Regaining confidence after a fall

[shflbm]

We got a new Bandit 650 about 6 weeks ago. It has since spent about 5 of those weeks being repaired under insurance. Let me explain...

Having only been used to an ER6 (V-twin I think? I always get confused), I went out on a sunny Saturday morning with fresh (read: un-warmed) tires on what was meant to be my first long ride on the shiny new Bandit (in-line 4). This was a week exactly (almost to the hour) after we'd purchased the bike. I went round a corner at an intersection in second gear and evidently should have been in first. The Bandit's back wheel flicked out from underneath the bike and I skidded along the ground, detached from the bike which was spinning. The bike was in much worse shape than I was (hence the insurance job, though it was mostly superficial) - I was not hurt at all and my gear was barely even scratched except for a slight graze on my jacket's right elbow.

The problem is now I have lost quite a lot of confidence and just remembering that feeling of the bike slipping out from under me is not nice. Considering the damage to the bike and what could have happened if a car was behind me/in front of me (luckily the intersection was completely clear) or if I was going at a higher speed is enough to have me re-checking if I even want to continue riding.

We have booked to go on the Pro-Rider course this weekend - I'd already been on it on the ER6 but thought it would be good to do it again on the Bandit and have my husband come along to learn more too.

Any tips or experience from other lady riders who have had something like this happen? Did you ever really regain your confidence again?

[george formby]

Erk, horrible feeling.
My first thoughts on your post were about the bike & the road, new bike, new tires? Camber? Road surface? etc... Not sure how 1st or 2nd gear would have changed things. Oh, just re-read post, did the bike stall & lock the rear wheel? How much time on a bike have you had?

Any hoo. My G/F had a couple of offs which knocked her confidence. Figuring out exactly why it happened, rider error, helped her improve & take nervousness away. Good lessons learned despite the dented confidence & scrapes. She's a better, happier rider for it.

Training... You can't get enough.

A bit leftfield but doing a bit of riding on loose surface, grassy paddocks, loose gravel etc does wonders for bike control. When that back wheel starts to move you learn to instantly shift your body weight to compensate for & minimise the slide. I've always thought it a vital skill for all riders. You never know when your going to have a wee slide & most of the time it's saveable.

[haydes55]

Look at how the crash occurred, now what can you do to ensure the same incident won't happen again?


So did you downshift mid bend to go into 1st gear? That would cause shift lock, basically like pulling the hand brake up.

Or were you on the throttle a bit too hard and the back wheel spun and that's how the bike went down?

Also the ER6n is a parallel twin if I'm not mistaken.

[Ender EnZed]

I went round a corner at an intersection in second gear and evidently should have been in first. The Bandit's back wheel flicked out from underneath the bike and I skidded along the ground, detached from the bike which was spinning.

Could you expand on this part a bit?

[The Reibz]

Don't worry guys, Katman will be along shortly to give us his version of events.

Just take your time when you get back on. Just start off with short trips then progress back into the longer stuff. I know what your feeling though, have had it happen to me a couple of years back.

[Stevee2]

A bit leftfield but doing a bit of riding on loose surface, grassy paddocks, loose gravel etc does wonders for bike control. When that back wheel starts to move you learn to instantly shift your body weight to compensate for & minimise the slide. I've always thought it a vital skill for all riders. You never know when your going to have a wee slide & most of the time it's saveable.


A lot of people recommend this but without going out and buying a dirt bike, or risking ruining our road bikes by dropping them on gravel/ dirt how can we go about practicing this?

[Ender EnZed]

A lot of people recommend this but without going out and buying a dirt bike, or risking ruining our road bikes by dropping them on gravel/ dirt how can we go about practicing this?

Your Hornet 250 is probably quite a reasonable gravel road bike. Try riding on some gravel roads.

[george formby]

A lot of people recommend this but without going out and buying a dirt bike, or risking ruining our road bikes by dropping them on gravel/ dirt how can we go about practicing this?

Very fair call. We started off with a day at "the farm" up here, an off road / school camp / horse trekking / exceedingly fun place. Paid our money, jumped onto some old bikes & proceeded to slide round a paddock. By the afternoon we were out on the trails. Great fun.
All I can suggest is look for the opportunity to get a bit dirty where ever you can, fellow KB'ers, mates in the country, the kid down the road with a PW80 etc.
What you play on is irrelevant, the smaller & cheaper the better really.
Any opportunity which will give you the feeling of the bike loosing traction and the time to learn how to control it. It does not take long, once you realise what happens when you shift your weight it seems to become automatic very quickly. One of those epiphany moments I guess.

I would not contemplate using a lovely, breakable road bike as my starting point. Weight, power & value will stymie your efforts.

Hopefully somebody will pop in & say go here or go there, pay some moneys & have some fun. And go home with new skills.

[Grashopper]

I've been thinking about finding a gravel road and practicing gravel riding, but that is probably not a good idea on your own. I wouldn't even been able to lift up my bike if something happens. It's hard enough on solid ground, but on slippery gravel it's got to be even more of a problem.

To the OP: I think with the Prorider course you're on the right way. If that helps but you still feel a bit unsure, do another course and maybe a trackday. Manfield is a nice track. Sign up for the slowest group and follow the line riders for a bit. MotoTT www.motott.co.nz do really well organised trackdays. The next one in Manfield is on the 19 Oct, so not too far away.

[Katiepie]

You do regain your confidence again eventually, if you push yourself and just get back out and keep riding. First few times you might be a little shaky. That's to be expected. But learn to control your mind and not allow it to wonder over "what ifs" or getting worried over similar situations. Push your mind past that and focus only on the task at hand, the corner you are on (with hazards around yada yada) or the stretch of road you are entering. Within a few rides you will begin to forget about your nerves and just be keen getting back into it again.

All the best - don't let it stop you

[Grashopper]

Very fair call. We started off with a day at "the farm" up here, an off road / school camp / horse trekking / exceedingly fun place. Paid our money, jumped onto some old bikes & proceeded to slide round a paddock. By the afternoon we were out on the trails. Great fun.
All I can suggest is look for the opportunity to get a bit dirty where ever you can, fellow KB'ers, mates in the country, the kid down the road with a PW80 etc.
What you play on is irrelevant, the smaller & cheaper the better really.
Any opportunity which will give you the feeling of the bike loosing traction and the time to learn how to control it. It does not take long, once you realise what happens when you shift your weight it seems to become automatic very quickly. One of those epiphany moments I guess.

I would not contemplate using a lovely, breakable road bike as my starting point. Weight, power & value will stymie your efforts.

Hopefully somebody will pop in & say go here or go there, pay some moneys & have some fun. And go home with new skills.

Sign me up :yes:


...Hm, I wouldn't even know where to go for that around here. Prorider used to do gravel road courses, but they haven't been offering them for a while. Otherwise there is only the pure dirt tours thing in Rotovegas I think.

Hm, on the other hand, I do have a perfectly fine GN standing around here that is currently not being used...

[george formby]

It just crossed my mind what it would cost to hire a 50cc scooter & go find a park somewhere for the morning....


Good point above, too. Don't over think it. Ride your bike, be smart enough to figure out what happened, learn from it & move on in a fun & comfortable fashion at your own pace. Despite rumours, if you give them the chance, bikes will do everything they can not to spit you off down the road.

[Kornholio]

Shit happens, and 'back on the horse' and all that :)

[Drew]

Who fitted the race slicks to the bandit? Because "cold tyres" means fuck all on anything but race rubber unless you're trying to go round corners at warp factor nine.

It's a crock I'm afraid.

[Ulsterkiwi]

my sympathies go to the OP. I am not long riding and managed to fall off just this past weekend. Insurance is still checking the bike over but its looking like a write off. :weep::weep:
I was in the middle of nowhere with no phone signal so had no option but to hop on again and get myself out of trouble. The bike was upside down on its handlebars and the top box was lying a few metres down the road. After hauling the bike upright and a bit of thumping on the now bent handlebars, I was able to travel at 15-20kph the 7kms to the main road. That was probably a bit adrenaline fuelled.
I had been on the way to my cousins place as we had planned a day trip the next day on our bikes. In the morning he got me on his bike just to go up and down his street for 20 minutes or so. It was the best therapy I could have had! I am far from experienced but this has taught me the truth of the cliche "if you fall off a horse........"
Dont let it beat you, get back on, take it easy and you will regain the confidence. Heck we can start a self help group and get our confidence back together! ;)

[Ender EnZed]

I've been thinking about finding a gravel road and practicing gravel riding, but that is probably not a good idea on your own. I wouldn't even been able to lift up my bike if something happens. It's hard enough on solid ground, but on slippery gravel it's got to be even more of a problem.


Riding some gravel roads on whatever you have is by far the easiest way to get a bit of experience sliding a bike around. If you did have to pick up your Spada you'd probably be surprised at what you can manage when you have to. Bikes are a lot heavier when there's someone around to help.



Hm, on the other hand, I do have a perfectly fine GN standing around here that is currently not being used...

But given that you've got a GN as well then that'd be a good way to start. I'm sure they go great on gravel.

[george formby]

Took me a long time to get happy being tail happy with TDM on gravel. The mental thing about weight. The bike gives not a damn but, smaller is less worrying forshore.

What happened to the OP, I'm interested to find out what happened?

[Drew]

Entering the corner too fast could be an issue. If I get in the wrong gear on a tight bend/roundabout I pull the cluch lever in and coast around as often first gear can be too low and second too high. Going from a twin
to an inline 4 would mean the inline 4 is not so torquey on bends which would take practise in getting to know the powerband of the new bike which would likely require more revs than the twin.

Please, never give riding advice again. You never, ever coast around a bloody corner.

For the love of Christ. It is no wonder bikers are killing ourselves in fucking droves!

[oneofsix]

I went round a corner at an intersection in second gear and evidently should have been in first. The Bandit's back wheel flicked out from underneath the bike and I skidded along the ground, detached from the bike which was spinning. <snip



I know I will regret this, keep mouth shut and all that...

Intersection, 2nd gear - no problem should have worked.
Rear wheel flicked out - yeah right! What did you do, drop the clutch mid corner and full throttle? No way that tyre lost traction in normal circumstances. There is something missing here (most will say my brain :bleh:). Touch of front brake? Oil? too slow? grabbed the clutch and lost drive? Be honest, talk about it with your support people but work it out.

I agree with Drew on the cold tyre thing. Typical blame anything but the rider :BS: even frozen the tyres will get you around an intersection in 2nd (not that the gear directly translates to speed) I know your suspension is wrongly adjusted :laugh: another good poor rider excuse.

Remember it is the poor tradesman that blames his tools.

[shflbm]

Erk, horrible feeling.
My first thoughts on your post were about the bike & the road, new bike, new tires? Camber? Road surface? etc... Not sure how 1st or 2nd gear would have changed things. Oh, just re-read post, did the bike stall & lock the rear wheel? How much time on a bike have you had?



Thanks for your reply. 5 years riding but all on the ER6 which is evidently a different beast. The Bandit is a 2008 bike, not brand new tires but cold as only been running 5 minutes or so before it happened. Was on Northcote Rd onramp in Auckland so usual asphalt surface and completely dry. Flat camber. And yes, the mechanic who came to pick us up suggested that's what could have happened as well.

[shflbm]

Look at how the crash occurred, now what can you do to ensure the same incident won't happen again?
Or were you on the throttle a bit too hard and the back wheel spun and that's how the bike went down?


Thank you, I think the above, that was one of the scenarios suggested... that I freaked out a bit, twitched at the throttle and that was the last straw.

[shflbm]

Could you expand on this part a bit?

A few different scenarios have been suggested, as I've thought about it quite a bit since it happened! But I don't know exactly which one it is.

1. Speed too slow to maintain lean around corner or
2. Hand twitched on throttle in second gear pushing the back wheel out into even more lean or
3. Leaning too far or
4. Tyres too cold or
5. probably a combination of all of the above.

The thing was, I'd have been totally comfortable doing this on the ER6 and in fact had. So option 2 above probably makes the most sense as the Bandit has so much more power and I wasn't used to it.

[shflbm]

Your Hornet 250 is probably quite a reasonable gravel road bike. Try riding on some gravel roads.

I never had a Hornet 250. My profile was still on Scorpio 250 until today when I just noticed and changed it to the two new bikes.

[shflbm]

I've been thinking about finding a gravel road and practicing gravel riding, but that is probably not a good idea on your own. I wouldn't even been able to lift up my bike if something happens. It's hard enough on solid ground, but on slippery gravel it's got to be even more of a problem.

To the OP: I think with the Prorider course you're on the right way. If that helps but you still feel a bit unsure, do another course and maybe a trackday. Manfield is a nice track. Sign up for the slowest group and follow the line riders for a bit. MotoTT www.motott.co.nz do really well organised trackdays. The next one in Manfield is on the 19 Oct, so not too far away.

Thanks Grashopper.

[shflbm]

You do regain your confidence again eventually, if you push yourself and just get back out and keep riding. First few times you might be a little shaky. That's to be expected. But learn to control your mind and not allow it to wonder over "what ifs" or getting worried over similar situations. Push your mind past that and focus only on the task at hand, the corner you are on (with hazards around yada yada) or the stretch of road you are entering. Within a few rides you will begin to forget about your nerves and just be keen getting back into it again.

All the best - don't let it stop you

Thank you :)

[shflbm]

Who fitted the race slicks to the bandit? Because "cold tyres" means fuck all on anything but race rubber unless you're trying to go round corners at warp factor nine.

It's a crock I'm afraid.

It was just something the mechanic/workshop guy who picked us up suggested that could have added to the reasons why it happened. I don't think they are race tyres...? Otherwise it would have been a selling point I'm sure they would have pushed and they didn't.

[shflbm]

my sympathies go to the OP. I am not long riding and managed to fall off just this past weekend. Insurance is still checking the bike over but its looking like a write off. :weep::weep:
I was in the middle of nowhere with no phone signal so had no option but to hop on again and get myself out of trouble. The bike was upside down on its handlebars and the top box was lying a few metres down the road. After hauling the bike upright and a bit of thumping on the now bent handlebars, I was able to travel at 15-20kph the 7kms to the main road. That was probably a bit adrenaline fuelled.
I had been on the way to my cousins place as we had planned a day trip the next day on our bikes. In the morning he got me on his bike just to go up and down his street for 20 minutes or so. It was the best therapy I could have had! I am far from experienced but this has taught me the truth of the cliche "if you fall off a horse........"
Dont let it beat you, get back on, take it easy and you will regain the confidence. Heck we can start a self help group and get our confidence back together! ;)

Thanks Ulsterkiwi for your positive comments!

[shflbm]

Entering the corner too fast could be an issue. If I get in the wrong gear on a tight bend/roundabout I pull the cluch lever in and coast around as often first gear can be too low and second too high. Going from a twin
to an inline 4 would mean the inline 4 is not so torquey on bends which would take practise in getting to know the powerband of the new bike which would likely require more revs than the twin.

Thanks cassina. Yeah good point about the clutch thing - my husband does this and has been trying to convince me it is fine. I've never felt comfortable coasting corners but it is something we were going to ask about on the course on Sunday.

[tristania]

As mentioned, don't be too hard on yourself shflbm. It can take a while to get used to the new steed, finding it's limitations etc.
If you get a chance to go to an empty parking lot and do some slow speed stuff it can help, or if there are any handling courses in your area helps to build confidence.
Nice bikes, the ER. Hope that Bandit behaves for you. ;)

[shflbm]

I know I will regret this, keep mouth shut and all that...

Intersection, 2nd gear - no problem should have worked.
Rear wheel flicked out - yeah right! What did you do, drop the clutch mid corner and full throttle? No way that tyre lost traction in normal circumstances. There is something missing here (most will say my brain :bleh:). Touch of front brake? Oil? too slow? grabbed the clutch and lost drive? Be honest, talk about it with your support people but work it out.

I agree with Drew on the cold tyre thing. Typical blame anything but the rider :BS: even frozen the tyres will get you around an intersection in 2nd (not that the gear directly translates to speed) I know your suspension is wrongly adjusted :laugh: another good poor rider excuse.

Remember it is the poor tradesman that blames his tools.

You're right to regret your post - every other person on here has been completely sympathetic and helpful but you aren't. I was being honest - as you'll see above I genuinely don't know what happened but am trying to figure it out.

[shflbm]

As mentioned, don't be too hard on yourself shflbm. It can take a while to get used to the new steed, finding it's limitations etc.
If you get a chance to go to an empty parking lot and do some slow speed stuff it can help, or if there are any handling courses in your area helps to build confidence.
Nice bikes, the ER. Hope that Bandit behaves for you. ;)

Thank you :)

[Drew]

Note I said a TIGHT bend. I have been riding for 37 years and have NEVER fallen off on a bend and should in theory be dead by your theory eh sport!!!!!That doesn't make you a competent rider. The comment I made about us killing ourselves in droves, is with regards to the fact that those who know no better, are passing on the wrong konwledge.

First thing I learned when I went racing, was that if I wasn't on the brake or the throttle at ANY given time, I wasn't in control.

Now we're not racing on the road of course, but humor me anyway.

Turn one at Pukekoe is the best example I can give, then followed by the hairpin at Manfield. At Puke, you come into it fast. Real fucken fast! "Oh Go oh God, we're gonna die" fast. To get round the bumpy mogrel fast turn, you need a lot of luck, or a smidge of positive throttle. Or you run wide, and trust me when I say it's not a place you want to run "a little bit wide"...I've done it when I found a neutral I wasn't expecting. The reason for this is that the bike's weight bias becomes more middleish, and your input is greatly more effective to the way the bike reacts.

To the hairpin. Same but different. You've gotten rid of the majority of stupid speed in a straight line already, but the brakes are still on a little bit as you tip in, and get released as the lean increases. As soon as you're off the brake however, the bike wants to literally ride off the inside of the corner. Like it or not, it's leant over. HEAPS! To pick it up, you accelerate (ya know, with the throttle), and the bike makes it's way to the outside of the turn and ya motor off into the distance swearing at yourself for being such a fag and braking too early.

The second scenario best describes a roundabout situation. Now, with the clutch in and coasting on round, how much good is the throttle to stand the slow moving bike up, and let you sail off swearing about the cunt in the SUV you shouldn't have had to slow for in the first place?

Learn to ride, if you think you have it sussed already, accept my suggestion to never tell anyone else how to fucking do it...Sport!

[Drew]

Thanks cassina. Yeah good point about the clutch thing - my husband does this and has been trying to convince me it is fine. I've never felt comfortable coasting corners but it is something we were going to ask about on the course on Sunday.
Trust yourself! Pulling the clutch in feels wrong to you, perhaps because you have a better natural feel than your husband.

Who's course are you taking?

[shflbm]

Took me a long time to get happy being tail happy with TDM on gravel. The mental thing about weight. The bike gives not a damn but, smaller is less worrying forshore.

What happened to the OP, I'm interested to find out what happened?

Hi, sorry I didn't get any emails telling me I had replies so here I was thinking no one cared and here you all are ;) Lots of suggestions on here... still not exactly sure what happened though. I'm going to talk to the instructor(s) and other people about it on Sunday on the course we're going on.

[Drew]

You're right to regret your post - every other person on here has been completely sympathetic and helpful but you aren't. I was being honest - as you'll see above I genuinely don't know what happened but am trying to figure it out.
There is nothing wrong with not knowing what went wrong, but the "cold tyres" thing draws a knee jerk reaction...because it's bulshit.

Those people you think are being helpful. If they were to lead you astray in a nice and friendly fashion, are they still helpful?

[shflbm]

Trust yourself! Pulling the clutch in feels wrong to you, perhaps because you have a better natural feel than your husband.

Who's course are you taking?

ProRider's intermediate day course in East Auckland. Karel and Kevin are the instructors for the day.

[oneofsix]

You're right to regret your post - every other person on here has been completely sympathetic and helpful but you aren't. I was being honest - as you'll see above I genuinely don't know what happened but am trying to figure it out.

True you have had some good advice and questions from some.
Sympathetic, yep and they will cry for you at your funeral too, is that really the help you want? The fact that you have enrolled in the riding course says no. You were being honest, may be, but you are also being spun BS. Drop the BS, go back to square one. What did you really do? Too slow I can believe, tyres letting go I can't.
Strange bike? Are they really that different? Its not like you went from a scooter to racer, or even a cruiser to a racer, they similar styles rather than worlds apart.
Yeah, I am glad you came out of it unhurt, the bike can be fixed and you say your insurance is taking care of that, hope they do a good job and you are back out on it soon.

[george formby]

A few different scenarios have been suggested, as I've thought about it quite a bit since it happened! But I don't know exactly which one it is.

1. Speed too slow to maintain lean around corner or
2. Hand twitched on throttle in second gear pushing the back wheel out into even more lean or
3. Leaning too far or
4. Tyres too cold or
5. probably a combination of all of the above.

The thing was, I'd have been totally comfortable doing this on the ER6 and in fact had. So option 2 above probably makes the most sense as the Bandit has so much more power and I wasn't used to it.

So #1 could have led to #2 & #3 - 4 were exacerbated? Must be a nasty twitch that. Sorry. But a handful would certainly do it.
Not being used to the throttle travel & consequent power delivery at whatever revs may have caught you out, a bit of an over reaction.

If this happened to the G/F, she prefers to lose the front, though, I would immediately whisk her off to a big empty car park somewhere & get her to do figure 8's of varying sizes in different gears until she got hungry or put the hard word on me.

I bang on relentlessly about this kind of practice but you learn a huge amount about your bike, it's handling & how best to control it in a safe environment with very little chance of coming off unless you go nuts.
On the road it translates into confidence in your bike & your own ability to react properly.
When you go for your training course talk to the instructors about it. It's fun & a great way to shake of the hudus.

[bogan]

Fwiw I'm with drew on this one, if the clutch is pulled in you can't steer with the throttle.

If you feel you need to pull the clutch in, it's more than likely symptomatic of a larger issue that you should address the root cause of.

The good thing is you're still learning and know you're still learning, so any bad habits you may have picked up should be easy to correct!

[george formby]

Coasting? That's when the bike takes you for a ride innit?:rolleyes:

[Drew]

I should say before some fucken pedant does it, that if you're in too high a gear and the bike isn't happy about it, you can "slip" the clutch to let the revs be a bit higher. Just don't completely disconnect the throttle from the rear wheel, or you're chances drop a lot.

[Drew]

Coasting? That's when the bike takes you for a ride innit?:rolleyes:Even worse when it's the sidecar riding you for a bit.

[george formby]

Even worse when it's the sidecar riding you for a bit.

I'm trying to visualise that... Is it like trying to make an old Ford Capri go round corners on the brakes in the rain? The farm gate school of cornering:no:

[Drew]

I'm trying to visualise that... Is it like trying to make an old Ford Capri go round corners on the brakes in the rain? The farm gate school of cornering:no:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJdeYx7py2g

Yeah, slidey slidey....WHOOOAAAAAA.

[george formby]

Need a fatter swinger.

[Drew]

Need a fatter swinger.Na, needed to know the limits instead of doing big drifts to impress the crowd.

[george formby]

Na, needed to know the limits instead of doing big drifts to impress the crowd.

T'was tongue in cheek. As a crowd of one I'm impressed.:clap:

[Stevee2]

I never had a Hornet 250. My profile was still on Scorpio 250 until today when I just noticed and changed it to the two new bikes.

This was a response to my post. After doing some research it appears that the Endless Dirt Biking do hires: http://www.endlessdirtbiking.co.nz/dirtbike-rentals.html-0

Might give that a go, I'm sure it will be different but I assume the skills are transferable? :2thumbsup

[george formby]

This was a response to my post. After doing some research it appears that the Endless Dirt Biking do hires: http://www.endlessdirtbiking.co.nz/dirtbike-rentals.html-0

Might give that a go, I'm sure it will be different but I assume the skills are transferable? :2thumbsup

How d'ost tha mean? Transferable from dirt to road?

If so only a little bit, enough to keep you out the poo if your tar seal turns into something a bit less grippy. Jolly good fun neverthless. Making an effort to learn new stuff & practice on any bike will make you a better rider.

[Drew]

T'was tongue in cheek. As a crowd of one I'm impressed.:clap:So was the crowd of more than one:laugh:

Chur.

[tristania]

This would be a good way to get out on the track and get it over, in a closed, controlled circuit. I will just gently point out that it might be a different story getting out on the gravelly, intermittent, intersectiony, cage-laden zone that is the road.

Track and road-based training courses can be quite different ;)


ProRider's intermediate day course in East Auckland. Karel and Kevin are the instructors for the day.

Edit: That is if it's the on-track course I'm thinking of..

[Grashopper]

This was a response to my post. After doing some research it appears that the Endless Dirt Biking do hires: http://www.endlessdirtbiking.co.nz/dirtbike-rentals.html-0

Might give that a go, I'm sure it will be different but I assume the skills are transferable? :2thumbsup

Thank you for the link. :niceone: They do seem to give lessons too, which is something I'm interested in.

[caseye]

Getting people to sympathise with your having an off isn't hard, most want you to be alright, your bike to be Ok and for you to get your bike back together again and carry on riding.
Some, would like to know that you have learn't from your experience and won't be making the same mistake twice, for many reasons, but to name one, next time you or anyone else has the same experience there may be other motorists involved, innocent people who don't want to be involved in other peoples accidents and who should not be if everyone took their responsibilities to other road users seriously.
So you see the issue of what happened is not being harped on about to upset you or persecute you, it's being raised so you can sort through it and make sure you do know what happened and can categorically say, "that won't happen again".
KB isn't a bad place and most people here are good sorts, plenty of em want all riders to be competent and to keep themselves and other riders alive and enjoying thier craft.To that end they can and will go on a bit, I'm one of them, I guess.
So yes, glad you are OK, will be happier for you and all other road users when you discover what happened and can make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Katiepie]

ProRider's intermediate day course in East Auckland. Karel and Kevin are the instructors for the day.

I have done 4 courses with Karel and Kevin and know you will get a lot out of that day. They are great coaches and Karel has a wonderful knack of explaining things so you understand exactly what she is taking about. Usually will run through the theory of each skill she is talking about then make each particiapnt get on their bikes and do it step by step.

Good on you for booking a course - can't ever get enough training and will certainly help with your confidence and understanding of your bike, and your skill levels.

[cbfb]

I am glad to hear what I said works for someone else too as another poster claimed it was dangerous but not if the bend is tight. The amount of time in the corner you spend coasting is very little like mid 1/4 then re engage gear as you straighten up to exit.

Surely if you're going into a tight bend you want as much engine braking as you can have? The last thing I would do (out of instinct, I am not claiming to be an expert) is pull the clutch. What's the reasoning for pulling the clutch in, i.e. how do you expect the bike to respond to this?

[caseye]

Surely if you're going into a tight bend you want as much engine braking as you can have? The last thing I would do (out of instinct, I am not claiming to be an expert) is pull the clutch. What's the reasoning for pulling the clutch in, i.e. how do you expect the bike to respond to this?

Have attempted to explain that you are 100% right,(Do Not disengage your clutch in a corner) a couple of times now, suffice to say "Drew" yer on mate.

[cbfb]

Have attempted to explain that you are 100% right,(Do Not disengage your clutch in a corner) a couple of times now, suffice to say "Drew" yer on mate.

Yep I absolutely agree with yours and Drews comments, have been reading this with interest, but despite your efforts I think the message might not be getting across completely :(

I think Drew? said earlier on in the thread if you're not on the throttle or brakes you're not in control (or something like that). Very well put.

If anyone still thinks it's appropriate to pull the clutch in on a corner, I would really like to know the thinking behind it, so far I've not heard any good reason to do so, but plenty of good reasons not to.

[mossy1200]

To much over thinking.
Pick a road you know well and ride it when traffic is low.

Prepare yourself when coming to a corner to get your speed and gear selection sorted well before you get there.

[george formby]

The whole control thing, which I totally agree with Drew on, despite a nit pick was explained to me summat like this.

You control the bike when accelerating, you decide on momentum, direction, & control grip.

Friction controls the bike when braking, my nit pick, but we are talking normal roads so have a pretty good idea what the tires are touching & how it affects the bike.

Clutch in, free wheeling, the bikes momentum & mass is in control so unless we hit the brakes & get some friction happening or use the throttle to take control we can only hang on & try to steer hoping nothing upsets the bike more than we are.

Pretty standard stuff & accepted fact since they invented round wheels I believe.

I can only think that whipping the clutch in through a corner is a consequence of not reading the road properly or being in the wrong gear. Well, one would lead to the other. Even just closing the throttle will give you engine braking if your a tad concerned about braking in a corner. Doing this might necessitate using the clutch to avoid a stall if in to high a gear, changing down in the middle of a tight slow corner could cause the rear wheel to briefly lock.
Until proven otherwise it seems to be caused before the actual corner.

Read the above post above me post after publication. Sorry. I'm an echo.

[Drew]

I am glad to hear what I said works for someone else too as another poster claimed it was dangerous but not if the bend is tight. The amount of time in the corner you spend coasting is very little like mid 1/4 then re engage gear as you straighten up to exit.Tell me, have you ever tried to do it differently?

I know I have, by mistake or mechanical failure I have gone round corners your way. Last time, I had hooked first to enter a turn on a mates bike. Coasted round the corner because when I'd initially started to let out the clutch it stepped the back out. I was luckily not pushing the limit and managed to wobble round the turn. On exit, I let the clutch out a tad fast to ride away...Cost eight and a half grand to replace the bike I highsided, and quite a bad feeling in my stomach over the whole thing still.


To much over thinking.
Pick a road you know well and ride it when traffic is low.

Prepare yourself when coming to a corner to get your speed and gear selection sorted well before you get there.Or not enough thinking.

There will always be those who cannot accept they are wrong.

[Drew]

I said in my earlier post I do it if I find low gear too low and second too high and the reason behind it is to maintan balance as I ride a large road bike and they dont balance that well in tight low speed bends. The lady has said her husband does it so it is something that does work for others too.You're an idiot.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/M9MVY8swO5M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[george formby]

I said in my earlier post I do it if I find low gear too low and second too high and the reason behind it is to maintan balance as I ride a large road bike and they dont balance that well in tight low speed bends. The lady has said her husband does it so it is something that does work for others too.

So it's a 1st or 2nd gear corner, in 1st the bike is revving to high, in 2nd to low?

Honest question, I know some bikes have quite a big gap between the two or can be a bit hair trigger in 1st.

[Murray]

Have attempted to explain that you are 100% right,(Do Not disengage your clutch in a corner) a couple of times now, suffice to say "Drew" yer on mate.

"Do not disengage your clutch"?? Are you sure you don't mean "Do not engage your clutch"???

will talk about it 100% on Sunday - see ya then

cheers

[cbfb]

I said in my earlier post I do it if I find low gear too low and second too high and the reason behind it is to maintan balance as I ride a large road bike and they dont balance that well in tight low speed bends. The lady has said her husband does it so it is something that does work for others too.

If you mean your bike is leaning inwards, I would have thought grabbing the clutch would make it worse? Classic example is doing a U-turn.

[Drew]

"Do not disengage your clutch"?? Are you sure you don't mean "Do not engage your clutch"???

will talk about it 100% on Sunday - see ya then

cheersWhen you pull the clutch lever in, you are disengaging the clutch. Make no mistake.

[george formby]

You're an idiot.


I was looking for the one with the bloke on a full dresser BMW..

[george formby]

If you mean your bike is leaning inwards, I would have thought grabbing the clutch would make it worse? Classic example is doing a U-turn.

Half a u-turn in that case, shirley?

If a corner is that tight you need to be in 1st, control your speed with the rear brake but keep some throttle on, just a skerrick. It works, I know this. So does the guy on the Harley.

[Taxythingy]

If anyone still thinks it's appropriate to pull the clutch in on a corner, I would really like to know the thinking behind it, so far I've not heard any good reason to do so, but plenty of good reasons not to.

I've been changing from 1st to 2nd a lot when making left turns from stopped (e.g. at a roundabout). Right up until a couple of days ago when I found neutral. Squeaky bum syndrome lasted just long enough to change the habit.

[Drew]

I was looking for the one with the bloke on a full dresser BMW..Chris Pfeiffer is the guy you are looking for. Youtube that mofo.

He can do lock to lock no handed circle type figure eights, with the high idle turned on, and using nothing but his weight and the rear brake.

[george formby]

I've been changing from 1st to 2nd a lot when making left turns from stopped (e.g. at a roundabout). Right up until a couple of days ago when I found neutral. Squeaky bum syndrome lasted just long enough to change the habit.

Oh that sucks. Done similar darting into traffic when I should have been slower, steadier & more patienter. Amazing how fast you can move your left foot at times, eh?

[skippa1]

I am glad to hear what I said works for someone else too as another poster claimed it was dangerous but not if the bend is tight. The amount of time in the corner you spend coasting is very little like mid 1/4 then re engage gear as you straighten up to exit.

The "claim" it is dangerous, is actually fact. You should listen and learn

[bogan]

I have been riding for 37 years and if it was dangerous I would be dead by now would I not. Maybe it is only dangerous on some bikes and if the lady's boyfriend does it does that make him dangerous too?
If I need to do it I would be travelling between 20-30 km and if you thought I was going much faster that would be why you would say it is dangerous.

Just because you and maybe some others have gotten used to bad riding practices doesn't mean they are not dangerous to recommend to newbies.

[Ocean1]

I have been riding for 37 years and if it was dangerous I would be dead by now would I not. Maybe it is only dangerous on some bikes and if the lady's boyfriend does it does that make him dangerous too?
If I need to do it I would be travelling between 20-30 km and if you thought I was going much faster that would be why you would say it is dangerous.

It's not going to kill you immediately dead, no. But the guys are right mate, it's not the best habit to get into, bikes are designed to behave best in a corner on the throttle a little.

No biggie, it won't bite you unless you're riding over about 80% capability, but there's times a quiet ride can all of a sudden require your bike to be at 90%, and then your way will get you fukt.

[skippa1]

I have been riding for 37 years and if it was dangerous I would be dead by now would I not. Maybe it is only dangerous on some bikes and if the lady's boyfriend does it does that make him dangerous too?
If I need to do it I would be travelling between 20-30 km and if you thought I was going much faster that would be why you would say it is dangerous.

Ahhh well silly me, if you've been doing it for 37 years it must be safe aye:rolleyes:......they used to claim cigarettes had health benefits to :lol:

[Drew]

I have been riding for 37 years and if it was dangerous I would be dead by now would I not. Maybe it is only dangerous on some bikes and if the lady's boyfriend does it does that make him dangerous too?
If I need to do it I would be travelling between 20-30 km and if you thought I was going much faster that would be why you would say it is dangerous.
Firstly, the bike your profile says you have should be sweet between 20 and 30 ks in second gear I should think, although first gear would be fine with your fingers holding the clutch ever so slightly to stop it being snatchy too. But lets forget about that for now.

Doing something wrong for a long time, doesn't make it right. And avoiding fucking it up for that same time, doesn't mean it's not wrong either.

Ah fuck it. I've done my best to explain the error. I hope you never find out the hard way why it isn't ideal.

[cbfb]

If I need to do it I would be travelling between 20-30 km and if you thought I was going much faster that would be why you would say it is dangerous.

If there was a bus coming the other way when you fell off it would be pretty fucking dangerous

[bosslady]

There is nothing wrong with not knowing what went wrong, but the "cold tyres" thing draws a knee jerk reaction...because it's bulshit.

Those people you think are being helpful. If they were to lead you astray in a nice and friendly fashion, are they still helpful?
I have a genuine question.

I feel uneasy going around roundabouts and turning into streets on my new bike. 1st seems too little and 2nd too much. So, I've been in 2nd, pull in the clutch only slightly while still on the throttle so that I don't "coast" hope that makes sense. I feel confused though, feel like I'm doing the wrong thing?

[Drew]

I have a genuine question.

I feel uneasy going around roundabouts and turning into streets on my new bike. 1st seems too little and 2nd too much. So, I've been in 2nd, pull in the clutch only slightly while still on the throttle so that I don't "coast" hope that makes sense. I feel confused though, feel like I'm doing the wrong thing?Sounds spot on to me.

'Slipping the clutch' is a great skill for this application.

In the lower gear, you can do the same exact thing. It will be more ready to give power if you need it, and the clutch not fully engaged will soak up the jerky jerky thing.

[bosslady]

Sounds spot on to me.

'Slipping the clutch' is a great skill for this application.

In the lower gear, you can do the same exact thing. It will be more ready to give power if you need it, and the clutch not fully engaged will soak up the jerky jerky thing.
Phew, thanks, that's a relief, finding the height of the bike and how different it is makes me feel like I only just started riding for the first time again and I keep doubting myself. Cheers.

[Drew]

Phew, thanks, that's a relief, finding the height of the bike and how different it is makes me feel like I only just started riding for the first time again and I keep doubting myself. Cheers.Welcome.

I'm no expert, but someone offering flat out wrong advice grinds my gears.

[Drew]

You sound like you do similar to what I do where 1st gear would cause you a loss of balance and second would be going too fast. The most important thing is that if it feels safe to you and me we keep doing it I feel.
Maybe we have just never owned bikes where it would be unsafe to do this on.

You guys are not doing the same thing, and her bike would fall over in a heartbeat if she lost too much speed and let the clutch out from a 'coast'. Mid size single cylinder like, the motor won't catch up with ground speed from idle very well at all.

[bosslady]

You sound like you do similar to what I do where 1st gear would cause you a loss of balance and second would be going too fast. The most important thing is that if it feels safe to you and me we keep doing it I feel.
Maybe we have just never owned bikes where it would be unsafe to do this on.
I don't coast around corners though, ever, feels unsafe to me,I don't like it.

[Drew]

Her comment made more sense to me than yours so maybe we are but have just expressed what we do differently eh!!!
I suppose it's possible. Except I have said earlier that holding the clutch in a little bit is the best way to solve the issue you have, and you didn't seem to latch onto the idea then.

You did flat out state that you "coast" for a portion of the turn with "the clutch in", after all.

[bogan]

Disengaging the gearbox will result in a "coast" untill its engaged again I would have thought. Holding the clutch in a little bit will still result in a coast would it not? I only do it as I said on about the mid quarter
of "Tight" (hairpin type) bends. Hope the riding instructor can explain it in a way the lady is happy with eh.

Slipping the clutch is not a coast as you still use the engine to increase/decrease speed as required. The slip is there to make the speed adjustments smoother in situations where snatchy chain/driveline or twitchy throttle would otherwise result in jerky speed corrections. Coasting is different in that the rider has no fine speed control at all; all you can do is either engage clutch again with a jerk as motor rpm matches gearbox rpm or apply brakes, neither is ideal when you just want to change speed a smidge.

[bosslady]

Disengaging the gearbox will result in a "coast" untill its engaged again I would have thought. Holding the clutch in a little bit will still result in a coast would it not? I only do it as I said on about the mid quarter
of "Tight" (hairpin type) bends. Hope the riding instructor can explain it in a way the lady is happy with eh.
No coasting when you get it at the right spot, the clutch I mean, and keep the gas coming, if you let off the gas and coast around the corner, will likely fall, well I might anyway...

[swbarnett]

Disengaging the gearbox will result in a "coast" untill its engaged again I would have thought. Holding the clutch in a little bit will still result in a coast would it not? I only do it as I said on about the mid quarter
of "Tight" (hairpin type) bends. Hope the riding instructor can explain it in a way the lady is happy with eh.
There's a difference between holding the clutch lever fully in and slipping the clutch. When the lever is not fully in the clutch plates are not disengaged, they're just not held together as tightly and, therefore, allowed to slip past one another while still allowing some of the engine power through to the drive chain.

[haydes55]

I have a genuine question.

I feel uneasy going around roundabouts and turning into streets on my new bike. 1st seems too little and 2nd too much. So, I've been in 2nd, pull in the clutch only slightly while still on the throttle so that I don't "coast" hope that makes sense. I feel confused though, feel like I'm doing the wrong thing?

My KLX300 might be similar and I found on those awkward speed corners just hold the back brake on and no clutch worked for me.

So enter the corner under brakes (or if its an intersection take off and get into second). As soon as the bike is leaning into the bend, I had the rear brake on and the throttle open only slightly, if I felt like I needed to slow down I would use more rear brake and hold throttle constant. The single cylinder is torquey enough to let it run at quite low RPM and still handle it fine. 2nd gear at 15km/h is easily done with back brake.

The DRZ is different so maybe it needs first gear, higher RPM and rear brakes. Or maybe you're more comfortable with using no brakes in the corner and just clutch slip, but what ever you do, never coast when you're riding.

You're a competent rider, you have enough knowledge now to know what is and isn't comfortable for you and your bike. It's just a matter of trying a few different techniques.

[haydes55]

I just checked a motorcycle riding school website and they talk about using the clutch on corners as "power tuning" as opposed to "slipping" or as I said "coasting" I guess the word coast does create an illusion of holding the clutch in for a large part of the turn which is not what I do at all and I am able to engage the gears smoothly on exit, although with a new bike and getting to know the power band some snatch or jerk does happen which maybe the problem
poster 1 was having as I have had the same issue with new bikes.


"Power tuning" is clutch slip. Power tuning is basically increasing the engine revs into powerband without increasing speed by slipping the clutch to increase RPM while maintaining drive. (Well that's my understanding anyway).

Stop trying to justify coasting, it's wrong. End of.

[nerrrd]

1st seems too little and 2nd too much.

Sounds like similar behaviour to my single. Stay in first and I feel like I'm wringing the bike's neck and backing off even the tiniest amount on the throttle induces a mini bunny-hop from engine braking, clunk into second and the bike is lugging. Judicious application of the clutch is the only way I've found to smooth things out.

Not sure if you's is fuel injected? From the research I've done it seems fuel-injected singles can all be a bit rough at low speeds (I've even seen it mentioned in reviews of the new Duke singles). In BMW's case the consensus seems to be they have to run the bikes lean at low speed to meet ECU emission standards or something. Japan may have similar regulations.

[shflbm]

Yes you seem to understand athough its more of a gear ratio thing than a rev thing. and its in between 1st & 2nd that
I would do it. Hopefully the lady will post why her husband does it. He may do it for a completely different reason for all we know eh.

We have talked about it and don't know exactly why my husband does it and I don't. But as I said we will hopefully glean more info on Sunday and I can post here what the other riders and Karel and Kevin say.

[shflbm]

I have a genuine question.

I feel uneasy going around roundabouts and turning into streets on my new bike. 1st seems too little and 2nd too much. So, I've been in 2nd, pull in the clutch only slightly while still on the throttle so that I don't "coast" hope that makes sense. I feel confused though, feel like I'm doing the wrong thing?

Yes I think that's what my husband does - there's a big difference between touching the clutch to increase control and pulling the clutch completely in. I wonder if all the somewhat nasty toing and froing in this conversation re. clutch around corners is just because of peoples' differing terminology for the clutch being fully in vs. being controlled with your hand.

[shflbm]

I just checked a motorcycle riding school website and they talk about using the clutch on corners as "power tuning" as opposed to "slipping" or as I said "coasting" I guess the word coast does create an illusion of holding the clutch in for a large part of the turn which is not what I do at all and I am able to engage the gears smoothly on exit, although with a new bike and getting to know the power band some snatch or jerk does happen which maybe the problem
poster 1 was having as I have had the same issue with new bikes.

Yeah I think this whole conversation (if you can call it that) about clutch around corners has been a misunderstanding of clutch terminology! Good idea looking at the website though...

[caseye]

For clarity please ask them both, if disengaging the clutch while leaned and in a corner is an acceptable practice.
I'd appreciate that.
For the record, I believe that unless you have straightened the bike up and are coming to a controlled stop the answer will be NO, an emphatic no, at that.
These forums are for all KB and guests to air their views, and ask questions, if things get a little heated there are usually reasons, the biggest reason things get heated here in KB is because those who ride don't want those that advise without a clue as to what they are advising to do so.
There are enough inexperienced motorcycle riders out there without turning otherwise careful and open to learning experience riders into idiots who do things because a fool says it's OK to do so.

[shflbm]

For clarity please ask them both, if disengaging the clutch while leaned and in a corner is an acceptable practice.
I'd appreciate that.
For the record, I believe that unless you have straightened the bike up and are coming to a controlled stop the answer will be NO, an emphatic no, at that.
These forums are for all KB and guests to air their views, and ask questions, if things get a little heated there are usually reasons, the biggest reason things get heated here in KB is because those who ride don't want those that advise without a clue as to what they are advising to do so.
There are enough inexperienced motorcycle riders out there without turning otherwise careful and open to learning experience riders into idiots who do things because a fool says it's OK to do so.

I will try to remember - it will probably come out in the conversation anyway. But I need to know too since it appears the Bandit is too low in first (slow and not smooth) and too high in second to go round roundabouts for example, for me.

I appreciate people giving advice, of course, and the discussions that ensue are obviously valuable. But I don't appreciate why people find the need to swear and call other people names! It's like we're all twelve or something. I guess some people are just used to talking like that in every day conversations so that's how they talk on here.

[duckonin]

Note I said a TIGHT bend. I have been riding for 37 years and have NEVER fallen off on a bend and should in theory be dead by your theory eh sport!!!!!

Fuck it is a WONDER you made the 37 years intact. Drew is right "don't give advise on riding anything at all .:facepalm: Buggar me the shit in this thread is bad for any person wanting to learn to ride well or for that matter wanting to stay upright. Yep I have seen riders and drivers come to grief big time using a clutch at the wrong time, it can and will kill you !. Learn to be in the right gear; not too low not too high.

[george formby]

I will try to remember - it will probably come out in the conversation anyway. But I need to know too since it appears the Bandit is too low in first (slow and not smooth) and too high in second to go round roundabouts for example, for me.

I appreciate people giving advice, of course, and the discussions that ensue are obviously valuable. But I don't appreciate why people find the need to swear and call other people names! It's like we're all twelve or something. I guess some people are just used to talking like that in every day conversations so that's how they talk on here.

The truth is in here shflbm and I think your doing exactly the right thing with your on going training. Only so much you can get from the interwebs. I took up the opportunity of some training awhile ago & was amazed at how it improved my riding. And how much I did not know after 35 years on bikes... It also gave me an appetite to continue learning & improving. Just makes the whole bike experience get better & better.

Now that I'm used to it I enjoy the play ground atmosphere of KB, would never get away with it in real life.:laugh:

[cbfb]

Yeah I think this whole conversation (if you can call it that) about clutch around corners has been a misunderstanding of clutch terminology! Good idea looking at the website though...

No it was just crap advice that started it off: " If I get in the wrong gear on a tight bend/roundabout I pull the cluch lever in and coast around as often first gear can be too low and second too high. "

Don't think anyone would be unclear on what coast means.

But on the plus side maybe it made a few people think about this after Drew etc set the record straight.


But I don't appreciate why people find the need to swear and call other people names! It's like we're all twelve or something. I guess some people are just used to talking like that in every day conversations so that's how they talk on here.

I'm actually quite polite on KB. I'm a proper grumpy bastard in real life.

All the best with your training.

[Mushu]

Well, isn't this an interesting argument, has the OP figured the reason for the crash that started this thread?

As far as the clutch thing, the word coast (implying a fully disengaged clutch, ie no drive to the rear wheel) is what caused the argument, I think anybody with any real experience will tell you that's a no no, to maintain grip while cornering at speed requires you to accelerate through the corner and your better off learning to roll on the throttle through a corner at low speeds so if you ever do come into a corner too hot you have the skill to use all of the grip available.

Clutch in while cornering may be an effect of fear, like when inexperienced riders tend to snap the throttle closed when they find themselves in trouble (which in most cases only makes things worse)

Slipping the clutch is fine, as long as you maintain drive to the rear wheel, but my preferred method for tight corners and roundabouts is to drag the rear brake through the corner and if it works on my R6, it'll work on a bandit.

[george formby]

Well, isn't this an interesting argument, has the OP figured the reason for the crash that started this thread?

As far as the clutch thing, the word coast (implying a fully disengaged clutch, ie no drive to the rear wheel) is what caused the argument, I think anybody with any real experience will tell you that's a no no, to maintain grip while cornering at speed requires you to accelerate through the corner and your better off learning to roll on the throttle through a corner at low speeds so if you ever do come into a corner too hot you have the skill to use all of the grip available.

Clutch in while cornering may be an effect of fear, like when inexperienced riders tend to snap the throttle closed when they find themselves in trouble (which in most cases only makes things worse)

Slipping the clutch is fine, as long as you maintain drive to the rear wheel, but my preferred method for tight corners and roundabouts is to drag the rear brake through the corner and if it works on my R6, it'll work on a bandit.

Their is a plan D, too. Maintain a steady throttle & lean it in some mawr. Unless of course you think a safety margin is the vertical line on a piece of paper.:whistle:

[Mushu]

Their is a plan D, too. Maintain a steady throttle & lean it in some mawr. Unless of course you think a safety margin is the vertical line on a piece of paper.:whistle:

A slight roll on the throttle allows more grip to be available, doesn't have to be much, constant throttle still allows the bike to slow through the corner, putting unnecessary stress on the front tire at that point even a slight loss of grip can put you off.

If accelerating hard enough front wheel grip is doing bugger all and a rear wheel slide is easily recoverable. Have a look how the guys who race do things, whatever works on a race track works on the road as long as you remove speed.

[shflbm]

Their is a plan D, too. Maintain a steady throttle & lean it in some mawr. Unless of course you think a safety margin is the vertical line on a piece of paper.:whistle:

Plan D was what I tried on this particular occasion! Still trying to figure out what went wrong...

[george formby]

Works in a car park, too. I think it was Teach Mcneil.. memory might be sketchy, said after a demonstration that if it works at 20kmh it will work at 120kmh.
It was at a motogymkhana day & if memory serves he rode part of the course facing backwards on the bike. Messed with my head that did.

[george formby]

Plan D was what I tried on this particular occasion! Still trying to figure out what went wrong...



That indeed is what you need to figure out. No doubt when you do you will turn a corner, excuse the pun, and be a bit happier with the bike. It seems to boil down to too much or too little throttle. Might have got my to's mixed up there.:confused: You would have to be an awfully long way over to run out of tire. Speaking of which, have you looked at the back tire for clues? If it spun out with to much throttle you can probably see it.

I rolled off the G/F's bike recently, doing some practice. First time ever that I have bit the dust with no warning. At the start of the second I was up, full lock, leaned over to the max (I know this:facepalm:), at the end of the second I was lying down, nothing in between. I ran out of front tire but had no sensation of it washing out because I was at full lock.

Make a point of discussing your topple on Sunday, getting to the bottom of it and learning how to avoid it in future.
Their are only a couple of reasons why it happened despite the chewing & meandering in this thread.

[shflbm]

That indeed is what you need to figure out. No doubt when you do you will turn a corner, excuse the pun, and be a bit happier with the bike. It seems to boil down to too much or too little throttle. Might have got my to's mixed up there.:confused: You would have to be an awfully long way over to run out of tire. Speaking of which, have you looked at the back tire for clues? If it spun out with to much throttle you can probably see it.

I rolled off the G/F's bike recently, doing some practice. First time ever that I have bit the dust with no warning. At the start of the second I was up, full lock, leaned over to the max (I know this:facepalm:), at the end of the second I was lying down, nothing in between. I ran out of front tire but had no sensation of it washing out because I was at full lock.

Make a point of discussing your topple on Sunday, getting to the bottom of it and learning how to avoid it in future.
Their are only a couple of reasons why it happened despite the chewing & meandering in this thread.

The guy who came to pick us up looked at the back tire and said that the scratch on there was evident of it 'running out'. More and more I'm thinking what happened is I was in second gear at too low revs and leaning too far. Bike didn't have enough inertia to keep going upright so it just... sat down. That's what I'm thinking. Because I know that if I did the same thing on the ER6 it would have been fine, and that's (I think) because it's got more torque at low revs.

[george formby]

The guy who came to pick us up looked at the back tire and said that the scratch on there was evident of it 'running out'. More and more I'm thinking what happened is I was in second gear at too low revs and leaning too far. Bike didn't have enough inertia to keep going upright so it just... sat down. That's what I'm thinking. Because I know that if I did the same thing on the ER6 it would have been fine, and that's (I think) because it's got more torque at low revs.

I ride a twin & know that it will happily pull from just above idle in 2nd & 3rd. That's why I like it, it's lazy. I stand to be corrected but I don't think this a forte of middleweight fours, even mildly tuned ones. Been years since I rode one & that was a CBR which liked revs.
Seems like we're moving ahead. Interested to read the take from other contributors.

[Mushu]

I ride a twin & know that it will happily pull from just above idle in 2nd & 3rd. That's why I like it, it's lazy. I stand to be corrected but I don't think this a forte of middleweight fours, even mildly tuned ones. Been years since I rode one & that was a CBR which liked revs.
Seems like we're moving ahead. Interested to read the take from other contributors.

My R6 has less pull down low than these bandits and it still pulls quite happily from just above idle in the first 3 gears, obviously it's quite gutless under about 10000rpm compared to when it gets up and going but more than enough power to keep it moving.

It sounds like the OP could spend some time in a car park or similar place to pick up confidence at low speed. It will be interesting to see what the riding instructor makes of all this.

[george formby]

My R6 has less pull down low than these bandits and it still pulls quite happily from just above idle in the first 3 gears, obviously it's quite gutless under about 10000rpm compared to when it gets up and going but more than enough power to keep it moving.

It sounds like the OP could spend some time in a car park or similar place to pick up confidence at low speed. It will be interesting to see what the riding instructor makes of all this.

TBH, most riders I know could use that time. Any bad habits or weak skills stick out like a mutts nuts.

[skippa1]

You missed the post where the lady said her boyfriend does it to. Or perhaps what I percieve to be coasting is actually slipping the clutch which is ok with Drew. Not everyone is into automotive termanology.

Stop using her boyfriend as your backup. Coasting is coasting and stop giving riding advice

[bogan]

You missed the post where the lady said her boyfriend does it to. Or perhaps what I percieve to be coasting is actually slipping the clutch which is ok with Drew. Not everyone is into automotive termanology.

No need to get your panties in a wad then. You gave bad advice, and people rightfully pulled you up on it, maybe pick up a dictionary first next time...

[mossy1200]

Not a lot of point arguing about it. If cost is taken as clutch lever fully pulled in then it would not be my method of cornering. Its most likely going to lead to idling revs that when the clutch is released will break rear wheel traction as it tries to decelerate the bike or not enough g force to keep it upright while on a lean. Slipping the clutch is different but for an inexperienced rider its not a good idea either. Its possible that some people think that first gear mid revs sounds like your killing the bike but second gear almost no revs is a lot worse.

[PrincessBandit]

I understand that many of the posts on here are designed to be helpful, but men in particular can you think through why some of our women riders prefer to post in Biker Angels? Sure, the hard talk might be "correct" and "better to keep you alive", but not everyone wants the hobnail boots down the throat.

Blokes, if you want to abuse the shit out of each other there are plenty of other forums to do it in than us girlies' one.

Not everyone wants their advice (even if it's actually good) to be delivered by sledgehammer. Only some of us can cope with that...

[george formby]

I understand that many of the posts on here are designed to be helpful, but men in particular can you think through why some of our women riders prefer to post in Biker Angels? Sure, the hard talk might be "correct" and "better to keep you alive", but not everyone wants the hobnail boots down the throat.

Blokes, if you want to abuse the shit out of each other there are plenty of other forums to do it in than us girlies' one.

Not everyone wants their advice (even if it's actually good) to be delivered by sledgehammer. Only some of us can cope with that...

I quite enjoy wearing my G/F's stuff when she's at work, titillated actually. Would that qualify? She's good on a bike. :niceone:

Is this thread in the girlie forum? I was recently accused of playing gay soccer... might be summit goin on.

I jest.

Pause for thought. Why is my better half not a convert to KB? Will set her up & refuse to cook her tea or do the laundry until she contributes. I would love to read what she has not told me over the last couple of years.

[mossy1200]

Is this thread in the girlie forum? .

Yeah it is but I surf recent posts so I didn't look until you mentioned it.
I think that's not important if the responses are about helping with constructive advice related to the original OP.

Am I wrong though?

[george formby]

Yeah it is but I surf recent posts so I didn't look until you mentioned it.
I think that's not important if the responses are about helping with constructive advice related to the original OP.

Am I wrong though?

Na, not at all.
The post above?
If the number of years riding was all it took to be good at it, the average age of the MotoGP grid would be 80.

[mossy1200]

Na, not at all.
The post above?
If the number of years riding was all it took to be good at it, the average age of the MotoGP grid would be 80.

I just think that coasting a corner and even more so for a newer rider sounds a bit of a bad idea myself. Maybe what works for some doesn't for others.

The more I think about it, its most likely the different type of bike and gear ratios and lack of torque left the op with not enough power and traction to retain the angle while turning.

[bogan]

How on earth can 37 years experience be bad advise??? You and your mates cant handle opposing view points or possible opposing view points eh?

Because it took a lengthy discussion to figure out you meant clutch slipping and not coasting, unclear or misleading advice is bad advice, regardless of how much experience the adviser has.


I understand that many of the posts on here are designed to be helpful, but men in particular can you think through why some of our women riders prefer to post in Biker Angels? Sure, the hard talk might be "correct" and "better to keep you alive", but not everyone wants the hobnail boots down the throat.

Blokes, if you want to abuse the shit out of each other there are plenty of other forums to do it in than us girlies' one.

Not everyone wants their advice (even if it's actually good) to be delivered by sledgehammer. Only some of us can cope with that...

From a moderation perspective, the whole of kiwibiker is woefully under-moderated; for some it is why they like it, for others it is why they dislike it, in either case, why should this subforum be an exception?

[PrincessBandit]

From a moderation perspective, the whole of kiwibiker is woefully under-moderated; for some it is why they like it, for others it is why they dislike it, in either case, why should this subforum be an exception?

Oh my darling, surely you jest. Don't be such a tease. Woefully under-moderated? We deliberately walk a fine line between what some would call under-moderated and heavy handed.

As for why should this subforum be any different? It's because we have boobies and va-jayjays but still ride bikes - we sometimes like to have discussions without penises and testosterone laden balls ruling people's digital key-punching.

[george formby]

I just think that coasting a corner and even more so for a newer rider sounds a bit of a bad idea myself. Maybe what works for some doesn't for others.

The more I think about it, its most likely the different type of bike and gear ratios and lack of torque left the op with not enough power and traction to retain the angle while turning.

"Na, not at all" was my way of saying I agree. Soz for any confusion.

[bogan]

Oh my darling, surely you jest. Don't be such a tease. Woefully under-moderated? We deliberately walk a fine line between what some would call under-moderated and heavy handed.

As for why should this subforum be any different? It's because we have boobies and va-jayjays but still ride bikes - we sometimes like to have discussions without penises and testosterone laden balls ruling people's digital key-punching.

Rant and rave might be about right (and PD is fine of course), but all the other subforums, the line should be tightened up a lot.

Sounds a bit sexist to me, a lot of guys would probably like the same thing, but where is our refuge?

[PrincessBandit]

Rant and rave might be about right (and PD is fine of course), but all the other subforums, the line should be tightened up a lot.

Sounds a bit sexist to me, a lot of guys would probably like the same thing, but where is our refuge?

Perhaps. Not really sure about where a man can take refuge to have solely grown up, civil conversations around here. But given that Biker Angels is specifically designed for women to have a less threatening place to post and talk, it is only one subforum out of how many? Obviously guys do post in there too but if we want rough'n'tumble we foot it with the blokies in all the other forums (and don't call the waaahmbulance if we can't take the heat).

having said that, (1) there are guidelines for what is not acceptable (see site rules) and (2) mods understand that keeping 100% of the people happy 100% of the time is an impossibility therefore we try not to lose too much sleep over it.

[mossy1200]

"Na, not at all" was my way of saying I agree. Soz for any confusion.

My bad. I was only posting and quoted your last comment by accident.

I was thinking about trying to cost a corner but I get a little bit of a funny feeling in my tummy even thinking about what might happen.
I do change gear in corner exits sometimes but never mid corner. Saying that. Years of riding and clutch control is the forgiving factor.

[mossy1200]

Perhaps. Not really sure about where a man can take refuge to have solely grown up, civil conversations around here. But given that Biker Angels is specifically designed for women to have a less threatening place to post and talk, it is only one subforum out of how many? Obviously guys do post in there too but if we want rough'n'tumble we foot it with the blokies in all the other forums (and don't call the waaahmbulance if we can't take the heat).

having said that, (1) there are guidelines for what is not acceptable (see site rules) and (2) mods understand that keeping 100% of the people happy 100% of the time is an impossibility therefore we try not to lose too much sleep over it.

We should make an effort in every forum really. Saying that im a member in a few different sites and the continual posting within Kiwi Biker makes it the best site by far. Even if it gets a little rough at times.

Lets be honest. People are posting this thread because its a great topic to post about.

[98tls]

We should make an effort in every forum really. Saying that im a member in a few different sites and the continual posting within Kiwi Biker makes it the best site by far. Even if it gets a little rough at times.

Lets be honest. People are posting this thread because its a great topic to post about.

:shit:Fuck what a let down,i was hopeful of boobies n whatever princess was banging on about...

[mossy1200]

:shit:Fuck what a let down,i was hopeful of boobies n whatever princess was banging on about...

That's why im a member in other sites. For boobies.

[george formby]

. Saying that. Years of riding and clutch control is the forgiving factor.




:sweatdrop:pinch: You sure, really, really?;)

[mossy1200]

:sweatdrop:pinch: You sure, really, really?;)

:shutup::sick: NO. Might be luck.

[Erelyes]

How on earth can 37 years experience be bad advise???

How long does a 37 year old bad habit take to break cassina? It's taking you a while to even realise there's a fleeting chance you might have something else to learn.

[actungbaby]

We got a new Bandit 650 about 6 weeks ago. It has since spent about 5 of those weeks being repaired under insurance. Let me explain...

Having only been used to an ER6 (V-twin I think? I always get confused), I went out on a sunny Saturday morning with fresh (read: un-warmed) tires on what was meant to be my first long ride on the shiny new Bandit (in-line 4). This was a week exactly (almost to the hour) after we'd purchased the bike. I went round a corner at an intersection in second gear and evidently should have been in first. The Bandit's back wheel flicked out from underneath the bike and I skidded along the ground, detached from the bike which was spinning. The bike was in much worse shape than I was (hence the insurance job, though it was mostly superficial) - I was not hurt at all and my gear was barely even scratched except for a slight graze on my jacket's right elbow.



Any tips or experience from other lady riders who have had something like this happen? Did you ever really regain your confidence again?

Well am no lady ;-) but you know these things can happen i found you dont repeat the same mistake,s twice.

my best advice get back on your bike just go for a spin around the block.

I whoud not have throught, being wrong gear whould been that critical .

I had serious accident and i was nervious for a time but you get over it , i wasint injured though.

I personally think thinking about it was normal if you just went out not care world did the same things over and over .

Be more of a issue .

[Drew]

I understand that many of the posts on here are designed to be helpful, but men in particular can you think through why some of our women riders prefer to post in Biker Angels? Sure, the hard talk might be "correct" and "better to keep you alive", but not everyone wants the hobnail boots down the throat.

Blokes, if you want to abuse the shit out of each other there are plenty of other forums to do it in than us girlies' one.

Not everyone wants their advice (even if it's actually good) to be delivered by sledgehammer. Only some of us can cope with that...Your brother has done an exceptional job, of pointing out that the sledgehammer method gets results.


How on earth can 37 years experience be bad advise??? You and your mates cant handle opposing view points or possible opposing view points eh?Wait, now you don't do what we were talking about by slipping the clutch, now that another chick has come in and told us not to bully you?

If you don't even know what the fuck you do, why would you argue at all when told to shut your trap instead of giving advice.

Yes, I'm a cunt. Also yes, I'm fucken right!


Perhaps. Not really sure about where a man can take refuge to have solely grown up, civil conversations around here. But given that Biker Angels is specifically designed for women to have a less threatening place to post and talk, it is only one subforum out of how many? Obviously guys do post in there too but if we want rough'n'tumble we foot it with the blokies in all the other forums (and don't call the waaahmbulance if we can't take the heat).

having said that, (1) there are guidelines for what is not acceptable (see site rules) and (2) mods understand that keeping 100% of the people happy 100% of the time is an impossibility therefore we try not to lose too much sleep over it.Grown up and civil? Are you fucking joking? The shit that's gone down and come about, from the chicks in here is fucken unbelievable sometimes. Bitches be trippin, and you fucking know it.


How long does a 37 year old bad habit take to break cassina? It's taking you a while to even realise there's a fleeting chance you might have something else to learn.Forget it I reckon. Lost cause.

This being posted in biker angels seems like an epic fucken fail to me, if the OP was in earnest looking for advice. I didn't actually realise, as like Mossy I perk my interest from the new posts feed. But the BULK of the knowledge on this site, comes from the masculine I'm afraid. There's less chicks, and the majority of those just aren't as confident on a bike.

[Drew]

Well am no lady ;-) but you know these things can happen i found you dont repeat same mistake

twice so you know you be okay . best advice get back on your bike just go for a spin around the

block. i whoudint throught being wrong gear whould been that critical .

I had serious accident and i was nervious for a time but you get over it . in away being

slighty defensive good think and with few rides and time you be fine .Bro, would you please slow down when you type, or stop posting from your phone.

I get a bloody headache trying to decipher your posts sometimes.:laugh:

[actungbaby]

Bro, would you please slow down when you type, or stop posting from your phone.

I get a bloody headache trying to decipher your posts sometimes.:laugh:

i fix it up cant help got a busy mind am on the pc sold all me phones ;-)

[Mushu]

I'll fix it up, I cant help it, I have a busy mind.
I am on the pc as I sold all my phones ;-)

that^ is English, I don't know what language it is you speak but I don't think anybody here gets half of what you're saying. And I post from a phone.


Bro, would you please slow down when you type, or stop posting from your phone.

I get a bloody headache trying to decipher your posts sometimes.:laugh:

You're wasting you're time lol

[PrincessBandit]

Your brother has done an exceptional job, of pointing out that the sledgehammer method gets results.

It depends on who it is being used on; and he ain't the only one around here who wields one.


Grown up and civil? Are you fucking joking? The shit that's gone down and come about, from the chicks in here is fucken unbelievable sometimes. Bitches be trippin, and you fucking know it.

Forget it I reckon. Lost cause.

Hey, I'm only one person. Grown up and civil is something lots of members here struggle with but it's part of what many people also seem to enjoy in a masochistic way.

This being posted in biker angels seems like an epic fucken fail to me, if the OP was in earnest looking for advice. I didn't actually realise, as like Mossy I perk my interest from the new posts feed. But the BULK of the knowledge on this site, comes from the masculine I'm afraid. There's less chicks, and the majority of those just aren't as confident on a bike.

You are right in that, by sheer numbers, there are by far more guys than women here. No surprise really. As far as confidence is concerned comparing men and women, I think you'll find that women probably tend to ride more conservatively than men rather than automatically "less confidently".

[Drew]

You are right in that, by sheer numbers, there are by far more guys than women here. No surprise really. As far as confidence is concerned comparing men and women, I think you'll find that women probably tend to ride more conservatively than men rather than automatically "less confidently".

Semantics.

Dudes are in greater supply, and usually have done more shit on bikes.

[haydes55]

Semantics.

Dudes are in greater supply, and usually have done more shit on bikes.


Dudes have more experience with crashes.

[PrincessBandit]

Semantics.

Dudes are in greater supply, and usually have done more shit on bikes.

Semen-tics? yeah nah

"more shit on bikes" dem's your words not mine

[skippa1]

Semantics.

Dudes are in greater supply, and usually have done more shit on bikes.

^^^^he's right

[Gremlin]

Back on topic please... and play nice in the Angels section.

[Drew]

Back on topic please... and play nice in the Angels section.Yeah, because they never lower the fucken tone.

[bittertwistedcute]

We got a new Bandit 650 about 6 weeks ago. It has since spent about 5 of those weeks being repaired under insurance. Let me explain...
.....
Any tips or experience from other lady riders who have had something like this happen? Did you ever really regain your confidence again?

Hi

you will be zooming around on your training course by now, those things are gold for confidence!
Each time I get a new bike I like to do one, or at least do laps around an empty track or large empty parking lot.
My experience of going from a twin (which I loved) to a bandit (which I didn't) back to a twin, and now settling on an IL4 for the last two years. I found there was a bit of difference in the way I rode the twins, the SV was like a tractor, and I felt safe and confident
Getting on the cbr was a learning curve, love it now tho.
I did drop him in a corner, not enough on the gas and elegantly leaned over, looked like he was napping ; )
Luckily I had the chance to pick him up and keep riding, I wasn't hurt and there wasn't any real damage. Whatever you do, you will get to know your bike, and you will work out what happened, just keep riding,keep learning and smile lots! Riding is always better when you are having fun.
Tyre type and temp do make a difference, when my tyres are cold I am more cautious, after a few wee scares. Anyway, get to know your bike, have a great time, push your luck a little every now and then, and stay safe

[shflbm]

Yeah it is but I surf recent posts so I didn't look until you mentioned it.
I think that's not important if the responses are about helping with constructive advice related to the original OP.

Am I wrong though?

Hmmm not wrong as such.... but there IS a reason I originally posted in here and not just in the general forums. Good advice is good advice full-stop, but when it's paired with sexual innuendos and subtle (and not-so-subtle) put-downs it is not right, especially in the Biker Angels section.

[shflbm]

Because it took a lengthy discussion to figure out you meant clutch slipping and not coasting, unclear or misleading advice is bad advice, regardless of how much experience the adviser has.



From a moderation perspective, the whole of kiwibiker is woefully under-moderated; for some it is why they like it, for others it is why they dislike it, in either case, why should this subforum be an exception?

Because it was specifically designed to be that way - read the original post that set it up.

[shflbm]

Rant and rave might be about right (and PD is fine of course), but all the other subforums, the line should be tightened up a lot.

Sounds a bit sexist to me, a lot of guys would probably like the same thing, but where is our refuge?

Make one. This is a lame excuse and you know it. It seems like only the other 90 % of kiwibiker is made up from a male perspective. But if you want to start a male sub-forum go for it! What's your excuse?

[shflbm]

Back on topic please... and play nice in the Angels section.

Thanks Gremlin :)

[shflbm]

Hi


I did drop him in a corner, not enough on the gas and elegantly leaned over, looked like he was napping ; )
\

Fairly certain this is what I had the Bandit do. Will post again shortly on course outcome. Thanks.

[shflbm]

Strangely enough... my profile seems to have changed to Scooter Boy. Not sure why - is it related to how many times you contribute to a thread?

Anyway, as promised, yesterday was great. I started the day on the ER6 with about 5 % of my pre-fall confidence. I even had a mini meltdown in front of the other 6 attendees and the two instructors. They had us do emergency braking exercises, but this wasn't the thing freaking me out. After the braking exercise we had to carry on down the road and do a u-turn, and then another one at the start, to turn around and get in line for more braking. I really dislike u-turns and with my confidence so low I just psyched myself out. HOWEVER I continued... and didn't fall off. Huzzah! I even aced a couple of u-turns, reminding me that I actually had them down quite nicely before I lost my confidence.

By the end of the day I reckon my confidence was regained to about 85 %. I was tempted to ride the Bandit home (my husband did the course on it) but wasn't 100 % so continued on the ER6. My plan now is to get back up to 100 % on the ER6, then start on the Bandit again. We are also ordering shorty levers for the Bandit since the clutch is wide and tough compared to the ER6 and I have little hands (and yes, it is adjusted as close in as it can go at the moment and even my husband finds it hard). Apparently they take about 2 weeks to get in so once they are on it should be a perfect time to get back on the Bandit.

Now, as for the slipping the clutch conversation. As far as I'm aware the answer was a resounding NO. EXCEPT in 'slow riding mode' so doing u-turns, approaching and leaving intersections, coming to a stop, leaving your park and other such situations. The instructor answered it like it was obvious (!) and clearly it is not, but what it did show was her conviction that it wasn't a good thing to do. So that's what I thought, and that's what I was doing, which made me feel great. Use the clutch as control in slow-riding mode, but don't use it on any other corners or bends at higher speed. Does that make sense? Please don't be nasty about this - these things are not intuitive and what we sometimes need is a more experienced person i.e. a course instructor to confirm this for us.

The cause of my fall? By the end of the day I had come to the conclusion that the main reason was that I had got too cocky. I was on a bike I thought I knew but didn't. I was riding it like the ER6 which is the only other bike I've known. I approached the corner at too high a speed when I should have erred on the side of caution and changed down into first before the corner to slow down. On top of that, I did not give myself enough width coming in to the corner. Other factors may have been the cold-ish tires, possibly too much air in the tires, the lack of revs at low speed making the Bandit just want to 'lie down' (in the words of another contributor), and not keeping my head up and looking around the corner to come out of it (though I think I was in too late for this to have helped get me out of it to be honest).

The result was a $4600 bill and about three weeks of not having our new toy to play with. (Lucky we had insurance; most people abhor their insurance companies but State have been nothing but good to us.) And a huge loss of confidence.

My lesson? Don't get cocky. Do more training. And don't assume you know your bike when it is new to you.

[bogan]

Because it was specifically designed to be that way - read the original post that set it up.

Unfortunately the original post and how it is set up has no power or control over the rest of the thread.


Make one. This is a lame excuse and you know it. It seems like only the other 90 % of kiwibiker is made up from a male perspective. But if you want to start a male sub-forum go for it! What's your excuse?

My excuse? well I don't have admin rights for a start, which seems to be quite valid and not lame in the least... Also, it's not so much that I want a new forum, but that the existing ones (apart from rant and rave and PD) should be more tightly moderated.

Good to see you're happy with the outcome of the training day.

[Katman]

The cause of my fall? By the end of the day I had come to the conclusion that the main reason was that I had got too cocky.

11 pages to get to the crux of the matter.

Not bad going for Kiwibiker.

[shflbm]

11 pages to get to the crux of the matter.

Not bad going for Kiwibiker.

Haha! Fair point. TBH this was kind of what I thought at the beginning but wanted to get other peoples' thoughts on regaining confidence as well as to firm up other influencing factors to the fall.

[Taxythingy]

Strangely enough... my profile seems to have changed to Scooter Boy. Not sure why - is it related to how many times you contribute to a thread?

You get the honour of being a scooter boy around the 30-post mark.

Glad the course has boosted your confidence. I went through one of the Ride-Safe courses a couple of months ago and found it really helpful. I'm now on the hunt for more carparks & the time to play.

[george formby]

Good you were able to get the clutch issue explained clearly. Its unfortunite so many others were left with the impression I did it on all bends and at all speeds as I said I specifically did it on tight bends and roundabouts which cannot be taken at more than low speed without falling off anyway in gear or not.
As for your u turn fear what I do is stick my leg out for balance which works for me but at a very low speed. I have seen other bikers do this so am not alone in doing it if Drew and co think its dangerous. The best way to master
what gears and speed to get into on bends would be to try a bend with an 80km speed rating then a 70,60,50,40 etc and you will get a feel for the increased amount of braking and lowering of the gearing required for each.
If you change bikes again you will have to go through the process all over again as its not just the engine power and gearing but also the handling that affects cornering. As a rule of thumb the shorter the wheelbase the better the bike will corner but they are not so relaxing on long straight roads.

I can do a u-turn, a 270, or as many 360's as you want in 1/1/2 my bikes length, 3 mtr road width or so.. Yup, we measure it. Full lock. I can do 360's left & right in a 6 mtr wide road, in 2nd gear at 25-35kmh. 3rd gets me sweating... I can do this on a Fire blade, too. Prolly do it on a Harley once I had a few try's.
No clutch, non, nada. How? Correct technique. My G/F is better than I am, she has been riding for less than 2 years.
I stick my leg out riding on dirt. When the bike sticks it's butt out to get round a corner. Any hoo, whatcha gonna do with your leg when your 250kg + bike & rider has a lie down?

Cassina, up until my G/F started learning I thought I was a competent rider, I could not do u-turns without clutch, feet, puckered date etc. I was living in ignorance. 35 years of it. An offer of some training from somebody far more advanced than myself and an excellent teacher has lifted my ability & confidence through the roof. I have been blunt, no offence intended, but your muddying the waters for a rider who has lost confidence & $4600.

Shflbm, well done. Keep learning, keep practicing. And your absolutely right, nothing is obvious when it comes to understanding how to ride a bike. Something else my G/F taught me. Onwards & upwards!

[george formby]

You get the honour of being a scooter boy around the 30-post mark.

Glad the course has boosted your confidence. I went through one of the Ride-Safe courses a couple of months ago and found it really helpful. I'm now on the hunt for more carparks & the time to play.


That's the bugger!:Punk:

[skippa1]

The lady actually found my comment of interest as she said her husband did it too and as i said if my initial post had been read fully by others I never said I coasted all bends at all speeds which was the impression the others gave me. At least she has an understanding now. You have read me wrong also believing i stick my leg out going around corners and if you can make a U turn without putting your foot down after having lessons well done but its hardly a road safety thing otherwise it would be a road code rider testing requirement would it not?
At least with my leg out there is less chance of my bike falling on it if I dropped it when making a U turn. BTW it has been Harley Riders that I have seen stick their legs out doing U turns and if you get a chance to ride a Harley
it will be your own fault if you drop it not putting your leg out for balance.

You still going?:blink:

[Katman]

it will be your own fault if you drop it not putting your leg out for balance.

I think you'll find a leg being put out is to safeguard in the event of falling over.

Why would you stick it out for balance?

It's a far better idea to learn to balance your bike correctly.

[bogan]

You still going?:blink:

There's a forum appropriate saying about a woman always being right, also something about what a man says next being the start of a new argument :innocent:

[george formby]

The lady actually found my comment of interest as she said her husband did it too and as i said if my initial post had been read fully by others I never said I coasted all bends at all speeds which was the impression the others gave me. At least she has an understanding now. You have read me wrong also believing i stick my leg out going around corners and if you can make a U turn without putting your foot down after having lessons well done but its hardly a road safety thing otherwise it would be a road code rider testing requirement would it not?
At least with my leg out there is less chance of my bike falling on it if I dropped it when making a U turn. BTW it has been Harley Riders that I have seen stick their legs out doing U turns and if you get a chance to ride a Harley
it will be your own fault if you drop it not putting your leg out for balance.

You said tight bends. Got it. I said Harley, you made my point.
I tried to suggest that you have room for improvement. Mis-understood obviously.
The Op is furthering her training & knowledge.
Your stuck in a rut.
It is what it is. Your not re-inventing the wheel.

[george formby]

Cassina, I have learned how to do this. A year ago when I started.

http://youtu.be/3LWz_BVUPTk

No clutch, just an open mind & willingness to improve. You wanna see me now! Tight corners & round abouts. Pfffffft.

OP, this kind of practice is the mutts nuts.

[george formby]

I am always keen to improve but dont see any actual road safety merit in what you can do about balancing in a U turn without your foot down. In the times I have come off things have happened too fast to even put the
brakes on and certainly nothing to do with not being able to balance in a U turn without my foot down.

Erm, it's more about bike control than balance. Mucking about in such a tight area ends up requiring a bit of body English to start with, not a bad skill to have.
I guess your just short sighted.

[haydes55]

I am always keen to improve but dont see any actual road safety merit in what you can do about balancing in a U turn without your foot down. In the times I have come off things have happened too fast to even put the
brakes on and certainly nothing to do with not being able to balance in a U turn without my foot down.



If you can u-turn at full lock with no clutch, you can turn to full lock to avoid a car pulling out on you in a 50km/h zone. It's not like you are going down to the dairy for milk doing u-turns and full lock the entire way. It's a skill that you don't have that one day you may need.

Plus you look like you're a learner if you u-turn with your leg out.

[bosslady]

If you can u-turn at full lock with no clutch, you can turn to full lock to avoid a car pulling out on you in a 50km/h zone. It's not like you are going down to the dairy for milk doing u-turns and full lock the entire way. It's a skill that you don't have that one day you may need.

Plus you look like you're a learner if you u-turn with your leg out.
What if you have a motard?

[george formby]

If you can u-turn at full lock with no clutch, you can turn to full lock to avoid a car pulling out on you in a 50km/h zone. It's not like you are going down to the dairy for milk doing u-turns and full lock the entire way. It's a skill that you don't have that one day you may need.

Plus you look like you're a learner if you u-turn with your leg out.

This is so. The fun bit is going full lock in the other direction immediately afterwards to avoid the truck coming at you in the opposite lane. Necessary skills to have if you want to avoid spilled milk.
But yeah. Best to practice, just in case.

[Ocean1]

What if you have a motard?

No different. Except full lock is further.

And your arse is further off the ground, so you fall harder.

So like I've said a few times, find a bit of grass and just do it, it's a useful skill to have.

[haydes55]

What if you have a motard?


Then only if you back it into the corner :p

[george formby]

What if you have a motard?

It's a all betterer. That whole slidey corner thing? No idea. Testicles like apple pips unfortunately.

[bosslady]

No different. Except full lock is further.

And your arse is further off the ground, so you fall harder.

So like I've said a few times, find a bit of grass and just do it, it's a useful skill to have.
It's late (for me) I don't get what you mean full lock further? And I don't fall, I just drop the bike and manage to land not so gracefully on my feet ;)

[bosslady]

Then only if you back it into the corner :p
I farken wish. I can't even get the front wheel up more than a cm off the ground!

[george formby]

I farken wish. I can't even get the front wheel up more than a cm off the ground!


Your not alone, we have a wannabe wheelie household. :laugh:

[Ocean1]

It's late (for me) I don't get what you mean full lock further? And I don't fall, I just drop the bike and manage to land not so gracefully on my feet ;)

It's a dirt bike, the bars turn further than most road bikes, which makes GF's party trick slightly more difficult.

How do you manage the landing on your feet thing? And how can you run that fast?

[bosslady]

It's a dirt bike, the bars turn further than most road bikes, which makes GF's party trick slightly more difficult.

How do you manage the landing on your feet thing? And how can you run that fast?
Easy when you're going zero ks an hour.

[300weatherby]

Note I said a TIGHT bend. I have been riding for 37 years and have NEVER fallen off on a bend and should in theory be dead by your theory eh sport!!!!!

Actually, Drew is quite right. Control over a motorcycle is ALL about the throttle, and it is entirely probable that you are slow enough everywhere that is not straight, to escape the consequences of such a retarded practise.

You are advocating a beginner learn to not control the bike? You may have ridden for a long time, but clearly know/understand little and have been lucky.

The OP has a lot to learn, and KB is clearly NOT the place to be doing that!

[Ocean1]

I farken wish. I can't even get the front wheel up more than a cm off the ground!

Meh, Buells come with automatic backing it in. The engine braking's so severe it just happens when you get off the gas and tip it in at anything over 3Krpm.

If you manage it on the DRZ without dabing the back brake then you'll know you're pretty close to the limit for corner entry speed. Whether you're on asphalt or dirt.

[Ocean1]

Your not alone, we have a wannabe wheelie household. :laugh:

Take one well seasoned C90, add a beach...

[bosslady]

Meh, Buells come with automatic backing it in. The engine braking's so severe it just happens when you get off the gas and tip it in at anything over 3Krpm.

If you manage it on the DRZ without dabing the back brake then you'll know you're pretty close to the limit for corner entry speed. Whether you're on asphalt or dirt.
Hmmmmm.....

[Drew]

Your not alone, we have a wannabe wheelie household. :laugh:Hmmm, found a new interest in this thread. I've seen wheelies done. Didn't look that hard.:niceone:

[Drew]

Meh, Buells come with automatic backing it in. The engine braking's so severe it just happens when you get off the gas and tip it in at anything over 3Krpm.

If you manage it on the DRZ without dabing the back brake then you'll know you're pretty close to the limit for corner entry speed. Whether you're on asphalt or dirt.No slipper on the DRZ I don't think, but the motors are hardly high compression beasts. Stepping it out on corner entry with engine braking alone is not close to the limit Mark, it's looking back at the limit wistfuly my friend.

[p.dath]

Yeah that's a horrible experience, but anyone riding for any decent period of time has had at least one off. Doing the riding course is a god idea.

The only thing that seems to really help with the confidence is riding time alas. You have to learn to trust your machine again.

[Ocean1]

No slipper on the DRZ I don't think, but the motors are hardly high compression beasts. Stepping it out on corner entry with engine braking alone is not close to the limit Mark, it's looking back at the limit wistfuly my friend.

You're right, they don't, they do have a reasonable quantity of engine braking though.

And on the 1125 I'd probably agree about the limit thing, but it had a slipper clutch. On the XBX it's fairly routine, I promise.

[shflbm]

Yeah that's a horrible experience, but anyone riding for any decent period of time has had at least one off. Doing the riding course is a god idea.

The only thing that seems to really help with the confidence is riding time alas. You have to learn to trust your machine again.

Thanks. Yes, I've ridden the ER6 three days in a row to work now (go me!) whereas before the course on the weekend I'd starting adopting excuses to do that (though there are quite a few valid excuses too). So I'm getting my confidence back on the ER6. Once we get the shorty levers for the Bandit I will be back on that. After all, I test-rode it and loved it without falling off so I just need to ride it with more respect and realise it doesn't go exactly like the ER6!

[Crisis management]

Thanks. Yes, I've ridden the ER6 three days in a row to work now (go me!)

Good on you, it really is a matter of edging your way back into feeling confident again and the only way to do that is by riding.
I've been riding for a while and am reasonably competent but had an accident a year or so ago on a right hand bend, when I got back on a bike it took me a day at a track to actually go around a right hand corner at a decent speed again, I was really shocked at how averse I was to pushing the bike into the corner, left hand was no problem but my brain was not keen on right handers! Don't underestimate the impact of falling off, it will take some time to feel really happy again on the bike. Baby steps are good!

Take the advice on training, if you have a spare day and a couple of hundred dollars get a mornings dirt bike training with Tony at Endless dirt biking, take your husband too, it's a great way to learn bike handling skills.

[shflbm]

Good on you, it really is a matter of edging your way back into feeling confident again and the only way to do that is by riding.
I've been riding for a while and am reasonably competent but had an accident a year or so ago on a right hand bend, when I got back on a bike it took me a day at a track to actually go around a right hand corner at a decent speed again, I was really shocked at how averse I was to pushing the bike into the corner, left hand was no problem but my brain was not keen on right handers! Don't underestimate the impact of falling off, it will take some time to feel really happy again on the bike. Baby steps are good!

Take the advice on training, if you have a spare day and a couple of hundred dollars get a mornings dirt bike training with Tony at Endless dirt biking, take your husband too, it's a great way to learn bike handling skills.

Thanks. Yes right handers are still hairy for me at the moment. The slower the better until I get more confident. That feeling of the bike falling away underneath you does not retreat easily!

[george formby]

Usually on a right hander it's the sensation of the camber working against you, mind over matter again. For some riders it's heading towards oncoming traffic so apexing a little later keeps you out of harms way & off the centre line.
Glad things are falling into place for you OP. Oh, no pun intended.

[bosslady]

Sounds spot on to me.

'Slipping the clutch' is a great skill for this application.

In the lower gear, you can do the same exact thing. It will be more ready to give power if you need it, and the clutch not fully engaged will soak up the jerky jerky thing.Another question. Standard my bike is meant to be 15 & 41 sprocket wise but it appears to be 16 & 39. In your opinion could this be partially contributing to that issue I mentioned?

[Drew]

Another question. Standard my bike is meant to be 15 & 41 sprocket wise but it appears to be 16 & 39. In your opinion could this be partially contributing to that issue I mentioned?

I wouldn't have thought so. The gearing you describe means it's just a smidge taller geared than standard, (faster in each gear). Bit odd actually, because we're talking about a difference of so little, I fail to see why anyone would do it.

[Ender EnZed]

I wouldn't have thought so. The gearing you describe means it's just a smidge taller geared than standard, (faster in each gear). Bit odd actually, because we're talking about a difference of so little, I fail to see why anyone would do it.

That'll gear it up about 10.8% (I think). More than a smidge.

[Ocean1]

I wouldn't have thought so. The gearing you describe means it's just a smidge taller geared than standard, (faster in each gear). Bit odd actually, because we're talking about a difference of so little, I fail to see why anyone would do it.

That's a reasonable gearing change innit?

The DRZ is a very good bit of kit, the one thing most bitch about is the gearing. The spread isn't very wide, and it's only a 5 speed, so even if your one is geared just right for your use they're still a bit high in 1st, (with a big jump to an even higher 2nd) and a bit buzzy in 5th.

So someone's re-geared BL's machine for touring i'd say. Which is OK but it does mean that big jump from 1st to 2nd is even bigger, which might explain why she notices it lurching a bit in 2nd on roundabouts.

The clutch control thing is spot on in any case, and I once overheard a real proper riding tutor suggest that if the revs are held constant then beginners can focus on using the clutch to regulate power better.

[bogan]

That'll gear it up about 10.8% (I think). More than a smidge.

12.1% by my reckoning, but yeh that is a lot, no wonder she can't do wheelies...

That was the problem you were referring to right bosslady?

[bosslady]

I wouldn't have thought so. The gearing you describe means it's just a smidge taller geared than standard, (faster in each gear). Bit odd actually, because we're talking about a difference of so little, I fail to see why anyone would do it.
Apparently standard will get you up to 130ish and this configuration 150ish, I've only got it to 140 but my friend got it to 149 so must gear it up a tiny bit, I have no idea...

[bosslady]

That's a reasonable gearing change innit?

The DRZ is a very good bit of kit, the one thing most bitch about is the gearing. The spread isn't very wide, and it's only a 5 speed, so even if your one is geared just right for your use they're still a bit high in 1st, (with a big jump to an even higher 2nd) and a bit buzzy in 5th.

So someone's re-geared BL's machine for touring i'd say. Which is OK but it does mean that big jump from 1st to 2nd is even bigger, which might explain why she notices it lurching a bit in 2nd on roundabouts.

The clutch control thing is spot on in any case, and I once overheard a real proper riding tutor suggest that if the revs are held constant then beginners can focus on using the clutch to regulate power better.
Yea I am getting a little bit better with my clutch control, I've only stalled the bike a few times so far but come close a fair few times, much improvement to be made on my clutch control or lack thereof more like...

12.1% by my reckoning, but yeh that is a lot, no wonder she can't do wheelies...

That was the problem you were referring to right bosslady?

That's one of my problems, but not the one I as referring to, no, lol.

[nzspokes]

That's one of my problems, but not the one I as referring to, no, lol.

If its the problem we discussed last night then yes I do think its part of the issue with that gearing change.

[bosslady]

If its the problem we discussed last night then yes I do think its part of the issue with that gearing change.
Nah the issue I'm referring to is difficulty with slow manoeuvring I.e. turning into streets, roundabouts etc. The chain is possibly too long, sure, might need to get a link removed eh

[Drew]

That'll gear it up about 10.8% (I think). More than a smidge.


Apparently standard will get you up to 130ish and this configuration 150ish, I've only got it to 140 but my friend got it to 149 so must gear it up a tiny bit, I have no idea...Sorry, I was transposing the 39 and 41 figures when I worked it out.

So, in answer to the original question. Yes. It could be making second gear too tall for some applications, where first is still too low.

But lowering the gearing back to standard might just compound the same thing elsewhere. If you have the standard sprockets, chuck them on and give it a go.

[bosslady]

Sorry, I was transposing the 39 and 41 figures when I worked it out.

So, in answer to the original question. Yes. It could be making second gear too tall for some applications, where first is still too low.

But lowering the gearing back to standard might just compound the same thing elsewhere. If you have the standard sprockets, chuck them on and give it a go.

Nah don't have the standard sprockets. I think I'll get used to the slightly higher gearing, already starting to. Besides prob best to keep the sprockets as is for the open road speeds.

[Drew]

Nah don't have the standard sprockets. I think I'll get used to the slightly higher gearing, already starting to. Besides prob best to keep the sprockets as is for the open road speeds.Fuck yeah. Go round corners faster. Problem solved.

You're welcome.