New Zealand WOF system is it a genuine necessity or a scam?

[5150]

While on my USA holidays I noticed that they do not have a WOF system there. Only requirement is to have your emissions checked once a year. Which made me think whether our WOF system is an over reaction or even a necessity. (even in it's current form) Are we really getting rid of unsafe cars, considerring that most are not up to WOF standard even with current WOF's? Wouldn't the money be better spent elsewere? I am not necessary against the WOF system, but just wanted to get a feel what others think of it?

What are your thoughts?

[oneofsix]

There was a thread on this when the Government were proposing to ditch the WOF system and all the usual :bs: about no WOF would mean unsafe cars on the road etc was trotted out with an large dose of MTA and VTNZ protecting their revenue stream. End result the current committee decided system you currently have where people still get to absolve their responsibility based on the idea that some official said their vehicle was ok on the day it was tested.

[unstuck]

I think it has some merits, but some garages do use it to get themselves work. Thats why I urge most people to use VTNZ, they dont fix cars, so have no interest in generating work. Just my 2pence worth.:yes:

[Katman]

There was a thread on this when the Government were proposing to ditch the WOF system and all the usual :bs: about no WOF would mean unsafe cars on the road etc was trotted out with an large dose of MTA and VTNZ protecting their revenue stream.

So how do you account for the times that I get bikes in for WOFs where the owners have deliberately tried to hide a fault of their bike?

[Hitcher]

Remember that in the USA one is able to sue the bejeebers out of anybody one believes has wronged one. If one is apprehended driving a sub-standard motor vehicle, Sheriff Roscoe P Coltraine will take great delight at throwing the book at one and, if necessary, impounding one's ride.

Safety standards of motor vehicles are only a small contributor to road accidents and deaths, particularly when compared to the effects of alcohol and other similar mind-altering substances.

[Katman]

In New Zealand we have such a piss poor "she'll be right" attitude that I shudder to think what we'd have out on the road if there weren't a periodic opportunity to ensure faults are remedied.

[unstuck]

Should that not be " will take great delight in throwing the book at one". One is just observing.:bleh:

[Scuba_Steve]

I think it has some merits, but some garages do use it to get themselves work. Thats why I urge most people to use VTNZ, they dont fix cars, so have no interest in generating work. Just my 2pence worth.:yes:

I have different thoughts on that, they're overly strict on cars failing on things in no way related to safety (but hey they have a fail quota to meet) & absolutely useless with bikes passing them with obvious safety defects


End of day WoF is not worth the sticker it's printed on, it's an extortion scam & IMO makes the roads less safe with the false sense of security they provide.
"Dude your steering wheel's shaking like an 80 yr old women with Parkinson's"
"that's alright WoF will pick it up in 3 months"
3 months later... WoF fails to pick it up
"dude it's still shaking"
"yea but it's safe I passed a WoF"
:facepalm:

[unstuck]

Yes, I agree with you scuba, on some points. Failing a wof because the washer bottle has no water in it, WTF, put some water in it then, not our job. Fair enough in a way I Suppose, but how hard is it to put a bit of water in a bottle, just so you can help someone out. But helping people does not generate income I suppose. Dunno.:facepalm:

[Katman]

End of day WoF is not worth the sticker it's printed on, it's an extortion scam & IMO makes the roads less safe with the false sense of security they provide.
"Dude your steering wheel's shaking like an 80 yr old women with Parkinson's"
"that's alright WoF will pick it up in 3 months"
3 months later... WoF fails to pick it up
"dude it's still shaking"
"yea but it's safe I passed a WoF"
:facepalm:

Hence why any WOF process should involve a road test.

The problem of people thinking their vehicle is safe simply because it has a WOF is a fault with the attitude of that person - not with the WOF system.

[unstuck]

Hence why any WOF process should involve a road test.

The problem of people thinking their vehicle is safe simply because it has a WOF is a fault with the attitude of that person - not with the WOF system.

Yep, I agree Katman.:2thumbsup

[biggo]

The NZ public are used to the WOF system to check their vehicles. For a lot of people this is the only time their bonnet get lifted let alone anything else checked on their vehicles.

Bring on emission testing I say. Was bought in in the UK when I lived there in 1994 wasn't long before all the old shit smoky vehicles were off the road. We are meant to be clean green New Zealand and yet half the vehicles on the road here would fail a proper emission test I bet,

[haydes55]

I have never once heard a news story about a fatal accident resulting from mechanical failure. Yet every day theres usually a story about Joe Blogs crossing the center line and killing babies. I would rather see annual license tests. And actual tests that test driver skill. Like licensing in Finland. If you are involved in a crash. Immediately invalidates you license and you can't drive until you can prove you have the skills required.

[buggerit]

I have never once heard a news story about a fatal accident resulting from mechanical failure. Yet every day theres usually a story about Joe Blogs crossing the center line and killing babies. I would rather see annual license tests. And actual tests that test driver skill. Like licensing in Finland. If you are involved in a crash. Immediately invalidates you license and you can't drive until you can prove you have the skills required.

So does this mean the warrent of fitness scheme is working?:confused::msn-wink:

[Erelyes]

I would rather see annual license tests. And actual tests that test driver skill.

Ex-fucking-zactly. I reckon many out there on the road would fail any number of simple tests.

Q: Measure the tread depth of this tyre and tell me if it's safe please.
A: :scratch:

:facepalm:

[Scuba_Steve]

Hence why any WOF process should involve a road test.

The problem of people thinking their vehicle is safe simply because it has a WOF is a fault with the attitude of that person - not with the WOF system.

maybee it is BUT when you're forced to pay for a "safety" check why would you do it yourself?
Just like people with cleaners don't clean up after themselves, people with receptionists don't answer the phone themselves, people with accountants don't do their own accounting, see where this is going?
When you're paying someone else to do a job (especially when forced to) you expect them to do the job & for you not to have to, that's why you're fucking paying them...

[Katman]

maybee it is BUT when you're forced to pay for a "safety" check why would you do it yourself?


The WOF process has never been presented as something that guarantees your vehicle is safe for the next 6 months.

The onus is still on the owner to maintain their vehicle to that standard.

That is the attitude change that to needs to be instigated.

[oneofsix]

The WOF process has never been presented as something that guarantees your vehicle is safe for the next 6 months.

The onus is still on the owner to maintain their vehicle to that standard.

That is the attitude change that to needs to be instigated.

and the quickest way to instigate it is to remove the presumed safety net of the WOF. Whether or not it has been presented by TPTB as a guarantee it is a de facto guarantee to most of those you share the road with, often made so because they know they don't have insurance cover unless they have one regardless of vehicle condition.
All a WOF guarantees is that some numbity will assume their vehicle is safe because it has a WOF and they will never check for themselves.

[Katman]

and the quickest way to instigate it is to remove the presumed safety net of the WOF. Whether or not it has been presented by TPTB as a guarantee it is a de facto guarantee to most of those you share the road with, often made so because they know they don't have insurance cover unless they have one regardless of vehicle condition.
All a WOF guarantees is that some numbity will assume their vehicle is safe because it has a WOF and they will never check for themselves.

Nothing in that post points fault at the WOF process.

The fault lies with the individual who doesn't grasp the concept of the process.

[Gremlin]

Some people do not maintain their vehicles at all... I'm sure any WOF person could tell you stories.

At least the WOF system somewhat keeps that in check (assuming the people try to get a WOF - some don't).

Yes, it annoys me on a personal level as the shop handles all servicing by the book, they're well maintained, items are replaced whenever required etc. However, when I occasionally see what some fail for, I'm relieved...

[SMOKEU]

The WOF system is necessary because in general New Zealanders seem to be obsessed with paying crazy money for old Japanese wrecks that the rest of the developed world doesn't want. They treat their vehicles like an appliance that only needs "servicing" when it starts making a funny noise or fails a WOF, and think that the magical Japanese badge on the front will fully protect them from a complete lack of maintenance.

[Clockwork]

The WOF system is necessary because in general New Zealanders seem to be obsessed with paying crazy money for old Japanese wrecks that the rest of the developed world doesn't want. They treat their vehicles like an appliance that only needs "servicing" when it starts making a funny noise or fails a WOF, and think that the magical Japanese badge on the front will fully protect them from a complete lack of maintenance.


I've just spent near as damn it NZ$60,000 on a new car that would cost me no more than US$30,000 is the states!

When we can by new cars for a similar price there will be no market here for those "old Japanese wrecks"

On the subject of WOFs. I think they're a good idea but maybe a little too pedantic given the stupid shit they can fail a car for!

As for VTNZ, if I was buying I may want them to WOF the car but I wouldn't recommend my kids to take their cars there if they're strapped for cash!

[5150]

The WOF system is necessary because in general New Zealanders seem to be obsessed with paying crazy money for old Japanese wrecks that the rest of the developed world doesn't want. They treat their vehicles like an appliance that only needs "servicing" when it starts making a funny noise or fails a WOF, and think that the magical Japanese badge on the front will fully protect them from a complete lack of maintenance.

You obviously have not been to USA. In Chicago for example, I've seen rusted out cars almost breaking in half because the chasis is so rusted, but they are still driving on the road (legally as long as their emission has passed)

[5150]

I've just spent near as damn it NZ$60,000 on a new car that would cost me no more than US$30,000 is the states!

When we can by new cars for a similar price there will be no market here for those "old Japanese wrecks"



Exfuckingactly

[Robert Taylor]

In New Zealand we have such a piss poor "she'll be right" attitude that I shudder to think what we'd have out on the road if there weren't a periodic opportunity to ensure faults are remedied.

Indeed, many have to be protected from their own ignorance.

[Big Dave]

In Qld the only time a vehicle has to have a roadworthy certificate is if you buy/sell it.

Doesn't seem to be too many dungers on the road though - the cops get 'em.

[Katman]

Doesn't seem to be too many dungers on the road though - the cops get 'em.

Over in Oz people have been trained to accept that the last thing they ever want is to be made to have their vehicle put "over the pit".

At that time every single fault becomes an issue to be repaired - right down to every little oil leak.

Do we really want the police to become roadside WOF testers?

[Brian d marge]

Boi racers

nuff said

Need WOF , tested by people that know what they are doing

Stephen

[98tls]

Theres a fair percentage of Kiwis on the road that never have nor never will have any idea re the workings of a motor vehicle,take my dear old mum for instance shes a prime example.When i am up her way i check her tyre pressures/oil etc but other that the cars not looked at bar the 6 monthly wof so for my money its not a bad thing,she drives a late model car but many dont in her position and at least the wof ensures the vechile gets inspected (of sorts).

[neels]

For as long as you have people failing a wof for headlights not working, bald tyres etc then the system probably needs to exist, if they can't even be bothered to take 5 minutes for a look before taking it to be checked.

Unless there is a system as per other countries that keeps your car off the road until repaired and reinspected when it's found to be faulty, there needs to be something in between.

The other scary thing is that after your car has failed it's WOF check, they let you drive it away.......

[scumdog]

Safety standards of motor vehicles are only a small contributor to road accidents and deaths, particularly when compared to the effects of alcohol and other similar mind-altering substances.


However should the need for a WOF vanish will this remain true??

[scumdog]

In New Zealand we have such a piss poor "she'll be right" attitude that I shudder to think what we'd have out on the road if there weren't a periodic opportunity to ensure faults are remedied.

Pretty much what I think too, watch this space...

[scumdog]

Hence why any WOF process should involve a road test.

The problem of people thinking their vehicle is safe simply because it has a WOF is a fault with the attitude of that person - not with the WOF system.

They do that with bikes/cars/hot-rods down here, is that not the case everywhere??

[scumdog]

And actual tests that test driver skill. Like licensing in Finland. If you are involved in a crash. Immediately invalidates you license and you can't drive until you can prove you have the skills required.

Wow, imagine if that was introduced in NZ!!:blink:

[scumdog]

The WOF process has never been presented as something that guarantees your vehicle is safe for the next 6 months.

The onus is still on the owner to maintain their vehicle to that standard.

That is the attitude change that to needs to be instigated.


Must spread rep....

[haydes55]

Wow, imagine if that was introduced in NZ!!:blink:

In my view, if you drive, knowing you aren't capable of avoiding crashes and have a crash that results in a death, you should be charged with manslaughter rather than vehicular manslaughter. You could of gotten training or driven within your limits to avoid the crash. Every fatal crash has a guilty person who should be locked up the same as any other murderer

[Katman]

They do that with bikes/cars/hot-rods down here, is that not the case everywhere??

As far as I'm aware it's quite common for testing stations to carry out a WOF inspection without conducting a road test.

I have only ever had two people refuse to allow me to ride their bikes.

They got told "no test ride, no WOF".

[Gremlin]

As far as I'm aware it's quite common for testing stations to carry out a WOF inspection without conducting a road test.
Last time VTNZ tested the BMW for WOF, the little asian fella asked me to carry out the tests. I was quite happy, as there was no way he could handle the bike safely.

[jonbuoy]

Its only some states that have don´t have safety inspections. In the UK they have just scrapped or are in the process of scrapping the annual test for classic cars - the government worked out that most classics were generally better maintained than most modern cars. No safety inspection in NZ - can you imagine the number of boy racers hacking down their springs with an angle grinder. A lot of people would have no idea that funny noise from the front of their car was the brake pad backing grinding on the disc surface.

[Road kill]

The current system should stay,but a WOF fail should come with an instant fine for driving a vehicle not up to WOF standards.

Plus instant immpoundment of the vehicle and instant suspension of DL until the fine is paid and the vehicle bought up to standard.

This within 30 days or the vehicle is crushed .

A law should be drafted so no right of complaint is available.

People with cut springs and other uncertified mod's should simply have the vehicle crushed on site and be banned from driving for life.

Prisons should be built in Australia or America for repeat offenders,,,and their passports should canceled.

[Scuba_Steve]

For as long as you have people failing a wof for headlights not working, bald tyres etc then the system probably needs to exist, if they can't even be bothered to take 5 minutes for a look before taking it to be checked.

Unless there is a system as per other countries that keeps your car off the road until repaired and reinspected when it's found to be faulty, there needs to be something in between.

The other scary thing is that after your car has failed it's WOF check, they let you drive it away.......

Turns out we already have that system, I'm sure Scummy could tell you about pink stickers
Oh and people will start taking responsibility when we bring in sane laws like the rest of the world are either on or moving to, i.e. no WoF



However should the need for a WOF vanish will this remain true??

Yes!



Its only some states that have don´t have safety inspections. In the UK they have just scrapped or are in the process of scrapping the annual test for classic cars - the government worked out that most classics were generally better maintained than most modern cars. No safety inspection in NZ - can you imagine the number of boy racers hacking down their springs with an angle grinder. A lot of people would have no idea that funny noise from the front of their car was the brake pad backing grinding on the disc surface.


You seem to be under the impression that doesn't happen now, with a WoF system :weird:

[unstuck]

The current system should stay,but a WOF fail should come with an instant fine for driving a vehicle not up to WOF standards.

Plus instant immpoundment of the vehicle and instant suspension of DL until the fine is paid and the vehicle bought up to standard.

This within 30 days or the vehicle is crushed .

A law should be drafted so no right of complaint is available.

People with cut springs and other uncertified mod's should simply have the vehicle crushed on site and be banned from driving for life.

Prisons should be built in Australia or America for repeat offenders,,,and their passports should canceled.

Would seem a little harsh for someone who fails because their washer bottle is not full, not sure I like the idea personally.:msn-wink:

[Drew]

As far as I'm aware it's quite common for testing stations to carry out a WOF inspection without conducting a road test.

I have only ever had two people refuse to allow me to ride their bikes.

They got told "no test ride, no WOF".Took my dirty okd SRAD for a WOF at the testing staion. The brake test didn't include the rear brake, and I pushed it forward on foot and grabbed the brakes. He was satisfied, WOF gained.

[Scuba_Steve]

The current system should stay,but a WOF fail should come with an instant fine for driving a vehicle not up to WOF standards.

Plus instant immpoundment of the vehicle and instant suspension of DL until the fine is paid and the vehicle bought up to standard.

This within 30 days or the vehicle is crushed .

A law should be drafted so no right of complaint is available.

People with cut springs and other uncertified mod's should simply have the vehicle crushed on site and be banned from driving for life.

Prisons should be built in Australia or America for repeat offenders,,,and their passports should canceled.


& if it ever came in I would laugh at you so hard when you failed on a frivolous "issue" which you then couldn't rectify because your vehicle was impounded... genius you are :facepalm:

[unstuck]

VTNZ down her used to go for a drive around the block when doing warrants but they dont do it anymore. The only thing that gets taken for a road test nowadays is my bike, and he gives it a good ride too, not just around the block. Boys will be boys.:2thumbsup

[Akzle]

The current system should stay,but a WOF fail should come with an instant fine for driving a vehicle not up to WOF standards.

Plus instant immpoundment of the vehicle and instant suspension of DL until the fine is paid and the vehicle bought up to standard.

This within 30 days or the vehicle is crushed .

A law should be drafted so no right of complaint is available.

People with cut springs and other uncertified mod's should simply have the vehicle crushed on site and be banned from driving for life.

Prisons should be built in Australia or America for repeat offenders,,,and their passports should canceled.

sometimes i agree with you. this is not one of them. this is one of the times i think you're a fucking muppet, and i look at that little bit that says "auckland", and i think "man, that affirms everything everyone thinks about them"

i think people like you and ocean should be put on an airplane.
to the sun.

[98tls]

& if it ever came in I would laugh at you so hard when you failed on a frivolous "issue" which you then couldn't rectify because your vehicle was impounded... genius you are :facepalm:

As would i.Thing is how many times do any of us inspect brake pads/discs etc etc ?sure many would notice a problem but many more wouldnt have a clue.The fact that at least once every 6 months the cars put on a hoist and a basic inspection is done makes it worth keeping,if the bloke doing said inspection to someone like my old ladys car mentioned that the pads/discs or whatever were coming up to replacement time then she would go ahead and get them replaced,if it wasnt for the wof she would have no idea.

[Road kill]

sometimes i agree with you. this is not one of them. this is one of the times i think you're a fucking muppet, and i look at that little bit that says "auckland", and i think "man, that affirms everything everyone thinks about them"

i think people like you and ocean should be put on an airplane.
to the sun.


Chur,,,flattered as bro'.:niceone:

[neels]

,if the bloke doing said inspection to someone like my old ladys car mentioned that the pads/discs or whatever were coming up to replacement time then she would go ahead and get them replaced,if it wasnt for the wof she would have no idea.
Yep, I had a good wof man like that (must find out where he's moved to), would point out stuff that wasn't a fail but needed attention. Much like the one mentioned earlier though, he saw the need for an extensive road test whenever I took my ducati or my son's GSXR in for a WOF

[Ocean1]

It's a scam. Comparing neighbouring states with the same fleet and the same culture and different/no testing shows no statistically relevant difference in accident rates.

In spite of which a vast gaggle of concerned citizens will invariably agree that the evidence suggests that it makes no difference... but we need them anyway, 'cause of all them other guys.

[unstuck]

I get a fair few vehicles coming to me for pre warrant checks nowadays, Whereas they used to come after the warrant to get shit fixed so they could get one. Things are changing.Slowly.:yes:

[98tls]

I have never once heard a news story about a fatal accident resulting from mechanical failure. Yet every day theres usually a story about Joe Blogs crossing the center line and killing babies. I would rather see annual license tests. And actual tests that test driver skill. Like licensing in Finland. If you are involved in a crash. Immediately invalidates you license and you can't drive until you can prove you have the skills required.

So if some dickhead rear ends me because the road was wet and his tyres were fucked i have to prove i have the skills to drive,give me the wof system anytime thanks.As to those that want to do away with it and have the cops spend all day ordering cars off the road lets just remember theres not enough cops to sort out burgs etc let alone peoples cars.

[haydes55]

So if some dickhead rear ends me because the road was wet and his tyres were fucked i have to prove i have the skills to drive,give me the wof system anytime thanks.As to those that want to do away with it and have the cops spend all day ordering cars off the road lets just remember theres not enough cops to sort out burgs etc let alone peoples cars.


Just if you're at fault in an accident or if you could of avoided the accident

[98tls]

Just if you're at fault in an accident or if you could of avoided the accident

Just as well Katman aint a copper over there then eh.

[Akzle]

Just if you're at fault in an accident or if you could of avoided the accident

could have*

be grateful there aren't grammar police, who will revoke your license to speak if you fuck up english.

[Scuba_Steve]

....As to those that want to do away with it and have the cops spend all day ordering cars off the road lets just remember theres not enough cops to sort out burgs etc let alone peoples cars.

That's because they're all out running scams, if ordering cars off the road is just as profitable they'll happily turn their attention to that as machine's take over the scamming; they'll need a reason to keep human cops as the Govt looks to further profit I mean cut costs

[Akzle]

they'll need a reason to keep human cops as the Govt looks to further profit I mean cut costs

i think we should just sell 49% of them to china, that's good for the economoney

[98tls]

That's because they're all out running scams, if ordering cars off the road is just as profitable they'll happily turn their attention to that as machine's take over the scamming; they'll need a reason to keep human cops as the Govt looks to further profit I mean cut costs

Nope,most of there times spent attending calls from wives getting a hiding/kids ringing to say there mothers getting a hiding or countless similar issues,starts getting busy on dole day then worse on Sundays when the moneys gone over the bar/TAB or similar,a week before Christmas day theres a quiet period then Christmas eve after the holiday pays gone once again over the bar/TAB or similar its all on again.Sad but true.

[AllanB]

Ah feck ....... who posted this?

Needed. Period.

Frequency may be debated but without a WOF system there would be some seriously dodgey vehicles our their aimed at your loved ones.

[Akzle]

Ah feck ....... who posted this?

Needed. Period.

Frequency may be debated but without a WOF system there would be some seriously dodgey vehicles our their aimed at your loved ones.

yes but theyd write themselvs off quickly, no?

Id give it a 2 year adjustment period. Carmageddon. After that peopl might work out they actually have to take some responsibility for themselves.
Or die.

And i have some 2 foot steel spikes i want to weld to the cyclist bars on my ute...

[ducatilover]

Frequency may be debated but without a WOF system there would be some seriously dodgey vehicles our their aimed at your loved ones.

Already are, and no the WoF system has no effect on this.
The WoF system is handy, people with little mechanical knowledge do need their cars checked, for our safety and theirs.
Yes, we need to introduce higher standards of car care where possible (I for one, am pedantic and always help out mates too)
6 monthly checks are fine in my head, there's no false sense of security either. People who drive and say the WoF will pick up the issue, will be doing it anyway. Then their wheel bearing collapses and they die, then others might, not likely, learn.


I'm a pessimist tonight, I was going to do some retail therapy but the interwebs has gone too slow for eBay, so fuck ya all!:bleh:

[SS90]

Already are, and no the WoF system has no effect on this.
The WoF system is handy, people with little mechanical knowledge do need their cars checked, for our safety and theirs.
Yes, we need to introduce higher standards of car care where possible (I for one, am pedantic and always help out mates too)
6 monthly checks are fine in my head, there's no false sense of security either. People who drive and say the WoF will pick up the issue, will be doing it anyway. Then their wheel bearing collapses and they die, then others might, not likely, learn.


I'm a pessimist tonight, I was going to do some retail therapy but the interwebs has gone too slow for eBay, so fuck ya all!:bleh:

He is not wrong.

Over the years I have seen some shocking bikes expecting WOF in NZ, and genuinely surprised if they fail.

But, as always, education is the key.

[jonbuoy]

Turns out we already have that system, I'm sure Scummy could tell you about pink stickers
Oh and people will start taking responsibility when we bring in sane laws like the rest of the world are either on or moving to, i.e. no WoF




Yes!





You seem to be under the impression that doesn't happen now, with a WoF system :weird:

I guess that's down to the WOF guys not noticing - supposed to be certified - maybe if its done discretely no one picks it up. I´m sure if a car came in dragging its arse on its bump stops it would/should raise an eyebrow.

[gammaguy]

In New Zealand we have such a piss poor "she'll be right" attitude that I shudder to think what we'd have out on the road if there weren't a periodic opportunity to ensure faults are remedied.

Not to mention the number eight wire mentality when it comes to fixing and maintaining increasingly sophisticated vehicles

[Kickaha]

Needed. Period.

Frequency may be debated

Going by the crap I see going across pits and on hoists it should be every three months and that might not be often enough

[5150]

i think people like you and ocean should be put on an airplane.
to the sun.

At night ofcourse

[Ocean1]

Already are, and no the WoF system has no effect on this.


The WoF system is handy, people with little mechanical knowledge do need their cars checked, for our safety and theirs.


Classic. WOF's make no difference..... BUT them other guys need them anyway.


Not to mention the number eight wire mentality when it comes to fixing and maintaining increasingly sophisticated vehicles

That sophistocation represents the biggest improvement in road safety in the history of the automobile, by the length of the main straight. A modern car that hasn't seen a professional mechanic for years is several orders of magnatude safer than the leading brands of 30 years ago. It's also true that level of complexity is increasingly beyond the ability of your local mechanic to assess, much less repair. So, again, outside of the obvious gravy train for small local garages what's the point in our current WOF system?

[Katman]

That sophistocation represents the biggest improvement in road safety in the history of the automobile, by the length of the main straight. A modern car that hasn't seen a professional mechanic for years is several orders of magnatude safer than the leading brands of 30 years ago. It's also true that level of complexity is increasingly beyond the ability of your local mechanic to assess, much less repair. So, again, outside of the obvious gravy train for small local garages what's the point in our current WOF system?

While the complexity of modern cars is many times that of 30 year old ones and the level of safety in an accident has been vastly improved it doesn't change the fact that many components wear out in exactly the same manner as older vehicles.

[Drew]

While the complexity of modern cars is many times that of 30 year old ones and the level of safety in an accident has been vastly improved it doesn't change the fact that many components wear out in exactly the same manner as older vehicles.

I'm not advocating one way or te other here. But although what you say is true, it lacks perspective of several flaws in the system.

Shocks for example. If they aren't leaking fluid, the pass a warrant. Now how can that be? My brothers Pulsar is one of the hardest cars to drive, I've ever been in. There feels to be no fluid in the rear shocks at all, but it's still legal.

[Scuba_Steve]

If you really want road safety in NZ, as someone mentioned earlier have an annual licence test.
WoF does next to nothing for road safety, costs more & more each year as it IS a profit making exercise, provides a false sense of security, stops or delays people getting problems checked (why get problems checked outside of WoF when you're going to be forced to pay for a WoF anyways), & doesn't stop the big problems anyways like cut springs & bald tyres.
It has no real world value, the disadvantages are far in excess of the advantages it really needs to be scrapped.

[unstuck]

I had a car here a couple of weeks ago, a 94 bluebird that had failed on right hand shocks being bouncy( I thought they were supposed to bounce) they seemed ok to me, so I took it to the VTNZ and it passed no worries.:wacko: Silly me, did myself out of some work there.:facepalm:

[Katman]

I'm not advocating one way or te other here. But although what you say is true, it lacks perspective of several flaws in the system.

Shocks for example. If they aren't leaking fluid, the pass a warrant. Now how can that be? My brothers Pulsar is one of the hardest cars to drive, I've ever been in. There feels to be no fluid in the rear shocks at all, but it's still legal.

Clearly if there is no damping apparent in the shock then it should fail the inspection - regardless of whether it is showing visible signs of leaking oil.

I can't speak for every other issuing authority but I can assure you that I treat the process very seriously where safety is an issue.

[unstuck]

The COF system seems to be a lot tougher these day down here. But the WOF seems to be the same. I am not sure of the reliability of the rolling roads for the brake test either, there seems to be a lot of conflicting data coming from the one at our local, but they did say they were getting it seen to. I guess thats not gonna help the ones who have failed though due to inaccurate readings.

[Scuba_Steve]

VTNZ are known to fail new brakes in cars because their machines can't handle them, the pads need to be worn in a bit before their machines start giving proper readings

[Drew]

The COF system seems to be a lot tougher these day down here. But the WOF seems to be the same. I am not sure of the reliability of the rolling roads for the brake test either, there seems to be a lot of conflicting data coming from the one at our local, but they did say they were getting it seen to. I guess thats not gonna help the ones who have failed though due to inaccurate readings.Dunno about the COF thing either. Our truck failed on the leaf spring slider things, (fair enough, it was missing one and the others had no rubber at all), but to fix the king pin slop, everyone told us to just grease the shit out of them. We bought a new set, but couldn't press the pin out. So we replaced all the externals and filled them with grease. Boom, COF.

Also, have they changed the rules on dual wheels? We've got a big difference in tread depth between the two tyres on the left rear, but they passed and I thought that was a no-no too.

[unstuck]

Dunno about the COF thing either. Our truck failed on the leaf spring slider things, (fair enough, it was missing one and the others had no rubber at all), but to fix the king pin slop, everyone told us to just grease the shit out of them. We bought a new set, but couldn't press the pin out. So we replaced all the externals and filled them with grease. Boom, COF.

Also, have they changed the rules on dual wheels? We've got a big difference in tread depth between the two tyres on the left rear, but they passed and I thought that was a no-no too.

We used to get away with one decent set of rubber on one pair of axles(drivers) but the other set would pass with bugger all tread. But I suppose that is only relevant on dual drivers.:wacko:

Luckily our local guys are a good bunch of blokes and are willing to tell you what to do to bring vehicles up to spec.:2thumbsup

[Ocean1]

While the complexity of modern cars is many times that of 30 year old ones and the level of safety in an accident has been vastly improved it doesn't change the fact that many components wear out in exactly the same manner as older vehicles.

They take a fucking sight longer to do that, though. So if we're being consistent here WOFs should now be required about every five years.

But as they don't actually improve road safety stats it makes even more sense to do away with them altogether.

[Katman]

They take a fucking sight longer to do that, though. So if we're being consistent here WOFs should now be required about every five years.


Tyres don't.

Light bulbs don't.

Brakes don't.

In fact, most components on a car don't wear out any slower than those of 30 years ago.

You're just talking through a hole in your head.

[Erelyes]

Bit of a catch-22 I guess. People that spend $60k on a vehicle are more likely to be able to afford to service it and look after it.

Whereas low income earners in a late 80's import, can't.

The solution might be to firstly make public transport less shit, and secondly encourage a cultural change where people are happy using it. Might take a while for either though...

Another tidbit. Took my '00 Subaru for a WOF a couple years back and was failed on 'front brake pads worn' which I thought was odd as I'd replaced them a year or so before. Got given a farkin ridiculous quote for pads and install at the same time.
Jacked it up at home, measured them, compared measurements to factory service manual (they were half worn), took pics, took it back and went 'please explain'.

They admitted that they did a 'passing glance' at them but didn't actually measure them. Further admitted that it had passed service tests just fine. They took em out, measured them, found them OK, passed the WOF.

This was at a Subaru dealership I might add. Quite often the WOF inspectors are talking through a hole in their head....

Now, given the VIRM says that pads that measure less than the manufacturer's thickness must be failed;
- Do you think VTNZ measure pad thickness?
- If they do, do you think they have the recommended thickness specs for every make and model of car on the road?

[unstuck]

Never seen any tester measure pad thickness, would be a nightmare for them to measure shoes too.:rolleyes:

[Drew]

Never seen any tester measure pad thickness, would be a nightmare for them to measure shoes too.:rolleyes:There are usually wear indicators on drum brakes...Took it off my old GSX so the dude couldn't tell.

[SMOKEU]

People with cut springs and other uncertified mod's should simply have the vehicle crushed on site and be banned from driving for life.


Cutties are all good if they're done properly. My mate has them in his Legacy and it handles mint at the 220kmh+ on the GPS that we've tested it at.

[Drew]

Cutties are all good if they're done properly. My mate has them in his Legacy and it handles mint at the 220kmh+ on the GPS that we've tested it at.

What a load of fucken shit.

Sure, it sits lower and the spring is essentially stiffer due to there being less of it to compress, but unless he's got shortened shocks, or top out spacers in them, it's possible for the spring to come out of it's seat and make one corner sit well high or low. Lets see how it handles then!

[buggerit]

Cutties are all good if they're done properly. My mate has them in his Legacy and it handles mint at the 220kmh+ on the GPS that we've tested it at.
So you fucked up all the steering and suspension geometry and it goes fucking well, excellent,mate your wasted here,should be on a v8 supercar team:headbang::headbang:

[unstuck]

Cutties are all good if they're done properly. My mate has them in his Legacy and it handles mint at the 220kmh+ on the GPS that we've tested it at.

If it was done properly, there would be no need to cut the springs.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UT6oZqYij8U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:devil2::devil2:

[scumdog]

Never seen any tester measure pad thickness, would be a nightmare for them to measure shoes too.:rolleyes:

And imagine the screams if the price of a WOF went up to cover the extra hour involved with removing all the wheels and checking break-pads/shoes....:wacko:

[scumdog]

Cutties are all good if they're done properly. My mate has them in his Legacy and it handles mint at the 220kmh+ on the GPS that we've tested it at.

The Subaru factory race crew must be clawing at his door to find out how he did it eh....<_<:rolleyes:

[FROSTY]

We need to keep the WOF system exactly how it is. Why?
Because NZ society has created a situation where most of its people are wrapped in cotton wool and indeed expect to be.
The way to get rid of the WOF system is for ALL motorists to accept personal responsibility for their actions.
That means personally ensure tyres aren't bald.Brakes work properly.Rust isn't dangerous etc etc.
Most people will come up with a raft of rediculous excuses for not accepting personal responsibility.

Take for example those happilly driving around on bald tyres because they feel they have 28 days to get a WOF

[oneofsix]

We need to keep the WOF system exactly how it is. Why?
Because NZ society has created a situation where most of its people are wrapped in cotton wool and indeed expect to be.
The way to get rid of the WOF system is for ALL motorists to accept personal responsibility for their actions.
That means personally ensure tyres aren't bald.Brakes work properly.Rust isn't dangerous etc etc.
Most people will come up with a raft of rediculous excuses for not accepting personal responsibility.

Take for example those happilly driving around on bald tyres because they feel they have 28 days to get a WOF

Looked at another way your arguments are exactly why we should abolish the WOF system. Whilst people think the WOF system is a cotton wool wrap it is in fact nothing of the sort, see above discussion on brake pads. The WOF system can't check anything they can't see without disassembling the vehicle or part there of, cover the rust and it passes. Some of the checks aren't even safety related and some safety checks have already been dropped out of the system. Why not make it obvious that noone other than you is responsible for the safety of the vehicle by dropping the :bs: system? Oh, that's right it makes money for VTNZ and MTA :argh:

The governments have removed the cotton wool where it has suited them.

[oldrider]

NZ society has created a situation where most of its people are wrapped in cotton wool and indeed expect to be.

The way to get rid of the WOF system is for ALL motorists to accept personal responsibility for their actions.


True! (But have you ever wondered why?) :confused:

A) The vast majority of New Zealanders will always be followers because it's hard to soar like an eagle when you are taught to scratch among the turkeys!

B) The meaning of "Personal responsibility" has been systematically removed by the brain washing process of NZ's State education system!

[avgas]

scam. I am yet to be crashed into someone who doesn't have a wof - so clearly its not the vehicles fault that they crash.

[scumdog]

scam. I am yet to be crashed into someone who doesn't have a wof - so clearly its not the vehicles fault that they crash.

Yup, remove the drivers and the crash rate will plummet.

Cheap-as too...

[SMOKEU]

Sure, it sits lower and the spring is essentially stiffer due to there being less of it to compress, but unless he's got shortened shocks, or top out spacers in them, it's possible for the spring to come out of it's seat and make one corner sit well high or low. Lets see how it handles then!

It doesn't bottom out much, and seems to sit nicely. It does sometimes knock at the rear at high speeds though, but turning the subwoofer up usually drowns it out.


So you fucked up all the steering and suspension geometry and it goes fucking well, excellent,mate your wasted here,should be on a v8 supercar team:headbang::headbang:

It wasn't my handiwork.


If it was done properly, there would be no need to cut the springs.


An angle grinder is all good.


The Subaru factory race crew must be clawing at his door to find out how he did it eh....<_<:rolleyes:

The sure must be.

[Ocean1]

Tyres don't.

Light bulbs don't.

Brakes don't.

In fact, most components on a car don't wear out any slower than those of 30 years ago.

You're just talking through a hole in your head.

My but you're an obnoxious cunt. It's not difficult to see why you're keen for the govt to continue propping up your business by doing your marketing work for you.

[Katman]

My but you're an obnoxious cunt. It's not difficult to see why you're keen for the govt to continue propping up your business by doing your marketing work for you.

Dude, I'm just pointing out that you're full of shit.

Nothing personal like.

[Ocean1]

Dude, I'm just pointing out that you're full of shit.

Nothing personal like.

Which I'd take almost seriously, from anyone other than a hypocrite.

[Laava]

Is a fairly subjective topic surely. Some people would have no idea that their car has faulty steering or needed a new set of brakes until it was too late. So they need to be regularly made aware of maintenance issues etc. it seems to make sense especially on the older vehicles. Bikes included obviously. Personally i'd rather not be spending the money but it is a system designed for all so I don't have a problem with it.
Having said that, one of the things my wifes car got failed on was that her brake fluid was not at the max level. Halfway between min and max was not good enough that day. One off tho as far as I can recall.

[unstuck]

Is a fairly subjective topic surely. Some people would have no idea that their car has faulty steering or needed a new set of brakes until it was too late. So they need to be regularly made aware of maintenance issues etc. it seems to make sense especially on the older vehicles. Bikes included obviously. Personally i'd rather not be spending the money but it is a system designed for all so I don't have a problem with it.
Having said that, one of the things my wifes car got failed on was that her brake fluid was not at the max level. Halfway between min and max was not good enough that day. One off tho as far as I can recall.

Never heard of that one before, have heard of being failed for insufficient powersteering fluid though.

[Laava]

Yeah insufficient is one thing but this was between the levels. As it was not the sole thing it failed on I just topped it up and cracked on but had it been the only thing I would have argued the point. My wife refuses to go back there.

[unstuck]

Same with the powersteering fluid I mentioned, half way between marks on the dipstick= insufficient=fail. Guy was well pissed off. Dont blame him really, but I usually top all that stuff up when I am doing a pre check.:devil2:

[Brian d marge]

As I said

There are people out there that struggle with shoelaces

So we need a check on the the vehicles they are driving

for every ones peace of mind

but those checks need to be done by someone competent , and If I were failed for something that was plainly safe , i would be pissed off ( now heres the rub , I possibly am more competent that the inspector , so can I pull rank??? so to speak ??)

bad move when they went private ,,,oh wait , privatising is good isnt it ,,,my bad


as u were

Stephen

sorry for the Hamlet quote

[ducatilover]

Classic. WOF's make no difference..... BUT them other guys need them anyway.


Not sure if that's a dig or not? But, the WoF system doesn't stop muppets driving with cut springs etc etc, BUT, it is handy as I said, for people who have little or no mechanical knowledge whatsoever and are incapable of checking their cars themselves, these people (most people) do like their car to be reasonably sound/safe. Which is understandable as a car, to many, is a tool and they need it checked to make sure it's still in working condition.

I think WoF checks are a good idea. I agree with the attitude thing to an extent also.
I would rather have the majority of clueless people driving on reasonable tyres than bald ones.

[Ocean1]

Not sure if that's a dig or not?

Nah, not really dude. It was just such a good example of the double-think we're all too good at.

I'm not suggesting WOFs shouldn't be banned, if my mechanic sent me a wee reminder every six months I'd book in for a checkup, I don't have time to do it myself and he's better at it anyway. I was simply pointing out that almost all of the comparative studies show that statistically they don't affect accident rates at all, so why legislate for them?

Similar argument re cell phone use in cars, there's no difference between accident rates with people using a hand-held phone or a hands-free unit, and yet when the law was draughted hands-free units were excluded from the ban. And the authorities at the time knew those facts, and wrote the rules up that way anyway.

It's an irrational blind spot in our makeup, but it shouldn't stop us from being aware of it and at least trying to make logically coherent decisions. The natural conclusion of legislating against any behaviour that most of us want prevented in OTHER people is that none of us will be able to leave the house without breaking a dozen laws. I'm not sure that's not the case already, I don't pay much attention to such petty shit.

[ducatilover]

I'm not suggesting WOFs shouldn't be banned, if my mechanic sent me a wee reminder every six months I'd book in for a checkup, I don't have time to do it myself and he's better at it anyway. I was simply pointing out that almost all of the comparative studies show that statistically they don't affect accident rates at all, so why legislate for them?



Do the studies cover our situation exactly? People used to their cars being checked, then all of a sudden they don't need to and could potentially save $100 a year? I think the number of dangerous vehicles will increase without WoF checks here. Many people rely on it, as previously stated, for checking their tyres/suspension etc. Without their fear of getting fines for no WoF the attitude will become very lax.
I do think the WoF system could be improved upon.

Be interesting to see how many mechanics would be out of jobs without the WoF system, I'm a mechanic (apparently I held a spanner once) and it wouldn't effect me at all due to the part of the trade I'm working in, but I would bet a fair few garages will fall on their faces without the typical unsafe shit needing repairs.

[pete376403]

Never seen any tester measure pad thickness, would be a nightmare for them to measure shoes too.:rolleyes:
I believe that the testers are not allowed to dismantle any part of the car for inspection, so removing wheels to check for disk and pad thickness is not allowed, nor removing drums to check brake shoe wear.
With bikes of course the disks and (sometimes) pads can be inspected without any dismantling, so many of us will be aware of WOFs failed becuase disks are worn beyonf the limit that the makers have helpfully stamped on them.

[Ocean1]

Do the studies cover our situation exactly? People used to their cars being checked, then all of a sudden they don't need to and could potentially save $100 a year? I think the number of dangerous vehicles will increase without WoF checks here. Many people rely on it, as previously stated, for checking their tyres/suspension etc. Without their fear of getting fines for no WoF the attitude will become very lax.
I do think the WoF system could be improved upon.

Be interesting to see how many mechanics would be out of jobs without the WoF system, I'm a mechanic (apparently I held a spanner once) and it wouldn't effect me at all due to the part of the trade I'm working in, but I would bet a fair few garages will fall on their faces without the typical unsafe shit needing repairs.

The studies I read were American and Aussie comparisons across states that had different inspection requirements. There have also been a couple of studies that have taken advantage of changes in inspection requirements, adopting or abandoning them. None that I'm aware of from NZ, presumably because we've pretty much always had a WOF system. But here's the thing: you should have a fucking good reason to force people to spend their money on something. And the available indications are that we don't have a good reason. And no, keeping mechanics employed isn't a good enough reason, fine upstanding body of fellas though they are.

The fact remains that faults in cars that seem likely to affect accident rates... don't. Whether that's because the degree of safety compromise involved is too small to measure or whether maybe drivers mitigate risk by being more careful nobody knows.

Only slightly related, but the event that caused a review and subsequent tightening of WOF reg's regarding body rust in cars was an accident where a woman turned across the front of a truck on a main highway, killing herself and her kids. Turns out the car had been pop riveted together across a fairly high percentage of it's width to repair damage from a previous accident. Was the repair a safety issue? Fuck yes. Would the woman and her kids died anyway? Yes. The benefit of testing for dodgy repairs in a monocoque passenger car shell? In that case, fuck all.

[Scuba_Steve]

Be interesting to see how many mechanics would be out of jobs without the WoF system, I'm a mechanic (apparently I held a spanner once) and it wouldn't effect me at all due to the part of the trade I'm working in, but I would bet a fair few garages will fall on their faces without the typical unsafe shit needing repairs.

Well here's the kicker, most [car] mechanics would like to see the WoF scrapped

[buggerit]

I believe that the testers are not allowed to dismantle any part of the car for inspection, so removing wheels to check for disk and pad thickness is not allowed, nor removing drums to check brake shoe wear.
With bikes of course the disks and (sometimes) pads can be inspected without any dismantling, so many of us will be aware of WOFs failed becuase disks are worn beyonf the limit that the makers have helpfully stamped on them.

Pad thickness you can see with a mirror , a lot of drum brakes have an inspection hole in the backing plate with a rubber bung in it.
The guy that does my warrants is an A grade mechanic , he checks and tells me if he thinks anything is coming up for replacement even though it passes
a warrant, he may say "I think your front pads have got a couple of months left in them". With testing stations you do not build up that relationship you
do with a trusted mechanic and I would prefer someone I trust checking rather than gambling they are a qualified mechanic and not someone who has had 5 years washing cars in the local car yard as their experience to train as a warrant of fitness inspector.

[Katman]

Well here's the kicker, most [car] mechanics would like to see the WoF scrapped

Do you have a source for that or did you just make it up?

[ducatilover]

Well here's the kicker, most [car] mechanics would like to see the WoF scrapped I have yet to meet one that shares the same sentiment, I've had many a chat recently about the WoF system changes.


The studies I read were American and Aussie comparisons across states that had different inspection requirements. There have also been a couple of studies that have taken advantage of changes in inspection requirements, adopting or abandoning them. None that I'm aware of from NZ, presumably because we've pretty much always had a WOF system. But here's the thing: you should have a fucking good reason to force people to spend their money on something. And the available indications are that we don't have a good reason. And no, keeping mechanics employed isn't a good enough reason, fine upstanding body of fellas though they are.

The fact remains that faults in cars that seem likely to affect accident rates... don't. Whether that's because the degree of safety compromise involved is too small to measure or whether maybe drivers mitigate risk by being more careful nobody knows. So, according to studies is sweet as to have fucked shocks and bald tyres :bleh:


Only slightly related, but the event that caused a review and subsequent tightening of WOF reg's regarding body rust in cars was an accident where a woman turned across the front of a truck on a main highway, killing herself and her kids. Turns out the car had been pop riveted together across a fairly high percentage of it's width to repair damage from a previous accident. Was the repair a safety issue? Fuck yes. Would the woman and her kids died anyway? Yes. The benefit of testing for dodgy repairs in a monocoque passenger car shell? In that case, fuck all.
That's actually a very good incentive to tighten the rust rules. Yeah they may have been killed either way, but in a less obscene crash it may be a life saver (you're well clued up and I reckon you'd be better than me at explaining how the transfer of energy in a crash in certain parts of the body is very, very important)

[scumdog]

Well here's the kicker, most [car] mechanics would like to see the WoF scrapped

Troll...;)

[avgas]

They take a fucking sight longer to do that, though. So if we're being consistent here WOFs should now be required about every five years.
This is what I would expect.
But I would compromise to 2 years - as servicing should also be a requirement, and a vehicle serviced a minimum every 2 years will run for longer.

[Motu]

No, I don't think mechanics would like to see WoFs scrapped, but wouldn't be too concerned about not doing them. They are a good fill in, but generally an interruption to the working day. In the days of the Municipal Testing Station garages weren't allowed to do WoFs within a certain radius...but we still did the repairs. I started in the trade in 1970, but it wasn't until I moved out of the Testing Station area in 1984 that I was able to do them, and have been ever since. When you are doing these tests everyday, and you see the faults in cars - no, they are not an irrelevant burden on the consumer, and not a cash cow for repairers. It'd be nice to think that the other road users are as concerned about the condition of their vehicle as you are of yours, the reality is 90% won't fix anything until they are made to.

As far as failing on ridiculous things like empty washer bottles goes, the WoF test these days is more of a compliance test, the vehicle has to be kept in the condition of it's compliance. When washer systems became mandatory, they became part of the safety system of that vehicle. The stories about being able to drive around in an unsafe car in other countries is a myth. We don't want roadside policing of vehicle safety, the current system has more of a freedom of choice.

[Ocean1]

So, according to studies is sweet as to have fucked shocks and bald tyres :bleh:

No, it's just that the risk isn't increased as much as most think. As I said, the difference is apparently smaller than can be reliably measured.


That's actually a very good incentive to tighten the rust rules. Yeah they may have been killed either way, but in a less obscene crash it may be a life saver (you're well clued up and I reckon you'd be better than me at explaining how the transfer of energy in a crash in certain parts of the body is very, very important)

There's more to the story. Someone had done a tolerably good job of bogging up the riveted seam, I'm not sure if that'd been done before it's previous WoF, but you wouldn't have found it in a WoF inspection anyway. You can't legislate agin' fukt in the head, they no listen.

And yeah, the safety designed into the current fleet is responsible for the single largest improvement in road safety from any source whatsoever. Maybe the lesson is design shit so humans can be humans safely, rather than trying to redesign humans, eh?

[ducatilover]

No, it's just that the risk isn't increased as much as most think. As I said, the difference is apparently smaller than can be reliably measured. I'd be interested in seeing exactly how these tests were done. I might just let the Pilot Powers on my Shitsaki go bald then, and not fit the new suspension :headbang:
:bleh:






You can't legislate agin' fukt in the head, they no listen.

And yeah, the safety designed into the current fleet is responsible for the single largest improvement in road safety from any source whatsoever. Maybe the lesson is design shit so humans can be humans safely, rather than trying to redesign humans, eh?

You're right bout the fucked in the head part. I'd be illegal if you could legislate against that...
I think starting a safer system of driver training with new drivers will show a nice improvement. But, dumb cunts will always be dumb cunts.

[Ocean1]

I'd be interested in seeing exactly how these tests were done. I might just let the Pilot Powers on my Shitsaki go bald then, and not fit the new suspension :headbang:
:bleh:

I wasn't clear, I find. The research involved no tests, it involved direct comparisons of accident data between states that had substantially the same fleet, the same mix of roads, traffic density etc etc. The only difference was one state required routine WoF type inspections and the other didn't. There's been several such studies, they show no effective difference in accident stat's.

[oldrider]

Every vehicle should have to pass a WOF every day and drivers sit a driving licence written and practical test every day before being allowed on the road! :Police:

[ducatilover]

I wasn't clear, I find. The research involved no tests, it involved direct comparisons of accident data between states that had substantially the same fleet, the same mix of roads, traffic density etc etc. The only difference was one state required routine WoF type inspections and the other didn't. There's been several such studies, they show no effective difference in accident stat's.

That's quite interesting. I would be keen to see what happened if we abolished the WoF system, but I'm not overly keen on knowing more cars on fucked tyres will be on the roads in the wet. :(

[george formby]

The guy that does my warrants is an A grade mechanic , he checks and tells me if he thinks anything is coming up for replacement even though it passes
a warrant, he may say "I think your front pads have got a couple of months left in them". With testing stations you do not build up that relationship you
do with a trusted mechanic and I would prefer someone I trust checking rather than gambling they are a qualified mechanic and not someone who has had 5 years washing cars in the local car yard as their experience to train as a warrant of fitness inspector.

+1 I take the vehicles to a good mechanic. Even though I'm lucky enough to know how to check things on a day to day basis he does a thorough inspection & has given me the heads up on numerous occasions. He ain't the cheapest but has proven time after to be the real deal. No spotty oiks in his garage either, all his lads are good.
I have not read the whole thread but why would anybody want to use a vehicle which is not regularly checked over for safety & reliability?

[kiwi cowboy]

So how do you account for the times that I get bikes in for WOFs where the owners have deliberately tried to hide a fault of their bike?

Fuck that:(if they do that there muppets.
my bike don't look flash but I like to think I keep it up to wof standard all the time with checking and welcome the wof guys going over it to make sure im checking it right.
They don't pick up much and if they do its very minor and not really a safety issue.
Having a good relationship with the shop is a help cos they don't try to con ya:devil2:.

[kiwi cowboy]

All a WOF guarantees is that some numbity will assume their vehicle is safe because it has a WOF and they will never check for themselves.[/QUOTE]

yes but the problem is said numbity will not check there vehicle anyway because they wouldn't know one end of the thing from the other and wouldn't know where to start.

[kiwi cowboy]

Pad thickness you can see with a mirror , a lot of drum brakes have an inspection hole in the backing plate with a rubber bung in it.
The guy that does my warrants is an A grade mechanic , he checks and tells me if he thinks anything is coming up for replacement even though it passes
a warrant, he may say "I think your front pads have got a couple of months left in them". With testing stations you do not build up that relationship you
do with a trusted mechanic and I would prefer someone I trust checking rather than gambling they are a qualified mechanic and not someone who has had 5 years washing cars in the local car yard as their experience to train as a warrant of fitness inspector.

well said that man re the relationship and trust.

[superjackal]

I think it has some merits, but some garages do use it to get themselves work. Thats why I urge most people to use VTNZ, they dont fix cars, so have no interest in generating work. Just my 2pence worth.:yes:

Guess it's all about trust. If mechanics abuse us it's on their conscience. I'd sooner have my mechanic advise me on work that needs doing, not on whether something is "passable".