Farmers and power supply

[Mo NZ]

If I had multi millions invested in a dairy farm that relies on power supply - I would have a back up generator and water pumps.

Years ago ( 1968 ) or so when I was a lad I lived in rural New Plymouth.
All my schoolmates were farmers sons etc.
When I went and stayed over I was recruited to help with the milking, which was fun.

The power was not working 1 day so the farmer backed up his trusty Massey Fergusson to the shed and powered it of the PTO on the tractor.
Nothing new in that.

Any modern farmer who dose not have a back up for what is an essential for his farm should hang his shed in shame.
And not go on national tv and bleat about it. What a crock.

[mashman]

It's a redundant, expensive piece of equipment.

[ellipsis]

It's a redundant, expensive piece of equipment.

...somewhat like Hekia Parata's (sp?) brain, you mean...?

[Mo NZ]

Generating your own power has became easier.

[mashman]

...somewhat like Hekia Parata's (sp?) brain, you mean...?

:laugh: some folk don't miss what they don't have to begin with... so not quite :D

[neels]

Comes down to risk vs reward I suppose, how many day's lost production does it take to pay for a generator?

[Banditbandit]

...somewhat like Hekia Parata's (sp?) brain, you mean...?

Fuck .. did someone find her one ??

[p.dath]

...
The power was not working 1 day so the farmer backed up his trusty Massey Fergusson to the shed and powered it of the PTO on the tractor.
Nothing new in that.
...

Many years ago when my family live on a farm my Father had exactly the same contingency plan. And I recall him having to use it several times. It was not unusual for us to loose power several times a year due to storms. The tractor was used to run the pumps directly via a flywheel and a belt, rather than make electricity.

Generators are rather expensive and need regular maintenance. The tractor is a great option. Farmer's need one anyway. They have a lot of power. So it should be more cost effective to use it to run pumps or even generators.

[T.W.R]

The power was not working 1 day so the farmer backed up his trusty Massey Fergusson to the shed and powered it of the PTO on the tractor.
Nothing new in that.

Any modern farmer who dose not have a back up for what is an essential for his farm should hang his shed in shame.
And not go on national tv and bleat about it. What a crock.

:pinch: A modern dairy farm is a fair bit more advanced than the antiquated hic outfits of the 60s matey.
A computer controlled rotary shed can't have a power supply that surges all the time :oi-grr: especially if they're on a direct link system to their testing/quality control provider.....loose data of one milking regime and they can easily damage their business :yes:



Generators are rather expensive and need regular maintenance. The tractor is a great option. Farmer's need one anyway. They have a lot of power. So it should be more cost effective to use it to run pumps or even generators.

The majority of dairy farms haven't got tractors anywhere near big enough to drive a generator big enough at a constant/safe operating speed

As of yesterday early afternoon we came off being without power for 5days & it wasn't easy, so for a farm to be down for a day or two is a major problem :yes:

[mashman]

No power. Trees down. Consistent power required... you need one of these things in yer shed :)

http://www.thebrecklandview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Herbert-Swithen-Scott-with-his-Burrell-Traction-Engine.jpg

[pete376403]

:pinch: A modern dairy farm is a fair bit more advanced than the antiquated hic outfits of the 60s matey.
A computer controlled rotary shed can't have a power supply that surges all the time :oi-grr: especially if they're on a direct link system to their testing/quality control provider.....loose data of one milking regime and they can easily damage their business :yes:

The majority of dairy farms haven't got tractors anywhere near big enough to drive a generator big enough at a constant/safe operating speed

As of yesterday early afternoon we came off being without power for 5days & it wasn't easy, so for a farm to be down for a day or two is a major problem :yes:
I would have thought that, modern dairying being the multi million dollar (in some cases) business that it is, a business continuity plan / disaster recovery plan would be mandatory. IE, backup generator, proper double conversion UPS to protect the computers, standby water supply (tanks and pumps) and so on.

[T.W.R]

I would have thought that, modern dairying being the multi million dollar (in some cases) business that it is, a business continuity plan / disaster recovery plan would be mandatory. IE, backup generator, proper double conversion UPS to protect the computers, standby water supply (tanks and pumps) and so on.

Theoretically it should be but reality means it isn't :no: Consumer supply & demand mean that the majority are always upto their eyeballs in debt to the banks....continually chasing their tails with keeping their herd numbers up & maintaining what they've got. There are few dairy units that are actually making huge profit & gains and most that do make profit usually feed it straight back into the farm to keep it competitive.
Just for a basic dairy unit (say 450 animals) to monitor the quality of milk the herd is producing will cost roughly $1500 per milking so for one test it's $4500 multiply that 4 - 6 times $18 -$27k just to monitor quality for a season (Synlait & Fonterra demand maintained quality testing); so with the larger units down here having double or triple that number of animals & a couple of farms with 3500+ animals it's an expensive business. Irrigation for a farm can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per year (a 8 run centrepivot used to cost $180k per year to run 20yrs ago, so it'd be more nowadays).
I'm not a fan of dairy farms or dairy farming by any means but the glossy image isn't that glossy in the raw, just like people upto their eyes in mortgages most dairy farms are the same...just existing to support the banks :msn-wink:

[T.W.R]

No power. Trees down. Consistent power required... you need one of these things in yer shed :)


Ha wouldn't mind one those in the shed, just as a toy though:msn-wink:

A 3hp/1300v generator only just managed to supply enough juice to keep the fridge/freezer going & occasionally run a couple of other things :pinch:
Cooking on camp cookers got a bit tedious after awhile and typical...power goes so went the phones and cell was almost flat too :oi-grr:
Got plenty of wood for next winter though :niceone:


This was just when things were starting to build up, the cloud is a dust storm barrelling down the Rakaia river 8km away so it's at least 1km high

[Mo NZ]

Theoretically it should be but reality means it isn't :no: Consumer supply & demand mean that the majority are always upto their eyeballs in debt to the banks....continually chasing their tails with keeping their herd numbers up & maintaining what they've got. There are few dairy units that are actually making huge profit & gains and most that do make profit usually feed it straight back into the farm to keep it competitive.
Just for a basic dairy unit (say 450 animals) to monitor the quality of milk the herd is producing will cost roughly $1500 per milking so for one test it's $4500 multiply that 4 - 6 times $18 -$27k just to monitor quality for a season (Synlait & Fonterra demand maintained quality testing); so with the larger units down here having double or triple that number of animals & a couple of farms with 3500+ animals it's an expensive business. Irrigation for a farm can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per year (a 8 run centrepivot used to cost $180k per year to run 20yrs ago, so it'd be more nowadays).
I'm not a fan of dairy farms or dairy farming by any means but the glossy image isn't that glossy in the raw, just like people upto their eyes in mortgages most dairy farms are the same...just existing to support the banks :msn-wink:

So how much profit per milk, its substantial.

What's the cost of a Generator-... maybe $80,000 don't really know - . Assures continuous supply.
Its essential plant, like a tractor or irrigator and is charged against the farm.

Maybee get together with the next door farm and share the costs.

[T.W.R]

So how much profit per milk, its substantial.

What's the cost of a Generator-... maybe $80,000 don't really know - . Assures continuous supply.
Its essential plant, like a tractor or irrigator and is charged against the farm.

Maybee get together with the next door farm and share the costs.

Profit per milking isn't substantial by any means :no: remember the milk going out the gate is the farms income so out of the income all the running costs of the farm are subtracted from that. A small family run farm still has to pay it's employees, run the farm vehicles, pay for the all the costs associated with each animal (food & health etc), maintain the farm and all other associated running costs plus keep themselves alive with all the daily living expenses; and like I said most are upto their eyeballs in debt so repaying the banks also has to be done.
Large dairy units are mostly always owned by syndicates & thus have managers, 2ICs, and workers to pay wages to, so when all the fish in the pond have had their nibble of what little profit there is the dregs aren't of much consequence.

A piece of equipment costing $80k or more sitting idle on the chance of a maybe happening isn't a viable option for the majority....remember items like tractors, farm bikes, utes, irrigators etc are all being used constantly on the farm not just sitting there looking pretty. And with most major agricultural work undertaken on a farm is done by contractors because it isn't viable for the farm to warrant having the equipment needed sitting idle a large proportion of the time.

:laugh: How could neighbouring farms share the likes of a appropriately sized generator??? think if there's a incident like this recent big blow both farms will be without power so both will require power supply and a lot of dairy units down here have multiple milking sheds on each farm and multiple farms....they can't afford to have a lot of ample sized generators just sitting around on the chance of a maybe happening let alone start sharing with the neighbours....they aren't generators that can be thrown on the deck of the ute and run around easily :facepalm:; it's logistically impossible.

[Mo NZ]

So have you figured out how much in $$ income lost the 5 days without power has cost in production cattle stress etc.?

[duckonin]

Profit per milking isn't substantial by any means :no: remember the milk going out the gate is the farms income so out of the income all the running costs of the farm are subtracted from that. A small family run farm still has to pay it's employees, run the farm vehicles, pay for the all the costs associated with each animal (food & health etc), maintain the farm and all other associated running costs plus keep themselves alive with all the daily living expenses; and like I said most are upto their eyeballs in debt so repaying the banks also has to be done.
Large dairy units are mostly always owned by syndicates & thus have managers, 2ICs, and workers to pay wages to, so when all the fish in the pond have had their nibble of what little profit there is the dregs aren't of much consequence.

A piece of equipment costing $80k or more sitting idle on the chance of a maybe happening isn't a viable option for the majority....remember items like tractors, farm bikes, utes, irrigators etc are all being used constantly on the farm not just sitting there looking pretty. And with most major agricultural work undertaken on a farm is done by contractors because it isn't viable for the farm to warrant having the equipment needed sitting idle a large proportion of the time.

:laugh: How could neighbouring farms share the likes of a appropriately sized generator??? think if there's a incident like this recent big blow both farms will be without power so both will require power supply and a lot of dairy units down here have multiple milking sheds on each farm and multiple farms....they can't afford to have a lot of ample sized generators just sitting around on the chance of a maybe happening let alone start sharing with the neighbours....they aren't generators that can be thrown on the deck of the ute and run around easily :facepalm:; it's logistically impossible.

Your 'income' so to speak has always come from the capital gain (sale) of the farm. Capital gain comes from increased production over time. Yep you can live on the edge for a number of years but with the increase in BF the potential of your land to another becomes a valuable asset which they pay you well for.At that point you may well smile .

[Grumph]

Just got power back after 6hrs short of a week without...Farmers with generators, right, the dairy farm down the end of our road apparently told the lines guys that he had a generator so repair was low priority....nothing about the 30 plus other households on that line...Bastard.

Neighbour across the road had a good size genny stolen last thursday night...more bastards.

selwyn council didn't advise that the local water scheme was out due to pumps not running - didn't catch us out but caught quite a few...but we knew the council were bastards anyway...

[T.W.R]

Your 'income' so to speak has always come from the capital gain (sale) of the farm. Capital gain comes from increased production over time. Yep you can live on the edge for a number of years but with the increase in BF the potential of your land to another becomes a valuable asset which they pay you well for.At that point you may well smile .

Explain to me how that has any effect on the daily life of a farm??? Long term maybe but definitely not in the short term. Definitely doesn't put food on the table each day nor pay for the daily running expenses of the farm :pinch:
Every mechanical item on a farm decreases in value on a yearly basis, machinery & equipment wear out & have to be maintained, stock die & have to be replaced, wages increase, and the cost of cultivation work increases.

The value of the base asset is nothing if the farm is sold via mortgagee sale, farmers who sell-up & walk away with pockets bulging full of cash are few & far between. For most it's an ingrained lifestyle through generations, not a short term experiment; even general farm workers once in the game find it hard to leave and mostly just drift from job to job ending up at retirement with next to nothing to show for their years of grind. It's an existence way of life. Seeing farmers & farmers wives cruising around in the latest & greatest vehicle on the market is a hoax, maybe they'd own the tyres outright but the bank owns the rest, their playing a juggling game and if the crap really hits the fan they're well & truly in the shit.

[T.W.R]

Just got power back after 6hrs short of a week without...Farmers with generators, right, the dairy farm down the end of our road apparently told the lines guys that he had a generator so repair was low priority....nothing about the 30 plus other households on that line...Bastard.

:lol: try being in a community of 30 odd houses and having the township get power back within 24hrs and being told because the lines into the property are damaged that it isn't high priority and then having to wait 5days to be reconnected :weird:
The restoring of the grid was priority over individual properties

[Edbear]

Explain to me how that has any effect on the daily life of a farm??? Long term maybe but definitely not in the short term. Definitely doesn't put food on the table each day nor pay for the daily running expenses of the farm :pinch:
Every mechanical item on a farm decreases in value on a yearly basis, machinery & equipment wear out & have to be maintained, stock die & have to be replaced, wages increase, and the cost of cultivation work increases.

The value of the base asset is nothing if the farm is sold via mortgagee sale, farmers who sell-up & walk away with pockets bulging full of cash are few & far between. For most it's an ingrained lifestyle through generations, not a short term experiment; even general farm workers once in the game find it hard to leave and mostly just drift from job to job ending up at retirement with next to nothing to show for their years of grind. It's an existence way of life. Seeing farmers & farmers wives cruising around in the latest & greatest vehicle on the market is a hoax, maybe they'd own the tyres outright but the bank owns the rest, their playing a juggling game and if the crap really hits the fan they're well & truly in the shit.

Like most ordinary businesses I guess. You don't make a fortune without something special and you are really working for the lifestyle and the prospect that when you want out you can sell it for a profit. Farming used to be a pretty good life when everything was subsidised and costs were far less than today, however it is now a modern business model that has to compete and survive with ever rising costs of compliance and consumables.

[300weatherby]

A farm is a business. When times are good, you invest in whats needed to give you elbow room when times are bad. Farmers are often in the habit of buying the latest car, build a new house, a new bach, boat, ect ect, not putting in protection against calamity first.

They can do this because they know that when something big comes along, drop in dollar,flood, windstorm, drought ect, they can bleat to the public, the media and the Govt, and EXPECT, the whole godamn world to jump in and help out.

No other business can do that. (unless they have political leverage)

You, the kind and generous reader, you gonna put your tax dollars in my pocket and not expect me to give it back later, just cause something is against me and my business needs help?

No godamn sympathy for the farmers here, if you are not making a good enough dollar, get out. If you are, bank against the worst BEFORE spending on anything not the welfare of the farm.

It should be mandatory to have resorces, a plan in place, and actionable, to match the stock numbers and need on a farm in order to preserve stock welfare above all other things. It should be possible to charge a farm owner with criminal negligence if a farm does not meet a minimum criteria of risk protection against flood, drought, power outage.

Just for those who want to get all hate filled over my point of view : things haven't been so flash for my business due to circumstances beyond my control, I can give YOU, my bank details so you can make a donation to help me out........... no?, oh I see, two sets of rules, huh!:oi-grr:

[Maha]

Farmers whinge at fucking everything, except for hen the arse falls out of the NZD and Fonterra pay-outs.

[Mo NZ]

The China fiasco certainly did not help Fontera.
I hear they cant sell it, with buyer resistance over there now.
Well that was managed well wasn't it.
Complacent and arrogant springs to mind.

[T.W.R]

Like most ordinary businesses I guess. You don't make a fortune without something special and you are really working for the lifestyle and the prospect that when you want out you can sell it for a profit. Farming used to be a pretty good life when everything was subsidised and costs were far less than today, however it is now a modern business model that has to compete and survive with ever rising costs of compliance and consumables.

:doh: did you actually read all of what you're quoting or just the 1st sentence :facepalm:
And guess what high intensity farming was brought about by city dwellers and their demand for product.
Personally I'd care less for farmers in general because I've seen all sides of the ledger and know exactly how the majority operate, general rule of thumb in the rural community is that farmers are the biggest debtors & least trusted financially :msn-wink:




A farm is a business. When times are good, you invest in whats needed to give you elbow room when times are bad. Farmers are often in the habit of buying the latest car, build a new house, a new bach, boat, ect ect, not putting in protection against calamity first.

They can do this because they know that when something big comes along, drop in dollar,flood, windstorm, drought ect, they can bleat to the public, the media and the Govt, and EXPECT, the whole godamn world to jump in and help out.

No other business can do that. (unless they have political leverage)

You, the kind and generous reader, you gonna put your tax dollars in my pocket and not expect me to give it back later, just cause something is against me and my business needs help?

No godamn sympathy for the farmers here, if you are not making a good enough dollar, get out. If you are, bank against the worst BEFORE spending on anything not the welfare of the farm.

It should be mandatory to have resorces, a plan in place, and actionable, to match the stock numbers and need on a farm in order to preserve stock welfare above all other things. It should be possible to charge a farm owner with criminal negligence if a farm does not meet a minimum criteria of risk protection against flood, drought, power outage.

Just for those who want to get all hate filled over my point of view : things haven't been so flash for my business due to circumstances beyond my control, I can give YOU, my bank details so you can make a donation to help me out........... no?, oh I see, two sets of rules, huh!:oi-grr:

Half of them wouldn't know what a contingency plan was let alone be able to spell it. Keeping up appearances with the neighbours & mates from federated farmers or the local young farmers or CWI are all important no matter what the cost or what's neglected :msn-wink:




Farmers whinge at fucking everything, except for hen the arse falls out of the NZD and Fonterra pay-outs.


The China fiasco certainly did not help Fontera.
I hear they cant sell it, with buyer resistance over there now.
Well that was managed well wasn't it.
Complacent and arrogant springs to mind.

:shutup: Do you realise or know who actually started Fonterra and who really controls it? personally I was totally amused at the whole event and loved seeing it happen to a bunch of leeches, though there'd be more involved in the whole event than what was exposed to the public eye both on the company front and most likely on a bureaucratic level as well.
Years ago I posted a reply to another farming thread with a wee insight to Fonterra and having actually known the founder and having to have dealt with the prick directly I'd love to see the outfit collapse; only problem is now it's such a giant the damage would be devastating.

[Mo NZ]

Quote
":shutup: Do you realise or know who actually started Fonterra and who really controls it? personally I was totally amused at the whole event and loved seeing it happen to a bunch of leeches, though there'd be more involved in the whole event than what was exposed to the public eye both on the company front and most likely on a bureaucratic level as well.
Years ago I posted a reply to another farming thread with a wee insight to Fonterra and having actually known the founder and having to have dealt with the prick directly I'd love to see the outfit collapse; only problem is now it's such a giant the damage would be devastating.[/QUOTE]"

Im sorry. I thought Fontera was totally farmer based with shareholders being farmers making decisions for farmers. Closed shop so to speak.

[Winston001]

Risk management: we all do this every day. Insuring the house, bottles of water set aside, cans of food, torch and transistor radio - just for emergencies.

Risks come in a hierarchy of likelihood, some having a fair chance of happening - like rain when you are going to the footy, so you keep an old coat in the car. Other risks are far away down the track and so unlikely or devastating that you cannot plan for them.

For example, earthquakes are on everybodys minds (plus floods, storms and fire) but nobody insists you must own a portacabin as risk management. Why not?

NZ is an advanced developed nation with extensive electricity networks. We rarely experience power outages anywhere in the country for more than a few hours. Even when I was a boy on the farm in the late 1960s we had electricity drops twice a year at the most.

Very few businesses in NZ buy and store generators on the off-chance electricity will be cut off for more than a day. Do you know of any factories with MW generators? Why don't they? Consider how much production is lost if a factory closes for 3 days.

[Wingnut]

I know of multiple Dairy installations that run a back up genset for unscheduled outages. Some get by with a bit of simple down scaling and diversifying their loading to enable a smaller unit to be effective.

The scary bit is that there are hillbilly muppets out there who could kill some poor bastard who is out on the lines trying to restore said muppets supply. Ass bandits will install generators in such a way (Male/ male cord) and backfeed via a conventional plug or through I higher fused circuit like an oven. What people don't realise is that a transformer will work just as well in reverse as a step up transformer and will potentially back liven the high voltage system. It is a real concern within the industry and its a numbers game... The more generators out there... the higher the likely hood.

Adding to this, the amount of shit the line mechanics put up with from joe public being upset as they have no sky tv or fucken wifi because their power is out, is just plain ridiculous. Mother nature is a mean ol slapper sometimes and these events are beyond everyones control. FFS - light a candle!

[avgas]

:pinch: A modern dairy farm is a fair bit more advanced than the antiquated hic outfits of the 60s matey.
A computer controlled rotary shed can't have a power supply that surges all the time :oi-grr: especially if they're on a direct link system to their testing/quality control provider.....loose data of one milking regime and they can easily damage their business
Yep - pity the cow cockeys didn't catch up with power like industry did over the last 100 years.
They got new toys but didn't get told they need to look after the power.

I made a pretty penny one year selling power quality analysers. Cow cockeys didn't think it was a problem droping a dozen 2 MVA water pump drives every day.

Farmers need to learn how to do things ol' school and stop being so lazy. Rather than buy new toys then complain they don't know how to use them.

[T.W.R]

Im sorry. I thought Fontera was totally farmer based with shareholders being farmers making decisions for farmers. Closed shop so to speak.

Well you pretty much sounded like you were quoting your typical big corporate business, though that's what it is all because of the biggest prick south of the Rakaia :yes:



Farmers need to learn how to do things ol' school and stop being so lazy. Rather than buy new toys then complain they don't know how to use them.

:shutup: sssh they wouldn't like hearing that...I had one the other day moan to me that he had been doing 16hr days :oi-grr: doesn't stop them sitting at the local pub sucking piss for hrs each night :facepalm:

Just for laughs I know another who always wanted a Harley coz he liked the look & the sound :pinch: ordered the damn thing through McIvor & Veitch in Dunedin waited 6mths for it to arrive, went down picked it up road it home, moaned about the ride, sent it to the local shop got a set of pipes thrown on it; got coaxed into going for a ride with a few guys with jap bikes got absolutely dicked by them so packed a sad with the thing and now a 2010 Dyna sits collecting dust & rust in a shed with about 3500kms on the clock :facepalm:

[avgas]

sssh they wouldn't like hearing that...I had one the other day moan to me that he had been doing 16hr days :oi-grr: doesn't stop them sitting at the local pub sucking piss for hrs each night
I have an uncle who's a farmer - both his boys do farming.
Me uncle is alright. Has a clue. Does things ol' school and never bitches. Had an honest conversation with him one day, turns out me cuzzie bro's are making some nice coin - probably about 1.5 times what I made at the time. He was a little shocked about what engineers get paid in NZ - especially when we found out I wasn't on holiday, just calling in on way home (20 hour work day on that particular day). He wasn't surprised when I took a desk job, congratulated me even.

He finds it hard to understand why there are farmers out there thinking they can make $150K, then go into debt buying toys and owe $50K at the end of the year. Even had a term for them "Fonterra's Hedge Fund Managers". He reckons Holden and Ford would go broke without them.

[T.W.R]

I have an uncle who's a farmer - both his boys do farming.
Me uncle is alright. Has a clue. Does things ol' school and never bitches. Had an honest conversation with him one day, turns out me cuzzie bro's are making some nice coin - probably about 1.5 times what I made at the time. He was a little shocked about what engineers get paid in NZ - especially when we found out I wasn't on holiday, just calling in on way home (20 hour work day on that particular day). He wasn't surprised when I took a desk job, congratulated me even.

He finds it hard to understand why there are farmers out there thinking they can make $150K, then go into debt buying toys and owe $50K at the end of the year. Even had a term for them "Fonterra's Hedge Fund Managers". He reckons Holden and Ford would go broke without them.

Yep hear that :yes:
When I was driving for an agricultural contractor during the harvest 100hr+ weeks were standard....I worked nearly 3mths straight one season without a break all for $10 per hr back 20 odd years ago :facepalm: my boss begged me to stay but I got hooked into driving earth movers; 60hr week 4 days on 4 days off and $60k salary....life went from zombie squad to semi normal :yes:
Now I work 9mths for nearly the same coin :yes: just the nocturnal lifestyle bends the head a bit.
Saw an ad recently wanting a driver for a local contractor $52k salary & truck and phone supplied...how times change :facepalm: