The strangest of noises

[the bear zxr]

Hi guys, yes, I'm one of those irritating people who join in order to tap the wealth of knowledge available.... so here goes:

In the last few weeks, approaching a month, my 1989 ZXR250a has developed a "clicking noise" which sounds suspiciously and worryingly like it may be gearbox related... now I DO have a second engine which i am blue-printing and tuning... but it is not quite street ready and there's no way in hell im "finishing" it half assed. so i need this click gone for the moment...

Ok; the background:
It is relative to road speed- the faster I go, the faster it gets,
It is also relative to gear selection- the closer to first, the closer to my racing heart when I hear it!!!
It occurs when the clutch is in or out,
It occurs when the engine is not running..

It does NOT occur when in neutral.


So, for all you gurus out there, come forth and help my poor, undersized baby!

Cheers,
Bryn

[Rhys]

Tight spot on the chain ?

Push the bike forward with the motor off and in neutral

[Mom]

Seized link in your chain.

[mossy1200]

Front sprocket final bearing. Check maybe you don't have the chain tight or a stretched spot in it. Often its a result of the chain being to tight by previous owners of smaller bikes due to lack of maintenance knowledge.

After that your internals. Possible a piece of clutch plate, fibre or basket but stops in neutral indicates sprocket bearing under load. Any oil loss around sprocket finer than chain oil?

[the bear zxr]

Hi guys,
Talk about a swift response,

It can't be chain related; it did it with the knackered chain, and now with a two day old one. next step is to look at sprocket... but I asked the shop after they put the chain on (no garage in centre city :weep: so eeeeverything is shop done :/ ) whether theyd seen any undue wear on the front sprocket and thy said nope...

Also, i should mention it is not one "click" per chain rotation, nor does it have a relationship with the tooth position (as in if you marked a tooth, the click would occur with the tooth in different positions each time)

[mossy1200]

Hi guys,
Talk about a swift response,

It can't be chain related; it did it with the knackered chain, and now with a two day old one. next step is to look at sprocket... but I asked the shop after they put the chain on (no garage in centre city :weep: so eeeeverything is shop done :/ ) whether theyd seen any undue wear on the front sprocket and thy said nope...

Also, i should mention it is not one "click" per chain rotation, nor does it have a relationship with the tooth position (as in if you marked a tooth, the click would occur with the tooth in different positions each time)

Going from knackered chain to new chain adjusted by shop its looking even more likely final drive bearing. You can bring it to my place and ill have a look.

[the bear zxr]

Front sprocket final bearing. Check maybe you don't have the chain tight or a stretched spot in it. Often its a result of the chain being to tight by previous owners of smaller bikes due to lack of maintenance knowledge.

After that your internals. Possible a piece of clutch plate, fibre or basket but stops in neutral indicates sprocket bearing under load. Any oil loss around sprocket finer than chain oil?

I'm certain it's internal, the clutch iiis totally shagged (previous owner never opened up (you should have seen the carbon!!!!!) so when I got it the (origonal factory I might add (on a 48,000!!) clutch kind of packed a sad) so thats being replaced next week. Im just trying to cover all angles and get lots of ideas so when I have it apart, I know what to look for...

I've never had this on any other bike before, so it's a shame that it had to happen on my "project bike!!!

Cheers

[Rhys]

the clutch iiis totally shagged (previous owner never opened up (you should have seen the carbon!!!!!) so when I got it the (origonal factory I might add (on a 48,000!!) clutch kind of packed a sad) so thats being replaced next week.

Cheers

zxr's have a wet clutch so should be no carbon

[the bear zxr]

zxr's have a wet clutch so should be no carbon

Sorry I don't follow? If you mean carbon as I stated in a previous post: that was just a reference to how "un-gunned" the bike had been; the carbon was in the piston/valve array...

If I found carbon in my clutch... i think the only response would be to cry and wonder how the hell it got there

[Zrex]

If it happens in one gear only, then you have stripped a tooth off that gear.

[the bear zxr]

If it happens in one gear only, then you have stripped a tooth off that gear.

definately in all gears... As Mossy1200 said, it's starting to sound more and more like a final drive bearing has shat its pants... does anybody know how long this may last before terminal failure, and what sort of damage could i be doing to my gearsets in the mean time...? I really can't be bothered with a complete teardown of the "commuter" engine, when the new one is so close to completion.... but then again; i want top keep two engines- not totally root the current one out of neglect

[Katman]

Ok; the background:
It is relative to road speed- the faster I go, the faster it gets,
It is also relative to gear selection- the closer to first, the closer to my racing heart when I hear it!!!
It occurs when the clutch is in or out,
It occurs when the engine is not running..

It does NOT occur when in neutral.


So it only happens when the motor is in gear?

How have you determined that it happens in gear while the engine is not running?

[the bear zxr]

So it only happens when the motor is in gear?

How have you determined that it happens in gear while the engine is not running?

As in the first post, yes, it occurs in all gears, when the engine is running or not, whether the clutch is engaged or not

[G4L4XY]

Hi guys, yes, I'm one of those irritating people who join in order to tap the wealth of knowledge available.... so here goes:

In the last few weeks, approaching a month, my 1989 ZXR250a has developed a "clicking noise" which sounds suspiciously and worryingly like it may be gearbox related... now I DO have a second engine which i am blue-printing and tuning... but it is not quite street ready and there's no way in hell im "finishing" it half assed. so i need this click gone for the moment...

Ok; the background:
It is relative to road speed- the faster I go, the faster it gets,
It is also relative to gear selection- the closer to first, the closer to my racing heart when I hear it!!!
It occurs when the clutch is in or out,
It occurs when the engine is not running..

It does NOT occur when in neutral.


So, for all you gurus out there, come forth and help my poor, undersized baby!

Cheers,
Bryn


How does it not occur when it's running if it also occurs when running lol

[the bear zxr]

How does it not occur when it's running if it also occurs when running lol

because it clearly has nothing to do with the engine itself.. only the gearbox... whether the engine is running or not makes no difference to what parts move when the bike is rolling

[buggerit]

Does it happen in gear with the clutch in?

[the bear zxr]

So, I'm going to go on the basis that it is the final drive bearing.... and just hope like hell thats the problem... now the challenge is to remove the old one...: the catch: I'm NOT pulling the engine apart... I'm not even gonna take it out of the frame...

Has anybody ever attempted something like this? (removing a bearing, accessible only from the side that it needs to come OUT of, and with the shaft still in place....? I'm thinking along the lines of breaking the inner ball cage apart, removing the balls, then applying heat to remove both the outer and inner races separately... If anybody has any advice or experience I would love to hear it!

(please leave your negativity at the login screen: this place is about advice and exploration..... not "it can't be done" comments which may often be proved wrong!!!)

Cheers guys, Photos will be posted of the operation once it has been attempted!

[the bear zxr]

Does it happen in gear with the clutch in?

Yes, it does

[Katman]

As in the first post, yes, it occurs in all gears, when the engine is running or not, whether the clutch is engaged or not

So if the bike is in gear with the motor not running and the clutch not engaged, how have you determine that the noise is still there?

[Katman]

Has anybody ever attempted something like this? (removing a bearing, accessible only from the side that it needs to come OUT of, and with the shaft still in place....? I'm thinking along the lines of breaking the inner ball cage apart, removing the balls, then applying heat to remove both the outer and inner races separately... If anybody has any advice or experience I would love to hear it!



The bearing will not come out without the cases being split.

The shape of the case castings holds the transmission bearings in place.

[the bear zxr]

So if the bike is in gear with the motor not running and the clutch not engaged, how have you determine that the noise is still there?

ok, this seems to be causing a great deal of confusion, let me clear it up:

If the bike MOVES, it makes the noise.... unless it is in neutral

[bogan]

Does it occur with the engine running and bike in neutral?

It sounds like something in the gearbox, but not happening in neutral suggests it might be the gearbox input shaft rather than the gearbox output shaft...

I'd do a bit more diagnosing before replacing something anyway.

[Katman]

ok, this seems to be causing a great deal of confusion, let me clear it up:

If the bike MOVES, it makes the noise.... unless it is in neutral

So how are you moving the bike if it's in gear with the motor not running and the clutch lever not pulled in?

[the bear zxr]

So how are you moving the bike if it's in gear with the motor not running and the clutch lever not pulled in?

on a hill................

how do you crash start a bike......?

[the bear zxr]

Does it occur with the engine running and bike in neutral?

It sounds like something in the gearbox, but not happening in neutral suggests it might be the gearbox input shaft rather than the gearbox output shaft...

I'd do a bit more diagnosing before replacing something anyway.

Hmmmmmmm, fair point: I'm not sure how I over looked that detail... neutral should still make the output shaft click... but the input shaft will follow the signs I have..

Oh hell, deeper and deeper the problem goes!

[buggerit]

If it happens with bike in gear and with clutch in the bearing behind the sprocket is not rotating to create noise.

[Murray]

(please leave your negativity at the login screen: this place is about advice and exploration..... not "it can't be done" comments which may often be proved wrong!!!)


Welcome to kiwibiker - you have much to learn - may the force be with you

[bogan]

Hmmmmmmm, fair point: I'm not sure how I over looked that detail... neutral should still make the output shaft click... but the input shaft will follow the signs I have..

Oh hell, deeper and deeper the problem goes!

It's not a certainty, as it could be just the extra torque from spinning the input shaft is making something on the output shaft click... The final drive bearing is by far the most common thing to fail in a gearbox I think.

Its a kwaka, get used to that shit :bleh:

[EJK]

(please leave your negativity at the login screen: this place is about advice and exploration..... not "it can't be done" comments which may often be proved wrong!!!)

Cheers guys, Photos will be posted of the operation once it has been attempted!

<img src="http://cdn-usa.gagbay.com/2012/07/you_have_come_to_the_wrong_neighborhood-104972.jpg" />

[the bear zxr]

Its a kwaka, get used to that shit :bleh:

Indeed!!!! :laugh: a quick torque test on the output shaft (lunchtime sprocket removal!!!) and hopefully I'll be able to decipher which end I'm dealing with! god its a pain, but i do love 19,500rpm faaaar too much to think of selling it, at least until I grow up!!!:eek:

[bogan]

Indeed!!!! :laugh: a quick torque test on the output shaft (lunchtime sprocket removal!!!) and hopefully I'll be able to decipher which end I'm dealing with! god its a pain, but i do love 19,500rpm faaaar too much to think of selling it, at least until I grow up!!!:eek:

Yeh I've ridden one a mate had, many many revs! which is a nicely impractical laugh. Good luck with the fix.

[the bear zxr]

without trying to sound too changeabout..... this may be a clutch issue... unless i can come up with a definitive answer, I'll just let you know how the clutch renewal goes, and then go from there!

[Drew]

The bearing will not come out without the cases being split.

The shape of the case castings holds the transmission bearings in place.What he said.

There doesn't seem to be a retaining clip/half ring to hold the bearing in there, on the exploded picture I found, so I would assume it's located by the casings them selves.

Best starting point, drain the oil and see how much metal comes out with it. You might need to pull the sump off too, to be sure.

A buggered output shaft bearing, would normally cause the seal to fail and for oil to leak.

[fridayflash]

good plan, and easy to eliminate fingers x'd eh.
as katman said earlier, your only way to get that output shaft out is to remove and split...ouch!
good luck Herr Thoeming

[the bear zxr]

I'm running on the assumption that the bearing is a press fit with sprocket tension as its only holders, I got an ORIGINAL workshop manual with the bike (a shame the only ever came in japanese; i can't read it! ) not a photocopy; so the pictures are crystal; and there isn't even a hint of an outer lip on the bearing sleeve.... I could be wrong, but they seem to have drawn every other conceivable detail on these diagrams..

[Katman]

on a hill................

how do you crash start a bike......?

Yes, a bike will roll downhill if it's in gear with the motor not running if the clutch lever is pulled in.

As soon as the clutch lever is released the engine either starts or the bike grinds to a halt rather quickly.

So how have you determined that the noise is still there when the motor is in gear with the engine not running and the clutch lever is not pulled in?

[Katman]

I'm running on the assumption that the bearing is a press fit with sprocket tension as its only holders, I got an ORIGINAL workshop manual with the bike (a shame the only ever came in japanese; i can't read it! ) not a photocopy; so the pictures are crystal; and there isn't even a hint of an outer lip on the bearing sleeve.... I could be wrong, but they seem to have drawn every other conceivable detail on these diagrams..

Your assumption is wrong.

[Drew]

I'm running on the assumption that the bearing is a press fit with sprocket tension as its only holders, I got an ORIGINAL workshop manual with the bike (a shame the only ever came in japanese; i can't read it! ) not a photocopy; so the pictures are crystal; and there isn't even a hint of an outer lip on the bearing sleeve.... I could be wrong, but they seem to have drawn every other conceivable detail on these diagrams..I've never encountered a gearbox bearing that was a press fit. They literally fall off and cause all sorts of problems when you have the box shafts in hand. It could be different though, I don't think I've ever done a Kawasaki.

There should be a seal between the bearing and the sprocket. It will come out if you're careful with a screw driver. For the sake of $15 from Seal Imports, do that and have a look at the bearing, you'll be able to see it clearly.

[Katman]

Just checked the workshop manual.

The output shaft bearing is located in the crankcases by a C clip that sits in a slot on the outside surface of the outer race of the bearing and the inside surface of the machined bearing housing of the crankcase.

It ain't going to come out without splitting the cases.

[the bear zxr]

Yes, a bike will roll downhill if it's in gear with the motor not running if the clutch lever is pulled in.

As soon as the clutch lever is released the engine either starts or the bike grinds to a halt rather quickly.

So how have you determined that the noise is still there when the motor is in gear with the engine not running and the clutch lever is not pulled in?

It does keep going for a bit, remember we're talking a 250 here, not a big thumper...

[the bear zxr]

Just checked the workshop manual.

The output shaft bearing is located in the crankcases by a C clip that sits in a slot on the outside surface of the outer race of the bearing and the inside surface of the machined bearing housing of the crankcase.

It ain't going to come out without splitting the cases.

well I hope like hell It can be the clutch or something else then.. there's absolutely no point in me splitting the cases on an engine thats going to be replaced in a matter of weeks..... "ride and pray" might be my only option

[speeding_ant]

Wasn't you shooting up Ghuznee street last night was it?

If it was, your carbs need a damn good cleaning :laugh:

[bogan]

well I hope like hell It can be the clutch or something else then.. there's absolutely no point in me splitting the cases on an engine thats going to be replaced in a matter of weeks..... "ride and pray" might be my only option

I'd caution against that, things like a bearing cage splitting apart has the potential to do a lot of damage to the gearbox, and cause a rear wheel lock. Not worth the risk unless you can identify the problem as not having that potential imo.

[the bear zxr]

Wasn't you shooting up Ghuznee street last night was it?

If it was, your carbs need a damn good cleaning :laugh:

not me!!!! last night the bike got a quick loom tidy (just re-taped the central snake)

[jasonu]

because it clearly has nothing to do with the engine itself.. only the gearbox... whether the engine is running or not makes no difference to what parts move when the bike is rolling

So if the engine is not running ie switched off how does the gearbox make any noise at all?

[bogan]

So if the engine is not running ie switched off how does the gearbox make any noise at all?

It's a 4cyl 250 in wellington, it's not hard to switch off engine in a high gear and roll down a hill...

Not really sure why this guy is getting so much flak on this thread, he seems to have at least a rudimentary mechanical understanding and a decent ability to describe the problem and understand our questions/advice on it; seems like a thing that should be encouraged tbh.

[buggerit]

Do the number of clicks per min at a fixed speed of say 70kmh stay the same ,or would it change with gear selection,motor rpm?

[the bear zxr]

Do the number of clicks per min at a fixed speed of say 70kmh stay the same ,or would it change with gear selection,motor rpm?

as described; the ratio of clicks varies with road speed and gear selection: if i ROLL faster, it clicks faster

If i REV harder (in same gear)-road speed increases and it clicks faster

If i down shift then it clicks faster.



and please, ive been reasonably patient (as i guess many think i should be given i'm new to the forum, and therefor cannot possibly have ANY experience with engines (thats sarcasm incase you dont quite have all cylanders running today))- but yes. IT DOES STILL CLICK IF ENGINE IS NOT RUNNING< STOP ASKING STUPID QUESTIONS IVE ANSWERED THREE TIMES ALREADY--READ THE POSTS< IM HERE FOR DRIVETRAIN ADVICE< NOT TO BABY YOU ON HOW TO READ...

sorry to all those who have been most helpful; but some of your comrades are becoming a burden

[Katman]

and please, ive been reasonably patient (as i guess many think i should be given i'm new to the forum, and therefor cannot possibly have ANY experience with engines (thats sarcasm incase you dont quite have all cylanders running today))- but yes. IT DOES STILL CLICK IF ENGINE IS NOT RUNNING< STOP ASKING STUPID QUESTIONS IVE ANSWERED THREE TIMES ALREADY--READ THE POSTS< IM HERE FOR DRIVETRAIN ADVICE< NOT TO BABY YOU ON HOW TO READ...

sorry to all those who have been most helpful; but some of your comrades are becoming a burden

You sound like a fuckwit.

[imdying]

So does it click if the engine is running?

[buggerit]

You sound like a fuckwit.

+1 probably wheelbearings:nya:

[jasonu]

It's a 4cyl 250 in wellington, it's not hard to switch off engine in a high gear and roll down a hill...

Not really sure why this guy is getting so much flak on this thread, he seems to have at least a rudimentary mechanical understanding and a decent ability to describe the problem and understand our questions/advice on it; seems like a thing that should be encouraged tbh.

Fair enough then. I guess I won't ask about the kerfuffler valve and what colour powerband it has...
Seriously though, if the chain and sprockets are OK it sounds like maybe a missing tooth on either the primary gear or the clutch hub gear. About a million years ago I had an XR500 that had similar symptoms and it turned out to be the primary gear missing a tooth. If it is that then you are lucky, no need to split the cases.

[gammaguy]

Remove engine

Split cases

Inspect/repair/adjust gearbox/selector system as required

Reassemble

Refit

Ride:yes:

[Katman]

Remove engine

Split cases

Inspect/repair/adjust gearbox/selector system as required

Reassemble

Refit

Ride:yes:

That's not very helpful.

[Laava]

So does it click if the engine is running?

It's very simple! You move your clothes to the lower peg only AFTER you've written your letter home unless you are getting your hair cut in which case you get your younger brother to move your clothes to a lower peg for you!

[mossy1200]

That's not very helpful.

You going soft?

If the clicks increase with a downchange lifting rpm but not speed but doesn't do it in neutral then fault after the clutch. If it does it in neutral while rolling down hill its likely final drive bearing. If it stops with clutch pulled and rolling in gear its likely in the clutch.

I still think final drive bearing when under load due to the started after chain replaced unless its the wrong size chain or sprocket teeth bent over and catching.

Its likely had a stretched chain running with tight spots on that bearing for a long time.

Order a clutch gasket. Remove cover. Inspect
Drain oil and check for metal. Remove oil filter and check it also for larger bits.
How about remove chain and check shaft for movement.
If bearing collapsed enough to be noisy seeing as its sitting in oil then the shaft will shack or the oil seal will be weaping when the bike hot.
Take front sprocket off. Warm up bike and put it in gear.

[Drew]

You sound like a fuckwit.So do you half the time y'old cunt, but concessions are made. Give a little aye?

Anyhoo. I'm quite interested to find out what the issue with the bike is. If I thought it wouldn't lunch itself on the way up the gorge, I'm almost tempted to get this cat round to mine to investigate... Not that I need anything else to work on.

[Katman]

So do you half the time y'old cunt, but concessions are made. Give a little aye?


Fuck off - I've never been afflicted by caps lock disease.

[Drew]

Fuck off - I've never been afflicted by caps lock disease.He was pissed off, I'd be shouting at ya too if I didn't think you're a funny prick.

[Katman]

He was pissed off, I'd be shouting at ya too if I didn't think you're a funny prick.

He sounds like he'll provide us with hours of entertainment in the future anyway.

[unstuck]

Some bugger has put one of them things off a kids bike on the swingarm, so when the wheel goes round it goes click click click.:yes:

[the bear zxr]

oh entertainment I will give! i recently bought a reel mower with a turbo... (hey, at 80bux i couldnt pass it up!) and now that I have a complete spare engine... well, that wee turbo might make a move... *waits for the torrent of abuse at the mere mention of a 250 turbo* haha fun project; regardless of eventual poor gains

[ducatilover]

It's not terribly hard to split the cases on a ZXR. And if you're blueprinting an engine, you'll be well up to a simple mechanical job like that.

What flavour turbo is it you're chucking at your spare motor?
Run a slotted pickup on the ignition for some retard (hehe retards) and a thicker base gasket and it'll be fine. I wouldn't run anything much bigger than a flowed IHI RHB31 on a 250/4 though and a 31 won't come on boost 'till around 12krpm anyway.:facepalm:
Setting the carbs up is a little tricky, but once you have the dimensions and position of your bowl vent sorted and a decent sealed airbox it's a walk in the park. You'd not be wanting to push any more than 4-5psi fuel pressure in to the little CVKs too, they only run 8mm diameter float needles and leak, then the bowls will leak.

Post pics and do mad skids when you build it. :Punk: Small motors with turbos are fun, sound impressive, feel impressive but still slow as fuck and you won't lose your licence too fast on one

[unstuck]

Small motors with turbos are fun, sound impressive, feel impressive but still slow as fuck and you won't lose your licence too fast on one

Bullshit.......I had a Johnsereds turbo chainsaw and it was shit. The only thing it did quicker was foul up the air cleaner.:lol:

You found that stick in your spokes yet bear?

[Drew]

It's not terribly hard to split the cases on a ZXR. And if you're blueprinting an engine, you'll be well up to a simple mechanical job like that.

What flavour turbo is it you're chucking at your spare motor?
Run a slotted pickup on the ignition for some retard (hehe retards) and a thicker base gasket and it'll be fine. I wouldn't run anything much bigger than a flowed IHI RHB31 on a 250/4 though and a 31 won't come on boost 'till around 12krpm anyway.:facepalm:
Setting the carbs up is a little tricky, but once you have the dimensions and position of your bowl vent sorted and a decent sealed airbox it's a walk in the park. You'd not be wanting to push any more than 4-5psi fuel pressure in to the little CVKs too, they only run 8mm diameter float needles and leak, then the bowls will leak.

Post pics and do mad skids when you build it. :Punk: Small motors with turbos are fun, sound impressive, feel impressive but still slow as fuck and you won't lose your licence too fast on oneYou are making it all too hard.

Put a box around the carbs, so the pressure behind the slides is matched around the carbs, and the CV carbs will work exactly like they do now. The box needs to be of similar volume to the standard air box to mimic the still air they draw from standard.

Fuel gets pumped into a T with a bit of volume to it that sits inside the box and above the carbs. Off the bottom of the T goes to the carbs, off the other side back into the tank. Fuel sussed.

Bigger jets, and you are away laughing. About the biggest issue I would foresee is reliable oil feed to the turbo, without compromising the rest of the motor's supply.

Oil return from the turbo to the sump, should have a reservoir to let the boiled oil condense and not cause grief.

[jasonu]

You sound like a fuckwit.

and you ARE a fuckwit.

[bogan]

Fuel gets pumped into a T with a bit of volume to it that sits inside the box and above the carbs. Off the bottom of the T goes to the carbs, off the other side back into the tank. Fuel sussed.


If one end is open back to the tank, isn't it just going to boost all the fuel out into the lower pressure tank anyway, regardless of whether a pump is circulating it around or not...

Fluid dynamics can be hard, kind of like a sci fi book I'm reading in which orbital houses suck air up out of the atmosphere through really really long straws, not a major plot point but it gets on my nerves nonetheless.

[gammaguy]

That's not very helpful.

The truth is often not helpful

If I was still running my workshop,that is what I would be doing

[ducatilover]

You are making it all too hard.

Put a box around the carbs, so the pressure behind the slides is matched around the carbs, and the CV carbs will work exactly like they do now. The box needs to be of similar volume to the standard air box to mimic the still air they draw from standard.

Fuel gets pumped into a T with a bit of volume to it that sits inside the box and above the carbs. Off the bottom of the T goes to the carbs, off the other side back into the tank. Fuel sussed.

Bigger jets, and you are away laughing. About the biggest issue I would foresee is reliable oil feed to the turbo, without compromising the rest of the motor's supply.

Oil return from the turbo to the sump, should have a reservoir to let the boiled oil condense and not cause grief.

Or you just make a stainless airbox with the bowl vents pointing in to the airflow (the ZXR CVK have the external bowl vent if I remember correctly, runs over the top of teh fact. air box, comes out between carbs 1/2 and 3/4), once you work out the right sizes you can get away with stock jetting. I have a spreadsheet on one of my PCs for working out the correct sizes in relation to your intake piping :yes:
Then a fuel pump with a 1:1 rising rate regulator and you're good to go.
Without the 1:1 FPR it'll never perform at its best and the same goes for the air pressure in the bowls.

Plus all the other annoying shit.
BOV, because compressor surge isn't as cool as it sounds.
An ext waste gate, bitches love them.
No need for an I/Cooler in the real world and under 7 psi
Oil lines are easy enough, you'll probably be needing a restrictor on the feed to the turbo and you're away laughing, with 60 potential whopping laggy as fuck and awesome horsepowaaaah.


Not that I'd know anything, I'm just a GN owner. :sweatdrop

[the bear zxr]

the bowl vents are a piece of piss, just bore the existing velocity gate in the slide (small hole that goes through on the throat side of the slide) im running no aibox atm, only getting a little resonance flutter at the moment in terms of performance, the real deal will be an f-glass full shaped plenum of 1->4 design (think headers) with a second pressure nipple off compressor (like the existing boost controller nipple) to opperate the cv lines... im doing a 0.5mm dia. hone on all cylanders, then using forged cbr mc19 pistons, (theyr a tiny bit fatter and a tiny bit shorter so ill lower the compression (nessecary for higher boosts) and i'd need ahone anyway, so may as well go the cbr pistons coz its easy to get forged and what have you, whersas my poor zxr tends to be a bit more on the exotic side of the parts list... ;L

this is all in the long run project btw, probably mid-2014 when its done, as i need a worksop that ISNT back in nelson!!!! (and a pay rise ;) )

[ducatilover]

That won't put boost pressure to the bowls.

Where are you getting the forged pistons from? I've seen pistons for MC22s recently but haven't found a set of Jap made ones for an MC19 for yonks

Having a work shop is nice :yes:
This all makes me want to start another turbo project. I used to have a t25 floating around but I think I sold it :facepalm: my little Kawasaki is gagging for one.

[the bear zxr]

That won't put boost pressure to the bowls.

Where are you getting the forged pistons from? I've seen pistons for MC22s recently but haven't found a set of Jap made ones for an MC19 for yonks

Having a work shop is nice :yes:
This all makes me want to start another turbo project. I used to have a t25 floating around but I think I sold it :facepalm: my little Kawasaki is gagging for one.

I still don't see why people bag the whole "250 turbo" idea, If youv ever felt the exhaust gasses form a zxr or some similar high revving bike, they have a pretty good amount of smack. not to mention that mathamatically; they put out the same sort of gas volume as a 1ltr odd car, but at velocities much higher, in reality, the rpm ratio (i.e. a zxr redline is 19.5krpm, and a vw golf say; is around 6.5ish....(?) ) then you have a relitively high similarity, PLUS that higher velocity... all in all, there is no reason for it to be cost ineffective; the bikes are cheap and the turbos are cheaper. ofcourse one can argue that the cost of legalising such a mod is prohibitive... but realistically: if your going to do it, its either for the track and a laugh; or your the kind of person that doesnt give a shit anyways......

[ducatilover]

I still don't see why people bag the whole "250 turbo" idea, If youv ever felt the exhaust gasses form a zxr or some similar high revving bike, they have a pretty good amount of smack. I've done one myself and set up a few small turbo motors, I like 'em
not to mention that mathamatically; they put out the same sort of gas volume as a 1ltr odd car, but at velocities much higher, in reality, the rpm ratio (i.e. a zxr redline is 19.5krpm, and a vw golf say; is around 6.5ish....(?) ) then you have a relitively high similarity, PLUS that higher velocity... all in all, there is no reason for it to be cost ineffective; the bikes are cheap and the turbos are cheaper. ofcourse one can argue that the cost of legalising such a mod is prohibitive... but realistically: if your going to do it, its either for the track and a laugh;. They don't flow as much as you'd like to think, but they do flow more than most give them credit for. Legal? Meh :D that's for sheeple

or your the kind of person that doesnt give a shit anyways......
Essentially the reason I do anything :bleh:
I am very interested in the forged pistons though, who supplies MC19 ones these days?
I believe MC22 ran a smaller gudgeon pin and a higher comp height and different crown on the piston? Or I may have the gudgeon backwards? (I had a GF like that once...)

But as a said before, I don't know anything, I just own a GN and post on KB (automatically makes you an idiot)

[the bear zxr]

and ebay has had a few mc19 sets pop up (japanese not chinese crap) im sure also that my local (boyle kawasaki) could find me forgies if anybody could!!!!

[unstuck]

But as a said before, I don't know anything, I just own a GN and post on KB (automatically makes you an idiot)

:lol: Dont beat yourself up, you cant help the fact that you have poor taste in bikes.:bleh:

I want to hear this thing running.:devil2:

[ducatilover]

:lol: Dont beat yourself up, you cant help the fact that you have poor taste in bikes.:bleh:



Said the punk rocker from Gore with a Honda :bleh:

[unstuck]

Said the punk rocker from Gore with a Honda :bleh:

And a suzuki and a yamaha.:bleh::bleh: Actually thats 3 hondas 2 suzukis and 2 yammys, so.....:bleh::bleh::bleh::bleh:

[ducatilover]

I stand erec...corrected

[unstuck]

I stand erec...corrected

Careful now, I ride a honda remember.:buggerd:

[ducatilover]

Careful now, I ride a honda remember.:buggerd:

I've had three, do your worst big boy


Okay, this thread jack is becoming gayer and gayer.
More turbo talk... and I want to find some forged pistons.

[Drew]

Chuck the turbo on the clicky motor. When it goes bang, it should be spectacular!

[T.W.R]

lol stop mucking around and throw a screw blower on the sod ;) will work better than a turbo or roots type blower any day of the week :cool:

[the bear zxr]

lol stop mucking around and throw a screw blower on the sod ;) will work better than a turbo or roots type blower any day of the week :cool:

would love to.... but the price and sourcing of such a thing for a bike in li'l old NZ would be faaaaar too out of reach.. the only reason I'm concidering a turbo, is because I have one... and I'm a bit of a dab hand with f-glass (to a poin, I havnt tried farings yet!!! :P ) so I can make a lightweight plenum and induction tube :)

[Drew]

Here's a thought.

The bike wont last long with a turbo on it anyway. So put a draw through carb on there and get it done over a weekend.

[ducatilover]

Here's a thought.

The bike wont last long with a turbo on it anyway. So put a draw through carb on there and get it done over a weekend.

I might have a couple of SU carbs lying around :cool:
Keen to see how far a leg can go out of bed in a ZXR?

[imdying]

Here's a thought.

The bike wont last long with a turbo on it anyway. So put a draw through carb on there and get it done over a weekend.

Best advice so far.

[unstuck]

With video of said leg heading to the heavens of course.:headbang::headbang:

[the bear zxr]

well, because this seems to have migrated to being a turbo thread... and because i just love the idea: has anybody had any experience with a draw through carb setup on a turbo....? aside from the inherent and massive lag; I guess they would be easier to tune for the rev range? however then they must also have terrible idle... would it be possible to use a carb with an accelerator pump; then just re-route the flow from this function, to a jet right close up to the manifold.....?

[T.W.R]

would love to.... but the price and sourcing of such a thing for a bike in li'l old NZ would be faaaaar too out of reach.. the only reason I'm concidering a turbo, is because I have one... and I'm a bit of a dab hand with f-glass (to a poin, I havnt tried farings yet!!! :P ) so I can make a lightweight plenum and induction tube :)

lol but turbos just pump mixture into the engine and don't work very efficiently on street engines, only as it reaches optimum speed & as with roots type blower they pump heat in as well. If your going to fiddle with the motor you want something that'll work at all speeds as well as or if not better than a turbo at optimum speed.
A Sprintex S82 is especially designed for bikes :yes: or you get a S102 (same as fitted to some range rovers) run 7psi pressure and come away with a engine running 40% more power :shifty:

[kiwi cowboy]

Careful now, I ride a honda remember.:buggerd:

Yer ya see that's what confuses us:yes: ya ride a Honda but don't like hugs:nya::nya:well ya do own suzi's and yamm'es so no wonder ya say ya got issues.

Did this op ever find out what the problem was?.

[unstuck]

Yer ya see that's what confuses us:yes: ya ride a Honda but don't like hugs:nya::nya:well ya do own suzi's and yamm'es so no wonder ya say ya got issues.

Did this op ever find out what the problem was?.

No problem hugging males, just sheep farmers.;)

[Drew]

I think the biggest issue with drawing the mixture through the turbo, is it eats turbo wheels. Other than that they work just fine. Better atomizing of the mixture even.

[Fast Eddie]

suck through works fine..

don't worry about the fuel eating the turbo - your big end will run much sooner ;) been there done that a few times now..

still a laugh to go waaaaAAAAAAA pish on a bike.

best when the turbo is mounted by your knee.

[ducatilover]

I think the biggest issue with drawing the mixture through the turbo, is it eats turbo wheels. Other than that they work just fine. Better atomizing of the mixture even. Yup, what this wellington twit says is correct.
Blow through is more bad-ass anyway.


lol but turbos just pump mixture into the engine and don't work very efficiently on street engines, only as it reaches optimum speed & as with roots type blower they pump heat in as well. If your going to fiddle with the motor you want something that'll work at all speeds as well as or if not better than a turbo at optimum speed.
A Sprintex S82 is especially designed for bikes :yes: or you get a S102 (same as fitted to some range rovers) run 7psi pressure and come away with a engine running 40% more power :shifty: Finding an S82 might be a little pricey in NZ though? One of 'em would get the GN making okay power




Did this op ever find out what the problem was?. Lack of boost.

[T.W.R]

Finding an S82 might be a little pricey in NZ though? One of 'em would get the GN making okay power



lol well silly ideas with a tired old motor call for silly options :yes:

Ha a GN would be a far safer and simpler option to throw a turbo on than a highly strung 250/4 with 5c piece valves with stems like matches :bleh:

[the bear zxr]

well guys, all biking exploits on hold :(

i was unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious accident the friday gone,on a short trip to my hometown nelson.. a van pulled a U-turn infront of me on a passing lane. i hit the drivers side and tore my bike in half, and wrote the van off.

the driver of the van sadly passed away at the scene.

somehow i managed to escape with my life: i crushed two vertabrae, cracked several ribs, punctured a lung, cracked my pelvis, and destroyed my right hand....

i have been incredibly lucky, and instead of being in a body bag as i should have been; i was discharged yesterday and am home with family for my 6-12 months recovery.

despite this being a freak accident;and an incredible feat for a motorcyclist to survive a car vs motorbike... i want to encourage the use of full saftey gear, and i will be spending my recovery promoting the purchase of full gear by learners before they buy a bike, as im sure many of you started in the jeans jacket stage until you bought gear.

ride safe guys, and be careful!!!

[Drew]

Umm...FUCK!

[haydes55]

Shit mate that's no good! Glad you're on the road to recovery and hope it's a full recovery.


It must be said I'm glad the causer of the accident died rather than the victim.

Good luck promoting the gear. I had all my gear before I even had the money for a bike (except I forgot gloves, the guy I got my 1st bike off gave me a free pair anyway).

[Katman]

It must be said I'm glad the causer of the accident died rather than the victim.


That's a big call considering you've only heard one side of a story.

[unstuck]

well guys, all biking exploits on hold :(

i was unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious accident the friday gone,on a short trip to my hometown nelson.. a van pulled a U-turn infront of me on a passing lane. i hit the drivers side and tore my bike in half, and wrote the van off.

the driver of the van sadly passed away at the scene.

somehow i managed to escape with my life: i crushed two vertabrae, cracked several ribs, punctured a lung, cracked my pelvis, and destroyed my right hand....

i have been incredibly lucky, and instead of being in a body bag as i should have been; i was discharged yesterday and am home with family for my 6-12 months recovery.

despite this being a freak accident;and an incredible feat for a motorcyclist to survive a car vs motorbike... i want to encourage the use of full saftey gear, and i will be spending my recovery promoting the purchase of full gear by learners before they buy a bike, as im sure many of you started in the jeans jacket stage until you bought gear.



ride safe guys, and be careful!!!



Ratshit, sorry to hear that dude. Pretty rough all round I would imagine. Hope your recovery goes well. All the best.:love::love:

[Drew]

I'm surprised didn't hear about the crash in the news. I don't actively watch or listen to the news, but I do hear it on the way to work on the radio.

[Katman]

I'm surprised didn't hear about the crash in the news. I don't actively watch or listen to the news, but I do hear it on the way to work on the radio.

Google's got nothing either.