Please help me sort out my suspension

[YellowDog]

So I have a Tiger 1050 ABS and I was looking at a technology refresh. I agreed a price to trade for a new Tiger 1050 Sport, subject to a test ride.

Oh dear. It seems that 10hp more equates to 30hp less performance than my modded thumper. The new bike did however have some refinements to offer, one of those being better road handling.

So my choices are, either take a new Tiger 1050 sport and take a gamble on it being as good or better than mine after the same mods are transferred over, or just upgrading the suspension on my trusty steed.

I am located North of Auckland, so any recommendations would be very much appreciated.

Robert Taylor recommended establishments would certainly be a plus; 'cos he's da man in da know' :niceone:

[Maha]

Why spend upwards of 3K on your current bike when you seem rightly taken with the new Tiger Sport?
If a deal can be done, and you are in the position to trade up/in, I know what I would be doing. I wanted the new Tiger Sport but my position said otherwise.

[Sable]

Oh dear. It seems that 10hp more equates to 30hp less performance than my modded thumper.

What do you mean by 'thumper'?

[YellowDog]

Why spend upwards of 3K on your current bike when you seem rightly taken with the new Tiger Sport?
If a deal can be done, and you are in the position to trade up/in, I know what I would be doing. I wanted the new Tiger Sport but my position said otherwise.

Well lucky me I found some cash I'd written off from my professional gambling days (share trading). The Tiger Sport is basically an S3 on stilts and I was well up for the technology refresh. I was just totally shocked with the lack of power, when compared to my modded bike and I am certainly not interested in upgrading to a slower bike. Before I would consider modding a new Tiger, I want to talk to someone whom has already done it, just to make sure it can be done and there's no 'gotchas' Triumph have put in place to make it impossible.

I'm now exploring the cost options of keeping my bike. $$$ suspension + $$$ Major Service + $$$ Tyres.

One thing that has swung the balance back in favour of a new bike is the fact that the Krauts at TuneECU have produced downloadable Race performance tunes for the new ECU. I had always assumed that user access to the ECU would not be possible. It's a Power Commander for FREE :bleh:

[Robert Taylor]

Why spend upwards of 3K on your current bike when you seem rightly taken with the new Tiger Sport?
If a deal can be done, and you are in the position to trade up/in, I know what I would be doing. I wanted the new Tiger Sport but my position said otherwise.

That is making an assumption that a newer bike has improved suspension......................All too often that is very far from the truth when bike manufacturers are actively engaged in finding cheaper and cheaper ways to make suspension. That doesnt mean better function, unless you naively believe all the marketing spin.

Anyway, I will reply in detail re options for this bike

[Maha]

That is making an assumption that a newer bike has improved suspension......................All too often that is very far from the truth when bike manufacturers are actively engaged in finding cheaper and cheaper ways to make suspension. That doesnt mean better function, unless you naively believe all the marketing spin.

Anyway, I will reply in detail re options for this bike

Dentists work the same way, they would have your wisdom teeth out at great cost, when they are not even bothering you...
Attend to a problem when it is necessary.

It's entirely up to Y/Dog what he does, it's his money/bike.

[YellowDog]

That is making an assumption that a newer bike has improved suspension......................All too often that is very far from the truth when bike manufacturers are actively engaged in finding cheaper and cheaper ways to make suspension. That doesnt mean better function, unless you naively believe all the marketing spin.

Anyway, I will reply in detail re options for this bike

Thanks Robert. FYI: The new Tiger Sport does have consideraby better suspension than the previous model, so I guess that could be set up for me, but I do also relaise that it would not be as good as an RaceTech/Ohlins bespoke solution.

[Robert Taylor]

Dentists work the same way, they would have your wisdom teeth out at great cost, when they are not even bothering you...
Attend to a problem when it is necessary.

Thats why we are so busy, attending to neccessary problem solutions. There are those that are very happy with the mediocrity that is so often rammed down our throats, aka ''thats as good as it gets''. Personally ( and Im very much not alone ) I prefer engineering solutions that WORK, by engineers. Not by bean counters. There is a wide gulf between the two.

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks Robert. FYI: The new Tiger Sport does have consideraby better suspension than the previous model, so I guess that could be set up for me, but I do also relaise that it would not be as good as an RaceTech/Ohlins bespoke solution.

I would hope so because the forks especially in previous models were notoriously bad in their inability to absorb even mildly abrupt bumps. Ive had a quick look but there is no ''aftermarket'' research info that I have yet come across. There are of course initial road test reports but I would have to cynically say that I rate journalsits somewhere with politicians. The reality is if journalists said what really was the truth manufacturers would withdraw the advertising revenue that they so depend on.
You may be ahead of me on research info. For example are the forks still a totally seperated system i.e rebound totally in one leg and compression totally in the other leg? If that is the case theyd have to be making some very major changes to make the damn things actually work to an acceptable standard.

[YellowDog]

Hey Robert, yes indeed the fork configuration is still a totally separated system. Probably best that I send you an email. Cheers

[nzspokes]

Dentists work the same way, they would have your wisdom teeth out at great cost, when they are not even bothering you...
Attend to a problem when it is necessary.

It's entirely up to Y/Dog what he does, it's his money/bike.

Speaking of which, have you put a Busa shock in ya Bandit yet? :cool:

[Maha]

Speaking of which, have you put a Busa shock in ya Bandit yet? :cool:

Just waiting for that to be a problem area for me.:corn:

[Robert Taylor]

Just waiting for that to be a problem area for me.:corn:

It is better to say nothing at all and be thought of as a fool than to actually say something and remove all doubt.

[nzspokes]

Just waiting for that to be a problem area for me.:corn:

Busa shock and some fork springs to suit ya weight. Cheap nice upgrade. Fork springs are cheap if you look about and it would seem the major brands all come out of the Eibach factory.

Or just ride it and love it.

[Robert Taylor]

Busa shock and some fork springs to suit ya weight. Cheap nice upgrade. Fork springs are cheap if you look about and it would seem the major brands all come out of the Eibach factory.

Or just ride it and love it.

Wrong again, there are quite a number of different fork spring manufacturers. The cheap ones you aspire to are so not Eibach and the high standards they achieve. Poor surface polishing, bad end conditions. Sharp unfinished edges and very poor rate tolerancing. Given that we have a fork spring rate tester and upspec a LOT of forks we can verify that, rather than making blanket assumptions

[Maha]

It is better to say nothing at all and be thought of as a fool than to actually say something and remove all doubt.

Confucius say ''He who has hole in pocket feels cocky all day.''

[Robert Taylor]

Hey Robert, yes indeed the fork configuration is still a totally separated system. Probably best that I send you an email. Cheers

Thanks for that, I will answer your question right here. Triumph may have juggled with the spring rates and maybe with the valving a little.
Whilst I would be more than prepared to be wrong Id be very surprised if they ditched the small port and highly restrictive fork pistons of the earlier models for pistons with decent mass flow rate properties. This is not the sort of information youd find in a specification sheet or indeed doing a search on an aftermarket suspension suppliers website. They want to sell you their pistons come hell or high water, irrespective if they need them or not. So contrary to the deliberately mischievous assertion by someone else that industry people such as myself are similiar to dentists needlessly pulling wisdom teeth, well some of us act in a sincere way and dont replace stuff unless absolutely required. We also provide free information that can be useful to anyone, irrespective of whether readers feel they want to support local or will take the information anyway and send their business offshore regardless. Maybe Im old fashioned and can remember a world where everything was less cut throat and there was a lot more community spirit.
Frankly, the proof will be in the pudding. You need to see if you can get a test ride on one of these and try to find some roads ( shouldnt be difficult ) with abrupt bumps. If these forks are harsh over abrupt bumps irrespective of spring preload and damping adjuster position then its a fair bet the pistons will still be flow restrictive.
Also dont buy into this ''fully adjustable'' marketing bull. Damping adjusters only adjust by pass bleed, they wont magically compensate for internal design and setting that is fundamentally harsh. Sure you may get some improvement by making sure that the rebound is responsive and not ''holding'' the front excessively. Also by backing out the compression adjuster. But think about this, as you back out that compression adjuster it gets to the point of making the first part of action quite sloppy, especially under brakes. It also has the affect of lowering the pressure balance acting upon the shim stacks ( because there is now more bypass bleed ) and therefore delaying the point at which the stacks open. So its not a fix, people are in denial if they think that.
So definitely the front end is the main problem area and our fix for these is Traxxion Dynamics big port pistons, we have done more than a few and its quite a bit more affordable than the Race Tech solution, with the same stellar result. Much much less than a four figure sum. If springs are required we would need to address that. We have built a highly effective fork spring rate tester and because of many issues with lower cost springs ( Ive posted about fork springs more than a couple of times ) we are very picky about what we use.
The rear end in these Triumphs are by no means the worst on the block and again youd need to make a judgement call by riding one of these bikes. If a better shock is called for we have replacements starting at a little over 1K through to around 2k, all options offering a sizable improvement in ride quality, chassis control and tyre life.
Hope this in some way helps.

[YellowDog]

Yes this does help and is in tune with my present level of understanding. It is a shame you are not based in the Auckland area.
(for me, not for you) :lol:

[nzspokes]

Wrong again, there are quite a number of different fork spring manufacturers. The cheap ones you aspire to are so not Eibach and the high standards they achieve. Poor surface polishing, bad end conditions. Sharp unfinished edges and very poor rate tolerancing. Given that we have a fork spring rate tester and upspec a LOT of forks we can verify that, rather than making blanket assumptions

I was told the Ohlinis and Racetech were done by them. Oh well.

[Robert Taylor]

I was told the Ohlinis and Racetech were done by them. Oh well.

Occasionaly Eibach have made springs for both of those suspension companies. But by no means an exclusive as a supplier for all varieties of spring fitments. There are many other spring manufacturers, both high end and low end. Eibach whilst being pretty much at the top of the tree ( and with profile )by no means have an exclusive at being the very best.
And of course not everyone wants to pay for the best and just think ''springs are just springs''.
People also think we just take suspension units out of boxes and just bolt them up, nothing could be further from the truth. I dyno'd a stock standard K-Tech shock today that had been fitted and raced with ''out of the box''. Looking at the dyno curves I can understand why the rider struggled with it. It needed proper setting up, beyond just playing with preload and external clickers. Same for our preferred Swedish product or any other product, just a tool that requires knowledge and experience.

[F5 Dave]

If the pistons are anything like the old ones RT returned when he Racetech'd mine several years ago I can see why they were so crap (and lack of shims). The rear was revalved by previous owner but the ohlins was several shades better.

I'd hate to be Maha's teeth in a few years time. But like mouths you can't see suspension workings , we'll see how smart he feels then.

[Maha]

If the pistons are anything like the old ones RT returned when he Racetech'd mine several years ago I can see why they were so crap (and lack of shims). The rear was revalved by previous owner but the ohlins was several shades better.

I'd hate to be Maha's teeth in a few years time. But like mouths you can't see suspension workings , we'll see how smart he feels then.

Lucky I never used Lower Colon Surgery as an example then...you wouldn't want be there either :no:

[MD]

Hi YD,

I know what you mean about your first impression that the Tiger Sport was not as powerful as one would expect with the claim of +10hp. Admittedly I only did a one hour test ride of a new Sport, not run in either,so I DID NOT screw it. But seat of the pants feel was that it was down, not up, on power over my Tiger. Like yours, mine had the race pipe with tune and the airbox snorkel opened, so that's a bit unfair to compare.

Personally if I had the cash I'd still go with the Sport. No denying the suspension on the base Tiger gives up after a year or so of thrashing and needs some specialist TLC. Mine was stuffed and I had approached Robert for a fix until I fell for the MV instead. The Sport did feel very good in corners though and I'd say the chassis changes, new swingarm etc, are an improvement worth having. If it does have +10hp then imagine a bit of repeat tinkering should give it the ponies over you modified Tiger. I prefer the facelift looks of the Sport too.

[YellowDog]

Hi YD,

I know what you mean about your first impression that the Tiger Sport was not as powerful as one would expect with the claim of +10hp. Admittedly I only did a one hour test ride of a new Sport, not run in either,so I DID NOT screw it. But seat of the pants feel was that it was down, not up, on power over my Tiger. Like yours, mine had the race pipe with tune and the airbox snorkel opened, so that's a bit unfair to compare.

Personally if I had the cash I'd still go with the Sport. No denying the suspension on the base Tiger gives up after a year or so of thrashing and needs some specialist TLC. Mine was stuffed and I had approached Robert for a fix until I fell for the MV instead. The Sport did feel very good in corners though and I'd say the chassis changes, new swingarm etc, are an improvement worth having. If it does have +10hp then imagine a bit of repeat tinkering should give it the ponies over you modified Tiger. I prefer the facelift looks of the Sport too.


Thanks for your comments MD. Yes indeed, the Sport does have some nice improvements and yes I do know I am not comparing like with like. But I was just soooo disappointed. I'm going to hold fire now until I have spoken with someone whom has actually modded a Tiger Sport in the same way. The garage I'd planned buying from offered to swap everything over, but they were not so sure that the exhaust would transplant with the slight changes to the rear on the new unit.

The Tiger Sport has shown me just how great my present bike is and my most likely outcome now is to fork out some cash for a suspension upgrade until I can see what others have done with their Tiger Sports. Basically, the TS is OK as it is and no mods are required, whereas our pre-TS bikes were in need of some attention from day one.