Have the police stitched up an innocent man again?

[Katman]

Anyone see the Teina Pora story on Third Degree tonight?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Anyone see the Teina Pora story on Third Degree tonight?

I missed it as I had friends here for dinner. But I'll watch it on demand, as I reckon it's an interesting story. From the very little I have heard...seems like they totally have the wrong guy no?

[scissorhands]

His relatives sold him for the $5,000 reward, and he was also disliked by his homys for being a dumbass.
The cops accommodated these interests to close the books...


For the mentally ill people of NZ
protection agencies such as the police
[primarily the mental health foundation]
need to pick their game up......
as they are looking
like the nasty bullies
that cause some crazies to snap

'Everyone dislikes you, so you must be the problem....'
is what I was told.....
thanks guys for putting the boot in

[Crasherfromwayback]

His relatives sold him for the $5,000 reward, and he was also disliked by his homys for being a dumbass.
The cops accommodated these interests to close the books...


Yeah reward money can sometimes be a double edged sword.

[scissorhands]

Have the police stitched up an innocent man [with metal illness] again?

fixed that for you....

[Katman]

I missed it as I had friends here for dinner. But I'll watch it on demand, as I reckon it's an interesting story. From the very little I have heard...seems like they totally have the wrong guy no?

Well considering a jury ended up convicting Malcolm Rewa (known for his lone wolf offending) for the rape of Susan Burdett (and there is very little likelihood that a Highway 61 member and a Mongrel Mob prospect would work together) it would appear that Teina Pora has served 20 years of a life sentence for a crime he didn't commit.

[Crasherfromwayback]

(and there is very little likelihood that a Highway 61 member and a Mongrel Mob prospect would work together) .

In my experience in dealing with gangs (which is a fair bit)...you'd be 100% correct.

[Katman]

So once again it appears that the police withheld crucial evidence in order to obtain a rape and murder conviction on a person who shouldn't have been charged with anything more than just wasting police time.

Way to go NZ police.

[gammaguy]

Now now,we all know the enzed piggies never let the facts get in the way of a conviction,specially if the fall guy happens to be a tinted person from cannons creek or mangere.

Its how they roll ,and if you grew up in either of those places like I did,you know its true

[Swoop]

It was concerning that the senior police person wasn't even entertaining the concept of reviewing the case.
He did excell in putting on a smug face occasionally... *case closed* - "ding" - "next". So much for being absolutely sure of guilt. At least one detective was following the path of the DNA evidence.

[unstuck]

fixed that for you....

Is that like lead poisoning?.:msn-wink:

Or someone who is addicted to heavy metal?:innocent:

[unstuck]

(and there is very little likelihood that a Highway 61 member and a Mongrel Mob prospect would work together)

Unless the profits are too good to pass up, I know a lot of gang members who put colors aside when it comes to profits.:niceone:

[SMOKEU]

Is anyone surprised? All the government seems to care about is to turn ordinary citizens into criminals, while allowing and even encouraging the real criminals to do what they do best. They do of course bust some real criminals, just to make it appear they're doing something.

[Katman]

Unless the profits are too good to pass up, I know a lot of gang members who put colors aside when it comes to profits.:niceone:

I don't know quite what sort of profit there'd be in raping and murdering someone.

The fact is that the police pursued a conviction that they must have known was highly questionable. They were obviously too focused on looking good in the public eye by being seen to solve a crime. In the meantime Malcolm Rewa went on to rape another 15 women before being caught.

[Paul in NZ]

Look I actually feel bloody sorry for this guy and its an outrage that this is going on and on. This despite my feelings about gang members.

Several years ago we had a brush with a certain ‘detective’ who was involved with a very high profile case which is still being argued. Now remember this was a LONG time back and the Police force recognised the problem and spent a lot of time doing things about it. But this chap was a real right thinking straight laced hard drinking mans man who could spot a weirdo pinky gay faggot wrong un from a mile off and was sure they were probably guilty of ‘something’ so wasn’t too fussy about what it was that actually convicted them.

He was also alcohol dependant and a serial woman beater and just plain nasty violent drunk.

One scary mofo given the power he had to make your life very very miserable.

One hopes that this poor bastard IS compensated… And the force have cleaned up a lot of this crap over the years

[unstuck]

I don't know quite what sort of profit there'd be in raping and murdering someone.

Not what I was referring to at all, but I think you are intelligent enough to work that one out for yourself.:niceone:

[scumdog]

On the face of it 'somebody' dropped the ball a tad eh.

But muggins didn't exactly help himself by volunteering he had kept watch while two others did the rape/murder.
So HE could collect a $20,000 reward...

[Katman]

But muggins didn't exactly help himself by volunteering he had kept watch while two others did the rape/murder.
So HE could collect a $20,000 reward...

Hardly warrants a life sentence.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Davina Murray you mean?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hardly warrants a life sentence.

s66 of the Crimes Act 1066 (regarding parties to offences) says otherwise.

And so do I. Fuck him.

[scumdog]

On the face of it 'somebody' dropped the ball a tad eh.

But muggins didn't exactly help himself by volunteering he had kept watch while two others did the rape/murder.
So HE could collect a $20,000 reward...

And like one or two other cases like this I also wonder; "What were his lawyers doing???"

If it's that easy for TV3 to come up with stuff pointing to his innocence why didn't his lawyers?

[scumdog]

Hardly warrants a life sentence.

Your call.

I didn't mention anything about sentence but I think you need to check some legal facts...:yes:

[Scuba_Steve]

And like one or two other cases like this I also wonder; "What were his lawyers doing???"

If it's that easy for TV3 to come up with stuff pointing to his innocence why didn't his lawyers?

didn't he get talked into waiving his rights to lawyers? or am I thinking of a different one... It's been a few months since I saw this story

[Katman]

And like one or two other cases like this I also wonder; "What were his lawyers doing???"

If it's that easy for TV3 to come up with stuff pointing to his innocence why didn't his lawyers?

What part of 'police with-holding evidence' are you struggling to understand?

At the time, Pora's lawyers probably had no ability to know that the police were convinced they were dealing with a serial rapist - unless the police actually informed them of the fact.

[Katman]

Your call.

I didn't mention anything about sentence but I think you need to check some legal facts...:yes:

Are you saying that you believe making a false confession and wasting police time warrants a life sentence?

[blue rider]

I don't know quite what sort of profit there'd be in raping and murdering someone.

The fact is that the police pursued a conviction that they must have known was highly questionable. They were obviously too focused on looking good in the public eye by being seen to solve a crime. In the meantime Malcolm Rewa went on to rape another 15 women before being caught.



this..........

[Katman]

s66 of the Crimes Act 1066 (regarding parties to offences) says otherwise.

And so do I. Fuck him.

Do you mean the Crimes Act 1961?

If so, it doesn't apply here if all Teina Pora is guilty of is making a false confession.

He certainly didn't do so to aid or abet the offender. He did so because the police led him to believe that he would get $20,000 dollars if he did so.

[scumdog]

What part of 'police with-holding evidence' are you struggling to understand?

At the time, Pora's lawyers probably had no ability to know that the police were convinced they were dealing with a serial rapist - unless the police actually informed them of the fact.

It wouldn't have needed the police to tell them that they were dealing with a serial rapist, the newspapers would have done that...

So apart from TV3 who is 'going in to bat' for Pora?


Maybe Joe Karam will pick up and run with it - a surer bet than David Bain I'd say...

[Katman]

Worth remembering too that six police officers that were involved in the Pora investigation now believe he was wrongly convicted.

[Katman]

It wouldn't have needed the police to tell them that they were dealing with a serial rapist, the newspapers would have done that...



If the police were aware they were dealing with a serial rapist why didn't they inform the defence and why did they pursue a case against Pora?

[Katman]

Interesting too that one of the star prosecution witnesses was paid $5000 to testify, even though that same witness had earlier been ruled by the police to be totally unreliable.

[Smifffy]

One scary mofo given the power he had to make your life very very miserable.

One hopes that this poor bastard IS compensated… And the force have cleaned up a lot of this crap over the years

My interaction earlier this year with a Detective Sergeant from Counties Manukau CIB, and his off-sider, lead me to believe that at least some of this crap is extant.

[98tls]

What i cant work out is how was the guy found guilty? Sure we heard lots of reasons to doubt he did it but on what grounds was he convicted it seems obvious he wasnt even there ie he didnt even know what house it happend in etc.Its one thing for some stupid cunt to put his hand up for something he didnt do but what evidence was there for a jury to find him guilty twice? Wasnt the coppers that found him guilty it was a jury..twice.On the face of it from watching the tv show sure he didnt do it but as i say how the fuck did a jury believe he did? Had a read through here but finding a baseball bat in a park that wasnt used in the murder/his story seemed to change every time he was asked about his involvement hardly seems reason for a jury to find him guilty.http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=teina%20pora&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTeina_P ora&ei=Ndb5Ua_VN4WfkAWkoYCgDw&usg=AFQjCNETZF_0Csr-ePTNHx_caoGHA_d8Cg

[Katman]

On the face of it from watching the tv show sure he didnt do it but as i say how the fuck did a jury believe he did?

Perhaps it had something to do with the story the police concocted.

His false confession wouldn't have helped matters either.

[Jantar]

What i cant work out is how was the guy found guilty? ......
The jury were only presented with a fraction of the evidence that we saw on TV. They heard his confession about being there, but they were not told that another detective believed that the Burdett murder was part of a suspected serial rapists activities. Indeed the evidence for a serial rapist didn't exist until the DNA evidence was made available one month after Pora was found guilty.

[98tls]

The jury were only presented with a fraction of the evidence that we saw on TV. They heard his confession about being there, but they were not told that another detective believed that the Burdett murder was part of a suspected serial rapists activities. Indeed the evidence for a serial rapist didn't exist until the DNA evidence was made available one month after Pora was found guilty.

Makes it worse eh,at the time of the young fellas appeal DNA had proved it was Rewas semen but his appeal gets turned down for the murder:weird:Bet his scabby family fronts up when its compensation time though methinks it will take a lot longer for him to get out of jail than it took to get him in there.

[scissorhands]

This injustice inflicted upon a broken boy will further drive the wedge of dissatisfaction in NZ and western societies

Its not just police here. Its mental health, lawyers who are all feeling the karmic lick of guilt

May they experience the pain and suffering of these poor unfortunates that they condemn.

AND, Rewa could have been stopped, if they were not so busy framing a mentally ill boy

Women around NZ will remember this fact, all too clearly

[oldrider]

Anyone see the Teina Pora story on Third Degree tonight?

If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about! ... In NZ? ... yeah, right! :blip:

[Murray]

The one armed man did it!!

[98tls]

Perhaps it had something to do with the story the police concocted.

His false confession wouldn't have helped matters either.

At the time of the young guys appeal (2000) the DNA had proved that Rewa had raped the women,surely the defense council knew that,what i am trying to say is that the evidence the jury convivted him of the first time must have been flimsy at best and if at the appeal stage the semen was proven to be someone elses then he must have had a fucking bad lawyer.

[Smifffy]

This injustice inflicted upon a broken boy will further drive the wedge of dissatisfaction in NZ and western societies

Its not just police here. Its mental health, lawyers who are all feeling the karmic lick of guilt

May they experience the pain and suffering of these poor unfortunates that they condemn.

AND, Rewa could have been stopped, if they were not so busy framing a mentally ill boy

Women around NZ will remember this fact, all too clearly

Bollocks.

Police, mental health and lawyers wouldn't know what a guilty conscience is. Women around NZ might remember this fact (TM Edbear) but it will do them fuck all good.

[Katman]

At the time of the young guys appeal (2000) the DNA had proved that Rewa had raped the women,surely the defense council knew that,what i am trying to say is that the evidence the jury convivted him of the first time must have been flimsy at best and if at the appeal stage the semen was proven to be someone elses then he must have had a fucking bad lawyer.

While Malcolm Rewa was found guilty of Susan Burdett's rape he was not found guilty of her murder.

One has to assume that the jury still accepted that Pora and Rewa worked together in the crime and that while Rewa raped Susan it was Pora who murdered her.

As has already been said though, Rewa always acted alone and there is very little likelihood that he would have ever teamed up with a Mongrel Mob prospect anyway. There's no love lost between the Mongrel Mob and Highway 61.

All the evidence now suggests that Pora was never even at the crime scene.

[98tls]

In that 1st link i posted its states "the crowns case was that Pora wasnt the killer but was there with others" so how on earth did a jury decide he was the killer with no physical evidence to even show he was in the house.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teina_Pora#Concerns_about_convictionWhilst the cops may have provided the rope to hang this guy his laywer and 2 jurys put it round his neck and pulled the lever surely.That said i feel fuck all pity for the muppet he stuck his hand up in order to gain financially the ironic thing being his own family stuck theres up to help put him away,the saddest part of all this is the women who suffered after the fact.

[duckonin]

If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about! ... In NZ? ... yeah, right! :blip:

Oldrider your right on. But the rest of the world (police) can be just as bad if not worse. In my opinion trust none of the cunts. Dysfunctional, corrupt, racist also spring to mind.:facepalm: These are persons we are lead to believe are honest, trustworthy, yeah right and I am fucking Santa Claus .

[Smifffy]

Oldrider your right on. But the rest of the world (police) can be just as bad if not worse. In my opinion trust none of the cunts. Dysfunctional, corrupt, racist also spring to mind.:facepalm: These are persons we are lead to believe are honest, trustworthy, yeah right and I am fucking Santa Claus .

Is Santa a good root?

[Road kill]

As far as I'm concerned the cops prevented a rape or murder,or some other horrendous crimes who's victims may of been my mum "or yours".

So fuck him he's just an oxygen thief that's better off dead.

[Katman]

As far as I'm concerned the cops prevented a rape or murder,or some other horrendous crimes who's victims may of been my mum "or yours".

So fuck him he's just an oxygen thief that's better off dead.

You haven't read anything about the case, have you?

[scumdog]

Dysfunctional, corrupt, racist also spring to mind.:facepalm: These are persons we are lead to believe are honest, trustworthy, yeah right and I am fucking Santa Claus .

Sums up most of New Zealand....

And you expect to recruit perfect cops from that lot...:rolleyes::whistle:

[Road kill]

You haven't read anything about the case, have you?

I've read all of it.

I simply don't care,,,one out of the way,,tough shit.

I don't care if the cops were lazy or stupid or crooked or any of the shit you lot are "really" on about.

All I care about is that he is locked away where he can't do harm,and I don't give a shit how he got there.

Now start wanking on about Rewa,,,go on we both know you want to !

[Katman]

As far as I'm concerned the cops prevented a rape or murder,or some other horrendous crimes who's victims may of been my mum "or yours".


No they didn't.

Their incompetence/deceit allowed a rapist to carry on to rape 15 more women.

[Drew]

This injustice inflicted upon a broken boy will further drive the wedge of dissatisfaction in NZ and western societies

Its not just police here. Its mental health, lawyers who are all feeling the karmic lick of guilt

May they experience the pain and suffering of these poor unfortunates that they condemn.

AND, Rewa could have been stopped, if they were not so busy framing a mentally ill boy

Women around NZ will remember this fact, all too clearly
The way you fucken harp on about this shit, since you got confirmation that you're fucked in the head, is really starting to make me think the bigots have it right after all!

Blame as many cunting departments as you like, but the problems start in the homes of you lot. Parents not wanting to do anything for fear of admitting they sired a weirdo, IS the biggest problem.

I don't give a fat rats crack if you wanna wank on about that being because society stigmatised it, proper parents would seek help anyway...And the good ones do!

[Drew]

No they didn't.

Their incompetence/deceit allowed a rapist to carry on to rape 15 more women.He yelled "surprise" fuck ya. So it wasn't rape!

[Smifffy]

Sums up most of New Zealand....

And you expect to recruit perfect cops from that lot...:rolleyes::whistle:

Must be why we are now bringing em in from England & Oz...

[duckonin]

Sums up most of New Zealand....

And you expect to recruit perfect cops from that lot...:rolleyes::whistle:

Immaterial where you recruit persons from, they may start out as honest, but in a short while of being in the blue uniform the gang/bully mentality forms and without spending a dollar on training you have one fully trained cunt ! :facepalm:

[scumdog]

Must be why we are now bringing em in from England & Oz...

And things are SO much better in those places eh...:shutup:

[scumdog]

Immaterial where you recruit persons from, they may start out as honest, but in a short while of being in the blue uniform the gang/bully mentality forms and without spending a dollar on training you have one fully trained cunt ! :facepalm:

Nobody told me that before, I had better get started...

[Drew]

one fully trained cunt ! :facepalm:


Nobody told me that before, I had better get started...

All of a sudden, I think I could become a cop after all!

[Smifffy]

Immaterial where you recruit persons from, they may start out as honest, but in a short while of being in the blue uniform the gang/bully mentality forms and without spending a dollar on training you have one fully trained cunt ! :facepalm:

Yup, but that's not limited to the popo - runs the same for any number of GC, salt of the earth types that end up going on Councils, into parliament, union delegates, from the floor to management etc.

[Smifffy]

And things are SO much better in those places eh...:shutup:

Go figure - turns out they're probably even bigger arseholes than the kiwi sourced ones. I think it's more to do with the corporatisation of the police, with their KAs, KPIs, outputs etc. Go back to letting the poor dumb bastards use their judgemnet on a case by case basis I reckon.

I'm sure with a few more heinekens I'll have the whole thing figured out.

[Banditbandit]

I've read all of it.

I simply don't care,,,one out of the way,,tough shit.

I don't care if the cops were lazy or stupid or crooked or any of the shit you lot are "really" on about.

All I care about is that he is locked away where he can't do harm,and I don't give a shit how he got there.

Now start wanking on about Rewa,,,go on we both know you want to !

See .. that's the problem right there ... Teina Pora is locked up for a crime he did not commit .. he did not harm anyone ... he is innocent ... why does he need to be locked up where he can do no harm ???

I see another Māori boy who is the victim of the system .. and will now hate everything and everyone much worse than he may have done in the first place ... and he will get out eventually ...

That means that locking him in prison has NOT solved a problem because no problem existed .. locking him in prison creates a future problem when a victimized, angry and brutalized person is released back into the community ...

You say you don't care about him .. is it any wonder that he hates you right back ??? And won't give a fuck about you, anything you have, the people you care about or your world ... he won't give a fuck about what you think ...

Who created that situation ? Teina Pora ?? His parents ?? Or the police and other uncaring fuckers like you ???

[Banditbandit]

He yelled "surprise" fuck ya. So it wasn't rape!

Who did ??? Are you taklking about Teina Pora or Malcolm Rewa ..

Teina Pora is not doing time for rape ...

[Swoop]

See .. that's the problem right there ... Teina Pora is locked up for a crime he did not commit .. he did not harm anyone ... he is innocent ... why does he need to be locked up where he can do no harm ???

I wonder about that as well. The smugness on the police assistant comissioner seems to indicate they are happy to get a 2-for-1 deal of arrests from this. A rapist/murderer and a gang prospect as a bonus.

[Banditbandit]

I wonder about that as well. The smugness on the police assistant comissioner seems to indicate they are happy to get a 2-for-1 deal of arrests from this. A rapist/murderer and a gang prospect as a bonus.

Yes. Pora is no innocent - he was a prospect and he had convictions for burglary ... he's also not very bright (I'm not sure about his mental health, but it's clear he's a few briks short ...) ... but he is locked up for a long time for a crime he did not commit - that's going to really fuck him up and there will be future consquences when he is released ...

It also pisses off all the other people around him who know he is innocent ...

[duckonin]

I see another Māori boy who is the victim of the system ..


Really u racist cunt ! Typical of you inbred mutts, always choosing the way of the lesser culture within your blood lines for sympathy. Why not 'just another' person within the system? Pora was creating his own road to jail. Happened he got there a mite faster, via system corruption.

[Banditbandit]

Really u racist cunt ! Typical of you inbred mutts, always choosing the way of the lesser culture within your blood lines for sympathy. Why not 'just another' person within the system? Pora was creating his own road to jail. Happened he got there a mite faster, via system corruption.

Yers - I agree he was creating his own way to jail ... maybe not for murder but certainly on that road ...

The system is built on lines of the dominant white culture - i.e. European-derived white middle class and probably patriachal ... that's NOT a race-based allegation it's a cultural based allegation - I hope you understand the difference. (Race is a void concept and always has been)

The system discriminates against Māori ... not hard to show ... it discriminates against anybody not from the Eurpoean-derived white midele class male culture ... except the ruling class .. because iot's their system ... and as you say is corrupt.

[Drew]

The system discriminates against Māori ... not hard to show I am not saying you're wrong, but you are saying it without context.

Maori make up a disproportionate percentage of law breakers also. For whatever reason, it still shouldn't be forgotten.

Fair go or not, right and wrong is known, and more often disregarded.

[Banditbandit]

I am not saying you're wrong, but you are saying it without context.

Maori make up a disproportionate percentage of law breakers also. For whatever reason, it still shouldn't be forgotten.

Fair go or not, right and wrong is known, and more often disregarded.

Yes - there's a good chance you are right ... HOWVER .. and it's a big however ... I acknowlege there are more Maori convicted and in jail .. does that mean they break the law more often or that, having broken the law, they are more likely to be prosecuted ??

Māori rates of prosecution are high ... how much of that is because they are just more bad than their non-Maori counterparts or is it because the police are more likely to prosecute Maori ???


“A report by Auckland University academic Kylee Quince also reported that Maori adults were 3.8 times more likely to be prosecuted than non-Maori and 3.9 times more likely to be convicted of an offence. Nine times as many Maori than non-Maori are remanded in custody awaiting trial.

Prosecution is a discretionary decision. The Police will weigh the strength of evidence, previous offending and support networks. What the recent and past figures reveal is that race is the unspoken consideration. It’s the elephant in the room that the Police Minister and her department are desperate to deny. "

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1304/S00212/more-needs-to-be-done-to-reduce-the-maori-prosecution-rate.htm

Those are frightening findings - shows the system discriminates against Māori ..

[oldrider]

Yes - there's a good chance you are right ... HOWVER .. and it's a big however ... I acknowlege there are more Maori convicted and in jail .. does that mean they break the law more often or that, having broken the law, they are more likely to be prosecuted ??

Māori rates of prosecution are high ... how much of that is because they are just more bad than their non-Maori counterparts or is it because the police are more likely to prosecute Maori ???


“A report by Auckland University academic Kylee Quince also reported that Maori adults were 3.8 times more likely to be prosecuted than non-Maori and 3.9 times more likely to be convicted of an offence. Nine times as many Maori than non-Maori are remanded in custody awaiting trial.

Prosecution is a discretionary decision. The Police will weigh the strength of evidence, previous offending and support networks. What the recent and past figures reveal is that race is the unspoken consideration. It’s the elephant in the room that the Police Minister and her department are desperate to deny. "

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1304/S00212/more-needs-to-be-done-to-reduce-the-maori-prosecution-rate.htm

Those are frightening findings - shows the system discriminates against Māori ..

I used to think that sort of stuff was bullshit until recently when that Maori fellow doing the passport stuff up North was sentenced!

Then take into comparison what the so called white collar criminals have been getting as "Claytons" sentences over the last few years!

I really do believe the statistics are, in the majority, true! ... It fucking stinks IMHO! :mad:

Judges, lawyers and so called Justice are part of the problem rather than the solution too, IMHO! :brick:

Universities just keep churning out more and more lawyers every year, need them or not, wouldn't make much sense in the manufacturing world doing the same thing.

Like asking the rabbit boards to get rid of rabbits, it's their rice bowl ffs! ... Maybe Maori are regarded as the Lawyers basic rice bowl! :sick:

[Winston001]

... Maybe Maori are regarded as the Lawyers basic rice bowl! :sick:

LOL John. Just a small correction. Young lawyers start with a year of doing duty solictor and low level legal aid work and then never go near the criminal courts ever again. Only a few lawyers continue with full time criminal representation. Its low paid - often unpaid - and generally unsatisfying work, but for a few it can also be the right choice.

However because the news thrives on high profile criminal cases there is an impression heaps of lawyers are in the courts and all making a good living. The reality is you couldn't drag most lawyers kicking and screaming anywhere near a criminal case. :D

[pete376403]

Gregg Oconnor and the Police Association are now asking for the case to looked at. Must be a pretty dodgy conviction if they want it investigated.

[unstuck]

Judges, lawyers and so called Justice are part of the problem rather than the solution too, IMHO! :brick:

In my recent experience, I would agree with you 100% on that fella. Just a big joke is our so called justice system. More like, how can we keep ourselves employed system.:wacko:

[scissorhands]

That comment begs the question ... should they be allowed to be parents? ... and that begs the question ... who should decide such things? etc, etc, etc? :facepalm:

As birth defects are on the increase, and society struggles with historical ones, it would seem prudent that genetic accessments of parents are offered




The system discriminates against Māori ... not hard to show ... it discriminates against anybody not from the Eurpoean-derived white midele class male culture ... except the ruling class .. because iot's their system ... and as you say is corrupt.

Sadly for Pora he is Maori and with a mental difference, possibly an autism. So he got shafted twice as hard




Judges, lawyers and so called Justice are part of the problem rather than the solution too, IMHO! :brick:



The problems for maori and for the mentally diverse are not just limited to parts of society. All of society is practising ostracisation of these groups.

The people who run the show, who dictate policy from the top down, are the real offenders here.

By alienating and bullying certain groups, many from these groups rage out against society and their own.
As can be seen in infanticide of Maori children, rage killings in the USA[david gray/columbine style homicides], drug use and feelings of hopelessness. Beyond extreme examples, are thousands more caught in this nightmare

Police are part of the problem, though communities and families inflict most harm on those outside the apple pie box,

due to lack of awareness.... go back to sleep NZ

Poor lifestyles, work environments, addiction and pollution contribute greatly to mental illness and defective genes, though nature will always create unhealthy units. Preventing reproduction is a stitch in time.
Not advising potential parents of an impending new life of pain, is profitable for medical groups, whose profits would diminish if suffering was reduced.

Medical groups and corporations grow when communities suffer

See the real enemy here. Profit over people

[Drew]

The problems for maori and for the mentally diverse are not just limited to parts of society. All of society is practising ostracisation of these groups.Yet both groups work quite hard to continue the segragation of society!


The people who run the show, who dictate policy from the top down, are the real offenders here.

Might not be doing all they can, but they have to battle both sides at once. Why fucken bother?

[Banditbandit]

Now let's get this straight - I do not see it as a Māori issue ... sure there is a correlation between crime stats and Māori ethnicity .. howver it is a crrelation and not a causality ...

Crime and proverty are pretty strongly linked as a causality (not hard to find this stuff) ... "high risk" groups are the lower decile groups ... if you look at pre-sentnece incomes of prisoners and other crims, I'll lay good money that a huge percentage (and I'm thinking here 80-90%) will be less than $40,000. Or less than the average wage. Sure there are white collar crims and a few high earners .. but most earn bugger all money ...

Māori happen to be in the lower decile groups ... action of the immigrant culture of the past 200 years have put Māori into these groups ...

During the first half of the 19th Century our ancestors were buiolding this country into an international trading country - they grew food (fruit and vegetables) and sold these in the growing towns and shopped them to Australia . they went aroud the world and saw other countries .. they learnt to read and write faster than any other indigenous population ..

Then what happened? The forces of the incoming group wiped everything out in the wars - and there was no chance to rebuild ... Māori had huge tracts of land confiscated and were consigned to the lower echelons of the new society - schools were established to teach Māori boys to be farm labourers and Māori girls to be doemstic servants - when they had been the owners and producers on their own land ... Thyat was a massive loss of economic power and the consignment of Māori to the ranks of the poor ..

Now we are all reaping the harvest of what was sown then ... Māori are still disproportionally represented in the lower income groups - and therefore into the flow on effects - disproportionally represented in the prison population, poor health and education outcomes ... and all the consequences that go with high rates of poverty ...

You will find these things common in the poor of European-descent as well ... crime, child abuse, alcohol and drug abuse, domestic violence, low education, poor health ...

This is not a Māori issue - it's a poverty issue ... compounded by the racist system run by racist people ... especially those who will see this as an ethnicity argument and refuse to see that it is a poverty issue ...

Until people see this as a povertry issue and deal with it as such nothing will change ..

[Drew]

Now let's get this straight - I do not see it as a Māori issue ... sure there is a correlation between crime stats and Māori ethnicity .. howver it is a crrelation and not a causality ...

Crime and proverty are pretty strongly linked as a causality (not hard to find this stuff) ... "high risk" groups are the lower decile groups ... if you look at pre-sentnece incomes of prisoners and other crims, I'll lay good money that a huge percentage (and I'm thinking here 80-90%) will be less than $40,000. Or less than the average wage. Sure there are white collar crims and a few high earners .. but most earn bugger all money ...

Māori happen to be in the lower decile groups ... action of the immigrant culture of the past 200 years have put Māori into these groups ...

During the first half of the 19th Century our ancestors were buiolding this country into an international trading country - they grew food (fruit and vegetables) and sold these in the growing towns and shopped them to Australia . they went aroud the world and saw other countries .. they learnt to read and write faster than any other indigenous population ..

Then what happened? The forces of the incoming group wiped everything out in the wars - and there was no chance to rebuild ... Māori had huge tracts of land confiscated and were consigned to the lower echelons of the new society - schools were established to teach Māori boys to be farm labourers and Māori girls to be doemstic servants - when they had been the owners and producers on their own land ... Thyat was a massive loss of economic power and the consignment of Māori to the ranks of the poor ..

Now we are all reaping the harvest of what was sown then ... Māori are still disproportionally represented in the lower income groups - and therefore into the flow on effects - disproportionally represented in the prison population, poor health and education outcomes ... and all the consequences that go with high rates of poverty ...

You will find these things common in the poor of European-descent as well ... crime, child abuse, alcohol and drug abuse, domestic violence, low education, poor health ...

This is not a Māori issue - it's a poverty issue ... compounded by the racist system run by racist people ... especially those who will see this as an ethnicity argument and refuse to see that it is a poverty issue ...

Until people see this as a povertry issue and deal with it as such nothing will change ..
Shut up you. I'm trying to start an argument with the spastics!

[GCSB Thought Police]

Gregg Oconnor and the Police Association are now asking for the case to looked at. Must be a pretty dodgy conviction if they want it investigated.

Some very senior people are not happy about that at all. There will be action taken.

[Banditbandit]

Some very senior people are not happy about that at all. There will be action taken.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl::rofl:


Right now you'd better check with Judith Collins, John Key and John Campbell before you take action on anything at all. It's all coming back to bite you now ... don't even fart without Johns' permissions ...

[scissorhands]

Everyone now knows its a stitch up
But politics and the mental illness industry
are corrupting the process
of assimilating the truth

Crucifixion
aint no fiction

[Drew]

Everyone now knows its a stitch up
But politics and the mental illness industry
are corrupting the process
of assimilating the truth

Crucifixion
aint no fictionDid I miss the bit where he was diagnosed with a mental health issue?... Other than simply not being overly bright.

[Kickaha]

Did I miss the bit where he was diagnosed with a mental health issue?...
Was he autistic too?

[Smifffy]

Was he autistic too?

Nah. Just a fuckwit. It's becoming increasingly difficult to tell the difference.

[scissorhands]

Did I miss the bit where he was diagnosed with a mental health issue?... Other than simply not being overly bright.

he got the eyes eh

check out this undiagnosed Maori puppy http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/48461-cannabis-protest-outside-court.html

[98tls]

he got the eyes eh

Hollow?just like his skull.

[Smifffy]

Too close together, too far apart, staring, avoiding eye contact. All are dead give aways for autism....

[blackdog]

fixed that for you....

From post #5. I can't quickly work out how to change a quote of Katman's that was altered (fixed) so you'll have to review it yerselves to know what I'm on about.

I also have the illness scissorhands refers to.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ODNxy3YOPU

[scissorhands]

Sepultura 'I like'
Welcome to the club

sounds like half these morons wouldnt know a mental illness if it bit them on the ass,
and wish to stitch up more mentally ill peeps too

all this lack of empathy
for those with genetic disorders
reminds me of a diagnoses
that does not exist
because its so prevalent
its called psychopathy:(

[Drew]

Sepultura 'I like'
Welcome to the club

sounds like half these morons wouldnt know a mental illness if it bit them on the ass,
and wish to stitch up more mentally ill peeps too

all this lack of empathy
for those with genetic disorders
reminds me of a diagnoses
that does not exist
because its so prevalent
its called psychopathy:(
Sepultura have a couple good tracks, most of it's shit though.

I certainly don't want anyone stitched up, but I don't see how it helps to label everyone wrongly imprisoned of ill mental health.

It serves no one, so I don't understand your little crusade on here.

[scissorhands]

Sepultura have a couple good tracks, most of it's shit though.

I certainly don't want anyone stitched up, but I don't see how it helps to label everyone wrongly imprisoned of ill mental health.

It serves no one, so I don't understand your little crusade on here.

All I'm wishing is to lower the bar on 'disability'
'Disability spectrum' is a state construct, pertaining to tax funded services
It moves as social changes dictate who 'we' as a society feel needs assistance

Check out all the wheelchair ramps and bigger toilets that are almost never used

The budget at autismnz for adult aspies is $20 a month, for the whole of auckland....it covers coffee and biscuits, which actually do more harm than good for significant autisms....

2 drop in meetings at their offices a month so they can monitor your behaviour

No courses for social skills, as they do not really wish you to improve your lot, at all

10,000's of undiagnosed aspies in orks alone....


This is the next human rights frontier since race equality and womens issues.

Big problem, aspies cannot self advocate, so are at the mercy of corrupt charities

Time is ticking down for these thieves and liars of my people.


------------------------------------

An autism charity has spent spending millions raising money for education programs an only a fraction of their funds being directed towards the cause, a new investigation revealed.

The Autism Spectrum Disorder Foundation raised more than $7.6million over the course of two years, but more than 90 per cent of those funds were used to pay donation-solicitation companies.

The Tampa Bay Times and the Center for Investigative Reporting has revealed that charity- which says it intends to educate the public about autism and provide financial assistance for those with the disease- is now the worst charity in terms of putting their funds towards their stated goal.

Autism Spectrum did not initially make the list of the top five worst charities in America when the investigative group released earlier this year.

The Center for Investigative Reporting now explained that the reason for the oversight was because the charity understated their fundraising totals on IRS forms.

The charity- which also goes by the Autism Awareness Program and Autistic Children of America- explains on their website that the 'funds donated to ASDF will be used to address any and all kinds of issues in assisting children with autism and their families'.

The new totals provide a shameful look into the Schererville, Indiana-based charity's operations.
According to their 2009 to 2011 IRS 990 filings, the charity raised a total of $7.8million.
The group farmed out much of the fundraising to solicitation companies, which collected $7.6million of that total.

That work came at a cost, however, and the Autism Spectrum Disorder Foundation paid the solicitation companies $7million over to course of those three years.
All told, the Center for Investigative Journalism reports that they spent $2.3million on their stated charitable programs.

The discrepancy between the amount they pay groups to raise for donations and the amount they actually put towards promoting autism awareness earns them the troubling title of the worst charity in the country.

In their previous list, the investigative team reported that the Breast Cancer Relief Foundation spent 84 per cent of their donations on professional solicitation services, while the Cancer Fund of America followed with 83 per cent and the American Breast Cancer Foundation with 82 per cent.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2384907/Autism-Spectrum-Disorder-Foundation-revealed-worst-charity-America.html

--------------------------------

I generally do nopt donate to charity because a lot of charities just make lots of money for their directors to go on foreign holidays and buy expensive cars and generally do not do anything for. Even in autism issues some so called charities are really extreme right wing political paries devoted to eliminating autistic people in principle but just make the leaders of these political organisations very rich and endorsed by so many so called celebrities is an absolute disgrace. It's all about the massaging of the allistic ego in my opinion not being a selfish git at all. If any work is actually done is mainly seminars which have a price to attend in which people are invited to speak but in the end nothing gets done ecept is that there is a lot of coffee drinking and cake eating going on and nothing is learned

---------------------------

I recent heard a 1 hour presentation from the heart foundation.

Totally bad science and mostly political clap trap...

99% of charities are bullshit

[Drew]

That's all well and good. My family had to deal with the issues pertaining to physical disability for eighteen years, until my brothers death. Those ramps and toilets that 'don't get used', we had to search those out every time we wanted to do something.

Your 'next issue', is high on he list to you. But it's just another thing to soak up the woefully underfunded health budget for ALL disabled people to others.

Try and see a bigger picture, and not focus on trying to get funding for one small percentage of special needs.

One on one teaching/training is the best way to help 'your people', no? So go the education budget, the health system is overloaded now.

[scissorhands]

does it burn?

[Banditbandit]

All I'm wishing is to lower the bar on 'disability'
'Disability spectrum' is a state construct, pertaining to tax funded services
It moves as social changes dictate who 'we' as a society feel needs assistance

Check out all the wheelchair ramps and bigger toilets that are almost never used

The budget at autismnz for adult aspies is $20 a month, for the whole of auckland....it covers coffee and biscuits, which actually do more harm than good for significant autisms....

2 drop in meetings at their offices a month so they can monitor your behaviour

No courses for social skills, as they do not really wish you to improve your lot, at all

10,000's of undiagnosed aspies in orks alone....


This is the next human rights frontier since race equality and womens issues.

Big problem, aspies cannot self advocate, so are at the mercy of corrupt charities

Time is ticking down for these thieves and liars of my people.


Fuck - you're stuck in the WRONG approach ... Aspergers is NOT a disease that needs to be cured. I've NEVER had any sort of training course for social skils - people either get on with me or fuck 'em .. I refuse to change to meet their expectations ... (being polite is being polite)

Yeah, I agree - money for tea and biscuits (sugar bombs) is a pretty stupid thing for the Society to be doing - ONE reason why I have nothing to do with them ... (another is that despite being a high functioning one, my preference would be to sit in the corner silently rocking to myself - so I am pretty anti-social and a loner .. Riding bikes is just sitting still and silent and rocking - at high speed. I love Internet communication - I'm not forced to look at people's faces or in their eyes when I communicate this way)

Foucault was right - Society defines mental illneses to exclude people and to control society - I refuse to be excluded, I refuse to be defined outside the norm ... I pretty much refuse to be defined! I'm here and deal with me, not some fucking construct ... I'm different - a lttle more different than the average - but fuck we are all individuals ...

Get over youself - you are not what others define you as ..


That's all well and good. My family had to deal with the issues pertaining to physical disability for eighteen years, until my brothers death. Those ramps and toilets that 'don't get used', we had to search those out every time we wanted to do something.

Your 'next issue', is high on he list to you. But it's just another thing to soak up the woefully underfunded health budget for ALL disabled people to others.

Try and see a bigger picture, and not focus on trying to get funding for one small percentage of special needs.

One on one teaching/training is the best way to help 'your people', no? So go the education budget, the health system is overloaded now.

Drew's right .. we are non-neurotypical - So fucking what !!! There is a greater need for the health and education spend than to babysit a bunch of under/over developed socially inept self-centred (and I really mean that .. some Auts are so self centred they don't even acknowledge the world around them - wanna argue??? I know what goes on inside my non-neurotypical head ... ) people who see the world a little different from the rest of the population ...

Other people deal with much more serious disabilities issues every day - up to and including (as Drew says) fatal ones ... the only thing fatal about Aspergers is that sometimes we manage to kill ourselves ...

Get over yourself. You're not disabled - just think differently to the majority of the people around you ...

[Banditbandit]

Yeah .. I'm a tad pissed at you right now - I'll get over it ..

[scissorhands]

........So fucking what !!! ...............

............Get over yourself. You're not disabled - just think differently to the majority of the people around you ...

I'm sorry, you must be confusing me with a pig

[Banditbandit]

I'm sorry, you must be confusing me with a pig

:rofl: :rofl: :wings: :clap: :rofl: :killingme:

Fuck .. that made me laugh so hard I can't possibly be pissed any more ...

[scissorhands]

Yeah .. I'm a tad pissed at you right now - I'll get over it ..

Its called minimizing. People do this to allay their own discomfort when faced with someone else's problem.

I'll forgive you when I get over it

[Smifffy]

Fuck - you're stuck in the WRONG approach ... (brevity edit) ...


That's quite possibly the most intelligent, insightful, well written thing I've read on KB.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That's quite possibly the most intelligent, insightful, well written thing I've read on KB.

You've obviously never read any of my posts then!:innocent: