Torque vs horsepower. Cyclist vs BMW s1000rr

[Maki]

For the people who wonder about torque vs horsepower and which will get you from A to B faster.

The relationship between torque and horsepower is simple. Torque x rpm/5252 = horsepower

So, how much power does a BMW s1000rr make? About 193 horsepower. How much power does a top professional cyclist produce during a sprint? About 2 horsepower.

What about torque? A BMW s1000rr makes a peak torque of 83 Ft Lbs. A cyclist can produce about 88 Ft Lbs, more than a BMW s1000rr! Don't believe it? That 88 Ft Lbs is actually a conservative figure. It assumes that the cyclist is producing 2 horsepower at 120 rpm. The very fastest cyclists can produce a bit more power than that at slightly lower rpm. How is the torque calculated?

Torque = horsepower x 5252/rpm = 2 x 5252/120 = 88 Ft LBs.

More reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/08/news/colorado-power-michael-morkov%E2%80%99s-46-mph-podium-sprint_190010

[EJK]

A cyclist has leg power equavalent of two horses? What is he, a centaur?

<img width="300" src="http://centaurican.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/centaur_by_therandomdrawer-d4lc2x2.png" />

[Maki]

No, two centaurs.

[imdying]

Yep, that is definitely a part of why push bikes suck :yes:

[F5 Dave]

120rpm, pah. Put a bike on a dyno & you ain't getting 2hp.


Any thinking man uses mechanical advantage. Torque at the rear wheel counts, no where else. That is why an R6 is more torquey than a Hardley.

[Maki]

120rpm, pah. Put a bike on a dyno & you ain't getting 2hp.


Any thinking man uses mechanical advantage. Torque at the rear wheel counts, no where else. That is why an R6 is more torquey than a Hardley.

+1, you got my point.

However, with the right rider you WILL get more than 2hp if you put a bike on a dyno.

"Amateur bicycle racers can typically produce 3 watts/kg for more than an hour (e.g., around 210 watts for a 70 kg rider), with top amateurs producing 5 W/kg and elite athletes achieving 6 W/kg for similar lengths of time[citation needed]. Elite track sprinters are able to attain an instantaneous maximum output of around 2,000 watts, or in excess of 25 W/kg[citation needed]; elite road cyclists may produce 1,600 to 1,700 watts as an instantaneous maximum in their burst to the finish line at the end of a five-hour long road race[citation needed]. Even at moderate speeds, most power is spent in overcoming the aerodynamic drag force, which increases with the square of speed.[5] Thus, the power required to overcome drag increases with the cube of the speed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

2hp is only 1491 watts.

[bogan]

+1, you got my point.

However, with the right rider you WILL get more than 2hp if you put a bike on a dyno.

"Amateur bicycle racers can typically produce 3 watts/kg for more than an hour (e.g., around 210 watts for a 70 kg rider), with top amateurs producing 5 W/kg and elite athletes achieving 6 W/kg for similar lengths of time[citation needed]. Elite track sprinters are able to attain an instantaneous maximum output of around 2,000 watts, or in excess of 25 W/kg[citation needed]; elite road cyclists may produce 1,600 to 1,700 watts as an instantaneous maximum in their burst to the finish line at the end of a five-hour long road race[citation needed]. Even at moderate speeds, most power is spent in overcoming the aerodynamic drag force, which increases with the square of speed.[5] Thus, the power required to overcome drag increases with the cube of the speed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

2hp is only 1491 watts.

You see where it says [citation needed]?

[Maki]

You see where it says [citation needed]?

The power of top cyclists is widely known, frequently measured and not subject to controversy.

"Andre has won back to back stages in the years Tour de France with wins coming in Stages 4 & 5. Greipel won stage 4 with a max watt output of 1566 watts in the sprint but in stage 5 he had to put out a little more to secure the victory, 1837 watts in total."

http://sportsexerciseengineering.com/2012/07/07/tour-de-france-stage-5-andre-greipels-power-file/

[iYRe]

+1, you got my point.

However, with the right rider you WILL get more than 2hp if you put a bike on a dyno.

"Amateur bicycle racers can typically produce 3 watts/kg for more than an hour (e.g., around 210 watts for a 70 kg rider), with top amateurs producing 5 W/kg and elite athletes achieving 6 W/kg for similar lengths of time[citation needed]. Elite track sprinters are able to attain an instantaneous maximum output of around 2,000 watts, or in excess of 25 W/kg[citation needed]; elite road cyclists may produce 1,600 to 1,700 watts as an instantaneous maximum in their burst to the finish line at the end of a five-hour long road race[citation needed]. Even at moderate speeds, most power is spent in overcoming the aerodynamic drag force, which increases with the square of speed.[5] Thus, the power required to overcome drag increases with the cube of the speed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

2hp is only 1491 watts.

Andre Greipel in the last tour de france generates 1800W at 250RPM, Marcel Kittel generated 1900W at about the same RPM, and Mark Cavendish about the same as Greipel. 250RPM @1800W gets you about 75-80KMH.

Greg Henderson said via twitter that Greipel was capable of hitting 1800W at any time, but generally they generate about 450-480W at 100RPM.
I generate about 450W at 90RPM, but I can only manage 130RPM max - and I can only keep that kind of power up for about 30 mins. Then I drop to about 350 or so..

For every KG you weigh more than the "average" (about 72kg is optimal for a pro cyclist who is 5'10" - gives the right amount of muscle mass etc) you need to generate about 5W more power to maintain the same speed. Over xmas I was cycling with a "pro" (well, a competitive racer, makes him pro in my mind), and we were going along at about 35kmh by the airport discussing cycling. He said his power meter showed 350W - and reckoned that I was generating 200W more than him to keep up (because I'm fat - 40KG heavier than him).

[iYRe]

:facepalm: The power of top cyclists is widely known, frequently measured and not subject to controversy.

"Andre has won back to back stages in the years Tour de France with wins coming in Stages 4 & 5. Greipel won stage 4 with a max watt output of 1566 watts in the sprint but in stage 5 he had to put out a little more to secure the victory, 1837 watts in total."

http://sportsexerciseengineering.com/2012/07/07/tour-de-france-stage-5-andre-greipels-power-file/

this year it has been more public than usual with the publication of their power measurements for anti drug testing.

[bogan]

:facepalm: The power of top cyclists is widely known, frequently measured and not subject to controversy.

"Andre has won back to back stages in the years Tour de France with wins coming in Stages 4 & 5. Greipel won stage 4 with a max watt output of 1566 watts in the sprint but in stage 5 he had to put out a little more to secure the victory, 1837 watts in total."

http://sportsexerciseengineering.com/2012/07/07/tour-de-france-stage-5-andre-greipels-power-file/

You could forgive me for thinking otherwise when every time it is mentioned on wikipedia somebody has added the [citation needed] flag... that to me suggest it isn't quite as well known or frequently measured as it could be.

Instantaneous power give a nice large number, but it's not exactly practical is it.

[iYRe]

You could forgive me for thinking otherwise when every time it is mentioned on wikipedia somebody has added the [citation needed] flag... that to me suggest it isn't quite as well known or frequently measured as it could be.

Instantaneous power give a nice large number, but it's not exactly practical is it.

its also not instantaneous - they generate it for a minute or so, depending on how far they have to go. Henderson tries to drop greipel in the slot about 200m from the line, but in the last tour, Cav was coming from several hundy metres - sometimes more..

[bogan]

its also not instantaneous - they generate it for a minute or so, depending on how far they have to go. Henderson tries to drop greipel in the slot about 200m from the line, but in the last tour, Cav was coming from several hundy metres - sometimes more..

As riviting as that sounds, I think I'll stick with motogp thanks.

[Gremlin]

My GSA (a damn sight less powerful than a S1000RR) keeps up with cycle races just fine, with a pillion even. They're not all that fast...

Required a lot more feeding too :laugh:

[ducatilover]

Any thinking man uses mechanical advantage. Torque at the rear wheel counts, no where else. That is why an R6 is more torquey than a Hardley.

:laugh: Fuck, mate. That's a can of worms I've been keeping in a cupboard for a long time, no Hardley owner will EVER admit to anything like this. Bigger motors always make more torque and if you disagree you shall be questioned about your sexuality, intelligence and logic do not win arguments, fat fucks with shit bikes do.

[F5 Dave]

if I was a real thinking man I wouldn't have wasted that space between 'No' and 'Where' but there you go.:facepalm:

[Maki]

Torque at the rear wheel IS where it counts. That is why an R6 will leave a Harley in the dust...

[Banditbandit]

I'm terribly sorry - but Hildo here (who is on a harley - which may or may not be a shit bike - but who is not a fat fuck) whips this Fireblade's arse .. not once but twice ... so put your R6 up against Hildo and see who wins ... and who is riding a shit bike ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXsoAdh5P5g

[bogan]

Torque at the rear wheel IS where it counts.

Is that what you used in your first post then? :innocent:

[F5 Dave]

Ah crap I didn't see what you rode. I must have meant to say GasaxeR 600 'cause those R6s are really peaky, - like a 2 stroke (which fails to explain Trials bikes & T500s)

[iYRe]

I'm terribly sorry - but Hildo here (who is on a harley - which may or may not be a shit bike - but who is not a fat fuck) whips this Fireblade's arse .. not once but twice ... so put your R6 up against Hildo and see who wins ... and who is riding a shit bike ...

Not twice, but thrice...

(not entirely a fair drag though...)

[ducatilover]

I'm terribly sorry - but Hildo here (who is on a harley - which may or may not be a shit bike - but who is not a fat fuck) whips this Fireblade's arse .. not once but twice ... so put your R6 up against Hildo and see who wins ... and who is riding a shit bike ...



Yeah, he obviously makes a bit of torque at the rear :bleh:
More than happy to put an R6 up against it.

[Banditbandit]

Not twice, but thrice...

(not entirely a fair drag though...)

I'm not sure what's unfair about it ... looks damm straight to me ... or Maybe Hildo's beard gives him more air resistance ???

[iYRe]

its only over a very short distance - few hundred metres. Give it an actual 1/4 mile and it probably would be a different story..

Still.. most excellent vid.

[onearmedbandit]

I'm terribly sorry - but Hildo here (who is on a harley - which may or may not be a shit bike - but who is not a fat fuck) whips this Fireblade's arse .. not once but twice ... so put your R6 up against Hildo and see who wins ... and who is riding a shit bike ...



Haha the guy on the 'blade couldn't launch to save himself. And the guy on the Harley can just nail it without worrying about flipping. Show me a standard run of the mill Harley that does a 1/4 in under 10.5s and I'll believe you.

[Taxythingy]

+1 to the launching problem. He lost the 0-25km/h drag and couldn't make it up from there. The blade will outperform the harley from about 5-6k rpm, but below that it will get eaten for lunch.

Moral: abuse the clutch. :rockon:

[5150]

So how much torque/ horse power does Lance Armstrong on steroids produce, vs how much would he produce if he was clean. That is probably a better question, considering that most of the Tour de France crotch jokeys take steroids....

[iYRe]

So how much torque/ horse power does Lance Armstrong on steroids produce, vs how much would he produce if he was clean. That is probably a better question, considering that most of the Tour de France crotch jokeys take steroids....

EPO etc do not increase the amount of wattage you produce, but how long you can produce it for

[Berries]

So let's get this straight. I no longer need to wait for the next BMW S1000RR to get off the boat, I just have to go down to the local Rebel Sports and order me some dude with big thighs and a drug habit who wears lycra, shaves his legs and pisses on himself while riding and get my thrills sitting on him through the twisties?




I'm in.

[Ender EnZed]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/p480x480/968806_170924203079378_94651877_n.jpg

[T.W.R]

:msn-wink:


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/101570-HP-amp-torque-document?p=1129263135#post1129263135

[wysper]

Not twice, but thrice...

(not entirely a fair drag though...)

Maybe not fair, but it was smart.
He knew under what conditions he would win.
The other rider didn't think about it.

[Banditbandit]

Haha the guy on the 'blade couldn't launch to save himself. And the guy on the Harley can just nail it without worrying about flipping. Show me a standard run of the mill Harley that does a 1/4 in under 10.5s and I'll believe you.

Yeah ... He just relied on the idea that the blade was faster ... and got his arse kicked ...

The video amuses me ... there is no way that Harley should beat a blade ... Hell, I should beat that Harley on my 650 Bandit ... which I wouldn't even try against a blade ..

[Gremlin]

The video amuses me ... there is no way that Harley should beat a blade ... Hell, I should beat that Harley on my 650 Bandit ... which I wouldn't even try against a blade ..
You'd have a better than average chance against the blade, unless the rider understood the situation and knew what to do.

Pissed a mate off twice in a row on a CB900 vs his tuned and modified ZX10R. The sportsbikes simply don't deliver the power low down, so you'll monster them at least to 50kph, but then they'll gain later. You have to hold the revs up on launch to get off the line quick smart.

Oh, and don't do that on something like a CB900. Launch is quick without revs. With revs you'll looking at the sky :eek5:

[EJK]

Pissed a mate off twice in a row on a CB900 vs his tuned and modified ZX10R. The sportsbikes simply don't deliver the power low down, so you'll monster them at least to 50kph, but then they'll gain later. You have to hold the revs up on launch to get off the line quick smart.

Yeah.... <_< SS bikes seems they can accelerate faster from 100kph to 200kph than 0 to 100kph.

[imdying]

The sportsbikes simply don't deliver the power low downWhat do you reckon oab.... how are those one handed off the throttle wheelies from 3000rpm going? Now power down low ehh... must all be in your imagination :rolleyes:

[Banditbandit]

You'd have a better than average chance against the blade, unless the rider understood the situation and knew what to do.

Pissed a mate off twice in a row on a CB900 vs his tuned and modified ZX10R. The sportsbikes simply don't deliver the power low down, so you'll monster them at least to 50kph, but then they'll gain later. You have to hold the revs up on launch to get off the line quick smart.

Oh, and don't do that on something like a CB900. Launch is quick without revs. With revs you'll looking at the sky :eek5:

Much like my 650 Bandit ... it's the oil/air cooled model - not the revamped water-cooled model - it too runs on higher revs - peak horses is at 95000rpm ... so it sits somewhere between the really revvy sprots bikes and the low down power of the other ILFs ...

It will scare the hell out of many sprots bike riders .... the higher rev range is just enough to give me, like you say, a better than average chance .. even at speed ... against an average sprots bike rider ..

[Gremlin]

What do you reckon oab.... how are those one handed off the throttle wheelies from 3000rpm going? Now power down low ehh... must all be in your imagination :rolleyes:
OK... low down = just off idle. Happy?

Why do sportsbikes have such tall first gears and do 180kph+?

And yet people still loop them :clap:

[ducatilover]

against an average sprots bike rider ..

Of course. That's why Crasherfromwayback will destroy me on a POS 883 (so I'm told, I don't doubt it) even though I have more power/less weight/more gears/superior bike.
So, it means nothing really :innocent:

A K5 Gixxer thou will make more torque than any sub 1000cc IL4 of the era, everywhere. But, it has a mental long 1st gear and a funny ability to flip if you're not terribly good at launching.