Research on motorcyclists, pillions, and non-riders

[mdutton27]

My organisation is conducting a multifaceted research project on motorcycle riders across a spectrum of items. We reached out to Simon Gotlieb at Bronz, Mike Dew at Ulysses, and we've had a phenomenal response, but we also want to make sure we are capturing individuals who are not a part of membership organisations as well. This research will help us before we embark on a series of deep-dive qualitative interviews with riders one on one.

We are particularly interested in active riders and their partners (who either do not ride or pillion only).

There is a survey to capture each group:
Active Riders
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/nzriders


Pillions and Non-Riding Partners
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/nzpillions

There are five $100 Prezzy Cards up for grabs for each group too.

A couple of questions we've had so far are below along with the answers:
Why are you asking certain questions, especially the risk questions?
That's a good question with a complex answer. We are using the DOSPERT risk assessment tool within the survey which asks people about their risk profiles (personal, recreational, financial, etc). Part of this assessment is to lay the ground work for us to do interviews with actual riders to understand differences between riders. This data may or may not even prove to be useful. Let me explain further; if we find that there are high risk taking riders that statistically cluster together, we'll interview them and ask them about risk, how do you know when it's safe to take a risk, when does taking a risk become too much of a risk, etc. Combine that with other factors (and again I'm making this up because I do not have the data yet from the survey) are those who take risks more likely to have advanced safety gear which would mitigate risks and would lead to theories of Risk Homeostasis and/or Risk Compensation theory. Another item that's interesting in general is we all know that riding a motorcycle is considered a higher risk activity, but it doesn't mean that the people who ride have a higher risk tolerance.

There's a lot that is unknown and the results from this will allow me to discuss things in person and understand the results better when I speak with riders.


Who's commissioned this work?
At this time we are not disclosing who has commissioned the project and not to sound like a broken record, but the survey is just one aspect of the project. I can tell you it is funded by more than one agency. When we initially set out to do this work, we very quickly learned that Police, NZTA, MOT, ACC, MSAC, MOH, etc., all caused individuals to change their disposition when they thought they were funding it. Therefore, we decided it would be best to not disclose the agencies as motorcyclists are very passionate and have very strong feelings that could skew the research.

A quick update on the survey. Bronz has supplied some feedback and we've made couple of minor changes. Most notably is that we have included the opportunity for riders to inform us what questions we should be asking as we move forward!

If you have questions I'll check on the post and respond to items as I can. You can also reach out to motorcycle-research@optimalexperience.com

[Grashopper]

Interesting survey. Would love to see the results when this is finished.

[mdutton27]

I'll be sure to let you know the outcomes. May be a few months until it's all done and dusted.


Interesting survey. Would love to see the results when this is finished.

[mdutton27]

My organisation is conducting a multifaceted research project on motorcycle riders across a spectrum of items. We reached out to Simon Gotlieb at Bronz, Mike Dew at Ulysses, and we've had a phenomenal response, but we also want to make sure we are capturing individuals who are not a part of membership organisations as well. This research will help us before we embark on a series of deep-dive qualitative interviews with riders one on one.

We are particularly interested in active riders and their partners (who either do not ride or pillion only).

There is a survey to capture each group:
Active Riders
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/nzriders


Pillions and Non-Riding Partners
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/nzpillions

There are five $100 Prezzy Cards up for grabs for each group too.

A couple of questions we've had so far are below along with the answers:
Why are you asking certain questions, especially the risk questions?
That's a good question with a complex answer. We are using the DOSPERT risk assessment tool within the survey which asks people about their risk profiles (personal, recreational, financial, etc). Part of this assessment is to lay the ground work for us to do interviews with actual riders to understand differences between riders. This data may or may not even prove to be useful. Let me explain further; if we find that there are high risk taking riders that statistically cluster together, we'll interview them and ask them about risk, how do you know when it's safe to take a risk, when does taking a risk become too much of a risk, etc. Combine that with other factors (and again I'm making this up because I do not have the data yet from the survey) are those who take risks more likely to have advanced safety gear which would mitigate risks and would lead to theories of Risk Homeostasis and/or Risk Compensation theory. Another item that's interesting in general is we all know that riding a motorcycle is considered a higher risk activity, but it doesn't mean that the people who ride have a higher risk tolerance.

There's a lot that is unknown and the results from this will allow me to discuss things in person and understand the results better when I speak with riders.


Who's commissioned this work?
At this time we are not disclosing who has commissioned the project and not to sound like a broken record, but the survey is just one aspect of the project. I can tell you it is funded by more than one agency. When we initially set out to do this work, we very quickly learned that Police, NZTA, MOT, ACC, MSAC, MOH, etc., all caused individuals to change their disposition when they thought they were funding it. Therefore, we decided it would be best to not disclose the agencies as motorcyclists are very passionate and have very strong feelings that could skew the research.

A quick update on the survey. Bronz has supplied some feedback and we've made couple of minor changes. Most notably is that we have included the opportunity for riders to inform us what questions we should be asking as we move forward!

If you have questions I'll check on the post and respond to items as I can. You can also reach out to motorcycle-research@optimalexperience.com

[Hitcher]

I think that this is a particularly biased piece of research that is designed to reinforce a bunch of preconceived opinions. The section about risk and perception of risk is particularly flawed.

All robust research should start with a clear view of the data sets that are important, and then work backwards from that to the construction of the actual questions themselves. This research does not do that.

It will be most interesting to receive a copy of the results, which should hopefully be put out for feedback, before any decisions or recommendations are made.

Also questionable is the decision not to reveal who is responsible for commissioning the research. That also significantly undermines its validity.

[Drew]

As I said to Simon on facebook. I think it's a pile of shit, without clear parameters or question qualification.

How can I honestly answer that I love to thrash the shit out of a bike, without first saying that I do it on a track?

There were other examples of how piss poor it is, but I seem to have repressed the memories.

[Drew]

Who's commissioned this work?
At this time we are not disclosing who has commissioned the project and not to sound like a broken record, but the survey is just one aspect of the project. I can tell you it is funded by more than one agency. When we initially set out to do this work, we very quickly learned that Police, NZTA, MOT, ACC, MSAC, MOH, etc., all caused individuals to change their disposition when they thought they were funding it. Therefore, we decided it would be best to not disclose the agencies as motorcyclists are very passionate and have very strong feelings that could skew the research.


Our passion skews the results? Are you kidding? The bloody survey if answered honestly, is completely pissed, let alone skewed.

[nallac]

I tried, but fuck that.....whats this question got to do with Riding????.

Engaging in unprotected sex with a one night stand.

[Drew]

I tried, but fuck that.....whats this question got to do with Riding????.

Engaging in unprotected sex with a one night stand.It's meant to qualify your risk assessment levels I think.

[baffa]

I suspect you'd get a warmer response if you didnt make it so blatantly clear that everything was copy pasta.

I never ride at less than 200 km/hr when I have a pillion, and the front wheel never wears as it is always in the air. I also beat up and run over anyone who doesnt ride, they dont deserve to breathe my air.
Is that the answers you expect?

[hayd3n]

I tried, but fuck that.....whats this question got to do with Riding????.

Engaging in unprotected sex with a one night stand.

i always wear a helmet . ATGATT

[Conquiztador]

I prefer having unprotected sex with my self while riding at 240K/h passing the ones who create surw... sureve... surva...ahh questoneers like this crap!

[jellywrestler]

We reached out to Simon Gotlieb at Bronz, Mike Dew at Ulysses, and we've had a phenomenal response,
have you reached out to as many people as Bishop Brian Tamaki?

[Smifffy]

have you reached out to as many people as Bishop Brian Tamaki?

Or Jimmy Savile?

[Conquiztador]

Oh and another thing dear mdutton27, your credibility is shot to pieces. I suspect you do not own a bike. Why? Well, any bike owner who has spent their hard earned money to get a bike of his/her dreams knows how to spell the name of their bike.... Ducatti, roflmfao!:lol:

[Smifffy]

Hmmm, let's see.

You bang on about risk, the terms and conditions state:


This competition is not open to employees, elected members or contractors of
Optimal Experience,
or any person directly involved
with the New Zealand
Government a
nd its agencies,
or their direct family members.

From your website list of esteemed customers we see the following logos front and centre: http://optimalexperience.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/logo-acc.png

Handy that ACC also has a bunch of "different organisations" from which to source funding.

All of this cloak and dagger stuff leads me to trust you less, not more. Why don't you just get the GCSB to give you the data?

[Smifffy]

Michael is clearly passionate about motorcycling, and his beloved Ducatti:


The person

In his spare time he likes to run, bike, scuba dive, and of course travel. His goal is to run a marathon in New Zealand, land on a glacier in the south island, and convince his friends to move to middle earth as well. While he's not doing this, you'll find him looking for exceptionally made craft cocktails.

[Drew]

Michael is clearly passionate about motorcycling, and his beloved Ducatti:Dammit. I searched for Mark Dutton on bookface.

Seems like he doesn't want to make another appearance here, so wanted to take my questions to him.

[Smifffy]

Dammit. I searched for Mark Dutton on bookface.

Seems like he doesn't want to make another appearance here, so wanted to take my questions to him.

His skype name is the same as his username here, or you could just call his mobile: oops

[Drew]

His skype name is the same as his username here, or you could just call his mobile: oopsSkype, that's the video calling one yeah?

It's pants optional Monday here, I dunno if it's a good idea.

[Road kill]

Just another pack of sneaky cunts that won't tell who their backers are,,,because their a pack of sneaky cunts an don't want to tell the real truth.

Here's a plan,,,,FUCK OFF.

[rastuscat]

It's meant to qualify your risk assessment levels I think.

Or possibly to see if it's worth emailing you to see if you're keen on a one night stand.

[BigAl]

Oh and another thing dear mdutton27, your credibility is shot to pieces. I suspect you do not own a bike. Why? Well, any bike owner who has spent their hard earned money to get a bike of his/her dreams knows how to spell the name of their bike.... Ducatti, roflmfao!:lol:

That'll be the Chinese made duke.

[Drew]

Or possibly to see if it's worth emailing you to see if you're keen on a one night stand.Six week hiatus in the marital bed here at home, can I alter my survey answers?

[Ocean1]

I think that this is a particularly biased piece of research that is designed to reinforce a bunch of preconceived opinions.

I got as far as Q23 by glossing over a lot of irrelevant multi-choice answers, and in fact "none of the above" would probably have been more accurate for all of them, should it have been available.

I could almost write the document the data's supposed to support, just from the survey's language and structure.

[carburator]

Dear Michael,

My partner with 15 years of research experience covering television, radio and online media can help you with your UX
and design for your survey, and is available to consult and make recommendations to make your survey more user friendly

P.S. is also a learner rider.

So in short your people need to have a chat to my people..

[Berries]

I lost interest in the survey after about five or six pages.


At this time we are not disclosing who has commissioned the project
Hardly encouragement to fill it in is it?

[Gianz]

Ducatti. Priceless. Probably the only bike brand he could even come close to spell...

[Gianz]

Just to save time to others: it's an ACC survey to find out how ruthless we are and how much more we should pay.

[The Reibz]

I suspect you'd get a warmer response if you didnt make it so blatantly clear that everything was copy pasta.

I never ride at less than 200 km/hr when I have a pillion, and the front wheel never wears as it is always in the air. I also beat up and run over anyone who doesnt ride, they dont deserve to breathe my air.
Is that the answers you expect?

This has to be one of the best things I have ever read on kiwibiker. Someone get this man a beer...

If three hayabusas are travelling 270kph+ down the north western and the lead rider has a radar detector and laser jammer is this considered safe? Just want to clear things up

[rickstv]

Whatever the results of the survey, they will be twisted and tweaked to suit themselves and used against us.

There is no way I'm filling it in. A complete boycott is in order I reckon.:bleh:

Rick.

[unstuck]

This has to be one of the best things I have ever read on kiwibiker. Someone get this man a beer...

If three hayabusas are travelling 270kph+ down the north western and the lead rider has a radar detector and laser jammer is this considered safe? Just want to clear things up

Your Bussa could not do 270 with your fat head on it, CUNT.:msn-wink:

[The Reibz]

Just having a look through your ball licking questionare now. What a crock of shit. Anyone that thinks this is helpful in any way shape or form needs to go kill themselves.

To many questions about fucking ABS. Almost like a porno for safety bullshet.


31. How much do the following individuals influence your purchasing decisions when it comes to safety?
Gareth Morgan? Are you fucking shitting me? Why is that ballbags name even in there. If anyone needs a bullet to the head its him...

Lucky I got time to waste today so I can fill this thing out truthfuly. Pics to follow

[Drew]

I wonder who we can talk to, to inform them that we intentionally filled the survey out incorrectly. So they can discount it's findings and sack whoever wrote the stupid thing.

[The Reibz]

http://iforce.co.nz/i/nj5ylnpv.3s3.png
http://iforce.co.nz/i/ptct1qew.2hu.png
http://iforce.co.nz/i/tzy10iaf.bjm.png

Like a boss. I answered as honestly as I could

[Banditbandit]

Fuck ... you're pack of whinging moaning cunts ... lucky y'll wear helmets .. so the rest of the world doesn't have to listen to you ..

[mdutton27]

Conquiztador, that is actually amusing. While I do not ride myself, I am working with riders, very well known and respected individuals. It is a forced field on the account and a mistake.


Oh and another thing dear mdutton27, your credibility is shot to pieces. I suspect you do not own a bike. Why? Well, any bike owner who has spent their hard earned money to get a bike of his/her dreams knows how to spell the name of their bike.... Ducatti, roflmfao!:lol:

[Drew]

Fuck ... you're pack of whinging moaning cunts ... lucky y'll wear helmets .. so the rest of the world doesn't have to listen to you ..Have you perused the survey? It's really quite bad.

[Drew]

Conquiztador, that is actually amusing. While I do not ride myself, I am working with riders, very well known and respected individuals. It is a forced field on the account and a mistake.But you felt that misleading people into thinking you did ride a bike, (by filling in the field apon siging up to this site), was the best way to get us to take part?

Or you thought you could try and be one of the cool kids for a bit?

Either way. FAIL!

Simon is respected by many of course, I didn't see any other names I recognise so can't comment, but did you ask for input on the final survey from them before you put it to the public?

I'm pretty bloody dim, and even I can see where it should have been better designed.

[The Reibz]

While I do not ride myself, I am working with riders, very well known and respected individuals.
The fuck off then. This is a riders forum, take your corprate bullshit somewhere else.

Respect is earned, not given. Who are these riders you speak of?

[mdutton27]

Reibz, while I'm happy to discount your entry, I do appreciate the amusement. Thank you. We are trying very hard to do unbiased research that benefits both motorcyclists and the commissioning organisations. Unfortunately, answers along these lines impairs the work being conducted.


http://iforce.co.nz/i/nj5ylnpv.3s3.png
http://iforce.co.nz/i/ptct1qew.2hu.png
http://iforce.co.nz/i/tzy10iaf.bjm.png

Like a boss. I answered as honestly as I could

[Banditbandit]

Have you perused the survey? It's really quite bad.

I thought that some of it showed that the researcher did not really understand motorcyclists - the question/answer groupings didn't give a good match for why I rode ... for instance, I wanted to say I rode bikes a pure rebellion - but could not say that ... that kind of answer means that no authority figure or Government deparment is going to influenc my riding/bike purchases - because if they try then I rebel ..

I was also a little unsure at times whether the questions were aimed at qualitative or quantitative research - and sometimes I thought they were mixing the two .. which is not good


It was just a little underdone at times ... A reseach supervisor with a better understanding of motorcycling would have improved it ... I might let it go as a Masters level research project, but not at a PhD level project.


Is it realy bad enough to rate a three-page thread rant ???

[Banditbandit]

Reibz, while I'm happy to discount your entry, I do appreciate the amusement. Thank you. We are trying very hard to do unbiased research that benefits both motorcyclists and the commissioning organisations. Unfortunately, answers along these lines impairs the work being conducted.

I'm sorry, but as a rider and a tertiary research supervisor, your survey will not give you the answers that your clients needs - it might give them the answers that they want to hear .. but that is never good .... see other post

[The Reibz]

I sense a ACC homo...
The whole question about weather there should be a levy discount for having a ABS system just gives it away. You didn't include 1% clubs in your club list, there are to many questions about safety equipment mods and the benefits of having them, 3/4 of the questions have nothing to do with anything. It was like a behaviorial psyc exam.

And what the fuck does my income bracket have to do with my riding?

YOU ARE A ACC PUPPET

[Drew]

The fuck off then. This is a riders forum, take your corprate bullshit somewhere else.

Respect is earned, not given. Who are these riders you speak of?


I'm sorry, but as a rider and a tertiary research supervisor, your survey will not give you the answers that your clients needs - it might give them the answers that they want to hear .. but that is never good .... see other postYour post here seems to be a waste of your time I'm afraid.

As near as I can tell, this Mike character is only interested in addressing the more crass of our fraternities critique. Possibly motivated by the fact that it easier to discount.

[Swoop]

http://iforce.co.nz/i/nj5ylnpv.3s3.png
??? "Chest Air bags"???

I guess when the Mrs is on the back? When riding solo = no.:scratch:

[mdutton27]

Banditbandit, this is only one aspect of the project. As for mixing qualitative and quantitive research, you can easily do a PhD on that topic alone. Mixed methods research can be useful as long as you are aware of the limitations. As for why you ride, you could easily write in pure rebellion in the Other field we left for you.


I thought that some of it showed that the researcher did not really understand motorcyclists - the question/answer groupings didn't give a good match for why I rode ... for instance, I wanted to say I rode bikes a pure rebellion - but could not say that ... that kind of answer means that no authority figure or Government deparment is going to influenc my riding/bike purchases - because if they try then I rebel ..

I was also a little unsure at times whether the questions were aimed at qualitative or quantitative research - and sometimes I thought they were mixing the two .. which is not good


It was just a little underdone at times ... A reseach supervisor with a better understanding of motorcycling would have improved it ... I might let it go as a Masters level research project, but not at a PhD level project.


Is it realy bad enough to rate a three-page thread rant ???

[Drew]

The survey at a basic level, implies that the powers that be intend to make certain "safety" devices mandatory.

The majority of riders think that rider training, and proper skills assessment is the best course of action for lowering our injury and death per rider rates. Most of those who are helping ACC in the quest to achieve this are in agreement.

So I am confused. If the message is clear, and would be effective by cost and results measure, WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE WASTING TIME ON THIS SHIT FOR?

I'm getting angry about it obviously. Being ignored will do that to me.

Ranting on here will do nothing of course, but I'm a sucker for exercising in futility....Figuratively speaking of course. I avoid actual exercise like the plague.

[Paul in NZ]

Gawd - such strong emotions for one little survey....

I doubt its going to change much and yes a lot of it seems to be slanted towards risk taking and items such as ABS. I suspects there is a good reason for that.

Of course there might not be but FFS calm down and offer constructive criticisim instead of going off the deep end. No wonder ACC and the like don't engage with motorcyclists...

If its of any help. The fact is most of my riding is completed on an old motorcycle. No - I have no idea why I like it - I just do... There are no modern accessories capable of being retro fitted to a drum braked monstrosity like that so its down to me and some decent gear.

Sigh...

[Drew]

Banditbandit, this is only one aspect of the project. As for mixing qualitative and quantitive research, you can easily do a PhD on that topic alone. Mixed methods research can be useful as long as you are aware of the limitations.I think you are trying to bulshit us more. Given the way you have conducted yourself thus far, that's not going to change.
As for why you ride, you could easily write in pure rebellion in the Other field we left for you.Telling someone you are rebelling, defeats the purpose a bit. You couldn't see the irony when it was spelled out for you, and I assume you are meant to be an educated man.

I really should have given more thought to higher education, it seems it's easier than I imagined.

[mdutton27]

Hello Drew, from what I know there is no push to make "safety" devices mandatory, but there is interest into what makes someone purchase a safety device. Safety devices are only one aspect that can make riders safer. We are well aware of other issues affecting riders; rider conspicuity, line painting, asphalt composition, vehicular blindsight, fatigue, etc. We plan on furthering our research as we move forward and having conversations around those topics, but right now we are starting out of the gate with understanding how motorcyclists perceive risk and safety.



The survey at a basic level, implies that the powers that be intend to make certain "safety" devices mandatory.

The majority of riders think that rider training, and proper skills assessment is the best course of action for lowering our injury and death per rider rates. Most of those who are helping ACC in the quest to achieve this are in agreement.

So I am confused. If the message is clear, and would be effective by cost and results measure, WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE WASTING TIME ON THIS SHIT FOR?

I'm getting angry about it obviously. Being ignored will do that to me.

Ranting on here will do nothing of course, but I'm a sucker for exercising in futility....Figuratively speaking of course. I avoid actual exercise like the plague.

[Drew]

so its down to me and some decent gear.

Sigh...The bottom line, right there!

Even with the aides currently becoming mainstreem, nothing changes.

But lets waste a fuck load more tax payers money, before we address it.

[Drew]

Hello Drew, from what I know there is no push to make "safety" devices mandatory, but there is interest into what makes someone purchase a safety device. Safety devices are only one aspect that can make riders safer. We are well aware of other issues affecting riders; rider conspicuity, line painting, asphalt composition, vehicular blindsight, fatigue, etc. We plan on furthering our research as we move forward and having conversations around those topics, but right now we are starting out of the gate with understanding how motorcyclists perceive risk and safety.Alright, lets say I buy that.

What possible reason could understanding the risk assessment of the average biker, is there?

"But right now we're starting out of the gate"...A third of the way down the track. The back tracking will make any progress moot, if riders are trained to see what it is they're meant to perceive as a risk in the first place.

Sod it. I'm not enjoying making a cunt of myself for once, I'm out.

[Banditbandit]

Banditbandit, this is only one aspect of the project. As for mixing qualitative and quantitive research, you can easily do a PhD on that topic alone. Mixed methods research can be useful as long as you are aware of the limitations.

Yes - that's true. And the distinction between the two groupings is becoming irrelevant in the current post-post modernist research approaches. Like I said - I was unsure of what you were doing. I would like to see how you intend to analyze the data before I comment further.



As for why you ride, you could easily write in pure rebellion in the Other field we left for you.

Human behaviour around the way such questions are framed should tell you that some of us do not use those boxes ... clicking on a cicle to indicate choice is one thing. Writing words in a survey we have been told is quick and easy does not take much time is another thing ...

As has been pointed out - your results will be skewed and not that reliable ... you wil need a huge number of responses to even it out and get reliable results - a biger nukber than, I suspect, of total bike riders in GodZone ..

But then I only came here to tell the rest they were a pack of moaners .. I did the survey - it was interesting .. love to see your results .. but I suspect I will a) not like your findings because 2) your results wil be a litle skewed ...

[Banditbandit]

I really should have given more thought to higher education, it seems it's easier than I imagined.


:killingme: Yes - you should have - I work in it so that must tell you something ... tho' I've always had a somewhat turbulent relationship with education (I've dropped out of three universities and graduated from one - and that one more than once) and I find it somewhat ironic that the kid at the back of the class who was always getting kicked out and sent to the principal's office wound up as the teacher at the front ...

[Banditbandit]

Hello Drew, from what I know there is no push to make "safety" devices mandatory, but there is interest into what makes someone purchase a safety device. Safety devices are only one aspect that can make riders safer. We are well aware of other issues affecting riders; rider conspicuity, line painting, asphalt composition, vehicular blindsight, fatigue, etc. We plan on furthering our research as we move forward and having conversations around those topics, but right now we are starting out of the gate with understanding how motorcyclists perceive risk and safety.

Why are you and your organisation and whoever contracted you - so interested in motorcycle safety ??? when clearly a majority of motorcyclists have only a limited concern for safety - ATGATT, good tyres, excellent brakes - and bugger all else??? Motorcycling is a higher risk occupation - we accept that - for some of us it is why we do it ...

Why are you all so concerned with OUR welfare ???

[babysteps]

mdutton27 - The most dangerous thing about riding motorbikes is idiots in cars. That's all you need for your research

Perhaps you could recommend that they have to go through a graduated license based on power to weight ratio also. Would probably lower the road toll by half.

[Drew]

mdutton27 - The most dangerous thing about riding motorbikes is idiots in cars. That's all you need for your research

Perhaps you could recommend that they have to go through a graduated license based on power to weight ratio also. Would probably lower the road toll by half.Darwin suggests, we let you carry on with this fucken geniuis thinking! But it makes the rest of us look bad.

Do not shirk the responsibilty of your own safety. The fucking up of others is to be expected, so it can be controlled if you have your shit together.

Go through the search function, and look for all of Katman's posts. Eliminate the crap about buildings falling down, and open your mind to his blunt delivery methods.

[Paul in NZ]

mdutton27 - The most dangerous thing about riding motorbikes is idiots in cars. That's all you need for your research
.

Or it could be that the research has indicated that this is infact not 100% true.... There are a significant amount of accidents where the motorcycle has simply fallen over on a bend or gone off the road. Yes - cars and idiots driving cars are a significant hazard and one way of addressing this is asking if ABS / air bags whatever help to mitigate this risk.

[babysteps]

Settle down there sunny, I don't 'shirk the responsibility of your own safety' my bikes are well maintained, I wear ATGATT and I ride like a nana. The majority of Road Bike accidents are people falling off the road (our problem) and 'I'm sorry I didn't see you" accidents. (Thats from ACC by the way.)

A graduated license for cars is a great idea m8, but then I guess your happy with your 18 year old kid doing burnouts in a 300hp WRX?

[Banditbandit]

Yes - go here and read this

http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motorcycle-crash-facts-2012.pdf

Things have changed ... motorcyclists are now only 9% of road crashes - down from 21% in the mid-1980s ... and a reading of the pie chart on responsibility (page 4) shows motorcyclists were responsible for 53% of all motorcycle crashes .. other drivers responsible for 36% and in 8% of crashes some resonsibility was on the motorcylist ...

We can't blame other for our fuck ups any more ...

[Paul in NZ]

Settle down there sunny, I don't 'shirk the responsibility of your own safety' my bikes are well maintained, I wear ATGATT and I ride like a nana. The majority of Road Bike accidents are people falling off the road (our problem) and 'I'm sorry I didn't see you" accidents. (Thats from ACC by the way.)

A graduated license for cars is a great idea m8, but then I guess your happy with your 18 year old kid doing burnouts in a 300hp WRX?

Yup - quite settled thanks to a very comfy chair and I try to remain sunny but I think you might mean sonny?

I can feel you bristling with indignation but thats not my intent. If I look back on 40+ years of continuous riding I have never observed an accident where a car was the sole cause yet I have picked innumerable people from ditches, banks and out of gutters. I'm not saying they don't happen but when they do the bike is usually single rather than in a group so its hardly surprising. But couple this with a historical and understandable reluctance of riders to admit that they screwed up (the insurance implications alone encourage a not my fault line) but I think idiot car drivers are not quite the threat we say they are.

Balanced against this personal view is that I don't ride in cities much and I live in a small town.

[Ender EnZed]

Perhaps you could recommend that they have to go through a graduated license based on power to weight ratio also. Would probably lower the road toll by half.

If they were allowed the same 150kW/T that bikes are then it would only affect an extremely small proportion of learner drivers.

[Katman]

.....and 'I'm sorry I didn't see you" accidents. (Thats from ACC by the way.)


I wonder how many of those accidents were a failure of both parties to "see" the other.

[Conquiztador]

Let's not fool our selves here. In todays political climate any research done re accidents and safety is done to find out how costs can be reduced and responsibility/blame moved on to others. Normally the research would be used as a basis for new regulations restricting the enjoyment, increasing the cost and giving the authority new ways of punishing anyone who does not agree. As a total cynic I would go as far as to state that whoever is funding these surveys have already indicated what result they are looking for as they are on the look for a reason to implement the next draconic measure to limit our freedom.

[Katman]

Let's not fool our selves here. In todays political climate any research done re accidents and safety is done to find out how costs can be reduced and responsibility/blame moved on to others. Normally the research would be used as a basis for new regulations restricting the enjoyment, increasing the cost and giving the authority new ways of punishing anyone who does not agree. As a total cynic I would go as far as to state that whoever is funding these surveys have already indicated what result they are looking for as they are on the look for a reason to implement the next draconic measure to limit our freedom.

I think you're absolutely right and that's why I have been saying for quite some time that we should get our shit together and stop falling over so often.

[The Reibz]

I would rather spend cash on making my shit go faster than my body safer.
The way I see it, at some of the speeds we travel at we are fucked regardless. At the 2013 busa launch alpinestars had a airbag suit on display. It was worth over $10,000, thats a new bike or a extra 200hp with a turbo setup. Only cunts with high vis shoelaces and helmet straps would consider buying one.

Again, THIS CLOWN IS A ACC PUPPET. TROLL HIS QUESTIONARE

[Banditbandit]

I think you're absolutely right and that's why I have been saying for quite some time that we should get our shit together and stop falling over so often.

And you still believe that is possible ?? With this bunch of anti-authoritarian, individualistic, anarchic bike riders ???

Well - we do all have our dreams ..

[Murray]

mdutton27 - The most dangerous thing about riding motorbikes is idiots in cars. That's all you need for your research


Don't forget bus'es and trucks which seem to have featured in a large accidents this year - perhaps we can have a survey why trucks feature so often???

[Katman]

And you still believe that is possible ?? With this bunch of anti-authoritarian, individualistic, anarchic bike riders ???

Well - we do all have our dreams ..

Are you suggesting that anti-authoritarian, individualistic, anarchic bike riders are too stupid to know that crashes hurt?

[babysteps]

Not indignation at all, I am fully aware that we are our own worst enemy when it comes to accidents. My statement could have been clearer. I can control how I ride but the biggest external factor we face is poor driving from people in cars. Surely you can all see that?

I challenge you to come spend a day riding around Christchurch


Yup - quite settled thanks to a very comfy chair and I try to remain sunny but I think you might mean sonny?

I can feel you bristling with indignation but thats not my intent. If I look back on 40+ years of continuous riding I have never observed an accident where a car was the sole cause yet I have picked innumerable people from ditches, banks and out of gutters. I'm not saying they don't happen but when they do the bike is usually single rather than in a group so its hardly surprising. But couple this with a historical and understandable reluctance of riders to admit that they screwed up (the insurance implications alone encourage a not my fault line) but I think idiot car drivers are not quite the threat we say they are.

Balanced against this personal view is that I don't ride in cities much and I live in a small town.

[Katman]

I can control how I ride but the biggest external factor we face is poor driving from people in cars. Surely you can all see that?


That external factor is only one that we face when riding.

It's just another factor to allow for when doing so.

[Bald Eagle]

Tried the survey, total boredom fail.
So that's what my MSAC $30 is paying for.

Nothing of value to see here folks, move along please.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[jellywrestler]

We are well aware of other issues affecting riders; rider conspicuity, line painting, asphalt composition, vehicular blindsight, fatigue, etc.
seems a bit like you entirely forgot other road users and their behaviour on the road and their ignorance when it comes to dropping deisel etc....
bit one sided as we thought

[Str8 Jacket]

Tried the survey, total boredom fail.
So that's what my MSAC $30 is paying for.

Nothing of value to see here folks, move along please.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

It's McSAC's - FYI

[Banditbandit]

Are you suggesting that anti-authoritarian, individualistic, anarchic bike riders are too stupid to know that crashes hurt?

Not at all .. I'm sugesting that no anti-authoritarian, individualistic, anarchic bikers will ever "get our shit together"

[Paul in NZ]

Not indignation at all, I am fully aware that we are our own worst enemy when it comes to accidents. My statement could have been clearer. I can control how I ride but the biggest external factor we face is poor driving from people in cars. Surely you can all see that?

I challenge you to come spend a day riding around Christchurch

I grew up in ChCh all my early riding was there. Only serious accident I had was one night in Cashmere Road where I failed to see gravel on a bend because I was frankly outriding the 6V lights on my BSA A7SS... (pushing it at a swift trot would have out ridden them)

Vicki and I spent a few days there in July on the Sprint ST1050 and it wasnt any worse than anywhere else apart from earthquake damage and the frustrations that brings... We had a long tiki tour around central chch and we were well treated but perhaps the gods really do favour the insane?

[Katman]

Not at all .. I'm sugesting that anti-authoritarian, individualistic, anarchic bikers will "ever "get our shit together"

Do you mean "never"?

[Paul in NZ]

Actually - thinking about it... Or at least having it suddenly occur to me ...

The one thing thats missing from the 'safety improvements' lists is suspension. Taking the mighty ST as an example I would guess that if I was to ever get into serious trouble on this beast it would be partly due to the overly soft suspenders. I mean they were probably not that flash when it was new but now its diabolical unless you counter by riding very very very conservatively.

Now I have committed to spending a silly amount of $$ (in relation to the bikes actual value) with RT to rectify this. Not because I will ride the great grey shuffling buffalo much faster but because I (hope) will enjoy the better control and feel very much. And it will be safer particularly if I find myself entering a bend a little hotter than warrents (god forbid) it wont want to wallow about and run wide so much. Plus it will be safer with a load Pillion and bags) which is its entire reason for existing in the shed after all...

I think its fair to say that most stock motorcycles once they reach 3 or 4 years old would be safer with better suspension yet its not on the list. Certainly its a thing I value much more than ABS backed up by me actually promising to spend money...

[Gianz]

I found the survey very informative. It told me that if I spend 50000$ for a Goldwing with abs, traction control, chest airbag and hi-viz, cars won't try to kill me anymore.:killingme

[Smifffy]

I think you are trying to bulshit us more. Given the way you have conducted yourself thus far, that's not going to change.Telling someone you are rebelling, defeats the purpose a bit. You couldn't see the irony when it was spelled out for you, and I assume you are meant to be an educated man.

I really should have given more thought to higher education, it seems it's easier than I imagined.

Like Reibz posting up his survey answers - told the man he was rebelling and his shit got dropped out the survey... For the record I pretty much agree with all of his responses to Q22. I don't ride for any of the reasons stated there. I ride because I enjoy it, and analysing the whys and wherefores of it only serves to suck the joy from it.

We've tried helping with these things before, and all we've ever got was shafted by bullshit artists.


The bottom line, right there!

Even with the aides currently becoming mainstreem, nothing changes.

But lets waste a fuck load more tax payers money, before we address it.

It's not so much taxpayer's money, as motorcyclist's money, thanks to Nick the Prick's levy.


Hello Drew, from what I know there is no push to make "safety" devices mandatory, but there is interest into what makes someone purchase a safety device. Safety devices are only one aspect that can make riders safer. We are well aware of other issues affecting riders; rider conspicuity, line painting, asphalt composition, vehicular blindsight, fatigue, etc. We plan on furthering our research as we move forward and having conversations around those topics, but right now we are starting out of the gate with understanding how motorcyclists perceive risk and safety.

After all of the revenue collected from the levy, after all of the half-arsed non-attended junkets around the coro loop, dung txt campaigns etc, don't you think it's a little late to be only "starting out the gate" (your words) now? Or was Gareth Morgan and the rest of Nick's sycophants truly just there to raise their profile and eat the free lunches? I visited the motonz website again lately to see if there might have been something happening that hadn't been well publicised. Tumbleweeds.

The only person on McSac that ever had any shred of credibility was given the arse off the commintern for actually engaging with bikers and informing them what was going on in the kremlin and the decisions that were being made about our future and our money. Apparently he thought he was there to actually represent biker's interests, and took a fair amount of heat from them, including from me, for it. The apparatus drew him in, knowing that he had helped to mobilise a large contingent of politically aware bikers, tried to discredit him and then sent him to Siberia. It all reads like something from a Le Carre novel.

Millions wasted.

Also if you had taken the time to look around the forum before wading in to make your sales pitch, you would have seen that many things can be entered under the "bike" field, and you could have accurately entered something such as "none" or even your brand of bicycle. Instead you decided to bullshit us, and got caught out by doing it clumsily. I'd have thought someone with your background might have known that wouldn't work well. Interesting to see your profile has disappeared off your company website overnight, need to re-write the cover story?

You might want to check this page out for some pointers:
http://optimalexperience.com/2012/06/101-tips-on-boosting-survey-participation-or-how-to-get-a-first-date/
Strangely enough it does read a lot like a beginner's guide to scamming.

[Banditbandit]

Do you mean "never"?

:killingme: As an anti-authoritarian, individualistic anarchic biker . I'm not sure I'm going to answer that ...

[mdutton27]

Thanks for the feedback on suspension systems Paul in NZ.


Actually - thinking about it... Or at least having it suddenly occur to me ...

The one thing thats missing from the 'safety improvements' lists is suspension. Taking the mighty ST as an example I would guess that if I was to ever get into serious trouble on this beast it would be partly due to the overly soft suspenders. I mean they were probably not that flash when it was new but now its diabolical unless you counter by riding very very very conservatively.

[Drew]

Actually - thinking about it... Or at least having it suddenly occur to me ...

The one thing thats missing from the 'safety improvements' lists is suspension. Taking the mighty ST as an example I would guess that if I was to ever get into serious trouble on this beast it would be partly due to the overly soft suspenders. I mean they were probably not that flash when it was new but now its diabolical unless you counter by riding very very very conservatively.

Now I have committed to spending a silly amount of $$ (in relation to the bikes actual value) with RT to rectify this. Not because I will ride the great grey shuffling buffalo much faster but because I (hope) will enjoy the better control and feel very much. And it will be safer particularly if I find myself entering a bend a little hotter than warrents (god forbid) it wont want to wallow about and run wide so much. Plus it will be safer with a load Pillion and bags) which is its entire reason for existing in the shed after all...

I think its fair to say that most stock motorcycles once they reach 3 or 4 years old would be safer with better suspension yet its not on the list. Certainly its a thing I value much more than ABS backed up by me actually promising to spend money...You know it's 'baggy', and ride accordingly. You're going to do something about it, for the very reason this ,ahem, 'study' exists. Or it's end, anyway.

If only it was compulsary and tested, that riders be aware that the suspension on their bikes is filled with oil and gas. That they knew to have it changed as regulalry as that of the engine, and to question whether it is right for them in it's original setup.


Thanks for the feedback on suspension systems Paul in NZ.Oh good grief, now look what you've fucken done Paul. This arsehole is probably gonna get this out of context too, what with him having not one fuckin clue about motorcycles at all.


Ok, maybe I wasnt' done making a cunt of myself. Sue me!

[Drew]

:killingme: As an anti-authoritarian, individualistic anarchic biker . I'm not sure I'm going to answer that ...If you were as you say you are, you would know damn well that you wouldn't!

I call bulshit!

[Banditbandit]

If you were as you say you are, you would know damn well that you wouldn't!

I call bulshit!

Well - I haven't yet .. but that's beside the point ...

It's my choice to answer or not - not anyone else's to tell me what to do ... or to tell me what an anti-authoritarian individualistic anarchic biker would do ... (how come you're setting yourself up as an authority figure???) ... the action falls where I will ...

[Drew]

(how come you're setting yourself up as an authority figure???)Don't try and paint me into any corner here, I'm an authority in being a cunt, and only being a cunt.

Anything else, I tend to just say. "Fuck it"!

[Banditbandit]

Don't try and paint me into any corner here, I'm an authority in being a cunt, and only being a cunt.

Anything else, I tend to just say. "Fuck it"!

Jeez .. and you're not even very good at that ... you may be a dumb cunt at times (but not often) ... you're certainly not a fucking cunt ...

But generally you're too nice to be a real cunt ... so you're just a faux cunt ...


(What do you get if you wash your cunt with brillo pads ? A bright cunt )

[nudemetalz]

One of the questions made me laugh..."What technology do you have on the bike you ride most frequently?" So, I went out to the garage and looked at the Moto Guzzi.....looked harder,...ummm,......and then came back and ticked "other" and wrote in the comments, "It don't need no technology...."

[Drew]

Jeez .. and you're not even very good at that ... you may be a dumb cunt at times (but not often) ... you're certainly not a fucking cunt ...

But generally you're too nice to be a real cunt ... so you're just a faux cunt ...


(What do you get if you wash your cunt with brillo pads ? A bright cunt ):(That's the meanest thing anyone has ever said to me..Cunt.:cool:

[Drew]

One of the questions made me laugh..."What technology do you have on the bike you ride most frequently?" So, I went out to the garage and looked at the Moto Guzzi.....looked harder,...ummm,......and then came back and ticked "other" and wrote in the comments, "It don't need no technology...."What year is the Guzzi? You could have proudly put "Magneto ignition" if it's pre...ummm...90s I think isn't it?

[Conquiztador]

Don't try and paint me into any corner here, I'm an authority in being a cunt, and only being a cunt.

Anything else, I tend to just say. "Fuck it"!
Just do like a dog: If you can't eat it or fuck it, piss on it and walk away.

[Drew]

Just do like a dog: If you can't eat it or fuck it, piss on it and walk away.If I had a philosophy, that could bloody well be it ya know!

[Jantar]

One of the questions made me laugh..."What technology do you have on the bike you ride most frequently?" So, I went out to the garage and looked at the Moto Guzzi.....looked harder,...ummm,......and then came back and ticked "other" and wrote in the comments, "It don't need no technology...."
I didn't answer that question as it was worded either. I ride the DR almost every day, so technically that is the one I ride most frequently. But I do the most distance on the GSX1250. The DR does about 7000 km per year at my present rate and the GSX does 18000 km per year. I answered the question as though it was the GSX that I ride most frequently.

[Hitcher]

What is a "left turn enhancer"?

[Drew]

What is a "left turn enhancer"?It turns your indicator off for you. I figured that out from context, after about three question pertaining to the friggin thing.

[Ender EnZed]

It turns your indicator off for you. I figured that out from context, after about three question pertaining to the friggin thing.

One day, they'll have it enhance right hand turns as well. Then we'll all be safe.

[Drew]

One day, they'll have it enhance right hand turns as well. Then we'll all be safe.
I dream of the day, but I don't expect such miracles of safety to be forthcoming in small time frames.

[Smifffy]

One day, they'll have it enhance right hand turns as well. Then we'll all be safe.

Not much chance, now they've changed the give way rules.

[Smifffy]

The survey was even more retarded than I'd imagined. Maybe I'll get the mrs to do the pillion one.

[russd7]

One day, they'll have it enhance right hand turns as well. Then we'll all be safe.

FFS my 88 wing has that technology on it, do wonder why they dont put it on modern bikes, i know i often forget to turn off the left hand indicator on the zzr (and the right one as well), must be ole age catchin up with me.
still not sure what a left turn enhancer really is tho, maybe its something that opens the throttle up more to spin the wheel so you get round quicker :rolleyes:

[mossy1200]

This has to be one of the best things I have ever read on kiwibiker. Someone get this man a beer...

If three hayabusas are travelling 270kph+ down the north western and the lead rider has a radar detector and laser jammer is this considered safe? Just want to clear things up

As long as you check your mirrors for zx14r's that are waiting to get past.

[Ocean1]

Let's not fool our selves here. In todays political climate any research done re accidents and safety is done to find out how costs can be reduced and responsibility/blame moved on to others. Normally the research would be used as a basis for new regulations restricting the enjoyment, increasing the cost and giving the authority new ways of punishing anyone who does not agree. As a total cynic I would go as far as to state that whoever is funding these surveys have already indicated what result they are looking for as they are on the look for a reason to implement the next draconic measure to limit our freedom.

Seems a bit over the top. But it's not, even if the primary client thinks they're being scientific their results will always be bent in the direction of their preconceptions.

It's just not that often that those preconceptions are so obvious in the survey tool.


I think you're absolutely right and that's why I have been saying for quite some time that we should get our shit together and stop falling over so often.

Whereas those who think a little more clearly figure that extreme pain is probably a lot more effective in that role.

We should probably also suggest that officialdom should stop disseminating blatant propaganda and outright lies in order to minimise costs for a minority group.

[Ocean1]

The one thing thats missing from the 'safety improvements' lists is suspension.

Aye, where's the subsidy for cartridge upgrades, shimstack tweaking and oil changes?

[mossy1200]

Motorcycles are like farts. They few people that fart near an open flame give the impression that all stinky things are dangerous.

Random response. May contain inaccurate information.

[Oblivion]

"What technology does your current bike have?"

None. Oh wait, Does suspension count? I'm sure I got that.

[nudemetalz]

What year is the Guzzi? You could have proudly put "Magneto ignition" if it's pre...ummm...90s I think isn't it?

errr...2002, so it's got funny fuel injectors but hardly technology.....sheez it's even got a cable speedo drive...

It's got a self cancelling rear light as well as headlight too,..plus a self cancelling engine every nown and then...

[haydes55]

So would ACC encourage new DRZ400E to have ABS as standard?

Should all manner of bikes and all manner of riders be tarred with the same brush? I can't see anyone on an adventure bike just using the road to connect the off road fun bits seriously considering ABS and hi vis etc.

How about a commuter on a gn125 who's never seen 70km/h, all the safety gear needed is a well trained rider and textile jacket/helmet.

I have a way that can increase govt. Revenue and make the roads safer, actually train drivers and riders, stop treating licenses like peoples rights. Get VTNZ to have a training branch and make drivers go through at least 20 hours (just an idea) one on one training. And actual training, like how to navigate a wet bend when you are accidentally going too fast, how to prevent lift off oversteer etc.

How about testing drivers ability to drive more often than how safe vehicles are. What's the ratio of mechanical issues causing crashes, to driver error? License test once then it's yours for life, check a car and presume it's illegal 6 months later. I've seen plenty of crashes and heard of loads of mates crashes. Probably over 20 crashes that I've directly seen or heard from people I know, not a single one wasn't preventable if the driver knew a basic thing about driving or actually focused on driving. None were mechanical failure.

Look at Finland for licensing structure, or Germany. If you so much as fail to indicate within 2 years of getting your license you lose your license and start from scratch and you have to do supervised training. Drivers in their first year of being able to drive alone are over represented in accidents, if they have to start from L plates again if they go 52 in a 50 zone I bet they'll be staying safe and legal. It's simple shit, if the govt actually wanted to reduce the road toll I could take a $100k budget and save more lives with common sense than the past 20 years of stupidity in beuracracy (spl?).

So is this survey about safety? Or is this 'safety' about revenue?

[actungbaby]

My organisation is conducting a multifaceted research project on motorcycle riders across a spectrum of items. We reached out to Simon Gotlieb at Bronz, Mike Dew at Ulysses, and we've had a phenomenal response, but we also want to make sure we are capturing individuals who are not a part of membership organisations as well. This research will help us before we embark on a series of deep-dive qualitative interviews with riders one on one.

I save the money . where all looney tunes with death wish there . study done

lets go get donuts and coffee

[actungbaby]

"What technology does your current bike have?"

None. Oh wait, Does suspension count? I'm sure I got that.

Think am glad moved on from kerosine lamps must made checking fuel tank exciting.

[Road kill]

Don't forget bus'es and trucks which seem to have featured in a large accidents this year - perhaps we can have a survey why trucks feature so often???

I'd be quite happy to share the CVIU with ya' mate.

[Banditbandit]

What is a "left turn enhancer"?


It turns your indicator off for you.


Oh .. I thought it might be some ghey little device on Hondas to ensure your gayness

[Swoop]

It told me that if I spend 50000$ for a Goldwing with abs, traction control, chest airbag and hi-viz, cars won't try to kill me anymore.:killingme
But would you then fall into the "Ghey" sector of society? Is there a seperate survey for Ghey motorbicyclists?:scratch:

[Tigadee]

Who's commissioned this work?
At this time we are not disclosing who has commissioned the project and not to sound like a broken record, but the survey is just one aspect of the project. I can tell you it is funded by more than one agency. When we initially set out to do this work, we very quickly learned that Police, NZTA, MOT, ACC, MSAC, MOH, etc., all caused individuals to change their disposition when they thought they were funding it. Therefore, we decided it would be best to not disclose the agencies as motorcyclists are very passionate and have very strong feelings that could skew the research.


:Oi: I don't think so... If we're not allowed to know who is commissioning this survey/study and our contact information is being collected, and we have no clue as to the legitimacy of this survey.

I'm not buying it. Sounds more like a psychological profiling exercise, or it's a behavourial study, or just a market research tool for ABS...

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm not buying it. Sounds more like a psychological profiling exercise (yes), or it's a behavourial study (yes), or just a market research tool for ACC...

I think the question "would you expect to see a discount on ACC levies" points it to being ACC or ACC associated.

[caspernz]

What I find amusing is that after a few days away, catch up on this, open the survey link and find they no longer need/want replies!! So is it a case of all you whingers completing several surveys each, or they got fed up with the dumb arze responses haha...and closed it??

[Banditbandit]

or they got fed up with the dumb arze responses haha...and closed it??

Or maybe they decided the survey was flawed and not that useful ?

[The Reibz]

What I find amusing is that after a few days away, catch up on this, open the survey link and find they no longer need/want replies!! So is it a case of all you whingers completing several surveys each, or they got fed up with the dumb arze responses haha...and closed it??

Troll Successful. The best tech in my bike is still the 12 cans of VB I consume every ride on my Shitzuki GEE EES EXX ARRRRRRRGGGG

[Drew]

Or maybe they decided the survey was flawed and not that useful ?Funny thing, 'hope'.

They've quite possibly removed the responses from the last week, and are trying to collate the info they have from before.

Someone paid for it after all, and I seriously doubt the designers have the balls to admit their fuck up, and return that their findings don't actually mean anything due their own shortfall.

They will blame someone else, (it's the kiwi way after all), and try for another contract on some other topic.

That seems like the most likely outcome. Yet I remain 'hopeful', that I am in less of a majority than I think when it comes to having the sack to own up to my mistakes.

[Conquiztador]

Funny thing, 'hope'.

They've quite possibly removed the responses from the last week, and are trying to collate the info they have from before.

Someone paid for it after all, and I seriously doubt the designers have the balls to admit their fuck up, and return that their findings don't actually mean anything due their own shortfall.

They will blame someone else, (it's the kiwi way after all), and try for another contract on some other topic.

That seems like the most likely outcome. Yet I remain 'hopeful', that I am in less of a majority than I think when it comes to having the sack to own up to my mistakes.
It only becomes a mistake if you do it again. The first time it is considered a learning experience!

[Hitcher]

Or maybe they decided the survey was flawed and not that useful ?

Wearing a fluoro vest would compromise airbags deploying and probably doesn't do much for extra-marital sex, if the survey's findings are to be believed.

[St_Gabriel]

We are trying very hard to do unbiased research that benefits both motorcyclists and the commissioning organisations.

Freudian slip? Seems to me that that response really is the most telling of all, are motorcyclists and the commissioning organisation usually diametrically opposed???

[Madness]

Considering that I've in all likelihood contributed towards the cost of this "research" through my ACC levies, I'm a bit pissed that I can't at least see the questions. My bad, been too busy lately working my arse off to earn enough to rego my bike. Cunts.

[st00ji]

So would ACC encourage new DRZ400E to have ABS as standard?

Should all manner of bikes and all manner of riders be tarred with the same brush? I can't see anyone on an adventure bike just using the road to connect the off road fun bits seriously considering ABS and hi vis etc.

How about a commuter on a gn125 who's never seen 70km/h, all the safety gear needed is a well trained rider and textile jacket/helmet.

I have a way that can increase govt. Revenue and make the roads safer, actually train drivers and riders, stop treating licenses like peoples rights. Get VTNZ to have a training branch and make drivers go through at least 20 hours (just an idea) one on one training. And actual training, like how to navigate a wet bend when you are accidentally going too fast, how to prevent lift off oversteer etc.

How about testing drivers ability to drive more often than how safe vehicles are. What's the ratio of mechanical issues causing crashes, to driver error? License test once then it's yours for life, check a car and presume it's illegal 6 months later. I've seen plenty of crashes and heard of loads of mates crashes. Probably over 20 crashes that I've directly seen or heard from people I know, not a single one wasn't preventable if the driver knew a basic thing about driving or actually focused on driving. None were mechanical failure.

Look at Finland for licensing structure, or Germany. If you so much as fail to indicate within 2 years of getting your license you lose your license and start from scratch and you have to do supervised training. Drivers in their first year of being able to drive alone are over represented in accidents, if they have to start from L plates again if they go 52 in a 50 zone I bet they'll be staying safe and legal. It's simple shit, if the govt actually wanted to reduce the road toll I could take a $100k budget and save more lives with common sense than the past 20 years of stupidity in beuracracy (spl?).

So is this survey about safety? Or is this 'safety' about revenue?

well said! licensing is stupidly easy in this country.

[mossy1200]

If I was going to do a survey idd join a forum and be a nob for a while. Build up the posts a bit and then start some threads on the topics that hadn't already been discussed in forums. Lets face it you could troll everything you wanted to know here all the way to and including camel toe and nipples.

Now that would be sneaky like the g(5B.

[jorge84]

Or maybe they decided the survey was flawed and not that useful ?

Probably gone back to acc and said fuck those motorcyclist cunts we tried to seek there opinions but they all pissed and moaned about it so once again we'll do as we please and find some other way to fuck them in the arse. add a suspension load test to the wof process and charge us $200 for that. Might go and lube up and get ready.

[Conquiztador]

Probably gone back to acc and said fuck those motorcyclist cunts we tried to seek there opinions but they all pissed and moaned about it so once again we'll do as we please and find some other way to fuck them in the arse. add a suspension load test to the wof process and charge us $200 for that. Might go and lube up and get ready.
Amateurs they are. You put together a max 2 page questioner with the questions you want to know, make it compulsory for all bikers to do when they get their WOF and inside 12 months you have over 50% of all bikers answering it. Job done.

[Drew]

Probably gone back to acc and said fuck those motorcyclist cunts we tried to seek there opinions but they all pissed and moaned about it so once again we'll do as we please and find some other way to fuck them in the arse. add a suspension load test to the wof process and charge us $200 for that. Might go and lube up and get ready.Right there, is a nice bit of getting the wrong end of the stick.

You didn't see the questionnaire I take it?

It was wrong a very basic level. Meaning it's results could potentially have been used to show we as a group supported any initiative they fucken wanted it to.

[Paul in NZ]

Probably gone back to acc and said fuck those motorcyclist cunts we tried to seek there opinions but they all pissed and moaned about it so once again we'll do as we please and find some other way to fuck them in the arse. add a suspension load test to the wof process and charge us $200 for that. Might go and lube up and get ready.

Or maybe remove import tarrifs on suspension components as they are now a safety upgrade.

[varminter]

Now that would be sneaky like the g(5B.[/QUOTE]

You do know that mentioning the GCSB or any derivative thereof will result in the midnight knock and water board treatment?..... Oh shit.

[Smifffy]

what's the bet that now the survey is over, Dutton never comes back?

[Coldrider]

Hello Drew, from what I know there is no push to make "safety" devices mandatory, but there is interest into what makes someone purchase a safety device. Safety devices are only one aspect that can make riders safer. We are well aware of other issues affecting riders; rider conspicuity, line painting, asphalt composition, vehicular blindsight, fatigue, etc. We plan on furthering our research as we move forward and having conversations around those topics, but right now we are starting out of the gate with understanding how motorcyclists perceive risk and safety.Safety devices should be made mandatory. Most of the innovation and technology comes from MotoGP and Superbike. This technology trickles down to 1000cc sportsbikes first. So learners should be made to ride 1000cc sportsbikes first registered after 2011. After 2 years of experience they can ride smaller and older motorcycles which do not have the modern safety devices equipped, and when really experienced can graduate to scooters unsupervised.

[Ocean1]

and when really experienced can graduate to scooters unsupervised...

... wearing black shorts, urban camo singlet and jandels.

[The Reibz]

At what point can you bigbore kit the scooter?

[Banditbandit]

Suzuki already make big and boring scooters ... do a Google search for Burgman ...

[Muppet]

Surveys, intelligence, information gathering is simply taking information that WE give them and then giving it back to us. It's not going to change a single thing.

[BMWST?]

Yes - go here and read this

http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motorcycle-crash-facts-2012.pdf

Things have changed ... motorcyclists are now only 9% of road crashes - down from 21% in the mid-1980s ... and a reading of the pie chart on responsibility (page 4) shows motorcyclists were responsible for 53% of all motorcycle crashes .. other drivers responsible for 36% and in 8% of crashes some resonsibility was on the motorcylist ...

We can't blame other for our fuck ups any more ...


yes we can,its still over 1/3 of the cause ie 1 in three crashes

[Drew]

yes we can,its still over 1/3 of the cause ie 1 in three crashesKeep blaming someone else. Yeah that's a great idea. We'll be taken seriously then.

[BMWST?]

Only 1 in.three times
And I have done things to help motorcyclists take some responsibility,besides surveys and internet slagging

from the tag

[nudemetalz]

q5122. When you were riding to your mistresses' place for a quicky while the wife was away in Vanuatu spending the joint account entriely, did you feel safe with traction control and ABS?

q5123. After you'd finished the bonk,...when you jumped back on the bike, what did you use?
[] Launch Control
[] Awesomeness of pure clutch and throttle
[] lame lazy semi -auto clutch
[] None of the above. The bike wouldn't start due to a flat battery and you caught the bus home.

[=cJ=]

what's the bet that now the survey is over, Dutton never comes back?

I'll be bloody surprised if he does.

Bloody dishonest corporate shill, "reaching out" to motorcyclists my non-ABS-protected arse, asking questions and "not at a liberty to disclose who they're for", I really hope KB managed to pollute the results enough to make a right royal mess.

[Juniper]

Sad panda, its closed!

I pillion and ride and love both.

[Drew]

Sad panda, its closed!

I pillion and ride and love both.Vague memory, doesn't your other half have a ZXR250 also?

Buggered if I'd ride around two up on those little bastards, but looking back to my youth, I suppose I pillioned on worse.

[Juniper]

Vague memory, doesn't your other half have a ZXR250 also?

Buggered if I'd ride around two up on those little bastards, but looking back to my youth, I suppose I pillioned on worse.

I have an other half????

I'm a schizophrenic cat, so I have 27 lives!! Which means we have 27 ZXR250's!!

Anyway no I pillion on a friends Katana. We've done a fair bit.

I've pillioned on my own bike once......and never again. It felt wrong in so many ways!!

[Drew]

I have an other half????

I'm a schizophrenic cat, so I have 27 lives!! Which means we have 27 ZXR250's!!

Anyway no I pillion on a friends Katana. We've done a fair bit.

I've pillioned on my own bike once......and never again. It felt wrong in so many ways!!My mistake, I have you confused with some other noob bird:wacko: