GOT HIM!

[ManDownUnder]

The little critter that dropped the concrete of the overbridge...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10342065

Only 14...!

[Lias]

20 year old guy dead
14 year old going to jail for murder..

What a bloody waste.

[scumdog]

Everybody must have been driving/riding safely and not speeding to free-up the cops involved in this investigation, - good on ya peoples!! :whistle:

I wonder what 'horrible' sentence he'll get?? (sounds of old bus tickets being soaked) :wait: :mad:

[Motu]

Good one....but 14,the judge will give him a nasty stare,that'll teach him eh?

[ManDownUnder]

Everybody must have been driving/riding safely and not speeding to free-up the cops involved in this investigation, - good on ya peoples!! :whistle:

I wonder what 'horrible' sentence he'll get?? (sounds of old bus tickets being soaked) :wait: :mad:

I'm just worried he'll get put into a borstel or somewhere he can be educated on how to get away with it...

[bugjuice]

hope the little shit doesn't get off lightly. No way in hell he didn't know the consiquence of what he was doing.
must admit, as horrible as the whole tragedy is, was a lucky shot. could have been aiming for the bonnet or roof.. to get the window in such a spot is a very slim chance.
Still, they were throwing stuff off the bridge which they know is wrong, and someone is dead because of it

[scumdog]

hope the little shit doesn't get off lightly. No way in hell he didn't know the consiquence of what he was doing.
must admit, as horrible as the whole tragedy is, was a lucky shot. could have been aiming for the bonnet or roof.. to get the window in such a spot is a very slim chance.
Still, they were throwing stuff off the bridge which they know is wrong, and someone is dead because of it

Yeah it was 'lucky' 'cos it 'only' killed the driver - sheesh!! :mad:

I guess it could have hit the roof, knocked it onto the driver head and cause him to swerve and hit a concrete bridge abutment and all four occupants be killed, I suppose that would have been 'unlucky' eh??? :weird:

[Devil]

Release him to the public! Up with mob justice!

:sherlock:

[James Deuce]

No way in hell he didn't know the consiquence of what he was doing.


Kind of a point, but at 14 he wouldn't have been thinking far enough ahead to thnk about someone dying. His main thought was, "Wouldn't it be cool if we hit a car?"

Not excusing it, but the 14 year old male brain is a messed up place. If he's had no distinct, constant, lifelong instruction in consequences for his own actions his basic mindset doesn't equate stuff that he does to other people as being "wrong", or that stupidity can be fatal.

[ManDownUnder]

Kind of a point, but at 14 he wouldn't have been thinking far enough ahead to thnk about someone dying. His main thought was, "Wouldn't it be cool if we hit a car?"

Not excusing it, but the 14 year old male brain is a messed up place. If he's had no distinct, constant, lifelong instruction in consequences for his own actions his basic mindset doesn't equate stuff that he does to other people as being "wrong", or that stupidity can be fatal.

... and at the risk of re-igniting an old conversation... the current crop of games, movies and "entertainment" which trivialise death, and reward you for it, aren't going to hinder any tendencies.

I hope all the kids in the area get a bloody good wake up call when they realise this one kid is actually being charged with murder.

[bugjuice]

Yeah it was 'lucky' 'cos it 'only' killed the driver - sheesh!! :mad:

I guess it could have hit the roof, knocked it onto the driver head and cause him to swerve and hit a concrete bridge abutment and all four occupants be killed, I suppose that would have been 'unlucky' eh??? :weird:
I think you've taken my comment the wrong way.. I didn't say it's good luck, it's bloody rotten luck for everyone. But you try hitting a moving target with such consequence. No way in hell am I saying that any of this in a 'good' context. I'm saying it's a million-to-one shot, that's all.

And Jim, I agree, the 14 year old male is all over the place at the best of times. And it could be what they were thinking. But the act of throwing things off a bridge, even the youngest of kids know that's wrong to start with, let alone some ~8kg rock (or whatever it was).. What did they expect to happen?

[scumdog]

Kind of a point, but at 14 he wouldn't have been thinking far enough ahead to thnk about someone dying. His main thought was, "Wouldn't it be cool if we hit a car?"

Not excusing it, but the 14 year old male brain is a messed up place. If he's had no distinct, constant, lifelong instruction in consequences for his own actions his basic mindset doesn't equate stuff that he does to other people as being "wrong", or that stupidity can be fatal.

The retard has probably watched too many videos where there is a massive free-way pile up, wrecks everywhere (cool!! our retard thinks, - well actually we all know he DOESN'T think)) and everybody crawls out of their wrecked cars rubbing their sore elbow/banged head and stand around looking at the mess - while the hero/bad guy leaps over the crashed vehicles and makes his getaway.
Believe me, some of those slack-jawed, mouth-breathing, lackwitted, improvident oxygen theives think those videos are like real life - instead of being like Bugs Bunny which is closer to the truth.

[James Deuce]

And Jim, I agree, the 14 year old male is all over the place at the best of times. And it could be what they were thinking. But the act of throwing things off a bridge, even the youngest of kids know that's wrong to start with, let alone some ~8kg rock (or whatever it was).. What did they expect to happen?

They know it's wrong, but they don't understand at a fundamental level why. Bet this kid does now. They certainly didn't think that the rock would end up in the car, they were merely after the gratification of hitting one.

It's the the old, "Yeah, yeah, it's wrong, but you can't make me do what you say, so shut up old man." thing.

[Beemer]

Yeah it was 'lucky' 'cos it 'only' killed the driver - sheesh!! :mad:

I guess it could have hit the roof, knocked it onto the driver head and cause him to swerve and hit a concrete bridge abutment and all four occupants be killed, I suppose that would have been 'unlucky' eh??? :weird:

I don't think bugjuice was meaning 'lucky' in the typical sense of the word, perhaps it wasn't the right word to use in this instance, but I think they were meaning it was statistically a 'lucky' shot. If you stood there and tried to get a block of concrete to hit the windscreen of a car moving at 100kph underneath you, it is likely you would not be successful. It is a terrible, terrible tragedy that on this day, as 'luck' would have it, they scored a bulls-eye.

I am glad the offender has been caught, but I really doubt they will truly understand the devastation they have caused. I agree that they probably didn't expect to kill someone, this was an extremely unfortunate outcome of an act of sheer stupidity. It's not like they would have had any real idea of what would happen when a block of concrete that size hits a moving vehicle. I bet they thought "cool, let's see how much damage we can cause to somebody's car or see if we can make someone swerve to avoid it".

And what penalty can be imposed that is fair? We've all done dumb things that have had consequences far beyond what we thought would happen at the time, but this kid knew that whatever the outcome, it could be serious, so they do need to be made aware of this and penalised accordingly.

The sad thing is, it will probably make some sickos out there think that this is a 'fun' thing to try. And why is it always the decent ones who are killed, they never kill their drug dealing cousin or thieving neighbour.

[scumdog]

The sad thing is, it will probably make some sickos out there think that this is a 'fun' thing to try. And why is it always the decent ones who are killed, they never kill their drug dealing cousin or thieving neighbour.

I know, only a reject from 'tard school would throw a lump THAT size (or any size come to think of it) off a bridge onto moving cars - how were they to know it wasn't mum/dad/sibling/mates that were in the car????? :weird: :wacko:

[enigma51]

im sorry to say that although he is 14 and did not think of what might happen he should be made an example off (I know I cant spell) there has been two many occasions where people have done similiar things on that bridge and got "lucky" to not hit a car or bike etc

[Da Bird]

I'm just worried he'll get put into a borstel or somewhere he can be educated on how to get away with it...

Probably get a similar sentence to that 12 year old, Bailey K... who helped kill the pizza worker in Papakura - 7 years (for manslaughter) at a secure CYPFS facility in Christchurch.

[Motu]

I hope all the kids in the area get a bloody good wake up call when they realise this one kid is actually being charged with murder.

I think this is the only good that will come out of this tradgety - EVERY kid in schools all over the country knows what has gone down,the closer to the perpetrator the more real it becomes.

[ManDownUnder]

I think this is the only good that will come out of this tradgety - EVERY kid in schools all over the country knows what has gone down,the closer to the perpetrator the more real it becomes.

Yeah - I was just thinking about the good it would do this kid to go the funeral. He'd get to see the sadness and loathing first hand, and I think that would be a good thing.

Unfortunately I think his presence would ruin the farwells for many of the mourners - which I think is unfair.

Tough one... but I am a fan of people being responsible for their actions... and he needs to see what he is responsible for.

MDU

[crashe]

If you pick up the 8kg rock with the INTENT to throw it down onto a unsuspecting person on the motorway.... then it should be MURDER. He had INTENT to harm someone. That is premeditated. So then it is MURDER. Not manslaughter. Throw him inside with MURDERER beside his name.

When I ride on the motorway I always look up at every bridge over the motorway to see who is up there, just because of these murdering little idiots.

Time to set an example to these kids... and I don't care if he was on "P" or whatever other lame excuse his defence can come up with... its still MURDER. He must pay for his crime, he took a life with the INTENT to harm someone.

[MSTRS]

As I get older, I seem to be developing less & less 'tolerance' for the stupidity/criminal tendencies displayed by some. I'm not sure that I can add anything objective to this thread, other than 'He took a life, he must pay for that'

[MikeL]

A wake-up call? I doubt it. How will the other 14 and 15 year olds with the same fucked-up brains get the message? Through the media? You mean television news and current affairs???
Through the schools? They're not in class half the time and when they're there, they're still not there...
Their parents? If their parents had been there for them when they were needed, the brains wouldn't be fucked up...

But let's not ask too many awkward questions about how and why a society can let this sort of thing happen. Let's go back to calculating how much tax we're going to save under the new government...

[James Deuce]

It's odd because some crimes we've witnessed lately have made me foam at the mouth. This one just leaves an overwhelming feeling of sadness, at many levels.

[Quasievil]

Unfortunetly there is absolutely nothing the court can do or the police or the family that can punish or redirect this little arseholes wreckless behaviour.

He probably just finished playing X Box and felt like a thrill. loverly world isnt it

Personaly I would shoot him and hang his rotting carcuss from the overpass for a few months:devil2:

[Smorg]

I know, only a reject from 'tard school would throw a lump THAT size (or any size come to think of it) off a bridge onto moving cars - how were they to know it wasn't mum/dad/sibling/mates that were in the car????? :weird: :wacko:

Who cares who it was in the car....................its disgusting anyway you look at it no matter who was in the car the little bastard should be hung drawn and quatered :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr: :oi-grr:

[Lou Girardin]

I'm surprised at the amount of 'understanding' being shown in some posts.
I don't care if he has an underpriviliged upbringing, if he was weaned too early, if he watches endless playstation or c rap videos. He's a murdering piece of shit and should be removed from society before he breeds.

[Smorg]

I'm surprised at the amount of 'understanding' being shown in some posts.
I don't care if he has an underpriviliged upbringing, if he was weaned too early, if he watches endless playstation or c rap videos. He's a murdering piece of shit and should be removed from society before he breeds.

I fully agree no smypathy should be given he didnt show any to whoever could have been driving under the bridge so we dont have to return the favour...............little bastard

[Hitcher]

I suspect our 14-year-old alleged offender and his mates had been practicing, probably with small objects like pebbles, and had a reference mark on the road which, if they dropped an object at the same time a car travelling at 100kmh passed the mark, they knew that the dropped object would hit the car. Then, egging each other on, they tried larger objects, unfortunately culminating in an 8kg lump of concrete. I do not believe in randomness in matters of this type. I also call Sir Isaac Newton as a prosecution witness...

[Paul in NZ]

I have zero tolerance for this, 14 or not. You throw things at folks, sooner or later you are going to hurt someone, you don't need to understand the physics behind it. Remove this pissant for the gene pool immediately.... Lock em up if you have too but any one this stupid or callous has no more rights... Lock up the dip shits that throw beer bottles at the police and shit out of car windows too...

Anyway...

Remember back a few weeks to the crazy lady road rage thread and the suggestions of sparkplugs and ball bearings thrown over shoulders? yeah sure, she was not quite innocent BUT maybe you can now see the point I was making.

Deliberately throwing shit in areas where there are fast moving vehicles should be attempted murder....

[Biff]

Do what the Iranians do - put him in prison for 4 years, then when he turns 18 try him for murder - then execute him. Problem solved, and the gene pool is cleansed of another inbred fuckwit.

[inlinefour]

Kids go through developmental stages. With the modern era of parents working full time + computer/xbox/playstaion gmaes etc = kids missing out on important developmental milestones and living within a dream world. I reckon its adding up to teenagers who drive like maniacs and kids who do senseless things like this 14 year old boy. I suspect that its only going to get worse, lets hope that I'm wrong... :oi-grr:

[ManDownUnder]

Kids go through developmental stages. With the modern era of parents working full time + computer/xbox/playstaion gmaes etc = kids missing out on important developmental milestones and living within a dream world. I reckon its adding up to teenagers who drive like maniacs and kids who do senseless things like this 14 year old boy. I suspect that its only going to get worse, lets hope that I'm wrong... :oi-grr:

Agreed entirely...

The add in a sense of hopelessness bourne of poverty or Mum and Dad arguing etc... and some booze to deal with that... boys being boys egging each other on etc...

It's easy to see how someone can get really stuffed up in this world.

[Smorg]

Agreed entirely...

The add in a sense of hopelessness bourne of poverty or Mum and Dad arguing etc... and some booze to deal with that... boys being boys egging each other on etc...

It's easy to see how someone can get really stuffed up in this world.

HOw can you be sympathectic? :no:

[idb]

I think that because kids these days are more observers than participators (TV, video games) and are often disconnected from the others that they are interacting with (text phones, computers) they are unable to develop empathy and understand the consequences of their actions.
Attending the funeral of the guy would be brilliant therapy.

[Big Dave]

Agreed entirely...

The add in a sense of hopelessness bourne of poverty or Mum and Dad arguing etc... and some booze to deal with that... boys being boys egging each other on etc...

It's easy to see how someone can get really stuffed up in this world.

Agreed entirely...too

I've ranted before about the effects of the violent drivel that is presented to them on television 24/7 - emulations - games - web sites and it almost has me thinking we're entering a phase of human evilution.

When will we be smart enough to say that all this mass media murder-tainment is having a bad effect and the ratings that sell toothpaste are secondary considerations.

(OK I'll admit it - that was a typo it was meant to be evolution- but I'm leaving it)

[Big Dave]

HOw can you be sympathectic? :no:

Because I did stupid things when I was 14 too. Just nowhere near that stupendously stupid or tragic.

That being said I hope the punishment is stern and appropriate. He's still old enough to know right from wrong.

[James Deuce]

Because I did stupid things when I was 14 too. Just nowhere near that stupendously stupid or tragic.

That being said I hope the punishment is stern and appropriate. He's still old enough to know right from wrong.

Hear hear. Some of that feeling of sympathy for me is also because he may well have decent parents who are now going to torture themselves forever trying to figure out where they went wrong. We're assuming this kid was a drop kick. This may have been the first time he ever did anything stupid.

[HenryDorsetCase]

If you pick up the 8kg rock with the INTENT to throw it down onto a unsuspecting person on the motorway.... then it should be MURDER. He had INTENT to harm someone. That is premeditated. So then it is MURDER. Not manslaughter. Throw him inside with MURDERER beside his name.

When I ride on the motorway I always look up at every bridge over the motorway to see who is up there, just because of these murdering little idiots.

Time to set an example to these kids... and I don't care if he was on "P" or whatever other lame excuse his defence can come up with... its still MURDER. He must pay for his crime, he took a life with the INTENT to harm someone.

well actually no:

www.legislation.govt.nz

Crimes Act 1961:



167.Murder defined—



Culpable homicide is murder in each of the following cases:





(a)If the offender means to cause the death of the person killed:





(b)If the offender means to cause to the person killed any bodily injury that is known to the offender to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not:





(c)If the offender means to cause death, or, being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person, though he does not mean to hurt the person killed:





(d)If the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one.


and



168(1)Culpable homicide is also murder in each of the following cases, whether the offender means or does not mean death to ensue, or knows or does not know that death is likely to ensue:





(a)If he means to cause grievous bodily injury for the purpose of facilitating the commission of any of the offences mentioned in subsection (2) of this section, or facilitating the flight or avoiding the detection of the offender upon the commission or attempted commission thereof, or for the purpose of resisting lawful apprehension in respect of any offence whatsoever, and death ensues from such injury:





(b)If he administers any stupefying or overpowering thing for any of the purposes aforesaid, and death ensues from the effects thereof:





(c)If he by any means wilfully stops the breath of any person for any of the purposes aforesaid, and death ensues from such stopping of breath.





(2)The offences referred to in subsection (1) of this section are those specified in the following provisions of this Act, namely:





(a)Section 73 (treason) or section 78 (communicating secrets):





(b)Section 79 (sabotage):





(c)Section 92 (piracy):





(d)Section 93 (piratical acts):





(e)Section 119 to 122 (escape or rescue from [prison] or lawful custody or detention):





[(f)section 128 (sexual violation):]





(g)Section 167 (murder):





(h)Section 208 (abduction):





(i)Section 209 (kidnapping):





[(j)section 231 (burglary):]





[(k)section 234 (robbery):]





[(l)section 267 (arson)]




now it seems to me that none of those definitions is a good fit for the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard required to convict.

I think it will be a case where the charge is murder, but the judge will direct a conviction for manslaughter (on the basis of reckless or dangerous conduct).

Like someone else said, the sentence will be "go to this holiday camp and be taught how to be a proper theif, then have your record wiped at age 18"

Its important the fuckers dont breed... and neither do his parents.

[hondacmx450]

it dont mater if it was his first time or not you soft cocksif it was your son that was dead i spose you would go and say it is all right we forgive you and god loves you and we r all praying for you

im praying the little shit dies an eye for a eye and then our crims would think twice or at least thay would suffer the same thing as death why should i pay tax to keep this little fuck whit in juv and if you say im hart less year i am

i lost a freind like this and the prick got off with next to nufing so year i know what it is like
no justice

[Zed]

The little critter that dropped the concrete of the overbridge...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10342065
That brings a sigh of relief, I kind of thought they didn't have a hope of catching him? I'm happy they've caught him for the sake of the family & friends of the victim/s, but
I'm also sad that justice will probably not be served because of the age of the offender!! :no:

[Ixion]

well actually no:

www.legislation.govt.nz

Crimes Act 1961:


now it seems to me that none of those definitions is a good fit for the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard required to convict.

I think it will be a case where the charge is murder, but the judge will direct a conviction for manslaughter (on the basis of reckless or dangerous conduct).

Like someone else said, the sentence will be "go to this holiday camp and be taught how to be a proper theif, then have your record wiped at age 18"

Its important the fuckers dont breed... and neither do his parents.


"(d)If the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one."

seems a pretty good fit to me.

[vifferman]

I'm also sad that justice will probably not be served because of the age of the offender!! :no:
But what would be just, Zed?
There are no reparations that are suitable, and no punishment that will bring the guy who died back to his family. Even the harshest of punishments isn't going to right this wrong.
If the perpetrator is sensitive, and has a conscience, he will be remorseful and regret what he has done, regardless of any punitive measures taken, and if he isn't remorseful, then any punishment will only serve to 'toughen him up'.

It's the same for most crimes - you always get people bleating on about not getting justice, usually when someone's been killed and they want revenge (and think that is justice) but save for crimes where reparation is possible, there is no justice, just the due course of the legal process.

[Zed]

But what would be just, Zed?Full "life" imprisonment.

[placidfemme]

20 year old guy dead
14 year old going to jail for murder..

What a bloody waste.

:( what a shame... both young, one has no future now, and the other just screwed his up proberly beyond repair...

[ManDownUnder]

Full "life" imprisonment.

I hear ya - I gotta admit I'd be inclined to ask "why" he did it. If there is an issue that can be corrected - let's aim for that.

It's easy enough to say lock him up, throw away the key, kill him... or whatever... but without understanding the cause of what happened, how can be be sure it won't happen again? How do we know this kid isn't a poofteenth away from being the next Prime Minister, or discoverer of Cancer treatments currently unknown.

The victim's family and friends are up in arms about it - and rightly so. But I think a just society needs to weigh all the facts, neutrally, and come to an understanding of what happened before we're able to adequately prescribe what happens next.

Last - before the flames go up on this post... I am not advocating what the kid did - I think it's one the dumbest things he could have... I am saying we need to stop and think before we act.

Because of the emotional charge this time - I think it's cause to stop and think for LONGER than we normally would.

MDU

[ManDownUnder]

Bring back hard labour, capital punishment for capital offences, and other appropriate punishments.

Hard labour - yes, make their life uncomfortable - yes... but I personally draw the line at capital punishment.

Tell you what - it'd make a good election stance though wouldn't it?
MDU

[HenryDorsetCase]

"(d)If the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one."

seems a pretty good fit to me.

well yes and no:

the unlawful object part is easy enough (presumably theres a law against dropping stuff off motorway overbridges, or recklessly endangering the public or something) but the "knows to be likely to cause death" might be the issue: rememver we are in "beyond reasonable doubt" territory, and its what the idiot knew or thought at the time thats relevant.

example being, I just wanted to drop stuff off the bridge and wasnt aiming at this car... he changed lanes..... therefore I had no intention and since I was aiming at the road not the car I had no ideal it was likely to cause death.... blah blah.

not excusing it, and I hope that the fucker is shanked in prison, but it seems unlikely.

[vifferman]

Hard labour - yes, make their life uncomfortable - yes... but I personally draw the line at capital punishment.
You'll note that I deleted that post immediately after posting it.
I wanted to say something about justice, but realised I don't have the answer to "what is just?".

[mstriumph]

Should the punishment fit the crime?

... or should the punishment fit the criminal?

Should motivation [as in "i had a horrible childhood"] be a deciding factor in guilt?

... or should only the consequence [as in "someone is dead because of what i did"] of the crime be considered relevant?

These questions are already answered in legislation --- but has the moral dimension been properly addressed?

i'd have to vote 'no' on that as i think the law has little to do with either fairness or justice .......... from the sound of some of these posts i'm not alone [much good that it does]

[Lou Girardin]

I'd be all in favour of capital punishment, if they could guarantee no mistakes.

[SPman]

How many of you out there did dumb shit when you were 13-14?
Not that dumb, maybe, but probably most of us did.
Young guys do dumb shit and, when they've got no real firm role models to ameliorate and guide their behaviour, constant bullshit video games, media etc., this is the inevitable tragic outcome!
Justice!
Revenge is more like what is being bandied about here!
Righteous idignation and revenge, disguised as howls for justice, by people who should know better.
If it was my son - I would be PISSED, but, until I know the background of the whole sorry situation, I'm holding back the vitriol. Like Bush going into Iraq - knee jerk reactions in these circumstances are normally fully counter productive - better to see if,in time, some good can come of the whole sorry situation!

[Ixion]

well yes and no:

the unlawful object part is easy enough (presumably theres a law against dropping stuff off motorway overbridges, or recklessly endangering the public or something) but the "knows to be likely to cause death" might be the issue: rememver we are in "beyond reasonable doubt" territory, and its what the idiot knew or thought at the time thats relevant.

example being, I just wanted to drop stuff off the bridge and wasnt aiming at this car... he changed lanes..... therefore I had no intention and since I was aiming at the road not the car I had no ideal it was likely to cause death.... blah blah.

not excusing it, and I hope that the fucker is shanked in prison, but it seems unlikely.


All those excuses are excluded by the phrase "though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one"

So even if the culprit says "I did not want to kill anyone I just wanted to drop concrete" ; at 14 he must know that such action "is likely to cause death" , and is therefore liable for murder even though "he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one"

I wouldn't hold my breath on a NZ court having the balls to go through with it though.

[mstriumph]

How many of you out there did dumb shit when you were 13-14?
Not that dumb, maybe, but probably most of us did.
Young guys do dumb shit and, when they've got no real firm role models to ameliorate and guide their behaviour, constant bullshit video games, media etc., this is the inevitable tragic outcome!
Justice!
Revenge is more like what is being bandied about here!
Righteous idignation and revenge, disguised as howls for justice, by people who should know better.
If it was my son - I would be PISSED, but, until I know the background of the whole sorry situation, I'm holding back the vitriol. Like Bush going into Iraq - knee jerk reactions in these circumstances are normally fully counter productive - better to see if,in time, some good can come of the whole sorry situation!
:o ... i'm STILL doing dumb shit ........ only accidental that i never killed anybody

[SPORK]

Kind of a point, but at 14 he wouldn't have been thinking far enough ahead to thnk about someone dying. His main thought was, "Wouldn't it be cool if we hit a car?"

Not excusing it, but the 14 year old male brain is a messed up place. If he's had no distinct, constant, lifelong instruction in consequences for his own actions his basic mindset doesn't equate stuff that he does to other people as being "wrong", or that stupidity can be fatal.
I 100% disagree with this. Being 14 less than 6 months ago, I will tell you right now that there is no way in hell he did that without knowing he could seriously injure someone.

I'm with whoever said mob justice.

[RiderInBlack]

OK, the fu*ker really pisses me off. Would love to have the stocks back so he could be publicly humiliated. Hope he does sometime and the guilt of what he has done haunts him for the rest of his life.

But, just to play Devil's advocate here,

How many of us here have acted in such a way as to endanger the lives of others?

Before you answer this, think on how other people may view the way we ride or drive,

Then those of you without "sin" (so to speak) can throw the first stone.

[James Deuce]

I 100% disagree with this. Being 14 less than 6 months ago, I will tell you right now that there is no way in hell he did that without knowing he could seriously injure someone.

I'm with whoever said mob justice.

Yes, but you are unusual in that you can spell, type, take crap from people 14 times older than you, all of whihc points to an extraordinary 15 year old, rather than the average dumb 14 year old, that I know I was myself. Not everyone is the same, not everyone hits developmental milestones at the same time. As I said it isn't an excuse but I really don't think you actually have the experience of a broad range teenage boys, from all parts of the social strata.

I'm an a Drum teacher, currently having an enforced sabbatical, and I've studied develpomental psych. I know a bit more about what makes 11-15 year old boys tick than you'd imagine.

The whole thing makes me sad, but the vigilante-ism displayed by some people here is a bit harsh, particularly in light of the fact that I socialise with the biggest bunch of hardened crims in NZ society - recidivist speeders. I'm not perfect and I exceed common sense limits from time to time. But I don;t understand a mind set that says it's OK to selectively break some of our laws, and then demand the death penalty for stupidity, when we all indulge in it ourselves.

[WINJA]

I'd be all in favour of capital punishment, if they could guarantee no mistakes.
14 OR NOT I THINK HE DESERVES DEATH , ITS BULLSHIT ABOUT 14 YO NOT UNDERSTANDING CAUSE AND EFFECT , THIS COUNTRYS TO SOFT AND WE SHOULD ADOPT A POLICY OF ANYONE OF ANY INTELIGENCE AND ANY AGE SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
IM SO SAD FOR THAT GUY AND HIS FAMILY .
WHO REMEMBERS THAT STH AUCK COP WHO GOT DONE FOR ASSAULTING THOSE LITTLE GANGSTER CUNTS , IMAGINE IF THEY LET HIM SORT OUT THESE SHITS THROWING ROCKS AT CARS OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS HIS WAY , IT PROLLY WOULDNT COME TO THIS, WHO CARES IF THAT COP SLAPS SOME KIDS AROUND THE COMMUNITY AND HIS COLEAGUES SHOULD OF SUPPORTED HIM

[Beemer]

Where's the Mitre 10 burglary protector when you need him? (The one who obviously knows how to deal with teenagers committing crimes!)

I'd have to say that virtually all of the 14 year-olds I've met would know the consequence of their actions. They may not realise just how serious the consequences may be, but they would have a damned good idea of the outcome. Where did they get the idea from? In the news years ago an idiot in Karori was throwing marbles at passing cars - every window smashed. A $2 coin thrown at a police car at the Basin Reserve during a fundraising cricket match shattered its windscreen. I bet this kid has thrown rocks through windows before - either to get back at a neighbour or to do over the local dairy, so I guarantee he knew that whatever he dropped that concrete block on would be smashed beyond repair.

[James Deuce]

Where's the Mitre 10 burglary protector when you need him? (The one who obviously knows how to deal with teenagers committing crimes!)

I'd have to say that virtually all of the 14 year-olds I've met would know the consequence of their actions. They may not realise just how serious the consequences may be, but they would have a damned good idea of the outcome. Where did they get the idea from? In the news years ago an idiot in Karori was throwing marbles at passing cars - every window smashed. A $2 coin thrown at a police car at the Basin Reserve during a fundraising cricket match shattered its windscreen. I bet this kid has thrown rocks through windows before - either to get back at a neighbour or to do over the local dairy, so I guarantee he knew that whatever he dropped that concrete block on would be smashed beyond repair.

That's what I said - but I guarantee that he wouldn't have thought that he would kill someone inside the car.

[SPORK]

Yes, but you are unusual in that you can spell, type, take crap from people 14 times older than you, all of which points to an extraordinary 15 year old, rather than the average dumb 14 year old, that I know I was myself. Not everyone is the same, not everyone hits developmental milestones at the same time. As I said it isn't an excuse but I really don't think you actually have the experience of a broad range teenage boys, from all parts of the social strata.

Have you heard of Upper Hutt College? Boganville Central. That's where I go to school. Every third person's smoking dope or something harder. I usually get threatend with violence once every few days. :chase:

Finally, a use for that emoticon. Anyways, while I agree that most 14ers have the mental capacity and forethought of a garden slug, they would know at least that dropping a heavy rock or whatever from a bridge would have dire consequences.

Peace out :sherlock:

[SlashWylde]

You know what? I want to hear from this kid. I want a formal written statement publicised explaining what he was doing, why and what he thought the consequenses would be - along with a genuine apology.

Now I'm not suggesting this will "make things better" or should serve to reduce his sentence, no way, a man is dead because of this. But what we never seem to get as a society in cases like this, is a clear statement from the perpetrator as to WHY.

I think this would be part of the closure and moving-on process for people round the country. Obviously it won't do much if anything for Mr Currie's family but as long as the information wasn't malicious it could be beneficial.

There's a lot of talk in this forumn and around water coolers but none of us know why or can relate to what went on in his mind.

Theres a big problem in this country with increasingly younger people going around doing atrocious things but no-one knows why.

I want to hear from them and find out what we need to do to seer things right again.

[James Deuce]

Have you heard of Upper Hutt College? Boganville Central. That's where I go to school. Every third person's smoking dope or something harder. I usually get threatend with violence once every few days. :chase:

Finally, a use for that emoticon. Anyways, while I agree that most 14ers have the mental capacity and forethought of a garden slug, they would know at least that dropping a heavy rock or whatever from a bridge would have dire consequences.

Peace out :sherlock:

I've taught kids from Upper Hutt College, St Pat's Silverstream, HIBS, and Heretaunga that would definitely fall into the feckless, "I didn't know that would happen if I did that" category. On the other hand I've taught kids with greater emotional intelligence than me. Everyone is different, and unitl the circumstances are clear demanding his death is little harsh. Actually it's a little harsh full stop.

I'll bet you the 20 year old's Dad doesn;t want the 14 year old dead. He knows what that feels like and won;t be wanting to inflict that on anyone. I like the idea of forcing him to attend the funeral, with the family's permission. That would be medicine of the right nature, followed by whatever punishment is decreed for 14 year old murderer's, provided their is enough evidence to convict him of murder. You can bet that it is unlikely that the Police would even consider a murder charge if they didn't have enough evidence to support a trial.

[RiderInBlack]

Looks like they are going to try him for murder. It was on a news update on TV3. Will be more on it on Nightline.

[SlowHand]

I think the kid going to the funerals good. Along with seeing the 20year old's corpes and police accident file - all with the families permission of course.

Im 20, and my brothers 18. I've been around a few kids 13-15 age group, generally supervising etc. So thinking at about a 14year old probably under peer pressure's level, I think the kid knew that it "could" kill someone, but maybe in the heat of the moment didnt think far enough that HE could do it.

Yes, it is absolutely stupid, and that's not an excuse to get out of whatever the law decides on. Everything should be done so what he did hammers home.

Here's another thing - at 15 you can get a driver's license. Now, I got my learners on my birthday (albeit for a car), so can't comment on that it should be raised, but perhaps the mental capabilities should be part of the test?

[oldrider]

So far I see three positives that have come out of this tragic incident.

1. the Police response was swift and effective.

2. The public responded effectively to the call for help.

3. The culprit is no longer at large.

Congratulations to the police and the public for a job well done.

I anxiously await the performance of the justice system in the next phase of this case. Will the consequence be equal to the scale of the crime?
Will the collective mind of the community be satisfied with the outcome?

We are the owners of the process therefore we must take ownership and accept accountability for the result. It will be interesting. Cheers John.

[Dadpole]

I can smell from here the child behaviour specialists and general apologists gathering for the court case. "peer pressure - did not know - culturally oppressed - possessed by the devil etc" There is an industry in standing up for kids like this.
They don't think of consequences when they do these things because they are constantly told that they are not at fault for anything. I taught "at risk" (such a nice phrase) 14 to 16 year olds for 2 years, and they do not care. The depressing thing is that some of them have no concept of being alive at 20. If they believe they have no future then they will do anything now.
With luck, this specimen will be alive at 20 - and still behind bars.

PS: Quit the job when I realised that there was more to life than hoping to get through the day without killing one of the sods. :ar15:

[MikeL]

Death penalty for 14-year olds? Mob justice? An eye for an eye?
Are you people real?

A schoolboy, with whatever reason, motivation, with whatever forethought, or lack of thought, kills an innocent stranger, and all you want is revenge.

It's like the American war on terrorism. Punish the bastards. Kill, interdict, destroy. Above all, make a distinction. Them and us. Good or evil. Never ask how we may have contributed to turning them into such a terrible foe.

Well, this kid who did this terrible thing must be evil. He can't be one of us. He's not part of society. We have to distance ourselves from him. Nothing in the way we have chosen to organize our society has had anything to do with this tragedy.

Very profound reasoning here. About on a level with your average 14 year old...

[spudchucka]

You can bet that it is unlikely that the Police would even consider a murder charge if they didn't have enough evidence to support a trial.
Basically by proving murder they cover off manslaughter as an alternative. In other words they will try to get a conviction for murder in the knowledge that manslaughter will be proven anyway.

[Pixie]

Yeah it was 'lucky' 'cos it 'only' killed the driver - sheesh!! :mad:

I guess it could have hit the roof, knocked it onto the driver head and cause him to swerve and hit a concrete bridge abutment and all four occupants be killed, I suppose that would have been 'unlucky' eh??? :weird:
That could have happened anyway,apparently the drivers head wasn't in good shape,it's a wonder the rock didn't take out the rear passenger as well :oi-grr:

[Pixie]

So far I see three positives that have come out of this tragic incident.

1. the Police response was swift and effective.

2. The public responded effectively to the call for help.

3. The culprit is no longer at large.

Congratulations to the police and the public for a job well done.

I anxiously await the performance of the justice system in the next phase of this case. Will the consequence be equal to the scale of the crime?
Will the collective mind of the community be satisfied with the outcome?

We are the owners of the process therefore we must take ownership and accept accountability for the result. It will be interesting. Cheers John.
Reading between the lines it wasn't a difficult investigation;a witness described a weed who struggled with an 8Kg rock (play station generation),
they went to the nearest school,Fuckwits had boasted of what they did,Gotcha!

[Pixie]

There's a lot of talk in this forumn and around water coolers but none of us know why or can relate to what went on in his mind.

.
Your assuming he has a functioning brain

[Al]

I say the little arse-wipe must go to jail... have his arse reamed by all the nasties... serve him right too!

Al