the belly, women store it straight on the outside round their bum. If it's just excess calories how do they know they are on a woman and go straight to the arse?

Why do you get fat mommas in poor countries with skinny starving children? Sure they all eat up large and leave nothing for the kids....or the body stores fat regardless of the rest of the body being malnourished. When you are poor, what's the cheapest source of calories? Carb and sugar rich food.

[george formby]

Ah. Your the culprit! Making cheap meat fashionable & pushing up the price.

Used to get pigs heads for $2 each. The butcher wants $10 all of a sudden. Beef shin has doubled in price. Hearts are $5 each on special. Bacon hocks are posh now. K'inell, might have to start catching possums & weasels for tea.

[Paul in NZ]

You have said what I often say when people, including my Dr, try that mantra on me. I will keep that offer in mind, the research might come in handy. Bluninja really peaked my interest if he has done what his post implies.

BTW; found the podcasts to "the Smarter Science of Slim"

His idea is that your body has internal mechanisims to maintain your weight at a set point. The set point weight gets screwed up by crappy modern food including refined sugars and starches so you have to delete the crap to get your body to up its metabolisim and then it will regulate itself around a lower set point.

Because of all the shit I just can't eat anyway (type 1 diabetes and celeac) I find it very hard to 100% follow a purely theory based diet but having largely adopted his thinking my HBa1C readings have improved beyond belief. Thats good new for any type 1....

[slowpoke]

Paleo Diet? And the average life expectancy of Paleolithic man was what exactly?

[SPman]

K'inell, might have to start catching possums & weasels for tea.
Watch out if you'r after Pukekoes - the tendons will spear yr mouth something awful......

[oneofsix]

The Law of Conservation of energy does not apply.....unless you measure the calories in all your waste and subtract that from the calories going in :)
....

Why do you get fat mommas in poor countries with skinny starving children? Sure they all eat up large and leave nothing for the kids....or the body stores fat regardless of the rest of the body being malnourished. When you are poor, what's the cheapest source of calories? Carb and sugar rich food.

Hence you get the redneck comments about the lazy fat poor, yeah right with fizzy cheaper than milk.



His idea is that your body has internal mechanisims to maintain your weight at a set point. The set point weight gets screwed up by crappy modern food including refined sugars and starches so you have to delete the crap to get your body to up its metabolisim and then it will regulate itself around a lower set point.

Because of all the shit I just can't eat anyway (type 1 diabetes and celeac) I find it very hard to 100% follow a purely theory based diet but having largely adopted his thinking my HBa1C readings have improved beyond belief. Thats good new for any type 1....

don't think anyone can stick to any theoretical diet but good for you with what you are doing. Just heard his sink analogy.


Paleo Diet? And the average life expectancy of Paleolithic man was what exactly?
Not only that but you just can't get the same food any more with the way humans have continuously modified your food sources. Carrots were purple, apples weren't as sweet or big or long keeping, and what has been done to meat, size 26 "chickens" anyone?

[carbonhed]

Paleo Diet? And the average life expectancy of Paleolithic man was what exactly?

35... but AMAZINGLY they got none of the diseases that we associate with old age!!!!!!

[MSTRS]

Paleo Diet? And the average life expectancy of Paleolithic man was what exactly?

Not too many sabretooths out there these days...

[Banditbandit]

Paleo Diet? And the average life expectancy of Paleolithic man was what exactly?

Prolly about the same as yer average sprots bike hoon ...


35... but AMAZINGLY they got none of the diseases that we associate with old age!!!!!!


Gee .. I wonder why ? Could it be because .. Naa . it would never be that ....

[oneofsix]

Not too many sabretooths out there these days...

Nah, their descendants are curled up on the couch waiting for their slave to provide food.

[scissorhands]

Ah. Your the culprit! Making cheap meat fashionable & pushing up the price.

Used to get pigs heads for $2 each. The butcher wants $10 all of a sudden. Beef shin has doubled in price. Hearts are $5 each on special. Bacon hocks are posh now. K'inell, might have to start catching possums & weasels for tea.

Sorry about that! Bone bits are still cheaper than sausages, it can be our secret... TV and doctors will still repeat low fat/high carb for the peeps who watch it


Paleo Diet? And the average life expectancy of Paleolithic man was what exactly?

sabre tooth tigers and hunting parties? warring tribes and unhygienic living? who washed their hands back then? large animals and lizards freaken everywhere? haasts eagle? imagine what some microbes were like as well....

okay drop the label paleolithic and think of the generation only just before us, casseroles and stews, pigs trotters and such were commonplace just a few decades ago

Many current cultures like Chinese and Thai use bone broths nearly every day.

Just going by the improvements I'm seeing with:

aged skin looking younger,
tendons finally repairing,
increased energy and raised metabolism,
weight loss,
lung repair,
nails firming,
eyes clearing,
under eyes clearing,
strange waste coming out of my pores along my spine,
morning boner,
better poos,
improved kidney function,
skin on back of hands looking young again
improved mood and temperament
clearer thinking

.... all in less than a week eating a trotter every day, is proof enough for me

Will shift from remedial dose to a less frequent maintenance dose in a week or three. No more bread, cereals, cakes biscuits or sweets will be a real struggle... prolly they will just end up as occasional treats

I'm so sold and cheerful at this revelation, quite ecstatic to be honest:woohoo:

Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food. Many sufferers of disease are just a pigs foot away from improved health. Children will become healthy and happy and a joy to be around:yes: improved schooling and less anti social behaviours.

The food pyramid is wrong!

[MSTRS]

Just going by the improvements I'm seeing with:

aged skin looking younger,
tendons finally repairing,
increased energy and raised metabolism,
weight loss,
lung repair,
nails firming,
eyes clearing,
under eyes clearing,
strange waste coming out of my pores along my spine,
morning boner,
better poos,
improved kidney function,
skin on back of hands looking young again
improved mood and temperament
clearer thinking

.... all in less than a week eating a trotter every day, is proof enough for me



Co-incidence. The modern medecine-thing just took a little while to kick in.
Don't go upsetting all those gains by eating a healthy diet...

[MisterD]

No more bread, cereals, cakes biscuits or sweets will be a real struggle... prolly they will just end up as occasional treats

I wouldn't go as far as cutting out cereals, after all the "domestication" of wild grasses was a significant milestone in human evolution and allowed us to become farmers rather than hunter-gatherers.

IMO it's the overly-processed and refined nature of the way we consume cereals that's the problem, and I certainly couldn't make it through 90 minutes of footy on a Saturday arvo without my big bowl of porridge (with salt and a knob of butter, rather than sugar or syrup) 2 hours before kick off.

[oneofsix]

I wouldn't go as far as cutting out cereals, after all the "domestication" of wild grasses was a significant milestone in human evolution and allowed us to become farmers rather than hunter-gatherers.

IMO it's the overly-processed and refined nature of the way we consume cereals that's the problem, and I certainly couldn't make it through 90 minutes of footy on a Saturday arvo without my big bowl of porridge (with salt and a knob of butter, rather than sugar or syrup) 2 hours before kick off.

you've hit on a problem with simplistic food descriptions. Cereal manufacturers use it to confuse us into buying their crap. Did you realise the phrase "empty calories" was first coined in regard to breakfast cereals. Oats (porridge) is good cereal as is barley (:drool: whisky) whereas as corn flakes are the empty calories as is bran, how do you think they make the waste product taste ok?

[Drew]

No mention of the gout yet.

Nemmind, I'm sure it's not as bad as people say.

[oneofsix]

No mention of the gout yet.

Nemmind, I'm sure it's not as bad as people say.

Fuck off, why do you think I can't have the offal. :pinch:

[Drew]

Fuck off, why do you think I can't have the offal. :pinch:Guy that works for me worked all day with a limp after a night on the piss.

Figured he'd broken his toe and didn't remember how... Nek minute, no more pork for that mofo.

[oneofsix]

Guy that works for me worked all day with a limp after a night on the piss.

Figured he'd broken his toe and didn't remember how... Nek minute, no more pork for that mofo.

Strange, pork doesn't worry me, unless possibly wild pork. Shell fish, tuna, beans and lentils (including peas and peanuts), offal, wild game (deer, rabbit etc), dark turkey meat. An all meat diet isn't good but generally muscle meat from domestic farmed animals is OK. Anything high in the protein purine which is turned into uric acid which then crystalises in the joints. Best treatment/preventative if its not too bad is plenty of water.

[scissorhands]

Co-incidence. The modern medecine-thing just took a little while to kick in.
Don't go upsetting all those gains by eating a healthy diet...

wot western medicine? the only meds I've had is the controversial green stuff everyone is considering


No mention of the gout yet.

Nemmind, I'm sure it's not as bad as people say.

I had a wee tiny bit in my big toe 2 yrs ago when I was a regular stout drinker, stopped the drinking and its gone

[oneofsix]

I had a wee tiny bit in my big toe 2 yrs ago when I was a regular stout drinker, stopped the drinking and its gone

Classic mistake. You haven't treated your gout per say but have allowed the liver a bit more space to process the purines. Drink doesn't cause gout, it is the other foods that cause but drink distracts the body from dealing with their purines.

[scissorhands]

I wouldn't go as far as cutting out cereals, after all the "domestication" of wild grasses was a significant milestone in human evolution and allowed us to become farmers rather than hunter-gatherers.

IMO it's the overly-processed and refined nature of the way we consume cereals that's the problem, and I certainly couldn't make it through 90 minutes of footy on a Saturday arvo without my big bowl of porridge (with salt and a knob of butter, rather than sugar or syrup) 2 hours before kick off.

yeah I thought about oats and highlanders appear quite well with their whiskies too

'full of oats', 'sew your wild oats', 'full of beans'
most paleo diets prohibit all grains and legumes, probably a step too far

But humans are one eyed idiot sheeple by default, and take doctrine to new heights of impassioned logicless rhetoric
extrapolating into the realms of bad science is typical of our species

Genotypes need be considered as well.
My Northern European ancestors ate meat based diets due to geography, [too cold:cold: for a good garden] whereas an equatorial breed had many more thousands of years of grain and fruit consumption than my direct ancestors

Neanderthal [me, big head and large chest] strains amongst the masses would be the ones to gain the most from a move away from carbs towards meat

Maori and pacific islander would benefit more than most neanderthal whities as their evolution toward agrarian diets is even more recent

Beyond all these individual considerations based on genotype, I'd say even the most agarian races are now eating too much carb and not enough meat

The large head and brain:innocent: is a product of a protein rich diet, as well as evolutionary advantage from brain power

[Road kill]

35... but AMAZINGLY they got none of the diseases that we associate with old age!!!!!!

They also didn't have the medical and social services of today.

Take away those two things from modern society and a lot of people wouldn't make 35.

I know I wouldn't of.

[oneofsix]

They also didn't have the medical and social services of today.

Take away those two things from modern society and a lot of people wouldn't make 35.

I know I wouldn't of.

Be careful there. Some of the latest digs have been raising questions over that assumption. They may not have had the drug companies turning it in to pills but they did have the druids, witches or whatever they chose to call them, that knew how to get the medicines out of the same plants and the "social services" of a tribe or village could be better and more individually targeted than today's blanket and accountant constrained "services". Live span was also quite possibly much longer than previously thought.

[scissorhands]

Be careful there. Some of the latest digs have been raising questions over that assumption. They may not have had the drug companies turning it in to pills but they did have the druids, witches or whatever they chose to call them, that knew how to get the medicines out of the same plants and the "social services" of a tribe or village could be better and more individually targeted than today's blanket and accountant constrained "services". Live span was also quite possibly much longer than previously thought.

Yes. The thing with history is that the victor gets to tell the story that everyone believes.

When Cookie sailed to NZ he wrote extensively about the handsome good health of the Maori. But they dropped like flies when that flu arrived...

Oh how times have changed, yet the Polynesian genotype is still structurally sounder than your average white breed.

I just now returned from a support group meeting for 'Lupus', mostly degenerated whitey genes amongst the punters, with an autistic leaning.

Many[all] disease sufferes are those with poor genes

Its all in the breeding dearies:yawn:

Bring in prenatal screening, recommendations and financial incentives to not breed. The only ones profiting are drug and medical companies. They might pay tax whilst they work, but the economy would be better off with just more offspring from the healthier parents.

No farmer would survive running a farm like this

Yet, with modern living eating into the human population, healthy parents are becoming harder to find....

The answer?? Bone broth soups!!

[scissorhands]

• Homemade meat or fish stock.

Meat and fish stocks provide building blocks for the rapidly growing cells of the gut lining and they have a soothing effect on any areas of inflammation in the gut. That is why they aid digestion and have been known for centuries as healing folk remedies for the digestive tract

Do not use commercially available soup stock granules or bouillon cubes, they are highly processed and are full of detrimental ingredients.

Chicken stock is particularly gentle on the stomach and is very good to start from. To make good meat stock you need joints, bones, a piece of meat on the bone, a whole chicken, giblets from chicken, goose or duck, whole pigeons, pheasants or other inexpensive meats. It is essential to use bones and joints, as they provide the healing substances, not so much the muscle meats.

Ask the butcher to cut in half the large tubular bones, so you can get the bone marrow out of them after cooking. Put the bones, joints and meats into a large pan and fill it up with water, add natural unprocessed salt to your taste at the beginning of cooking and about a teaspoon of black peppercorns, roughly crushed. Bring to boil, cover and simmer on a low heat for 2,5 - 3 hours.

You can make fish stock the same way using a whole fish or fish fins, bones and heads. After cooking take the bones and meats out and sieve the stock to remove small bones and pepper corns. Strip off all the soft tissues from the bones as best as you can to later add to soups or encourage your patient to eat all the soft tissues on the bones. Extract the bone marrow out of large tubular bones while they are still warm: to do that bang the bone on a thick wooden chopping board.

The gelatinous soft tissues around the bones and the bone marrow provide some of the best healing remedies for the gut lining and the immune system; your patient needs to consume them with every meal. Take off all the soft tissues from fish bones and heads and reserve for adding to soups later.

The meat or fish stock will keep well in the fridge for at least 7 days or it can be frozen. Keep giving your patient warm meat stock as a drink all day with his meals and between meals. Do not use microwaves for warming up the stock, use conventional stove (microwaves destroy food). It is very important for your patient to consume all the fat in the stock and off the bones as these fats are essential for the healing process.

[blackdog]

If you could turn that into paragraphs I might be inclined to read it.

Pressure cooker here FTW!

[Crasherfromwayback]

No mention of the gout yet.

Nemmind, I'm sure it's not as bad as people say.

Every bit and then worse Bro.

[scissorhands]

If you could turn that into paragraphs I might be inclined to read it.

Pressure cooker here FTW!

I thought the same too but forgot after the cut n paste... done!

from http://www.gutandpsychologysyndrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/gaps-introduction-diet.pdf


full site http://www.gutandpsychologysyndrome.com/

[scissorhands]

Most of my life I have been used to polishing off a big bag of crisps in 1/2 an hour, every couple of days or as comfort food when stressed.

After 1 week on this diet, I ate a bag of crisps last night. NEVER AGAIN!!!

I had an almost instant negative reaction, finished the bag, and continued to feel poorly till I went to bed 1 hour later.

This last 3 years, I have been waking 4am for a pee, often unable to return to sleep for 1-2hours, which has been very frustrating, so I would normally get up for a few hours then return to sleep at 6am. Last night was the first time in years I slept through

Last night I was in the dreamworld like forever, meet my old girlfriend, flew around the place [flapping my arms with a ladder on my back??] like a horny teenager, and spent what seemed like a whole weekend at a biker ish party with all these helpful spirits/characters offering me assistance.

The archetypes and characters contained within last nights dreamworld were of a spirit healing type and I woke afresh like never before.

As my previously dried out body is nourishing and repairing from the alimentary canal outward, the brain and other organs are regenerating in an extremely short space of time since beginning this bone broth regime.

My facial sinuses are excreting waste through the pores on my cheeks, I have some very odd spots appearing there... just go with it

With this cellular repair, my confidence, character and spirit is all improving.

Sexually, I have lifted my status immensely.

Those who dont want sex, or cannot get sex, should not have sex, as they are not able to conceive or parent well, both at a cellular and societal level. The offspring must live within the society so politics affects this dynamic which protects the offspring from exclusion


All this is changing for me!!!! PIGS FEET!!!

EVEN TYPING THIS OUT HAS BEEN HALF THE EFFORT IT USED TO BE, with fewer typos and errors to fix at the end

I wonder if the greens will promote this way of eating?:brick:

I'm over the moon and honestly cannot recommend bone broth highly enough. It has turned my life around

Cannabis smoking will dry out your body from the lungs outward. Either eat/drink it or make sure you eat bone broth to repair tissue harm caused by smoke harming your collagen rich lung tissue

[Banditbandit]

An all meat diet isn't good


Huh ?? I changed to a Vegan diet because they told me it would be healthy - but now you tell me it's not?

[oneofsix]

Huh ?? I changed to a Vegan diet because they told me it would be healthy - but now you tell me it's not?

sucker. What do you suppose those canine teeth are for? ripping oranges apart. Actually Eskimos used to survive on a basically an all meat diet now that you mention it. Vitamin C from the blubber instead of fruit and veg.

[scissorhands]

Huh ?? I changed to a Vegan diet because they told me it would be healthy - but now you tell me it's not?

An all 'something' diet is never good

Modern living places so much stress on our bodies, the bone broth diet is indicated even more now to combat pollution

Amino acids assists the liver in detoxifying

Even during a vege fast, consume gelatine with the vege soups. It will aide the cleanse

There is no thriving vegetarian or vegan country. Many vegetarian Indian children are malnourished, obese, deformed frames. The healthier ones are the Sikhs

Westerners who embrace vegetarianism usually do so for only some years. I know many living here in Grey Lynn.... FAIL

[Banditbandit]

I was trying to create a joke, clearly I was being too subtle ....

[scissorhands]

aspies are too literal thinking and dont get innuendo

[Tigadee]

Many current cultures like Chinese and Thai use bone broths nearly every day.

...and brothels for bones too.

Do bacon bones apply too? I make a mean bacon bone curry... Must make some pig's trotters stew soon.


Westerners who embrace vegetarianism usually do so for only some years. I know many living here in Grey Lynn.... FAIL

The ones I know eat too many lollies, as well as starchy foods (frequently chips and pasta). When I think vegetarian, I think tofu, beans, greens, and some portions of kumara, potatoes, etc. I have to say though, the most tasty vegetarian cuisine is the Indian version. That's probably the only version I'd consider eating daily if I turned vegetarian...

[Banditbandit]

aspies are too literal thinking and dont get innuendo

You weren't the only one who missed it .. or maybe it was because my own warped non-neurotypical view of the world is not shared by many others ..

[oneofsix]

You weren't the only one who missed it .. or maybe it was because my own warped non-neurotypical view of the world is not shared by many others ..

sometimes one doesn't expect their 'own warped non-neurotypical view' to be reflected by others

[scissorhands]

...and brothels for bones too.

Do bacon bones apply too? I make a mean bacon bone curry... Must make some pig's trotters stew soon.



The ones I know eat too many lollies, as well as starchy foods (frequently chips and pasta). When I think vegetarian, I think tofu, beans, greens, and some portions of kumara, potatoes, etc. I have to say though, the most tasty vegetarian cuisine is the Indian version. That's probably the only version I'd consider eating daily if I turned vegetarian...

Bacon bones sure are tasty, I put them in yesterdays pot which should last a few more days.

Pig issues are metabolic wastes due to inability to sweat, and factory farming conditions. Pigs have very large amounts of gelatine/collagen though, so for unwell peeps pig meat will get you on you feet quicker. Also pig meat is very similar to human flesh which may be beneficial as well. The Okinawian longevity diet is based around their national dish, pork and seaweed soup. Curing adds sodium and curing agents, which are probably not that good to eat all the time

Boiled whole chickens are usually recommended though for very unwell peeps as assimilation is the easiest of all the common meats. The pigeons around here get quite close sometimes:innocent: My friendly goose at Western Springs, Mario has been a bit annoying lately:innocent:

Nothing wrong with vegetarian meals, but after being semi-veg for the last couple of years now, I can not recommend being a vegetarian. My tendon issue and lung problems may never have transpired if I had kept up my long time favourite of lamb shanks in the crock pot. I developed a friendship with a vegan from The Daktory, 3 years back, and got the guilts from him a bit, and cut out most meat, as well as smoking a great deal more.

My health has deteriorated since that time, until last week.
Wifi zones and electronic shops became unbearable now the last six months, I have become electro-sensitive, though continuing computer use and more signal towers may be the prime mover rather than purely vegetarian lifestyle.

Also I spent much time in the CBD.
Not from now on though, health is precious, especially after my first disease state scare, which ended last week when I started on this Paleo Diet. Thanks cannabis clubs:angry2:

Most of the naturopaths at Grey Lynns long time health food store, are bone boilers, I just found out


You weren't the only one who missed it .. or maybe it was because my own warped non-neurotypical view of the world is not shared by many others ..

Yeah I was rushing about this morning.... seem to be able to more things at once now, brain is so much better.
Still very literal though.... unless I can devote time to analysing everything that is said.


Aspies have photographic memory's...

I remember a photo from about 2 years ago of your dinner [or was that puddytat??] lamb shanks and beans from your garden with mashed spuds?

I can see it now in my mind very vividly, yum yum

[slowpoke]

Most of my life I have been used to polishing off a big bag of crisps in 1/2 an hour, every couple of days or as comfort food when stressed.

After 1 week on this diet, I ate a bag of crisps last night. NEVER AGAIN!!!

I had an almost instant negative reaction, finished the bag, and continued to feel poorly till I went to bed 1 hour later.

etc

etc

All this is changing for me!!!! PIGS FEET!!!

EVEN TYPING THIS OUT HAS BEEN HALF THE EFFORT IT USED TO BE, with fewer typos and errors to fix at the end

I wonder if the greens will promote this way of eating?:brick:

I'm over the moon and honestly cannot recommend bone broth highly enough. It has turned my life around

Cannabis smoking will dry out your body from the lungs outward. Either eat/drink it or make sure you eat bone broth to repair tissue harm caused by smoke harming your collagen rich lung tissue

Dude the more I read of your thread the more I'm thinking you are in absolutely no position to be recommending any form of nutrition/health advice. You've had shit eating habits prior, now you've changed them, and VOILA: you've seen an improvement. But bloody hell, you could be eating a diet of Guinea Pig faeces on rice crackers and it would probably be an improvement.

From wiki: It is also unlikely that Paleolithic hunter-gatherers were affected by modern diseases of affluence and extended life such as Type 2 diabetes, coronary heart disease and cerebrovascular disease, because they ate mostly lean meats and plants and frequently engaged in intense physical activity, and because the average lifespan was shorter than the age of common-onset of these conditions.

So where's the talk of plants, vegetables and exercise? And do you really think the Paleo Bro's would be faffing around boiling up pig trotters every day when there's plenty of perfectly good flesh on offer? Seriously man, think about it.

Sorry mate, this a case of a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. You've noticed an improvemnt, good for you, but you are in no position to be advocating this diet for everyone when all you have experienced is 2 diverse parts of the food spectrum and somehow skipped simple healthy eating in the middle.

Here's a tip that won't sell any books or get a million hits on Youtube as the latest fad diet: eat healthy do moderate exercise. It's not rocket science.

[scissorhands]

Dude the more I read of your thread the more I'm thinking you are in absolutely no position to be recommending any form of nutrition/health advice. You've had shit eating habits prior, now you've changed them, and VOILA: you've seen an improvement. But bloody hell, you could be eating a diet of Guinea Pig faeces on rice crackers and it would probably be an improvement.

From wiki: It is also unlikely that Paleolithic hunter-gatherers were affected by modern diseases of affluence and extended life such as Type 2 diabetes, coronary heart disease and cerebrovascular disease, because they ate mostly lean meats and plants and frequently engaged in intense physical activity, and because the average lifespan was shorter than the age of common-onset of these conditions.

So where's the talk of plants, vegetables and exercise? And do you really think the Paleo Bro's would be faffing around boiling up pig trotters every day when there's plenty of perfectly good flesh on offer? Seriously man, think about it.

Sorry mate, this a case of a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. You've noticed an improvemnt, good for you, but you are in no position to be advocating this diet for everyone when all you have experienced is 2 diverse parts of the food spectrum and somehow skipped simple healthy eating in the middle.

Here's a tip that won't sell any books or get a million hits on Youtube as the latest fad diet: eat healthy do moderate exercise. It's not rocket science.

ooohhh.... goody:wacko:

How many people eat healthy? 50%? 10%?

Are you saying a move back to meals with boiled bones is a bad recommendation?

My soups have soup mix, onion garlic carrots cruciferous veges and leafy greens too....

The trotter is probably the most gelatinous cut of meat available, thats why I chose it for a controlled experiment.... coming from a semi vegetarian, smokers lifestyle.

I was surfing and skating almost everyday this last summer, walking 10km everyday last winter, till my tendon completely went a few months back.

Most athletes will struggle with tendon problems, most probably due to not enough gelatine for rebuild....

Doctors are still freaken useless, the food pyramid is wrong.
Go for a walk in the city and find some healthy older people....
1 in 30? I'm way healthier than most, Dude get a grip

[Tigadee]

Doctors are still freaken useless, the food pyramid is wrong.

I would mostly agree with you there!


Go for a walk in the city and find some healthy older people....
1 in 30? I'm way healthier than most, Dude get a grip

Now you've given yourself away! :lol:

Older people don't say 'dude'! You're obviously younger than you claim and posing as an older person! :laugh:

[Banditbandit]

sometimes one doesn't expect their 'own warped non-neurotypical view' to be reflected by others

Yeah ... I shouldn't expect people to get it ... but then ... I'm inclined to forget other people dont see the world like I do ... so Close enough for Government work I suppose ...

[Banditbandit]

Doctors are still freaken useless, the food pyramid is wrong.


Yeah .. I used to think there were only two food groups ... caffeine and nicotine ... and bugger I've given up one of those ...



cruciferous veges


Whoa DUDE .. you nail your vegetables to a tree??? That's just sick man ... Plant rights rule !!!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Some of the less expensive cuts are some of the best. People have forgotten how good bones, tripe, liver, kidney, heart, tongue, etc taste.

Thanks for this reminder OP. I will make my bone broth tonight...

beef cheeks are my favourite form of beef ..... mmmmmm

OP check this out:

http://kitchen72.com/index.php/2012/02/fried-pigs-head-terrine/

[mashman]

How can a hawt Dr be wrong? (http://undergroundwellness.com/top-5-reasons-why-bone-broth-is-the-bomb/)...

[slowpoke]

ooohhh.... goody:wacko:

How many people eat healthy? 50%? 10%?

Are you saying a move back to meals with boiled bones is a bad recommendation?

My soups have soup mix, onion garlic carrots cruciferous veges and leafy greens too....

The trotter is probably the most gelatinous cut of meat available, thats why I chose it for a controlled experiment.... coming from a semi vegetarian, smokers lifestyle.

I was surfing and skating almost everyday this last summer, walking 10km everyday last winter, till my tendon completely went a few months back.

Most athletes will struggle with tendon problems, most probably due to not enough gelatine for rebuild....

Doctors are still freaken useless, the food pyramid is wrong.
Go for a walk in the city and find some healthy older people....
1 in 30? I'm way healthier than most, Dude get a grip

So it's an experiment now? One where you found "firmer fingernails" after one week despite fingernails only growing at 3mm/month? http://health.howstuffworks.com/skin-care/nail-care/health/how-fast-do-nails-grow.htm And improved "kidney function"? What did you use for your home renal health analysis? A taste test?

Get a grip? I'm not the bloke advocating something I've only followed for a week and don't actually know a lot about. What you are prescribing isn't actually a Paleo Diet:

"Centered on commonly available modern foods, the "contemporary" Paleolithic diet consists mainly of fish, grass-fed pasture raised meats, eggs, vegetables, fruit, fungi, roots, and nuts, and excludes grains, legumes, dairy products, potatoes, refined salt, refined sugar, and processed oils"

.....so I'm guessing you'll be picking all the grains and beans out of that soup mix (which will leave you with nothing) and avoiding the potatoes.....and the salt/pepper seasoning....and the chunk of bread and butter on the side? Hmmm, I wonder what you are doing for breakfast? Cutting out tea and coffee as well?

I really don't care what you eat, it doesn't even sound that bad, but you are simply not in position to promote a diet to other people based on one week's experience. Nor are you in a position to use whatever information you've found on the net to contradict people who study this stuff for a living:

"A 2011 ranking by U.S. News & World Report, involving a panel of 22 experts, ranked the Paleo diet lowest of the 20 diets evaluated based on factors including health, weight-loss and ease of following.[29] These results were repeated in the 2012 survey, in which the diet tied with the Dukan diet for the lowest ranking out of 25 diets; U.S. News & World Report stated that their experts "took issue with the diet on every measure" wiki

But really this isn't about diet is it? I'm guessing this is your Asperger's "special interest" of the moment?

http://suite101.com/article/aspergers-syndrome-and-obsessions-and-special-interests-a251062

I'm not having a go at you, just trying to understand what's behind this new-found fascination and enthusiasm.

[Brett]

I'm afraid that simple mantra never actually worked with our complex bodies.... I can lend you a copy of "the Smarter Science of Slim" if you want a better explanation.....

Exactly. Calories are not the same, different foods effect metabolism in different ways. The calorie is just a stupid yard stick for food "energy" that was developed back when people did not have the scientific understanding/ability to further break food down and how our bodies react to it. The word "calorie" should be banned from our lives...it's misleading and calorie counting is not necessarily the correct way to achieve body goals. That's whether you want to gain OR lose weight.

[Brett]

For those looking for a very interesting wholistic body health read, try The 4 Hour Body by Tim Ferris. I have personally tried a few of the things that he has talked about and found that it conclusively worked for me. Don't like his 20min training routines though, I personally love a good body thrashing.

[Naki Rat]

Huh ?? I changed to a Vegan diet because they told me it would be healthy - but now you tell me it's not?

Check out The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/search?searchTerm=The+vegetarian+myth&search=Find+book) to find out about the real dangers of vege/veganism :eek5:

And for information that parallels the theme of this thread check out In Defence Of Food by Michael Pollan (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/search?searchTerm=in+defence+of+food&search=Find+book), and other books by him about diet.

Both books are very enlightening and interesting reads :niceone:

[Road kill]

...and brothels for bones too.

Do bacon bones apply too? I make a mean bacon bone curry... Must make some pig's trotters stew soon.



The ones I know eat too many lollies, as well as starchy foods (frequently chips and pasta). When I think vegetarian, I think tofu, beans, greens, and some portions of kumara, potatoes, etc. I have to say though, the most tasty vegetarian cuisine is the Indian version. That's probably the only version I'd consider eating daily if I turned vegetarian...

Bacon bones are a gift from god.

Try to keep it secret aye.;)

[mashman]

I R 42. For my entire life, well, for as long I can remember, I've been eating meat and chips/mash (some form of potato). A veggie passes my lips once a year, salad passes my lips in the form of lettuce once a month (used to be a lot less)... I've maintained the same weight for the last 17+ years. There is no reason that I should be the weight I am (108kgs) and I should be gasping for air everytime my arse leaves the couch due to my habit. I play 5's once a week and once up and running I walk off the other end in better condition than younger fitter men. 5 a day, bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa, that's a laugh. I'm supposed to have scurvy, but don't. I'm supposed to be unfit, which I am but not as much as I should be given diet and lack of exercise, the cardio Doc was pretty surprised at my normal blood pressure, I have a slightly elevate cholesterol but a lot lower than a few guys I know who eat well and exercise. It would seem that my body somehow gets what it needs. Figure that one out.

[scissorhands]

So it's an experiment now? ............... And improved "kidney function"? What did you use for your home renal health analysis? A taste test?

What you are prescribing isn't actually a Paleo Diet:



.....so I'm guessing you'll be picking all the grains and beans out of that soup mix (which will leave you with nothing) and avoiding the potatoes.....and the salt/pepper seasoning....and the chunk of bread and butter on the side? Hmmm, I wonder what you are doing for breakfast? Cutting out tea and coffee as well?.............

I really don't care what you eat, it doesn't even sound that bad, but you are simply not in position to promote a diet to other people based on one week's experience. Nor are you in a position to use whatever information you've found on the net to contradict people who study this stuff for a living:................


But really this isn't about diet is it? I'm guessing this is your Asperger's "special interest" of the moment? .................

http://suite101.com/article/aspergers-syndrome-and-obsessions-and-special-interests-a251062................
.
I'm not having a go at you, just trying to understand what's behind this new-found fascination and enthusiasm.

After smoking synthetic weed I have had weak kidneys. Possibly lung damage too
Not any more!

I'm not anal about diets, thats why I have lentils and barley....

Regarding paid experts telling me things- bah, i have heard some real bollox I can tell you, but that is a whole new thread....

Yes Its a special interest born of an inability of doctors to heal my sore tendons. No one really gave dietary recommendations, just stupid harmful pills. Even the physio and acupuncture peeps were fucking useless. Help initially came in the form of a Thai massage cutie who is an aspie too. She provided initial clues which I continued to research

this new-found fascination and enthusiasm??

This last few months:
I had to stop skateboarding and surfing due to tendonosis[doc said it was tendonitis....].
I developed an intolerance for sunlight and radiation from wireless and fluorescent lights, common with the autoimmune disorder lupus
I was waking every morning a 4am needing to pee, unable to sleep till 6am
I had sudden urges to urinate, poor flow, discolouration and other kidney function signs
My skin from the knee down was very dry as was the back of my hands


I suffered from dry hair throughout my life
I grew up backing onto the Penrose motorway, when leaded fuels were common
My dad fixed TV's at home and the house smelt of solder, and I was often near cathode tubes
My mum dished up ice cream or crisps every night after sausages, over boiled veges and spuds/rice/pasta

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I wanted to highlight how cellular degeneration can be repaired with collagen made from consuming megadoses of gelatine

I have stated prior that I consider this to be remedial actions, not a maintenance lifestyle

The impassioned rhetoric I spout is wholly due to

THE FUCKING AMAZING RESULTS SEEN IN A SHORT TIME

My kidneys were weak- GONE

My tendon would not repair- HALF REPAIRED NOW IN LESS THAN 1 WEEK

I was waking early-GONE

--------------------------------------

I never expected such definitive and profound repair in such a short space of time

Thanks for meeting me halfway, I can be too challenging in my manner, please forgive me...

I was frustrated by the lack of good care, and am now over the moon and full of pride for fixing myself as stated above.

I feel very very well.
-------------------------------------------------
Do not look at me, but take what is in my hand for you.
You will stay youthful through old age:yes:
Skin=collagen
Lungs=collagen
bones and teeth=collagen
brain=collagen
plus many many more bits

yes I have found a holy grail, and I am a raving religious nut job

[scissorhands]

Exactly. Calories are not the same, different foods effect metabolism in different ways. The calorie is just a stupid yard stick for food "energy" that was developed back when people did not have the scientific understanding/ability to further break food down and how our bodies react to it. The word "calorie" should be banned from our lives...it's misleading and calorie counting is not necessarily the correct way to achieve body goals. That's whether you want to gain OR lose weight.

My brain alone is more active, as well as in increase in general metabolic rate. However, any bowel spasticity has improved, a bit of a contradiction


Check out The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/search?searchTerm=The+vegetarian+myth&search=Find+book) to find out about the real dangers of vege/veganism :eek5:

And for information that parallels the theme of this thread check out In Defence Of Food by Michael Pollan (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/search?searchTerm=in+defence+of+food&search=Find+book), and other books by him about diet.

Both books are very enlightening and interesting reads :niceone:

Sir Paul McCartney was kind enough to bring vegetarianism to the west.... do you smell a rat too??


Bacon bones are a gift from god.

Try to keep it secret aye.;)

I'm paying too much at New World, but still cheaper than chips. The Waikaretu Rd has some good watercress I head.....:whistle:


I R 42. For my entire life, well, for as long I can remember, I've been eating meat and chips/mash (some form of potato). A veggie passes my lips once a year, salad passes my lips in the form of lettuce once a month (used to be a lot less)... I've maintained the same weight for the last 17+ years. There is no reason that I should be the weight I am (108kgs) and I should be gasping for air everytime my arse leaves the couch due to my habit. I play 5's once a week and once up and running I walk off the other end in better condition than younger fitter men. 5 a day, bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa, that's a laugh. I'm supposed to have scurvy, but don't. I'm supposed to be unfit, which I am but not as much as I should be given diet and lack of exercise, the cardio Doc was pretty surprised at my normal blood pressure, I have a slightly elevate cholesterol but a lot lower than a few guys I know who eat well and exercise. It would seem that my body somehow gets what it needs. Figure that one out.

A great deal is just genetics.
When I used to live in Aunt Madelines Herne Bay house with 2 buddies of mine[one was a nephew] for free rent.... she was married 5 times, 2 husbands died as she was a party animal. At 84 she was shagging this drunken street guy who was 65. They used to get boozed together every afternoon till he dropped:facepalm: like 2 earlier husbands

One quarter Fijian curly hair and big ears... Aunt Madeline, not you Mashy

[Road kill]

Even though my wife works in the butchery department at our local New World we get our bacon bones from Pokeno Bacon.

Their smoked bacon bones are in a league of their own.

Four pigs trotters at our NW will set you back the princely sum of about $1.

Most people buy em' for dog food,silly buggers.:facepalm:

[Tigadee]

Check out The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/search?searchTerm=The+vegetarian+myth&search=Find+book) to find out about the real dangers of vege/veganism

http://global3.memecdn.com/Gillian-McKeith-vs-Nigella-Lawson_o_97094.jpg

'Nuff said!

[Naki Rat]

Even though my wife works in the butchery department at our local New World we get our bacon bones from Pokeno Bacon.

Their smoked bacon bones are in a league of their own.

..........
There's a world of difference between traditionally made smoked bacon and the additive laiden crap that you mostly find in the supermarkets, both in terms of taste and health effects.

[neels]

So you smoked and ate crap for 2 years, now you have gone to the other extreme and claim that this is the reason for improved health.

Could it just be that if you had cut out the crap and moved to a normal diet you would have seen the same improvement?

Anyway, I agree completely about avoiding processed crap, start with raw meat and raw veges and you're off to a good start, regardless of the latest fashion health/cleansing/detox diet.

And the basic rule of losing weight is, wait for it, eat less and move more. Too simple for the majority who are looking for a magic bullet.

[bluninja]

Even though my wife works in the butchery department at our local New World we get our bacon bones from Pokeno Bacon.

Their smoked bacon bones are in a league of their own.

Four pigs trotters at our NW will set you back the princely sum of about $1.Most people buy em' for dog food,silly buggers.:facepalm:

I was getting 8 for $0.55 from Countdown...my dogs love them :) Though it does look like they are running round the garden with a babies torn off arm in their mouth at times.

[mashman]

A great deal is just genetics.
When I used to live in Aunt Madelines Herne Bay house with 2 buddies of mine[one was a nephew] for free rent.... she was married 5 times, 2 husbands died as she was a party animal. At 84 she was shagging this drunken street guy who was 65. They used to get boozed together every afternoon till he dropped:facepalm: like 2 earlier husbands

One quarter Fijian curly hair and big ears... Aunt Madeline, not you Mashy

Genetics... I'm fucked, heart attacks and high blood pressure everywhere... so I'm going out in a blase of mmmmmmm, fuck that's greasy :Punk:. The drinkers and smokers seem to last longer than those who quit... my great gran, 96, drank gin with a Dame Edna lookalike (they had the coolest booze cabinet, mirrors, cocktail shakers, millions of swizzle sticks etc...), and smoked like a chimney. Hope I got her genetics or this could be a relatively short trip :D

[bluninja]

And the basic rule of losing weight is, wait for it, eat less and move more. Too simple for the majority who are looking for a magic bullet.

Wow you worked that all out for yourself....and yet you are wrong at being right. This is the thinking that has spawned multi billion dollar industries but not stopped people getting obese despite the staggering number of people now working out at the gym with personal trainers and joining diet clubs.

Tell me, why do men and women (in gerneral) all get heavier and fatter as they pass middle age? Do they suddenly eat more? Do they stop exercising? Sure some do. Some may actually eat less and exercise more but still they become fatter and heavier.

It's possible to eat fewer calories and exercise more and remain fat!! You will of course lose weight but you will barely be able to move and will feel hunger pangs all the time.

The thing you seem to be missing is the effect of hormones on balancing the body; but keep thinking your simplistic but incorrect way if it works for you. Next you'll tell me you lean a bike over by hanging off the side instead of countersteering.

[scissorhands]

So you smoked and ate crap for 2 years, now you have gone to the other extreme and claim that this is the reason for improved health.

Could it just be that if you had cut out the crap and moved to a normal diet you would have seen the same improvement?

Anyway, I agree completely about avoiding processed crap, start with raw meat and raw veges and you're off to a good start, regardless of the latest fashion health/cleansing/detox diet.

And the basic rule of losing weight is, wait for it, eat less and move more. Too simple for the majority who are looking for a magic bullet.

I smoked afair bit yes, but ate well, albeit I did eat out. Every day I had salad a banana or 3, yoghurt, sough-dough breads.... In the last few years have not eaten fish and chips or burgers or pies more than I can count on 1 hand....

No I did not eat crap. The last 4 months I also ate Thai and Korean vege and meat rich meals 5 times a week.

I admit to smoking, being semi veg and never consuming meats cooked on the bone for some years. I also admit to being in wifi zones a great deal.....and growing up in a polluted environment thanks to my wonderful parents... but they didnt know better I suppose.

The synthetic cannabis may have more blame than anything else, but who knows??

Raw meat?? Raw veges?
Actually the longest lived people eat cooked foods. That raw food diet is bollox as it draws life force to digest raw foods compared to cooked food, as heat and added ingredients act as enzymes to help digest it for you. Like adding yoghurt to meat

Read about Okinawa, The Hunza and Equadors Vicabamba http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilcabamba,_Ecuador

Do some research next time

[neels]

Tell me, why do men and women (in gerneral) all get heavier and fatter as they pass middle age? Do they suddenly eat more? Do they stop exercising? Sure some do. Some may actually eat less and exercise more but still they become fatter and heavier.

It's possible to eat fewer calories and exercise more and remain fat!! You will of course lose weight but you will barely be able to move and will feel hunger pangs all the time.

The thing you seem to be missing is the effect of hormones on balancing the body; but keep thinking your simplistic but incorrect way if it works for you. Next you'll tell me you lean a bike over by hanging off the side instead of countersteering.
OK, seeing as you've bought in to the other end of the bullshit, I'll put it in different terms for you. Energy in = energy out = equilibrium. Increase or decrease one or the other = change.


I smoked afair bit yes, but ate well, albeit I did eat out. Every day I had salad a banana or 3, yoghurt, soughdough breads.... In the last few years have not eaten fish and chips or burgers or pies more than I can count on 1 hand....

No I did not eat crap. The last 4 months I also ate Thai and Korean vege and meat rich meals 5 times a week.

I admit to smoking, being semi veg and never consuming meats cooked on the bone for some years. I also admit to being in wifi zones a great deal.....and growing up in a polluted environment thanks to my wonderful parents... but they didnt know better I suppose.

The synthetic cannabis may have more blame than anything else, but who knows??

Raw meat?? Raw veges?
Actually the longest lived people eat cooked foods. That raw food diet is bollox as it draws life force to digest raw foods compared to cooked food, whereas heat helps digest it for you.

Do some research next time
Read it properly next time.

I said Start with raw meat and raw veges. Given that humans have been cooking their food for several thousand years it's probably reasonable to assume there has been some evolution in terms of digestion.

[scissorhands]

Energy in = energy out = equilibrium. Increase or decrease one or the other = change. .

Actually a doctor poster a couple of pages ago dismissed that simplistic thinking. The bone broth has increased my latent brain activity, which burns more cals just resting.

You should try it sometime

[Drew]

It's all a bunch, of hippy tree hugging CRAP!

[bluninja]

OK, seeing as you've bought in to the other end of the bullshit, I'll put it in different terms for you. Energy in = energy out = equilibrium. Increase or decrease one or the other = change.
1st law of thermodynamics is not applicable (law of conservation of energy).

Let me explain....why. You eat X calories, your body extracts Y calories and excretes Z unused calories. So you then say ...Fine....the Total calories extracted from the food you ingest must balance with the energy output of your body or the equilibrium will change. This is true, however it is totally possible (and proven in lab tests) that your body can destroy organs and muscle tissue for energy rather than extract the stored energy from the fat. So your bodies calorific value would remain unchanged, but you would still be fat as fuck.

Hence my statement that you are so wrong whilst being right.

I'm currently eating 50% more calories than 4 weeks ago, unchanged excercise and daily activity and yet I have lost 7.5 kgs whilst maintaining my water levels and reducing my fat % by 3% (wonderful technology in weighing scales these days). According to you I should be piling on the pounds but my results are the opposite.

I am certain that I will settle to a lower weight equilibrium but with much less fat. At that point I will have to upset the equilibrium if I wish to change my weight.

IF you were correct in your assertion that energy in - energy out = 0 = equilibrium then if you ate the right amount of calories in the form of vodka you would maintain your weight, assuming a balanced energy out.


Read it properly next time.

I said Start with raw meat and raw veges. Given that humans have been cooking their food for several thousand years it's probably reasonable to assume there has been some evolution in terms of digestion.

Wow...you believe that several thousand years of evolution is going to trump 25 million years? How long have Europeans been milking cows and drinking it, yet a large proportion of people ~61%) of african or asian heriatge have lactose intolerance cos they no longer produce the enzyme lactase in adulthood. I wonder f you fed them a diet of milk in excess of their daily calorific needs, would they gain weight?

[scissorhands]

It's all a bunch, of hippy tree hugging CRAP!

Who knows, one day the greenies may be promoting meat production over corn and spuds due to loss of topsoil....

[Drew]

Who knows, one day the greenies may be promoting meat production over corn and spuds due to loss of topsoil....

I hate hippies!

[Ocean1]

The food pyramid is wrong!

You just figured that out?


The U.S. Department of Agriculture's 1991 withdrawal of its Eating Right Pyramid food guide in response to pressure from meat and dairy producers was only the latest in a long series of industry attempts to influence federal dietary recommendations. Such attempts began when diet-related health problems in the United States shifted in prevalence from nutrient deficiencies to chronic diseases, and dietary advice shifted from "eat more" to "eat less." The Pyramid controversy focuses attention on the conflict between federal protection of the rights of food lobbyists to act in their own self-interest, and federal responsibility to promote the nutritional health of the public. Since 1977, for example, under pressure from meat producers, federal dietary advice has evolved from "decrease consumption of meat" to "have two or three (daily) servings." Thus, this recent incident also highlights the inherent conflict of interest in the Department of Agriculture's dual mandates to promote U.S. agricultural products and to advise the public about healthy food choices.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8375951

[scissorhands]

You just figured that out?



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8375951

I dont work for the meat board, honest! But yeah, very political and a ton of money at stake

As the world population increases, meat may be a luxury, unless you live in NZ:woohoo: or the countryside or coast

[Ocean1]

I dont work for the meat board, honest! But yeah, very political and a ton of money at stake

Used to be you never believed anything out of the US whatsoever, they invented lobbyism, it makes every truth a battle of the budgets, and they're not even slightly ashamed about it.

Unfortunately the rest of the world learned how that works, and now you can't believe anything, from anywhere.

At least we feel guilty about it.

[scissorhands]

Used to be you never believed anything out of the US whatsoever, they invented lobbyism, it makes every truth a battle of the budgets, and they're not even slightly ashamed about it.

Unfortunately the rest of the world learned how that works, and now you can't believe anything, from anywhere.

At least we feel guilty about it.

We can believe India gets maybe 1 medal at the Olympics.
I can believe my improved tendon, kidneys and sleeping right through

I can see the skin on the back of my hands tighten and wrinkles disappear.
I can feel my mood change and observe my clear happy more able mind to type and write with less effort

At least we have anecdotal personal experiences

And yet they try to take that away too:Pokey:

[Naki Rat]

Who knows, one day the greenies may be promoting meat production over corn and spuds due to loss of topsoil....
The wise ones already are ;) Part of Joel Salatin's interview here (http://youtu.be/C_MRYSA5q1E) goes into the soil generating capacity of livestock.

And both of the books I linked to earlier in this thread discuss in depth the damage that repeated cultivation of soil required for the growing of annual grasses (i.e. grains) causes to soil reserves.

[scissorhands]

The wise ones already are ;) Part of Joel Salatin's interview here (http://youtu.be/C_MRYSA5q1E) goes into the soil generating capacity of livestock.

And both of the books I linked to earlier in this thread discuss in depth the damage that repeated cultivation of soil required for the growing of annual grasses (i.e. grains) causes to soil reserves.

I checked those links thanks.

The Nile Delta contains all the topsoil from early Egyptian horticulture. I think thats why Egypt failed, they could no longer crop the ground they had used for thousands of years, as it had been all washed away by rains and blown away by winds. Rocky Mediterranean soils like in Italy and Greece were probably covered in rich soils. West Africa too. Now they can only grow figs, olives and goats

New Zealands advantage is its newness. The sea around Port Waikato is always brown compared to the minor runoff from small waitakere streams in Piha

Pukekohe is on limited time. Without crop rotation and fallow, the soils are so depleted now and will die without rest. Much of the siltification within the Port Waikato Delta is a response to lost soils.

Lost soils are a huge long term issue. Once its gone, its gone! And many millenia are required to replace them. Deforestation can be fixed so much easier than loss of soils

Even pasture can promote soil loss, as seen in erosion on steep hill sides like after Cyclone Bola. My Waikato farm is pushed up river silt, very steep but remarkable free draining and erosion resistant. Shame about the stock that roll down the hill sometimes... 100's of wild goats in the back paddocks

[Drew]

I can feel my mood change and observe my clear happy more able mind to type and write with less effort

So you're not an Aspie, you just weren't eating right?!

[scumdog]

It's all a bunch, of hippy tree hugging CRAP!

Ahhh, what would YOU know- you're only a boy...

[Banditbandit]

So you're not an Aspie, you just weren't eating right?!

Yeah ... Naa bro .. Scissor's current focus-come-fixation on diet is very typical of aspie's behaviour ... It'll probably wear off in about six months - when he fixates on something else ..

(I wont tell you what my current fixation is ... )

[scissorhands]

why wait six months when you do that now?

[scumdog]

Yeah ... Naa bro .. (I wont tell you what my current fixation is ... )

What's with all this 'Yeah...Naaa' shit you North Islanders do?

Can y'all just not make up you minds?:eek5:



Is it diet related??r

[Naki Rat]

I checked those links thanks.

The Nile Delta contains all the topsoil from early Egyptian horticulture. I think thats why Egypt failed, they could no longer crop the ground they had used for thousands of years, as it had been all washed away by rains and blown away by winds. Rocky Mediterranean soils like in Italy and Greece were probably covered in rich soils. West Africa too. Now they can only grow figs, olives and goats

New Zealands advantage is its newness. The sea around Port Waikato is always brown compared to the minor runoff from small waitakere streams in Piha

Pukekohe is on limited time. Without crop rotation and fallow, the soils are so depleted now and will die without rest. Much of the siltification within the Port Waikato Delta is a response to lost soils.

Lost soils are a huge long term issue. Once its gone, its gone! And many millenia are required to replace them. Deforestation can be fixed so much easier than loss of soils

Even pasture can promote soil loss, as seen in erosion on steep hill sides like after Cyclone Bola. My Waikato farm is pushed up river silt, very steep but remarkable free draining and erosion resistant. Shame about the stock that roll down the hill sometimes... 100's of wild goats in the back paddocks
Modern farming also has a weapon of mass destruction toward soils that past civilisations didn't; soluble nitrogen fertilisers! The rampant use of inputs such as urea is doing more for the decline in topsoil depth than most farmers' mechanical efforts.

Soil science 101: Nitrogen in highly soluble form stimulates the soil bacteria that consume the organic matter (humus) in soil. These are similar bacteria to those that heat and consume plant wastes during composting, so long as manure or other nitrogenous 'fuel' is present. The free nitrogen applied to pasture or crops results in (forced and nutritionally lacking) plant growth, but more importantly breaks down the humus and in doing so reduces topsoil volume (depth) and releases the carbon it has sequestered as CO2. Continued application of soluble fertilisers including nitrogenous ones reduce soil biological activity and generates shallow root depth, both of which promote erosion of soils as well as adversely effecting water holding quality (i.e. drainage, drought resistance).

Healthy soil is very capable of generating, storing (fixing) and supplying nitrogen. Our atmosphere is after all 78% nitrogen. But in the quest for ever more production from our farming systems nitrogenous fertilisers are used to 'mine' that nitrogen that is held in the soil with continually greater amounts of fertiliser being required to result in the same 'fix'. And that nitrogen fertiliser is mostly manufactured by way of an energy hungry process reliant on oil. Now, join the dots..... :thud:

Or better still let this guy (http://youtu.be/8Q1VnwcpW7E) explain the connection from soil to diet.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Used to be you never believed anything out of the US whatsoever, they invented lobbyism, it makes every truth a battle of the budgets, and they're not even slightly ashamed about it.

Unfortunately the rest of the world learned how that works, and now you can't believe anything, from anywhere.

At least we feel guilty about it.

I agree entirely. I have read some books about food and food production in the US and it is corrupt AS FUCK.

Then again look at Yrp. Horse meat in your pies anyone? Not that there is anything wrong with horse meat, but the punters need to know thats what they're eating. Having said that, a family size pie or whatever for 50 p? if it sounds too good to be true, its not true.

[mashman]

Yeah ... Naa bro .. Scissor's current focus-come-fixation on diet is very typical of aspie's behaviour ... It'll probably wear off in about six months - when he fixates on something else ..

(I wont tell you what my current fixation is ... )

Thank fuck there's a label for people who have multiple interests and once one interest reaches some form of conclusion it is replaced by another one. For a moment I thought human beings were made to have multiple interests instead of just one track minds... and being the inquisitive little fuckers they are only encourage that behaviour. I also used to think that those who focused on one thing for their entire life were just OCD morons. Thanks for setting the record straight, now it's best we tie them weird fuckers to a chair Clockwork Orange stylez.

(if it's about the end of the world, I really wanna know)

[Banditbandit]

What's with all this 'Yeah...Naaa' shit you North Islanders do?

Can y'all just not make up you minds?:eek5:





Yeah .. Naa bro .. it's a habit I picked up in Christchurch ...

[oneofsix]

Yeah .. Naa bro .. it's a habit I picked up in Christchurch ...

Head back there and they will shake it out of you

[scissorhands]

Thank fuck there's a label for people who have multiple interests and once one interest reaches some form of conclusion it is replaced by another one. For a moment I thought human beings were made to have multiple interests instead of just one track minds... and being the inquisitive little fuckers they are only encourage that behaviour. I also used to think that those who focused on one thing for their entire life were just OCD morons. Thanks for setting the record straight, now it's best we tie them weird fuckers to a chair Clockwork Orange stylez.

(if it's about the end of the world, I really wanna know)

WTF Mashy??? I been thinking about that movie all morning..what the fuck is going on? Biker party dreams now this??

So are we all the droogies and then who is Alex?
Are we all Alex?

“Oh it was gorgeousness and gorgeosity made flesh. The trombones crunched redgold under my bed, and behind my gulliver the trumpets three-wise silverflamed, and there by the door the timps rolling through my guts and out again crunched like candy thunder. Oh, it was wonder of wonders.
And then, a bird of like rarest spun heavenmetal, or like silvery wine flowing in a spaceship, gravity all nonsense now, came the violin solo above all the other strings, and those strings were like a cage of silk round my bed. Then flute and oboe bored, like worms of like platinum, into the thick thick toffee gold and silver.
I was in such bliss, my brothers.”

[scissorhands]

Tis not wise my brothers, to swim against the swirling current for too long, the weariness will descend upon gyrating arms, no longer to carry thee forwards sniffing the lovely of lovelies, for what we crave behind our veiled pleasantries and smiles -Scissors

' They don’t go into the cause of goodness, so why of the other shop? . . . Badness is of the self, the one, the you or me on our oddy knockies, and that self is made by old Bog or God and is his great pride and radosty. But the not-self cannot have the bad, meaning they of the government and the judges and the schools cannot allow the bad because they cannot allow the self. And is not our modern history, my brothers, the story of brave malenky selves fighting these big machines?'

[scissorhands]

(if it's about the end of the world, I really wanna know)

'And nor would he be able to stop his own son, brothers. And so it would itty on to like the end of the world, round and round and round, like some bolshy gigantic like chelloveck, like old Bog Himself (by courtesy of Korova Milkbar) turning and turning and turning a vonny grahzny orange in his gigantic rookers.'

[Tigadee]

No matter where you go, there you are - Buckaroo Banzai

[scissorhands]

Modern farming also has a weapon of mass destruction toward soils that past civilisations didn't; soluble nitrogen fertilisers! The rampant use of inputs such as urea is doing more for the decline in topsoil depth than most farmers' mechanical efforts.

Soil science 101: Nitrogen in highly soluble form stimulates the soil bacteria that consume the organic matter (humus) in soil. These are similar bacteria to those that heat and consume plant wastes during composting, so long as manure or other nitrogenous 'fuel' is present. The free nitrogen applied to pasture or crops results in (forced and nutritionally lacking) plant growth, but more importantly breaks down the humus and in doing so reduces topsoil volume (depth) and releases the carbon it has sequestered as CO2. Continued application of soluble fertilisers including nitrogenous ones reduce soil biological activity and generates shallow root depth, both of which promote erosion of soils as well as adversely effecting water holding quality (i.e. drainage, drought resistance).

Healthy soil is very capable of generating, storing (fixing) and supplying nitrogen. Our atmosphere is after all 78% nitrogen. But in the quest for ever more production from our farming systems nitrogenous fertilisers are used to 'mine' that nitrogen that is held in the soil with continually greater amounts of fertiliser being required to result in the same 'fix'. And that nitrogen fertiliser is mostly manufactured by way of an energy hungry process reliant on oil. Now, join the dots..... :thud:

Or better still let this guy (http://youtu.be/8Q1VnwcpW7E) explain the connection from soil to diet.

Sir Paul has got shares in oil?

[mashman]

Clockwork Orange quotes

I haven't seen it since my teens. Perhaps I need to revisit it in more of a conscious state :innocent:. Wonder who's letting off the KB dream bombs.


Tis not wise my brothers, to swim against the swirling current for too long, the weariness will descend upon gyrating arms, no longer to carry thee forwards sniffing the lovely of lovelies, for what we crave behind our veiled pleasantries and smiles -Scissors


Ain't that what boats are for?

[scumdog]

Yeah .. Naa bro .. it's a habit I picked up in Christchurch ...

Sounds like bulleffinshit to me...:oi-grr:

[Akzle]

Shame about the stock that roll down the hill sometimes... 100's of wild goats in the back paddocks

an sks that could sort that out of a quiet arvo... and a maybe-illegal-maybe-30 round mag...

[Akzle]

I agree entirely. I have read some books about food and food production in the US and it is corrupt AS FUCK.

an elephant eats over a tonne of food a day - that is provided, in nature, by god, whichever way you want to look at it.

how much human input does it take to generate a tonne of food?

and they call it progress...

[Virago]

an elephant eats over a tonne of food a day...

Utter bullshit as usual. Please provide evidence?

[scissorhands]

I haven't seen it since my teens. Perhaps I need to revisit it in more of a conscious state :innocent:. Wonder who's letting off the KB dream bombs.

All these old guys with white beards, and a crackhead towie keeping me honest.... bizarre as! I got A Clockwork Orange on vid, watched it 1 month back for the first time in years, its a great movie



an sks that could sort that out of a quiet arvo... and a maybe-illegal-maybe-30 round mag...

The tenant is an ex drover from east cape, his sons do rodeo in the states.... and his dogs round up the goats, and he worms them and fattens them for 3 weeks, gets good money for goat meat nowadays with all the Muslims. Easy $500 a day for maybe 10 days a year.

Someone released Sika, grew to 100 from 15 but DOC found out and culled them.

See for miles from the tops, saw an easy 100kg boar at 250meters last time I was there. Walked the coast from the waikato river toward Raglan and saw dozens of porkers having beach parties with their younguns. Running around on the sand like kiddies


I agree entirely. I have read some books about food and food production in the US and it is corrupt AS FUCK.

Then again look at Yrp. Horse meat in your pies anyone? Not that there is anything wrong with horse meat, but the punters need to know thats what they're eating. Having said that, a family size pie or whatever for 50 p? if it sounds too good to be true, its not true.

I've eaten monkey, rat and dog in Bali. The satay guys outside bars catch their own...
Have you seen what the Belgiums are doing with selective breeding?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmkj5gq1cQU

[Akzle]

Utter bullshit as usual. Please provide evidence?

google 'how much does an elephant eat'
let me knw how it goes.

[Virago]

google 'how much does an elephant eat'
let me knw how it goes.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+much+does+an+elephant+eat

Please explain where the "over a tonne" comes from?

[Madness]

Everything's bigger in Norfland.

[Virago]

ill dig out my old mag, just for you. They were being culled in africa because they ate so much. Afaik, the number was quoted as tonnage.

Ah, okay. Elephants eat 0.1 to 0.2 tonnes of food a day. Is that better?

[Ocean1]

I agree entirely. I have read some books about food and food production in the US and it is corrupt AS FUCK.

Then again look at Yrp. Horse meat in your pies anyone? Not that there is anything wrong with horse meat, but the punters need to know thats what they're eating. Having said that, a family size pie or whatever for 50 p? if it sounds too good to be true, its not true.

Aye. And the worst effect it to make everyone ask themselves "Who CAN we believe?"

[scissorhands]

You can always trust a policeman

[Akzle]

Ah, okay. Elephants eat 0.1 to 0.2 tonnes of food a day. Is that better?

hah!
i like your style, but no.

But even if it was yes, how much human resource is used to produce 1-200kg?

[scumdog]

an sks that could sort that out of a quiet arvo... and a maybe-illegal-maybe-30 round mag...

Shee-it, you a bad shot or a greedy hunter?

[mashman]

All these old guys with white beards, and a crackhead towie keeping me honest.... bizarre as! I got A Clockwork Orange on vid, watched it 1 month back for the first time in years, its a great movie

I saw it on bwue way for a tenner at the whorehouse... as I'm getting up bright and early to go there for the missuseseses birthdays cards in t mornin', I might treat myself and settle down to watch it after giving her her birfingday pressie tomorrow night ;)

[Akzle]

Shee-it, you a bad shot or a greedy hunter?

100 goats. Do you have any idea how long it takes to reload a 5 round floorplate mag 20 times?
Fuck that.

And no. Im quite a good shot.
Well,,
i could hit a cop with a slug gun at least... =P

[scissorhands]

leave my goats alone!
they are worth $4kg now!
we will prosecute!!

100 x 22kg x $4 = $8,800

you shoot, you pay:yes:

[Akzle]

leave my goats alone!
they are worth $4kg now!
we will prosecute!!

100 x 22kg x $4 = $8,800

you shoot, you pay:yes:

sell them up here dude. At least 130 each on the hook.

[scissorhands]

sell them up here dude. At least 130 each on the hook.


I'm quoting from a few years back. They are my tenants, he manages the numbers and offspring.

man, this gelatine thing just gets better and better:woohoo::woohoo:
all my gut flab has tightened up, I feel fucken great, woke early but straight back to sleep after a wee:woohoo::woohoo:

only downside is so far:
had some coffee and a few prunes and felt head spinny hypered-out for hours
its like I'm a virgin again with that sweet stuff and must reduce the dose
may as well give the shit up if it makes me feel uncomfortable like that

[Akzle]

had some coffee and a few prunes and felt head spinny hypered-out for hours
its like I'm a virgin again with that sweet stuff and must reduce the dose
may as well give the shit up if it makes me feel uncomfortable like that

dont blame the prunes for that. coffee is a fairly well accepted stimulant. the kind i make would paralyse small children.

prunes reminds me to tell you look into middle eastern shit, lots of honey, nuts, fruit and milk. (i assume you're not cutting out lactose?) and who doesn't like baklava?? (the only problem i have is that when i want something, i want it, and don't want to wait a day for it)

replace any white sugar with brown (raw/coffee crystal) type sugar. white sugar is bad. you'd probably have a similar experience with opiates, if you were after something recreational with a bit less come-down. (they act on the brain the same way, glucose and opium)

[slowpoke]

The drinkers and smokers seem to last longer than those who quit...

Excuse the pun but you are dead wrong:


"What are the long-term benefits of quitting smoking?

Quitting smoking reduces the risk of cancer and other diseases, such as heart disease and COPD, caused by smoking.

People who quit smoking, regardless of their age, are less likely than those who continue to smoke to die from smoking-related illness:

Quitting at age 30: Studies have shown that smokers who quit at about age 30 reduce their chance of dying prematurely from smoking-related diseases by more than 90 percent (18, 19).

Quitting at age 50: People who quit at about age 50 reduce their risk of dying prematurely by 50 percent compared with those who continue to smoke (19).

Quitting at age 60: Even people who quit at about age 60 or older live longer than those who continue to smoke" .


From : http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/cessation




I've eaten monkey, rat and dog in Bali.

Karma

[SMOKEU]

I know I wouldn't of.

Wouldn't have.

[scissorhands]

Excuse the pun but you are dead wrong:


[I]"What are the long-term benefits of quitting smoking?

Quitting smoking reduces the risk of cancer and other diseases, such as heart disease and COPD, caused by smoking.

People who quit smoking, regardless of their age, are less likely than those who continue to smoke to die from smoking-related illness:

Quitting at age 30: Studies have shown that smokers who quit at about age 30 reduce their chance of dying prematurely from smoking-related diseases by more than 90 percent (18, 19).

Quitting at age 50: People who quit at about age 50 reduce their risk of dying prematurely by 50 percent compared with those who continue to smoke (19).

[B]Quitting at age 60...

Even weed smoking aint [is not] not good. The wives tale that happy drinker smokers live a long time is often bollocks. But it does depend on VOLUMES TOO

Though credit where credit is due, being overweight is probably worse in many ways.

Dealing with an oral addiction is more complicated than just giving up smoking.

[scissorhands]

dont blame the prunes for that. coffee is a fairly well accepted stimulant. the kind i make would paralyse small children.

prunes reminds me to tell you look into middle eastern shit, lots of honey, nuts, fruit and milk. (i assume you're not cutting out lactose?) and who doesn't like baklava?? (the only problem i have is that when i want something, i want it, and don't want to wait a day for it)

replace any white sugar with brown (raw/coffee crystal) type sugar. white sugar is bad. you'd probably have a similar experience with opiates, if you were after something recreational with a bit less come-down. (they act on the brain the same way, glucose and opium)

Yeah naaa since getting on the gelatine my tolerance for sugar is way low. Sweet treats I used to enjoy leave me jaded and wired now. Maybe its something else like diabetes I dont know....

My alimentary canal is nearly repaired now. I shit only half as much, with twice the volume of poo's. No more rushing for a dump, and improved kidney and wee's as well.

Teeth are whiter, skin is younger, sleep is better, as are moods.

Cannot recommend bone broth soups highly enough

A downside is I have more body odour than before

[granstar]

SWSBO has done 6 months of eating only steamed veges ( no corn or peas), no fruit apart from tomatoes, no protein apart from protein shakes every 3rd day, and mainly tinned tomatoes with a variety of spices to make them interesting. Lost 30 kg with added exercise. Some way to go yet but she looks great i could marry her ...oh wait! Yes, she needs and understands to get back to normal foods with reduced amounts but the most amazing thing is attitude.
Because i''ve been eating a few meals similar iv'e ( and cholesterol) dropped 3 kg without trying. One stubborn woman that she is after a lifetime of failed expensive diets has gone down this path out of the blue by herself, it really is mind over matter (pun) me thinks. Smoking is the same, i was a heavy smoker one day 20 years ago i just tossed a half empty packet away and thankfully never touched another ...something triggered?
Some people struggle miserably with this stuff and good luck to those striving for a healthy longer living lifestyle so you can ride into the sunset in your 80's.

[Akzle]

Yeah naaa,

A downside is I have more body odour than before

less pork. Poultry and game. Rabbit, venison etc.

Fuctory pork is yuk.

[scissorhands]

less pork. Poultry and game. Rabbit, venison etc.

Fuctory pork is yuk.

Bit like urban humans? Specially those couscous eating, skinny arse whitey ones eh?

Fish heads might be the go seeing as I'm still city bound for a while longer.

....I've nearly overdone factory pork bones, too much of a 'frankenstein' thing... he he

Boiled some free range drumsticks recently, they were good


I have reached a remedial balancing point quite quickly, due to very high doses of gelatine....time to normalise the diet.... and reduce boiled bones, and quit factory farmed meats altogether.

There is a valid reason factory farmed cuts of meat like pork and chicken, are the cheapest meats available.

Next up, snapper fish head soup and boiled free range chicken soup:yes:

But overall my body needs less gelatine now, than when I began a couple weeks ago

[Akzle]

im not concerned about the fuken jelly.
Personally, fish heads get fed to the pigs, or the plants.

Couscous has fuckall nute value for me. Falafel is epic kebab.

I also do this thing called meat salad.
Basically cook meat (steak, snags, bacon, meatballs, stirfry/meat chips etc), as you do. Dice it. Chuck it in a bowl with bbq sauce. Eat with a fork and beer.
Fucking legendary.

Remember. Vegetables are what food eats.

[scissorhands]

heres [probably] why I'm now sensitive to sugar:

Gluconeogenesis (abbreviated GNG) is a metabolic pathway that results in the generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates such as pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, glucogenic amino acids, and odd-chain fatty acid.

It is one of the two main mechanisms humans and many other animals use to keep blood glucose levels from dropping too low (hypoglycemia). The other means of maintaining blood glucose levels is through the degradation of glycogen (glycogenolysis).[1]

Gluconeogenesis is a ubiquitous process, present in plants, animals, fungi, bacteria, and other microorganisms.[2] In vertebrates, gluconeogenesis takes place mainly in the liver and, to a lesser extent, in the cortex of kidneys. In ruminants, this tends to be a continuous process.[3] In many other animals, the process occurs during periods of fasting, starvation, low-carbohydrate diets, or intense exercise. The process is highly endergonic until ATP or GTP are utilized, effectively making the process exergonic. For example, the pathway leading from pyruvate to glucose-6-phosphate requires 4 molecules of ATP and 2 molecules of GTP. Gluconeogenesis is often associated with ketosis. Gluconeogenesis is also a target of therapy for type II diabetes, such as metformin, which inhibits glucose formation and stimulates glucose uptake by cells.[4] In ruminants, because metabolizable dietary carbohydrates tend to be metabolized by rumen organisms, gluconeogenesis occurs regardless of fasting, low-carbohydrate diets, exercise, etc.[5]

so there smarty pants



Skin and cartilaginous cuts of meat are very high in glycine and proline amino acids

muscle meats that are commonly consumed nowadays are very low in these aminos and high in tryptophan and somethings .. oh fuck just read this thing below i found http://www.holisticselfhealing.org/BoneBroths.html

BONE BROTHS

Meat and fish stocks have played a role in all traditional cuisines throughout human history, and their use as therapeutic agent dates back to the ancient Chinese.

Homemade broth is rich in calcium, magnesium, phosphorus and trace minerals, and contains glucosamine and chondroiton. The minerals in broth are easily absorbed by the body.

Bone broths can be considered for use in the following conditions:

Ulcers, inflammatory bowel disease, decreased immune system states, malnutrition, muscle wasting, bone and joint degeneration, infectious diseases, and many more!

Besides the exquisite flavor that bone broth imparts into any savory dish, it:
•Is full of minerals.
•Fortifies the immune system.
•Enhances digestion.
•Nourishes all body parts related to collagen. This means joints, tendons, ligaments, skin, mucus membranes, and bone.

Bone Broth Is Mineral Rich

Clearly, long-cooked broth made from bones will be rich in a dynamic array of minerals. Bone is, after all, highly mineralized. A well-made bone broth will give your body calcium, phosphorous, magnesium, sodium, potassium, sulfate, in a form that your body understands. In order to pull these precious minerals from the bone during cooking, add an acid, like apple cider vinegar, to the water before cooking.

How the Collagen in Bone Broth Heals the Gut
Bones, marrow, skin, tendons, ligaments, and the cartilage that sometimes accompanies a bone are all made of a protein molecule called collagen. Collagen contains two very special amino acids: proline and glycine.

Collagen has been found to help heal the lining of the gastrointestinal tract, which includes the stomach and the intestines. This means that heartburn or GERD (gastroesophageal reflux disease) and many of the conditions associated with intestinal inflammation can be helped with bone broth.

•Collagen and gelatin have been shown to benefit gastric ulcers.
•Proline is necessary for the formation of collagen.
•Glycine improves digestion by increasing gastric acid secretion.
•Glutamine, also found in bone broth, is important metabolic fuel for cells in the small intestine.

Besides collagen, cartilage contains something called glycosaminoglycans (GAGs). Studies have found an underlying deficiency of glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) in patients with Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis. Correcting a deficiency and helping to repair a compromised gut wall is another good reason to consume bone broth regularly.

Bone Broth Helps with Wrinkles, Stretch Marks, and Cellulite

Bone broth contains collagen to make your skin supple and radiant. This delicious, mineral-rich broth can be used to make soup to support smooth, strong skin and reduce cellulite.
Drinking bone broth makes skin supple. Cellulite does not arise from carrying excess fat. Haven’t you ever seen a thin person with cellulite? It is common. Most people are taught to choose skinless and boneless meat and to fear animal fats. This is why even those who are slender will not be able to shake cellulite until they change their diet.
•Cellulite comes from a lack of connective tissue.
•The smoothness of skin is from an abundance of connective tissue.
•Collagen-rich bone broth will supply your skin with the tools that it needs to support itself.
•Adding chicken feet, animal joints, and knuckles to a bone broth will increase the amount of collagen available.
Use Bone Broth with Your Next Fast
During a fast, the body receives little nourishment from food. Because of this, sometimes muscle tissue can break down.
•When glycine is consumed, this limits or prevents the breakdown of protein tissue, like muscle.
•Glycine is used for gluconeogenesis, which is when the liver makes sugar fuel for the body to burn in the absence of glucose.
•Glycine is also necessary to detoxify the body of chemicals. This is because glycine is a precursor amino acid for glutathione, which is a major antioxidant and detoxifying agent in the body.
•Glycine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. It has been shown to improve sleep, as well as boost memory and performance.

[scissorhands]

im not concerned about the fuken jelly.
Personally, fish heads get fed to the pigs, or the plants.

Couscous has fuckall nute value for me. Falafel is epic kebab.

I also do this thing called meat salad.
Basically cook meat (steak, snags, bacon, meatballs, stirfry/meat chips etc), as you do. Dice it. Chuck it in a bowl with bbq sauce. Eat with a fork and beer.
Fucking legendary.

Remember. Vegetables are what food eats.

dont knock fuken jelly man.... its present day omission is part of the scam

[granstar]

Bone Broth Care to add a tasty recipe?

[scissorhands]

Care to add a tasty recipe?

There are so many.

pea and ham bone soup is prolly a family favourite
even roast chicken or bone in roast meats
in the oven the bones will leech minerals and amino's into the meat

its too easy to cook a bone broth
buy bag of dog bones with some meat still on
boil [simmer] in pot for 2-3 hours
add 2 teaspoons of cider vinegar
helps leech goodies out

jelly beans, jubes, many baked goods have gelatine
gelato ice cream, sorbets[i think]
and mr whippy style icecreams like in maccas and burger king contain gelatine

the beauty about a whole chook is there are many bones and skin
skin is full of collagen goodies
never buy skinless/boneless breast again!
frying only allows a small amount of bone goodies to leech out
and higher temps of frying may destroy goodies

fish head soup/stock could be the ultimate....
add some vinegar
heads and frames
never buy fillet again
whole snapper in a long shallow pot in the oven with veges all round
cheaper and better!


as well as adding gelatinous meats
reducing sugars and carbs
is just as important
move from beer to spirits?
cut back on dairy
have days with no bread, rice or pasta
no more packaged cereals, muesli bars

I have a big bowl of bone and vege soup at least 2 x a day now

[Akzle]

o yea. Home made museki bars. Oats, brown sug. Honey, rasins, cashews macadamias.
Fkn good.

[scissorhands]

o yea. Home made museki bars. Oats, brown sug. Honey, rasins, cashews macadamias.
Fkn good.

yeah naaa... omit the sugar and honey and only eat as a treat now and then

I had a very natural oatie roll with nuts and seeds the other day and it flipped me out from the sweetness. Never used to, would eat treats all the time.

I've changed my reaction to sweets, due to the high gelatine diet

white crystals:

heroin
cocaine
speed
salt
sugar
trichomes

Sugar has been implicated in slow academic learning, hyperactivity and cruelty:nya: kids crave it... its a gateway drug:eek5:

[Akzle]

yeah naaa... omit the sugar and honey and only eat as a treat now and then

I had a very natural oatie roll with nuts and seeds the other day and it flipped me out from the sweetness. Never used to, would eat treats all the time.

I've changed my reaction to sweets, due to the high gelatine diet

white crystals:

heroin
cocaine
speed
salt
sugar
trichomes

Sugar has been implicated in slow academic learning, hyperactivity and cruelty:nya: kids crave it... its a gateway drug:eek5:

it is. Fat of the land, opiate of the morons. Whatevr.

brown/raw sugar. I dont touch the white death.

And honey is healthy as shit. Medicinal.
People need to give at least 2 fucks more about bees.

You should see if you cant get a script off your favourite quack for codeine, morphine, youd love it.

[scissorhands]

I live in the junkie capital of orks, Grey Lynn. Dated a girl who became a junkie
No thanks, I'd rather suck opium lollies

[Kickaha]

You should see if you cant get a script off your favourite quack for codeine, morphine, youd love it.
Unless you're one of the people who codeine doesn't work on

[scissorhands]

Obesity. Bloating. Bowel problems. Headaches. It's blamed for everything these days - so should you stop eating bread?

By Chloe Lambert
UPDATED: 01:18 GMT, 22 November 2011

Bread is often the food people crave the most..........:scratch::scratch:

From hot buttered toast to the simple sandwich, bread was once the staple of the British diet. But today it’s suffering from a serious image crisis — it’s become something of a health bogeyman, a food to be avoided and resisted.

Sales have been dropping since the Seventies. In 1974 the average Briton got through 2.2lb (1,029g) of bread a week, but now it’s 1½lb (700g).

Largely that’s because many people are now convinced they suffer from wheat intolerance or an allergy to gluten (the protein found in wheat).

A survey by the University of Portsmouth last year found that one in five British adults believes they are allergic to a food, with most blaming wheat.

Bread is being held responsible for a range of symptoms, including fatigue, stomach pain, bloating and headaches.

Meanwhile, low-carb diets such as Atkins and Dukan haven’t helped either — the claims that carbohydrates cause blood sugar levels to rise, preventing the body from burning fat, have put many off their lunchtime sandwich.

Yet despite this, bread is often the food people crave the most.

Ask any dieter to name their greatest weakness and it will be toast in the morning or that irresistible basket of warm rolls on the restaurant table.

But is it really so bad for us? And why has our relationship with this basic food become so dysfunctional? We talked to the experts.


More...

You DON'T have to be fat and over 40 to develop diabetes...and I'm proof
Scarred by cancer as a girl, Amy's dedicated her life to sparing others the same fate

YOUR BRAIN IS HOOKED ON BREAD

Sometimes only a bacon sarnie will do — but why exactly is that? The simple answer is that bread appears to make us feel better.

‘When carbohydrates such as bread are broken down to glucose, they trigger the production of the brain chemical serotonin, also known as the happy hormone,’ says Helen Bond, of the British Dietetic Association.

That’s why a toasted teacake or muffin tastes so good at teatime.

‘The body has a natural dip in serotonin levels around 4pm,’ she explains. ‘Bread is a great way to give yourself a bit of a boost.’


THE MODERN LOAF WE CAN’T STOMACH

For some experts the day it all went wrong was in 1961 when something called the Chorleywood Baking Process was introduced — this breadmaking technique uses three times as much yeast as before and so reduces the time needed for fermentation.

It means a loaf can be baked in just one hour, and also has a longer shelf life — as a result 76 per cent of the bread we eat today is made this way.

Unfortunately, critics say that this reduced fermentation time means yeasts have less time to be broken down and therefore could upset the delicate balance of bacteria in the gut, triggering digestive problems.

Jonathan Brostoff, professor of allergies at King’s College, London believes the so-called ‘one-hour loaf’ may have more yeast and additives left in, meaning more risk of irritation.

He is now looking at whether making breads in different ways affects the types of bacteria found in the gut and the impact on health.

Andrew Whitley, a baker with 30 years’ experience and author of the book Bread Matters, champions sourdough bread, which takes between ten and 24 hours to rise and doesn’t require bakers’ yeast.

‘Allowing bread to ferment this long ensures the proteins that make up the gluten are pre-digested so the stomach doesn’t have to work so hard,’ he says.

‘This has been proven in the lab and in feeding experiments. I see a lot of people who say they can eat my bread, but not factory bread.’

He adds that most modern bread contains enzymes and stabilisers known as processing aids to keep it ‘squidgy’ for longer.

‘These make the proteins harder to break down — we’ve engineered bread to be at its most indigestible.’


WE’RE NOT BUILT TO EAT SO MUCH
The average Brit gets through the equivalent of 60 loaves a year

The average Brit gets through the equivalent of 60 loaves a year

Toast for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch and rolls for snacks — no wonder the average Brit still gets through the equivalent of 60 loaves a year, despite the overall drop in consumption.

Some experts say our digestive systems can’t cope with so much — explaining the rise in complaints such as irritable bowel syndrome and bloating.

‘Gluten, a type of protein, makes bread what it is,’ explains Professor Peter Whorwell, a gastroenterologist at Wythenshawe Hospital in Manchester.

‘Yet gluten is a large molecule that’s poorly digested by the gut and we don’t break it down very well.’

We make things worse by eating far too much bread.

‘It’s become the number one convenience food,’ he says. ‘It’s everywhere, and that’s part of the problem.’

‘Think of our beginnings as hunter gatherers,’ adds Professor Brostoff.

‘We didn’t have wheat back then — we had meat, fish, fruit and vegetables. We weren’t really designed to eat all this wheat.’

Even if you limit yourself to one harmless-looking sandwich a day, you’re still likely to be eating more than you realise, says Catherine Collins, principal dietitian at St George’s Hospital in London.

‘Often bloating is nothing to do with wheat intolerance and everything to do with portion size,’ she says. ‘Ten years ago your average sandwich would be 60g of bread — two slices of 30g each.

Now, bread often weighs more like 40g a slice, and if you’re slightly sensitive, two of those can be enough to trigger symptoms such as bloating and tummy pain.

‘Paninis are deceptive too; they may look small, but actually contain a lot of bread, squashed down.’

What’s more, she adds, nowadays we often eat lunch on the go or at the desk — meaning it’s wolfed down too quickly and we feel stuffed afterwards.


EXOTIC HOLIDAYS MAKE THINGS WORSE

A variety of modern lifestyle habits — including exotic holidays — are leaving people with a permanent slightly raised level of sensitivity to gluten in foods like bread, says Professor Whorwell.

‘I see a lot of people who caught a tummy bug abroad which has left the gut more sensitive, so it can flare up again when they eat too much bread.

‘Any previous stomach bug, as well as foreign travel, and taking lots of medications such as antibiotics can all make our guts more sensitive.’

Bread’s large gluten molecules mean that this is one of the most likely foodstuffs to cause problems in a newly sensitive gut.


WHITE SLICED COULD BE GOOD FOR YOU

White bread is the loaf of choice for many Britons, taking up 50 per cent of all sales. But because it has a high glycaemic index (GI) there’s concern that it releases its energy too quickly, raising blood sugar levels and insulin.

Some researchers believe this could help fuel diabetes. A study by the Cancer Council of Australia which followed more than 36,000 people for four years found those who ate the most white bread were more than 30 per cent more likely to develop type-2 diabetes.

There is a suggestion that this surge in blood sugar and insulin levels could even fuel cancer cell growth.

A study published in the International Journal of Cancer in 2006 found those who eat five slices of white bread a day are almost twice as likely to develop the most common form of kidney cancer compared with those who have one and a half slices.

Meanwhile, wholegrain foods, including wholemeal bread, have been shown to have a protective effect because they regulate the production of insulin.

But wholegrain is not necessarily best for everyone. We’re often told we need plenty of fibre for a healthy bowel. In particular, a high-fibre diet has long been prescribed for irritable bowel syndrome, a chronic bowel disorder affecting some nine million Britons and causing pain and diarrhoea as well as constipation.

But Professor Whorwell, an expert in IBS, has different ideas. A study he carried out in the Nineties revealed that high-fibre foods such as bran, and wholemeal and granary breads actually worsened symptoms.

‘Fibre is an irritant laxative, meaning if you’ve got an already irritable bowel it will irritate it further,’ he says. ‘I often now put people with IBS on to white bread because it’s low in fibre, and 50 to 60 per cent of them improve.

‘Brown bread may be good for you if you have a normal healthy gut, but if it is sensitive you may have to balance the pros and cons depending on how bad it makes you feel.’


IT’S SPREADS THAT MAKE YOU FAT

Thanks to diets such as Dukan or Atkins, we tend to think of bread as ‘bad’ — under these regimens you either cut out or dramatically reduce your intake to help put the body into a state of ketosis in which it burns fat for energy.

But the tide may be turning. According to a new book, The Carb Lover’s Diet (which this year topped the New York Times bestsellers list) bread — specifically wholemeal — can actually help you lose weight.

‘Studies show that resistant starch can help curb cravings, control blood sugar levels and boost metabolism,’ say the authors.

Resistant starch is a compound found in wholemeal and rye breads as well as foods such as lentils, oats and potatoes. Unlike other foods it’s not absorbed into the bloodstream and instead is digested slowly — reportedly keeping you fuller for longer.

Dietitian Helen Bond says there could be some truth in this.

‘Resistant starch is digested in the large intestine, meaning it provides a slow steady release of fuel. Cut it out and you often find you’re flagging and more likely to crave a snack.’

Catherine Collins says that bread can also be a good source of vital nutrients such as calcium, adding that bread on its own is unlikely to cause significant weight gain.

‘The real problem is the high-fat things we eat with our bread. What about the slab of cheese in the middle of it, or the olive oil you dipped it in?’ she says.


IS FIBRE, NOT WHEAT, TO BLAME?

Half a million Britons are thought to have coeliac disease, an auto-immune condition where gluten causes the immune system to attack the lining of the small intestine — symptoms include diarrhoea, constipation and bloating.

Coeliac disease is diagnosed by taking a biopsy of the intestine or via blood tests. Sufferers must be strict in avoiding gluten.

This is different from so-called ‘gluten intolerance’, which is linked to IBS, headaches and mood swings.

The problem, say experts, is that people are self-diagnosing both conditions. In the case of gluten intolerance, Professor Whorwell thinks it could be the fibre in bread — not gluten — that’s the real problem if you have a sensitive gut.

‘A lot of people put themselves on gluten-free diets and claim it makes them feel better. But I don’t think they feel better from cutting out gluten, it’s the cutting out fibre.

‘And gluten-free products are now starting to add fibre, so in fact these people may find they’ll start to feel worse again and we’ll come full circle.’

More controversially, Professor Whorwell believes there is a ‘grey zone’ of people who may not have full-blown coeliac disease or even a wheat intolerance, but just have a degree of sensitivity.

‘To be diagnosed as coeliac you need to have a positive blood test, followed by a positive biopsy,’ he says.

‘But I have patients who don’t have either of these yet feel much better when they cut out gluten.

‘We can’t call them coeliac, but we have to believe them. It may be they are on the cusp of coeliac disease, or have very subtle changes to the gut that we just haven’t discovered yet.’

Sarah Sleet, chief executive of the charity Coeliac UK, says: ‘Increasingly, expert doctors are discussing patients who appear to experience gut problems but don’t give positive results for coeliac disease, and gluten sensitivity is being put under the spotlight as a possible cause.

‘What is not clear is when such patients cut out gluten and feel better, is it the gluten that is a problem or proteins in the wheat?

‘Whichever it is, coeliac disease is still massively under-diagnosed and it is essential that doctors should rule it out before assuming simple sensitivity.’


THE BENEFITS OF BAKING YOUR OWN
If bread causes you problems, you need to work out which type or types it is

If bread causes you problems, you need to work out which type or types it is

The experts agree that while there’s no need to assault your digestive system with wheat three times a day, our digestive systems are all different and if bread causes you problems, you need to work out which type or types it is — whether it’s all bread, high fibre wholemeal or artisan.

‘I have patients who feel better when they eat only sodabread,’ says Professor Brostoff.

‘But then I have some who need to cut out wheat completely.’

He suggests eliminating bread — and then adding each type back one by one to see how your body copes.

Andrew Whitley has a simpler and perhaps more appealing solution.

‘I call for a return to the simple pleasure of baking your own bread.

‘Bread’s got a bad name and it’s time to take back personal control of what goes into it.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2064447/Obesity-Bloating-Bowel-problems-Headaches-Its-blamed-days--stop-eating-bread.html#ixzz2WHGQbP1e

[Berries]

Sometimes only a bacon sarnie will do — but why exactly is that?
Because it is the food of the Gods.

[scissorhands]

Because it is the food of the Gods.

I had some bread a few hours ago, it gave me nausea, diarrhoea and fatigue. I have a similar reaction to some religious peeps

[Akzle]

Unless you're one of the people who codeine doesn't work on

yea. I hav an uncle like that. Unaffectd by tramadol, buzzes on codeine. (no, its not Ed!) whereas i function on codeine but tramadol.... Oo de lally.

I suspect it will affect him tho, since he buzzes on sugar.
Codeine =opium.(=heroin)

but ya, if you got de natural, way better for you...

[Akzle]

fuck bread. Get goofed on chocolate. (with alcohol, helps)

bread is lazy mans pastry.
Diet started as unprepared food, meat an veg, probably ad lib. Ie, im out hunting moose, stop to snack on vines, plants, honey etc.
Eventually, started cooking foods, but eating as a meal (twice daily and sup.)
then people wanted to have a fuken snack. Thus we were gifted beer. Which used to be more of a fermented broth-soup. Unfortunately, some cunt didnt invent the thermos for a few more centuries. So wifey started putting dryer broth into pastry cases. Thus the pie was born. Originally the pastry wasnt eaten, but thrown away once the contents were et.
Then some scottish prick decided to eat the pastry,and whiteys obsession with refined flour products came to be.
Since. Both pie and bread have been meat and veg in an easy to access format for sick white folk..

(the japs carried hibachis and lunch boxes of sushi, killed and ate things as they went.
Much stylier i rekn)

regency do a fkn nice steak and cheese. =)

[Berries]

I had some bread a few hours ago, it gave me nausea, diarrhoea and fatigue. I have a similar reaction to some religious peeps
I am truly sorry for you. Yesterday morning I had half a ciabatta with about eight slices of streaky bacon in it lavished with HP sauce. To be health conscious the bacon was grilled although I offset this by soaking the bread in the bacon fat and toasting it.

I don't get time for breakfast during the week, the only thing I get religious about is my weekend fix. The lard is coming out this morning.

[scissorhands]

I am truly sorry for you. Yesterday morning I had half a ciabatta with about eight slices of streaky bacon in it lavished with HP sauce. To be health conscious the bacon was grilled although I offset this by soaking the bread in the bacon fat and toasting it.

I don't get time for breakfast during the week, the only thing I get religious about is my weekend fix. The lard is coming out this morning.

Not all breads are bad, and the way you ate it... with fat... is a winner

The [long] article above describes the extra yeast and faster production times of modern commercial breads
The bread I ate last night was a crap bread.

Normally I only buy sourdoughs.... but even then I was eating it far too often, because I was lazy and dumb not worrying about the accumulation of effect... even on a sourdough or ciabiatta.... excess bread will create problems

Add to that my autistic Neanderthal snowline nordic thingy genotype, and bread should be a nono for me, except as a once or twice a week treat

And never the heavily yeasted cheap breads.

Greeks and the French always soaked their breads in cold pressed oils and fatty creams and milks. The Dutch smother bread in cheese

Food combining is important to foods that may promote allergy, as the fat will slow absorption of carbs