Overseas Police recruits.

[Lou Girardin]

Wobbie and his band of merry men are looking at recruiting more coppers from overseas, "due to the tight labour market in NZ". It strikes me a strange that they can't get unskilled people to be cops at $45,000 odd per year, but there you go.
They are thinking of removing the citizenship requirements for applicants as they did for the Pommie recruits last year and have had 3000 applications from the UK and Europe. It sounds like they've lifted the English speaking requirement too.
Mind you, yelling "Achtung, hande hoch" at a fleeing crim then shooting him when he doesn't, may get the crime rate down.
Could it be that the poor bastards over there don't know what they're getting into. Will they be able to take a case to the Employment court for misrepresentation of the position when they find out they're really tax auditors?

[Stroker Girl]

Tell me about it. A close friend of mine has been trying to join the police force for the last 6 years but has not been able to get in due to been 20 seconds too slow on the run time.

She has done personal training, got a running instructor, gone to the gym hard out but unfortunately has just not been able to make the time. She passed all other areas in the fitness test, is a qualified teacher, a black belt in Taekwon Do but these things don't seem to matter. Incidentally, you only have to do the run time once more at the training camp and after that there is no review of your fitness.

When she wrote in to query why we have such a quick time limit on our run in comparison to England and Australia (who get about another 1-1.5 minutes), she was told it is because NZ Police don't carry guns, therefore have to run faster to catch the crims! :rofl:

Makes you wonder where their priorities are when it comes to recruitment.

[Beemer]

Poor, poor buggers is all I can say! I don't envy them in the slightest.

I think the main reason they can't get enough recruits is due to the falling value of the job - years ago the majority of police officers were respected by the majority of the population, but now even little kids are brought up to 'hate pigs'. Who wants to do a job day in, day out, where you are shown a lack of respect by the general public? Sure, the money may be okay, but the job isn't exactly easy (apart from traffic patrol!), they work shifts, and they are often dealing with people who want to kill them. Hell, you get the same shit being a call centre operator and the money is not that much lower - plus the people abusing you don't know where you live and you don't have to deal with them face to face!

Nope, it's not a role I'd take on voluntarily, no matter what the salary was. As a journalist I may be viewed as the scum of the earth, but I can walk down the street without being abused (most of the time!) and I've never had anyone threaten to kill me. Oh, I tell a lie - when I was doing court reporting I once had the girlfriend of a criminal threaten to do me in if I wrote anything about her boyfriend! And I don't have to take on the assignments that don't interest me - try doing that if you're a cop!

[Beemer]

When she wrote in to query why we have such a quick time limit on our run in comparison to England and Australia (who get about another 1-1.5 minutes), she was told it is because NZ Police don't carry guns, therefore have to run faster to catch the crims! :rofl:

More likely they have to run faster to GET AWAY from the crims! Yeah, it makes you wonder what they are looking for - your friend obviously doesn't fit into any of the minority categories they need to fill - she's probably straight, white, middle class, fit, healthy, intelligent - no, I doubt she's what they are looking for! :rofl:

[ManDownUnder]

Who knows - foreign practices might start making our crims thinks twice..

*BLAM BLAM BLAM* ... "it's ok sir - he stole chewing gum from that shop over there. Now we're going to cut his hands off, and put his head on this spike for all to see.

I wonder if there is a requirement for these recruits to know the law too, or is work experience going to be enough?

[onearmedbandit]

but now even little kids are brought up to 'hate pigs'.

Think your over reacting a tad here. Some kids have always been brought up this way, but I'm sure you'll find the majority of parents don't raise their children like this. The 'off-track' ones are getting the most media attention (obviously), you just don't hear about those that respect authority.

[Lou Girardin]

Tell me about it. A close friend of mine has been trying to join the police force for the last 6 years but has not been able to get in due to been 20 seconds too slow on the run time.

She has done personal training, got a running instructor, gone to the gym hard out but unfortunately has just not been able to make the time. She passed all other areas in the fitness test, is a qualified teacher, a black belt in Taekwon Do but these things don't seem to matter. Incidentally, you only have to do the run time once more at the training camp and after that there is no review of your fitness.

When she wrote in to query why we have such a quick time limit on our run in comparison to England and Australia (who get about another 1-1.5 minutes), she was told it is because NZ Police don't carry guns, therefore have to run faster to catch the crims! :rofl:

Makes you wonder where their priorities are when it comes to recruitment.


She's sounds grossly over-qualified. Did she refuse to shag the recruiter too?

[Ixion]

Every report that i heard about the ones they recruited from the UK said they were jolly decent chaps. And good coppers.

[Beemer]

Think your over reacting a tad here. Some kids have always been brought up this way, but I'm sure you'll find the majority of parents don't raise their children like this. The 'off-track' ones are getting the most media attention (obviously), you just don't hear about those that respect authority.

I wasn't meaning EVERY kid was brought up this way, but a lot ARE. I don't know how old you are, but when I was a kid, we were taught that if you ever needed help, you approached a policeman. We were also taught that if you did anything wrong, the police would be there to nab you for it. The problem today is that so many people only see the police as enforcers, not as protectors. It's like how generations are being brought up to view being on the dole as a way of life - many are now being brought up to believe that cops are people who only exist to cramp their (thieving) style. Teachers have also been the target of this lack of respect - I would never have dreamt of talking back to a teacher even when I was in the seventh form! I was at a school recently and the principal stopped this kid to ask if he knew where a particular teacher was. "Do I look like her secretary?" was the reply - and this was from a 10 year-old!

I have no idea how the police can gain back this respect - I think it may be too late. There is a general lack of respect for anyone in authority today and it's only getting worse.

[onearmedbandit]

I'm 29yrs old, and was also taught what you were. My daughter is 6yrs old, and she already knows about police, what they will do if you're 'naughty' and that they are there to help. 95% of all other children I know believe the same. And I socialise in a reasonably diverse demographic.

I believe that it is worse than 20, maybe 10yrs ago, but there is still hope. Through better education and reinforcement things can change.

[Hoon]

Tell me about it. A close friend of mine has been trying to join the police force for the last 6 years but has not been able to get in due to been 20 seconds too slow on the run time.

Yes 11m15s I think it is for 2.4km run is pretty tough for a female!!! Considering a male soldier joining the SAS must run a 10:00!!

However 20 secs is nothing!! She could make that up with a new pair of shoes and some no-doze pills!!

[Biff]

When she wrote in to query why we have such a quick time limit on our run in comparison to England and Australia (who get about another 1-1.5 minutes),

The tests are totally different between the UK and NZ (don't know about Oz). You have to get to level 13 in the beep test in under 10 minutes in the UK if memory serves me right. And they don't carry guns either, as a general rule.

[madboy]

Through my many experiences with the police over the years (99% of them were traffic related) my very white, very respectable, very middle class parents have learned to hate the police with a passion. When you talk about out of the mouths of babes - my 6yo daughter calls them pigs. Funnily enough it wasn't me who either taught or encouraged her calling them that.

As I've stated in other threads, my feeling is that the police are on a hiding to nothing. Lets not forget human nature here - people remember the negatives, not the positives. My parents can vividly describe the police officer smashing my car windscreen with his baton while I was handcuffed on the ground underneath his mate, but do you think they can remember the last time they saw a cop doing a real public service role? Hell no.

The scum already hate the cops, and no one cares about the scum's opinions. The majority of nice middle NZers see cops for 2 reasons usually - burglaries and speeding. Most people aren't too friggin ecstatic about getting a ticket for 115km/h, nor are they too happy about cops not giving a toss about burglaries. They don't see the real work going on behind the scenes, the violent crime, frauds, etc etc that the under resourced coppers have to deal with. And there we reach the crux of the issue - direction of the resources. Who controls that? Not the beat cop, that's for sure. The pollies and senior management need a f***ing rocket up their ass. That's where the problem lies.

It's all about public perception. The pollies don't do the pigs no favours. And until then, who wants to be a pig?

[spudchucka]

Tell me about it. A close friend of mine has been trying to join the police force for the last 6 years but has not been able to get in due to been 20 seconds too slow on the run time.

She has done personal training, got a running instructor, gone to the gym hard out but unfortunately has just not been able to make the time. She passed all other areas in the fitness test, is a qualified teacher, a black belt in Taekwon Do but these things don't seem to matter. Incidentally, you only have to do the run time once more at the training camp and after that there is no review of your fitness.

When she wrote in to query why we have such a quick time limit on our run in comparison to England and Australia (who get about another 1-1.5 minutes), she was told it is because NZ Police don't carry guns, therefore have to run faster to catch the crims! :rofl:

Makes you wonder where their priorities are when it comes to recruitment.
Women have to be able to run 2.4 kms in 11 minutes and 15 seconds for men it is 10 minutes and 15 seconds. Its not that difficult to achieve. Some people have to work harder than others but I have never come across anyone that couldn't achieve the required standard if they had set their mind on it. There is no reason to lower the required standard and there is no reason to make speciall allowances for people just because they have tried really hard.

To correct you only slightly, the Physical Ability Test (PAT) is done when you apply to join, before you go to the police college and before you graduate police college. The only other times you will have to do this particular test is when you are a member of a specialist squad that requires that level of fitness, (armed offenders etc). All cops however have to pass bi-anually a Physical Competancy Test (PCT), which is different to the PAT. The PCT is more of an obstical course that the person being tested has to complete within a certain time, depending upon their age. Having a current PCT is considered a performance appraisal matter, if you don't remain current then you won't get pay rises when they are due etc.

Some overseas jurisdictions have pathetic fitness standards, 1.5 miles in 14 minutes 30 seconds. Thats a joke, you could bloody near walk it in that time. But I guess when the only people applying are fat arsed hamburger eating seppos you don't have a choice but to lower your standards. I hope it never happens here.

[spudchucka]

She's sounds grossly over-qualified. Did she refuse to shag the recruiter too?
Your snipes are getting somewhat less suptle as time goes by.

[Jeremy]

Yes 11m15s I think it is for 2.4km run is pretty tough for a female!!! Considering a male soldier joining the SAS must run a 10:00!!

However 20 secs is nothing!! She could make that up with a new pair of shoes and some no-doze pills!!

(2.4 km) / (10 minutes) = 14.4 km/h
Average speed of someone who is fit is about 20km/h


SAS don't have minimum times.

I've got a mate in the army, and the SAS are so fast that carrying more gear than them managed to lap them during a bush training run.

[Da Bird]

... and have had 3000 applications from the UK and Europe.

No, it was 3000 expressions of interest and up to 100 recruits from overseas to be trained in the coming year. If it was 3000 applications, imagine how many radar detectors you would have on your dash Lou....

B.C

[Da Bird]

Tell me about it. A close friend of mine has been trying to join the police force for the last 6 years but has not been able to get in due to been 20 seconds too slow on the run time.

There has to be something seriously wrong if she can't knock 20 seconds off in 6 years...

[Da Bird]

Sure, the money may be okay, but the job isn't exactly easy (apart from traffic patrol!), they work shifts, and they are often dealing with people who want to kill them.

I work shifts and people sometimes want to kill me too... stopping vehicles is inherently dangerous... you never know if you are going to have to deal with Joe Average or a gang member, so please don't jump on the bandwagon and say traffic patrol is "easy".

B.C

[scumdog]

Yes 11m15s I think it is for 2.4km run is pretty tough for a female!!! Considering a male soldier joining the SAS must run a 10:00!!

However 20 secs is nothing!! She could make that up with a new pair of shoes and some no-doze pills!!

Last time I did it my time was 9m40sec but that was way back when I was 'only' 44 years old.

It's a tough run in any mans (or womans) books.

Tell her to keep trying, she'll get there if she's keen :niceone:

[Hoon]

(2.4 km) / (10 minutes) = 14.4 km/h
Average speed of someone who is fit is about 20km/h


Hell no!!! You need to be reasonably fit to make 10 minutes. 20kph over 100m maybe but definately not average speed. At that pace you'd break the world record for a marathon!!

The first day of SAS selection is the RFL (required fitness level test - Army equivalent of the PAT). If you don't do the run in less than 10 mins, 55 push ups and 130 sit ups you are back on the bus.

However I still think 11:15 for female police is kind of steep - as tough as a 9:15 for men I reckon. Even the Army has a 1:50 buffer between men and womens times....so much for equal opportunities :)

[Lou Girardin]

No, it was 3000 expressions of interest and up to 100 recruits from overseas to be trained in the coming year. If it was 3000 applications, imagine how many radar detectors you would have on your dash Lou....

B.C

You're right, I stand corrected. The other 2,900 discovered the true nature of Policing in NZ. I hear that quite a few of the last shipment of import cops were quite shocked at the prioritising of revenue collection here.

[Cibby]

I work shifts and people sometimes want to kill me too... stopping vehicles is inherently dangerous... you never know if you are going to have to deal with Joe Average or a gang member, so please don't jump on the bandwagon and say traffic patrol is "easy".

B.C

I wanna be just like you when i grow up... No Sarscasm intended either. :niceone:

Most cops that i have come across have been decent enough blokes if you smile at them properly, just hoping i can smile enough if i get caught without my L Plates..

Hmmmm now where did that L Plate go......... :whistle:

[spudchucka]

Hell no!!! You need to be reasonably fit to make 10 minutes. 20kph over 100m maybe but definately not average speed. At that pace you'd break the world record for a marathon!!

The first day of SAS selection is the RFL (required fitness level test - Army equivalent of the PAT). If you don't do the run in less than 10 mins, 55 push ups and 130 sit ups you are back on the bus.

However I still think 11:15 for female police is kind of steep - as tough as a 9:15 for men I reckon. Even the Army has a 1:50 buffer between men and womens times....so much for equal opportunities :)
Most the ex military cops I know did their PAT run in crazy times like 8 minutes 30 seconds. The police standard is not easy but it is certainly attainable by anyone, (male or female) that is able bodied and determined enough to make the grade. To knock off 20 seconds she just has to take a drink from the hard creek and go out and do it.

[spudchucka]

You're right, I stand corrected. The other 2,900 discovered the true nature of Policing in NZ. I hear that quite a few of the last shipment of import cops were quite shocked at the prioritising of revenue collection here.
Where did you hear that Lou? Is there a forum for dissaffected ex Pomy cops and ex MOT cops? http://www.whingeyexcops.com perhaps???

[Beemer]

I work shifts and people sometimes want to kill me too... stopping vehicles is inherently dangerous... you never know if you are going to have to deal with Joe Average or a gang member, so please don't jump on the bandwagon and say traffic patrol is "easy".B.C

I meant 'easy' in the sense that someone is either comitting an offence when you see them (speeding, no seat belt, dangerous driving, being drunk when pulled over at a checkpoint, etc.) or they aren't. I certainly wasn't implying the job itself was easy - we used to have three cops (all traffic when it was separate years ago) in the family and I know they didn't view it as easy.

As for the other comments, they were for ALL cops - you ALL work shifts, you ALL at some point have people wanting to kill you (probably more so than the average beat cop!), so don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to make out that those of you who are on traffic patrol do any less work or are placed in any less danger. I certainly wouldn't want to pull over a car load of drug crazed idiots who may or may not be armed.

All the bike cops I have met have been great - I don't love the highway patrol guys in cars, but hey, you're just doing your job, one most of us would not relish. :no:

[Stroker Girl]

Women have to be able to run 2.4 kms in 11 minutes and 15 seconds for men it is 10 minutes and 15 seconds. Its not that difficult to achieve. Some people have to work harder than others but I have never come across anyone that couldn't achieve the required standard if they had set their mind on it. There is no reason to lower the required standard and there is no reason to make speciall allowances for people just because they have tried really hard.

To correct you only slightly, the Physical Ability Test (PAT) is done when you apply to join, before you go to the police college and before you graduate police college. The only other times you will have to do this particular test is when you are a member of a specialist squad that requires that level of fitness, (armed offenders etc). All cops however have to pass bi-anually a Physical Competancy Test (PCT), which is different to the PAT. The PCT is more of an obstical course that the person being tested has to complete within a certain time, depending upon their age. Having a current PCT is considered a performance appraisal matter, if you don't remain current then you won't get pay rises when they are due etc.

Some overseas jurisdictions have pathetic fitness standards, 1.5 miles in 14 minutes 30 seconds. Thats a joke, you could bloody near walk it in that time. But I guess when the only people applying are fat arsed hamburger eating seppos you don't have a choice but to lower your standards. I hope it never happens here.

I understand what you are saying about it being important to keep a high standard of entrant, but I thought maybe some discretion could have been shown. It seemed a little perdantic to be so strict with the run time when she had all the other attributes to make a great cop. It just made me angry knowing that although the Police desperately need recruits, for the sake of 20 seconds they'd rather employ foreigners who can run faster.... But I guess rules are rules.

Re, the run time, I thought the same myself as I could do it in the time (just) without too much training. All I know is that she really did try her best (even chucked up at the end of the run at one test). I think she is going to give it one more go at the end of the year which I hope will be the one.

[Stroker Girl]

She's sounds grossly over-qualified. Did she refuse to shag the recruiter too?

Ha Ha. No passes made from the recruiters but I can't say the same about some of the cops on the beat we have met over the years. Phwoooah!!! Was those boys in their nice blue uniforms which got her initially interested in the force. Back in high school we even did a geography assigment at the Papakura Police Station with a class presentation (can't quite remember what Policing had to do with Geography!). She was in charge of the videoing and there was an awful lot of zoom shots on police butts scattered throughout the tape!! Had the song"Bad Boys" playing in the background. By memory I think we got an 'A'......

[spudchucka]

I understand what you are saying about it being important to keep a high standard of entrant, but I thought maybe some discretion could have been shown. It seemed a little perdantic to be so strict with the run time when she had all the other attributes to make a great cop. It just made me angry knowing that although the Police desperately need recruits, for the sake of 20 seconds they'd rather employ foreigners who can run faster.... But I guess rules are rules.

Re, the run time, I thought the same myself as I could do it in the time (just) without too much training. All I know is that she really did try her best (even chucked up at the end of the run at one test). I think she is going to give it one more go at the end of the year which I hope will be the one.
If a person can't make the required standard they will not keep up with the demands made of them at the police college. In other words they will probably not graduate. Therefore it would be unfair to allow that person to quit their regular job in the knowledge that they will probably not graduate from the college. Also it is not fair on the other recruits that have made the grade as they willl end up carrying them, (figuratively speaking).

The standards are set for a reason, its not just a figure thats been plucked out of the air. It really is attainable for anyone that doesn't suffer some form of physical dissability. You just have to want it bad and go out and train hard.

[Lou Girardin]

If a person can't make the required standard they will not keep up with the demands made of them at the police college. In other words they will probably not graduate. Therefore it would be unfair to allow that person to quit their regular job in the knowledge that they will probably not graduate from the college. Also it is not fair on the other recruits that have made the grade as they willl end up carrying them, (figuratively speaking).

The standards are set for a reason, its not just a figure thats been plucked out of the air. It really is attainable for anyone that doesn't suffer some form of physical dissability. You just have to want it bad and go out and train hard.

That's what they said about the height requirement. They soon changed that when the PC brigade got onto them.
What's the next standard to drop? Will 3 limbs will suffice? Or an IQ equal to your shoe size?

[scumdog]

That's what they said about the height requirement. They soon changed that when the PC brigade got onto them.
What's the next standard to drop? Will 3 limbs will suffice? Or an IQ equal to your shoe size?

Subtle, very subtle! :no:

[spudchucka]

That's what they said about the height requirement. They soon changed that when the PC brigade got onto them.
What's the next standard to drop? Will 3 limbs will suffice? Or an IQ equal to your shoe size?That was done simply to open the doors for more women to join. Which apparently is a desirable thing because according to the research and all the experts sitting in their universities we coppers are a bunch of sexist fullas and the culture of the police is that of a heterogenic macho cult of masculinity. Increasing the proportion of short women in our ranks has made all the difference, we are now much more in touch with our feminine sides, can't you tell?

[Kickaha]

What's the next standard to drop? Or an IQ equal to your shoe size?

I take it you're waiting for that so you can reapply?

[scumdog]

[QUOTE=Kickaha]I take it you're waiting for that so you can reapply?[/QUOTE

Hahaha! Good one, he'll never live that long!!! :woohoo:

[Lou Girardin]

That was done simply to open the doors for more women to join. Which apparently is a desirable thing because according to the research and all the experts sitting in their universities we coppers are a bunch of sexist fullas and the culture of the police is that of a heterogenic macho cult of masculinity. Increasing the proportion of short women in our ranks has made all the difference, we are now much more in touch with our feminine sides, can't you tell?

You better pray that some socialogist with the Gummints ear doesn't think you guys need some more people with criminal backgrounds to help you all relate to your clients.

[madboy]

You better pray that some socialogist with the Gummints ear doesn't think you guys need some more people with criminal backgrounds to help you all relate to your clients.That's right... now think of all the other common denominators of many of the clients... hmm...

ethinicity, IQ, personality profile, morality, socio-economic and educational background...

[scumdog]

That's right... now think of all the other common denominators of many of the clients... hmm...

ethinicity, IQ, personality profile, morality, socio-economic and educational background...

Take out IQ, morality, educational background and personality profile and they ALMOST could be me!! :finger:

[spudchucka]

You better pray that some socialogist with the Gummints ear doesn't think you guys need some more people with criminal backgrounds to help you all relate to your clients.
Clients? What PC shit are you talking? They are defendants not clients.

[inlinefour]

Clients? What PC shit are you talking? They are defendants not clients.

Can't call em defendants on the ward. However it'd be a great thing if they could all decide what to be called here. Patients, clients, service users, it goes on and on (PC dribble).

[Lou Girardin]

Clients? What PC shit are you talking? They are defendants not clients.

The time will come when you'll have to refer to them as clients Spud.
And seek informed consent before you apply an attitude adjustment.

[spudchucka]

The time will come when you'll have to refer to them as clients Spud.
And seek informed consent before you apply an attitude adjustment.
If I have to refer to them as clients I'd still think of them as pieces of shit so nothing would change other than the semantic meaning of "client".