How tight is too tight for a "chain joining plate" when fitting a new chain link? [Archive]

Conquiztador

19th September 2013, 18:40

I have fitted literally 100's of chains to motorcycles. Add heaps of joining links and I thought I knew how they worked. (Note; this is NOT about riveted joining links). Now I have been told, by a chain seller, that I did not know how they work.

Let me explain:
We got new sprockets for my sons MX bike (KTM85sx), and as I always do I also got a new chain (428 non-O ring). In the past I have preferred Regina, but now tricky to get. So we have used DID or RK. I did not ask what chain the supplier had and just ordered one. I got a CZ. I cut the chain to size, fitted on the bike and inserted the joining link. Then I pushed on the joining plate, but it would not go past the groove for the locking clip. The only way I could get it on was by using the vice. But clearly that would not work as the chain needed to be in place. And what about taking the chain off??? I had also ordered 2 spare links, and they were exactly the same. Never has this happened before. With all the new non-O ring links I have fitted the joining plate slides on nicely.

Faulty joining links I concluded. Apparently not so... Here the suppliers email to me:
 "Hi Pete

The chain joining plate must be an interference to the joining pin, this is a must as the joining link is the weakest part of the chain. If this was an easy or slipped the link plate would move coursing the link plate pin bore to elongate, if this was to happen it could cause the chain to break. A good chain manufacture makes the pin to plate fit a tight as possible. With a good made/brand chain you must fit a new joining link with pliers or vice grips. We have installing a lot of CZ chains here and this normal practise. We have sold thousands of CZ chain to NZ/OZ and have never had on problem to date

Have a look at the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw0udWDBem4

Hope this helps, if you are still not happy let us know

Cheers"

But that is a O-ring chain. Not a MX 428 non-O ring chain!

Comments please!

Akzle

19th September 2013, 18:51

from an engineering perspective:
if it doesnt fit, get a bigger hammer.

mossy1200

19th September 2013, 19:05

Tight is good. I had to use vice grips to do the kx chain also CZ non oring.
You want the pins locked into a solid square pattern.

AllanB

19th September 2013, 19:25

Always had to use vice grips to add the retaining clip. Well back when my chains had them .....

Phreak

19th September 2013, 19:31

When I put the joining link in my RK chain, I find it easiest to put a piece of wood in between the chain and the swingarm frame (so I don't scratch my powdercoat) then using a punch and hammer to push the clip onto the link. Seems to work okay for me. :)

Ocean1

19th September 2013, 19:48

It's not difficult to slightly damage the side plate holes and circlip groves if you don't get it nice and square first time. Having said that the higher grade chain links do tend to be a little tight, but not so much that you couldn't use slip-jaw pliers to fit them.

If you think there might be a slight burr on the groove, (and it don't take much) you can dress it with a wee whetstone.

Conquiztador

19th September 2013, 20:09

Tight is good. I had to use vice grips to do the kx chain also CZ non oring.
You want the pins locked into a solid square pattern.
This will make it almost impossible to change sprockets apart from in the workshop...

Always had to use vice grips to add the retaining clip. Well back when my chains had them .....
No problem with the retaining clip. The chain joining plate is what I cant get on the two pins. (This is the plate that goes on before the retaining clip).

When I put the joining link in my RK chain, I find it easiest to put a piece of wood in between the chain and the swingarm frame (so I don't scratch my powdercoat) then using a punch and hammer to push the clip onto the link. Seems to work okay for me. :) As above: no prob with the retaining clip.

It's not difficult to slightly damage the side plate holes and circlip groves if you don't get it nice and square first time. Having said that the higher grade chain links do tend to be a little tight, but not so much that you couldn't use slip-jaw pliers to fit them.

If you think there might be a slight burr on the groove, (and it don't take much) you can dress it with a wee whetstone.
The link that came with the chain and the two I purchased as spare are all the same; can't push the chain joining plate on by hand. Never had this before on a non-O ring chain. When I scrape the plates on the chain I find that they scratch much easier than the RK or DID chains. This indicates that the steel is softer (or has not been hardened as much). Perhaps this is why the CZ chain needs to have a tighter fit as the holes would easily become worn?? Again, I am not talking about the clip that holds it all in place but the side plate with the two holes.

Ocean1

19th September 2013, 20:36

The link that came with the chain and the two I purchased as spare are all the same; can't push the chain joining plate on by hand. Never had this before on a non-O ring chain. When I scrape the plates on the chain I find that they scratch much easier than the RK or DID chains. This indicates that the steel is softer (or has not been hardened as much). Perhaps this is why the CZ chain needs to have a tighter fit as the holes would easily become worn?? Again, I am not talking about the clip that holds it all in place but the side plate with the two holes.

I've noticed Regina links are often quite loose, even the higher grades of Regina chain, I wouldn't usually expect to be able to fit most other brand new links with my fingers. Don't know CZ chain but yes easier to scratch equals softer material which means faster wear. I wonder if one of the lower grade chains, (and every manufacturer makes them) has been marketed as suitable for applications where it's not good enough, wouldn't be the first time I've been sold a "new spec'" chain that's just not up to the job I need it to do.

Now the clips I can manage with the fingers.

Edit: although you're questioning the quality of this particular chain it's pretty amazing that manufacturers can make link plates as accurately as they do, given that they're simply punched out of a sheet.

Conquiztador

19th September 2013, 20:51

I've noticed Regina links are often quite loose, even the higher grades of Regina chain, I wouldn't usually expect to be able to fit most other brand new links with my fingers. Don't know CZ chain but yes easier to scratch equals softer material which means faster wear. I wonder if one of the lower grade chains, (and every manufacturer makes them) has been marketed as suitable for applications where it's not good enough, wouldn't be the first time I've been sold a "new spec'" chain that's just not up to the job I need it to do.

Now the clips I can manage with the fingers.
Yep, was my thoughts also. After some consideration I have decided to buy a RK or DID chain tomorrow and fit as I do not feel comfortable of leaving this CZ chain on for my son to race with on the w/e (Mighty Manawatu Champs). Never had a chain fail and don't really want to risk it with one I don't feel comfy with. As mentioned, when I ordered the chain I did not check what make it was. But perhaps the price should have told me something... 60% of what I normally pay for a RK chain... Actually, come to think of it, first thing I noticed on the CZ chain was that the riveting was different to what I was used to. A "dome" instead of the familiar punch mark in the middle... And when I did cut the chain it was so much easier than I was used to...

Ocean1

19th September 2013, 20:58

Actually, come to think of it, first thing I noticed on the CZ chain was that the riveting was different to what I was used to. A "dome" instead of the familiar punch mark in the middle... And when I did cut the chain it was so much easier than I was used to...

Both pin-end swage styles are fairly common, don't think it's a quality indicator.

What do you use to cut the chain?

Conquiztador

19th September 2013, 21:04

Both pin-end swage styles are fairly common, don't think it's a quality indicator.

What do you use to cut the chain?
A grinder. I grind of two of the rivets, pull of the side plate and done.

Ocean1

19th September 2013, 21:10

A grinder. I grind of two of the rivets, pull of the side plate and done.

Good as any other way, good to clean the chain after though.

I use these: 287656

Or a smaller pin-press thingy for the bike toolbag.

Conquiztador

19th September 2013, 21:45

Good as any other way, good to clean the chain after though.

I use these: 287656

Or a smaller pin-press thingy for the bike toolbag. Yep, have a similar thingy. But find the grinder way quicker, and as all chains are sorted in workshop no prob.