Hear no evil, see no evil?

[Maha]

Simple question really.

On a motorcycle, is it better to be seen or heard by other road users in the first instance?

Can’t be both, it’s either one or the other that ‘first’ alerts other road users as to your whereabouts on the road.
For me, it is being seen. As a driver, I notice/see a bike in the rear vision mirror way before I hear it. It also applies to forward vision.

[unstuck]

Seen, mostly. There has been the odd occasion I have heard em before I have seen them though.:mellow:

[Daffyd]

I would say be seen first. My bikes have always been fairly quiet, though. I guess a bit of noise might wake a sleepy driver enough to check his mirror and other surroundings.

[Murray]

Has to be seen because SMIDHY is harder to pronounce than SMIDSY

[Akzle]

For me, it is being seen. As a driver, I notice/see a bike in the rear vision mirror way before I hear it.

see heres the problem, theres fuckall drivers around.
Steering wheel attendants, plenty. They struggle with whats in front of them, whats behind?? Who cares.

Since humans are fairly visually orientated, and some large percentage of what the brain receives comes from the optic nerve, being seen is more likely.

[Madness]

Given that some people struggle to identify the direction that a noise is coming from I'd say it's safer to be seen first, heard second. You're still not going to get me into a Hi-Viz though, I give less than a fuck on that one.

[jafar]

It makes little difference, most car drivers do not see a motorcycle as a threat to them so tend to ignore them. Either that or they just don't give a rats arse about other road users, your better off to treat all other road users as the deaf & blind braindead fucktards they have proven themselves to be :Pokey:

[Banditbandit]

It makes little difference, most car drivers do not see a motorcycle as a threat to them so tend to ignore them. Either that or they just don't give a rats arse about other road users, your better off to treat all other road users as the deaf & blind braindead fucktards they have proven themselves to be :Pokey:

I'm with him .. but if I had to make a choice ??? Seen is better ... as Madnes says, people (and I'm one) have trouble identifying where noise is coming from ... a noisey bike just makes people look more ...

Drivers don't swerve or brake to miss noise - they swerve or brake to miss obstacles they can see ...


As a driver, I notice/see a bike in the rear vision mirror way before I hear it. It also applies to forward vision.

Maha ... you answer your own question ...

[Trade_nancy]

Agree with Jafar. Sight or sound - it makes no difference to the fools that are the ones likely to get us.
Case in point last Saturday avo on the bike with wife on back coming though 50k inner city streets and a cager approached and stopped at RH intersection ahead. As I got within about 20 metres - she pulled out and started a RH turn into my path. I had two headlights going and flashed on the high beam on - giving THREE halogen beams pointed at her..she still moved into my path. Leaned on the horn long and hard. She gave me the middle finger in the rear mirror. I pulled along side - shouted abuse in several dialects simultaneously while spitting into my visor I was so angry... till I noted it was the woman who sits next to me at work.
Went to work on Monday and waited for her to walk in the door. Confronted her and she said "Oh I never saw any motorbike, but I do remember being tooted at by some car - yeh I gave them the fingers...I get road rage quite often".

[Maha]

Maha ... you answer your own question ...

That's because the thread is directed at getting a personal view on a particular subject, what I said is my personal view.

[jafar]

Agree with Jafar. Sight or sound - it makes no difference to the fools that are the ones likely to get us.
Case in point last Saturday avo on the bike with wife on back coming though 50k inner city streets and a cager approached and stopped at RH intersection ahead. As I got within about 20 metres - she pulled out and started a RH turn into my path. I had two headlights going and flashed on the high beam on - giving THREE halogen beams pointed at her..she still moved into my path. Leaned on the horn long and hard. She gave me the middle finger in the rear mirror. I pulled along side - shouted abuse in several dialects simultaneously while spitting into my visor I was so angry... till I noted it was the woman who sits next to me at work.
Went to work on Monday and waited for her to walk in the door. Confronted her and she said "Oh I never saw any motorbike, but I do remember being tooted at by some car - yeh I gave them the fingers...I get road rage quite often".

I've had idiots like your workmate take me on when I'm in a bloody big white freightliner & lit up like a XMAS TREE :weird:, they just don't give a rats about anyone but themselves . :no:

[Madness]

a noisey bike just makes people look more ...

Often in the wrong direction. Quite often the noisiest bikes are ridden in such an enthusiastic manner that they're long gone by the time the noise registers.

[iYRe]

just work on the theory that you are neither heard nor seen

thus the argument is rendered invalid.

[Gremlin]

Seen first. Locates the bike.

[Madness]

just work on the theory that you are neither heard nor seen

thus the argument is rendered invalid.

Does it not then also render invalid the argument for using full beam?
:corn:

[Smifffy]

When I'm in the cage I got the sounds on full noise. I can't hear shit. I can't hear shit at the best of times. When I'm on the bike I can't hear shit. When the old folks do their license, they test their eyesight, not their hearing.

[bosslady]

Simple question really.

On a motorcycle, is it better to be seen or heard by other road users in the first instance?

Can’t be both, it’s either one or the other that ‘first’ alerts other road users as to your whereabouts on the road.
For me, it is being seen. As a driver, I notice/see a bike in the rear vision mirror way before I hear it. It also applies to forward vision.

Seen.

I blast the music in my car, I never hear a bike go by until it's too late.

[Oblivion]

Seen.

If you hear a noise, you only get a rough indication of how far away it is and the approximate direction. Its not good enough to establish a solid idea of where the thing actually is.

[Smifffy]

When I'm in the cage I got the sounds on full noise. I can't hear shit. I can't hear shit at the best of times. When I'm on the bike I can't hear shit. When the old folks do their license, they test their eyesight, not their hearing.

All that said, I do actually look out for you fuckers when I'm in the cage.

Was in some cunt's blind spot today on the bike then got shitty cos he didn't see me. My bad. Always learning eh.

Then again, bastard shoulda knewed I was there, cos I gave way to him just a minute before. Oh well.

[iYRe]

Does it not then also render invalid the argument for using full beam?
:corn:

yes, therefore use full beam, loud pipes and an air raid siren

[nerrrd]

Seen.

On a side note, seen a couple of ads recently for motorcycle gear with rear facing static/flashing red led lights on them - macna jacket and a zeus helmet, wonder if that'll catch on?

A siren would be good, though - much prefer it when emergency vehicles have their sirens going rather than just the flashing lights, gives you that little bit of extra time to get organised.

[Smifffy]

Seen. Recently rebooted my hi-vis vest accordingly, old one was losing some of its vis.

On a side note, seen a couple of ads recently for motorcycle gear with rear facing static/flashing red led lights on them - macna jacket and a zeus helmet, wonder if that'll catch on?

A siren would be good, though - much prefer it when emergency vehicles have their sirens going rather than just the flashing lights, gives you that little bit of extra time to get organised.

Yeah. kinda have to agree there. If a siren goes off, and cuts through the blasting sounds, then I'm all like "Whoa WTF was that? Oh. There it is.."

[Maha]

Seen. Recently rebooted my hi-vis vest accordingly, old one was losing some of its vis.

On a side note, seen a couple of ads recently for motorcycle gear with rear facing static/flashing red led lights on them - macna jacket and a zeus helmet, wonder if that'll catch on?

A siren would be good, though - much prefer it when emergency vehicles have their sirens going rather than just the flashing lights, gives you that little bit of extra time to get organised.

I was sitting at some lights last night by Shore City and noticed a push bike that had it's frame lit up in bright green, and wheels I think but it was the frame that made it a stand out.

[avgas]

If its big and black definitely see first. I pay no attention to Hi-Viz anymore - most road cones wear it.

[Ulsterkiwi]

when I started riding (not so very long ago) I got two bits of advice from relis who are riders.

Ride like noone can see you.

Ride like everyone is trying to kill you.

Yes we are visually driven, its why we have both eyes at the front of our head and we dont have big tall, independently movable ears. We are predators anatomically. Which is why the second bit of advice is sound.
Being biased to visual stimuli is why turn indicators flash, flashing grabs our attention. 3 seconds of indication before a manoevre is a good rule when you understand human physiology but 3 or even 30 seconds of indication doesnt mean squat if it cannot be seen.

[bluninja]

Seen is best. But if they aren't looking my way then a quick toot on the horn. If they hear it then they would "normally" turn in the direction of the sound and may see me. If they don't, then they may be deaf, have their sound up loud, or not give a toss about anyone else on the road. Either way it helps me with my planning and decision making.

[Maha]

Not a Hi-Viz means safety thread...just let it go. :brick:

What brought the question to mind was, how good my bike sounds with the stock pipe, which lead to ''What the general consensus would be over sight V sound of a bike'' so far it's a resounding swing towards being SEEN.

[scumdog]

when I started riding (not so very long ago) I got two bits of advice from relis who are riders.

Ride like noone can see you.

Ride like everyone is trying to kill you.

.

My style completely - and add: "Ride like the 'other person' won't do what they are MEANT to do"!:yes:

(i.e. not stop at stop sign etc)

Oh, and seen before heard in order of priority...

[Paulo]

heh, I had a women suddenly change lanes on me last night, no indicating no head check, Was all good as I tend to expect this sort of thing in Wellington, I did give her door a little kick at the lights to get her attention, She rolled down the window and we had a polite chat about looking before changing lanes and suggesting perhaps she might like to try using her indicator, I was very polite as halfway through our chat I realised I'd put a bloody big dent in her door, I almost felt a little guilty.

[kiwi cowboy]

heh, I had a women suddenly change lanes on me last night, no indicating no head check, Was all good as I tend to expect this sort of thing in Wellington, I did give her door a little kick at the lights to get her attention, She rolled down the window and we had a polite chat about looking before changing lanes and suggesting perhaps she might like to try using her indicator, I was very polite as halfway through our chat I realised I'd put a bloody big dent in her door, I almost felt a little guilty.

So who do I say you are for my insurance forms and can you supply your insurance details please so we can sort this dent out:clap:

[nerrrd]

Not a Hi-Viz means safety thread...just let it go. :brick:


My bad shouldn't have mentioned it.

[Maha]

My bad shouldn't have mentioned it.

You were not the first, the gun jumping started early on.

[EJK]

Simple question really.

On a motorcycle, is it better to be seen or heard by other road users in the first instance?

Can’t be both, it’s either one or the other that ‘first’ alerts other road users as to your whereabouts on the road.
For me, it is being seen. As a driver, I notice/see a bike in the rear vision mirror way before I hear it. It also applies to forward vision.

Ofcourse, cause light travels faster than sound.

[buggerit]

Not a Hi-Viz means safety thread...just let it go. :brick:

What brought the question to mind was, how good my bike sounds with the stock pipe, which lead to ''What the general consensus would be over sight V sound of a bike'' so far it's a resounding swing towards being SEEN.

I have noticed that hawks and other livestock hear my bike a lot better than the ute and are well clear of the road when I am on the bike but in the ute it is not unusual to have to take evasive action, the bike has a Leo Vince can.

[Wayz]

If a knob head is texting and driving sight or sound doesn't apply!

[iranana]

I ride like everybody in a car is deaf and dumb. Seeing as your exhausts are pushing sound away from the direction you're moving, being heard isn't very likely. When lane splitting, being noisy helps but a lot of people listen to music/their radios quite loud. I like to keep my bike up in its power band when I'm filtering through traffic - makes a racket and allows for a speedy escape if necessary :shifty: But all the while my eyes are looking as many places as they can...

[skinman]

No one has mentioned how much fun it can be being as loud as possible especially alongside parked cars.... I kind of miss that but not on a longish ride
Have noticed going from a loud bike to a quiet one that the biggest difference is with pedestrians, black & loud makes emm run, quiet & they dawdle (untill I find the horn, thats nice & loud)

[Banditbandit]

Yeah - I noticed the same - getting a very quiet BMW after the loud bikes I had was quite a shcok .. and I couldn't scare the hell out of pedestrians that way ...

Then I got the bandits - even quieter (until I put an AM can on one ...)

[baffa]

As said earlier, sight normally beats sound.
However, sound can beat sight.
If there is a noise in the background, I feel this is more noticeable than something in your peripheral vision, eg sight beats sound if they are obvious sights/sounds, but when it comes to "background noise" sound can often beat sight imho.

My approach when in traffic is to be intimidating. Not staying in the same place in your lane, not keeping the same revs, I move around a little bit, move my head, and tend to use revs to make a bit of noise. If people notice you, or feel slightly intimidated, they seem less likely to ignore you, and also less likely to tailgate, which I fking hate.