NZSBK 2014 dates

[gixerracer]

No Auckland round of the NZSBK Series WOW this is a first Hahahaha





I am pleased to be able to FINALLY be able to release the confirmed dates for the 2014 NZSBK series,They are as follows:

Round 1 Ruapuna park January 4th and 5th inc NZGPs
Round 2 Levels raceway January 11th and 12th
Round 3 Taupo Motorsport park March 22nd and 23rd inc NZTTs
Round 4 Manfeild park March 27th,28th,29th.

The final round at Manfeild will be an extended event with 5 races for each class.

Graeme Billington,
Roadrace commissioner
Motorcycling NZ

[codgyoleracer]

14 races, so up 4 overall compared to previous format, and a point for getting pole position in qualifying.

[roogazza]

14 races, so up 4 overall compared to previous format, and a point for getting pole position in qualifying.
Does that mean the extra races at manfeild are for points as well ? Or just extra races ?

[steveyb]

Interesting!...

[codgyoleracer]

Does that mean the extra races at manfeild are for points as well ? Or just extra races ?

All are points races, I wonder what the Goss is on Hampton being scratched ?

[Kiwi Graham]

No goss mate, just not viable.
We have taken to big a loss running this event for a while now (last 4 years)
Tried a different approach, appealing to a greater variety of the public but still lost.

[sharky]

No goss mate, just not viable.
We have taken to big a loss running this event for a while now (last 4 years)
Tried a different approach, appealing to a greater variety of the public but still lost.


Stink, that's the only track I'm any good on - haha.

So where do we find the info on the new format - can't see anything on MNZ website???

[Robert Taylor]

Well done MNZ! Sensible number of rounds and races ( 2 per round would have been better though ), less cost and time away for all concerned.

[CHOPPA]

Would be keen to see how many laps etc each race is so we can order the correct compound rubber etc

Shame about HDs and Teretonga, my 2 strongest tracks :doh:

[SWERVE]

Would be keen to see how many laps etc each race is so we can order the correct compound rubber etc

Shame about HDs and Teretonga, my 2 strongest tracks :doh:

Be nice to know the weather....... so you can order the correct compound:laugh: At least we have ruled out the wet tracks:bleh:

[Robert Taylor]

No goss mate, just not viable.
We have taken to big a loss running this event for a while now (last 4 years)
Tried a different approach, appealing to a greater variety of the public but still lost.

And I guess you had more than a few riders grizzling about the cost of entry? Dont you realise Graham that you should run as a charity?

[gixerracer]

And I guess you had more than a few riders grizzling about the cost of entry? Dont you realise Graham that you should run as a charity?

Not to mention paying a squillion dollars for a garage only for it to be wetter inside the garage than outside when it rains

[Robert Taylor]

Not to mention paying a squillion dollars for a garage only for it to be wetter inside the garage than outside when it rains

Auckland builders left over from the leaky homes debacle?

[gixerracer]

Auckland builders left over from the leaky homes debacle?

Hampton DOwns have been taking the piss sincne they opened. Charging full prcie ( which would be fine for something that was finished) for a hlf track and leaking sheds. WTF:brick:

[quickbuck]

Stink, that's the only track I'm any good on - haha.


That Sir is the most original Racers Excuse I have heard this month ;)

Seriously though, a little gutted HD is dropped myself, however 5 races in my own back yard (and Team Air Force Racings Home/ Test Track) certainly makes up for it!

[Robert Taylor]

Hampton DOwns have been taking the piss sincne they opened. Charging full prcie ( which would be fine for something that was finished) for a hlf track and leaking sheds. WTF:brick:

BUT, Hamstrung Downs are abundantly sorted in respect of kitty litter!

[slowpoke]

WTF?! So this is for bloody real? I saw the Feilding Flyer post this last night and thought he must have been giggling over his bourbon while stirring the pot. Jeezus, Manfeild has gone from not even being on the calendar to becoming the main event, lol.

Pity the way it's worked out but ya can only piss with the cock ya got.

[codgyoleracer]

WTF?! So this is for bloody real? I saw the Feilding Flyer post this last night and thought he must have been giggling over his bourbon while stirring the pot. Jeezus, Manfeild has gone from not even being on the calendar to becoming the main event, lol.

Pity the way it's worked out but ya can only piss with the cock ya got.


Yes Spud, whilst this IS Kiwibiker, and most of what comes from the pie quaffing, cake gobbling, beer swilling parts of Feilding is rather suspect - in this case it appears to be for real ! WOW :-)

Manfeild is back with avengance, shame its just three dragstrips with a couple of hairpins.........., GSXRs seem to like it thou.... :-)

[codgyoleracer]

Hampton DOwns have been taking the piss sincne they opened. Charging full prcie ( which would be fine for something that was finished) for a hlf track and leaking sheds. WTF:brick:

Basic numbers is the problem:
1) Borrow 50 million at 6.3% interest, with 50 year payback.
2) You'll be needing to find roughly $82000 in loose change per month for the first few years, just to keep up with paying that back
3) Add to that the day to day business costs to run operate the track, (on average staff with vehicles are $100K ea PA)
4) Add maintenance on track and buildings + specialty equipment etc
5) Add to that a profit margin for the owner/investor, at between 7 - 11%
6) Oh and the taxman will be wanting his share too

It all adds up to a very big number, just to cover your arse, and assuming it is impractical to have a track hired out for more than 80% of available days, it makes it even tougher. Plus we wont mention what happens when some knob builds a house nearby and decides he/she doesnt want to hear the track vehicles in the far distance......

Result, - A high risk investment "if" youve borrowed a lot to make it happen.

Only way it works is if the likes of the super rich fund this sort of stuff out of cash in the bank, or governments / councils tip a bunch of support funding into it with no expectation of being paid back.

[steveyb]

Meh, you and your sound business analysis..........

[codgyoleracer]

Meh, you and your sound business analysis..........

Its pretty much the same as running a race team Steve ? ....... Just a different scale :-)

[steveyb]

The way to make a small fortune; start with a big one......

[Robert Taylor]

No Auckland round of the NZSBK Series WOW this is a first Hahahaha

Its just occurred that 5 races for each class at the final round is a ridiculous and over compressed workload for all the support crew and specialists involved in helping the riders get their fix on the track......I dont think enough consideration is given to that factor and that most of these people are unpaid and it actually costs them money and downtime to be there. While many may be enthusiastic its easy to see that such a workload will potentially wear thin such enthusiasm. Why not just run as per the other meetings and keep it sensible and in fact more affordable?

[codgyoleracer]

Its just occurred that 5 races for each class at the final round is a ridiculous and over compressed workload for all the support crew and specialists involved in helping the riders get their fix on the track......I dont think enough consideration is given to that factor and that most of these people are unpaid and it actually costs them money and downtime to be there. While many may be enthusiastic its easy to see that such a workload will potentially wear thin such enthusiasm. Why not just run as per the other meetings and keep it sensible and in fact more affordable?

In the immortal words of Telecom/Xtra "not our problem....."

Dukie is wanting to do more work, just leave it to KTech Rob ......? :-)

[Robert Taylor]

In the immortal words of Telecom/Xtra "not our problem....."

Dukie is wanting to do more work, just leave it to KTech Rob ......? :-)

What you mean that stuff that is wildly claimed to be ''perfect'' out of the box, doesnt rip tyres and never needs revalving? I feel a Tui moment.............

Anyone who goes along spouting such BS needs a thorough psychiatric assessment. You can only BS for so long....................

[Guido]

Can someone explain to me why one event should be allowed to be more important than the other three, in a four round championship series?

[CHOPPA]

5 races will be great, more races the better.

[gixerracer]

Can someone explain to me why one event should be allowed to be more important than the other three, in a four round championship series?

One is never more important than another one simply has extra races to give us all more point scoring chances considering we only have 4 rounds

[Peter Smith]

One is never more important than another one simply has extra races to give us all more point scoring chances considering we only have 4 rounds

Just don't crash at Manfield. Missing 5 points races would hurt heaps.

[Billy]

Well done MNZ! Sensible number of rounds and races ( 2 per round would have been better though ), less cost and time away for all concerned.


Its just occurred that 5 races for each class at the final round is a ridiculous and over compressed workload for all the support crew and specialists involved in helping the riders get their fix on the track......I dont think enough consideration is given to that factor and that most of these people are unpaid and it actually costs them money and downtime to be there. While many may be enthusiastic its easy to see that such a workload will potentially wear thin such enthusiasm. Why not just run as per the other meetings and keep it sensible and in fact more affordable?

Some like it,Some do not,Unfortunately we are not privileged enough to be able to please everybody,Some don't want to go to HD and some to Invercargill,Some want 2 races per round,But most 3,The interesting thing for me is,Most don't actually know what they want other than to whinge and bleat,Perhaps we should make that a sport,Roadracers would excel at it,The program is now confirmed,Better to spend your time preparing for it,Than whinging about it

[Billy]

One is never more important than another one simply has extra races to give us all more point scoring chances considering we only have 4 rounds

Why would you qualify Goobers pointless drivel post with an answer????? Its nothing more than a troll,Obviously upset threres no round at HD

[Billy]

Just don't crash at Manfield. Missing 5 points races would hurt heaps.

Or if you crash at an earlier round and miss 3 races,It would give you an opportunity to recover some points,Youve heard the one about glasses being half full or empty.....Aye

[Mental Trousers]

....Most don't actually know what they want other than to whinge and bleat,Perhaps we should make that a sport,Roadracers would excel at it,....

Road racers on KB would excel at it you mean.

[CHOPPA]

Road racers on KB would excel at it you mean.

Na its not isolated to here either!

[jellywrestler]

Or if you crash at an earlier round and miss 3 races,It would give you an opportunity to recover some points,Youve heard the one about glasses being half full or empty.....Aye

if there's any glasses around either half full or half empty I'm in!

[quickbuck]

if there's any glasses around either half full or half empty I'm in!

Yup, and mine is always the fullest one if there is any indecision.....

[RobGassit]

Or if you crash at an earlier round and miss 3 races,It would give you an opportunity to recover some points,Youve heard the one about glasses being half full or empty.....Aye
Hey Billy,, are you coming down for round 4? I've got a pile of half full fibre glasses that need filling.

[Billy]

Hey Billy,, are you coming down for round 4? I've got a pile of half full fibre glasses that need filling.

Yip,Sure am,Half expected to see your team at the last round

[quickbuck]

Yip,Sure am,Half expected to see your team at the last round

You should bring the 250 Production Bike out this time :)

[RobGassit]

Yip,Sure am,Half expected to see your team at the last round

Cool. I've got some wreckage for you and need a 250 belly pan and some sprocket fins. May not race again till summer but plenty of time to fix broken stuff. See you there.

[quickbuck]

..... need a 250 belly pan and some sprocket fins. ..... See you there.
Ditto.....

[Billy]

Cool. I've got some wreckage for you and need a 250 belly pan and some sprocket fins. May not race again till summer but plenty of time to fix broken stuff. See you there.

Yip,

All good,Hows the riders injured wing coming along???

[Billy]

Ditto.....

K talk to you there

[CHOPPA]

Are those new rules like like wire brakes, shark fin and light for club days as well?

[quickbuck]

Are those new rules like like wire brakes, shark fin and light for club days as well?

Not necessarily Choppa. I am getting my bike ready for the summer Slow time....
I can't remember where I saw the ratified rules now.... But there are on the interweb somewhere...

Of course the full version is at www.mnz.co.nz

[CHOPPA]

New rules are out now and in place. My bike sitting in the SI though so just need to know if I need to take a drill down and a shark fin etc. Only reason I asking is im sure someone said those only apply to championships

[Mental Trousers]

The full summary of rule changes can be found here (http://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/rules/summary-of-ratified-rules---24-july-2013.pdf?sfvrsn=2)

Changes applying to everyone, both club and nationals racers

oil filler caps must be lock wired
min 25mm and max 45mm LED tail light if a race meeting is declared wet
$400 fine for running out of fuel


The rules that only apply at the national level

shark fin chain guard
drilled and lock wired brake caliper bolts

[RobGassit]

Yip,

All good,Hows the riders injured wing coming along???

Slow recovery without a plate but everything works.

[Str8 Jacket]

Slow recovery without a plate but everything works.

Stink, she not getting a plate? Are the bones joined yet?

Helen

[steveyb]

Ladies a plate please....

[RobGassit]

Stink, she not getting a plate? Are the bones joined yet?

Helen

Yes she is mending nicely. But some titanium would have sped things up. And her broken finger works too, as she often gestures it to me.:eek5::laugh:

[Dave-]

Basic numbers is the problem:
1) Borrow 50 million at 6.3% interest, with 50 year payback.
2) You'll be needing to find roughly $82000 in loose change per month for the first few years, just to keep up with paying that back
3) Add to that the day to day business costs to run operate the track, (on average staff with vehicles are $100K ea PA)
4) Add maintenance on track and buildings + specialty equipment etc
5) Add to that a profit margin for the owner/investor, at between 7 - 11%
6) Oh and the taxman will be wanting his share too

It all adds up to a very big number, just to cover your arse, and assuming it is impractical to have a track hired out for more than 80% of available days, it makes it even tougher. Plus we wont mention what happens when some knob builds a house nearby and decides he/she doesnt want to hear the track vehicles in the far distance......

Result, - A high risk investment "if" youve borrowed a lot to make it happen.

Only way it works is if the likes of the super rich fund this sort of stuff out of cash in the bank, or governments / councils tip a bunch of support funding into it with no expectation of being paid back.

You could also just build a motorsport park in central otago for shits and gigs.

Highlands for 2015 NZSBK!

[nodrog]

min 25mm and max 45mm flashing LED tail light if a race meeting is declared wet



Rule 22.6.2
Once the meeting has been declared wet, are rear facing red LED light must be fitted and operational. The light must be fitted to the motorcycle and in a position that is visible to any following rider and be of a minimum size of 25mm and maximum of 45mm.

are you making rules up?

[Dave-]

are you making rules up?

I checked with Billy a few weeks ago.

Light does not flash.

[Mental Trousers]

are you making rules up?

Must be

[Billy]

Must be

Nope that was the proposed rule and it was changed at ratification

[SWERVE]

There were various types / sizes on bikes at the HAGD at Ruapuna on Sunday. We tried static and flashing modes to see what was most visable. It seemed that it would be preferable to go towards the larger end of the scale. While a small 25mm light may give of heaps of light at night........ in wet / spray conditions became much less noticeable. Where as the larger lamp was VERY bright in wet but sprayless conditions it was definitely better once the rain got heavier. The smaller lamp was more visable in flash mode........... but the larger was very distracting in flash mode. So there is some feed back........ in IMHO go for 40/45 mm lamp.

[RobGassit]

One of those whip aerials with an orange flag would be the bizzo I reakon...

[steveyb]

One of those whip aerials with an orange flag would be the bizzo I reakon...

Only Chopper (I mean Choppa) can have one of those! (if you are old enough to know what I mean).

[steveyb]

There were various types / sizes on bikes at the HAGD at Ruapuna on Sunday. We tried static and flashing modes to see what was most visable. It seemed that it would be preferable to go towards the larger end of the scale. While a small 25mm light may give of heaps of light at night........ in wet / spray conditions became much less noticeable. Where as the larger lamp was VERY bright in wet but sprayless conditions it was definitely better once the rain got heavier. The smaller lamp was more visable in flash mode........... but the larger was very distracting in flash mode. So there is some feed back........ in IMHO go for 40/45 mm lamp.

Cheers Merv.
I was trying to work out which to use and what mode would be best.

[Robert Taylor]

Its pretty much the same as running a race team Steve ? ....... Just a different scale :-)

Hey Glenn

I hear that in spite of higher track temperatures the other day you are still burning up rear tyres? This in spite of suspension fitted with marketing similar to ''this is the second coming of Christ" and ''youll only need to adjust the clickers.''

We know exactly what the issue is having seen the dyno character of these shocks, and also how to fix it.

[GSVR]

Hey Glenn

I hear that in spite of higher track temperatures the other day you are still burning up rear tyres? This in spite of suspension fitted with marketing similar to ''this is the second coming of Christ" and ''youll only need to adjust the clickers.''

We know exactly what the issue is having seen the dyno character of these shocks, and also how to fix it.

Sounds like good advice to me from someone who should know. Do you think John Key would make a good shop absorber? Just fit some eyelets to his feet and head. What sort of dyno character would he have? Probably a real good one with no memory.

Politics and Shock absorbers .

[Robert Taylor]

Sounds like good advice to me from someone who should know. Do you think John Key would make a good shop absorber? Just fit some eyelets to his feet and head. What sort of dyno character would he have? Probably a real good one with no memory.

Politics and Shock absorbers .

I dont care what dyno character politicians have, I can see that there is a solution to a tyre distress problem.

[Drew]

Wonder if our chair can spill oil on all four tracks?

[Deano]

Wonder if our chair can spill oil on all four tracks?

You'll need some stamps in your log book first eh ?

[Kickaha]

You'll need some stamps in your log book first eh ?

Stop picking on the rookie

[Drew]

You'll need some stamps in your log book first eh ?You gotta stop drinking and posting bro. I've got stamps in my log book from already having raced at Nationals events.


Stop picking on the rookieWe'll see who's gonna be the rookie old man!

[Billy]

You gotta stop drinking and posting bro. I've got stamps in my log book from already having raced at Nationals events.

We'll see who's gonna be the rookie old man!

News flash bro,The new rule states there must 3 entries in the 12 months prior

[Drew]

News flash bro,The new rule states there must 3 entries in the 12 months priorBarry Sheen, and tri series rounds ought to do the trick then aye.:msn-wink:

[Drew]

News flash bro,The new rule states there must 3 entries in the 12 months priorWait, every year?

Who the fuck came up with that rule?

[Kickaha]

Who the fuck came up with that rule?

Probably someone who realised it was long overdue

[Drew]

Probably someone who realised it was long overdue
Don't get me wrong. I fully agree with the idea that we ensure people are actually somewhat qualified to ride their machine. I just don't like the idea of having to do three club rounds every year.

[Mental Trousers]

Don't get me wrong. I fully agree with the idea that we ensure people are actually somewhat qualified to ride their machine. I just don't like the idea of having to do three club rounds every year.

Three test sessions a year?? Doesn't sound like a hardship to me bro.

[Danger Dave]

Don't get me wrong. I fully agree with the idea that we ensure people are actually somewhat qualified to ride their machine. I just don't like the idea of having to do three club rounds every year.

The way i read the rule ( and i'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong) is you must have three events in the log book in the 12 months prior to the event that you are competing in therefore as long as you are competing each season you should be fine as by the time 2013 wanganui comes round (the first national/street race event) you would of already had the racing from the previous season in the log book which falls within the last 12 months from 2012 wanganui, if that makes sense :blink:

[Drew]

The way i read the rule ( and i'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong) is you must have three events in the log book in the 12 months prior to the event that you are competing in therefore as long as you are competing each season you should be fine as by the time 2013 wanganui comes round (the first national/street race event) you would of already had the racing from the previous season in the log book which falls within the last 12 months from 2012 wanganui, if that makes sense :blink:

Oh yeah. Stupid me, didn't think of that.

[Billy]

Wait, every year?

Who the fuck came up with that rule?

Me me me me me...Oh and Me

[jellywrestler]

Barry Sheen, and tri series rounds ought to do the trick then aye.:msn-wink:

it's Sheene ya chimp, would you like to buy a vowel?

[jellywrestler]

Don't get me wrong. I fully agree with the idea that we ensure people are actually somewhat qualified to ride their machine. I just don't like the idea of having to do three club rounds every year.

yeah and i don't like three funerals a year; the asparagus sandwiches and pinto orange juice leave skid marks in my Y-fronts

[Kickaha]

it's Sheen ya chimp

it's Sheene ya chimp

[jellywrestler]

it's Sheene ya chimp

to right. i'm suffering from earthquake stress!

[Deano]

You gotta stop drinking and posting bro. I've got stamps in my log book from already having raced at Nationals events.


Erm.....


News flash bro,The new rule states there must 3 entries in the 12 months prior

BOOM !


Oh yeah. Stupid me, didn't think of that.

Yeah you'll only need to do three club rounds initially. Who's been drinking and posting huh ? ;)

[neil_cb125t]

14 races, so up 4 overall compared to previous format, and a point for getting pole position in qualifying.

Point for Qualifying AWESOME - def a good thing!

[steveyb]

Point for Qualifying AWESOME - def a good thing!

So let's see then.....
14 races in total.
Let's assume that there is time between races to rebuild engines....
That'll be 14 points total for Chappy then.......:bleh:

Oh, yeah, did I tell you Marc Antoine on the IMD250 took two class wins and a 2nd on the weekend?
Yeah boi!!!

Check out the style (Manfeild Aug 2013) courtesy of CDFoto.
287156

[Drew]

Point for Qualifying AWESOME - def a good thing!Qualifying is about the strongest part of my racing. Don't think it's gonna help with our old chair up against the good outfits though.

[Danger Dave]

Qualifying is about the strongest part of my racing. Don't think it's gonna help with our old chair up against the good outfits though.

You can buy my chair if you like :yes:

[RobGassit]

Qualifying is about the strongest part of my racing. Don't think it's gonna help with our old chair up against the good outfits though.

Just lost a bet. Had money on the excuses starting in November.;)

[nodrog]

You can buy my chair if you like :yes:

Are you selling it already?

[Danger Dave]

Are you selling it already?

Yep, i am planing to, I'll still be racing sidecars but have found a different one that i would like and i don't have room for two.

Do you want it? :msn-wink:

[Kickaha]

Yep, i am planing to, I'll still be racing sidecars but have found a different one that i would like

What is it? It'd have to be pretty good to be better than what you bought unless you're going classics

[nodrog]

Do you want it? :msn-wink:

yeah, ill add it to my collection.


What is it? It'd have to be pretty good to be better than what you bought unless you're going classics

he's got a bucket sidecar, pay attention!

[Danger Dave]

What is it? It'd have to be pretty good to be better than what you bought unless you're going classics

Never said it was better just different ;) if i had space i would keep them both :yes:

[Drew]

Just lost a bet. Had money on the excuses starting in November.;)We'll be making no excuses...but some other mother fuckers better start writing theirs!

[Drew]

Never said it was better just different ;) if i had space i would keep them both :yes:If you get rid of your real sidecar to race a fucken bucket, you're DEAD to me big guy!

[Danger Dave]

If you get rid of your real sidecar to race a fucken bucket, you're DEAD to me big guy!

Haha Don't worry i've been talked out of racing buckets (for now), now that the windle is running well and is all painted and looking pretty i thought i would test the waters as there were a few people who have expressed interest in it and who would probably appreciate it a lot more. I'm looking at another modern chair.

[Billy]

Latest update on entries for NZSBK 2014,Round 1

160 Entries overall,120 plus National class entrants including a number of internationals in Superbike,Supersport,250 Production and possibly 125/250 Mono,Including 16 Superbikes,21 Supersport,18 250 Production,ALL classes have enough numbers to make a National championship.

[Bert]

Latest update on entries for NZSBK 2014,Round 1

160 Entries overall,120 plus National class entrants including a number of internationals in Superbike,Supersport,250 Production and possibly 125/250 Mono,Including 16 Superbikes,21 Supersport,18 250 Production,ALL classes have enough numbers to make a National championship.

Choice, well done everyone. Looks like it is going to be a great nationals.

[Robert Taylor]

Latest update on entries for NZSBK 2014,Round 1

160 Entries overall,120 plus National class entrants including a number of internationals in Superbike,Supersport,250 Production and possibly 125/250 Mono,Including 16 Superbikes,21 Supersport,18 250 Production,ALL classes have enough numbers to make a National championship.

Thats great news Billy. What remains to be seen ( and with no prejudice and respect for the work you put in ) it will be interesting to see what numbers there are at the end of it. Running over all the whys and wherefores I havent found much empathy amongst the bill payers ( not always the riders by any means ) for the end of season 4 day meeting at Minefield. The riders may enjoy it ( and perhaps not all ) but I expect its going to test peoples resolve to endure 4 days and at least 2 of those days cutting into a need to go to work and earn a living.

It would be an interesting exercise to see what the ratio of support people is per one rider. I.e immediate people there to help the rider and all of those largely unpaid volunteers that help to run the meeting itself? Many of these people have regular and very neccessary jobs to go to, homes and families. I wonder for how many of these people 4 days is ''a bridge too far''????

I will unreservedly again express my opinion, this should have been a regular 2 day meeting.

[Drew]

There is slightly more track time than a normal series with the long meeting at Manfield, sure. But sorry Dr Bob, the time off is less over the whole series for nearly everyone doing it.

[Robert Taylor]

There is slightly more track time than a normal series with the long meeting at Manfield, sure. But sorry Dr Bob, the time off is less over the whole series for nearly everyone doing it.

That doesnt make it any less ridiculous Drew. That meeting impinges even further into the standard working week and that alone ''is a bridge too far''. As a very generalised comment we as a nation seem to place more importance on sport than on work. Workplace productivity ( or lack thereof ) is an issue in NZ that seriously needs tackling. And sporting bodies in general have not insignificantly contributed to that disgrace.
Like everyone that will read this I enjoy motorcycle racing but it should not impinge ever further into the sanctity and neccessity of standard working weeks.

[Billy]

There is slightly more track time than a normal series with the long meeting at Manfield, sure. But sorry Dr Bob, the time off is less over the whole series for nearly everyone doing it.

Too true Drew,

Less travel for everyone,Less time away from home/work,Less entry fees for the overall series and more racing and points scoring opportunities and yet Dr Bob manages to find the negatives.....Go figure,Be there....Don't be there.

[Robert Taylor]

Too true Drew,

Less travel for everyone,Less time away from home/work,Less entry fees for the overall series and more racing and points scoring opportunities and yet Dr Bob manages to find the negatives.....Go figure,Be there....Don't be there.

Im thinking of the positives created by less disruption, the negatives are very real.

[RobGassit]

Horse has bolted,,,No point closing the barn door now.. It is what it is... Next year will no doubt be different.. If the Suzuki Series is anything to go by,, the action this year will be outragious....and I get a year off from using up all my leave to schlep down to Invers to have my awning wrecked...

[Robert Taylor]

Horse has bolted,,,No point closing the barn door now.. It is what it is... Next year will no doubt be different.. If the Suzuki Series is anything to go by,, the action this year will be outragious....and I get a year off from using up all my leave to schlep down to Invers to have my awning wrecked...

Yes indeed.!When it comes to a charge of finding negatives there were certainly plenty of negatives found when I put forward all of the positive virtues of running a CBR500RR cup. ( Nothing personal against Billy, he is a great guy )

Also as someone in this sport who is very well respected just said to me ''non business owners just dont get it''. Without the goodwill and huge amounts of money many businessmen have put into this sport over the years it would be in a very sad state. Frankly, too much just gets taken for granted and I have personally evidenced many people being brazenly ripped off over the years, including main benefactors to the sport.

[budda]

Without the goodwill and huge amounts of money many businessmen have put into this sport over the years it would be in a very sad state. Frankly, too much just gets taken for granted and I have personally evidenced many people being brazenly ripped off over the years, including main benefactors to the sport.

Now THAT I can agree with ....... and sadly the "its all about MEEEEEEE" generation hasn't slowed down the charge either.

For an observer with only one (Swedish) eye, softly focussed due to Merlot poisoning, you do manage to spot the odd fact, eh .........

[Robert Taylor]

Now THAT I can agree with ....... and sadly the "its all about MEEEEEEE" generation hasn't slowed down the charge either.

For an observer with only one (Swedish) eye, softly focussed due to Merlot poisoning, you do manage to spot the odd fact, eh .........

I just hate seeing people shafted or people being undermined by those with larger than life bluster and fantastic but highly fictititious stories. Such people normally in the end get exposed for what they really are

[Drew]

I'm a business owner. Whatu you cunts on about?

[Gremlin]

I'm a business owner. Whatu you cunts on about?
I think you mean you mind your own business? ;)

[RobGassit]

I just hate seeing people shafted or people being undermined by those with larger than life bluster and fantastic but highly fictititious stories. Such people normally in the end get exposed for what they really are

The most infamous of those spent all weekend farting, being suggestive to the ladies and yapping about shit till 4 am.. Didn't make many friends from what I could see. Sorry I missed you getting shafted... Pics or it didn't happen..:rolleyes:

[wharfy]

Like everyone that will read this I enjoy motorcycle racing but it should not impinge ever further into the sanctity and neccessity of standard working weeks.

Sadly the sanctity of the working week has been well screwed by the "market economy" with many people forced to work at the weekend with little compensation and have their days off during the week.
I don't think NZ worker productivity is a disgrace. We don't enjoy a very high ranking on the "league table" (28th GDP per hour worked) but that is to some extent due to the "low value" exports e.g a logging crew would have to work VERY hard for a LONG time to fill a ship with raw logs. (which may be why so many of them die on the job). A modern plywood mill could turn those into a ship load of ply that would earn MUCH more. It would be nice if Ohlins opened a factory here - (a nice clean safe one)

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that Kiwi's in foreign countries enjoy a good reputation as "good workers" :)

[steveyb]

Sadly the sanctity of the working week has been well screwed by the "market economy" with many people forced to work at the weekend with little compensation and have their days off during the week.
I don't think NZ worker productivity is a disgrace. We don't enjoy a very high ranking on the "league table" (28th GDP per hour worked) but that is to some extent due to the "low value" exports e.g a logging crew would have to work VERY hard for a LONG time to fill a ship with raw logs. (which may be why so many of them die on the job). A modern plywood mill could turn those into a ship load of ply that would earn MUCH more. It would be nice if Ohlins opened a factory here - (a nice clean safe one)

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that Kiwi's in foreign countries enjoy a good reputation as "good workers" :)

At the risk of turning a sporting forum into one with a political agenda, Wharfy is well right. In general terms the perceived productivity per capita of NZ is of course in part due to the labour units (umm, that would be the workers) themselves, but in much larger part it is due to the low value labour those workers are expected to perform and the absolute disgrace that is the investment in plant and capability by large sectors of the business community.

By and large in NZ, businesses believe (and I am sorry to say, even Robert has fallen foul of this) that the only route to increased productivity is through more hours worked per labour unit, rather than more widgets or product produced per labour unit via investment in new, better, faster, more efficient equipment, or indeed hiring more labour units, or more importantly, the development of higher value widgets or products or services through research and development within their own businesses or sectors.

NZ business has a terrible reputation for believing that R&D is something that is done by universities and paid for by the government that can then be had for free by "those lucky buggers in those flash companies over there, somewhere". This narrow viewpoint can be patently (excuse the pun) dismissed by taking even the most cursory look at many of NZs most successful tech-based busineses such as F&P, F&P Healthcare, Gallagher, Tait, Fonterra, BSL and many many others who invest significant amounts in developing more $ per hour worked, rather than more hours worked per $. They former is a route to the top table, the latter is a route to the 3rd world.

Ahh, sometimes I dispair at the attitudes towards those that actually earn the $ by those who suggest they control the $.

[wharfy]

At the risk of turning a sporting forum into one with a political agenda.

Everything is political - especially motorcycling!! Of course I turn every discussion into a political one...
Like the hippies say "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem..."
The problem is the current economic model is based on unlimited growth. Most of the major players appear to have failed to grasp that we live in a closed system that has developed some amazing features that support life "as we know it, Jim" and we are trying our hardest to destroy that balance.

No "simple" answer but we could start with:

Making women equal in all aspects of life. - give them control of their bodies (reproduction completely their choice - would go a long way to solving dire population predictions - we are already past the sustainable point) and enable them to fully participate in work,play and politics - we are restricting half the worlds population from helping solve the problems we have !! (and of course the colour of their skin should be irrelevant).

Adopt "cradle to cradle" technology - everything manufactured has to go back to the manufacturer at the end of its life to be "reborn" instead of shipping it to 3rd world countries to poison the workers who extract the good bits and poison the country with the shit left over.

Develop a more "collegial" society where people care about their fellows and not just aspire to become one of the 1% who have all the goodies (I remember when 1%' ers were bad ass bikers :) )

As the big sign on the garden nursery entering Taihape says "There is no planet B"

I'm not a hippy but I'm trying to help a bit with items one and three and will support item two where available (oh and listen to Bob Dylan and smoke a bit on occasion...)
" Three days man..."

[Robert Taylor]

Sadly the sanctity of the working week has been well screwed by the "market economy" with many people forced to work at the weekend with little compensation and have their days off during the week.
I don't think NZ worker productivity is a disgrace. We don't enjoy a very high ranking on the "league table" (28th GDP per hour worked) but that is to some extent due to the "low value" exports e.g a logging crew would have to work VERY hard for a LONG time to fill a ship with raw logs. (which may be why so many of them die on the job). A modern plywood mill could turn those into a ship load of ply that would earn MUCH more. It would be nice if Ohlins opened a factory here - (a nice clean safe one)

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that Kiwi's in foreign countries enjoy a good reputation as "good workers" :)

I do largely agree with your sentiments about the market economy, where we have to try and compete with third world labour rates etc. We are all in part guilty though because we like paying the minimum possible for goods

As a small employer I am always the first at work and always the last away. 7 days per week for the last few weeks and plenty more to come. This is a not untypical situation and if I treated my workers like myself Id smartly be marched off to an employment tribunal . Its certainly not all ''beer and skittles'' and Im not becoming wealthy because theres always some American prick offshore to ''compete'' with who is willing to dump product at as little as 2-3% margin. ( Yes you read that right )

Adding value to our exports and levelling the playing field by taxing EVERYTHING that comes across the border I can agree with. Personally I am instinctively a tory but I believe in a sense of fairness. Businesses provide employment and the economy must place business endeavour ahead of sporting endeavour, the point I was eluding to

And yes I agree about how Kiwi workers are seen in other countries. Experience of that myself, turned up in a recessioned UK in 1981 with 3.5 million unemployed and got the job I wanted straight away because I was prepared to work hard. The lazy arse poms I was working with had a habit of not turning up and when they were present their speed of work was as slow as a wet week. The reality is though here in the homeland we do have plenty of ''drones'' as well.

[Robert Taylor]

At the risk of turning a sporting forum into one with a political agenda, Wharfy is well right. In general terms the perceived productivity per capita of NZ is of course in part due to the labour units (umm, that would be the workers) themselves, but in much larger part it is due to the low value labour those workers are expected to perform and the absolute disgrace that is the investment in plant and capability by large sectors of the business community.

By and large in NZ, businesses believe (and I am sorry to say, even Robert has fallen foul of this) that the only route to increased productivity is through more hours worked per labour unit, rather than more widgets or product produced per labour unit via investment in new, better, faster, more efficient equipment, or indeed hiring more labour units, or more importantly, the development of higher value widgets or products or services through research and development within their own businesses or sectors.

NZ business has a terrible reputation for believing that R&D is something that is done by universities and paid for by the government that can then be had for free by "those lucky buggers in those flash companies over there, somewhere". This narrow viewpoint can be patently (excuse the pun) dismissed by taking even the most cursory look at many of NZs most successful tech-based busineses such as F&P, F&P Healthcare, Gallagher, Tait, Fonterra, BSL and many many others who invest significant amounts in developing more $ per hour worked, rather than more hours worked per $. They former is a route to the top table, the latter is a route to the 3rd world.

Ahh, sometimes I dispair at the attitudes towards those that actually earn the $ by those who suggest they control the $.

Very difficult to disagree with much of what you have said Steve!

[Robert Taylor]

Everything is political - especially motorcycling!! Of course I turn every discussion into a political one...
Like the hippies say "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem..."
The problem is the current economic model is based on unlimited growth. Most of the major players appear to have failed to grasp that we live in a closed system that has developed some amazing features that support life "as we know it, Jim" and we are trying our hardest to destroy that balance.

No "simple" answer but we could start with:

Making women equal in all aspects of life. - give them control of their bodies (reproduction completely their choice - would go a long way to solving dire population predictions - we are already past the sustainable point) and enable them to fully participate in work,play and politics - we are restricting half the worlds population from helping solve the problems we have !! (and of course the colour of their skin should be irrelevant).

Adopt "cradle to cradle" technology - everything manufactured has to go back to the manufacturer at the end of its life to be "reborn" instead of shipping it to 3rd world countries to poison the workers who extract the good bits and poison the country with the shit left over.

Develop a more "collegial" society where people care about their fellows and not just aspire to become one of the 1% who have all the goodies (I remember when 1%' ers were bad ass bikers :) )

As the big sign on the garden nursery entering Taihape says "There is no planet B"

I'm not a hippy but I'm trying to help a bit with items one and three and will support item two where available (oh and listen to Bob Dylan and smoke a bit on occasion...)
" Three days man..."

As long as women get there on merit ( same for ethnicity ) and not by imposed quota such as espoused by those Labour party morons. And The National party are not free of criticism given how theyve assisted a minority ethnic grouping in wielding a disproportionate amount of power, on the pretext of some dodgy never ending treaty settlements. Now youve made me both angry and sentimental. Angry about that butch bitch named Helen and sentimental about Maggie!!!

Maggie would have sorted out appropriate road race dates and also told people to get back to work.

[wharfy]

Angry about that butch bitch named Helen

That sort of comment is woefull and is exactly why misogynisyts need to be educated. I presume you are reffering to:

Helen Elizabeth Clark, ONZ SSI (born 26 February 1950) is a New Zealand politician, who was the 37th Prime Minister of New Zealand serving three consecutive terms from 1999 to 2008. She was the first woman elected, at a general election, as the Prime Minister, and was the fifth longest serving person to hold that office.[4] She has been Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), the third-highest UN position, since 2009

Helen Clark is a savy politician, VERY intelligent. Resorting to calling her names is, well... childish and is the very reason that "quotas" are required. Half the population (about 50%) are women, yet they are under represented in all of the top positions in all spheres of influence so unless you truely beleive that somehow men are naturally superior to women there is obviously something wrong with the system (women make up about 30% in NZ Parliment). Go to an IT "what am I worth" web salary guide and the first question asked - what is your gender ? Not much heavy lifting required in that job...

:)

[Robert Taylor]

That sort of comment is woefull and is exactly why misogynisyts need to be educated. I presume you are reffering to:

Helen Elizabeth Clark, ONZ SSI (born 26 February 1950) is a New Zealand politician, who was the 37th Prime Minister of New Zealand serving three consecutive terms from 1999 to 2008. She was the first woman elected, at a general election, as the Prime Minister, and was the fifth longest serving person to hold that office.[4] She has been Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), the third-highest UN position, since 2009

Helen Clark is a savy politician, VERY intelligent. Resorting to calling her names is, well... childish and is the very reason that "quotas" are required. Half the population (about 50%) are women, yet they are under represented in all of the top positions in all spheres of influence so unless you truely beleive that somehow men are naturally superior to women there is obviously something wrong with the system (women make up about 30% in NZ Parliment). Go to an IT "what am I worth" web salary guide and the first question asked - what is your gender ? Not much heavy lifting required in that job...

:)

Intelligent yes, butch yes, bitch yes. Undeniable.Misguided pacifist yes, look what she callously did to our Air Force. Given that we are a democracy I wholeheartedly ( and if you like childishly ) reserve the right to make less than endearing comments about ( in my opinion ) the worst woman priminister we have had and one of the worst irrespective of gender. The Laborious party has also dished up its share of very decent people E.g Geoffrey Palmer, Mike Moore etc

She is obviously comfortable with her commo mates in the UN and is in a position to further spread her poison.

As far as gender percentage that will and steadily has been ''correcting'' itself over time and shouldnt be artificially manipulated by meddling left wing politicians.

Maggie was for a long time the only woman in her cabinet, I dont think that fact bothered her in the slightest. She got on with the job.

Just as Billy has , not to everyones satisfaction. Nothing personal despite his decisions or your opinions Wharfy, some of which I concur with

[Drew]

:facepalm: That's this thread fucked.

[Robert Taylor]

:facepalm: That's this thread fucked.

Your incisive eloquence and brevity is commendable Drew

[jellywrestler]

Your incisive eloquence and brevity is commendable Drew

remind me never to play scrabble with you Robert....

[wharfy]

:facepalm: That's this thread fucked.

It's just starting to get interesting. :)

[Mental Trousers]

:facepalm: That's this thread fucked.



:facepalm: That's this thread fucked.

Your incisive eloquence and brevity is commendable Drew


It's just starting to get interesting. :)

Drew's right, the thread is fucked now. The IQ necessary to participate in this line of conversation is well above the KB average.

[RobGassit]

Jesus I hope I don't get stuck behind these two while on the way to the Nats. :facepalm:

[steveyb]

As long as women get there on merit ( same for ethnicity ) and not by imposed quota such as espoused by those Labour party morons. And The National party are not free of criticism given how theyve assisted a minority ethnic grouping in wielding a disproportionate amount of power, on the pretext of some dodgy never ending treaty settlements. Now youve made me both angry and sentimental. Angry about that butch bitch named Helen and sentimental about Maggie!!!

Maggie would have sorted out appropriate road race dates and also told people to get back to work.

Aye there's the rub.
Of course any person would arrive at an appropriate position to suit their ambitions and skills, IF prejudice against them did not exist. These prejudices exist in all of us to some degree or another, but the issue is when the prejudices become institutionalised over long periods due to pressures of a religious, peer, company, creed, gender etc nature. It is these prejudices that have lead to the marginalisation of whole cohorts of peoples in all different societies throughout time.
In our own society we see prejudice towards those with skin other than white and language other than English, those without penises (or is that penii?), towards those who ride Suzukis (although that is totally fair enough in my book), towards those in wheelchairs and on it goes.
An individual may tell themselves that they do not hold to these prejudices, or at least would not let them manifest in any way, but others are true enough to themselves to wear such prejudice on their sleeves.
Why else would it be that women hold so few top level positions in NZ business?
Why would it be that Maori are over represented in crime and incarceration statistics?
Why would it be that new (non-white) immigrants tend to ghettoise themselves?
Why would it be that Suzuki riders are required to resist those funny looks and sniggers?

In large part many of the reasons for this are the results of long term, deep seated prejudice from one sector of a society towards another. There is no research or evidence that suggests that women cannot perform as effectively as men in business management, but they are often excluded from the opportunity. There is no evidence that suggests that brown skinned people are best utilised in manual, low skilled, poorly paid employ than anyone else, except that society tells them in a myriad of ways, that that is where the society wants them and so that is where they should go.

The effects of these prejudices are incremental and insidious and the routes to change are also incremental and need to be insidious (if you are one that holds prejudice) in order to effect change.

However, the current Anglo-saxon capitalist establishment holds strongly to the laws, writ and unwrit, that suggest an economy and par infra, a society (although of course they are not the same thing) needs to have the enormous disparity between those that have and those that have not, those that fit and those that do not, those that look the same as the majority and those that do not. A more supportive and distributive society can still operate on capitalist philosophy, individuals can still become wealthy, it is demonstrated in other countries, but only if concerted effort is made and only when personal guards are broken down and individuals decide that others really are worthy and not simply to be ignored or worse, derided.

However, I wonder how well those other countries (one from whence our favourite springing stuff comes springs to mind. you see what I did there?) would manage if they had the same inhomogeneity of society that we do. With changes in Europe that are occurring (just as they did millennia ago), I think this harmony in their society will come under significant challenge in the coming years.

I'd better get on with writing my conference paper, it is much less taxing than this.....

[codgyoleracer]

Aye there's the rub.
Of course any person would arrive at an appropriate position to suit their ambitions and skills, IF prejudice against them did not exist. These prejudices exist in all of us to some degree or another, but the issue is when the prejudices become institutionalised over long periods due to pressures of a religious, peer, company, creed, gender etc nature. It is these prejudices that have lead to the marginalisation of whole cohorts of peoples in all different societies throughout time.
In our own society we see prejudice towards those with skin other than white and language other than English, those without penises (or is that penii?), towards those who ride Suzukis (although that is totally fair enough in my book), towards those in wheelchairs and on it goes.
An individual may tell themselves that they do not hold to these prejudices, or at least would not let them manifest in any way, but others are true enough to themselves to wear such prejudice on their sleeves.
Why else would it be that women hold so few top level positions in NZ business?
Why would it be that Maori are over represented in crime and incarceration statistics?
Why would it be that new (non-white) immigrants tend to ghettoise themselves?
Why would it be that Suzuki riders are required to resist those funny looks and sniggers?

In large part many of the reasons for this are the results of long term, deep seated prejudice from one sector of a society towards another. There is no research or evidence that suggests that women cannot perform as effectively as men in business management, but they are often excluded from the opportunity. There is no evidence that suggests that brown skinned people are best utilised in manual, low skilled, poorly paid employ than anyone else, except that society tells them in a myriad of ways, that that is where the society wants them and so that is where they should go.

The effects of these prejudices are incremental and insidious and the routes to change are also incremental and need to be insidious (if you are one that holds prejudice) in order to effect change.

However, the current Anglo-saxon capitalist establishment holds strongly to the laws, writ and unwrit, that suggest an economy and par infra, a society (although of course they are not the same thing) needs to have the enormous disparity between those that have and those that have not, those that fit and those that do not, those that look the same as the majority and those that do not. A more supportive and distributive society can still operate on capitalist philosophy, individuals can still become wealthy, it is demonstrated in other countries, but only if concerted effort is made and only when personal guards are broken down and individuals decide that others really are worthy and not simply to be ignored or worse, derided.

However, I wonder how well those other countries (one from whence our favourite springing stuff comes springs to mind. you see what I did there?) would manage if they had the same inhomogeneity of society that we do. With changes in Europe that are occurring (just as they did millennia ago), I think this harmony in their society will come under significant challenge in the coming years.

I'd better get on with writing my conference paper, it is much less taxing than this.....


Now your just showing off............

[wharfy]

Now your just showing off............

Yeah but he is right on the money...

All of that helps feed the idea that it is OK for men to abuse women -

How else do young men in NZ get to think it is OK to get young girls drunk and rape them ?
How else do radio dicks/jocks whatever get to think defending those guy's is OK ?
How else does a society accept it is OK for (on average) 14 women a year to be killed by their partner or ex-partner ?
How else does a society think it is OK for the Gov. to give $millions to already wealthy Hollywood firms while women's refuge has to beg on the streets ?



Once again as the hippies say "if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem.."

http://whiteribbon.org.nz/

[nodrog]

how come this thread hasn't made it to PD yet?

[Deano]

how come this thread hasn't made it to PD yet?

It's gone over the mods head. And a distinct lack of personal abuse ! Come on peeps, lift your game.

[nodrog]

It's gone over the mods head. And a distinct lack of personal abuse ! Come on peeps, lift your game.

We have gone from racing Motorcycles, to bashing and raping drunk chicks. Fuck the nationals are going to be awesome this year!

[nodrog]

Do we have to supply our own women to bash, or are they included in the MNZ licence fee increase?

[wharfy]

We have gone from racing Motorcycles, to bashing and raping drunk chicks. Fuck the nationals are going to be awesome this year!

Thats exactly the sort of comment that shows that you just DON'T GET IT Rape jokes are not OK, taking the piss out of assaulting women is NOT OK - You are part of the problem.

[RobGassit]

Ffs!.................

[Robert Taylor]

Aye there's the rub.
Of course any person would arrive at an appropriate position to suit their ambitions and skills, IF prejudice against them did not exist. These prejudices exist in all of us to some degree or another, but the issue is when the prejudices become institutionalised over long periods due to pressures of a religious, peer, company, creed, gender etc nature. It is these prejudices that have lead to the marginalisation of whole cohorts of peoples in all different societies throughout time.
In our own society we see prejudice towards those with skin other than white and language other than English, those without penises (or is that penii?), towards those who ride Suzukis (although that is totally fair enough in my book), towards those in wheelchairs and on it goes.
An individual may tell themselves that they do not hold to these prejudices, or at least would not let them manifest in any way, but others are true enough to themselves to wear such prejudice on their sleeves.
Why else would it be that women hold so few top level positions in NZ business?
Why would it be that Maori are over represented in crime and incarceration statistics?
Why would it be that new (non-white) immigrants tend to ghettoise themselves?
Why would it be that Suzuki riders are required to resist those funny looks and sniggers?

In large part many of the reasons for this are the results of long term, deep seated prejudice from one sector of a society towards another. There is no research or evidence that suggests that women cannot perform as effectively as men in business management, but they are often excluded from the opportunity. There is no evidence that suggests that brown skinned people are best utilised in manual, low skilled, poorly paid employ than anyone else, except that society tells them in a myriad of ways, that that is where the society wants them and so that is where they should go.

The effects of these prejudices are incremental and insidious and the routes to change are also incremental and need to be insidious (if you are one that holds prejudice) in order to effect change.

However, the current Anglo-saxon capitalist establishment holds strongly to the laws, writ and unwrit, that suggest an economy and par infra, a society (although of course they are not the same thing) needs to have the enormous disparity between those that have and those that have not, those that fit and those that do not, those that look the same as the majority and those that do not. A more supportive and distributive society can still operate on capitalist philosophy, individuals can still become wealthy, it is demonstrated in other countries, but only if concerted effort is made and only when personal guards are broken down and individuals decide that others really are worthy and not simply to be ignored or worse, derided.

However, I wonder how well those other countries (one from whence our favourite springing stuff comes springs to mind. you see what I did there?) would manage if they had the same inhomogeneity of society that we do. With changes in Europe that are occurring (just as they did millennia ago), I think this harmony in their society will come under significant challenge in the coming years.

I'd better get on with writing my conference paper, it is much less taxing than this.....

As a WASP ( white anglo saxon protestant ) of male gender and tory preferences I will sum it up in one sentence for you.

Helen Clark single handedly wrecked the chances of women for many years to come as many of us never want a close rerun of her ever again.



It is debatable that given she shaves twice a day that she is in fact a she....

But its not women ( or Billys ridiculous 4 day meeting ) that we have to fear most. Its this whole essentially racist Maori soverignty thing and all the fatcat lawyers feeding off it. Im ashamed to say that the National party should have stuck firmly to Don Brash's decree of getting rid of all racist based seats in parliament

[roogazza]

Now your just showing off............
I hope they don't find out I was a Viking in a past life.

[RobGassit]

As a WASP ( white anglo saxon protestant ) of male gender and tory preferences I will sum it up in one sentence for you.

Helen Clark single handedly wrecked the chances of women for many years to come as many of us never want a close rerun of her ever again.



It is debatable that given she shaves twice a day that she is in fact a she....

But its not women ( or Billys ridiculous 4 day meeting ) that we have to fear most. Its this whole essentially racist Maori soverignty thing and all the fatcat lawyers feeding off it. Im ashamed to say that the National party should have stuck firmly to Don Brash's decree of getting rid of all racist based seats in parliament

Clever how you worked Billy and the thread topic into that.

[Billy]

Clever how you worked Billy and the thread topic into that.

Not that clever though Rob,He hasn't yet worked out that his selfserving opinion doesn't come into the equation when we are organising the sport.

[nodrog]

Thats exactly the sort of comment that shows that you just DON'T GET IT Rape jokes are not OK, taking the piss out of assaulting women is NOT OK - You are part of the problem.

Calm down, lets not turn this rape into a murder.

[Robert Taylor]

Not that clever though Rob,He hasn't yet worked out that his selfserving opinion doesn't come into the equation when we are organising the sport.

Thats a bit rough Billy, I was trying to in the smallest possible way keep the thread on topic. I reject your charge of being self serving. I was speaking on behalf of all the employers, wives and families who are widows to this national disease of sports leisure activities encroaching further into working weeks. Think of the loss of productivity.

[RobGassit]

Not that clever though Rob,He hasn't yet worked out that his selfserving opinion doesn't come into the equation when we are organising the sport.

By selfserving,,,, do you mean he is touching himself?

[Kickaha]

Fuck the nationals are going to be awesome this year!

How the fuck will you ever know, you're not even doing them

You should come down and be my bitch at SI rounds, you be used to it from being Tina's

[wharfy]

Calm down, lets not turn this rape into a murder.

Sadly thats how a lot of them end...

[nodrog]

How the fuck will you ever know, you're not even doing them

You should come down and be my bitch at SI rounds, you be used to it from being Tina's

I don't have a sidecar that is eligible.

haven't you got Kai to hold your ball bag?

[Kickaha]

I don't have a sidecar that is eligible.

haven't you got Kai to hold your ball bag?

Agip bike is up for grabs, Kai would probably let you ride it without sucking his cock

Kai doesn't have big enough hands or time as he is now racing

[wharfy]

As a WASP ( white anglo saxon protestant ) of male gender and tory preferences I will sum it up in one sentence for you.

Helen Clark single handedly wrecked the chances of women for many years to come as many of us never want a close rerun of her ever again.



It is debatable that given she shaves twice a day that she is in fact a she....

But its not women ( or Billys ridiculous 4 day meeting ) that we have to fear most. Its this whole essentially racist Maori soverignty thing and all the fatcat lawyers feeding off it. Im ashamed to say that the National party should have stuck firmly to Don Brash's decree of getting rid of all racist based seats in parliament

I'd be interested in debating the policies of Labour/Green/National and the merits (or not) of various politicians but you can't seem to get past your issues with women who don't fit your view of how women should look and act.

You should also probably do a bit of research into the Treaty and it's history - Not just accept the "sound bites" from the essentially racist media and government.
It may not be important to you but it sure is to me - I am a second generation New Zealander (my grandparents are from Durham and Fife respectivly) I no longer have the option of living in the UK (nor want to really) New Zealand is my home - BUT I am only entitled to live here by virtue of the Treaty of Waitangi and am constantly embarrased that the crown has failed to live up to it's side of it, I thought you would have some sympathy for people who have been "screwed over" despite having a legal contract (and a moral "right") to fair treatment .
The Treaty gives me a (and my decendants) a "Turangawaewae" - "A place to Stand"

Get hold of a copy of "The Penguin History of New Zealand" by Michael King - Very readable and be just the thing for the next time you are stuck in a motel at some race meeting.

The "treaty Industry" is a term invented by people who have no understanding (and no willingness to learn) about the issues that the indigenus people of New Zealand (or any other colonised country) have had to face and are still facing - See the documentry "Operation 8" about the raid by the anti-terror police in the Urewera
I'm not expecting to change your mind about Politics - but debaing with people who already agree with you is no fun :) However I do hope I can get you to see some of the injustice perpetrated on Women and Maori in New Zealand and not be to quick to judge people who do not fit with your world view.

[SWERVE]

I have been reading this thread.............. even though some of the words are beyond me and you are both WAY above my knowledge of politics or the written word:(
But as I am 1/2 way thorough a bottle of Sav......... and feeling brave I will comment:lol:
Maggie was the best thing that has happened to UK since Enoch Powell :headbang:
Helen Clark is a man:rolleyes:
Wharfy I commend you on your defence of women............. totally agree:first:
But as for indigionous people (prob spelt it wrong):weep: This phrase comes to mind " help those who help themselves":brick: lets be grateful we don't live in SA:weep:
As you were gentlemen.................

[steveyb]

Wharfy I commend you on your defence of women............. totally agree:first:
But as for indigionous people (prob spelt it wrong):weep: This phrase comes to mind " help those who help themselves":brick: lets be grateful we don't live in SA:weep:


As Wharfy quite clearly pointed out, those that the phrase above seem to be aimed at are doing just that.
As he also points out, debating with those that agree with you is no fun. Debating with those that know little about, nor care to find out about, the actual issue that is being debated is depressing.

When the Crown of the time in NZ decided to enter into a legal contract with the occupiers of the land at the time (1840's) both sides did so with an understanding (admittedly maybe not the clearest that could have ever been) of what the contract entailed. They did so for many reasons, but the main ones being that they recognised the value in partnership with the occupiers of the time and the folly that would be conquest, having just subdued peoples in other lands and expensive campaigns in Europe. Indeed, at the time of claiming Aotearoa/NZ the British did not actually want to, they were over stretched, and only did so to stop the French doing so.

Anyway, the Treaty meant, among other things, that lands could only be divested of and acquired through the Crown with the consent of both parties. When the Crown decided to acquire lands without the consent of the occupying party (i.e. confiscation), they were effectively breaking their own law. But of course, that didn't matter because they were the Crown and could do what they wanted, or so they believed.

Back to today, those peoples whose lands were confiscated in this manner are now applying to the Crown for redress, using the process that the Crown has established, because the Crown recognises the errors that were made in the past and seeks to make this redress.
So, these peoples actually are helping themselves out by using a politically neutral legal channel to seek redress, rather than a politically fueled process that one might see in other countries, lets say, oh, like Syria.

Of course, if a process is established, there will always be those who seek vexatious litigation; black, white, pink, purple whoever; those people will always exist, so the process must never be judged on the basis of those cases. However, the vast majority of cases bought before this process are being demonstrated to be just and fair and are leading to an improvement in the well being of those whose grievances are heard and redressed. It must be recognised also I believe, that Maori have a different philosophical and emotional relationship with the land than do Anglo-Saxons and others. This informs their behaviours towards the land quite differently than others. Make no mistake that they seek to take economic advantage from the land, but the understanding that it is not the commodity that the Anglo-saxon believes it to be makes the relationship quite different. For those that don't now I am Maori/English (my mum is a 2nd gen Kiwi) and I don't own any property at all. I think that I have this odd feeling towards the land that I think the kaumatua talk about, that it owns you, not the other way around.

On the other topics: invoking personal invective and tirades against a subjects gender, sex, personal grooming habits brings nothing to a debate on any subject other than to demean the debate and the debater.

I think that it is demonstrably so that one Mr Robert Muldoon, a doyen of Tory politics in NZ, did significantly more damage during his terms to the economy and social fabric of this country than any other politician except perhaps Rodger Douglas. But to invoke that this is so because he was an ugly, fat, bully with a strong little-man syndrome and thought nothing better of bullying his opponents into submission (the only person able to stand up to him was David Lange, now there is chalk and cheese!) bring nothing to the debate and has no place in it.

Equally so, one might assert that dear old Maggie (RIP) was nothing more than a gold digger trying desperately to escape the shackles of her Grantham past and that once she had sneered her millionaire husband, she could with gay abandon forget the working classes from whence she came and set about in comfort, dismantling the structures that kept the UK strong. Yes, there is no doubt that tough decisions needed to be taken, but from a position of financial comfort due in no part to her own labours, she lacked the slightest amount of humanity in taking those decisions and that the same position could have been arrived at with a more humanist approach.

Now, how does that help any debate about gender roles? The former assertion does not, that latter assertion does. One gender biased, one gender neutral.

It requires some mental effort to step aside from ones prejudices to make informed and rational debate.


SHIT, is that the time?? Better get moving......

[Robert Taylor]

I'd be interested in debating the policies of Labour/Green/National and the merits (or not) of various politicians but you can't seem to get past your issues with women who don't fit your view of how women should look and act.

You should also probably do a bit of research into the Treaty and it's history - Not just accept the "sound bites" from the essentially racist media and government.
It may not be important to you but it sure is to me - I am a second generation New Zealander (my grandparents are from Durham and Fife respectivly) I no longer have the option of living in the UK (nor want to really) New Zealand is my home - BUT I am only entitled to live here by virtue of the Treaty of Waitangi and am constantly embarrased that the crown has failed to live up to it's side of it, I thought you would have some sympathy for people who have been "screwed over" despite having a legal contract (and a moral "right") to fair treatment .
The Treaty gives me a (and my decendants) a "Turangawaewae" - "A place to Stand"

Get hold of a copy of "The Penguin History of New Zealand" by Michael King - Very readable and be just the thing for the next time you are stuck in a motel at some race meeting.

The "treaty Industry" is a term invented by people who have no understanding (and no willingness to learn) about the issues that the indigenus people of New Zealand (or any other colonised country) have had to face and are still facing - See the documentry "Operation 8" about the raid by the anti-terror police in the Urewera
I'm not expecting to change your mind about Politics - but debaing with people who already agree with you is no fun :) However I do hope I can get you to see some of the injustice perpetrated on Women and Maori in New Zealand and not be to quick to judge people who do not fit with your world view.

I also have set views of how men should look and act Wharfy! There is also no place for racism in NZ, from any quarter.

My view of the Greens is not so far from reality, they want cradle to the grave welfare but at the same time want to shut down all means of funding it. And Russell Norman is a prize idiot. Heaven help us if a Labour / Green coaltion wins power. Swerve is right, Maggie and Enoch are all time greats as far as politicians are concerned, they had courage and conviction. John Key could do with a bit of that by haviing the courage to enact real change rather than ''steady as she goes''.

But back to what this thread was about, NZSBK dates 2014. With all due respect to the otherwise stellar work that Billy is doing I steadfastly maintain that he crossed a line that should never have been crossed by extending the Manfield round into a working week

[Robert Taylor]

As Wharfy quite clearly pointed out, those that the phrase above seem to be aimed at are doing just that.
As he also points out, debating with those that agree with you is no fun. Debating with those that know little about, nor care to find out about, the actual issue that is being debated is depressing.

When the Crown of the time in NZ decided to enter into a legal contract with the occupiers of the land at the time (1840's) both sides did so with an understanding (admittedly maybe not the clearest that could have ever been) of what the contract entailed. They did so for many reasons, but the main ones being that they recognised the value in partnership with the occupiers of the time and the folly that would be conquest, having just subdued peoples in other lands and expensive campaigns in Europe. Indeed, at the time of claiming Aotearoa/NZ the British did not actually want to, they were over stretched, and only did so to stop the French doing so.

Anyway, the Treaty meant, among other things, that lands could only be divested of and acquired through the Crown with the consent of both parties. When the Crown decided to acquire lands without the consent of the occupying party (i.e. confiscation), they were effectively breaking their own law. But of course, that didn't matter because they were the Crown and could do what they wanted, or so they believed.

Back to today, those peoples whose lands were confiscated in this manner are now applying to the Crown for redress, using the process that the Crown has established, because the Crown recognises the errors that were made in the past and seeks to make this redress.
So, these peoples actually are helping themselves out by using a politically neutral legal channel to seek redress, rather than a politically fueled process that one might see in other countries, lets say, oh, like Syria.

Of course, if a process is established, there will always be those who seek vexatious litigation; black, white, pink, purple whoever; those people will always exist, so the process must never be judged on the basis of those cases. However, the vast majority of cases bought before this process are being demonstrated to be just and fair and are leading to an improvement in the well being of those whose grievances are heard and redressed. It must be recognised also I believe, that Maori have a different philosophical and emotional relationship with the land than do Anglo-Saxons and others. This informs their behaviours towards the land quite differently than others. Make no mistake that they seek to take economic advantage from the land, but the understanding that it is not the commodity that the Anglo-saxon believes it to be makes the relationship quite different. For those that don't now I am Maori/English (my mum is a 2nd gen Kiwi) and I don't own any property at all. I think that I have this odd feeling towards the land that I think the kaumatua talk about, that it owns you, not the other way around.

On the other topics: invoking personal invective and tirades against a subjects gender, sex, personal grooming habits brings nothing to a debate on any subject other than to demean the debate and the debater.

I think that it is demonstrably so that one Mr Robert Muldoon, a doyen of Tory politics in NZ, did significantly more damage during his terms to the economy and social fabric of this country than any other politician except perhaps Rodger Douglas. But to invoke that this is so because he was an ugly, fat, bully with a strong little-man syndrome and thought nothing better of bullying his opponents into submission (the only person able to stand up to him was David Lange, now there is chalk and cheese!) bring nothing to the debate and has no place in it.

Equally so, one might assert that dear old Maggie (RIP) was nothing more than a gold digger trying desperately to escape the shackles of her Grantham past and that once she had sneered her millionaire husband, she could with gay abandon forget the working classes from whence she came and set about in comfort, dismantling the structures that kept the UK strong. Yes, there is no doubt that tough decisions needed to be taken, but from a position of financial comfort due in no part to her own labours, she lacked the slightest amount of humanity in taking those decisions and that the same position could have been arrived at with a more humanist approach.

Now, how does that help any debate about gender roles? The former assertion does not, that latter assertion does. One gender biased, one gender neutral.

It requires some mental effort to step aside from ones prejudices to make informed and rational debate.


SHIT, is that the time?? Better get moving......

Steve, why not extend the debate to the peoples that the Maori invaders ate? Where is their compensation? As I understand it the Maoris settled in NZ by conquest and it is an ultimate arrogance for them to claim that they were here first.

Women in politics is a good thing, take the current examples of Paula Bennett and the immediate past minister of police, Judith Collins. Also Jacinda Ardern, I dont agree with much of what she has to say but she has the courage of her convictions .

[codgyoleracer]

But back to what this thread was about, NZSBK dates 2014. With all due respect to the otherwise stellar work that Billy is doing I steadfastly maintain that he crossed a line that should never have been crossed by extending the Manfield round into a working week


What a load of Hogwash, so less weekends away overall, Less potential cost, More racing - But wait a minute we all have to take one extra day off for one round........and thats only if you want to do the practice day.

Bitchin for bitching sake in my mind.

Oh and i forgot, its not even a day off for you Rob, you ARE MEANT TO BE working anyway. Given that you were always gonna be there on the Saturday / Sunday anyway ?



Now - getting back to the thread proper - whos gonna win what ?

[jellywrestler]

to bashing and raping drunk chicks. they've set up a website to help with awareness of this problem and got 100 hits in the first hour!

[jellywrestler]

But as I am 1/2 way thorough a bottle of Sav.........



But as for indigionous people (prob spelt it wrong)

I've told you before you Pommy import, in New Zealand we DON'T DRINK AND SPELL. It's 1/2 way through a bottle...


You're obviously aware that there is a risk DRINKING AND SPELLING by your second statement and yes it's spelt wrong (sic) correct spelling is- the mud people.

[Billy]

What a load of Hogwash, so less weekends away overall, Less potential cost, More racing - But wait a minute we all have to take one extra day off for one round........and thats only if you want to do the practice day.

Bitchin for bitching sake in my mind.

Oh and i forgot, its not even a day off for you Rob, you ARE MEANT TO BE working anyway. Given that you were always gonna be there on the Saturday / Sunday anyway ?



Now - getting back to the thread proper - whos gonna win what ?

You forgot to mention ,It will be $200 less entry fees for more pointscoring opportunities,That should just about pay for the extra day off,Oh that and the 2 extra weeks everybodies not away from home or the airfares to get backwards and forwards to Teretonga etc,How ridiculous would that be?????And yet it's been going on for years.

Superbike = Shirriffs or Charlett
Supersport = Lewis
Superlite = Fitzgerald
250 Prod = Burgess or Perriton
125GP = Chandler
Sidecars = Smith/Shorter
Pro Twins = Bentley

[Robert Taylor]

What a load of Hogwash, so less weekends away overall, Less potential cost, More racing - But wait a minute we all have to take one extra day off for one round........and thats only if you want to do the practice day.

Bitchin for bitching sake in my mind.

Oh and i forgot, its not even a day off for you Rob, you ARE MEANT TO BE working anyway. Given that you were always gonna be there on the Saturday / Sunday anyway ?



Now - getting back to the thread proper - whos gonna win what ?

You forget that its not about me, its about the extra one or two working days lost, that is the whole point of my argument. It could have been a regular meeting of regular length. Just have to agree to disagree on this.

[jellywrestler]

You forget that its not about me, its about the extra one or two working days lost, that is the whole point of my argument. It could have been a regular meeting of regular length. Just have to agree to disagree on this.

fuck man
when i race we had thre weeks leave and seven rounds, two people flew back to the north island as noone else could afford it.
nowadays everyones got four weeks leave, and it's their chosen sport passion, just get on with it and stop the whining.

And yes i'm self employed and don't get four weeks, I choose to be self employed so I can get around the country and commentate, i couldn't do what i do with a real job and often it costs me a lot in travel and lost days from work, that's how i like it, every few meetings I actually get a petrol voucher or some money to help out a bit, but only every few sixteen meetings this year, none in wellington and more next at this stage.
I'm personally not happy with the shorter series but it's only my personal veiw.

[wharfy]

Steve, why not extend the debate to the peoples that the Maori invaders ate? Where is their compensation? As I understand it the Maoris settled in NZ by conquest and it is an ultimate arrogance for them to claim that they were here first.

Women in politics is a good thing, take the current examples of Paula Bennett and the immediate past minister of police, Judith Collins. Also Jacinda Ardern, I dont agree with much of what she has to say but she has the courage of her convictions .

Ah yes the Moriori myth - A ripping yarn invented by white folks...

"The Moriori are culturally Polynesian. They developed a distinct Moriori culture in the Chatham Islands as they adapted to local conditions. Although speculation once suggested that they settled the Chatham Islands directly from the tropical Polynesian islands, or even that they were Melanesian in origin, current research indicates that ancestral Moriori were Māori Polynesians who emigrated to the Chatham Islands from New Zealand before 1500"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people

[Robert Taylor]

fuck man
when i race we had thre weeks leave and seven rounds, two people flew back to the north island as noone else could afford it.
nowadays everyones got four weeks leave, and it's their chosen sport passion, just get on with it and stop the whining.

And yes i'm self employed and don't get four weeks, I choose to be self employed so I can get around the country and commentate, i couldn't do what i do with a real job and often it costs me a lot in travel and lost days from work, that's how i like it, every few meetings I actually get a petrol voucher or some money to help out a bit, but only every few sixteen meetings this year, none in wellington and more next at this stage.
I'm personally not happy with the shorter series but it's only my personal veiw.

Irrespective I am getting on with it. Its just that those who disagree with my right to my own opinion have rotated this through. No-one can accuse me of not being afraid to say what I really think. There are of course plus's and minuses. One prominent road racer that I spoke to last week who is self employed with a busy workload is now able to do the Nationals because of the cancellation of one round . It cuts much much less into his working weeks, consistent with the basis of my argument . Less is more!

[Robert Taylor]

Ah yes the Moriori myth - A ripping yarn invented by white folks...

"The Moriori are culturally Polynesian. They developed a distinct Moriori culture in the Chatham Islands as they adapted to local conditions. Although speculation once suggested that they settled the Chatham Islands directly from the tropical Polynesian islands, or even that they were Melanesian in origin, current research indicates that ancestral Moriori were Māori Polynesians who emigrated to the Chatham Islands from New Zealand before 1500"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people

And predecessors before them?

[RobGassit]

Ah yes the Moriori myth - A ripping yarn invented by white folks...

"The Moriori are culturally Polynesian. They developed a distinct Moriori culture in the Chatham Islands as they adapted to local conditions. Although speculation once suggested that they settled the Chatham Islands directly from the tropical Polynesian islands, or even that they were Melanesian in origin, current research indicates that ancestral Moriori were Māori Polynesians who emigrated to the Chatham Islands from New Zealand before 1500"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people

Apparently,,,, they were quite delicious!!

[jellywrestler]

Superbike = Shirriffs or Charlett


that's a funny way to spell Nick Cole

[codgyoleracer]

You forget that its not about me, its about the extra one or two working days lost, that is the whole point of my argument. It could have been a regular meeting of regular length. Just have to agree to disagree on this.

Umm, so lets see

+2extra days minus + 6 extra days (if there were 3 rounds in the south) = 4 less days away from work

Yep, Ive just double checked that using both left and right hand fingers - and it keeps coming out the same.

[Robert Taylor]

Umm, so lets see

+2extra days minus + 6 extra days (if there were 3 rounds in the south) = 4 less days away from work

Yep, Ive just double checked that using both left and right hand fingers - and it keeps coming out the same.

You have missed the point of what I was saying. Its a positive to eliminate one round, it would have been a further positive to have kept the last round to the ''regular'' timeframe

[Shaun Harris]

You have missed the point of what I was saying. Its a positive to eliminate one round, it would have been a further positive to have kept the last round to the ''regular'' timeframe








Could have been should have been, but still IS BETTER!

[Robert Taylor]

Could have been should have been, but still IS BETTER!

Correct! And of course wo betide anyone that has the temerity to express an opinion on this site that may not be palatable to those that perhaps can only see racing as the one most important thing in their lives. Even if the opinion has some merits.

Point of fact possibly all of the Superbike riders that I am contracted to help this season may totally disagree with me, but that in no way dilutes the job at hand that has to be done for them.

[Shaun Harris]

Correct! And of course wo betide anyone that has the temerity to express an opinion on this site that may not be palatable to those that perhaps can only see racing as the one most important thing in their lives. Even if the opinion has some merits.

Point of fact possibly all of the Superbike riders that I am contracted to help this season may totally disagree with me, but that in no way dilutes the job at hand that has to be done for them.




I Know what you need Robert, more staff who understand motorcycles and basics of suspension, that way you would have more time to fullfill your customer orders in a less work hours enviroment for you.

[wharfy]

And predecessors before them?

There doesn't appear to be any evidence of occupation by anyone pre-Maori* (despite the claims of a few "interesting" characters that variously Chineese, Spanish and even Irish settled in New Zealand prior to the Polynesian migration)

The Stuff I was taught at school was in fact mostly bullshit - Someone just made it up ( a plausable theory but falsified evidence).

*Maori (in the Maori language) means "ordinary" or "human being" as opposed to Gods or spirits. Many Maori use the term tangata whenua "the people of the land" .
The much maligned term Pākehā is a Māori language term for New Zealanders who are "of European descent" other migrants and their decendants are "tau iwi"

The current scientific studies appear to show that Polynesians are decendants of the natives from Taiwan.

[Billy]

The Stuff I was taught at school was in fact mostly bullshit



Well that explains everything :facepalm:

[Robert Taylor]

There doesn't appear to be any evidence of occupation by anyone pre-Maori* (despite the claims of a few "interesting" characters that variously Chineese, Spanish and even Irish settled in New Zealand prior to the Polynesian migration)

The Stuff I was taught at school was in fact mostly bullshit - Someone just made it up ( a plausable theory but falsified evidence).

*Maori (in the Maori language) means "ordinary" or "human being" as opposed to Gods or spirits. Many Maori use the term tangata whenua "the people of the land" .
The much maligned term Pākehā is a Māori language term for New Zealanders who are "of European descent" other migrants and their decendants are "tau iwi"

The current scientific studies appear to show that Polynesians are decendants of the natives from Taiwan.

Yes I hear you about being teached BS , or politically aligned BS at school. I found a few of my left leaning high school teachers insufferable. ( And they likely reciprocated those thoughts, in fairness ) I remember with fondness a teacher telling me that the sacked Aussie priminister Gough Whitlam was going to re-elected by a landslide after he was dismissed by the Governor General. Of course, I disagreed with him and the result was as I had hoped it would be, the polar opposite with Fraser smashing Whitlam. Thankfully not all school teachers are left leaning.
Some of them had been in the real world first and had a protestant right wing work ethic that dictated that sport was largely only for the weekends!

[RobGassit]

Yes I hear you about being teached BS , or politically aligned BS at school. I found a few of my left leaning high school teachers insufferable. ( And they likely reciprocated those thoughts, in fairness ) I remember with fondness a teacher telling me that the sacked Aussie priminister Gough Whitlam was going to re-elected by a landslide after he was dismissed by the Governor General. Of course, I disagreed with him and the result was as I had hoped it would be, the polar opposite with Fraser smashing Whitlam. Thankfully not all school teachers are left leaning.
Some of them had been in the real world first and had a protestant right wing work ethic that dictated that sport was largely only for the weekends!

Except for test cricket of course, which takes 5 days to have a draw...

[wharfy]

Well that explains everything :facepalm:

Hahaha.. touché !

[nzmikey]

Calm down, lets not turn this rape into a murder.

lol thats my quote ... give it back :killingme

[nodrog]

lol thats my quote ... give it back :killingme

Sorry young fulla you are abit late.

[nzmikey]

Sorry young fulla you are abit late.

Was worth a shot