Two-Hour 2013. 23-24 November

[Henk]

I know it's way early to be pushing the two hour a couple of months out but here is the proposed program.

Saturday

Practice

Qualifying for mixed doubles and sidecar endurance

Mixed doubles (10 laps each rider) ladies start first.

Sidecar endurance race. Not sure how long this will be, given the reputation sidecars have for reliability five laps has been suggested. It will be longer than that.

Sunday

Practice and qualifying

Superpole

B grade practice Le Mans start

Two hour practice Le Mans start

B grade endurance race. Probably fourty laps, this can be done as an individual or as a team this year, pit stops NOT compulsory for individuals.

Two hour

BBQ and prize giving.

As ever you can do either the B grade endurance race or the two hour but not both. We will be looking at the lap times from qualifying to make sure the speed differentials aren't too high between the fast guys and the guys right at the back.
Mini motards can't take part in the two hour but if enough turn up we may run a race for them.

This year we would like to have sign on over and done with by 9:30 if possible so turn up early.
If there is enough interest we have the OK to camp at the track but we will need to know ahead of time so we can get it all jacked up. The gates will be locked at night.

Any questions feel free to ask, all of this is an as is right now deal so may change closer to the day.

[boxxer_boy]

Hi

When you say Mini Motards are not included.. does that include Neil and i on the Forza 155??

Andrew

[boxxer_boy]

(((((()))))

[Henk]

Hi

When you say Mini Motards are not included.. does that include Neil and i on the Forza 155??

Andrew

Unfortunately that would be right. If we let one in we have to let them all in and there we too many issues last year with the different lines and corner speeds.

[boxxer_boy]

I know that you dont mean it but i feel that we are being singled out..

I entered the two hour event last year and it was the best fun ive had on a bike. Shawn and i consistently rolled off very good lap times. we not only FINISHED but we managed to get 10th.. If my memory serves me right there wasn't that many "motards" that turned up.

Would you may be consider a qualifying round that if we get under a set time we can race. with Neil pulling out consistent low to mid 31 lap times and me with mid to high 32 lap times would that be enough to let us race?

Henk you have seen first hand Neil and i ride and we are not causing the issues that you seem to have concerns about. All we want to do is ride with you and help grow the sport. If there are rules that you could set down to weed out the riders with the issues then it either

A) gives them something to work towards in the practice days (if they really want to race the 2 hour)
B) sends away the riders that don't actually want to be there.

Andrew

[speedpro]

Going with a plain 107%(or whatever) cutoff would be better. Not everybody takes the same line even riding identical FXRs so that doesn't seem like a great reason to exclude someone. As long as feet stay on pegs and the rider is otherwise safe. Be interesting to read the MNZ rules regarding eligibility as I had a few concerns about what Cully said today at briefing as well.

[Rick 52]

Is it a similar reason the scooters didn't race with F4? They are different .
I think it would be a great class on its own, the scooter racing was great to see.
The elegability of the pit bikes is questionable .
You can buy a good bucket for the same price as a pit bike, the way you guys rode the Fonza to get 10th in the 2 hour, what place would you get with a FXR ?

[Henk]

We're not trying to single anyone out and I'm sure some of the mini motard teams from last year would meet any cut off time we set.
The problem last year was that for the amount of mini motards we had they were well over represented in the number of crashes given the number of these bikes. As far as I can tell this is because they do require a different riding style from a normal bucket due to the smaller wheels, they launch out of corners incredibly well but don't carry the same corner speed leading to them braking earlier than a "normal" bucket, this was the cause of too many crashes last year for those of us with our names on the paperwork to want to see it happen again.
As for the eligibility question that Mike raises, take a trail bike and stitch on some 17 inch wheels and by the book it is bucket legal, buy something that has been designed and marketed as something purpose built for mini motard racing and it becomes a problem if anything were to go horribly wrong, unfortunately in the current legal framework that isn't a risk that we want to take on.
It was pointed out a number of times at the last round of MNZ officials training that the rule book isn't open to interpretation. I know that there are those out there that think we are being way too risk averse on this issue, and on the new rule changes regarding sharkfins etc, but the reality of the situation is that the people prepared to act as clerk of the course, steward etc at our meetings shouldn't be expected to put their houses on the line to pay for legal fees if it all turns to shit.

[boxxer_boy]

we cant race because we are "different" I dont want to sound rude but i have two wheels brakes and an engine..

The eligibility of the pit bikes is questionable? Why is that? we cant run our own race as there is not enough people to run a race. There is two of us who turn up to the meetings consistently and ride. If we cant ride the two hour then why can we ride at the other meetings?

im not going into why i chose to buy the bike i did BUT i own one now and im not going out to buy another bike.

The fact that i turn up and run in the practise days etc, I ride decent lines and i dont take my foot off the peg. Then get told i cant race in a specific race..

Thats double standards

Im not buy all means competitive im really just a rider in the grid.

Like ive said before generate a "trust" group. If you see these riders on these bikes out there riding like they should and playing by the rules you should let them run.

Andrew

[jasonu]

This year we would like to have sign on over and done with by 9:30 if possible so turn up early.
.

:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme :killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme :killingme:killingme

Sounds like a fun day all the same.

[jasonu]

I know that you dont mean it but i feel that we are being singled out..

Andrew

Then go and get a bike that PROPERLY fits the rules and you won't have these types of issues.
When you purchased the Forza you knew it really didn't meet all of the rules and that this kind of issue would sooner or later pop up. No sympathy.

[FastFred]

we cant race because we are "different" I dont want to sound rude but i have two wheels brakes and an engine..

Im not going into why i chose to buy the bike i did BUT i own one now and im not going out to buy another bike.

The fact that i turn up and run in the practice days etc, I ride decent lines and i dont take my foot off the peg. Then get told i cant race in a specific race..

Thats double standards

Andrew

Your not only different but ineligible for F4.

How many times has the clerk of the course said that if you get enough pit bikes together you can have your own race.

The fact that for your own reasons you purchased a non eligible bike, well that is your problem, don't come boohooing around us and as for the accusation of double standards, well there is an easy answer to that too, begins with F and ends with off.

Andrew what you should be saying is, thanks guys for having let us run our pit bikes all year in your F4 class so we can have fun and get a bit of track time.

[wildman]

To the guys running the pit bikes, weld another wheel on and come join the sidecars. your bike would then be legal in our class.:clap:

[F5 Dave]

When one comes be involved in organising these events one becomes aware how easy it is to get burnt out.

The sport and the rules are there for the class.

Meet them, or if you want to start a new class don't expect anyone else to do it for you.

To bleat on at the organisers is just going to make them think its not worth it & walk away.


I've raced a few of these Auckland 2 hours & been involved in an accident with a person that was, well, riding at a pace that was going to cause issues.

[racer40]

Well said Wildman, come join the sidecar ranks, we have allsorts in our class........ Im talking bikes not people... I think.

[Henk]

Well said Wildman, come join the sidecar ranks, we have allsorts in our class........ Im talking bikes not people... I think.

The people on sidecars are all completely sensible so you must be talking about the bikes.

[Henk]

Bump

Two hour and 40 lap B grade race on Sunday, practice, mixed doubles and sidecar endurance race on Saturday.

The Saturday races will only take place if there are enough entries.

Camping on Saturday if there is interest but we will need to know ahead of time.

[Henk]

Not long now, get your non bucket partners lined up where you can so we can show them what real racing is all about.

[goose8]

Any results from today's races ?

Not long now, get your non bucket partners lined up where you can so we can show them what real racing is all about.

[Henk]

Any results from today's races ?

Dave and Nathaniel first
Glen and Av second
Dan and Royd third
Tim and Rod fourth.

[Damien_Toman]

Results from B-Grade 40-lap and the 2-Hour attached.

[koba]

Dave and Nathaniel first
Glen and Av second
Dan and Royd third
Tim and Rod fourth.

What happened to The Henkster and Fordie?

[Str8 Jacket]

What happened to The Henkster and Fordie?

5th again!

[Henk]

5th again!

And bloody good fun it was. Not sure how people do a full hour, I was broken by the end of my second stint.

[bucketracer]

The 2 Hour and the team of Hugh Trenhome & David Hall on number 12 demonstrated how not to do it.

290337

Although they managed some fast times with a best of 29.988

290338

They were all over the place and kept falling off.

In the end they only managed 152 laps while nearly everyone else did over 200 with the pointy end over 230.

Anyone can ride loose, the real trick is to be smooth, go fast and stay on.

Being abusive to the people running the meeting was not that clever either.

All round it was a display of dumb and dummer. :tugger:

[Pumba]

Saw the DQ on the timing sheets. Makes sense now

[Damien_Toman]

The young guys riding number 12 were certainly riding fast and were very exciting to watch and photograph. I didn't see much else of what happened outside my camera viewfinder. Maybe they have been watching the multi-time MotoGP World Champion, Jorge? He certainly stirred up some news at Valencia! I also noticed that they did not reprimand Jorge - just shows that they highly value the entertainment, possibly as much as the safety? Jorge said so himself, sarcastically, in an earlier press conference - now he's into it! MotoGP 2014 will be very interesting, with his new aggressive tactics. Maybe we should not be too hard on the riders who are building experience and trying hard. Were would Lorenzo and Marquez be today if they hadn't pushed the limits a bit earlier on? Maybe we need a buckets penalty points system for riders, like MotoGP and now World SBK?

Damien

[Bert]

The young guys riding number 12 were certainly riding fast and were very exciting to watch and photograph. I didn't see much else of what happened outside my camera viewfinder. Maybe they have been watching the multi-time MotoGP World Champion, Jorge? He certainly stirred up some news at Valencia! I also noticed that they did not reprimand Jorge - just shows that they highly value the entertainment, possibly as much as the safety? Jorge said so himself, sarcastically, in an earlier press conference - now he's into it! MotoGP 2014 will be very interesting, with his new aggressive tactics.
Maybe we should not be too hard on the riders who are building experience and trying hard. Were would Lorenzo and Marquez be today if they hadn't pushed the limits a bit earlier on? Maybe we need a buckets penalty points system for riders, like MotoGP and now World SBK?

Damien

Really.....

We should always be encouraging safe hard riding and rubbing is racing.
But we should not be supporting dangerous stupid shit.
Kart tracks are far to small to take avasive action.
Just remember there are kids out there too; we are responsible for ensuring their safety and enjoyable introduction into motorcycle racing. You don't want to scare them away.

There is no bloody world championships or prize money up for grabs; so bouncing off someone mid corner isn't going to win you any friends...

[Damien_Toman]

I didn't see that.

[TZ350]

The young guys riding number 12 were certainly riding fast and were very exciting to watch and photograph. Maybe we should not be too hard on the riders who are building experience and trying hard.

There is unskilled riding and then there is immature riding, an unskilled rider gets better with practice, but deliberately immature and aggressive behavior on the track and in the pits needs an attitude correction, unlike MotoGP riders, most of us have to go to work on Monday and don't need to be hurt by an idiot.


There is no bloody world championships or prize money up for grabs; so bouncing off someone mid corner isn't going to win you any friends...

This lot were newbees, I have not seen them here before and its been a long time since I have seen any deliberately bad behavior on the track or in the pits, and abusing the organisers.

Every level of rider is welcome at Buckets but not every level of behaviour, my guess is, Cully will stand them in the naughty corner for a bit of time out and then watch to see how they go later.

[Damien_Toman]

Abusing organisers should definitely not be tolerated.

[cotswold]

There is unskilled riding and then there is immature riding, an unskilled rider gets better with practice, but deliberately immature and aggressive behavior on the track and in the pits needs an attitude correction, unlike MotoGP riders, most of us have to go to work on Monday and don't need to be hurt by an idiot.



This lot were newbees, I have not seen them here before and its been a long time since I have seen any deliberately bad behavior on the track or in the pits, and abusing the organisers.

Every level of rider is welcome at Buckets but not every level of behaviour, my guess is, Cully will stand them in the naughty corner for a bit of time out and then watch to see how they go later.

I imagine this is the same 2 that Camil and I had words with a couple of meetings ago for exactly the same shit. I was not there this time so have no real right to comment but if it is the same ones doing the same things I would tell them to piss off and try doing their thing at a big track.

[FastFred]

Team 12, Hugh Trenhome & David Hall need Buckets more than the Bucket community needs them.

There is a realy good atmosphere at Bucket meetings and people are invested in keeping it that way so I am looking forward to seeing how this pans out.

:corn:

[speedpro]

They were fairly fast but looked to be over-riding, going beyond their own skill level and the bikes performance capability. As an observer only, they were obvious. Two of their crashes I saw resulted in small amounts of oil on the track. Not sure if that's normal for a smelly 4-stroke or if the bike needs a bit of prep/maintenance.

[jasonu]

Really.....


There is no bloody world championships or prize money up for grabs; so bouncing off someone mid corner isn't going to win you any friends...

I just read a post about #12 on ESE thread. I wonder why the offenders weren't black flagged after maybe their 2nd or 3rd spill if their riding was obviously dangerous to themselves and others. I was teamed up with Paul Dobbs in a 2hr when he was black flagged, yelled at for overly aggressive riding and let back out to finish the race. We lost 3 or 4 laps but he didn't get into anymore trouble (that day anyway).

[mr bucketracer]

I just read a post about #12 on ESE thread. I wonder why the offenders weren't black flagged after maybe their 2nd or 3rd spill if their riding was obviously dangerous to themselves and others. I was teamed up with Paul Dobbs in a 2hr when he was black flagged, yelled at for overly aggressive riding and let back out to finish the race. We lost 3 or 4 laps but he didn't get into anymore trouble (that day anyway).think thats why my brother was called a steam roller in Auckland ,was 12 from palmy north lol

[Damien_Toman]

There is unskilled riding and then there is immature riding, an unskilled rider gets better with practice, but deliberately immature and aggressive behavior on the track and in the pits needs an attitude correction, unlike MotoGP riders, most of us have to go to work on Monday and don't need to be hurt by an idiot.

Not sure about about being "deliberately immature" but totally agree about the behaviour, attitude and remembering we all want to be fit to earn a living at the end of the racing day. Well said.

Most of us have suffered on the track at some time - from careless riders. We don't want that, for sure. Sometimes we have also made mistakes and dodgy overtaking manoeuvres - hopefully never repeated, having learnt a lesson.


.. my guess is, Cully will stand them in the naughty corner for a bit of time out and then watch to see how they go later.

That seems like a mature approach to me.


Most of us did not see or hear all the shenanigans so I totally accept and respect the decisions of the organisers.

I still enjoyed watching some of their riding - the bits that I did see. The only crash I saw by a number 12 rider did not involve any other riders. I have no idea about the other crashes - no instant replay!

I must say that is was a fantastic day of racing. The fastest ever. On a perfect day. With no injuries (that I am aware of). Well done to all the organising team - great work. Much appreciated by all but the few that step out of line :).

[Dutchee]

Not sure about about being "deliberately immature" but totally agree about the behaviour, attitude and remembering we all want to be fit to earn a living at the end of the racing day. Well said.

Most of us have suffered on the track at some time - from careless riders. We don't want that, for sure. Sometimes we have also made mistakes and dodgy overtaking manoeuvres - hopefully never repeated, having learnt a lesson.



That seems like a mature approach to me.


Most of us did not see or hear all the shenanigans so I totally accept and respect the decisions of the organisers.

I still enjoyed watching some of their riding - the bits that I did see. The only crash I saw by a number 12 rider did not involve any other riders. I have no idea about the other crashes - no instant replay!

I must say that is was a fantastic day of racing. The fastest ever. On a perfect day. With no injuries (that I am aware of). Well done to all the organising team - great work. Much appreciated by all but the few that step out of line :).

the one injury for the day was in practice, around when I arrived (11ish). Poor Sam V.O. Spent the day in hospital with his dad, in his leathers, and came back to load up at the end of the day. His dad had to stay overnight.

[Damien_Toman]

Hopefully fully recovered or nothing major? Any news?
I arrived well after that for the racing.
The 2-hour though was unusually injury free, from what I saw (with one eye shut and the other glued to a camera for most of the day).

[Dutchee]

Hopefully fully recovered or nothing major? Any news?
I arrived well after that for the racing.
The 2-hour though was unusually injury free, from what I saw (with one eye shut and the other glued to a camera for most of the day).

Sam thought he was okay, "just" concussed, but haven't heard further.

the two hour being injury free was a credit to most riding and having a clue, plus quieter grid from previous years.

[speedpro]

Is there a place we can get a full set of lap times? Cricket had the stuffing knocked out of him in his crash but was lapping most of a second faster than he ever has prior to that, and 2-3 seconds a lap slower afterwards.

Don't worry - sorted