Chroming exhaust pipes?

[jellywrestler]

I'm about to get a set of pipes re chromed but they need a bit of work before hand. Basically normal chrome work has a copper base problem is the copper will bubble on a exhaust pipe so what other metal applications do people use to fill in any pits etc????

[Akzle]

steel. Powder weld gas torch.

[Grumph]

He's right - in an ideal world.

You need to have them/it dechromed first so while you're there talk to the platers/polishers and see what they say.

Depends how much use the bike will get too, for low mileage veterans I've seen bronze used quite satisfactorily.

[unstuck]

Give this a wee perusal.......http://www.classickawasaki.com/plating.htm



This is the time consuming and expensive part: polish away all the rust and imperfections until the item to be chromed is so highly polished that it looks like it is already chromed! Each one of those small rust spots on the item will double or treble in size as the acid eats away the corrosion. These blemishes then have to be totally erased in the polishing process – the very worst cases would require “triple plating” this process involves polishing the metal, plating it in thicker copper, polishing the copper and then plating again with chrome.

[Drew]

I'm about to get a set of pipes re chromed but they need a bit of work before hand. Basically normal chrome work has a copper base problem is the copper will bubble on a exhaust pipe so what other metal applications do people use to fill in any pits etc????

Are these the Roberts chopper pipes bro?

Would you be better off having another set made with nice new steel first?

[jellywrestler]

He's right - in an ideal world.

You need to have them/it dechromed first so while you're there talk to the platers/polishers and see what they say.

well past that stage they've been stripped and repaired problem is it's one thing talking to platers it's another talking to them in the flesh with the goods in your hand, they're all over the country...

[jellywrestler]

Are these the Roberts chopper pipes bro?

Would you be better off having another set made with nice new steel first?

love to but steve himself said it was the hardest job he's done and not keen to go there again....

[Drew]

love to but steve himself said it was the hardest job he's done and not keen to go there again....
I don't doubt Steve's knowledge of how hard it is. But lets not forget, he did it without computer modeling.

Someone like young Sketchy could model it up, to give exact templates for each piece of sheet I expect.

[Grumph]

well past that stage they've been stripped and repaired problem is it's one thing talking to platers it's another talking to them in the flesh with the goods in your hand, they're all over the country...

No good ones left in the lower NI ?

i see a road trip in your future.....

Locally, the guys in Geraldine have a very good rep and I've heard of them doing pitting removal too.

[AllanB]

Triple chrome plating refers to a base of copper, nickel then chrome over top. The longer each process is plated the superior the thickness. I am unaware of any chrome process that deleted the copper first coating. I knew a chromer through a previous job - he is out of that business now but it was bloody handy!

A avenue to try is to contact a local rod club or two - they will be able to recommend a decent chrome company.

A alternative is ceramic coating - they have a chrome like coating now that looks really good. Only weird thing is that it does not colour at all so there is no yellowing or blueing at the ports - looks almost unatural! HP Coatings do this in NZ, web link is down when I searched.

[98tls]

Triple chrome plating refers to a base of copper, nickel then chrome over top. The longer each process is plated the superior the thickness. I am unaware of any chrome process that deleted the copper first coating. I knew a chromer through a previous job - he is out of that business now but it was bloody handy!

A avenue to try is to contact a local rod club or two - they will be able to recommend a decent chrome company.

A alternative is ceramic coating - they have a chrome like coating now that looks really good. Only weird thing is that it does not colour at all so there is no yellowing or blueing at the ports - looks almost unatural! HP Coatings do this in NZ, web link is down when I searched.

+1 on HP coatings,bloke up in Auckland just finished a beautiful fighter style TLS and used them on his Zorst,looks brillant though if your looking for a classic chrome i wouldnt,just not the same.

[jellywrestler]

Triple chrome plating refers to a base of copper, nickel then chrome over top. The longer each process is plated the superior the thickness. I am unaware of any chrome process that deleted the copper first coating. I knew a chromer through a previous job - he is out of that business now but it was bloody handy!

A avenue to try is to contact a local rod club or two - they will be able to recommend a decent chrome company.

A alternative is ceramic coating - they have a chrome like coating now that looks really good. Only weird thing is that it does not colour at all so there is no yellowing or blueing at the ports - looks almost unatural! HP Coatings do this in NZ, web link is down when I searched.

problem is the copper fill will end up bubbling and knacker the chrome. not keen at all on HP coatings it's a work of art and needs the chrome to finish it off to how it was in it's heyday

[BIG DOUG]

What was that spyda,a chopper is a work of art.well well who'd thought.

[Drew]

What was that spyda,a chopper is a work of art.well well who'd thought.
Steve Roberts built, monocoque GS1000 chopper. The thing is beyond belief!

Not like some off the shelf bitsa, chucked together over a couple weeks like most of what's around these days.

[AllanB]

Good chrome will cope with the heat - used to years back in the day and Triumph still run it on their bonnies with single wall headers - it will blue to buggery as it gets hot though. I personally like that look - the bluer it is the harder you have been riding!!!!


Phone these chaps - looks like they have experience. Post if they have a copper alternative.

http://www.classicchrome.co.nz/

[BIG DOUG]

Oh yea I just "CHUCK" my custom bikes together,cause Its real easy.

[jellywrestler]

Good chrome will cope with the heat - used to years back in the day and Triumph still run it on their bonnies with single wall headers - it will blue to buggery as it gets hot though. I personally like that look - the bluer it is the harder you have been riding!!!!


Phone these chaps - looks like they have experience. Post if they have a copper alternative.

http://www.classicchrome.co.nz/
that maybe the case on brand new pipes with a thou or so of copperflashing, this has seen thirty years on a bike so some of the pits are quite deep.

[Grumph]

that maybe the case on brand new pipes with a thou or so of copperflashing, this has seen thirty years on a bike so some of the pits are quite deep.

What gauge were they made from originally ? 16G is marginal for metalspraying and anything thinner, forget it.
IMO you may just have to face up to gas welding a heap of pits followed by file/linish and pro polish.

Remember, you'll only do it once.....

[imdying]

Oh yea I just "CHUCK" my custom bikes together,cause Its real easy.I think he means the choppers you see on the tele... tank from here, guard from there, engine from over there etc etc

[Drew]

Oh yea I just "CHUCK" my custom bikes together,cause Its real easy.:calm:


I think he means the choppers you see on the tele... tank from here, guard from there, engine from over there etc etcThis guy gets it.

[jonbuoy]

Would ceramic coating the inside of the pipe help - I know they say a full ceramic coat inside and out can drop the surface temperature up to 50% not sure what the drop would be just coating the inside of the header?

[jellywrestler]

Would ceramic coating the inside of the pipe help - I know they say a full ceramic coat inside and out can drop the surface temperature up to 50% not sure what the drop would be just coating the inside of the header?

now there's some thinking, just wondering about how it will coat on an old rusty surface...

[F5 Dave]

Before they put it on they blast it a bit to aid adhesion. I stripped the HPC coating off some pipes & found they needed a bit of a sand before I sprayed them. Not sure how they would do the inside. Also not sure how well it would hold onto inside of square pipes, if you ran the blaster down there, you'd miss heaps.

They will need a severe acid to remove the rust & old chrome, that will leave a depressing surface. From there I guess its hard work, but probably your only option.

[AllanB]

One could always make a new set I guess - fresh metal to chrome.

[Kickaha]

One could always make a new set I guess - fresh metal to chrome.

Might be harder than you think, have you seen the pipes he's talking about?

[Drew]

One could always make a new set I guess - fresh metal to chrome.


Might be harder than you think, have you seen the pipes he's talking about?I suggested the same. I have seen the pipes, and Steve Roberts himself said it was the biggest job he'd ever done (or words to that effect).

All made out of flat steel, insane! But modeling the pieces first would reduce the work by half.

[motogpwerks Chris]

Most chromers won't touch a used set off pipes as the carbon from the pipes will contaminate there baths.Mt Eden electroplaters were good and used triple chrome since they did alot off bumpers back in the day.Till they are completely stripped and all rust removed to inspect if they are recoverable.
Best is to give the pipes to a Good radiator shop for them to cook out the rust and carbon build up and then see where you stand and to see if you have a good amount off metal to play with.
Im sure there is someone local that has a mandrel bender that can laser measure them and bend them up pretty cheap.
Building pipes aren't that hard once you've done a few here is what i finished on monday a 6-1 cbx in stainless

[F5 Dave]

that looks nice. real nice.

But how many have you made using square tube? Why would you? Well that's kinda the point:confused:

[motogpwerks Chris]

Well if it is square thats even easier as you could just find someone with a rotary draw pipe bender there must be plenty off these units around and will give a nice bend.
Early years off indy cars (cosworth) they tried square headers to squeeze the shape off the exhaust wave but it never took off.

[Drew]

that looks nice. real nice.

But how many have you made using square tube? Why would you? Well that's kinda the point:confused:


Well if it is square thats even easier as you could just find someone with a rotary draw pipe bender there must be plenty off these units around and will give a nice bend.
Early years off indy cars (cosworth) they tried square headers to squeeze the shape off the exhaust wave but it never took off.

The original pipes were made from sheet, and made by hand quite painstakingly I imagine. But aesthetically they would look the same to make new ones the way described.

You know about this Spyda?

[jellywrestler]

The original pipes were made from sheet, and made by hand quite painstakingly I imagine. But aesthetically they would look the same to make new ones the way described.

You know about this Spyda?

old mcdonald had dyslexia eiiue

[AllanB]

I do remember seeing square forks on a chopper years back.

[actungbaby]

I'm about to get a set of pipes re chromed but they need a bit of work before hand. Basically normal chrome work has a copper base problem is the copper will bubble on a exhaust pipe so what other metal applications do people use to fill in any pits etc????

having copper is nothing to do with bubbling thats cause by improper prepartion of the steel before hand.

i did chrome plating will very good company in chch in 80.s

My old boss vic said copper was waste time before hand .

We only nickle plated then i chrome plated 1 min of that 20 + of the nickel .

Nickel is very expesive to buy brought in 20 kg tims like little nuggets .

cheap skates probley flash copper plated then nickel plated then chrome.

TO get great finish its always how well the stell is poilished first with course

Belt then with fine one.. thats it ..u got pits the nickel only show them up

more.. di cast is the worst we call it shit metal . alot car parts where

made of this poor quilty it often bubble ..chrome by itself looks like

Grey mess like zinc plating .. its coating of nickel gives its shine.. chrome

is a cover . think its porus though not sure on that..

If you look carfully on chrome plated iten around any holes gaps, you hold to l

light , u see brown tinge thats nickle coating chrome is lazy, its electroplating.

U have postive and negtive and object is submerged in solution.

and attracts it to the metal .. chrome plating is chromuin solotuion orange.

With lead chromium bars . with nickel plating you have bags with nickel

chips and, is filtered very finally to take out any imperities .

so as chrome plater i just have to esimate how much current to use

for size the piece or item to much u burn it much burn it on edges..fixed with polishing. you dont want do that as extra work for nickle platers ;-)

to little and wont trow well enough and you get the tarnish looked over time

the brown tinge around any gaps holes etc. id di thounds of russle hops kettles

still remember 200 amps each or 400 for two..i was always last to finsish grrr

and go home boss be wating patiently .. got covers on yet pat opps..

good days paid well too best paying job ever had . brought lots new hondas.

[actungbaby]

Give this a wee perusal.......http://www.classickawasaki.com/plating.htm



This is the time consuming and expensive part: polish away all the rust and imperfections until the item to be chromed is so highly polished that it looks like it is already chromed! Each one of those small rust spots on the item will double or treble in size as the acid eats away the corrosion. These blemishes then have to be totally erased in the polishing process – the very worst cases would require “triple plating” this process involves polishing the metal, plating it in thicker copper, polishing the copper and then plating again with chrome.

no no yuk copper why ?? nickel plating dude your right on the poilsihing

if something chrome plated u have acid stip them back to bare steel.

Mind you got be enough metal there or you have nothing left.

[Grumph]

For those who are saying "make new pipes" - have a bloody good look at the pics. Steve Roberts as usual has done it the hard - and unique way. I've never seen or heard of bending formers which will do square tube on the diagonal axis - they're all conventional bending in the plane of two sides. Making fresh from laser cut sheet isn't really a starter either as looking at those pipes I'm sure Steve has expanded and shrunk pieces to suit....

So Spyda it's fill the pits on what you've got...don't you own a gas plant ?

It'll be a lot of work but as I've said, you'll only do it once....

[Drew]

For those who are saying "make new pipes" - have a bloody good look at the pics. Steve Roberts as usual has done it the hard - and unique way. I've never seen or heard of bending formers which will do square tube on the diagonal axis - they're all conventional bending in the plane of two sides. Making fresh from laser cut sheet isn't really a starter either as looking at those pipes I'm sure Steve has expanded and shrunk pieces to suit....

So Spyda it's fill the pits on what you've got...don't you own a gas plant ?

It'll be a lot of work but as I've said, you'll only do it once....

Yeah, I know it's not likely possible to bend them. After seeing it, the radius would be too tight even if anyone could bend them on the diagonal axis.

[jellywrestler]

the straight bits are simple box section, the bits in between are hand formed, no grumph I don't own a gas set, got a tig.
I'm not worried about the time just the right process that's all

[Drew]

the straight bits are simple box section, the bits in between are hand formed, no grumph I don't own a gas set, got a tig.
I'm not worried about the time just the right process that's allI realise the rebuild thing is absolute bottom of your list of ways to fix it bro, I'm just sorta interested and spit balling for it's own sake.

Are all the bends on the headers the same? I think with computer modeling the cuts of sheet could be made with little or no effort. TIG weld instead of gas as Roberts likely had to do it, and the clean up becomes less intensive too.

Would be interesting to see what Sketchy could come up with.

If it comes to it, I think it's a better option than trying to fix pipe that is too thin or pitted.

[jellywrestler]

I realise the rebuild thing is absolute bottom of your list of ways to fix it bro, I'm just sorta interested and spit balling for it's own sake.

Are all the bends on the headers the same? I think with computer modeling the cuts of sheet could be made with little or no effort. TIG weld instead of gas as Roberts likely had to do it, and the clean up becomes less intensive too.

Would be interesting to see what Sketchy could come up with.

If it comes to it, I think it's a better option than trying to fix pipe that is too thin or pitted.
it's not at the bottom to rebuild and i'm seriuosly considering at least make the rear sections again, it's not hard to do these just patience then they will be new and no they're all custom bends and that's part of the beauty of it all there's definetly a few imperfections but it's all hand built.
fun fun fun is all i can say.
i'm going to borrow a gas set so i can go grumph's way i'm thinking

[Drew]

it's not at the bottom to rebuild and i'm seriuosly considering at least make the rear sections again, it's not hard to do these just patience then they will be new and no they're all custom bends and that's part of the beauty of it all there's definetly a few imperfections but it's all hand built.
fun fun fun is all i can say.
i'm going to borrow a gas set so i can go grumph's way i'm thinking

Lets have a pipe building party!

You have pipes to make templates from, arts and crafts time cutting out cardboard patterns. Maybe not so much booze for the weldy weldy time though.

[Grumph]

Personally, I'd probably use nickel bronze as the filler. Flows well and is harder than "normal" bronze rod so should polish better.

Try and get unfluxed rod and mix up the flux as a paste then paint it on to avoid over fluxing as it's a right pain to remove.

i understood Drew wasn't allowed access to scissors or sharp tools.....

[Drew]

i understood Drew wasn't allowed access to scissors or sharp tools.....
I can do the tracing. I'm real good at staying inside the lines an' everything. I been practicing like!

[fridayflash]

gidday jellywrestler, is that the warlock? im sure ive seen that bike before

[AllanB]

the straight bits are simple box section, the bits in between are hand formed, no grumph I don't own a gas set, got a tig.
I'm not worried about the time just the right process that's all

The huge advantage you have over the original builder is that you already have a existing set of pipes to use as a pattern for the bends - as you note the straight bits are box section - bends welded on no doubt.

It will be a test for sure but infinitely easier than the task the original builder set himself!!!!

[Drew]

The huge advantage you have over the original builder is that you already have a existing set of pipes to use as a pattern for the bends - as you note the straight bits are box section - bends welded on no doubt.

It will be a test for sure but infinitely easier than the task the original builder set himself!!!!

Been thinking about how to do them from scratch actually. A wonder if he made them with four bits of wire to represent the four corners. Then lay card over and trace shape to cut.

[AllanB]

Maybe that he did use say a 4 -5mm wire and actually weld the flat steel to that so the edge has some meat. Then grind as required.

Reckon that would work well as I did something similar on a fancy curve for a gate some years back.

We will never know unless one is cut in half!!!!!!

[Drew]

We will never know unless one is cut in half!!!!!!Steve Roberts is still alive. Spyda has a bit to do with him, and could ask.

[jellywrestler]

gidday jellywrestler, is that the warlock? im sure ive seen that bike before

Warlord actually and it spent most of it's life in napier hastings, got any photos tucked away, or any mates with photos maybe?

[jellywrestler]

another piccie

[fridayflash]

ahh, warlord thats the one! yep i know adam 'friday' the guy you got it from but also
was owned by a guy 'lofty' in taradale where i grew up, no photos sorry but
i occasionally see loftys brothers around, will ask them..might get lucky eh

[jellywrestler]

ahh, warlord thats the one! yep i know adam 'friday' the guy you got it from but also
was owned by a guy 'lofty' in taradale where i grew up, no photos sorry but
i occasionally see loftys brothers around, will ask them..might get lucky eh

Say hi to Friday for us and any photos are welcome as there's a couple of details that i can't quite figure out how it was in it's day...

[AllanB]

Very cool. And there is a lot of work in those pipes! Still doable as heck it was done once!

[jellywrestler]

more piccies, the pipes are 1 1/2 inch square so will give you an idea on pitting size

[Drew]

Bloody hell that Roberts is a master of making cool shit aye!

It doesn't look overly pitted. The braising the surface trick has to be easiest surely.

[jellywrestler]

Bloody hell that Roberts is a master of making cool shit aye!

It doesn't look overly pitted. The braising the surface trick has to be easiest surely.

may sound it but the temperatures that it needs mean I risk damaging them so am doing as much to learn the pros and cons of each method first

[F5 Dave]

So you think you may distort them brazing them. Surely they underwent some stress when first made. But (being no expert) is is possible to fill them with packed sand or water so only the surface is getting hot? Pig to get out I'd guess.

[jellywrestler]

So you think you may distort them brazing them. Surely they underwent some stress when first made. But (being no expert) is is possible to fill them with packed sand or water so only the surface is getting hot? Pig to get out I'd guess.

we're talking pits every square inch here so i'm just being cautious and listening to all veiwpoints, it seems to be working to BTW

[Drew]

we're talking pits every square inch here so i'm just being cautious and listening to all veiwpoints, it seems to be working to BTWListening is working, or the braising?

[Grumph]

may sound it but the temperatures that it needs mean I risk damaging them so am doing as much to learn the pros and cons of each method first

Nickle bronze will flow with the steel dull red. If the pipes are 16G as i suspect you won't get distortion.
Spread the work areas around too - a bit on one pipe then over to another.

[jellywrestler]

took a pipe to the electroplater and he fired up the buffs and literally went striaght through in two places...
had an Egli Vincent in the van to drop off at Steve Roberts a couple of days later and while I was there he said bring the bike up and he'll make a new set, problem solved, yee fucking ha

[fridayflash]

thats gotta be the ultimate result spyda! while we're on the pipe chroming subject..does anyone know how much a 4n1 cost to chrome nowadays?
im gunna ph cycleworks and see if they still do the 4n1 slash cut for my gs..in chrome, im kinda expecting itll be an extra $120 over and above the
satin black ones which are on trademe for $695, but i could be waaay off on that price

[jellywrestler]

thats gotta be the ultimate result spyda! while we're on the pipe chroming subject..does anyone know how much a 4n1 cost to chrome nowadays?
im gunna ph cycleworks and see if they still do the 4n1 slash cut for my gs..in chrome, im kinda expecting itll be an extra $120 over and above the
satin black ones which are on trademe for $695, but i could be waaay off on that price

$120???? for a starter there'll be a extra work taken in the build stage even before it gets to the chrome plater, then he'll have to either do two trips to the plater or two couriers fees so $120 won't go far, oh and if they use valley platers then it'll be another two trips to get it right...

[swarfie]

$120???? for a starter there'll be a extra work taken in the build stage even before it gets to the chrome plater, then he'll have to either do two trips to the plater or two couriers fees so $120 won't go far, oh and if they use valley platers then it'll be another two trips to get it right...

Your'e right there Spyda. I got a quote for re-chroming a pair of handle bars for my BMW R90S last week...near SHAT myself. The price of chroming has gone through the roof...$120 (cash). Christ they're only a set of single bend bars (no cross brace or anything) and the chrome that is on them is not that bad. $120 ain't gunna get you squat on a set of 4 into 1's :gob::angry2:

[Voltaire]

I got my BMW headers and Staintune mufflers polished last week, they look like new $120 , chrome pfffft.

[swarfie]

I got my BMW headers and Staintune mufflers polished last week, they look like new $120 , chrome pfffft.

Yup, that's why I didn't get the rear indicator bracket re-chromed...I'll make one out of stainless and they can jam the chrome up where it don't shine :crazy::mad::tugger:

[fridayflash]

$120???? for a starter there'll be a extra work taken in the build stage even before it gets to the chrome plater, then he'll have to either do two trips to the plater or two couriers fees so $120 won't go far, oh and if they use valley platers then it'll be another two trips to get it right...


i thought a might be way outa touch on that one...i know $120 extra used to be what cycleworks quoted...but knowing my elephant memory that was probably 15 to 20 years ago :sunny:

[jellywrestler]

now i find tyhe steels no longer available in nz, gotta get it from the states! that's gonna cost but it's gotta be right...

[Grumph]

now i find tyhe steels no longer available in nz, gotta get it from the states! that's gonna cost but it's gotta be right...

Is he after a forming and drawing steel ? i can see why....

It's possible someone who's doing a lot of 2 stroke pipes may have some here in NZ - it's what you'd use for blown pipes.

Do Fisher & Paykel still press whiteware in NZ ? They'd be using it.

[Drew]

Do Fisher & Paykel still press whiteware in NZ ? They'd be using it.Sooooo, go to the tip and grab a bunch of old washing machines?

[jellywrestler]

Sooooo, go to the tip and grab a bunch of old washing machines?

1/12 inch thin wall box section and 1 inch too...

[Drew]

1/12 inch thin wall box section and 1 inch too...Ahhhhh, of course. I hadn't even thought of the straight sections. :facepalm: Idiot.

[Grumph]

1/12 inch thin wall box section and 1 inch too...

Atlas steel took over Southwards lines and carry inch sizes down to 20G i think...thicker off the rack here in ChCh no probs.

[jellywrestler]

Atlas steel took over Southwards lines and carry inch sizes down to 20G i think...thicker off the rack here in ChCh no probs.

picked it up yesterday, i'd gone around in circles with people saying i wont get it, thanks dude, now i've posted in modifying motorcycles re muffling and someone suggested asking you....
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/160765-Four-stroke-muffler-thoughts?p=1130607135#post1130607135

[imdying]

There's a website in the UK that supplies parts for mufflers (baffles, outers, end caps, you name it) in various sizes.

http://www.pjengineering.co.uk/

Go hard.

[F5 Dave]

Cool they even make Van muffler parts. Hooee! Carbon Big bore on the HiAce! I'd be cool.:cool:


I'd be cool right?

Guys?

Hey where ya going?

[jellywrestler]

hows this for style, wanted to test the pipes so this is the only way....

[Drew]

And...how did it sound?

[AllanB]

Lane splitting could be a issue ........

[jellywrestler]

And...how did it sound?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlrktzwAxZY

[Paul in NZ]

Good onya for preserving another bit of Kiwi motorcycle history - loud sounds and all....

[jellywrestler]

Good onya for preserving another bit of Kiwi motorcycle history - loud sounds and all....

nah it's just too noisy to want to ride will be muffling it down a bit....

[Drew]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlrktzwAxZY


nah it's just too noisy to want to ride will be muffling it down a bit....Is there any way, to hide balance pipes underneath?

Negative wave from one, canceling the positive wave from the other...Or however it bloody works.:scratch:

[jellywrestler]

Is there any way, to hide balance pipes underneath?

Negative wave from one, canceling the positive wave from the other...Or however it bloody works.:scratch:

not an option at all methinks, the simple effort of trying to seal them square would be a cunt of a job, doesn't matter, stripped the top end the other day and it's pretty well hot inside with yoshi shit so with that and the three litre gas tank my ears won't hurt for long at all...

[jellywrestler]

fandiddleantastic...