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nzldth
23rd August 2005, 20:57
Hey Everyone,

First time to the site,

I am currently looking for my first bike and wondering what people recommend for a starter bike.....

Ive read the CBR vs ZXR threads and these seem to be the bikes of preferance but what do you guys think of NSR vs RGV? The 2 strokes seem slightly cheaper 2-3K vs 4-5K for the 4 strokes.....

Question...pay less for 2 stroke or pay more for 4 stroke?

Cheers guys

nsrpaul
23rd August 2005, 21:04
nsr /rgv as a first bike , dont do it , high maintanance , cost heaps for gas , oil and you wont live very long unless you are a super fast learner

Coyote
23rd August 2005, 21:05
4 stroke is the best place to start as they're smoother and not quite as powerful as the 2 strokes, but you could still get away with learning on a 2 stroke so long as you took it easy (to begin with)

The import RGVs and NSRs are all restricted to about 45hp so they won't feel more powerful than the CBR/ZXR, but you can derestrict them to get about 58-60hp. One of them might be a good first bike as you can derestrict them when you feel you want to step up in power

All the bikes are great, if a bit expensive for their age

gamgee
23rd August 2005, 21:12
you'll be rebuilding a 2 stroke engine pretty much every 1.5-2 years though so you have to take that into account of your pricing, i picked up my vt250f for $1400 22000km on the clock runs like a dream, and looks good, also keeps up with the cbr/zxr/fzr gang on paper, haven't tested that on the road, see the pic in my profile, so long as your patient there is always a bargain to be had

sels1
23rd August 2005, 21:17
Welcome aboard the site. Test ride a few and by what like the most.

crazylittleshit
23rd August 2005, 21:18
4 stroke a two stroke's are very unprodictable.....(don't care if this is spelt right)

curious george
23rd August 2005, 21:45
4 stroke a two stroke's are very unprodictable.....(don't care if this is spelt right)
Haven't a f.ing clue what you're on about... Perhaps this? (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=unprodictable)
2 strokes mucho fun, pain in the ass compared to a 4 stroke though.

Flyingpony
23rd August 2005, 21:57
Go 4-stroke. Longer life, easier to look after, cheaper to run - especially fuel.

Don't forget to budget in protection gear like helmet, gloves, jacket, pants and boots. Most forget about that, myself included.

SARGE
23rd August 2005, 22:07
Hey Everyone,

First time to the site,

I am currently looking for my first bike and wondering what people recommend for a starter bike.....

Ive read the CBR vs ZXR threads and these seem to be the bikes of preferance but what do you guys think of NSR vs RGV? The 2 strokes seem slightly cheaper 2-3K vs 4-5K for the 4 strokes.....

Question...pay less for 2 stroke or pay more for 4 stroke?

Cheers guys

with a 2 stroke.. you pretty much have to ride them like you hate them.. because they burn oil AS WELL As fuel.. you will gum them up if you nana them about for long.. spark plugs foul.. etc.. makes them a bit of a hassle.. rebuilding them quite often is also needed ( rings mostly but sometimes full piston replacement ( nature of the beast im afraid..)

2 strokers have quite a " light-Switch" type power band.. nothing until you are up in the Rev range ,,, then all of a sudden WHAMO!!.. toss you off the back of the bike..also.. 2 strokes do not have much Engine braking.. ( buttoning off the throttle on a 4 stroke slows the bke down.. not so on a 2 stroker..) the speed you enter a curve is the speed you stay at in the curve without braking ..


great fun, but quite a learning curve..
stick with a 4 stroker

awesker
23rd August 2005, 22:17
Cant really be bothered typing, so Ill paste something from another forum I read a while back.

http://www.cr-x.org/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=366&SearchTerms=2,stroke

Note: Second post is the shit you want to know :)

Spaz
23rd August 2005, 23:01
A mate of mine bought an RGV250 for his first bike. He couldn't see past the hp and jumped in.
It may only be a problem for the RGV, but I was told before I bought it he would need to thrash it, or ride along the motorway for at least 20 minutes at a near constant 100km/h, every 40 k's or so to heat the engine to it's optimal temperature. He didn't, as he was getting his bearings for riding, did 150k's, fouled a plug and kissed the deck because of it's sudden loss of power.

There are two sides to a 2 stroke I found, one is like a 125 and then the other side kicks in at the top end of the rev range, the power comes on so strong, so suddenly it wouldn't make learning easy. I would not want to hit the power band in the middle of a corner that's for sure. The guy who sold us the RGV was scared it would come out from underneath him if he hit the power band through a corner (Mate though that was attractive at the time).

On top of that, depending on how many k's you do, you'll have to get the power valves checked, carbs balanced and any other problem that arises cured at least every 6 to 12 months, about $500 for that, as I was told. That is if you ride it in the fashion it's supposed to be. If you don't, you'll foul a few plugs.

That’s my experience with RGV's. NSR's may be different, but I have little to believe that is the case.

Dadpole
23rd August 2005, 23:25
Some people give the impression that a 2 stroke needs constant rebuilds. You can get good mileage before work is required. The up side to a 2 stroke is that pistons, rings etc are cheap, and with a manual and handful of tools you can do the work yourself.

Racey Rider
24th August 2005, 10:24
Try a 98 RG 150 (not the RGV150). Cost - $1500 - $2000 privately. Look good. Great fun. Good proformance for what they are. Top speed 180km/h. May need to change piston rings at about 25 - 30 000km, but its not hard to do. and you've just saved $2000 over a 4/ 250 anyway.
Spend the saved money on riding gear and good tyres.
Winner! :ride:

... until you come up aginst a Kawasaki KR150 that is,, and then it's all over rover. :first:

nzldth
24th August 2005, 17:48
Cant really be bothered typing, so Ill paste something from another forum I read a while back.

http://www.cr-x.org/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=366&SearchTerms=2,stroke

Note: Second post is the shit you want to know :)
Cheers awesker for the post, explained everything i needed to know,

Sounds like 2-stroke engines are similar to turbocharged cars in terms of the power band coming on strong up in the revs. Sounds like it could be unforgiving if ya hit the power band mid-cornering! Also with the need to give it a good thrash to keep the internals happy, a newbie could be a little hesitant...dont want to get to overconfident to soon! :P

From what im hearing a 4 stroke is the way to go in terms of drivability esp for someone getting their bearings on a bike along with reduced work in terms of maintainance.....

Will keep my eyes peeled for a nice second had 4 stroker - if anyone knows of ZXR's or CBR's for sale let me know.....

Cheers

Beemer
24th August 2005, 17:56
Try a 98 RG 150 (not the RGV150). Cost - $1500 - $2000 privately. Look good. Great fun. Good performance for what they are. Top speed 180km/h.

Top speed when going downhill with a VERY strong tail wind perhaps! I had one of these and even at Manfeild you didn't see 180 on the speedo - and the speedos were notorious for over-reading anyway! When you thought you were doing 120 you were lucky to be doing 105!

They are awesome little bikes though, a hell of a lot of fun and they are great in the twisty stuff.

gamgee
24th August 2005, 18:06
i seriously wouldn't recommend the sports style bikes for learning on, fairing + high power 250 + complete newbie is not a good combination, you should probably be looking at something like an fxr150 (if you want a sportsbike) or a suzuki gn250 or a yamaha sr250 or if you can find one an srx250 would suit you perfectly, or a suzuki gsf250 (bandit) theres heaps of them out there i just don't really think the power those cbr's zzr's and fzr's put out is a good idea for a beginner, and 250's hold there value well anyway so even if it's only for 6 months until you get used to riding you'll be able to sell it for pretty close to what you paid anyway, and then get a faster 250, which reminds me, i really should go and get my restricted at some stage i'm about 6 months past when i could have got it :hitcher:

ZorsT
24th August 2005, 21:12
Top speed when going downhill with a VERY strong tail wind perhaps!

...other words...

They are awesome little bikes though, a hell of a lot of fun and they are great in the twisty stuff.

awesome bikes :D
although, i have seen 185 on my speedo.... with a back pack on...
I find powerband great, mid corner is fine for me (because I have so much more traction avalable - chicken strips to KFC)
the KR's are not as common as the RG's though....

get a 2-smoke 150, it'll keep up with most 250 4-strokes :) - and is cheaper to buy

Beemer
24th August 2005, 23:27
awesome bikes :D
although, i have seen 185 on my speedo.... with a back pack on...

You may have seen 185 on the speedo, but you would not have actually been doing 185 because of how far out the speedos are. I've seen 175 when riding mine, but the person riding with me was only seeing about 155 on their speedo. Keep dreaming though!

SimJen
25th August 2005, 08:26
2 Stroke 250's are not really suitable for learners. They are usually really light and nimble with amazing brakes and wicked powerbands. Having said that a restricted 2 stroke isn't that bad with only 45hp or so as long as the rider isn't crazy. I had a derestricted 60hp NSR250SP for many years and rebuilt it once or twice. As long as you treat them well they will last. Try rebuilding a 4 stroke 250 yourself.....its not a simple job. Two Strokes pull down in half the time, a lot less moving parts so much less to go wrong. Most failures are caused by owners using crap oil or not warming the bike up before riding. Incorrect jetting, too lean/or rich can cause seizures/plug fouling respectively.
I used to ride mine in traffic a fair bit but you get used to fanging it from lights - lights.
Just have to change your way of riding slightly......its also not wise to sit on constant high speeds (vary throttle to allow more/less oil through).

mikey
25th August 2005, 12:07
go for the two stroke, youll have more fun learning, an youll learn quicker. an cheaper to buy.

its like learnign to swim, if you get chucked in the deep end, you either sink, or swim,
if you piss (haha) around in the shallow end trying to float an get your precious head under the water it could take you years.

gamgee
25th August 2005, 12:20
its like learnign to swim, if you get chucked in the deep end, you either sink, or swim,

and what happens if he sinks? as almost certainly will happen if he buys a 2stroke 250 as a first bike

Damon
25th August 2005, 14:26
When i got my first bike it was a CBR250r, which was ok, went fast enough, handled ok, but my mate bought an RGV250 and it was just embarising.

I wouldn't recoment a 150, no offence to those with them, but you'll grow out of them pretty fast, a CBR or ZXR are a good choice if you dont have any riding experience or are not a hoon, but if you do some experience or can see your self blasting in and out of twisties then nothing goes past a RGV/NSR, they do have a higher running cost, we re-coned my mates one in a friends garage for about $500 and once you've done it the first time it'll only take you a couple hours after that.

SimJen
25th August 2005, 15:50
Best bet is to talk to people that know something about each. So many people have an opinion based on s/hand knowledge.
I have had a 90 CBR250, 9? CBR250RR, NSR250SP and had many mates with TZR250, RGV250's etc.
I can say IMO that the fourstrokes were pretty boring and overweight to ride with lack lustre brakes and suspension. Two Stroke race reps always have better suspension (proddy racing) and decent brakes (4 pot instead of 2 pot sliders on the CBR's), as well as more power.
Reliability is not much of an issue if cared properly for. Like someone said $500-600 will be new pistons/rings. Only other service item for motor is changing gearbox oil at 5000km intervals.
With a fourstroke you'll be doing that and valve shim checks.....works out pretty similar cost wise.

ZorsT
25th August 2005, 17:03
You may have seen 185 on the speedo, but you would not have actually been doing 185 because of how far out the speedos are. I've seen 175 when riding mine, but the person riding with me was only seeing about 155 on their speedo. Keep dreaming though!
yeh the speedos are way out...
I "cruise" at an indicated 120, and only just keep up with traffic :)

Spaz
28th August 2005, 12:24
I can say IMO that the fourstrokes were pretty boring and overweight to ride with lack lustre brakes and suspension. Two Stroke race reps always have better suspension (proddy racing) and decent brakes (4 pot instead of 2 pot sliders on the CBR's), as well as more power.
He has a point, I am looking at 2 strokes for all those reasons.
If you lean toward the hoon side of riding you will probably get tired of 4 stroke power pretty quick.
The main problem I think you may have is getting used to how traffic treats you, not checking their blind spots, pulling out of intersections in front of you, all that kind of stuff (not to mention, boy racers trying to lane split you back). once you understand and are used to other drivers, your inner hoon can come out safely between lights and your 2 stroke will be fine.
IMO, you can learn how to ride a bike, on any kind of bike, just how easy you learn is another thing. From my experience, you'll get road savvy easier on a GN. You may also get tired of the slack power in about 3-6 months.
I think it depends on how easy you want to learn to ride, over how much cash you want to spend swapping bikes.
good luck.

spada
30th September 2005, 21:27
From my experience, you'll get road savvy easier on a GN. You may also get tired of the slack power in about 3-6 months.


Yeah thats pretty much the key to this thread. I say get something that is really easy to ride to start with and move on later . I obviously have a Spada but I owned a NSR for about three months. It absolutely creamed the Spada. I had been riding for about two years on the spada before I bought the NSR and it was a big step.

As to those that say that 4 strokes are crap for power bands and the like your sort of right. Yes the brakes are better and so on. But when your first learning you don't huge power coz you'll just go too fast for what little experience you have. You don't want awesome brakes to stop coz you'll just end up locking them up and decking it. I'm sure if you searched for a poll as to peoples first crash this would be one of if not the highest cause of first accidents.

Any way moral "get the easiest bike to ride to start, then go in steps." You'll be a better rider for it.

Good luck with choosing