Intermediate bike advice?

[ivelramit]

Hi all,

This is my first post, so take it easy on me. :)

I've been riding for roughly a year and have put about 7,000 km into my little VTR250, most of it during daily commute. I just took my restricted test, so it's going to be another 18 months before I can get a 'proper' bike (I'm now thinking an SV650). Anyway, I have started to look into possibly getting something in between for the meantime: most likely a Kawasaki ER500 or a Suzuki GS500. I know these bikes tend to get mixed reviews and are labelled boring and whatnot, but would they be a good step-up bike from a 250? I mean would they prepare me well for a bigger bike? Or should I just not bother and keep riding my VTR (which I do love, by the way) all the way to the 650? How are service costs for the 500 bikes? Anything else I should think about? Thanks!

[jellywrestler]

Hi all,

This is my first post, so take it easy on me. :)

I've been riding for roughly a year and have put about 7,000 km into my little VTR250, most of it during daily commute. I just took my restricted test, so it's going to be another 18 months before I can get a 'proper' bike (I'm now thinking an SV650). Anyway, I have started to look into possibly getting something in between for the meantime: most likely a Kawasaki ER500 or a Suzuki GS500. I know these bikes tend to get mixed reviews and are labelled boring and whatnot, but would they be a good step-up bike from a 250? I mean would they prepare me well for a bigger bike? Or should I just not bother and keep riding my VTR (which I do love, by the way) all the way to the 650? How are service costs for the 500 bikes? Anything else I should think about? Thanks!

honda bros either 400 or 650, great bikes and i reckon way betterer than the kawi or suzi
got one in the hutt you can have a sit on to see what you think if you like

[ivelramit]

honda bros either 400 or 650, great bikes and i reckon way betterer than the kawi or suzi
got one in the hutt you can have a sit on to see what you think if you like

Thanks. I've heard good things about the BROS, but my concern is that it's an older model and the ones I've seen for sale have at least 40,000-50,000 kms on them. I think I'd prefer something less used (in the 10,000-15,000 km range) which is why I looked at ER and the GS.

[Ender EnZed]

They're not much of a step up but they won't cost any more to run. If you've got the money to spare and you're after the excitement of buying something new then go for it, if you stick with your VTR you won't be missing much though.

They'll prepare for a bigger bike in the sense that they have a little more power (not much), are a little bit heavier and a little bit physically bigger.

[Smifffy]

I vote: Stick with the VTR. They're a good bike. It's incredible the amount of skill that can be learned on a smaller bike. After 18 more months on it you'll be a force to be reckoned with on something like an SV650. Why lose more money on the way through?

[jellywrestler]

Thanks. I've heard good things about the BROS, but my concern is that it's an older model and the ones I've seen for sale have at least 40,000-50,000 kms on them. I think I'd prefer something less used (in the 10,000-15,000 km range) which is why I looked at ER and the GS.

mileage is one thing, how it is done is another ie maintained etc and often higher lielage bikes have mainly done longer trips, the Bros is water cooled and will keep on going for a long time, there are low mileage ones out there in good nick still

[BuzzardNZ]

Regarding the Bros, the ultimate gay honda ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bros

[ivelramit]

Regarding the Bros, the ultimate gay honda ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bros

Haha, I never thought of that one! Nevertheless, I do not rule out considering a bros. :) But it does seem like it's perhaps easier to find a Kawasaki or a Suzuki in good condition.

For those of you who say it's not much of a step-up: on paper, the 500 bikes have about twice the HP and twice the torque than my VTR. That's why I originally thought they could be a good option for an intermediate bike. Or is that not the right way to think about this? Anyway, thanks for the advice, everyone!

[Banditbandit]

Don't go with the Suzuki GS500 ... slow and lumbering .. and mechanics tell me they break often ...

Maybe have a look at a Bandit 600 ... Something like this

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/tourers/auction-624074528.htm

[Ender EnZed]

Maybe have a look at a Bandit 600 ... Something like this

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/tourers/auction-624074528.htm

Not even close to LAMS legal.

[Ender EnZed]

For those of you who say it's not much of a step-up: on paper, the 500 bikes have about twice the HP and twice the torque than my VTR. That's why I originally thought they could be a good option for an intermediate bike. Or is that not the right way to think about this? Anyway, thanks for the advice, everyone!

They are faster and they are a good intermediate bike. They're just not much faster, certainly not twice as fast. More like 15%.

[Banditbandit]

Not even close to LAMS legal.

Oh .. yeah .. sorry ... us older ones are inclined to forget about the new licence requirements.

[Grashopper]

My Spada is my first step up, which is pretty much what you already have in your vtr. Next step up might possibly be the KTM Duke 390 :D

[george formby]

My Spada is my first step up, which is pretty much what you already have in your vtr. Next step up might possibly be the KTM Duke 390 :D

Here ya go. Cat, pigeons etc.

I'm of a school of thought that the more varied your riding experience the betterer you become as a rider so summit like the KTM though not a bigger bike as such is a very different set of wheels.
Was gonna ask why your looking specifically at road bikes but I think Grashopper's post will get that discussion rolling.

[ivelramit]

Here ya go. Cat, pigeons etc.

I'm of a school of thought that the more varied your riding experience the betterer you become as a rider so summit like the KTM though not a bigger bike as such is a very different set of wheels.
Was gonna ask why your looking specifically at road bikes but I think Grashopper's post will get that discussion rolling.

That may be true, and I admit I didn't consider other types of bikes. I guess I just felt that for the type of riding I do, a (not very sporty) road bike was most appropriate... The Duke does indeed look like a sweet set of wheels. However, it is not an option for me right now for the same reason a CBR500 is not an option: it's a new model so it's very pricey. Don't want to spend a whole lot of money on a bike I'm planning to keep for only a year or so!

[george formby]

I'm not getting a KTM for the same reason. No moola.
I guess you need to add resale value into your decision making, too.

[superjackal]

Hi all,

This is my first post, so take it easy on me. :)

I've been riding for roughly a year and have put about 7,000 km into my little VTR250, most of it during daily commute. I just took my restricted test, so it's going to be another 18 months before I can get a 'proper' bike (I'm now thinking an SV650). Anyway, I have started to look into possibly getting something in between for the meantime: most likely a Kawasaki ER500 or a Suzuki GS500. I know these bikes tend to get mixed reviews and are labelled boring and whatnot, but would they be a good step-up bike from a 250? I mean would they prepare me well for a bigger bike? Or should I just not bother and keep riding my VTR (which I do love, by the way) all the way to the 650? How are service costs for the 500 bikes? Anything else I should think about? Thanks!

I went through exactly the same scenario recently. I tried a lot of bikes including your VTR 250. I ended up coming down to a choice between an ER-5 and a GS500. An ER-5 came up for sale at the right price. I think people who say it's not a big step up are talking out their a$$ and forgetting what it's like to be a learner. Both the GS500 and ER-5 are great bikes and have more than enough power for me - and I like to go fast. The ER-5 will easily surge up to 170 and feels pretty good there (racetrack). I thought I'd interim it on the ER-5 and then go for my dream Striple this March, but to be honest the ER-5 is more than fast enough for my limited experience. It's heavier but in a good way. My only gripe is that the brakes could be better.

The GS500s felt a touch smoother than the ER-5s I test rode. But I'm glad I got the bike I did.

I don't find it boring at all, but some flash Harry with a 1000cc 200hp beast might.

Happy hunting!

(I've reviewed my experience upgrading from a 250 to a 500 in several old posts).

[george formby]

I went through exactly the same scenario recently. I tried a lot of bikes including your VTR 250. I ended up coming down to a choice between an ER-5 and a GS500. An ER-5 came up for sale at the right price. I think people who say it's not a big step up are talking out their a$$ and forgetting what it's like to be a learner. Both the GS500 and ER-5 are great bikes and have more than enough power for me - and I like to go fast. The ER-5 will easily surge up to 170 and feels pretty good there (racetrack). I thought I'd interim it on the ER-5 and then go for my dream Striple this March, but to be honest the ER-5 is more than fast enough for my limited experience. It's heavier but in a good way. My only gripe is that the brakes could be better.

The GS500s felt a touch smoother than the ER-5s I test rode. But I'm glad I got the bike I did.

I don't find it boring at all, but some flash Harry with a 1000cc 200hp beast might.

Happy hunting!

(I've reviewed my experience upgrading from a 250 to a 500 in several old posts).


Well said & very pertinent. My 8fiddly struggles to do 170 kmh but has no probs making that quick, planned, overtake when I'm stuck behind a slow vehicle. What more do you want on the road?
Oh, it's got crap brakes, too.
Horses for courses. Op, go ride some bikes.

[ivelramit]

I went through exactly the same scenario recently. I tried a lot of bikes including your VTR 250. I ended up coming down to a choice between an ER-5 and a GS500. An ER-5 came up for sale at the right price. I think people who say it's not a big step up are talking out their a$$ and forgetting what it's like to be a learner. Both the GS500 and ER-5 are great bikes and have more than enough power for me - and I like to go fast. The ER-5 will easily surge up to 170 and feels pretty good there (racetrack). I thought I'd interim it on the ER-5 and then go for my dream Striple this March, but to be honest the ER-5 is more than fast enough for my limited experience. It's heavier but in a good way. My only gripe is that the brakes could be better.

The GS500s felt a touch smoother than the ER-5s I test rode. But I'm glad I got the bike I did.

I don't find it boring at all, but some flash Harry with a 1000cc 200hp beast might.

Happy hunting!

(I've reviewed my experience upgrading from a 250 to a 500 in several old posts).

Awesome, very useful info! Cheers!

[mossy1200]

Only the bros 400 is lams approved.

The revere 600 and 650 is on the list which is a slightly touring version with lower pegs and higher bars. I woukld say it must be a little heavier to have made the list.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/tourers/auction-599521700.htm

I had one for a while and did it up then sold it a few months later. They are a good bike and easy to throw around. Good value bike. I think the trade me one is a little over priced. About 2800-3200 would be a better figure.

Look at this they still made them in 2001 and in full touring version.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/cruiser/auction-391304635.htm

[Ender EnZed]

I went through exactly the same scenario recently. I tried a lot of bikes including your VTR 250. I ended up coming down to a choice between an ER-5 and a GS500. An ER-5 came up for sale at the right price. I think people who say it's not a big step up are talking out their a$$ and forgetting what it's like to be a learner. Both the GS500 and ER-5 are great bikes and have more than enough power for me - and I like to go fast. The ER-5 will easily surge up to 170 and feels pretty good there (racetrack). I thought I'd interim it on the ER-5 and then go for my dream Striple this March, but to be honest the ER-5 is more than fast enough for my limited experience. It's heavier but in a good way. My only gripe is that the brakes could be better.

The GS500s felt a touch smoother than the ER-5s I test rode. But I'm glad I got the bike I did.

I don't find it boring at all, but some flash Harry with a 1000cc 200hp beast might.

Happy hunting!

(I've reviewed my experience upgrading from a 250 to a 500 in several old posts).

It's very relevant to note that you upgraded from a GN250 though.

His VTR250 is already closer in performance to your ER5 than it is to a GN.

[Smifffy]

Don't want to spend a whole lot of money on a bike I'm planning to keep for only a year or so!

Keep the VTR...

[ivelramit]

Ok, so I have taken two bikes for a test ride.

Ninja 300 (the store didn't have anything bigger & LAMS approved and talked me into trying it, s I said why not): not much different to the 250. In fact, I probably prefer my VTR to the EX300...
Kawi ER500: after reading the reviews, I had fairly low expectations and was actually pleasantly surprised. It did feel like a step up and definitely had quite a bit more power than the VTR. So my impression was that it could perhaps be a good intermediate step between the 250 and something bigger...

[george formby]

Ok, so I have taken two bikes for a test ride.

Ninja 300 (the store didn't have anything bigger & LAMS approved and talked me into trying it, s I said why not): not much different to the 250. In fact, I probably prefer my VTR to the EX300...
Kawi ER500: after reading the reviews, I had fairly low expectations and was actually pleasantly surprised. It did feel like a step up and definitely had quite a bit more power than the VTR. So my impression was that it could perhaps be a good intermediate step between the 250 and something bigger...

Keep on test riding. For about a year or so. Or as long as you can get away with it.

In the grand scheme of things do you need or want another bike for the next year or 18 months? I'm guessing your selling the VTR for funds, what will you get for it's replacement down the road if you want to step up again so soon? What kind of riding lies ahead? Etcetera.

It's a heart v head decision. Figure out where your at in life & make decisions from there.

Lots of appropriate bikes available but do they tick your boxes? Really, really?

[ivelramit]

Keep on test riding. For about a year or so. Or as long as you can get away with it.

In the grand scheme of things do you need or want another bike for the next year or 18 months? I'm guessing your selling the VTR for funds, what will you get for it's replacement down the road if you want to step up again so soon? What kind of riding lies ahead? Etcetera.

It's a heart v head decision. Figure out where your at in life & make decisions from there.

Lots of appropriate bikes available but do they tick your boxes? Really, really?

Do I need another bike? Of course not. Need is a pretty strong word. (Do any of us really need a bike?)

So I think the question is whether I want one. And that, in my mind, comes down to my original question... If the experience I can acquire on a 500cc bike makes me a safer rider down the road (i.e. better prepared for the next upgrade, say to a 650) then yes, I'd like to entertain the idea.

Anyway, thanks again everyone for posing questions and giving your opinion - gives me stuff to think about!

[mossy1200]

I think I have only ever had 2 bikes for longer than 18months even when buying new ones.

Your choice. Once bikes get below 4k they don't devalue very quickly if looked after so if you buy carefully getting a bike for 18months shouldn't be a problem. 18months equals 2 summers.

[superjackal]

It's very relevant to note that you upgraded from a GN250 though.

His VTR250 is already closer in performance to your ER5 than it is to a GN.

True, but the ER-5 has nearly 20 ponies more (that's a GN + a VTR250) and much more torque and flexibility. Especially at highway speeds. 250s are town bikes IMHO.

I think he should upgrade as fast as he can. Upgrading calmed all my "I want, I want, I wants...." We all think we're better riders than we are, but I've taken a pretty cold hard look at where my skills are. Just last night I came home, tooted the horn for my daughter, rode onto the grass, braked and, whoops, the front tyre lost all grip and the bike ended up on it's side. Luckily on grass so absolutely no damage. But another wake-up call....

He right on the money IMO with the GS500 and ER-5. If I had more money I'd look at the new Honda 500. Nice bike that. But after the grass episode yesterday I'm not spending $10K on something I will very p-r-o-b-a-b-l-y drop....

[Smifffy]

True, but the ER-5 has nearly 20 ponies more (that's a GN + a VTR250) and much more torque and flexibility. Especially at highway speeds. 250s are town bikes IMHO.

I think he should upgrade as fast as he can. Upgrading calmed all my "I want, I want, I wants...." We all think we're better riders than we are, but I've taken a pretty cold hard look at where my skills are. Just last night I came home, tooted the horn for my daughter, rode onto the grass, braked and, whoops, the front tyre lost all grip and the bike ended up on it's side. Luckily on grass so absolutely no damage. But another wake-up call....

He right on the money IMO with the GS500 and ER-5. If I had more money I'd look at the new Honda 500. Nice bike that. But after the grass episode yesterday I'm not spending $10K on something I will very p-r-o-b-a-b-l-y drop....

Sticking with a 250 allows one to really get skills bedded in and learn these kinds of lessons so that when one is eventually properly ready for a bigger bike, they aren't in the mindset that they will probably drop it.

Perfect example of why I suggest he hangs on the VTR for now.

[BuzzardNZ]

Sticking with a 250 allows one to really get skills bedded in and learn these kinds of lessons so that when one is eventually properly ready for a bigger bike, they aren't in the mindset that they will probably drop it.

Perfect example of why I suggest he hangs on the VTR for now.

+1 I couldn't agree more.

[superjackal]

Sticking with a 250 allows one to really get skills bedded in and learn these kinds of lessons so that when one is eventually properly ready for a bigger bike, they aren't in the mindset that they will probably drop it.

Perfect example of why I suggest he hangs on the VTR for now.

Anyone can drop their bike at any skill level. Just take a look at Turners Auctions under damaged bikes.

He's done a year on a 250, which was more than enough for me. He's getting frustrated with it which means it's time for another step. A rider with 12 months and 7000kms experience should be able to handle a GS/ER. You're right - nothing wrong with the VTR - except he doesn't want it anymore. He wants a bigger bike and a ER-5 or GS500 is great, fun next step - hence his post.

[superjackal]

Hi all,

This is my first post, so take it easy on me. :)

I've been riding for roughly a year and have put about 7,000 km into my little VTR250, most of it during daily commute. I just took my restricted test, so it's going to be another 18 months before I can get a 'proper' bike (I'm now thinking an SV650). Anyway, I have started to look into possibly getting something in between for the meantime: most likely a Kawasaki ER500 or a Suzuki GS500. I know these bikes tend to get mixed reviews and are labelled boring and whatnot, but would they be a good step-up bike from a 250? I mean would they prepare me well for a bigger bike? Or should I just not bother and keep riding my VTR (which I do love, by the way) all the way to the 650? How are service costs for the 500 bikes? Anything else I should think about? Thanks!

Oh, and to answer your question, I just had my ER-5 serviced and it cost $240.

[BuzzardNZ]

He's done a year on a 250, which was more than enough for me. He's getting frustrated with it which means it's time for another step. A rider with 12 months and 7000kms experience should be able to handle a GS/ER. You're right - nothing wrong with the VTR - except he doesn't want it anymore. He wants a bigger bike and a ER-5 or GS500 is great, fun next step - hence his post.

Sounds like he really wants an SV650. I think he should just save his $ and do his learners/restricted time on the VTR ( a bloody good bike in my opinion ) and then get the bike he actually wants as opposed to something with a tad more HP to give him some 'big bike' experience. Either way, his call at the end of the day. That's just how I'd do it.

[Grashopper]

I think the more bikes you use as step ups, the more experience you get and the more often you get the 'yay, a new bike and a bit more power' feeling :D. You would miss out on so much fun if you step from a 250 directly to a 'big bike'. And it can be quite dangerous too.

The step up bikes don't have to be new and expensive. An ER-5 really doesn't cost the world anyway. For example, this one would go for $2000: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/158711-1999-ER5-LAMS-approved

[superjackal]

I think the more bikes you use as step ups, the more experience you get and the more often you get the 'yay, a new bike and a bit more power' feeling :D. You would miss out on so much fun if you step from a 250 directly to a 'big bike'. And it can be quite dangerous too.

The step up bikes don't have to be new and expensive. An ER-5 really doesn't cost the world anyway. For example, this one would go for $2000: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/158711-1999-ER5-LAMS-approved

Good post. Must say though, that while I had a 250 I wanted nothing more than to upgrade. After upgrading that desire went away and hasn't come back yet.

[Grashopper]

Good post. Must say though, that while I had a 250 I wanted nothing more than to upgrade. After upgrading that desire went away and hasn't come back yet.

Lol, that was because you didn't have just any 250. You had a GN :D
His VTR has about twice the power of a GN250...

[BuzzardNZ]

Good post. Must say though, that while I had a 250 I wanted nothing more than to upgrade. After upgrading that desire went away and hasn't come back yet.

Sounds like maybe you moved up too quickly if you keep dropping your 500. Just saying...

[Glowerss]

I think the more bikes you use as step ups, the more experience you get and the more often you get the 'yay, a new bike and a bit more power' feeling :D. You would miss out on so much fun if you step from a 250 directly to a 'big bike'. And it can be quite dangerous too.

The step up bikes don't have to be new and expensive. An ER-5 really doesn't cost the world anyway. For example, this one would go for $2000: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/158711-1999-ER5-LAMS-approved

Honestly, the whole "intermediate" bike thing really depends on the individual.

I went from a 250 Hornet which realistically has 30-35hp (and creates no power to speak of under 8k rpm) to a VFR800 which is some 100+HP and generates power EVERYWHERE. The VFR also has something like 40+KG on the hornet. My first time throwing a leg over anything more than 40hp, I rode it back from Hastings to Auckland on a rainy as hell Sunday. And I'm a pretty average rider at best. Maybe the VFR is just an exceptionally well behaved bike, but at no point did I really feel like I was in over my head.

I reckon that if somebody has had the same 250 for 2 years and can really really ride the wheels off the thing, they'd be OK on just about anything.

The question really is, do you want a new bike? And do you want a LAMS bike, or do you really want the 650? If it's the 650, just keep saving your pennies as the new bike feeling will fade, and you'll be in the same situation.

[nzspokes]

but at no point did I really feel like I was in over my head.



Dont worry, you will be. Ive dropped back to 110hp and can still catch me out.

[ivelramit]

Haha, this turned out a pretty good discussion. Exactly what I was looking for. I think I am leaning toward the (gradual) upgrade - but not at all costs, only if I can find a good deal and not lose a lot of money on it. (BTW, the VTR would probably stay in the family.)

[Ender EnZed]

I think the more bikes you use as step ups, the more experience you get and the more often you get the 'yay, a new bike and a bit more power' feeling :D.[/url]

+1000

Every upgrade is the biggest giggle. If it's the fastest bike you've ever ridden it's probably going to feel like a fucking rocket ship. Why would you deprive yourself of that sensation (which is pretty much the best ever)? 10 to 30 to 60 to 75 to 100 to 120 to 140 to 150 to 175 is about how it went for me and for every step up, at the time, each was singularly the greatest sensation of power and acceleration I'd experienced. It was fucking hot.

Even if you're the most skilled and sensible rider in the universe, if you go from a 30ish hp 250 to a 150<hp superbike for the sake of a brief shot of noncomprehending terror you are going to be missing out on so much dopamine and other happy chemicals in the good part of your brain vs. if you'd taken a series of steps.

If you understand what's going on, the only reason to step up quickly is if you're a) posturing, b) delusional or c) a genuine outlier with regard to your skill and brain chemistry (extremely unlikely; see a) and b)).

[george formby]

Back in the day, far, far away, I went from a KMX 125cc 2t trail bike to a GT750 4t Kawasaki. Put both of them through hedges. The 750 once, the 125 most weekends. They were first & second owned bikes. Had loads of bikes since.

Sat here now with a travel rug over my legs, my tartan woolie booties on & a cup of milo, virtually cold, with skin on it beside me, all I really want is a 250 2t again. Not a LAMS approved one. Oh, and a trials bike. Funny things bikes. Never had a bad one.

May your next bike be your hearts desire OP.

[superjackal]

Sounds like maybe you moved up too quickly if you keep dropping your 500. Just saying...

Not biting, Troll.

[The Reibz]

I went from a 250 straight to a 1000. Save your coin and get the bike you want. I wasn't one to fuck around with gradual upgrades, that shit in my opinion is a waste of time and money. If you can ride the shit out of a 250 and trust your right wrist, then you can ride anything.

[baffa]

You should pick what you actually want.
If you actually WANT xyz bike, but cant due to licensing, so you go for DCF bike because itll do for the mean time, youve just wasted time and money. You're better sticking with what you have until you have your full.

Alternatively if you actually like the lams approved ride, and could see yourself riding it even after you have your full, that's clearly the bike for you.

As long as you have plenty of practice in all conditions, and a decent amount of common sense, I see no issue with stepping up from a 250 to something much more powerful.

I rode a VTR250 to rotorua, traded it on a CBR900RR, and rode it home a couple a years back, through traffic and all sorts, and at no point did I feel overwhelmed. In saying that though, Ive learned recently that its almost harder to adapt your riding to cruisers, than it is to step up from small hp to big hp bikes.

Jumping from a CBR1000 to a 400cc cruiser is a bit of a mindfuck. But I get to do it daily =D

[Erelyes]

I went from a 250 straight to a 1000. Save your coin and get the bike you want. I wasn't one to fuck around with gradual upgrades, that shit in my opinion is a waste of time and money. If you can ride the shit out of a 250 and trust your right wrist, then you can ride anything.

Fair opinion well said. Thing is tho, some people aren't even sure of what bike they want yet. How can one say 'Repsol fireblade, 100% the bike for me' without having ridden one for a week. I reckon one's experience is the richer for trying out different bikes (in saying that, I'm on my 2nd bike having just passed restricted with no plans to change before my full....... yet :shifty:)

And in terms of not upgrading in order to save coins - well, I think he can upgrade for next to nowt - one LAMS bike is going to depreciate much like another. Only way you'll really lose out $$$ wise is if you buy/trade with a dealer (which has adantages though - got my 1st (scorpio) from a dealer, andit was the right thing for me to do at the time as I had no idea of what to look for when buying a 2nd hand bike).

I'd love to say I agree with your last comment but I'm not experienced enough to know - so will have to take your word for it and hope you're right :yes: