Why???

[Jackrat]

Why do some of you folks fall off so often.
The last time I came off a road bike was in 1988,I spoke to a mate over xmas
an the last time he came off was in 92' and that was on a gravel road.
So whats the go folks,I keep reading these I came off,I ran up the bum of a car type threads. :confused2

[DEATH_INC.]

Try riding in auckland traffic!Most of my accidents have been going to and from work,usually cars pulling out in front of me.....

[wkid_one]

Honestly:

First one: Cold tyre, change in road surface, incorrectly using rear brake
Second: Cocked up corner - lost concentration - riding outside comfort zone
Third: Diesel on the road, lost rear - game over...

My next accidents if I continued would just be from pushing the envelope too far in pursuit of more speed and thrills. Was just going quicker and quicker before the third.....at the end of the day, I was most likely to outride my capability or confidence or both.......that's why I leave it to the track if I continue on a sports bike......not because I won't fall off, but because when I do, it will be in a more controlled situation. Why do I know I will?? Because I will keep pushing my limits

[Motu]

I hope you don't jinx me here Jack - I'll just have to be even more on my toes eh

Last time I came off on the road was about 89 or so - first and last time on a gravel road,I was so annoyed to break my perfect gravel road record!! Blamed it on the bike of course...TM 400s are not a forgiving bike.

As young guys in my mates shed we had our names written on the wall,underneath we put strokes for the times we had crashed,y'know,4 lines with the 5th to cross them out like a prisoner in jail in the comics.Most had 2 or 3,some had even finished the first row - but I was nearly finished my 4th row....hey,I was easy on them an wasn't counting my off road prangs!

Why? young and very stupid - I'm not young anymore,and just stupid...not very now.I am still falling off off road,trials is a bit slower paced.When I was racing at the dirt track if I didn't crash at least half a dozen times at practice I reckoned I wasn't pushing hard enough - race day was a different story...you don't win if you crash,an I nearly always won!

I don't want to crash on the road anymore - it hurts and makes a mess of the bike,I ride within my limits,120kph is fast enough for me,the roads I ride I can push myself on well below that speed,and still be ready for surprises...and I like surprises!

[Jackrat]

Jinxed,Errr yeah I could of worded this one a bit better.
What I'm really trying to do here is work out a few things about myself more than anything else.
See after not coming off for so long I reckon I must be long over due.
Auckland traffic don't faze me much,After all they are ALL out to get me,I worked that out years ago although it seems to have got worse in resent times.Dirt bikes I think don,t really count because I tend to come off the XR quite regular.I used to come off about once every two years,always my own fault and then I had the big one 88,my own fault,Since then nothing.
Iv'e never had much drama with other road users,probably because I expect them to do the stupid thing anyway.
Now that I sit here tapping out this dribble I just realised every time I have come off it has been my own fault,The one time I did have a problem with a car was when a woman pulled out on me in Papakura,I saw it was going to happen and didn't reacte in time,then when I did I locked it up an washed out the front,Guess you will get that riding a trail bike in the rain with knobs on the road,Like I said my own dumb fault.
Oh well if we don't ask we don't learn huh.
Cheers.

[Motu]

A long time ago I remember how pissed off I was when some riding instructor said how every motorcycle accident was the fault of the motorcycle rider,that there was always something that could be done to avoid the accident - What a fucking wanker! shit,the car driver was always at fault,they are just stupid,and how are we supposed to know when some truck drops half it load,what an idiot.

After a few days to calm down,I realised that he was right - in every case there was something I could of been done to avoid the accident - being much more aware of whats going on - there is NO reason for a car to turn on you,slip on oil or diesel....it's your life,you are in total control of it,don't blame anyone else for your fuck ups.

Random events can still happen,and these are what worry me - that load slipping off a truck,a trailer coming loose and taking me out,an out of control driver involving me in their own accident,I am thinking of these things as I ride,I want to be prepared for random events...it's a dangerous world out these,you ride as if it is.

[boris]

I have fallen of three times on the road. 1st time(rz250) to fast on new tyres or desel on the road, slid the front wheel out from under me.2nd time (GB500)going to fast over Piecock hill road. 3rd (gb500) in the wet on the HUtt motorway at 30KM/h,first rain for weeks so it was very slippie,and a truck just ran over rear wheel of my bike as it lay on the road.

[Hoon]

I had 4 crashes in 2003!!

But 3 of them were on the track so I guess they don't count :doh:

[Jackrat]

Other than Motu,You all seemed to have missed a point.
Don,t you think that coming off due to cold tyres or a wet road or any of the other weak excuses is pretty bloody stupid.A case of natural selection at work even.I am constantly reading on this site that one should always wear the correct gear and then hearing of the guys that make these statements
hiting the deck or some car ect,ect,ect.
I ride with an open face,Don,t use my head light during the day yet I don,t have the same incidents as a few on this site are often whinging about.
So lets forget the wet road,cold tyres ect, What's really going on?
And maybe go back and read Motu's last post before replying.
Just maybe it will keep you alive a bit longer. :whistle:

PS.Wicked seems to be on to it.

[James Deuce]

Other than Motu,You all seemed to have missed a point.
Don,t you think that coming off due to cold tyres or a wet road or any of the other weak excuses is pretty bloody stupid.

So stupid in fact that I don't have the testicular fortitude to say that sort of thing in public.

I've been run over by a truck, but if I'd seen him sooner (and hadn't been riding after an argument with the wife and thinking about that instead of riding) it wouldn't have happened. I've been hit by a Mum dropping kids off and one school and racing to get to another. Again if I'd thought harder about where I was and maintained a better watch I would have stopped instead of locking up and dropping the bike. I fell off on diesel but again it was right next to a bus stop. Pretty easy to avoid if my brain had been turned on. I was on a bike club poker run and was thinking about the next clue instead of riding the bike. My "big one" was going to happen no matter what. And the TO report did find in my favour and that I took appropiate evasive action, but the other participant in the MVA did EVERYTHING wrong that he possibly could. Still if I'd left Christchurch a couple of hours earlier and arrived in Picton in daylight it wouldn't have happened.

Minimise the risk ALL the time.

Jim2

[k14]

I've had 1 accident in my 1 year of riding.

Entirely rider error. Went round a corner at about 30 kph over a man hole cover and low sided. Not a bad crash. Just a bit of gravel rash and some burns from my jacket. Nearly broke my ankle where the gear lever landed on it and jammed it against the road. Kind of hurt a little, but nothing major.

Also, i crashed my mates dads scooter into a tree when i was about 7 :shit: i was trying to turn around and drove straight ahead into a tree!! haha

[Motu]

Thanks Jim,you're onto it - hard to admit you could've done better.

I always held one accident close to my heart as one that couldn't be avoided - like Jim I was run down from behind (on my 18th birthday) by a drunk,the bike was pushed in front of the van for 1/4 mile and I was there for 1/2 mile before I jumped off,the van sped off and the driver holed up at home with a pistol,so he wasn't even drunk when they got him.

He was so blind drunk he just followed my tail light as I pulled over to the side of the road - what could I have done better? it was an old bike(1950) and I was 18 in 1971,so it had a small tail light,no brake light,no indicators and no mirror...none were required.But if I hadn't been so into an ''image'' and rode a bike with more modern equipment for the day,I might of been able to monitor his erratic behaviour behind me and more clearly indicate my intentions to him - the ball was in my court to evade this guy,that I didn't have to equipment to do so was still my fault.Tough,but true.

[KATWYN]

Why do some of you folks fall off so often.
The last time I came off a road bike was in 1988,I spoke to a mate over xmas
an the last time he came off was in 92' and that was on a gravel road.
So whats the go folks,I keep reading these I came off,I ran up the bum of a car type threads. :confused2

Urghh I don't know if I should answer this cos of "walking under ladders" "touch wood" and all that. I have been off roading 5-6 years and road riding about 4 years.

I have not had a crash road riding. (only had the bike fall on top of me while
I was stationary at the time).... :Oops:

I read somewhere that it is usually the first 5 years riding a motorcycle when most crashes on a motorbike will happen. dont quote me on that. has anyone heard that one? it makes sense since thats the start of learning how to ride.

[Coldkiwi]

I'm tending to agree with the line of thought that there's always something the biker can do to minimise the risk but if we don't it doesn't actually mean we caused the accident if it involves another car.
having said that, my accident record is
1) GPX 250, rear ended car in traffic. Too close, not enough sleep. All my fault
2) GPX 250 again. ridden too fast round a corner trying to overtake, panicked (I was tired) and dropped it. All my fault
3) ZZR250 test riding, lady pulled across in front of me without indicating. Fully her fault but if I hadn't been so preoccupied with the way the bike felt I might've spotted her pulling towards the centre and slowing. clipped the bike (I swerved) and I went for a bit of 'get knees down' action.
4) GSXR600, cold tyres (knew they were crap too) too keen to pull out. tyre spun, I spun. Hit the deck. All my fault and nearly made me cry cause it was only 3 weeks old.

But at least I'm learning from my mistakes and not repeating them. Never crashed a car either (only parking dings).

Now if you don't mind, I'm going to find a very large, very wooden tree to hug! :whistle:

[wkid_one]

If you want to get down to brass tacks - 99.99% of all MB accidents could be avoided - however riding would SUCK big time.

Even the best bike riders crash in the most controlled situations - refer to GP and SBK.....supposedly the best yet they still have 'learner' accidents - locking the rear, locking the front, overshooting corners etc - and this is on tracks they ride every year and practise on etc.

Mine were my own fault - no one elses - didn't involve other cars..
First one was inexperience - first bike no real training, shouldn't have been using the rear brake. Second was the fact I was normally at the back of the group - but this time I was second and trying to stay ahead of the guy behind me - stupidly. Miss a corner going in too hot. Third one was complacency, had been over the same road three times that day - assumed it would be the same - wasn't pushing so was slightly inattentive.

I was rapt tho - I went from NEVER riding a bike in Jul 2000 to being able to ride (reasonably) quick, knee down and all, 24 months later. Falling off was part of the learning.......I improved IMMENSELY after each off....funny really as crashing is quick often the ONLY catalyst people respond to to improve their skills. Many think - I am a good/gr8 rider because I don't crash - therefore I don't need training/upskilling. However, quite often they are either painfully unaware of their failiings as a MB'er or an accident waiting to happen and are just plain lucky.

My riding style is such that that is a big risk I took......I knew I would crash because I how I rode - risk v reward.

[wkid_one]

Now if you don't mind, I'm going to find a very large, very wooden tree to hug! :whistle:
As opposed to the 'non-wooden' ones????

[750Y]

I had 1 good one where I was convinced it wasn't my fault because a drink driver on an unlit country road took me out as he came head on across the road with no indicator to duck down a side road and misjudged the distance between us thinking I was a car with 1 headlight on. he hadn't slowed too much because he was trying to 'run the gap' so to speak. I still don't truly believe it was my fault but i could have done things differently like not travelling at 140k or learning and pracitisng emergency evasive techniques which could have drastically reduced my risk.
all the other crashes I've had were due to rider error. I must face facts, i can't ride for shit, which is mostly why i've crashed. Ironically, every crash has reminded me of that. doh! been upright for over 12 months in a row now but no bike anymore so i'll be back to the drawing board when next summer rolls round.

[jrandom]

hmmm, I've posted about these before but here y'all go:

- Fanged round wet corner, lost front over manhole cover. My fault.

- Filtering hard-out in the rain down motorway lane 2A, someone (understandably) pulls across in front of me, nowhere to go, stopping ability shot to hell in the wet on my cheap tyres, too much rear brake, back washes out and dumps me. Once again, my fault. Maybe better tyres would have saved me, but then it was my choice not to put them on, eh?

These are both first-year riding mishaps and I learned from both of them. No idea when or how I'll crash again but I haven't had any 'moments' for a while and I feel that my riding style is evolving in a less-risky direction.

[Jackrat]

Yep hind sight is an interesting critter for sure,Being hit by another road user is a real hard one,Other than keeping my eyes open I can,t really see how I for one would combat that one,As it is now I just asume that if they can they will kind of thing.My own big one also came after a big argument I had just lost at a club I belonged to at the time,A combination of bad temper,high speed,wet road,=Two weeks in traction and the interesting experiance of watching my own blood running down the gutter.
I don,t really belive any amount of track time would make a difference to the things we face on public roads,After all we don,t have sheep,cows,dogs,kids,people in cars,trucks,drunks,white lines,steel man hole covers ect on race tracks.Track riding like dirt riding must make one better at the bike control thing but unfortunatly the public road is a whole different world.Look how Mike Hailwood died.As for myself I still have just as much fun as I always did but in different situations from what I did.One of my fave' Things when I was errrrrr,Younger was riding in the city in just a Tee shirt in the spring rain,Getting it side ways as much as possible.Now days I look back on that an think I must of had rocks in me head.I have been told I am paranoid but it don't seem like it to me,I mean if it wasn,t fun I wouldn't do it.
I do harp on a bit at some of my friends and family that ride and end up coming across as an old fart,but what the hey,If they are still here in thirty or more years an still riding then I'm happy to be an old fart.

[bluninja]

1980 fell off A100 in carpark driveway after first 20 minutes of riding...my fault.

2001 RSVR versus tractor turning onto road. Technically tractor drivers fault, but a series of choices and mistakes by me (and some other drivers) put myself in the position where I could be taken out. Fault doesn't come into it when your 18 hour old bike is a writeoff and you are laid on the tarmac in trashed leathers awaiting an ambulance. I had plenty of time to reconsider my riding approach and review my actions.

5 racetrack spills (3 in last 12 months), 3 offs having a go at motorcross....all learning exercises:)

As for the premise that a motorcyclist is responsible for every accident...this is the normal trotted out rubbish. Nothing is black and white (except a zebra crossing maybe). We should all look long and hard at ourselves to see how we can avoid ending up in the accident, but that is not the same thing as being at fault.

eg.

Ex brother in law had 3 accidents within a year. Each a driver turning right from major to minor and him going over the front. Until he changed his attitude from my right of way...to how do I not get hit when this happens he would continue to have these accidents. He changed his attitude and road position...cars still pull out, but less often and he doesn't hit them. I guess that would make him responsible for the accidents...not the car pulling out in front.

AMCC bike ride. Rider hit on the back of a head by a large bird, loses control and plants the bike into a tree. Are you seriously going to tell me that cos this guy knew there were birds in NZ he should have a strategy for dealing with a bird strike??? and therefore was responsible for the accident.

Stationary in a traffic queue get slammed from behind (let's assume that avoidance into the oncoming traffic queue is a no no, no room up the inside, and applying the horn to attract attention didn't work). Whoops I guess the rider should have planned an escape route before stopping.

Whilst I'm started on this diatribe.......one of the reasons that having an accident causes your insurance to go up, is not just the loss of no claims. It's because statistics show that most riders/drivers don't learn from their mistakes and will continue to have those type of accidents over and over when the some situation occurs.

Oh and another thing....glad nobody was injured by WKID when he honed his high speed skills on the road.

and another thing don't you offroad/gravel riders make excuses like cos it's a loose surface it don't count....not if you're going to poo poo cold tyres, wet roads. We should all ride to the conditions and stay upright.:baby:

[Motu]

Urghh I don't know if I should answer this cos of "walking under ladders" "touch wood" and all that. I have been off roading 5-6 years and road riding about 4 years.

I have not had a crash road riding. (only had the bike fall on top of me while
I was stationary at the time).... :Oops:

I read somewhere that it is usually the first 5 years riding a motorcycle when most crashes on a motorbike will happen. dont quote me on that. has anyone heard that one? it makes sense since thats the start of learning how to ride.

That you rode off road before you took to the streets says it all KATWYN,I reckon off road training should be compulsary before a street license.My wife went to a riding school - she knew stuff that it took me 4 yrs to learn the hard way bouncing off cars,falling off on white lines etc.I'm kinda proud that I taught myself,learnt from it,then took it beyond a normal level - I used to train myself to take in information at an excelerated level for short periods until I could maintain it for longer,then it became second nature.But I was a danger to myself and others until I realised something was wrong....me

[Motu]

I mentioned random events bluninja - once the basics are second nature...not riding but damage control,not falling off or hitting others - then you can put that left over input into being ready for random events,sure they may catch you by suprise,but be still able to cope.Thats why I like back roads and gravel - random events come thick and fast,I like it like that.

[Jackrat]

Who ever said lose gravel surfaces don't count,If it,s on a public road of course it does.Bit of selective interpretation on your part me thinks.Iv,e personaly never riden my XR on a road of any type.And that has NOTHING to do with this thread.As for your mate that got hit by the bird,If his bike control skills were up to it he wouldn't have come off Aye,So yes it was his own fault,I mean in the back of the head,Come on!!,I got hit in the chest by a hawk and didn't come off.
BTW insurance also has NOTHING to do with this thread,so why bring it in.
Try to just stick to the subject rather than leting your little Ego get in the way of what until you showed up was going just fine.
If you can't except responsibilty for your own actions then don,t bore us with your usual unprovable claims.
Now we can sit back and wait for all the made up facts an figures to ruin the thread. :wacko:

[Motoracer]

Comming off is usually due to lack of skills and experience. No matter what excusess there may be, it usually boils down to the hard facts of life. Crashing is a major driver/rider error/mistake. And every mistake has its conciquences. It is always a good idea to face the conciquences for the long term (you might come out as a better/wiser person). If you/I make excuses for every mistake we make, we will never learn from them.

Why you guys (Motu, jack etc..) haven't come off in ages? Its due to all the experience you have gained over the years that have made you guys the wiser. AND I think you guys are less likely to make silly mistakes that the younger guys (like my self) are more prone to make. eg. ego issues. :o

[wkid_one]

I don,t really belive any amount of track time would make a difference to the things we face on public roads,After all we don,t have sheep,cows,dogs,kids,people in cars,trucks,drunks,white lines,steel man hole covers ect on race tracks.Track riding like dirt riding must make one better at the bike control thing but unfortunatly the public road is a whole different world..
I actually think it works to the contrary on the road. You stop thinking about potholes, whitelines, gravel etc with too much track riding - taking the road surface for granted....plus you focus more on yourself than the area as the track becomes second natrure

[bluninja]

Motu, apologies I didn't read your post fully.

As for Jackrat. Bro if you don't like my post because it doesn't make sense to you, or you disagree....well this is a forum.

I take responsibility for all my actions thankyou, and before I descended into drivel I did say a series of choices and mistakes by me (and some other drivers) put myself in the position where I could be taken out. Put simply I put myself in the position to be hit. My responsibility.

You asked Why do some of you folks fall off so often. I remembered some research done by insurance companies and posted about it, but can't find the research...however I did find...

If you have had an accident in one 3 year period, you are twice as likely to have another accident in the next 3 years.
Roadcraft, The Police Drivers Handbook

I was in my own way trying to answer your original question.

And it's so nice to know that your manly(?) chest can take a hawk strike without losing control of the bike. A bird strike to the head is a bit different. Since I don't have any facts to support this I would be quite happy to throw an oven ready chicken at the back of your head as you ride by and let you post the results:devil2:

[Jackrat]

Yeah like I said,more pointless made up facts an figures.
The thread was never about other people,it was about your own experiances.
Not your mate that got hit by a bird.What the hell has that got to do with anything.It was probably crap anyway. :devil2: