Did I break it already?

[Grashopper]

I got a bit lost on Saturday and the only place that allowed me to stop ‘safely’ to look at my map was on quite a bit of a downhill slope. No problem, I thought, I just keep my foot on the brake and it will be fine… (pretty much everybody here must be doing a gigantic face palm now…I don’t know what I was thinking either…) :facepalm:

I was just distracted for a short moment. The bike rolled forward, then sidewards and I wasn’t able to hold it up.
So I dropped my ‘new’ Honda Spada. :brick: Couldn’t lift it up by myself, but eventually some nice people stopped and helped. Bike looked fine, just the handle bar was a bit scratched and I noticed later, that the gear lever was bent a bit.

I left it for a few minutes, checked the map and figured out a route. Then I tried starting the bike and it took some tries until it started and a bit of revving until it ran normally. Ok, I thought, it must have been from lying on its side for a few minutes until someone stopped. The bike ran fine afterwards and without problems yesterday. But on today's freezing morning, whilst it started without problems, I noticed that every time I slowed down to 80 and less while being in 5th or 6th gear, the bike would suddenly lose power. Until I was revving it a lot more, then I would suddenly jump forward and run a stable as usual.

Now, I’ve just been riding this bike for 500 km, but that did not seem normal. Just the day before it went cruising into townships down to 60 in 6th gear without any issues. That was also after the drop. No clue, what was going on. It felt a bit like an automatic car that shifts up and loses power and then suddenly downshifts to accelerate. I know the bike won’t have much power in a high gear at lower revs (around 6-7000…), but it should not be suddenly surging forward. I hope I didn’t break anything in my stupidity… :eek5:

[unstuck]

Maybe just a bit of crap inside the tank that has covered the outlet filter while laying on its side.

[haydes55]

I'd just check over everything. Even in a slight drop stuff can wiggle free.

Check the carbs are both on and sealed. A knock could have dislodged them allowing air to leak in.

Also on an older bike it might pay to check the electrical earths. If you want to be certain they are fine unbolt them, give the frame and washer a light sand and bolt it up tight again. Then insulation tape it up.

Check the spark plug leads are both firmly in place. Pull them off and check the plugs if you have the socket handy.

The exhausts could have wriggled a bit loose as well (not likely though). Just grab it (when its cold) and see if you can wiggle it at the head. Or start it up and see if any smoke comes out where it shouldn't.

Those are some simple checks. But the junk in the gas option could be the cause. If all else fails the carbs are pretty sensitive, so give them a clean and set them up right if it's still playing up.

[speeding_ant]

I had a very similar feeling incident happen on my bike a few weeks ago. The front brake would start grabbing and the bike would seem like it's losing power (no change in engine noise, eg all cylinders working), then it would instantly free up and be fine again. I didn't click to this being a brake issue at first. I thought it was an engine problem, having a similar feeling experience on 2 strokes.

It worsened until the front brake almost locked up. Ended up being some gunk in the master cylinder. Bleed and a rebuild kit and it's fine.

Next time it does this, check the front brake to see if the disk is overly hot. Not saying that's the issue, but a drop can dislodge many instances of crap that you never knew about.

[onearmedbandit]

The ol' Spada fuel starvation problem. Get your fuel petcock assembly checked. Fixed mine and numerous other Spada's with similar symptoms.

[Grashopper]

The ol' Spada fuel starvation problem. Get your fuel petcock assembly checked. Fixed mine and numerous other Spada's with similar symptoms.

Hm, I remember reading about something like that in some older threads when I first looked the bike up. Will do some browsing again. Good thing I had already planned to pay a visit to my favorite mechanic, too.

[Grashopper]

Ah, here we go. It does sound quite similar: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/128555-Honda-Vt250-Spada-problem

[imdying]

Yup I think OAB has it pinned... it's easy to check and costs nothing to fix. Give it a crack...

[Maha]

Tip: When stopping in a situation like you did, put the bike in gear and turn it off.

[Grashopper]

Tip: When stopping in a situation like you did, put the bike in gear and turn it off.

Lol, yeah, I know...but I just wanted to stop really quick to have a look....:facepalm:

Edit: Possibly didn't think it would be a problem, because I always do this at work when I stop half on the hill with my foot on the brake to take gloves off, open electric gate with fob thingy, put gloves, on ride off. Works pretty well in that situation. But then I'm usually not distracted at that time.

[Grashopper]

Ok, so, there was a lot of sediment in the fuel tank and the carb, so both got cleaned out last week.

Unfortunately that changed nothing. All is well as long as the revs are kept above 7500 rpm. So not too bad on the highway. But as soon as they drop under that the bike starts surging, and might stall even with clutch pulled in if it is not revved higher. This issue makes the bike pretty annoying to ride in the twisties. It is difficult to always stay above 7500 and that surging doesn't help if you want to be smooth around the corners.

So maybe it is the fuel tab, but shouldn't a blocked fuel tab make things worse at higher revs, not better?

[tigertim20]

when you cleaned the carb did you take all the jets etc out and clean them as well?

cleaned your air filter?

[onearmedbandit]

Ok, so, there was a lot of sediment in the fuel tank and the carb, so both got cleaned out last week.

Unfortunately that changed nothing. All is well as long as the revs are kept above 7500 rpm. So not too bad on the highway. But as soon as they drop under that the bike starts surging, and might stall even with clutch pulled in if it is not revved higher. This issue makes the bike pretty annoying to ride in the twisties. It is difficult to always stay above 7500 and that surging doesn't help if you want to be smooth around the corners.

So maybe it is the fuel tab, but shouldn't a blocked fuel tab make things worse at higher revs, not better?

Yup mine pulled clean above those revs as well, but on occasion when it dropped below that and faltered she would struggle to pull above that. If at all. Did you have the petcock checked? From memory there is a filter in there too.

[nzspokes]

Ok, so, there was a lot of sediment in the fuel tank and the carb, so both got cleaned out last week.

Unfortunately that changed nothing. All is well as long as the revs are kept above 7500 rpm. So not too bad on the highway. But as soon as they drop under that the bike starts surging, and might stall even with clutch pulled in if it is not revved higher. This issue makes the bike pretty annoying to ride in the twisties. It is difficult to always stay above 7500 and that surging doesn't help if you want to be smooth around the corners.

So maybe it is the fuel tab, but shouldn't a blocked fuel tab make things worse at higher revs, not better?

Did your favorite mechanic not bother to test ride it before you paid for the job?

I would be taking it back and telling them to do it right.

[Grashopper]

when you cleaned the carb did you take all the jets etc out and clean them as well?

cleaned your air filter?

lol, no way I'm going to touch my new bike. I don't know enough and would probably break something. I leave that to someone who knows what they are doing. But yeah, it got a new air filter last week.


Yup mine pulled clean above those revs as well, but on occasion when it dropped below that and faltered she would struggle to pull above that. If at all. Did you have the petcock checked? From memory there is a filter in there too.

Yeah, as soon as it drops underneath it, the bike has problems pulling again. Needs some serious revving then. Today it stalled in the middle of a roundabout and took a couple of tries to start it, too. :crazy: The petcock is on the list for this week, I assume. But if it is stuffed, why would revving the engine it make the bike run better?
Aside of that, are there any other parts that could have been affected by all that crap in the tank?

[DrunkenMistake]

Looks like you have some good advice above,

For future http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfsUZDA8CoI

have a look at that might help next time if you drop your bike again,
its obviously not always that clear cut and easy but gives you an idea,
There is another video floating about of a woman showing how to lift a gold wing or a harley.

[Grashopper]

Did your favorite mechanic not bother to test ride it before you paid for the job?

I would be taking it back and telling them to do it right.

Lol, the problem is you don't always notice it. You can take it on the highway, cruise around at 100 and all is good. Only when things get more interesting the problem starts. Was going to Hamilton on Friday and was sure all was good after even 150 km. But that was on the main highway. Went back on the backroads with far less constant speed, over 7500 rpm. It was then when I noticed that it is still having the same problem. Did some more riding today and got a much better idea of when the problem starts appearing.

[Grashopper]

So, fuel tank, carbs, fueltab, fuel lines and whatever were cleaned out again at the beginning of the week. Everything was going fine all week, but I was only commuting 15 min each way anyway. Today I finally managed to take the bike out for a bit longer spin.

Went south on the eastern side of the lake through the twisties and back. Everything was fine for the first 50 km. Then on the way back just before the airport roundabout the bike starts to surge again. Made it through the roundabout then stop at the side of the road to let the cars pass, so I can do a bit of testing. While I'm waiting for the cars the bike is in idle and then dies. I switch it on again, it idles for a second then dies again. Just in case I switch to reserve, even though I should have at least another 50 km... Bike starts and idles and idles...no dieing this time. I take off, everything is fine. Head to a petrol station in town, tank is full after 6.3 liters... The Spada has a 11L fuel tank and reserve is 1.9 L. Take the bike for short ride along the highway. Still all good.

I really need to do a bit more testing now to find out more.

[Ocean1]

So, fuel tank, carbs, fueltab, fuel lines and whatever were cleaned out again at the beginning of the week. Everything was going fine all week, but I was only commuting 15 min each way anyway. Today I finally managed to take the bike out for a bit longer spin.

Went south on the eastern side of the lake through the twisties and back. Everything was fine for the first 50 km. Then on the way back just before the airport roundabout the bike starts to surge again. Made it through the roundabout then stop at the side of the road to let the cars pass, so I can do a bit of testing. While I'm waiting for the cars the bike is in idle and then dies. I switch it on again, it idles for a second then dies again. Just in case I switch to reserve, even though I should have at least another 50 km... Bike starts and idles and idles...no dieing this time. I take off, everything is fine. Head to a petrol station in town, tank is full after 6.3 liters... The Spada has a 11L fuel tank and reserve is 1.9 L. Take the bike for short ride along the highway. Still all good.

I really need to do a bit more testing now to find out more.

Sounds like the main tank tube on the petcock is blocked. Wee bits of crap can float around even after you've had a good clean up. Easy enough to check and easy to clear.

[quickbuck]

Hmmmm,
At this point I have to ask what fuel are you using?

Tip:
Use the highest octane available.
Do not let it sit around for too many weeks though.

DO NOT use Mobil 8000 or Gull (ethanol blends).

[Grashopper]

Hmmmm,
At this point I have to ask what fuel are you using?

Tip:
Use the highest octane available.
Do not let it sit around for too many weeks though.

DO NOT use Mobil 8000 or Gull (ethanol blends).

Used to use 91, but I've been using 98 since the beginning of last week. Done 1300 km in those three weeks I've had the bike, so don't think stale fuel is a problem. :)

I've heard that Gull fuel is not to be recommended, but didn't know about Mobil. Although I never get fuel there anyway. Good to know though.

[Grashopper]

Sounds like the main tank tube on the petcock is blocked. Wee bits of crap can float around even after you've had a good clean up. Easy enough to check and easy to clear.

Hm, not sure if that bit has been cleaned yet. Will consult with the bike doc about that.

[quickbuck]

Used to use 91, but I've been using 98 since the beginning of last week. Done 1300 km in those three weeks I've had the bike, so don't think stale fuel is a problem. :)

I've heard that Gull fuel is not to be recommended, but didn't know about Mobil. Although I never get fuel there anyway. Good to know though.

Good answer....
Doesn't support my theory though....

The "Main tank" does seen a little small though. Just 6l....

Sounds like there is something a miss with the fuel stack pipe.
Without looking though, I have no idea what.

[Grashopper]

Did some more testing this evening and went up and down the ETA a few times. Left the setting on reverse for a while and everything was ok. Did 30 km of that. Then switched back to the normal setting. The bike starts surging pretty much immediately. I turn it back to reserve, ,bike is back to running smoothly. However when I arrive at the roundabout, the bike stalls and it takes me a few tries to switch it on again. I turn around again and the bike is running again without problems.

Will do some more testing to see what will happen if the fuel level gets lower. Wonder if that will make it act up even in reserve setting , too.

I also wonder why, in normal setting, it doesn't happen on short rides, only when I slow down after 10th of kms at higher speed.

[nzspokes]

Blocked tank vent?

[sinfull]

The ol' Spada fuel starvation problem. Get your fuel petcock assembly checked. Fixed mine and numerous other Spada's with similar symptoms.
29th of july this post was made, you have found sediment in the tank but you haven't checked the petcock or the filters in the tank ? I'd be looking at that first up !



Blocked tank vent? Right there is another possibility but have to run with the filters in the tank after a fall and finding sediment !

[Grashopper]

29th of july this post was made, you have found sediment in the tank but you haven't checked the petcock or the filters in the tank ? I'd be looking at that first up !


As far as I know that has been cleaned and checked. If it is the petcock and the filters anyway, why would it only act up going back to lower revs after ca 30 min on higher revs? Shouldn't it be worse on higher revs? :confused: Wish I knew more about how the fuel system works.

Re the blocked tank vent, apparently the bike didn't make any whooshing sound, when the tank was opened when it was acting up. But because the bike is not acting up constantly I still wouldn't exclude that.

[ducatilover]

After reading this, it can still be the petcock. they will close up at times, not completely but enough to keep the carbs fed properly. (known issue, same with VFRs)
It would pay to dismantle and inspect the tap, clean the tank vent too.
Replace the tap vacuum line. You can modify the tap to eliminate the vacuum diaphragm.

[russiansteel]

....You can modify the tap to eliminate the vacuum diaphragm.
pls pardon the thread resurrection - are you able to elaborate on how to pls?
tia
sam