HiAce auto choke problem (Petrol NZ '95 2RZ engine carb not EFI)

[F5 Dave]

Well here I am in a bike forum asking for 4 wheeler help. But its ok, it is vital for hauling Roadrace, Dirtbikes & the occasional recalcitrant roadbike around.


You'd be surprised at the lack of info on NZ's favourite van. Some of the forums are hardly populated. I'm hoping there will be an actual mechanicy type chap with expertise in these old things. I'd risk taking it to the local garage, but I'm not sure I'd get anything more than experiments & hours clocked up. I need someone with some real life time on these things.

Ok here's my issue. I know sod all about how these car type things work, (I'm a bike guy & handy enough with a spanner), instead of an electronic control, or a good old cable they operated on a system of vacuums from various bits that connected to the carb to adjust the mixture or the idle speed it seems. Not what I'm used to.

Additionally there is an idle up on the power steering. Turn the wheel & the idle goes up. Except mine doesn't. I noticed there was a tube missing from the power steering. Compared to a mates' its just a vent with a tiny filter. Other tubes go to carb & operate the idle increase diaphragm thingy.

The main symptom is the idle speed was racing a bit when cold. You'd turn up at an intersection & it would be revving (say 1500 instead of 600rpm). Eventually when it got hot this usually goes back to normal, but its like its sticky.

As its got colder it can got the other way & stick off & it would be like driving with no choke. So now Ive got two symptoms depending on the roll of the dice.

Can't help but wonder about the P.steering issue or if its a red herring.

I've sprayed some WD40 on the linkages & stuff & sometimes you can see them move as I've sat & watched it get hot. Problem is it seems to behave whenever it thinks you're looking.

There seems to be two of these diaphragm thingys, one at either end, not sure what does what. Vacuum hoses for Africa. And this is an NZ new, no fancy emissions or Aircon options jobbie.

Any idea what gives trouble? Finding parts for these is surprisingly difficult for the Petrol engines, but if I knew what I'd want to replace or repair I'd be better armed.

[unstuck]

Does it have a bi metalic spring in a housing around the carb somewhere?

[FROSTY]

dave this is likely to be little help but my old van did the same thing. In the end the guys just disconnected the auto choke and fitted a manual friction choke for me that fixed it once and for all

[F5 Dave]

That yellow thing in the RH corner of the picture is the dip stick. Ask me about how to measure squish, compression ratio & suitable head shapes in racing 2 strokes & you might get a reasonably informed answer.

[F5 Dave]

dave this is likely to be little help but my old van did the same thing. In the end the guys just disconnected the auto choke and fitted a manual friction choke for me that fixed it once and for all

I actually considered that. But which one pulls what?

[unstuck]

Find the spindle that the choke flap is sitting in, then make up a wee lever/ arm to go on the spindle. then just run a manual cable in.:yes:

[FROSTY]

Dave the guy to talk to if he's still around is Motu. He was the genius who kept Lil toot alive.He knows a "fair bit" about those old carb setups.

[Akzle]

shoulda bought a mitsi.

May god help you bru'a

[bogan]

Its not one of those wax choke things is it? My L300 had one of those and it idled like a bag of cats thrown in a tumble dryer that was tumbling down some stairs; which is to say, not very well at all. Basically they just have a life expectancy of not quite as much as the engine, so manual choke conversion is the go there.

[scissorhands]

going to manual choke will save heaps in fuel costs too
raise resell value prolly

otherwise a [old boy at] toyota wrecker near you prolly has the good oil

[ducatilover]

It's a vac air bypass if it's the flavour carb I'm thinking of and should have a temp controlled choke on the primary side? Looks like that black POS in the top of the pic in the middle
If it is, clean the connections, remove it and clean the spring inside it, clean the choke plate and what not.
For the vac diaphragms the only thing that you can really do to them is spray some of that silicone shit in to them in the hope that it'll free it up, don't want to risk anything damaging the diaphragm (otherwise you'll have babies, that's what sex ed taught me)

It probably has a vac operated enrichment pump, separate to the accelerator pump, probably at the rear left of the carb


My real advice:
Cunts of things, throw it away and put a Weber on it.

[unstuck]

My real advice:
Cunts of things, throw it away and put a Weber on it.

Ya bogan. Good advice though.:2thumbsup But if it is only the choke playing up it would be cheaper and simpler to put a choke cable in. Check to make sure all those vacum hoses are on too.

[F5 Dave]

Silicone shit huh? Oh well might have to give it a try if it ever gets habitable outside for a'uman again. Might like to get some power back on here too. Cheers

[Ocean1]

My real advice:
Cunts of things, throw it away and put a Weber on it.

Had a 2L 4wd lite ace with a nest of vacuum tube snakes that looked pretty much like Dave's pic. I spent a couple of weekends on it trying to sort vacuum actuator issues... and ended up doing exactly that.

Sorta, it was a delorto.

[Motu]

Don't go to manual choke, they are a hideous piece of crap, probably American as the cheapest Chinese quality is far more advanced. Those diaphragms are the idle up, and the pull off - when the engine starts it will pull the choke flap back so the engine can get some air, otherwise it will just pump out black smoke and die. The choke will be a wax element, with a couple of small water hoses connected, these will probably be blocked so the wax thing gets no water to heat it up. It should do about 1500rpm when first started, then slowly wind down as it warms up - if it's stuck at 1500 then the choke is getting no water flow.

Pull those hoses off and blow some air through them. They will be hard to get off, the alloy pipes corroded and will probably break off or at least leak. Find out why car mechanics always fuck your car up for you - now you can do it too. Your van is over 10 years past it's use by date.

[F5 Dave]

Ahh the man. Ripper, I'll give that a try & try not to screw it up.

Hmm, that hose bottom left going into carb, will that be it?


Its just turned over 300,000k so its barely run in.

Had all the rust cut out & its going well. No chance of affording a newun anyways.


aww isn't she preetty

Thanks Motu, cynicism included;)

[F5 Dave]

Well I'm confuzeled again.

Here's the autochoke. Flap seems to move easily without binding (within its freeplay) over the course of fooling around a couple of hours the flap eventually closed the choke. So it has no coolant I can see but (note 2nd picture: reflection from GS1100 mirror) has a wire going to it. Also there is another diaphram thingy next to it. Not sure of its purpose.

[F5 Dave]

So then there is this little guy Another wire from same loom as the autochoke goes to this little thing. Not sure what it is but the hose from it was perished a small hole, so I cut it back & refitted it. Traced it to under the van. Maybe a drain, but pretty elaborate thingy.

[F5 Dave]

So at this stage I decided I wasn't sure what to do, so having repaired the hose I squirted some lube on outside linkages in blind optimism & changed the oil & fitted a seat cover (seat was ripping, don't smirk). By now the choke flap was fully closed.

This morning it was a bit cold blooded to start & kept stalling if I didn't have the foot a little on the gas so I warmed it up a little in the driveway before setting off. I'm thinking along with the auto choke there is also a additional idle-up in cold. Drove fine once underway.

[unstuck]

One looks like the fuel cut solenoid , the one next to the drain looking thingy, which looks like some kind of purge valve/tank for the emission control? Did you clean out the waterways in the auto choke housing? Sounds like a problem in thew choke curcuit , otherwise it probably wouldnt run ok when hot.

[unstuck]

The other photo at the top with the red wire going into it looks like the choke spring housing from that pic.

[F5 Dave]

So picture 1 is the autochoke & pic 2 is the back of the autochoke (reflected in mirror) with the wire going into it is what I thought.


Couldn't see anything with a water hose going into it.

[Motu]

Better pictures helps....one of the reasons why I seldom help people online. Now you got me pissed off.

So it's got an electric choke, not common on a late model carb, they were a thing of the '60's and '70's - they don't have a clue how hot the engine is, so will give full choke on a warm engine, not good for emissions so they stopped using them. It should close the choke flap cold, then check it has power, and that when it has power it will slowly open the flap as it warms up.

[blackdog]

Why fuck around?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/toyota/engines/auction-607258485.htm

Don't know the guy, just the first ad I pulled up. Shop around and kiss yer carb worries goodbye.

[ducatilover]

I can't see see pics because we ran out of interwebs here, but an extra bit with a wire would be an anti dieseling solenoid thingymabob.
Autochoke like that should be controlled by either a typical temp probe in the cooling system, the temp probe acts as, on inline with the earth in the circuit to control the closing of teh choke plates.
Or, unlikely as it's modernish, a temperature operated vacuum siwtchy thing :wacko: like all the old 'murkin stuffs I've played with.

Only other idle up type thing it'd need would be an enrichment pump, I don't think they ran an air bypass on them

So yeh, a twin choke Weber eh?

[F5 Dave]

Thanks BD the thing a van really needs is more power. Ok sometimes but not often. I've just been re shaping the chamber of an air cooled head that is getting a water jacket on my poor old 40s lathe with some ground tools. I can get my head around that, but this is doing me head in. Pun begrudgingly intended.

so I think the choke part is working, but there may be more that is supposed to be happening here. Just what I don't know.

[F5 Dave]

I can't see see pics because we ran out of interwebs here, but an extra bit with a wire would be an anti dieseling solenoid thingymabob.
Autochoke like that should be controlled by either a typical temp probe in the cooling system, the temp probe acts as, on inline with the earth in the circuit to control the closing of teh choke plates.
Or, unlikely as it's modernish, a temperature operated vacuum siwtchy thing :wacko: like all the old 'murkin stuffs I've played with.

Only other idle up type thing it'd need would be an enrichment pump, I don't think they ran an air bypass on them

So yeh, a twin choke Weber eh?
Ah thanks I think. Certainly don't want to spend any longer turning this into a project, I have enough bike ones I'm struggling to find time for.

[ducatilover]

Just disconnect the choke? Give it a few pumps before starting in the morning and let it warm up a wee bit.

[F5 Dave]

Well that's kinda what I'm doing if it doesn't start up revving enough, but I'm always running late for work plus the wife has to drive it on Saturdays so hard to instill the idea.

[ducatilover]

One thing I would check is the choke plates aren't binding on the bores, otherwise it'd be a job I'd have to look at
I'll sell you a fantastic hammer though

[F5 Dave]

. . .
Here's the autochoke. Flap seems to move easily without binding (within its freeplay) . . . .

well that answers that bit

[F5 Dave]

good grief, a new one for $200. just chances of it being the same, jetting being right & trying to fit it give me nightmares.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-replacement-carb-Carburettor-for-toyota-2rz-engine-aisan-style-carburetor-/221194119369?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33803268c9&vxp=mtr

[Paul in NZ]

Would you trust an asian guy that cant spell asian?

[F5 Dave]

yeah I did worry about that.

Its getting harder to drive in the cold.

That other doofer with the wire I'm told will be bimetalic control for the choke & those tiny pipes may have water in them. perhaps that is where Motu was suggesting to blow air through?

[Paul in NZ]

yeah I did worry about that.

Its getting harder to drive in the cold.

That other doofer with the wire I'm told will be bimetalic control for the choke & those tiny pipes may have water in them. perhaps that is where Motu was suggesting to blow air through?

Always good to blow a bit of air through a tube..... except if its oil, brakes or radiator.....

[F5 Dave]

or perhaps the vacuum hose, which is what I'm concerned about. Maybe I'll unplug a few & see if water pops out.

[unstuck]

Had one of those vans sitting outside my place too up until a couple of weeks ago. We couldnt find any parts for it down this way so he sold it to the scrap man. Mind you the shearers who had it for the last ten years had given it a pretty rough time.:crazy: I cant remember wether those carbs had water housings or not, I would suggest cleaning them out though as ealier suggested by motu. But sometimes you have to take the carb off anyway to get at them properly. You could try getting another bi-mettalic spring and see if that works. If it was mine I would just put a cable in and be done with it, But then Im not very patient.:2thumbsup

[unstuck]

Is it this carb, cos there is no water housings on these ones, choke is operated by the Bi spring heating up.

http://images.gasgoo.com/MiMgIzYyOTIwOTEwMA--/auto-part-auto-carburetor-carb-for-toyota-1y-2y-3y-4y-engine.jpg

[F5 Dave]

Well it kinda looks like that, idle speed adjuster is different. Did you look at the ebay one? more like that, but I wouldn't put a couple of hundy down as a bet.

So do we think that just having the flap closed is all that will happen when cold?

[F5 Dave]

well interesting development, I just thought I'd have a looksee at the choke flap before setting off home from work in 1/2 hr. Engine still a little warm from drive at lunchtime 3& bit hrs ago. Was revving a bit high when I got back.

Flap fully open. ok so autochoke flap not causing high revving seemingly. but perhaps flap should be closing off by now. I pushed it back a bit to see what it started like as its cold here so will know when I leave for home.

[scumdog]

OK, thread hi-jack - who can tell me how to adjust the carb on Norma Jeanes (the mrs) car so that it does not 'come off' to early?
Fires up good when cold (revs at about 2,000rpm though) but after two-three minutes the choke comes off - particularly if the throttle is pushed at all - and then while it will idle - it dies as soon as it is pulled into gear.
Starts up straight away after it dies and idles ok (mostly).
After 5-6 minutes all is good, car is a good runner and a comfy cruiser..

If you can get it moving all is good. (You can get it moving while it is still revving from choke working when first fired up, a few minutes later a different story)




The car is a 1983 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Brougham Holiday Coupe (Yes, really!) with a pushrod 3-litre V6 with two-barrel carb (FULLY rebuilt in the US last year) - A lot of the motor control is through a computer - i.e some of the choke control I suspect!!

Anybody got some advice on sorting the choke??

[unstuck]

Sounds to me like an linkage issue for the fast idle?? If it was a computer glitch, would there not be an engine check light on?

[F5 Dave]

Well there's something odd. I had a quick play today. Those metal hosepipes don't have any water in them. When it was cold this morn I pulled the cover &found the choke open. Poo. But when I started it up it closed. I cleaned up the connector in the loom

[unstuck]

Those bi-metalic springs do lose their tensile strength after awhile. Maybe time for a new spring, but probably easier to hook a cable up.:yes:

[ducatilover]

Have you topped the coolant up with the front of the van raised? (still on dial up speed, so I'm assuming the pipes are higher than the rad filler?)
Are all the linkages spotless, clean springs and lubed?

[unstuck]

Have you topped the coolant up with the front of the van raised? (still on dial up speed, so I'm assuming the pipes are higher than the rad filler?)
Are all the linkages spotless, clean springs and lubed?

Nah, I think they are lower in those ones, maybe just airlocked ya reckon. There is a bleed bolt next to the thermostat housing I think???

[ducatilover]

Nah, I think they are lower in those ones, maybe just airlocked ya reckon. There is a bleed bolt next to the thermostat housing I think???

Hit it with a hammer

[F5 Dave]

Well I worked out 2 of them went to the dizzy so there ain't no water in those suckers. Certainly lubed to heck.

[unstuck]

Hit it with a hammer

I had an old 85 Hiace van that had a carb with auto choke that was a real pain in the arse, so I pulled it off and ran it over with a 30 ton cat digger.:2thumbsup Replaced it with a manual choked carb off a cressida. Was all good after that, until the wife found a fencepost on the side of the road at 80+kph.:mad::angry2:

[unstuck]

Well I worked out 2 of them went to the dizzy so there ain't no water in those suckers. Certainly lubed to heck.

I dont think it has water passages mate, not if it has an electric spring. My money is on the spring losing its heat up properties.:yes:

[F5 Dave]

surprisingly hard to find parts, but must pop into local Toyo Commercial wrecker & see what they have again. Just wasn't sure what I needed.


So why isn't my idle up working when I turn the steering?

[unstuck]

surprisingly hard to find parts, but must pop into local Toyo Commercial wrecker & see what they have again. Just wasn't sure what I needed.


So why isn't my idle up working when I turn the steering?

Depends how it is operated, my guess would be vacum pressure?? You will have to find the diaphram that operates it if that is the case and make sure it is working correctly.

[F5 Dave]

As a quick follow up I went to see a mate, ex mech with same van & he helped me adjust the idle up on pwr steering and the fast idle on the carb, which was also sticking. There's like a bob weight that pulls flap etc open after electric bit turns off. Crazy stuff, but he figured it would need another tweak to get it perfect. So far it's a big improvement, but i need to turn the choke back on a bit when it's real cold so I'll have another play.

bit step was taking the pass seat right out so we could get to see everything.

[ducatilover]

Glad to hear you're getting it sorted mate

[unstuck]

Good to hear. the old manual choke had alot going for it really, too simple I suppose like a lot of stuff these days.:wacko:

[F5 Dave]

Yeah had it on my old C20, but maybe Toymotor wanted to be more civilised. This car stuff is still alien to me.

[Ocean1]

Yeah had it on my old C20, but maybe Toymotor wanted to be more civilised.

God help me if my electric curtains start playing up...

[F5 Dave]

I know a blind man:laugh:

[jasonu]

surprisingly hard to find parts, but must pop into local Toyo Commercial wrecker & see what they have again. Just wasn't sure what I needed.


So why isn't my idle up working when I turn the steering?

Did you check the kerfuffler valve and does it have a red or green powerband?;):confused:

[F5 Dave]

Did you check the kerfuffler valve . . . :confused:yeah and there was a small fury rodent stuffed in it:nono:

[F5 Dave]

As last planned follow up; there haven't been particularly cold mornings in last couple of weeks but since I tweaked the choke back a touch the van has run just mint.

Thanks to my mate Andrew; Legend!

[unstuck]

Result.:2thumbsup

[F5 Dave]

Thread dredge. And we're back.

As of late its been getting bitchy when cold, but when applying throttle.

Like accelerator pump perhaps. Should I see it squirt when trying the throttle cable? Rebuild how?

[ducatilover]

Put a fuckin webber on the damn thing already