Bismarck's red card

[Woodman]

What an apalling couple of refereeing decisions. Just because a player gets hurt, doesn't mean that someone has done something wrong.

Bismarck didn't deserve either yellow card and subsequent red, he did nothing wrong at all. It ain't tiddlywinks.

Won't be long before players start pulling hollywoods to milk penalties like the nancyboys game.

Other than that, it was a great game.

[Mo NZ]

The tackle was ok. I have a feeling he was off side prior to the tackle.
Carter had no idea he was there so got crunched.
Had he seen him he could have adjusted his body position to receive the tackle.

The elbow to the throat area was plain dangerous play
and well worth a yellow.

Unfortunately it was his second.

[oldrider]

He is a quality hard player, he doesn't need to play the shit like he does, the first yellow was unfortunate but the red was absolutely on the button!

Shades of Richard Low ... that type, they just can't help themselves, IMHO he deserved the red card! :mad: Extremely hard match!

[tri boy]

Clean, hard tackle on Carter=no infringment/card.

Elbow defence a bit high, maybe a penalty with a warning to self defend lower.

Ref balls those two up. but was a classic Boks v ABs battle.

B Barrett and Retallick had excellent games, as did many others on both sides.

Ditch the stupid scrum bind. Let them battle.
MHO

[Woodman]

Clean, hard tackle on Carter=no infringment/card.

Elbow defence a bit high, maybe a penalty with a warning to self defend lower.

Ref balls those two up. but was a classic Boks v ABs battle.

B Barrett and Retallick had excellent games, as did many others on both sides.

Ditch the stupid scrum bind. Let them battle.
MHO

Bang on, on all points.

If Messom hadn't fallen back clutching his throat, then it would have been a non event. Too many refs are using injuries to check the big screen/TMO for foul play. Its a rough game, injuries happen, their doesn't have to be someone to blame.

Scrums are rubbish now, personally I liked watching scrums before, great stuff, but they are being watered down for some reason

[AllanB]

I have no problem with the cards - he looks like a cunt so tough shit! The elbow was unwarranted he knew exactly what he was doing then.

[Bikemad]

so who won?

[Road kill]

Neither action was worth a yellow and the red was a total crock.
The tackle on Carter "may" of come from a slightly off side position but that wasn't what the ref carded him for.

He then put his arm up to defend himself and there was clearly no malice in that either.

The up side was that the Blacks were always going to get up when they were the attacking team for most of the game.

Other than the cards it was best game I've watched this year.





Oh yeah,,we won't mention the scrums of today:rolleyes:

[pzkpfw]

How many times does Nonu get to do no-arms shoulder barges into players and mostly get away with it?

I can't understand the contrast; his game over the years has gotten so much smarter - great tactical kicks; great passing not always just trying to bust through - yet he still does these dumb dangerous tackles.

[98tls]

Once again a ref ruins what could have been a great game of rugby fuck me the Africans had a better understanding of the rules than the ref.Go the boks.

[oldrider]

Once again a ref ruins what could have been a great game of rugby fuck me the Africans had a better understanding of the rules than the ref.Go the boks.

True! Referees have too much influence on the outcome of games these days ... they are simply not accountable enough for their actions etc!

Look at that bullshit with Tana Umaga and the referee! I bet the ref knew he had made bad judgement, he was a good player and is generally a good ref but??? :facepalm: .

Not on that day! :bash:

[Woodman]

True! Referees have too much influence on the outcome of games these days ... they are simply not accountable enough for their actions etc!

Look at that bullshit with Tana Umaga and the referee! I bet the ref knew he had made bad judgement, he was a good player and is generally a good ref but??? :facepalm: .

Not on that day! :bash:

So does the TMO.

Look at how many tries are scored nowadays in a jumble of arms and legs and bodies after a forward drive. The players are more willing to give it a go because after umpteen replays at several different angles the TMO just may catch a glimpse and tell the ref it may have been a try. In the olden days, if a ref couldn't see it, it would be a no try, so the players wouldn't attempt drive after drive and would spin the ball wide and use the ball to beat the man and score an obvious undisputable (mostly) try.

The TMO needs work

[Mental Trousers]

The elbow was worth a yellow because it was dangerous, even if it was unintentional.

The tackle on Carter was bloody near a text book tackle, except he was so far off side he had to know it was an illegal position. Worth a talking to but not a card.

[Road kill]

The elbow was worth a yellow because it was dangerous, even if it was unintentional.

The tackle on Carter was bloody near a text book tackle, except he was so far off side he had to know it was an illegal position. Worth a talking to but not a card.


The call should of been on intent and there wasn't any.
It was just a fend gone a bit wrong.

Not that it matters,the right side won :2thumbsup.

[nudemetalz]

"....sink the Bismarck..."

Wonder if it was the Bok's intention to take Carter out of the game but didn't quite go to plan..

[98tls]

"....sink the Bismarck..."

Wonder if it was the Bok's intention to take Carter out of the game but didn't quite go to plan..

I dont think so,Carter got got hammered in a perfectly legal tackle end of story.That ref was an arse which showed early on when the All blacks got a penalty and the boks rushed the guy as soon as he moved to take it,boks got penalised:brick perfectly legal but..a real let down really as it had the makings of a great game.Personally i would love to see the All blacks get a good beating its getting a tad boring.

[Winston001]

Yeah..nah..dunno.

It looked like the ref got it wrong on the tackle on Carter but the ref was on the spot and tv cameras compress the view. I thought Bismark was fine.

The later tackle, well when things are slowed down to slow motion an unintentional block can look deliberate. Whadda I know. The ref was there and ok it was a yellow card - but not a red.

After Bismark was sent off I lost interest in what had been a great hard rugby match up till that point. When they took 2 1/2 minutes to set a scrum at the 58 minute mark, I turned the tv off. Completely lost interest in the by then unbalanced game.

[98tls]

Yeah..nah..dunno.

It looked like the ref got it wrong on the tackle on Carter but the ref was on the spot and tv cameras compress the view. I thought Bismark was fine.

The later tackle, well when things are slowed down to slow motion an unintentional block can look deliberate. Whadda I know. The ref was there and ok it was a yellow card - but not a red.

After Bismark was sent off I lost interest in what had been a great hard rugby match up till that point. When they took 2 1/2 minutes to set a scrum at the 58 minute mark, I turned the tv off. Completely lost interest in the by then unbalanced game.

About the same here mate,was so pissed off about the first yellow i changed channels then when i gave in and went back there he was getting a red:laugh:The scrum things a good point why do they keep fucking around with it,go watch kids rugby on a Saturday morning anywhere in the country,ball goes in ball comes out and they get on with it,simple really.

[Winston001]

Yeah funny thing the scrums. When it was touch, pause, engage they seemed to work mostly. But that's at least 5 years ago. I thought the latest version was working well because against the Pumas nearly every scrum set and worked. But this time against the Springboks with very experienced players...the ref was breathing through his whistle.

Cripes when I was a lad scrums were almost never stopped. The worst that could happen was a penalty for putting the ball under your hookers feet - then in recent times that became allowed or ignored.

[98tls]

Yeah funny thing the scrums. When it was touch, pause, engage they seemed to work mostly. But that's hookers feet - then in recent times that became allowed or ignored.

Thing that gets me the most is when the team that gets the put in puts it in it comes out all good then the ref stops play for some bullshit pedantic reason,no wonder people enjoy league,another is the lineouts,if the opposition team is not contesting what does it matter if the fucking throw wasnt straight,they were not going to get it anyway so let play continue.

[ellipsis]

Thing that gets me the most is when the team that gets the put in puts it in it comes out all good then the ref stops play for some bullshit pedantic reason,no wonder people enjoy league.

...but that's the foibles of rugby, League has the other effect on me , even though I love a good game of League, I gotta get back to the vague and interpretable (or not) Union side of things...then again I played the silly game 'til way past my forties...did me far more damage than falling off bikes...glad I did though...

[Berries]

I watched the dancing bit at the beginning of the game and then about five minutes of the match. I saw the ball go out near the corner flag, one of the South Africans go to pick it up and one of the All Blacks run in to him and push him over. Seems to me that New Zealand started with the dirty shit.

[pzkpfw]

I watched the dancing bit at the beginning of the game and then about five minutes of the match. I saw the ball go out near the corner flag, one of the South Africans go to pick it up and one of the All Blacks run in to him and push him over. Seems to me that New Zealand started with the dirty shit.

The S.A. player threw the ball away, preventing quick play. That's illegal (but we do it too, sometimes).

[Hitcher]

Sloppy refereeing decisions destroy a game. If I was Jean De Villiers, I would have walked my whole team off after Bismarck got red carded. Winning at that stage was impossible and a bonus point unlikely.

[avgas]

Won't be long before players start pulling hollywoods to milk penalties like the nancyboys game.
You can't get anymore hollywood than rugby in NZ. Full of pretty boys and nice suits.
Lots more brutal sports in NZ.
Even cricket gets more injuries.........and that is a game for ponces.

[Banditbandit]

so who won?

If you gave a fuck you'd know already ..


The elbow was worth a yellow because it was dangerous, even if it was unintentional.

Naaa .. hard to sustain .. from the front view it looks very intenional .. Bismark saw him coming and deliberately ht him high with an elbow ...


The call should of been on intent and there wasn't any.
It was just a fend gone a bit wrong.

Not that it matters,the right side won :2thumbsup.

Looked pretty damm intentional to me .. sure some views look like a fend gone wrong ... the front on view it's clear .. Bismark looks straight at him and hits him with an elbow ..

Still if the ref hadn't have fucked up the first yellow card, the tackle ... which was fine .. Bismark would not have been sent off ..

[nallac]

Winning at that stage was impossible and a bonus point unlikely.

Yes, But they gave it a good go. Would of been a better game with 15 aside for the full 80mins.

[Road kill]

If you gave a fuck you'd know already ..



Naaa .. hard to sustain .. from the front view it looks very intenional .. Bismark saw him coming and deliberately ht him high with an elbow ...



Looked pretty damm intentional to me .. sure some views look like a fend gone wrong ... the front on view it's clear .. Bismark looks straight at him and hits him with an elbow ..

Still if the ref hadn't have fucked up the first yellow card, the tackle ... which was fine .. Bismark would not have been sent off ..


Re watched it a few times now and yeah I guess you could be right about that elbow.

That's all ya' gonna get though:msn-wink:

[T.W.R]

Still if the ref hadn't have fucked up the first yellow card, the tackle ... which was fine .. Bismark would not have been sent off ..


Years ago the event would have been a good old fashioned "hospital pass"......tackler arriving the same time the ball does ;)

The AC joint injury to Carter is the shoulder he landed on not the one that took the brunt of the impact :facepalm:

[Banditbandit]

Re watched it a few times now and yeah I guess you could be right about that elbow.

That's all ya' gonna get though:msn-wink:

:killingme; Yeah I know .. You hate agreeing with me as much as I hate agreeing with you

[ellipsis]

...old news by now surely...it isn't the first fuck up by match officials and wont be the last...since then Counties have retained the Shield, the Ferns beat the aussie girls, a NRL game was won on the sixth movement and my grand daughters team played in their netball finals...

[300weatherby]

I was a senior referee for a few years, everybody knows more than the ref, all the time.......

Decisions are made in a heartbeat with no slowmo multiple views for carefull analysis and considered verdict.
A referee decision is subjective and made with a combination of instinct and experience, and again, made in a heartbeat.

Fuck all of the armchair critics, including past All Blacks, TV commentators, MOST rugby players at all levels, actually have a genuine grasp of the laws and their practical application, if the referees made as many mistakes as the players, you'd be in trouble.

To balance that, many modern top level players are making an effort to know enough to stay out of trouble at the contact, mainly because these days, income depends on it. ( Unless you are Mana Nonu, for some reason I cannot fathom)

I very much doubt any of the bashers on here could cope with the necessary speed and complexity of decision making, while keeping up with the game and attempting to monitor everything around them. The players have a hand in just how much the referee must adjudicate, when they get it right, you don't hear too much from the ref.

You think it is easy, get down your local Union, offer your services as a novice ref, attend the junior referee training, learn your law book backward and get out and start by refereeing junior rugby. Oh, better learn to develop a thick skin too, you are gonna need it!

Based on a snapshot view of the Dan Carter hit, I would have minimum, penalised the tackler and given a warning.
Same player next incident, order off, no hesitation, for dangerous play you get to walk.

[98tls]

I was a senior referee for a few years, everybody knows more than the ref, all the time.......


Based on a snapshot view of the Dan Carter hit, I would have minimum, penalised the tackler and given a warning.
Same player next incident, order off, no hesitation, for dangerous play you get to walk.

So you would have penalised the tackler for tackling and given him a warning for what? he did nothing wrong which has since been admitted.Wasnt just that the ref penalised the boks for charging a guy who had moved theres no doubt which is well within the rule book.Bugger him send him back to schoolboy rugby awhile and put someone in there that doesnt fuck up what could have been a great contest, i dont want to get all comfy in the armchair to watch that.

[Woodman]

I was a senior referee for a few years, everybody knows more than the ref, all the time.......

Decisions are made in a heartbeat with no slowmo multiple views for carefull analysis and considered verdict.
A referee decision is subjective and made with a combination of instinct and experience, and again, made in a heartbeat.

Fuck all of the armchair critics, including past All Blacks, TV commentators, MOST rugby players at all levels, actually have a genuine grasp of the laws and their practical application, if the referees made as many mistakes as the players, you'd be in trouble.

To balance that, many modern top level players are making an effort to know enough to stay out of trouble at the contact, mainly because these days, income depends on it. ( Unless you are Mana Nonu, for some reason I cannot fathom)

I very much doubt any of the bashers on here could cope with the necessary speed and complexity of decision making, while keeping up with the game and attempting to monitor everything around them. The players have a hand in just how much the referee must adjudicate, when they get it right, you don't hear too much from the ref.

You think it is easy, get down your local Union, offer your services as a novice ref, attend the junior referee training, learn your law book backward and get out and start by refereeing junior rugby. Oh, better learn to develop a thick skin too, you are gonna need it!

Based on a snapshot view of the Dan Carter hit, I would have minimum, penalised the tackler and given a warning.
Same player next incident, order off, no hesitation, for dangerous play you get to walk.

Agree with most points, but my point in the first post was that refs are going back via the TMO when someone gets hurt to look for foul play which is wrong. You can get hurt in a perfectly legit tackle. The ref didn't penalise either incident on a snapshot decision, he watched them again and still in my opinion made bad calls. Remember during a Blues game this year, Ali Williams asked Steve walsh on a few occaisions to rewind the tape to look at something Ali had seen. That shit has to stop.

[oldrider]

Steve Walsh and Auckland (anything) should never appear on the same field ... maybe just never Steve Walsh! (anywhere) :no:

[ellipsis]

... maybe just never Steve Walsh! (anywhere)... :no:

...but he's bigger than the game!...

[avgas]

I was a senior referee for a few years
Shit you're brave. Now refereeing - that's a dangerous sport.